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Hmm. 08:00:05 <andythenorth> Pikka: mines a P2 08:00:18 <andythenorth> I'm not doing cheese steamers 08:03:05 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 08:09:38 <peter1138> ukrs3 looks nice 08:24:51 <andythenorth> UKRSn+1 08:38:02 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 08:38:17 <Pikka> mmm, cheese 08:38:40 <peter1138> Cheese please louise. 08:39:26 <peter1138> andythenorth, I pushed an update (rebased so you need to drop local branch first) 08:39:40 <peter1138> There's a "slight" issue with it :p 08:41:52 *** Zexaron has quit IRC 08:50:18 <andythenorth> did it gain shared vehicles commands? o_O 08:50:33 <andythenorth> oh no they're in trunk too 08:50:34 <andythenorth> nvm 08:50:42 * andythenorth bbl 08:50:44 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 09:06:05 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:16:39 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 10:39:41 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:09:18 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 11:16:34 <LordAro> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6747 pretty sure this was justified 11:17:31 <__ln__> an integrated web browser? 11:27:00 <SpComb> then you could use asm.js to play openttd inside openttd? 11:27:36 <SpComb> but probably for like NewGRF READMEs on bananas 11:32:52 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 11:32:56 <peter1138> When do we get NewMap? 11:34:28 <__ln__> are you talking about the thing that was previously talked about in ~2005? 11:35:37 <SpComb> I would like bendy 3D bridges 11:37:45 <__ln__> i need underground tunnels 11:38:31 <peter1138> Yeah. 11:39:25 <__ln__> fair enough, regular tunnels are underground by definition. but i mean... below sea-level, and also stations in tunnels, and so on. 11:45:57 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 11:51:51 <SpComb> https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=839713878 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=854664535 11:52:00 <SpComb> openttd just isn't moddable enough :P 11:53:26 <SpComb> wtf, the latter is even "This is an official mod from the Transport Fever developer team" 12:00:02 <peter1138> Do I need to get myself Transport Fever next time it's on salae? 12:00:05 <peter1138> And sale. 12:30:30 <V453000> just go bike instead :P 12:30:46 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:34:03 <peter1138> Probably a good idea. 12:36:31 <V453000> also I finally made my resizing python script work with drag&dropping pictures/folders onto it ... I haven't worked on the trains for months and I completely forgot what format of a command does it want to eat ... apparently rewriting it was the easiest solution :d 12:36:34 <V453000> automation ._. 12:46:22 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:12:02 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 13:13:20 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:18:28 *** cHawk has quit IRC 13:30:28 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:30:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:30:47 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 13:51:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:52:51 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:53:25 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:53:47 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 13:54:42 <andythenorth> o/ 13:54:58 <peter1138> Maybe I should get Skyrim VR. 13:55:57 <Alberth> o/ 13:58:07 <andythenorth> done up a Turtle 13:58:09 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9007/horse_turtle.png 13:58:14 <andythenorth> fast pax diesel engine 13:58:22 <andythenorth> which livery? 13:59:07 <andythenorth> (the choices are just 1CC + 2CC or swapped) 14:00:38 <andythenorth> "mainly 2cc" matches the coaches 14:00:50 <andythenorth> "mainly 1cc" matches the other engines in this tech tree 14:04:03 <peter1138> Well... 14:04:21 <peter1138> All of them :p 14:05:20 <andythenorth> group livery UI only allows one color choice right? 14:05:26 <andythenorth> no split engines / arbitrary wagons 14:05:33 <andythenorth> or power types and stuff 14:06:59 <peter1138> Yeah, just one per group. 