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Log for #openttd on 18th April 2018:
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00:50:30  <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> I still consider a way to upload it from the client directly <-- i think one of the downsides is that you won't have any means of contacting for further questions
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02:46:03  <supermop> Pikka: i expect ypu to buy several xxxxs per month now with my pledge
02:46:29  <Pikka> ewww :P
02:46:36  <Pikka> can I buy something nicer? ;)
02:47:25  <supermop> haha i should have specified in the pledge "for 4x only, not for makeing sprites"
02:47:44  <Pikka> it's much appreciated :)
02:48:30  <supermop> how's architecture school? i would have warned you off it
02:49:00  <supermop> i trust you'll make more of it that i have
02:50:15  <Pikka> we're both making TTD sprites, what more could there be? :)
02:51:43  <supermop> i started working as an architect again this year
02:52:04  <Pikka> good times?
02:52:12  <supermop> then quit 2 weeks ago to work for a modular construction company
02:52:32  <Pikka> oh :)
02:52:41  <supermop> still have not come to a final reckoning of how i feel about that
02:52:58  <supermop> i regret it, but also modular stuff is sort of my whole deal
02:55:33  <Pikka> if it's leading in a direction you want to go in, I guess you have to take the leap some times...
02:58:12  <supermop> well we'll see
03:00:58  <supermop> the 47 looks cute
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03:04:28  <Pikka> :)
03:05:43  <Pikka> I was a bit worried about the length... I drew the 20 first, but drew it as 8/8, so I guess all the diesels and electrics are going to be the same size.
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03:15:15  <supermop> hmm 20 does look a bit big
03:20:36  <Pikka> hmm
03:20:55  <Pikka> it doesn't look too bad shortened to 7/8, maybe I'll do that
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03:38:26  <supermop> night for now
03:41:14  <Pikka> gnight
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06:11:09  <andythenorth> not sure
06:11:15  <peter1138> Morning.
06:17:49  <andythenorth> pikka o/
06:17:56  <Pikka> o/
06:21:14  <andythenorth> need some 1930 coaches :P
06:21:24  <andythenorth> that don't look like 1960 coaches
06:21:36  <andythenorth> 1860 is easy, clerestory roof
06:21:47  <andythenorth> 1900 is ok, just do narrow windows
06:22:10  <Pikka> LMS period 2? squarish, medium sized windows?
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06:24:26  <Pikka> https://i.imgur.com/wm5ayuf.png gen 1 toplights
06:27:18  <peter1138> Puffy smoke!
06:27:28  <Pikka> zbase smoke :P
06:27:35  <peter1138> Aww...
06:27:49  <peter1138> I was gonna say, can smoke have variations :p
06:28:01  <peter1138> Also, I don't like zbase much :(
06:28:07  <peter1138> Those chunky signals, woah.
06:28:18  <peter1138> It's an impressive body of work mind you./
06:28:41  <peter1138> 4x zoom original graphics, some kind of magic :D
06:29:30  <andythenorth> hmm toplights
06:29:36  <andythenorth> maybe I need 2x zoom? :P
06:29:38  <Pikka> I was gonna say, can smoke have variations :p <- custom fx sprites would be kind of handy, rather than being limited to the default smoke/smoke/sparks ;)
06:29:55  <andythenorth> that's either supported, or was on frosch's to-do list
06:30:13  <peter1138> I suspect it's not supported. If it was, Pikka would know.
06:30:48  <andythenorth> that's like assuming I know the newgrf spec :P
06:30:53  <peter1138> :D
06:31:18  <peter1138> Is smoke still a vehicle? heh
06:31:24  <peter1138> Or is that just shadows.
06:31:25  <andythenorth> I think so
06:31:38  <andythenorth> I think it got dropped because controlling the effect vehicle would be faff
06:31:50  <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/New_Smoke
06:32:10  <peter1138> Hmm
06:32:17  <peter1138> CBID_VEHICLE_SPAWN_VISUAL_EFFECT
06:32:19  <andythenorth> the thing with frosch is
06:32:22  <andythenorth> writes a spec :)
06:37:08  <peter1138> And lets someone else implement it.
06:38:06  <andythenorth> well :)
06:38:35  <andythenorth> frosch has done a lot of newgrf ponies for me ;)
06:42:12  <Eddi|zuHause> you might need a new nfo "feature" to override the effect vehicles?
06:53:06  <andythenorth> Pikka: o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8981/horse_coronation_stripey.png
06:55:46  <V453000> Pikka: finally loaded the trains in game, they look incredibly good. :)
06:55:59  <Pikka> :D
06:56:01  <V453000> ooh stripey
06:56:26  <V453000> You're seriously making me consider returning to hand drawing the sprites ._.
06:56:46  <V453000> Might end up with 3D with heavy postproduction
06:57:40  <andythenorth> I seriously am tempted to automate Pikka's pipeline :P
06:57:50  <Pikka> how painful
06:58:01  <andythenorth> you could have sedation
06:59:44  <andythenorth> I change 1 coach roof pixel, 122 sprites get updated :)
06:59:52  <andythenorth> same for chassis
07:00:35  * V453000 says shit about uniqueness
07:00:45  <andythenorth> yeah, better to have 122 good sprites :P
07:00:57  <andythenorth> instead of 22 unique and 100 with mistakes
07:01:15  <andythenorth> Horse pax and mail are like this https://nigelburkin.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/class-350-4-20.jpg
07:02:20  <V453000> the amount of detail in the x2 sprites is just outrageous
07:04:22  <andythenorth> V453000: swap? o_O
07:04:50  <peter1138> What is V453000's current project?
07:05:10  <V453000> idk andy what to do :D
07:05:17  <V453000> peter1138: a new train set
07:05:38  <peter1138> Any teaser images? :p
07:05:53  <andythenorth> I am definitely *not* going to do 2x
07:05:58  <peter1138> Awww
07:06:00  <andythenorth> but not because I don't like the look
07:07:36  <V453000> not much, it's very bare and the visual style is completely undecided https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8982/prototype.png
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07:08:08  <V453000> I'm just building a functional prototype so far
07:08:19  <V453000> because ofc I am going to abuse the hell out of specs
07:08:53  <V453000> this would be the biggest steamer in scale, 24/8 :)
07:09:05  <peter1138> nice :P
07:09:14  <peter1138> Looks like the wheels all have tyres though, hehe
07:09:26  <V453000> They do :)
07:09:49  <V453000> the set is called PART Assembled Road Trains
07:10:10  <V453000> the core idea is that you have 1 train class of 11 engines that you unlock over time, and with it wagons
07:10:28  <peter1138> Hee
07:10:31  <andythenorth> https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4yN5qQbESqoC&pg=PT99&lpg=PT99&dq=iain+banks+steam+train+racing&source=bl&ots=LxnspMA5M8&sig=yLSuoOz2NAqRksxeJSCupildrII&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj5mOChosPaAhVrDMAKHTLPDBwQ6AEINTAF#v=onepage&q=iain%20banks%20steam%20train%20racing&f=false
07:10:38  <V453000> ther are 6 types of wagons, every one is universal for any cargoes, but the trick is that each of the wagons changes the way how the train performs
07:10:48  <V453000> aka, power wagons, max speed wagons, ...
