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Log for #openttd on 25th March 2018:
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00:06:04  <rocky1138> yes.
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00:09:07  <GT> Does anybody else have problems with seeing multiplayer servers?
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00:43:43  <LordAro> might help if you stuck around long enough for an answer
00:59:03  <Eddi|zuHause> did TrueBrain manage to break it completely?
01:00:09  <Eddi|zuHause> or is it the usual local networking setup problems
01:01:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i just fell into a time hole, and an hour disappeared
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01:25:41  <glx> seems to be empty for me too
01:28:25  <Fahrradkette> hi everybody. If I wanted to use that awesome feature of copy&pasting junctions ect. what would I have to do? Would I compile openttd from scratch?
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01:29:59  <Fahrradkette> I'm referring to https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=45488 (probably the one shown here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FBvTH1hIAk)
01:30:30  <glx> it's a patch, so yes
01:31:40  <Fahrradkette> thanks
01:33:33  <glx> and it may not apply cleanly as it's quite old
01:35:12  <Fahrradkette> :(
01:36:37  <glx> oh there are more recent version it seems, with precompiled binaries
01:39:00  <glx> but still old
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02:28:55  <Eddi|zuHause> you probably find it in some patchpacks
02:29:07  <Eddi|zuHause> which is probably the easiest route to take
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07:28:06  <Alberth> moin
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09:02:10  <Mistril> hello
09:02:17  <Mistril> is the server list down?
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09:03:07  <nielsm> someone talked about problems with it yesterday, yes
09:03:28  <Mistril> i...then its not my computer that is at fault
09:03:37  <Wolf01> o/
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09:07:45  <Alberth> moin
09:08:40  <LordAro> MSU bus factor too high
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11:25:25  <TrueBrain> MSU not working? Weird, as servers are being listed .. normally that is enough to work :D
11:26:03  <TrueBrain> owh, another MySQL Query error ..
11:32:57  <TrueBrain> now I need to understand why we did something 10 years ago .. lolz
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11:39:30  <TrueBrain> right .. this should resolve it ..
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14:05:33  <supermop> hi
14:07:22  <Pikka> ih
14:07:41  <Pikka> I mean "moin"
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14:08:17  <Wolf01> o/
14:09:03  <supermop> whats going on
14:10:35  <frosch123> moi
14:10:43  <frosch123> some greeting is going on
14:11:07  <Wolf01> Disassembled for the 6th time my lego robotic arm, 2 weeks left to have something working and no idea on how to make it
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14:19:27  <Pikka> go faster stripes?
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14:20:52  <andythenorth_> o/
14:20:56  <Wolf01> o/
14:21:13  <andythenorth_> anyone know which sound effects map to which vehicles in ttd base set?
14:21:17  <andythenorth_> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:List_of_sound_effects
14:21:27  <andythenorth_> probably /src knows :P
14:21:34  <andythenorth_> it's in some .h file somewhere?
14:21:55  <andythenorth_> I just want to set same sounds for truck and bus as original game
14:25:23  <Pikka> I had them all extracted somewhere
14:25:47  <nielsm> http://0x0.st/sBJV.txt
14:25:57  <nielsm> src/tables/engine.h
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14:29:08  <andythenorth_> Pikka are you planning any new zellepin grfs?
14:29:10  <andythenorth_> o_O
14:29:29  <Pikka> no zellepins, only portals
14:30:06  <Pikka> https://i.imgur.com/xNxcLea.png
14:30:21  <andythenorth_> :o
14:30:52  <andythenorth_> such portal
14:30:58  <Pikka> tres
14:31:01  <andythenorth_> ships I have been making http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/unsinkable-sam/push/LATEST/docs/html/ships.html
14:31:13  <andythenorth_> I was hoping someone would apply same to zellepins
14:31:19  <andythenorth_> "fruit and veg zellepin"
14:31:38  <Pikka> such soapy sams
14:32:13  <andythenorth_> totally no cut-paste going on there
14:32:18  <Pikka> zellepins aren't very useful though. I did notice ships don't clip any more, I guess zellepins could be made bigger too?
14:34:34  <Pikka> wait, are we talking about hoverzellpins or ?
14:34:53  <andythenorth_> hovering in the sky zellepins
14:34:59  <andythenorth_> not hovering over water
14:35:03  <Pikka> hmm
14:35:24  <Pikka> the hovering over water ones are covered, right? There's the old ones I 3d'd?