14:07:23 <peter1138> I did mention it could possibly have the whole normal thing per group, but that would be overkill and silly. 14:07:43 <peter1138> But now you mention it, someone will complain ;p 14:08:08 <andythenorth> the normal thing per group is fine 14:08:15 <peter1138> And that would require my UI to be completely changed again. 14:08:15 <andythenorth> it's just that the implementation is weird :) 14:09:00 <peter1138> g->livery[LS_END]? o_O 14:09:17 <andythenorth> I'd have to look that up :P 14:15:27 <peter1138> Might as well have individually assignable colours per vehicle ;p 14:15:45 <andythenorth> hurgh :P 14:15:49 <andythenorth> well 14:15:51 <peter1138> Hmm, though having the whole set of liveries per group wouldn't make sense. 14:15:59 <peter1138> As groups have vehicle types. 14:16:06 <andythenorth> yeah, some options would be meaningless 14:16:16 <peter1138> Although it would be the easier way to implement it. 14:16:47 <andythenorth> it's potato / potato to me 14:16:56 <andythenorth> whatever's simplest to implement 14:17:00 <andythenorth> one livery is fine 14:17:14 <andythenorth> the current set of liveries is silly, but kind of useful 14:17:32 <peter1138> Actually the UI changes would be simpler ;? 14:17:33 <peter1138> :/ 14:17:37 <andythenorth> hmm do I have the right branch from your fork? 14:17:44 <andythenorth> group-livery 14:18:16 <FLHerne> Anyone review a 1-line NML patch? :P http://www.flherne.uk/files/nml.diff 14:18:55 <FLHerne> Boolean conversions only occur with logical ops, where they're generated implicitly 14:19:02 <andythenorth> I reviewed it and discovered I don't understand it :) 14:19:09 <andythenorth> I can't commit that :) 14:19:14 <andythenorth> maybe Alberth 14:19:20 <FLHerne> The current code turns !foo into !!!(foo) which turns into !!!(!!(foo)) etc 14:20:39 <FLHerne> So the end result is that running nmlc --nml=... in a loop results in an infinitely large file consisting mostly of !!() :P 14:21:04 <peter1138> andythenorth, yeah, if you scrapped it and repulled. 14:21:10 <peter1138> (i rebased) 14:21:15 <andythenorth> I trashed the repo and recloned 14:21:21 <peter1138> kk 14:21:32 <peter1138> there's no button in the group window any more 14:21:35 <peter1138> it's all in company colours 14:21:46 <andythenorth> wow 14:21:48 <peter1138> mainly cos i didn't want to have to design an icon :p 14:21:51 <peter1138> and it's broken 14:21:57 <peter1138> but not massively 14:23:01 <andythenorth> if I drew an icon, button on group window could open that livery window, focussed on correct grop 14:23:03 <andythenorth> group * 14:23:23 <peter1138> Could do. 14:24:36 <andythenorth> wow 14:24:40 <andythenorth> how much wrong in one post? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1205831#p1205831 14:24:46 <andythenorth> C++ is outdated and slow 14:24:54 <andythenorth> newgrf is the cause of all the performance issues in the game 14:25:01 <andythenorth> changing language makes specs unnecessary 14:25:43 <LordAro> i'm curious what he thinks would be a better language 14:26:13 <andythenorth> I'm curious about how much wrong can be in one post 14:26:30 <andythenorth> I mean there are people who have obvious mental health issues who can top that easily 14:26:44 <andythenorth> but that's high up the list for recent years 14:26:55 <andythenorth> oops I should be elsewhere 14:26:57 <andythenorth> BIAB 14:27:03 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:28:40 <peter1138> I don't even think NewGRF is particularly slow. Just that particular case. 14:38:13 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:45:12 <Alberth> just a bit inconvenient interface 14:45:22 <Alberth> but there are more such points in the spec 14:46:59 <Alberth> FLHerne: that patch won't fly, boolean should get limited to 0 or 1, which happens with !! 14:47:34 <FLHerne> Alberth: Yes, but the parser inserts those implicitly when parsing logical ops 14:48:02 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:48:05 <FLHerne> !!(foo) appearing in the source still gets parsed and saved fine 14:48:35 <Alberth> I am not sure it's a problem, there is code for simplifying expressions too 14:49:06 <FLHerne> Alberth: Without this patch, we read !!(foo) and write it as !!!(!!!