07:11:16  <V453000> there are also 5 railtype roads which change the performance of trains on it
07:12:17  <V453000> idea is that purchase menu is not cluttered so it's fairly beginner friendly (there will probably be a basic part which adds a bit of each), but the possibilities are almost endless
07:12:50  <V453000> the trick of the performance boosting parts is that the closer the wagon is to the engine, the more efficiency it has, so you need to prioritize what is where
07:12:55  <_dp_> peter1138, you can use bootstrap with sass and move presentation details there
07:13:26  <andythenorth> ugh
07:13:36  <andythenorth> mega-classes, instead of composition? o_O
07:14:12  <V453000> technically, I'm using the layered vehicle drawing so on the engine it shows some "levels" of strength in 3 areas - engine, cabin and wheel
07:14:39  <V453000> It's literally 1 engine class andy, the only way how to get differently performing vehicles is through wagon compositions
07:15:01  <V453000> since the engine changes visually based on the wagon types behind it, it shouldn't be too visually boring
07:15:18  <V453000> plus of course wagons get variations and unique graphics for every cargo etc
07:15:20  * Pikka bbl :)
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07:15:23  <_dp_> andythenorth, not necessarily, you can do smth like BEM
07:15:35  <_dp_> andythenorth, basically, semantic classes instead of presentation ones
07:15:57  <V453000> oh :)
07:17:06  <andythenorth> meh :)
07:17:29  <andythenorth> so much time wasted by people who don't understand that html is fundamentally presentational
07:18:05  <andythenorth> it's a markup language, not a data store
07:18:44  <andythenorth> although previous to html 4 it was much too presentational, all very wrong
07:23:01  <andythenorth> also people who think inline styles are somehow wrong :(
07:25:22  <andythenorth> oops bbl
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08:15:04  <andythenorth> maybe I should draw sprites like this https://www.vectis.co.uk/marx-no-331-coronation-scot-electric-train_676080
08:16:57  <V453000> damn
08:19:32  <peter1138> Yes.
08:19:58  <andythenorth> V453000: new style? o_O
08:20:53  <V453000> no but right now I'm trying to figure the fuck out, what do I do with the wheel
08:21:04  <V453000> do I keep t he idea of road types and tires, and if, how
08:21:34  <V453000> because of the visual puzzle, they need to fit into each other so it's not that easy :)
08:22:13  <andythenorth> V453000: I assume your inspiration is this? :P https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qsieu7cKna0/hqdefault.jpg
08:22:18  <andythenorth> that image gets around a lot
08:23:14  <V453000> I didn't really see inspiration, but yeah this is what it could look like
08:24:23  <andythenorth> game needs more of this sort of thing https://i.pinimg.com/originals/28/c3/6d/28c36df5fa8f53962c31336d80af5c4e.jpg
08:24:30  <andythenorth> HEQS Renewal!
08:24:51  <V453000> :0
08:25:12  <V453000> The thing is, trains have that kind of thing that's just inherently cool
08:25:36  <V453000> which is why I'm trying to have the top half look like a train, just the wheel are more car like
08:25:45  <V453000> also top level tractive effort = tank treads ofs
08:25:46  <V453000> ofc
08:27:12  <V453000> but then when you show me a picture like that, uhhh
08:27:18  <V453000> I don't know what I want
08:29:13  <andythenorth> I liked BRIX style :P
08:29:20  <andythenorth> I thought the micro-machines were winningest
08:29:32  <andythenorth> how come you get to change style every 12 months?
08:29:50  <andythenorth> but Eddi|zuHause always says I never stick to my decisions or finish anything :P
08:32:01  <V453000> I don't know
08:32:11  <V453000> I think it's mainly because I don't spend much time actually making things
08:32:22  <V453000> and the plan for this train set has been in my head for years now
08:33:09  * andythenorth lost in world of tiny pixels
08:33:24  <andythenorth> I need 12 liveries for 6 generations of pax coach
08:33:50  <andythenorth> and I have 6 pixels height body to paint on
08:34:07  <V453000> I'm already considering adding a "rails instead of roads" parameter
08:34:21  <V453000> but I really don't know how would the wheel look there
08:34:26  <V453000> :D
08:34:57  <andythenorth> what was the goal again? o_O
08:35:02  <V453000> ultra chibbi wagons were cool, yes
08:35:11  <V453000> the idea is that wagons give different bonuses
08:35:26  <V453000> and if trains has over 128 TE modifier, then it uses a different sprite for wheel
08:35:37  <V453000> moar TE, better wheel, most TE, tank treads
08:36:04  <V453000> combined with 5 road types, where the train actually gets faster on better roads
08:36:26  <V453000> I guess having track types where trains get faster on better rails is ok too?
08:36:31  <andythenorth> yes
08:37:04  <V453000> Does having more wheel do any effect on TE logically IRL Realism Engineering?
08:37:51  <andythenorth> it's not 100% known
08:38:01  <V453000> what do you mean :D
08:38:04  <andythenorth> or rather, engineers disagree
08:38:07  <V453000> :0
08:38:17  <andythenorth> traditionally the number of wheels has been disregarded in TE calculations
08:38:20  <andythenorth> just the weight is ued
08:38:22  <V453000> I'd expect philosophers to disagree but engineers :D
08:38:22  <andythenorth> used *
08:38:42  <andythenorth> but when General Motors tested early diesel locomotives in the 1940s
08:38:52  <andythenorth> in tests, more wheels => more actual TE delivered
08:39:04  <andythenorth> many rail engineers still dispute this
08:39:08  <andythenorth> because...people
08:39:19  <V453000> hm
08:39:26  <andythenorth> it's a game, fake the physics
08:39:41  <V453000> well I still kind of like the idea of mud road -> stone road -> asphalt road -> concrete road -> megamodern concrete road
08:39:45  <andythenorth> in my super realistic train set, the TE is faked to get gameplay results
08:40:00  <V453000> with tracks it's kind of track A -> track B -> track C -> track D -> track E
08:40:12  <andythenorth> http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/1883/3269/1600/365019/271106tomy%20004z.jpg
08:40:32  <V453000> well I mean adding wagons to an engine and increasing it's TE that way isn't exactly realistic I'm afraid :P
08:42:21  <V453000> In case of rails what I was considering was that the wheel part of the train would change based on track type, too ... that way I could have trains automatically switching between tire/rail/monorail/maglev equipment :D
08:42:27  <andythenorth> shameful
08:42:35  <V453000> which kind of is 4 times more graphics for wheel but you know...