14:36:03  <andythenorth_> yeah
14:36:09  <andythenorth_> more than enough of those
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14:46:12  <Wolf01> I can't understand why andythenorth_ is still drawing ships, we already decided to merge ships and airplanes and only use ekranoplanes ;)
14:47:21  <andythenorth_> they are ekranoplanes
14:47:25  <andythenorth_> can't you tell? o_O
14:48:08  <Wolf01> You should put little wings and jet engines
14:51:09  <andythenorth_> tram sound effects...
14:51:14  <andythenorth_> should I use crossing bells? o_O
14:54:44  <Pikka> toyland sounds, obv
14:54:56  <andythenorth_> SOUND_HEAVY_WIND?
14:58:49  <frosch123> use the tropic forest sound for the livestock ship
14:59:04  <andythenorth_> nice idea
14:59:24  <frosch123> well, or just the farm moo
15:00:24  <andythenorth_> will this be the last ever FS? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6689
15:06:40  <frosch123> 6666 was already passed, i hope we won't reach 7k, any other interesting numbers nearby?
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15:07:00  <andythenorth_> 6767
15:07:08  <andythenorth_> 6699
15:07:18  <supermop> NICE
15:09:19  <LordAro> andythenorth_: an actually interesting issue as well
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15:16:39  <frosch123> should we have an "actually interesting" label for gh issues?
15:20:16  <nielsm> what would get that label?
15:21:16  <LordAro> ha
15:21:23  <LordAro> on github this would be a pr
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15:49:29  <supermop> procratinating drawing a car transporter trailer for like a week
15:58:44  <HeyCitizen> how can I place fishing harbour/port/bulk terminal on river?
15:59:30  <supermop> probably cannot
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16:36:38  <andythenorth> blearch
16:36:43  <andythenorth> Road Hog is a mess
16:36:48  <andythenorth> it has NRT support in it :(
16:37:24  <Eddi|zuHause> that would have been better as a branch
16:37:30  <andythenorth> it was
16:37:47  <andythenorth> but I can't merge reliably with hg
16:37:57  <andythenorth> EBKAC
16:38:17  <andythenorth> also I was told by Ammler to never merge with hg
16:38:29  <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with hg merge?
16:38:43  <andythenorth> I'm not sure, I was told not to
16:38:57  <andythenorth> I do it anyway, but with no idea what I'm doing
16:39:07  <andythenorth> doesn't seem worth learning it if it's a sign of FAIL
16:39:19  <Eddi|zuHause> if it doesn't complain about conflicts, it's probably ok
16:41:09  <andythenorth> I get conflicts but I taught hg how to use my mergetool
16:41:33  <andythenorth> I can't really see anything wrong with it, except user error when I made commits in the wrong branch of Hog
16:41:44  <andythenorth> but distrust was sown early
16:42:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the problem, honestly
16:43:04  <andythenorth> well there are (3)
16:43:12  <andythenorth> commits to wrong branch (user error)
16:43:30  <andythenorth> merge B>A instead of A>B (user error)
16:43:42  <andythenorth> result: NRT code in 'default' branch of Hog
16:43:57  <andythenorth> which works, but leaves a mess and is unused / unusable
16:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can always go back to a "clean" revision and reapply all further commits that should be kept clean, and call that the new "default" branch
16:45:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the "spoilt" commits then just sit there as a dead branch
16:45:15  <andythenorth> nah the bird has flown
16:45:33  <andythenorth> very large amount of refactoring has happened mixed in with NRT commits
16:45:38  <Eddi|zuHause> or just make a "cleanup" commit
16:45:54  <andythenorth> hmm
16:46:06  <andythenorth> the issue is really trying to design against 2 APIs
16:46:22  <andythenorth> how Hog would be if NRT, and how Hog needs to be to load in trunk
16:46:45  <andythenorth> hmm moving on
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16:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i would suggest keeping the "design" for NRT (with potentially redundant vehicles in the trunk version), just keep the specific NRT code out
16:49:35  <Eddi|zuHause> under the assumption that NRT will actually end up in the game in the forseeable future
16:49:47  <andythenorth> or that I perpetually play the fork
16:50:20  <andythenorth> ok so maybe I just don't do some specific refactoring today, as it hinges on NRT in/out
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17:17:33  <andythenorth> apparently Hog breaks [some] AIs because they can't use articulated RVs
17:18:27  <andythenorth> 80 out of 93 vehicles are articulated
17:18:42  <andythenorth> but all 93 set the articulated callback flag
17:18:48  <andythenorth> do I care about fixing that?
17:18:57  <peter1138> hi
17:22:21  <andythenorth> do I have to fix the AI?
17:22:25  <andythenorth> seems broken to me
17:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that does seem to be your job to fix
17:23:33  <andythenorth> samu reported it :P
17:23:36  <Eddi|zuHause> if you provide wrong documentation, how do you expect people to use it the right way?