(foo)) 14:49:32 <Alberth> what if you don't have a logical op? eg use it as integer index, for example 14:50:24 <FLHerne> The same happens 14:50:36 <Alberth> without !! as you propose 14:50:44 <FLHerne> 'Boolean' doesn't have any rule directly in the parser 14:51:00 <FLHerne> !! is always parsed as LogicalNot 14:51:08 <Alberth> integers are also booleans, like in C 14:51:21 <FLHerne> Yes, I know 14:51:23 <Alberth> 0 is false, anything else is true 14:51:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:51:54 <Alberth> but that breaks if you use a boolean in an integer context 14:52:06 <Alberth> as it must be 0 or 1 then 14:52:13 <FLHerne> Yes, but that's also implicit... 14:52:38 <FLHerne> Hm, I need to re-explain 14:52:40 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 14:54:03 <FLHerne> To the parser, !value means LogicalNot(Boolean(value)) 14:54:10 <Alberth> if you can detect the child expression to be a boolean with those limits in place already, it could work 14:54:20 <Alberth> yes 14:54:31 <FLHerne> !!value is just that, nested 14:54:34 <Alberth> and !! means (x) ? 1 : 0 14:54:45 <Alberth> which is not the same as x 14:55:04 <Alberth> namely for all values x other than 0 and 1 14:55:11 <FLHerne> Yes, but it doesn't mean that as a different symbol 14:55:25 <peter1138> x != 0 14:55:48 <Alberth> (((..(x != 0) != 0) != 0) ... ) 14:56:42 <FLHerne> If you actually write !!foo in the source, it's parsed as LogicalNot(Boolean(LogicalNot(Boolean(<foo>)))) 14:56:55 <Alberth> yes 14:56:58 <FLHerne> The conversion is implied by the existence of ! 14:57:21 <FLHerne> So when writing out the AST, adding /extra/ !!()s for the conversions is never necessary 14:57:43 <peter1138> So, er... what patch are you talking about? 14:57:45 <FLHerne> (fwiw, this is also true for the other operators that cause int->bool conversions 14:57:47 <FLHerne> ) 14:57:58 <Alberth> for the second time, it's not, for the first time, when your child is "<foo>", it is 14:58:33 <FLHerne> Alberth: I think you're confused about what the change changes :P 14:58:47 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 14:58:54 <Alberth> that's quite possible :) 14:59:12 <FLHerne> It doesn't stop the parser creating Boolean nodes in the AST, it just stops them being written out 14:59:45 *** synchris has joined #openttd 15:00:20 <FLHerne> Because they're /always/ implicit 15:00:53 <Alberth> if a boolean mode is "2", then writing out "2" and "!!2" is not the same, so where is the !! added for the child then? 15:01:01 <Alberth> mode=node 15:01:02 <FLHerne> An 'explicit' boolean conversion is parsed as a pair of logicalnots, which then implicitly get the Boolean nodes added 15:01:12 <FLHerne> Alberth: By the logicalnots 15:01:25 <Alberth> ah, ok 15:01:25 <FLHerne> peter1138: It's http://www.flherne.uk/files/nml.diff 15:02:01 <Alberth> so an "assert isinstance(expr, LogicalNot)" would hold? 15:03:07 <FLHerne> No, implicit bool conversions also get generated for the other logical ops 15:03:28 <Alberth> ok, add the other logical operators too :) 15:04:00 <Alberth> assert(expr, (LogicalNot, LogicalAnd, LogicalOr)) 15:04:07 <Alberth> +isinstance 15:04:11 <peter1138> Ah, nml. 'Nother Magic Language 15:04:53 <FLHerne> Alberth: No, it's the other way round 15:04:56 <Alberth> for me, NewGRF is the magic language :) 15:05:22 <FLHerne> Alberth: The /children/ of logicalops get Boolean conversion nodes, because that makes sense :P 15:05:39 <FLHerne> Really, I think it's a code-gen hack rather than a proper syntax tree 15:05:43 <FLHerne> Well, no 15:05:46 <FLHerne> It makes sense 15:06:57 <Alberth> well, not sure, a logicalop could handle arbitrary integer values as input, unlike anything surrounding a logical expression which is not aware of it being a boolean 15:07:23 <FLHerne> Anyway, my reasoning is: 15:07:42 <FLHerne> - There is no Boolean symbol in the tokenizer/parser 15:07:58 <Alberth> sounds likely 15:08:11 <FLHerne> - Therefore all Booleans appearing in the AST must have been implicitly created while parsing other nodes 15:09:02 <FLHerne> - Therefore the parent node must imply the existence of the conversion 15:09:28 <Alberth> code is also created at a later stage, while simplifying an expression, or rewriting to a form that you can actually implement 15:09:35 <FLHerne> - Therefore we don't need to write out extra syntax for the