08:42:37  <V453000> profit
08:43:09  <V453000> Basically trying to make track types something more interesting than a track->track->track progression
08:43:19  <V453000> the first tracks would be more brown and the final tracks more gray, but eh
08:43:42  <andythenorth> do some where the track is rack + gear
08:43:52  <V453000> And there's always the floating equipment idea for wet tracks :P
08:44:21  <V453000> that was actually the original idea of my previous train set attempt, I called it GEAR
08:44:34  <V453000> the part concept was the same but the vehicle would look like a giant cog wheel on racks
08:44:45  <V453000> didn't work, the animation callback isn't sensitive enough
08:45:34  <andythenorth> hmm
08:45:40  <andythenorth> it was even realism though
08:45:45  <andythenorth> http://gerald-massey.org.uk/Railway/images/Development/Blenkinsop_toothed_loco_2.png
08:46:00  <V453000> :)
08:46:20  <andythenorth> or http://www.mitchell-railgear.com/products/Mini119/PC35-6.jpg
08:46:31  <V453000> Maybe the idea with wildly different track type progression isn't that bad
08:46:45  <V453000> is it ridiculous? yes
08:46:47  <V453000> is it bad? idk
08:47:25  <andythenorth> progression is weird anyway
08:47:37  <andythenorth> probably makes sense in a big coop game or so
08:47:48  <andythenorth> I use track types to do different transport options
08:48:00  <andythenorth> mostly incompatible always
08:48:17  <V453000> well the thing is that if the track type just gives some stat adjustments to the trains, you can basically keep using one type somewhere, and a different one elsewhere
08:48:46  <V453000> fun part is that the trains are compatible and automatically re-gear their wheel when going from one to another
08:49:30  <V453000> the ultra chibi style might work with it, too
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08:50:24  <andythenorth> V453000: when did you last play mario kart? o_O
08:50:37  <V453000> never actually
08:50:56  <andythenorth> ok so depending on version
08:51:00  <andythenorth> track affects kart a lot
08:51:12  <V453000> right
08:51:19  <andythenorth> e.g. red and green arrows that slow you down / speed you up
08:51:25  <andythenorth> facing you or facing away
08:51:34  <andythenorth> water that has a flow, with or against you
08:51:51  <andythenorth> levitation tracks where you float and handling changes
08:52:05  <andythenorth> shame tracks don't have one way road equivalent :P
08:53:25  <andythenorth> dunno
08:55:06  <V453000> I could also just not show TE visually :D
08:55:24  <V453000> but but
08:56:20  <andythenorth> you're maybe more interested in gameplay mechanics than me :D
08:56:36  <V453000> oh and if I add maglev tracks then those give zero fucks about TE
08:56:36  <V453000> :D
08:56:37  <V453000> XD
08:56:38  <V453000> FUCK
08:56:40  <andythenorth> my view: pick train track, build train, PBS, 5 tiles, go
08:57:49  <V453000> actually nevermind, train behaves based on it's home track type
08:57:54  <V453000> not the one traveled on
08:58:05  <V453000> so TE still works for a RAIL train even on MGLV track
09:03:20  <V453000> yeah the ultra chibi trains have some character :)
09:03:25  <V453000> I'll try to return there
09:05:04  <V453000> ok andythenorth you win
09:08:37  <andythenorth> what's mny prize?
09:08:50  <peter1138> NRT
09:09:28  <andythenorth> everyone's a winner
09:09:47  <andythenorth> V453000: seriously, combining *engines* for effects is good
09:10:02  <peter1138> Hm
09:10:15  <andythenorth> make all same length unit, and have 'speed booster' unit, 'super TE unit'
09:10:16  <andythenorth> etc
09:10:26  <andythenorth> and combinatorial graphics wtf madness
09:10:46  <andythenorth> it's even total realism
09:11:43  * andythenorth time for synthwave and exercise bike
09:16:06  <peter1138> Gosh
09:16:14  <peter1138> Sounds energetic
09:18:19  <andythenorth> 15km/h?
09:18:22  <andythenorth> not really :(
09:19:12  <peter1138> Urgh, which stash contains this code I partially wrote :S
09:19:36  <peter1138> I really need to get into the habit of making temporary branches
09:19:46  <peter1138> "git stash" doesn't give you much to go on :p
09:20:20  <andythenorth> branch ftw :)
09:20:32  <andythenorth> then eventuall... -d
09:20:44  <andythenorth> or the branches count gets daft
09:21:29  <peter1138> Yeah, but at least with a branch you're forced to name it, and you can pick just bits of your WIP stuff to commit, rather than having a massive lump of an unnamed stash.
09:22:20  <andythenorth> yair
09:22:43  <andythenorth> I often just name the branch for the ticket number
09:22:52  <peter1138> Yeah, that is enough
09:23:25  <peter1138> My stuff doesn't have tickets though, cos it's mostly shit I think needs fixing. Maybe I should make my own tickets.
09:23:59  <andythenorth> such github
09:27:31  <peter1138> such gitea
09:33:36  <peter1138> Shame it doesn't integrate much with Jenkins.
09:35:19  <peter1138> It does show the build status in a commit, but not within a pull request
09:37:06  <peter1138> Also, go for 20mph.
09:38:15  <V453000> yeah andy I believe the concept is really sound, just need to put it together somehow
09:38:30  <V453000> thinking about it for years without being productive leads to more confusion than solid planning apparentl
09:38:33  <peter1138> And request new features!
09:38:45  <peter1138> Hmm
09:39:00  <peter1138> There's no way to affect vehicle progression other than time, is there?
09:39:08  <peter1138> Maybe a gamescript could do it, but.
09:40:11  <peter1138> When your credit card bill was £2000... :S
09:41:48  <peter1138> Mind you I did buy that bike.
09:42:25  <V453000> :D
09:42:28  <V453000> actually it's nice outside
09:42:31  <V453000> maybe I should go bike
09:46:18  <andythenorth> peter1138: I can't sustain 20mph on the exercise bike, resistance is weird
09:46:20  <andythenorth> and I'm unfit :P
09:46:23  <andythenorth> I can get 18mph
09:46:46  <andythenorth> I used to cycle at 23mph on flat, but that was 20 years ago
09:46:50  <peter1138> Heh
09:47:11  <peter1138> I only once did a ride averaging 20mph
09:47:48  <peter1138> normally 15-17 depending on the group
09:47:50  <andythenorth> need a flat route, cycleway, no stops, no dog walkers, no headwind
09:47:55  <peter1138> or 10 on the mtb :D
09:48:39  <peter1138> cycleways suck for performance
09:48:51  <peter1138> they are designed for pootling along at 10mph
09:49:20  <V453000> I'm happy if I get from work to home, and that's just about 12km and 100m total uphil
09:49:43  <V453000> need to exercise more :D
09:50:03  <andythenorth> I drive everywhere now :P
09:50:06  <andythenorth> I live at the top of a hill
09:50:10  <andythenorth> massive disincentive
09:50:53  <andythenorth> also did I miss the bit above where we added a tech tree?