17:23:41  <andythenorth> and thought it was my job
17:23:55  <andythenorth> it's probably a trivial fix
17:24:32  <andythenorth> how do I && in python conditional?
17:24:52  <nielsm> "and"
17:25:10  <nielsm> if a = 5 and b > 20:
17:25:12  <andythenorth> ta
17:25:33  <andythenorth> that doesn't assign a to (5 and b)? :o
17:26:09  <nielsm> oh yeah python does use == for equals
17:26:20  <nielsm> but = is not an operator iirc, but a statement
17:26:24  <nielsm> so it's just a syntax error
17:26:30  <andythenorth> ha ok :)
17:26:34  <andythenorth> seems to work anyway
17:27:17  <andythenorth> thanks, bbl
17:28:56  <nielsm> hmm, have anyone made a "low bridges" patch to make less-height bridges specifically for crossing rivers, but don't allow other things to pass below?
17:29:01  <nielsm> (or similar)
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17:29:25  <nielsm> advantage would be less power needed to go over and lower cost
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17:35:43  <frosch123> usually people want to make rivers and ships more useable, not less :p
17:39:44  <supermop> hmm should i make car carrier trailer 8/8? all my other trailers are 7/8
17:40:28  <supermop> and cars are 3/8 so the extra 1/8 does not get me any extra cars
17:49:01  <supermop> though i should draw tilted angles for the cars to cram more in... https://www.quinnscartransport.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/6.jpg
17:49:52  <nielsm> sure looks like some of those are being straight up crushed
17:50:37  <supermop> http://www.russellstransport.co.uk/resources/images/gallery/multiple-2.jpg i assume FIRS vehicles cargo is all paganis
17:51:08  <glx> ah multiplayer list seems repaired, I guess it was an ipv6 problem
17:51:51  <nielsm> nope: <TrueBrain> owh, another MySQL Query error ..
17:52:15  <glx> oh
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18:24:30  <peter1138> MySQL is an error
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18:40:44  <TrueBrain> frosch123: seems it needs more work than I expected to get GH glued to Bamboo ... mostly it seems we need to make our own API to handle the GH callbacks to work properly
18:40:57  <TrueBrain> not the biggest chunk of work, but it takes a bit of time
18:41:18  <TrueBrain> for now we can make Bamboo poll GH after push (so PRs are review-only)
18:41:33  <TrueBrain> that should not make the biggest difference with subversion
18:42:58  <frosch123> can we have one bamboo job which we manually point at random repositories/branches for single compilations?
18:43:20  <TrueBrain> plans are a bit tight to their repository
18:43:27  <TrueBrain> not sure how flexible Bamboo is going to be in that
18:43:28  <TrueBrain> why?
18:43:59  <frosch123> well, so we can check compilation of foreign branches before pulling
18:44:08  <frosch123> like win compilation and stuff
18:44:15  <TrueBrain> I think it will take me 2 weekends or so to get that automated
18:44:23  <frosch123> ok :)
18:44:24  <TrueBrain> think it takes more effort to setup something like that :D
18:44:45  <TrueBrain> but the question becomes .. do you want to wait with migration to GH for that?
18:44:52  <TrueBrain> we can next weekend move all issues and source
18:45:03  <TrueBrain> Bamboo still checks after accepting PRs, like it does with Subversion
18:45:14  <frosch123> i will be little active next week and next weekend
18:45:31  <TrueBrain> so better to delay another weekend then :)
18:45:47  <TrueBrain> so the weekend of the 8th?
18:46:15  <frosch123> 7/8th should be fine
18:46:22  <TrueBrain> I am not going to overly prepare the migration, as I dont have that much time; it will be a bit touch&go .. but it should be fine
18:46:30  <TrueBrain> issue import works, code import works
18:46:39  <TrueBrain> just no clue yet how to make FlySpray read-only in a decent way etc
18:46:46  <TrueBrain> (possibly I just unlink it from the LDAP :P)
18:47:32  <TrueBrain> I like the latest issue import in RC2 a lot .. looks so much better with quoting
18:47:38  <TrueBrain> issue links work too
18:47:55  <TrueBrain> considered fixing revision links .. but no :D
18:53:38  <frosch123> yay, found a task to close
19:01:03  <peter1138> Hmm
19:02:17  <frosch123> if i write a commit hook in python, can windows people use that?
19:03:55  <nielsm> probably yes, if they install python
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19:45:06  <LANJesus> frosch123: look at what git for windows comes with
19:45:14  <LANJesus> and other git distros for windows
19:46:13  <frosch123> so, what does it come with?