conversion, because we know it's there 15:10:32 <FLHerne> That's a point, I need to check if that can happen 15:11:30 <andythenorth> V453000: http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_ru-tem19-gas-loco-tmh.jpg 15:12:00 <V453000> wotwot 15:13:19 <peter1138> Alberth, I don't think anyone's called NewGRF a language before ;) 15:14:01 <andythenorth> I wanted to make a new thread for that discussion 15:14:09 <andythenorth> it's a bit unfair on JGR 15:14:14 <peter1138> :) 15:14:27 <andythenorth> pisses me off when threads about my stuff take a 2 or 3 page diversion into blah blha blah 15:15:16 <FLHerne> Alberth: Hrm, I think you're right :-/ 15:16:12 <andythenorth> such train https://www.railcolor.net/imgs/content/model_vossloh_dm30_2.jpg 15:16:13 <FLHerne> It does look possible that the other nodes could get reduced away, although I haven't actually been able to make an example 15:16:34 <Alberth> expression rewriting in nml is horrible :p 15:16:52 <andythenorth> nml is horrible :) 15:17:00 <andythenorth> we should replace it 15:17:03 <andythenorth> with something fast 15:17:07 <andythenorth> maybe bytecode? 15:17:16 <peter1138> Squirrel. 15:17:21 <peter1138> Wait wait. 15:17:23 <peter1138> ini files 15:17:35 <peter1138> And an undo knob. 15:17:37 <Alberth> I once tried to avoid rewriting expressions that have been rewritten already, but even deciding an expression node is not modified anywhere is already too complicated to decide, I found 15:17:51 <andythenorth> peter1138: an MP undo knob 15:17:58 <Alberth> yaml is much nicer 15:18:00 <andythenorth> and a redo knob 15:18:07 <FLHerne> Bleh, and there's no sane way to look at the parent node to make sure it implies the conversion... 15:18:14 <Alberth> andy: undo the undo :p 15:18:34 <peter1138> I'm not sure I've ever looked at nml code properly. 15:18:40 <peter1138> I don't know the structure of it. 15:18:41 <andythenorth> "no need" 15:18:56 <FLHerne> Oh, I can see a way to fix that, but it'll be horrible :P 15:19:03 <andythenorth> the action 0 and action 2 map in nml 15:19:21 <andythenorth> the action 3 is hidden away 15:19:35 <andythenorth> action 1 kind of maps 15:19:59 <andythenorth> there's a lot of magic, what has been done is quite an achivement 15:19:59 <Alberth> the problem of newgrf are this riddles in action X sentences 15:20:10 <Alberth> no way to understand them 15:20:12 <peter1138> varaction nonsense too 15:20:21 <andythenorth> I have a whole saved transcript "the trouble with nml" 15:20:39 <andythenorth> but apart from being terrible at bytecode, nfo never troubled me 15:20:42 <andythenorth> and I am not a programmer 15:20:45 <peter1138> The concept of having to ask what sprite to draw everything time is flawed, imho. 15:20:59 <peter1138> -thing 15:21:03 <andythenorth> is there really no caching? 15:21:20 <andythenorth> does it run the chain every time the graphics are drawn? 15:21:37 <Alberth> cache implies you know the decision ahead 15:21:46 <andythenorth> but mostly the decision doesn't need to be made 15:21:54 <Alberth> but it's arbitrary decision code 15:21:57 <peter1138> andythenorth, yes, becuase, you know, something might have changed. 15:22:10 <andythenorth> yes, the prototype might be blue on Tuesdays in 1931 15:22:12 <peter1138> like those animated steamers. 15:22:14 <andythenorth> and it might be Tuesday 15:22:29 <peter1138> where the newgrf decides which frame to draw every time 15:22:31 <andythenorth> animation is the valid special case 15:22:47 <peter1138> even that doesn't need to ask every time, if it's well designed 15:22:49 <andythenorth> but there are other ways to do animation 15:22:54 <andythenorth> animation can have defined frames 15:22:55 <peter1138> (supply a list of frames at the start) 15:22:57 <peter1138> quite 15:23:02 <andythenorth> exactly 15:23:06 <andythenorth> just cycle them 15:23:06 <FLHerne> Would it be possible to scan the callback beforehand, to see which variables it depends on? 15:23:13 <andythenorth> like a walk cycle loop 15:23:24 <peter1138> I'm not sure but I think varaction processing is probably quicker in ttdpatch too. 15:23:26 <FLHerne> (and then only run ones where the deps could plausibly have changed) 15:23:37 <andythenorth> do we even know that newgrf is slow? 15:23:37 <peter1138> Far less support code around it. 15:23:47 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 15:23:54 <peter1138> It's not the slowest thing. 