09:51:06  <andythenorth> vehicles get a label for a tech group
09:51:07  <peter1138> Silly fitbit round errors. Says my weight is xx.4 in one place and xx.3 elsewhere
09:51:22  <andythenorth> maybe you had a wee in between
09:51:36  <peter1138> From the same reading! :p
10:34:19  <Sacro> peter1138: gravitational differences
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11:31:56  <peter1138> Ok I ate, now I'm well above the .4 :p
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12:13:53  <andythenorth> steam horse http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8983/steam_horse.png
12:15:02  * _dp_ expected to see smth like https://orig00.deviantart.net/9926/f/2008/098/9/8/986bf885538b4feb.jpg
12:16:20  <andythenorth> fair
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12:39:22  <Pikka> o/
12:39:36  <Pikka> we didn't win the pub trivia, unfortunately
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12:41:22  <andythenorth> oops
12:43:16  <andythenorth> should I put a photo of my dinner on twitter? o_O
12:43:33  <Pikka> nobody should do that
12:43:41  <Pikka> unless it's an extraordinary dinner
12:44:30  <andythenorth> I've never done it before
12:44:38  <andythenorth> also no more Twitter probs
12:44:40  <andythenorth> social media is over
12:44:58  <Pikka> irc will rise again!
12:45:16  <andythenorth> irc never pretended to be social :)
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13:01:20  <stefino> Hi. How many sprites can I have in industry grf? I read something that each industry tile has an ID and this ID can be 0-255. So there is only 256 sprites what can I use? Thx
13:01:47  <andythenorth> nope
13:02:05  <andythenorth> you can switch sprites in the action 2 chain for the tile graphics
13:02:21  <andythenorth> you only need 1 tile per indsutry industry usually
13:02:32  <andythenorth> oops
13:02:37  <andythenorth> - indsutry
13:03:00  <andythenorth> there is a cb to check the tile's position in the industry layout
13:03:20  <andythenorth> not cb, var
13:03:33  <andythenorth> var 43 https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Industry_Tiles#Relative_position_.2843.29
13:03:34  <stefino> Oh...so this mean kind of industry. And each industry can has XY tiles (graphics)
13:04:06  <andythenorth> you still are limited to 255 industry tiles I think
13:04:09  <andythenorth> but it's enough
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13:04:40  <andythenorth> I could paste FIRS code, but it's very complex
13:04:56  <stefino> I can find it in repo ;)
13:05:33  <andythenorth> 'relative_pos' is the var you want
13:05:35  <andythenorth> in nml
13:05:59  <andythenorth> if you have more than 1 industry layout, you also need to check 'layout_num'
13:07:46  <stefino> I'm doing cargos for our vehicle sets and prepared industry set for future. So I read something about coding industry in NML and found this tile-limit.
13:08:11  <stefino> okay, try to find some information about this :) hope that it will be easy to code :D :)
13:09:38  <stefino> I have a plan to look into your code and try to undasrtand how does it work
13:11:06  <stefino> my industry diagram look very similar like your ultimately
13:13:40  <andythenorth> k
13:13:53  <andythenorth> Pikka: all my pax coaches are too small
13:13:58  <andythenorth> but it looks better :P
13:14:02  <andythenorth> what horrors
13:14:06  <Pikka> too small for what?
13:15:04  <andythenorth> windows should be 3px high
13:15:10  <andythenorth> but eh
13:15:42  <andythenorth> I live with it
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13:16:10  <supermop_work> yo
13:17:07  <andythenorth> such supermop_work
13:17:57  <supermop_work> Pikka: the dmu is tops
13:18:20  <Pikka> :D
13:18:47  <Pikka> andy, the windows are a bit small on some, perhaps... especially the earlier ones, they should reach nearer the roofline?
13:19:05  <andythenorth> they should but then it doesn't look so good
13:19:40  <andythenorth> I thought it would be fine, but the steam engine looks massive now :)
13:19:46  <andythenorth> maybe that's a good thing
13:19:48  <supermop_work> andythenorth: for MUs, the 3+1 or 4+1 rakes look weird
13:20:06  <andythenorth> I could split a 4 into 2+2
13:20:19  <andythenorth> it's just more switches :P
13:20:39  <supermop_work> i think it should go 1, 2, 3, 4, 3+2, 3+3, 3+4, 4+4, 3+3+3, ...
13:20:56  <andythenorth> somewhat
13:21:04  <andythenorth> although there is an upper limit to measuring length :P
13:21:11  <andythenorth> but % is useful eh
13:21:18  <supermop_work> hm
13:21:20  <andythenorth> also can't remember if you saw this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8971/horse_tee_pee_o_2.png
13:22:17  <supermop_work> i know 1 car units coupled to 2s or 3s are prototypical in the uk, but they look odd proportionally
13:22:36  <andythenorth> proto schmoto
13:22:40  <andythenorth> it looks wrong 3+1
13:23:28  <andythenorth> I just need to use odd/even check on lengths that are divisible by 2
13:23:35  <supermop_work> vestigial railcar hanging off the end
13:23:44  <andythenorth> and have a different rule for non-divisible-by-2
13:24:01  <supermop_work> +1 to royal mail magic
13:25:01  <supermop_work> maybe i should also jump into the british rolling stock game
13:25:26  <supermop_work> large logo only set
13:25:44  <supermop_work> A4s in large logo with yellow cab ends
13:25:59  <Pikka> burn the witch
13:26:15  <supermop_work> stephensons rocket in Large Logo
13:26:42  <supermop_work> bolt a piece of sheetmetal onto the side for the logo
13:27:28  <andythenorth> I thought about yellow ends for steam
13:27:33  <andythenorth> as there is a forums request for it
13:29:59  <andythenorth> supermop_work: no comments on the TPO :(
13:30:05  <supermop_work> large logo 91s
13:30:16  <supermop_work> tpo?
13:30:26  <andythenorth> link above
13:30:29  <supermop_work> with the blue window in the middle?
13:30:53  <supermop_work> "9:24:03 AM supermop_work  +1 to royal mail magic"
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13:31:47  <Alberth> o/
13:31:51  <supermop_work> yo Alberth
13:33:24  <andythenorth> will I be able to resist adding engine liveries? :x
13:34:19  <supermop_work> gner A4s
13:34:44  <supermop_work> NSE 43s
13:35:12  <supermop_work> regional railways pendolinos
13:35:23  <andythenorth> there are forums for fake train liveries
13:35:27  <supermop_work> indeed
13:35:53  <supermop_work> really large logo and gner are all you need
13:36:03  <supermop_work> objectively the best
13:36:14  <andythenorth> I considered LL for Horse, on flip
13:36:21  <andythenorth> so do I do the yellow ends?