19:46:31  <frosch123> i have not touched windows for 10 years, i have no idea why people use it for development at all
19:48:24  <glx> it comes with it's own msys install
19:48:33  <supermop> andythenorth: are you going to draw car transporters for hog?
19:48:59  <andythenorth> not planning to
19:49:11  <supermop> im procrastinating
19:49:21  <glx> and perl
19:49:34  <andythenorth> supermop: I'm considering playing OpenTTD
19:49:35  <supermop> but delivering to to the dealer in crates is looking a bit silly
19:49:46  <andythenorth> flatbed truck, with trucks
19:49:55  <supermop> everytime i play something bugs me to get added
19:50:20  <supermop> maybe in my game they are all snowmobiles and jetskis
19:50:31  <glx> but I usually just use github app
19:50:48  <andythenorth> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/3d/d4/7e/3dd47e16e357385da62bff1ae92037f9.jpg
19:51:22  <supermop> my truck cabs are too tall to go on a flatbed
19:51:28  <supermop> https://www.quinnscartransport.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/6.jpg
19:51:56  <supermop> dreading drawing nose up and nose down angles for cars
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19:54:43  <supermop> this is how we deliver new trucks here:
19:54:50  <supermop> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/1DPwptq_y4A/maxresdefault.jpg
19:55:35  <andythenorth> easy then :)
19:55:40  <andythenorth> just pile some sprites together
19:55:58  <supermop> pixels dont take to a 15 degree rotation so easy
19:56:13  <supermop> my have to model, render, then trace
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19:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause> that windshield does not look safe
19:56:52  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: thats bothering me too
20:08:22  <supermop> so a 9/8 trailer will glitch, but i wonder if i can make a 1+8 articulated, where the 1 has its angle matched to the following 8 by using the curv_info_cur_next
20:08:46  <Eddi|zuHause> *cough*CETS*cough*
20:08:58  <supermop> exactly
20:09:18  <supermop> might be overkill just to fit 3 cars per level though
20:10:04  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES :)
20:10:19  <supermop> FEAT_BADFEAT
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20:11:28  <supermop> i was going to do that already for the part of the transported that overhangs the cab, but then i notices that this part is attached to the cab itself, not the trailer irl
20:11:32  <Pikka> fab features
20:11:41  <supermop> FEAT_FAB
20:15:20  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: do you point to your special angles by just switching to a different sprite group based on curve info?
20:15:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
20:16:48  <Eddi|zuHause> well, not the curve_info variable but the more flexible var62
20:17:06  <supermop> i guess the template will need to be a bit odd to to match the following part
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20:18:55  <Eddi|zuHause> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pystey9tu <-- this is the essential core logic of CETS
20:19:18  <Eddi|zuHause> where "SLICE" is +1, 0 or -1, depending on which part is active
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20:21:44  <supermop> oh yeah, will need to account for relative height too
20:22:00  <Eddi|zuHause> from the bottom up it first checks whether we're in the GUI or on the normal map, then it checks the curve, and then it checks the height
20:23:05  <Eddi|zuHause> if anything is odd, it falls back to drawing the full sprite on the center part, and invisible sprites on the other parts
20:23:49  <Eddi|zuHause> if everything is straight, it draws the vehicle in 3 separate parts ("slices") to avoid clipping
20:23:59  <andythenorth> should I BAD FEATURES? o_O
20:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and if the curve conditions are met, it draws the angled sprites
20:24:22  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there are no BAD FEATURES, only unmaintainable implementations
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20:25:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the angled sprites are also drawn as one single sprite on the center vehicle, the others invisible
20:25:12  <andythenorth> no no, some features are BAD
20:25:15  <andythenorth> running sounds :P
20:25:19  <andythenorth> Head-End Power
20:25:34  <andythenorth> auto-upgrading stats without changing ID :P
20:25:41  <supermop> i do that one
20:26:09  <Pikka> auto-downgrading stats without changing ID? ;)
20:26:16  <supermop> rust
20:26:38  <andythenorth> Pikka: worth trying I think
20:27:04  <andythenorth> I liked supermop's idea for Horse
20:27:05  <supermop> turn off breakdowns but have trucks loose hp as they get old
20:27:16  <andythenorth> if only mail cars in train, all mail cars are red
20:27:57  <supermop> if some mail and some pax, they are br blue
20:28:28  <supermop> if mixed freight, they are whatever
20:28:31  <Pikka> sounds dangerously "realistic"
20:28:39  <supermop> only use i can think of for that property
20:28:56  <andythenorth> it's quite silly
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20:29:16  <andythenorth> might be better to 2CC them if only mail
20:29:30  <supermop> andythenorth: thats basically what i meant
20:29:45  <andythenorth> hmm, in colour menu, mail cars are 'passenger' :P
20:29:45  <supermop> not literally have to be red
20:29:51  <andythenorth> colour menu is stupid :)
20:30:01  <supermop> indeed it is
20:30:04  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you distinguish "everything is mail" with front and other engines in the chain?