15:24:08 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 15:24:32 <Alberth> without assuming values, you're looking at branching into every "if", which explodes quite fast to much of the newgrf, probably 15:24:45 <peter1138> Retrying industry placement may be slow but that's not inherently newgrf's fault. 15:25:23 <Alberth> bigger points of pain is vehicle replacement, imho 15:25:32 <peter1138> Do we get the sprite for every vehicle, or just the visible ones? 15:25:41 <Alberth> industries are not created often enough 15:25:45 <andythenorth> industry placement is faster if one doesn't ECS 15:25:57 <andythenorth> maybe it shouldn't be George's responsibility 15:26:02 <andythenorth> but it is, and he's made it slow 15:26:03 <Alberth> no idea, my guess is just what needs to be drawn 15:26:05 <peter1138> I don't ECS :D 15:26:17 <andythenorth> ECS is slow to place industries because the rules are far too fine-grained 15:26:36 <andythenorth> arguably the mod framework should defend authors against that 15:26:42 <andythenorth> but then it would have to be very restricted in scope 15:26:51 <peter1138> Alberth, I have a suspicion it uses the dimenions of the sprite to fill a hash to determine what is on-screen. 15:26:55 <andythenorth> if authors want control, then they have to be responsible 15:26:58 <peter1138> Not looked for ages though. 15:27:06 <andythenorth> there are lots and lots of shit minecraft mods that will cause lag or crashes 15:27:15 <peter1138> I remember writing a patch that would cache the max possible size for a vehicle and always use that. 15:27:21 <peter1138> But, you know, patches... 15:27:34 <andythenorth> now they can be unfinished branches ;) 15:27:39 <peter1138> Yes ;) 15:27:44 <andythenorth> or stash :P 15:27:49 <andythenorth> put em in gist :P 15:27:57 * andythenorth must to go elsewhere again 15:28:01 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 15:28:02 <peter1138> I've had minecraft packs that just flat out refused to load because 8GB wasn't enough RAM. 15:29:17 <LordAro> minecraft isn't exactly known for its efficient resource usage 15:29:48 <Sacro> I find 10-12 is enough for modpacks 15:31:19 <peter1138> I have 32GB now so that should be enough. 15:36:27 <FLHerne> Alberth: Any idea if nmlop.AND not having returns_boolean is an omission or means something? 15:36:33 <FLHerne> (OR ditto) 15:37:12 <FLHerne> Oh 15:37:14 <FLHerne> Wrong one? 15:38:09 <FLHerne> Ah, no, I see 15:38:12 <FLHerne> That's clever :P 15:39:06 <FLHerne> ( | and || are actually the same operator, and converting the args to bool in the latter case makes it behave in the logical way) 15:40:04 <Alberth> it has been a few years I last looked at that code :) 15:44:40 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 15:45:01 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 15:53:06 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:02:16 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:08:12 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:21:27 <peter1138> Yay Simutrans. 16:21:56 <peter1138> I clicked on the "Net work" icon and the whole thing froze. 16:29:16 <Pikka> o/ 16:30:22 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:31:08 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:31:58 <peter1138> Apparently my company has a colour, but I've not seen it anywhere :p 16:34:30 <FLHerne> Alberth: Less of a big-hammer approach: http://www.flherne.uk/files/nml2.diff 16:35:29 <FLHerne> (also makes logical ORs and ANDs more readable even without bool conversions) 16:37:15 <FLHerne> I spent a while trying to add a `to_string_func` to Operator, but that doesn't work because Operator.to_string takes /strings/ for the exprs so can't tell whether it's a logical op 16:37:40 <FLHerne> (and it wouldn't be straightforward to change that) 16:38:33 <Alberth> I don't have the code in my head, so can't quite comment on that :) 16:39:11 <Alberth> I guess "is_boolean" is different from isinstance(expr, Boolean) ? 16:39:58 <Alberth> oh the former is also defined on operators of course 16:43:02 <Alberth> your 'not' code is the same as unpack, move the function to a more global level, and reuse? 