13:37:23  <andythenorth> if I do yellow ends, and then split body into 1cc, 2cc, many things are possible
13:37:42  <andythenorth> and then on reverse, stripe with white or dark grey somehow
13:38:17  <andythenorth> I like the purity of 1CC, but eh, that's possible, just don't set 2CC
13:38:48  <supermop_work> yellow is not a cc
13:38:52  <supermop_work> you must do yellow
13:38:59  <stefino> so thaks Andy ;)
13:39:05  <stefino> n*
13:39:31  <supermop_work> the 2cc is offensive in its denial of warning panels
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13:41:46  <andythenorth> supermop_work: the yellow is blah blah blah but ok
13:41:51  <andythenorth> I liked pure red
13:42:30  <supermop_work> move to germany
13:44:24  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if your options are to split into groups of 3 or 4, then your switch should maybe check %12
13:44:41  <andythenorth> https://i.redd.it/1387oc4o7efy.jpg
13:44:49  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: thanks
13:45:08  <andythenorth> supermop_work: ^^
13:45:11  <andythenorth> no yellow :P
13:45:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that way, anything longer than 12 you can split off and do 4's, and the remaining bits from 1-11 you can special case what looks right
13:45:38  <supermop_work> pre-yellow is mythology in my book
13:46:04  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's groups of 2 or 3, but it's %6 in that case? o_O
13:46:16  <Eddi|zuHause> that makes sense
13:47:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be the "least common multiple"
13:47:28  <Eddi|zuHause> (possibly that name is ill-translated)
13:50:10  <andythenorth> nah it makes sense
13:50:33  <Pikka> supermop_work: as of 2016 british railways are post-yellow, apparently
13:50:41  <supermop_work> tragic
13:51:04  <Pikka> http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/traction-rolling-stock/single-view/view/yellow-front-ends-become-optional.html
13:52:20  <V453000> does anyone have a NML example of a bool parameter please? :)
13:52:38  <V453000> I want to make railtype speed limits turn on/off and then separate parameters for the actual speed
13:55:39  <V453000> would this work? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfsvrwgfe
13:55:50  <andythenorth> Pikka: so I can ignore yellow :)
13:55:55  <V453000> asking if the names: should be there and if there should be 0 and 1 or T/F
13:56:20  <andythenorth> V453000: I have to go out, good luck! :P
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13:56:33  <V453000> savage!
13:58:14  <V453000> maybe I could just set them to 0 instead for each railtype and that way disable the limit
13:58:20  <V453000> :)
13:59:33  <supermop_work> Pikka: uk trains look wrong without yellow
14:00:15  <V453000> yellow is the best colour to abuse :)
14:05:53  <Alberth> NFO newgrfs use 0/1
14:07:12  <V453000> I'm already reusing the value directly
14:07:18  <V453000> no bools :)
14:07:25  <V453000> however
14:07:26  <V453000> speed_limit: param_speed_limit_1;
14:07:29  <V453000> it's in some weird units
14:07:30  <Alberth> https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial/Parameters   <-- first example is a bool parameter
14:07:41  <V453000> when I set 30 in the parameter in game, it's 107 km/h
14:08:05  <Alberth> 100 miles, I guess?
14:08:22  <V453000> oh wow just adding km/h compiled
14:08:39  <Alberth> it's amazing stuff, every now and then :p
14:08:47  <Alberth> 1km/h may be a little slow :p
14:09:03  <V453000> no it's int variable
14:09:04  <V453000> works
14:09:14  <V453000> the only weird part is that all of my engine km/h is in the kmh-ish
14:09:19  <V453000> and this is in km/h
14:09:25  <V453000> is there any way to set the kmh/ish? :D
14:10:12  <V453000> it's not the biggest deal but it would be really nice
14:10:28  <Alberth> write more km/h at places?
14:10:31  <V453000> I thought that's what happens in case you don't specify an unit, but in case of railtype it's apparently something else
14:10:33  <V453000> m/s or something
14:10:45  <V453000> that would mean adding km/h everywhere in NUTS
14:10:49  <V453000> that's not what I want :D
14:10:58  <V453000> I just want to set kmhish in PURR
14:17:53  <V453000> introduction_date:				date(param_intro_date_1,01,01);
14:17:56  <V453000> this should work right?
14:20:04  <Alberth> no idea how to read that :)
14:20:50  <V453000> well if I can put the parameter directly into the date format
14:20:52  <V453000> date()
14:21:02  <V453000> one way to find o ut :P
14:21:10  <Alberth> yep :)
14:27:56  <V453000> it seems to work :D
14:31:10  <Alberth> \o/
14:40:19  <peter1138> Isn't it.
14:48:10  <V453000> when I do a text in the parameter settings and I want the first part to be green, and the rest the default light blue, doe I have to do this? {GREEN}GREEN{LTBLUE} PURR Speed limit (kmh)
14:48:16  <V453000> or can I have some kind of DEFAULT instead of LTBLUE?
14:48:34  <V453000> like, in case OpenTTD decides the new default is BLACK
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14:55:29  <peter1138> Ah, well I have a patch for that.
14:55:47  <V453000> XD
14:55:53  <V453000> ok using LTBLUE for now
14:55:54  <peter1138> {PREVIOUS_COLOUR}
14:56:03  <peter1138> Does what it says.
14:56:09  <V453000> oh
14:56:15  <V453000> does that work in trunk/stable?
14:56:19  <peter1138> No, it's a patch.
14:56:25  <V453000> yes, well ... :)
14:56:26  <peter1138> I could PR it.
14:56:33  <V453000> could :)
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14:59:03  <peter1138> I'll test it first ;)
14:59:16  <peter1138> Although pretty much all of the code is already in master.
15:01:42  <peter1138> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6737
15:01:45  <peter1138> ^ literally a one-liner.
15:02:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i find github very confusing...
15:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause> like i never find the link to download or view stuff
15:03:36  <peter1138> Row of tabs with Conversation, Commits and Files Changed.
15:03:50  <peter1138> Files Changed probably the quickest to view.
15:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, by the time i find that, i've clicked on at least 5 wrong buttons before
15:04:52  <peter1138> Can also clock on the commit title / hash on the first page.
15:04:55  <peter1138> *click
15:05:53  <Eddi|zuHause> but that's only view, how do i now download it and apply it to my checkout?
15:06:10  <Alberth> add .patch to the url
15:06:40  <Alberth> or .diff iirc
15:06:50  <LordAro> or use git as per https://help.github.com/articles/checking-out-pull-requests-locally/
15:07:39  <peter1138> Yeah, the git way is nice.
15:08:10  <V453000> such, 2 releases in 2 consecutive days
15:08:15  <V453000> and it's not jus a hotfix :D
15:08:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it probably is, but nobody ever explains it properly
15:08:18  <V453000> active AF
15:08:33  <peter1138> git fetch <-- command
15:08:41  <peter1138> origin <-- name of configured remote source
15:09:07  <peter1138> pull/6737/head <-- head of pull request
15:09:16  <peter1138> :branchname <-- name of local branch to use
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15:11:10  <peter1138> (then you checkout the branch)
15:11:32  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like way too many steps
15:11:41  <peter1138> It's 2 steps.