20:30:24  <andythenorth> there's some prop for it
20:30:43  <andythenorth> var /s
20:30:55  <Eddi|zuHause> and what's with mail wagons refitted to valuables?
20:31:02  <Eddi|zuHause> or other "express" cargos?
20:31:04  <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Consist_cargo_.2842.29
20:31:22  <andythenorth> most common cargo type *isn't* pax?
20:31:34  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: most_common_refit
20:31:47  <andythenorth> or rather, special case for common refit *is* pax
20:31:58  <andythenorth> it's daft but eh
20:32:08  <supermop> most_common_refit is for class, not cargo
20:32:23  <andythenorth> still works
20:32:34  <supermop> if most common is CC_PASSENGERS, make mail same colors as passengers
20:32:42  <andythenorth> ye
20:32:43  <supermop> else, some other color
20:33:14  <supermop> i find it backwards that you set wagon color based on locomotive type
20:33:28  <supermop> instead of locomotive color based on wagon type
20:33:43  <supermop> which seems like the more natural case
20:33:51  <andythenorth> colour settings are ass backwards anyway
20:34:31  <supermop> ofc a newgrf can do it for you, but when playing the vanilla game, id rather have a black kirby paul and grey sh30 for freight
20:34:44  <supermop> and 1cc for passengers
20:34:48  <andythenorth> supermop: procrastination http://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/167-parcels-traffic-in-br-days
20:35:01  <supermop> or whatever else i choose in color menu
20:35:16  <supermop> andythenorth: i think you sent me that before
20:35:47  <supermop> ended up reading essentially the whole site
20:35:51  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of things in this game are backwards
20:38:14  <Pikka> mostly tank engines
20:41:23  <andythenorth> supermop: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/11100-mk2-bg-full-brake/
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20:47:15  <andythenorth> also bed
20:47:17  <andythenorth> bye
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20:48:29  <supermop> hmm with 5 or 6 cars on the trailer, recoloring might have to get redundant
20:49:33  <supermop> layer 1 being lower deck, l2 being lower cars, 3 being upper deck, and 4 being upper cars
20:50:00  <supermop> 3 cars per sprite: 1cc, 2cc, ???
20:50:14  <supermop> 3rd can be purple i guess
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21:06:35  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have more than 2 recolours, if you generate the appropriate recolour maps
21:07:21  <supermop> past the 3rd (purple) i think i might run low of good bits of the pallet to use
21:08:02  <supermop> not a big deal for the carrier, as the trailer itself wont use many colors
21:08:33  <Eddi|zuHause> you can use the magic pink or color cycle areas, as long as you recolour them to proper colours in all cases
21:08:35  <Pikka> TBH though you could make every car carrier look identical and no-one would really mind. I don't think the ones in NARS did anything fancy and they looked fine.
21:09:31  <Eddi|zuHause> it just gets tricky to actually draw with these
21:09:49  <supermop> Pikka: this grf is really for my own insane navel gazing than any real audience at this point
21:10:12  <Pikka> fo sho
21:10:22  <supermop> last week i worked out how to make slag glow less as is cools, im sure no one else is asking for that
21:11:10  <supermop> seeing as slag is only in one firs economy, and even andy doesn't have sprites for it in any of his vehicle sets
21:11:39  <Pikka> mmm, slag
21:12:13  <supermop> now i need to draw slag ladles that tip to unload
21:15:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the problem with that will be that you can't distingusih loading from unloading
21:17:49  <supermop> you can
21:20:27  <supermop> vehicle_is_unloading
21:20:53  <supermop> "Value is 1 if the vehicle is unloading at a station and has not yet started loading new cargo. "
21:22:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that must be new
21:22:08  <Eddi|zuHause> well "new"
21:23:46  <supermop> i was surprised when i first saw it
21:25:58  <Eddi|zuHause> well we did come accross this problem once or twice
21:26:13  <Eddi|zuHause> must have been that one time we decided to implement a solution
21:43:29  <supermop> well now i know how to make my 9/8 car carrier work and give all the cars random colors, but I still don't feel like drawing it
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21:56:07  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds awfully like CETS
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22:24:17  <Wolf01> 'night
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