16:46:03 <FLHerne> Probably a good idea 16:47:47 <FLHerne> I'm not really familiar with nml structure, any suggestions? 16:48:04 <FLHerne> Perhaps I should just make it a staticmethod of Boolean 16:48:09 <Alberth> I was pondering why both classes are not in the same file :p 16:48:49 <FLHerne> binary vs unary ops, I think 16:49:06 <Alberth> ah, makes somewhat sense, I guess 16:49:11 <FLHerne> Well, I don't know why anyone cared 16:49:50 <Alberth> y3xo did, no doubt 16:59:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:01:23 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:01:53 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:02:07 <Wolf01> Moin 17:02:25 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:02:57 <Wolf01> Wow, for the first time I made 249M points on pinball 17:03:15 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 17:03:39 <LordAro> Wolf01: nice 17:03:48 <LordAro> i don't think i ever got more than 10M 17:04:09 <Wolf01> It took me half of the lunch break and some time now, continuous multiballs, I had 5 balls for the entire game 17:04:40 <Wolf01> (after losing 2 of the 3 balls at the beginning) 17:04:58 <Alberth> o/ 17:07:03 <frosch123> evenink 17:07:19 <peter1138> isn't it 17:08:25 <LordAro> Wolf01: how are you playing? I hope you don't have an XP machine still... 17:09:14 <peter1138> How do I force a window to shrink? :S 17:10:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i've even thought of the existence of pinball over the last ~12 years 17:11:02 <frosch123> peter1138: ReInit() 17:11:19 <Wolf01> LordAro: on the phone 17:13:19 <peter1138> Hmm, that is being called. 17:15:04 <FLHerne> Alberth: Bleh, writing concise docstrings is hard http://www.flherne.uk/files/nml3.diff 17:15:15 <Wolf01> peter1138: I'm going to retry abusing the UnpackIfValid to extract the RoadType from RoadTypes... or you say is it better to pass the RoadType on the function call? 17:15:37 <peter1138> Don't abuse it, that's why it doesn't work :S 17:16:13 <FLHerne> Hm, I should add a comment to binop too 17:16:28 <FLHerne> nml doesn't have enough, but that's not an excuse not to add them :P 17:16:42 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:16:51 <Wolf01> Ok, then I'll remove that, pass directly the RoadType on the function call, and reimplement UnpackIfValid when we'll add subtypes 17:17:13 <Wolf01> But this mean double change on the same spot 17:18:20 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 17:18:45 <Wolf01> Or, I'll use rtid::Pack() on the function call too, which does nothing else than passing a RoadType in the current state 17:19:01 <Wolf01> So I don't have to change the function calls later 17:19:19 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:20:23 <Wolf01> I'll rearrange the p2 bits too 17:21:02 <Wolf01> What do you think? 17:25:28 <FLHerne> Alberth: http://www.flherne.uk/files/nml4.diff with added comment 17:26:30 <Alberth> bonus points! :) 17:27:03 <andythenorth> Pikka: is it not bedtime in BNE? :P 17:27:43 <FLHerne> Alberth: Are you ok to review/commit it, or do I have to nag someone else? ;P 17:27:43 <Pikka> hard to tell really :) 17:27:51 <andythenorth> what colour is outside? 17:27:54 <andythenorth> dark or light? 17:28:05 <Wolf01> Half way 17:28:33 <andythenorth> and should I? https://www.railcolor.net/imgs/content/model_vossloh_dm30_3.jpg 17:29:01 <Alberth> FLHerne: frosch123 may want to have check as well, I am not that well acquainted with nml code any more 17:29:44 <Alberth> I'll have to check what the is_bool function is doing at least :) 17:30:23 <andythenorth> FLHerne: also, how did you discover this issue? o_O 17:30:44 <Alberth> read output is my guess :p 17:31:04 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Well, I was loading and saving my file, and each time it got bigger and uglier :-( 17:31:21 <FLHerne> (with this one, it just gets ugly once and then stays unchanged with the round-trip) 17:31:35 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:31:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:31:47 <andythenorth> peter1138: so liveries look done eh :P 17:31:59 <andythenorth> can't ship without bugs, it's bad luck 17:33:45 <FLHerne> Oh, the docstring's wrong, it should have even more !!!s http://www.flherne.uk/files/nml5.diff 17:33:49 <FLHerne> (not that anyone would care) 17:36:02 *** som89_ has quit IRC 17:36:39 <FLHerne> andythenorth: n round-trips lead to 3^n exclamation marks, so exponentiation being what it is it becomes noticeable quite fast 17:44:10 <Alberth> don't recompile an nml file to itself :p 17:44:33 <Alberth> the entire is_boolean looks quite hacky 17:48:20 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 17:48:35 <frosch123> when is this stuff even used? in error messages? 