15:12:49  <peter1138> You could make an alias to make it a one-liner if you like.
15:14:32  <peter1138> Beats svn. download the patch, copy patch to local folder, get the correct revision. apply the patch, reapply the patch because it failed first time cos you forgot -p.
15:17:03  <Alberth> you don't even need a local branch name to check it out
15:17:52  <Alberth> forgot -p?  how does that happen
15:20:31  <peter1138> Well, forgot or got the wrong number.
15:20:46  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but it could offer the "git fetch" command ready on the website
15:21:11  <peter1138> The website doesn't know what you called it as a remote.
15:24:38  <Eddi|zuHause> according to https://help.github.com/articles/checking-out-pull-requests-locally/ there should be a "command line instructions" button, but it's nowhere to be found
15:25:34  <peter1138> It is right there.
15:26:35  <Eddi|zuHause> not here
15:27:32  <peter1138> Fair enough. Not there when signed out.
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15:28:08  <peter1138> The command line given is to checkout the branch and then manually merge it, rather than just grab the PR.
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16:02:18  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what do you think about testing compilation with various configure options, like --disable-network. Useful or complete waste of CPU time? #coop used to run a weekly job (https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/OpenTTD/193/). I ask because I would trink it would trigger on #6736
16:03:48  <LordAro> could pick one at random
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16:04:12  <LordAro> ...not that that makes any sense
16:04:30  <LordAro> could be part of the nightly build, maybe?
16:04:43  <LordAro> wouldn't want it as part of CI or anything
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16:25:57  <Eddi|zuHause> MOAR AUTOMATED TESTS!
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16:26:59  <andythenorth_> so how many engine IDs we have? o_O
16:27:19  <peter1138> 65534?
16:27:25  <Eddi|zuHause> 0x4000 if you want articulated vehicles
16:27:37  * andythenorth_ stupid idea
16:28:20  <andythenorth_> group vehicles in buy menu (one of those +\- toggle things)
16:29:12  <andythenorth_> “liveries” and other BAD FEATURES use IDs, not stupid hacks on props
16:30:05  <frosch123> andythenorth_: object gui and airport gui have separate selection boxes, no tree
16:30:23  <andythenorth_> might also work
16:30:31  <frosch123> also who-shall-not-be-named had a views suggestion, similar to how the waypoint gui works
16:30:40  <andythenorth_> UI tbc :p
16:31:03  <andythenorth_> the main thing is ‘use IDs’ not abuse props
16:31:26  <frosch123> you cannot change ids after construction
16:31:38  <frosch123> so, using ids is also bad :)
16:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the idea of "views" was also to be fixed at construction
16:31:59  <andythenorth_> no that’s one of the good points frosch123 :)
16:32:32  <andythenorth_> no crap with autorefit, autoreplace etc
16:32:34  <Eddi|zuHause> my idea to abuse "views" was to change the number of articulated parts
16:33:16  <andythenorth_> vehicle props are static, no cb36 needed, no subtype abuse
16:33:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so you don't clutter the buy menu with vehicles that are the same, just different length. and different introduction dates
16:34:15  <andythenorth_> no massive spec change, just a prop per vehicle, and a UI extensipn to navigate groups
16:34:25  <andythenorth_> phone typing sucks :(
16:35:44  <andythenorth_> livery over-rides also can get really really detailed :D :p
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16:36:43  <frosch123> ok, sounds reasonable :)
16:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> well, airports, stations and stuff had pretty tight limits on the number of groups available to be defined
16:37:51  <andythenorth_> we just need an improved way to navigate in UI :p
16:38:01  <frosch123> which sprite is displayed in the list? the first sub-id, the last-used sub-id, or is there special magic for that line?
16:38:11  <andythenorth_> first in group
16:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd still lean towards the "views" idea, which essentially replaces the old cargo subtypes
16:38:33  <andythenorth_> groups _could_ be done like engine order
16:38:39  <andythenorth_> which nml magics
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16:38:52  <andythenorth_> could just define order n times in nml
16:39:03  <andythenorth_> nfo would be less magical :(
16:39:04  <frosch123> essentially "group_id" property :) not mixable between newgrf
16:39:14  <andythenorth_> not mixable
16:39:25  <andythenorth_> similar to stations maybe?
16:39:35  <frosch123> stations would be mixable
16:39:41  <peter1138> station groups are mixable iirc.
16:39:42  <frosch123> also stations have separate name for the group
16:39:46  <peter1138> station classes anyway
16:39:50  <peter1138> maybe not :)
16:40:32  * peter1138 attempts to remember all that work he did over a decade ago.
16:40:54  <andythenorth_> biab
16:41:43  <peter1138> Ah yes, I need to go shopping.
16:42:13  <Eddi|zuHause> be careful, it's Blitzermarathon
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16:58:45  <Wolf01> Moin
17:03:14  <Alberth> o/
17:09:29  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
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17:17:36  <peter1138> Why did you leave!?!!!?
17:17:46  <V453000> !!!
17:18:04  <V453000> Who were you with!!!
17:18:37  <andythenorth>  Tesco innit
17:18:40  <andythenorth> getting the van washed
17:18:45  <andythenorth> buying tomatoes
17:18:57  <andythenorth> also went climbing
17:19:04  <andythenorth> I used to live here
17:19:07  <andythenorth> I used to live here
17:19:21  <andythenorth> I used to live here https://www.flickr.com/photos/69838920@N04/8562396843
17:19:31  <andythenorth> not in the picture, but I've walked along that train track
17:19:37  <peter1138> Oh I see. Actually I also went to Tesco.
17:19:52  <andythenorth> don't you live in the spiritual home of Tesco?
17:19:58  <andythenorth> or is that Cheshunt?
17:20:03  <peter1138> No, that's Ch...
17:20:24  <andythenorth> when I was a kid, I always wondered how to pronounce Cheshunt
17:20:29  <andythenorth> it was on every tin of beans
17:20:32  <peter1138> I still don't know.
17:21:06  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I lost the WSL icon
17:24:13  <andythenorth> what next?
17:24:22  <peter1138> Group livery GUI
17:24:26  <andythenorth> ok
17:24:29  <andythenorth> winning
17:24:32  <andythenorth> then NRT
17:24:47  <andythenorth> then vehicle-groups-in-buy-menu
17:24:51  <peter1138> Actually...
17:24:56  <peter1138> I'm going out.
17:24:58  <peter1138> Cos it's MTB night.
17:25:01  <andythenorth> fair
17:25:07  <peter1138> Except it'll be weird, cos it's kinda warm.
17:25:14  <andythenorth> it is very warm
17:25:25  <peter1138> Probably less warm at 10pm, mind.
17:25:29  <andythenorth> got a branch in your fork yet? o_O
17:26:21  <peter1138> Wait is that git or bikes? :p
17:26:38  <andythenorth> I meant git, but yes
17:27:31  <andythenorth> hmm there was a grf for black company colour
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17:27:52  <andythenorth> I've lost it :P
17:28:11  <Eddi|zuHause> a fork without a branch is a spear?
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17:38:07  <andythenorth> what wouldn't work with ID groups?
17:38:11  <andythenorth> auto-replace fine
17:38:14  <andythenorth> shared orders fine
17:38:18  <andythenorth> station refit fine
17:38:40  <andythenorth> AI?
17:41:26  <Eddi|zuHause> you now have to make individual autoreplace commands per ID, and cannot set a group to replace with another group
17:41:58  <andythenorth> unless we rewite autoreplace
17:42:12  <Eddi|zuHause> and you still get prototype announcements and randomized introduction dates per ID instead of per group
17:42:13  <andythenorth> probably better not to
17:42:21  <andythenorth> ah the prototypes would suck
17:42:28  <andythenorth> and the random intro dates
17:42:30  <andythenorth> ok
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17:59:56  <peter1138> Uh oh, my water bottle has been outside all day. In the sun. It's going to taste nasty.
18:01:40  <andythenorth> ugh
18:01:56  <peter1138> Oh. What's the allowed list of commit prefixes now?
18:06:23  <LordAro> not Codestyle :p
18:06:57  <LordAro> peter1138: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD-git-hooks/blob/master/hooks/check-message.py#L5
18:23:48  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I agree that a weekly or  so job with a big matrix of all kinds of options would be good; but it wont help with a PR?
18:24:50  <TrueBrain> and yeah, CPU power is a bit of an issue there; but I think we can find a way to solve that :)
18:28:34  <andythenorth> anyone else got a broken FIRS 3.0.7? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1205416#p1205416
18:28:39  <andythenorth> I can't repro
18:28:51  <andythenorth> 25MB save from a dodgy looking site, won't load in my OpenTTD
18:30:06  <frosch123> maybe they used a patchpack that rebased on one of the broken revisions :p
18:30:47  <andythenorth> given that the reporter is my #1 forums annoyance right now
18:30:53  <andythenorth> I'm not inclined to dig deeper :(
18:31:10  <andythenorth> I can read the FIRS diff for last 100 revs or so, there's nothing there that would break tiles afaict
18:32:37  <frosch123> there were 4 broken revisions on march 11
18:32:52  <frosch123> (ottd revisions)
18:32:56  <frosch123> no nightly though
18:38:03  <andythenorth> I ignore until someone else reports
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18:43:27  <Eddi|zuHause> exif data says: "Software                        : jgrpp-0.23.0 Description                     : Graphics set: OpenGFX (5580).NewGRFs:.F1250007 50167EDDB317877D8E42950458E85EA0 firs_industry_replacement_set_3-3.0.7\firs.grf [...]"
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18:48:03  <andythenorth> so JGR
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18:49:11  <andythenorth> thanks
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18:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> putting this stuff in the exif data is nice, but somehow no "normal" image viewer allows easy access to that
19:01:17  <TrueBrain> why does every project always start as a nice to read shell script ... and end up in a totally unreadable?! :(
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19:02:39  <frosch123> it's worse with perl :p
19:03:08  <TrueBrain> YES! True! :D
19:03:36  <LordAro> TrueBrain: if you're in need of some processing power, i could talk to the hosting company i used to work for
19:03:40  <LordAro> they like sponsoring people
19:04:04  <frosch123> why benevolent?
19:05:50  <TrueBrain> LordAro: often we notice that these deals, how ever much I appreciate them, die within a year
19:06:12  <TrueBrain> the mirrors that survived so far, for example, are of those with people still active for those companies
19:06:25  <TrueBrain> so I am a bit reluctant
19:06:38  <TrueBrain> but, if we can get ccache to work, we can do a lot more compiling in a lot shorter window :D
19:08:25  <LordAro> mm, perhaps
19:08:35  <LordAro> they do sponsor all sorts of OSS projects though
19:08:53  <LordAro> hell, debian, freebsd have a load of infrastructure there
19:09:05  <TrueBrain> bandwidth, or also CPU? :)
19:09:18  <TrueBrain> but yeah, lets first see what we get out of our own box :)
19:09:34  <LordAro> i can't say i know details, but they're not usually too fussed about such limits
19:19:17  <andythenorth> if we can do cattle not pets, we could just go wherever someone will lend us CPUs :)
19:19:22  * andythenorth probably believes the hype too much
19:19:34  <andythenorth> Openstack and friends probably not all that good :P
19:20:40  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that why we use docker now?
19:21:01  <andythenorth> still have to orchestrate VMs
19:21:04  <andythenorth> afaik
19:21:12  <andythenorth> docker has to be run somewhere :)
19:30:04  <TrueBrain> okay .. seems I have a base image for 10.13 .. now lets make a 10.12 real quick, so I can feed andythenorth a binary to test :D
19:30:08  <andythenorth> :)
19:31:00  <TrueBrain> well, I believe someone wise said I should just target 10.9
19:32:57  <TrueBrain> owh, it install clang 3.8 again
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19:32:58  <TrueBrain> not what I wanted
19:34:37  <TrueBrain> I dont get clang .. if I install another version, I have 2 clangs :P
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19:38:53  <TrueBrain> by default it doesnt install alternatives, it seems .. odd :(
19:39:37  <LordAro> mm
19:41:30  <TrueBrain> trying out clang 6.0 .. beucase ... I guess OSX plays nicer with newer versions :)
19:42:30  <TrueBrain> and I havent installed any debug tools .. pretty annoying :D
19:42:34  <TrueBrain> not even 'file' or 'vim' :D
19:42:50  <LordAro> hehe
19:43:55  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. I guess I cannot publish this Docker, as it contains the SDK .. hmmmm
19:44:06  <TrueBrain> I do have to keep that in mind :)
19:54:07  <LordAro> does the dockerfile not just download it?
19:54:14  <LordAro> or do you have to do something more fancy to get it?
19:59:40  <andythenorth> fancy things
19:59:43  <andythenorth> are needed
19:59:55  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I can publish the Dockerfile; just not the Docker
20:00:02  <TrueBrain> (image)
20:00:44  <LordAro> i wasn't really aware you could publish the image
20:00:54  <TrueBrain> ... docker .. hub?!
20:00:59  <TrueBrain> hello rock! Talk to LordAro :)
20:01:00  <LordAro> but i guess docker hub can't be building stuff itself
20:01:09  <LordAro> i've not thought about it much
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20:12:38  <TrueBrain> OSX openttd binary is 35 MiB
20:12:41  <TrueBrain> wuthhhh??!!!
20:14:31  <LordAro> something getting statically linked?
20:14:40  <TrueBrain> yup
20:14:47  <TrueBrain> in the old days we had to for OSX
20:14:50  <TrueBrain> I wonder if we stillhave to
20:15:01  <TrueBrain> only for dependencies?
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20:17:19  <TrueBrain> okay, clang 5 already supports x17 ... 6 is still experimental
20:17:22  <TrueBrain> so lets try clang 5 :)
20:17:28  <TrueBrain> hmm
20:17:31  <TrueBrain> those are also marked expr
20:17:33  <TrueBrain> exp
20:17:41  <LordAro> what's x17?
20:17:47  <TrueBrain> old habbit
20:17:48  <TrueBrain> c++17
20:17:51  <LordAro> ah
20:18:14  <TrueBrain> hmm, no, 6 is released
20:18:19  <LordAro> i was about to say
20:18:20  <TrueBrain> 7 is in progress
20:18:23  <LordAro> i have it on my system :p
20:18:26  <TrueBrain> so ... why do my downloads show exp
20:18:32  <TrueBrain> that says absolutely NOTHING
20:18:35  <TrueBrain> :P
20:18:59  <LordAro> i know arch is bleeding edge, but i'd have to actually actively try to get experimental releases :p
20:19:02  <TrueBrain> ah, fuck it, 6.0 it is
20:19:13  <TrueBrain> but you didnt say you installed it via your package manager, to name one
20:19:19  <TrueBrain> I have a lot of stuff on my system :D
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20:37:46  <TrueBrain> even if I do not compile it with --enable-static, it is 35 MiB .. damn
20:37:55  <TrueBrain> owh, wasnt static always enabled for OSX ..
20:38:20  <frosch123> osx used to be 3 binaries in one
20:38:48  <frosch123> but i think only one of them exists anymore
20:38:49  <TrueBrain> dont get me started about that :P
20:39:03  <TrueBrain> but I now compiled just one :)
20:39:33  <TrueBrain> no, static is not on by default on OSX
20:39:37  <TrueBrain> why is this so big :P
20:40:28  <frosch123> also, i need to relicense bananas2... both content server and musa are gpl2 only, so i believe i cannot add them to my gpl3+ project
20:40:57  <TrueBrain> please, either go MIT or stay gplv2
20:41:11  <TrueBrain> otherwise it feels you are changing license for the heck of it :P
20:42:35  <frosch123> i wonder what gh does if i force push a new history with a different licence :p
20:42:49  <TrueBrain> it doesnt care
20:42:51  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: https://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/openttd-custom-20180417-g9175c349-OSX.zip
20:42:53  <TrueBrain> give it a spin please :)
20:43:13  <TrueBrain> frosch123: honestly, I would really suggest keeping it GPLv2; or you must have a very good reason  not to. A single license for a Project is kinda nice .. less confusion etc :)
20:43:32  <frosch123> yes, i'll now use gplv2
20:45:17  <andythenorth> frosch123: you can add them to gpl3 with permission from copyright holders :P
20:45:20  <andythenorth> admin :P
20:46:26  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: binary works for me \o/
20:46:37  <frosch123> yay, gh noticed the new licence
20:46:38  <TrueBrain> can you play for a bit, see if there are any noticable issues?
20:47:00  <TrueBrain> okay, ICU is 8 MiB .. and I need to compile that static on OSX
20:47:10  <TrueBrain> as otherwise we have to tell people to install macports etc :P
20:47:29  <andythenorth> I leave an AI game going
20:47:34  <andythenorth> no I can't actually, AIs crash a lot
20:47:36  <andythenorth> hmm
20:47:41  <TrueBrain> things like mouse issues
20:47:43  <TrueBrain> FF speed
20:47:48  <TrueBrain> the usual bugs etc with OSX
20:47:49  <michi_cc> ICU should actually be even more, because you also need the data lib.
20:47:52  <andythenorth> FF is not working anyway
20:47:56  <andythenorth> I test mouse
20:48:19  <TrueBrain> data lib? I dunno .. I just compile static, and that seems to give one working bunch of stuff ..
20:48:23  <TrueBrain> just 30 MiB full of it
20:49:09  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I was more wonderinf this compiled a bit more proper, if this version is also better than what we currently publish
20:49:20  <TrueBrain> guess it doesnt really matter, and the bugs are really in the code
20:49:22  <TrueBrain> not in the build process :D
20:49:29  <TrueBrain> owh well, working OSX! \o/
20:49:32  <TrueBrain> both CI and release
20:49:49  <andythenorth> there seem to be more bugs on 10.13
20:49:51  <TrueBrain> I target 10.9 now, on michi_cc's advise; can always be changed :)
20:49:56  <andythenorth> I have to get child #1 to test on Sunday
20:49:58  <TrueBrain> and I only target x86_^4
20:50:02  <andythenorth> he gets 1 day a week on ottd
20:50:04  <TrueBrain> and I only target x86_64
20:50:14  <TrueBrain> no more PPC and i386 :P
20:50:29  <andythenorth> mouse has maybe stopped glitching as much
20:50:31  <TrueBrain> can I strip this binary more or something ...
20:50:35  * andythenorth has to try more
20:53:26  <TrueBrain> stripped it is 34 MiB instead of 35 ...
20:53:28  <TrueBrain> lolz
20:54:04  <TrueBrain> well, it always has been this big .. so I guess why stop now
20:54:11  <TrueBrain> happy with the result; bed time now
20:54:13  <TrueBrain> nn!
20:54:23  <TrueBrain> tnx btw andythenorth :)
20:54:29  <andythenorth> thanks to you TB
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21:29:40  <andythenorth> it's pikka
21:30:01  <Pikka> whence
21:30:19  <Pikka> good bordig andy o/
21:31:26  <andythenorth> very coaches http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8985/horse_1860_1900_1930.png
21:31:28  <andythenorth> 3 generations
21:31:42  <andythenorth> grey roofs must die though :)
21:33:00  <andythenorth> probably I should add yellow ends also
21:35:33  <Pikka> yellow roofs, obv solution.
21:35:46  <andythenorth> shiny
21:36:26  <andythenorth> I thought about CC roofs https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/vXsAAOSwMNxXZEO0/s-l640.jpg
21:36:38  <andythenorth> kind of like all roofs same colour though
21:36:42  <Pikka> and such integer train lengths :P
21:36:58  <Pikka> I think we had some cc-roof style cars in NARS?
21:37:21  <andythenorth> talgo or something
21:37:30  <Pikka> yar
21:37:36  <andythenorth> you can *not* make integer trains with horse
21:37:42  <andythenorth> unlike with V453000 grfs
21:39:03  <andythenorth> he didn't respond :P
21:40:11  <Pikka> how rare
21:41:27  <V453000> wot xd
21:41:31  <V453000> integer trains?
21:41:51  <V453000> ah 8/8 stuff
21:43:22  <Eddi|zuHause> funnily, integer means 16/8
21:47:30  <andythenorth> is bed
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22:02:36  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:41:30  <supermop> Pikka: will civil ai ever build a passenger train?
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22:41:49  <Pikka> not currently, no
22:42:35  <Pikka> currently it builds trains to industries which produce goods, food, or nothing.
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23:25:56  <V453000> Eddi|zuHause2: obviously :)
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