17:52:57 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 17:53:03 <andythenorth> so 17:53:09 <andythenorth> futurising sets is boring 17:53:11 <andythenorth> pikka is right :P 17:53:38 <Pikka> oops 17:53:51 <andythenorth> I need to replace the 37 in 2020 17:53:58 <andythenorth> but reality doesn't help 17:54:02 <andythenorth> no time machine :P 17:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd vote for a little bit of future, but too future-y will probably fail 17:54:35 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 17:54:38 <andythenorth> I was going to use this https://www.railjournal.com/media/k2/items/cache/9fb6ed564448145aec0fb63a40dd5881_XL.jpg?t=1460752527 17:54:50 <andythenorth> but it works better for the fast pax diesel in the tech tree for 2020 17:54:53 <andythenorth> so now I have nothing to draw :P 17:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> make it a universal diesel? 17:55:11 <andythenorth> tech tree says no 17:55:22 <andythenorth> I could just have similar sprites 17:55:27 <Eddi|zuHause> make an identical one with different stats? 17:55:43 <andythenorth> the stats are already sorted :) 17:55:45 <andythenorth> and tested :) 17:56:25 <andythenorth> I did draw this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9008/2020_horse.png 17:56:34 <andythenorth> but then I stole it for the Turtle 17:57:17 <V453000> 2100+ or riot 17:57:18 <Pikka> that's a lot of locos 17:57:28 <andythenorth> everything is cheese by 2020 17:57:30 <andythenorth> maybe this? https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/M2289_1.JPG 17:57:37 <andythenorth> it's not Brit 17:58:08 <V453000> Pikka may have skewed his perception of "a lot of locos" :P 17:58:13 <andythenorth> or https://www.railjournal.com/media/k2/items/cache/77c4fe2a7e317c1ca762236f81946bfb_XL.jpg?t=943938000 17:58:18 <V453000> but yeah, minimizing iz 17:58:20 <andythenorth> V453000 pikka has same number as me 17:58:27 <andythenorth> he just hides them in A, B and C :) 17:58:31 <V453000> :D 17:58:47 <Pikka> I don't have as many electro-diesels ;) 17:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to "10 locos should be enough for anyone"? 17:59:32 <Pikka> I didn't say that, I said 10 locos should make a playable set 17:59:44 <Pikka> once you have a playable set, you can start making it more fun :P 18:00:54 <andythenorth> Pikka: how many do you have now? o_O 18:00:56 <andythenorth> 32? 18:01:04 <Pikka> something like that 18:01:45 <andythenorth> I'm at 35 now 18:01:52 <andythenorth> @calc 2020-1860 18:01:52 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 160 18:02:00 <andythenorth> @calc 160/35 18:02:00 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 4.57142857143 18:02:24 <ZehMatt> @calc 1/0 18:02:24 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: Error: float division by zero 18:02:36 <ZehMatt> @calc 1/-0 18:02:36 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: Error: float division by zero 18:02:39 <andythenorth> had to be tried eh 18:02:43 <ZehMatt> :) 18:02:47 <andythenorth> stop bullying the bot 18:02:59 <ZehMatt> u'll never know when you find the first singularity 18:03:20 <andythenorth> there's always a chance 18:06:20 <ZehMatt> @calc sqrt(1) 18:06:20 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: 1 18:07:10 <ZehMatt> @calc sin(0.5)*cos(0.2) 18:07:10 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: 0.46986894695 18:07:13 <ZehMatt> amazing 18:07:16 <ZehMatt> what is it running 18:08:15 <LordAro> supybot 18:08:27 <LordAro> (php) 18:08:40 <ZehMatt> @calc null+1 18:08:40 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: Error: 'null' is not a defined function. 18:08:51 <ZehMatt> @calc NULL+1 18:08:51 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: Error: 'null' is not a defined function. 18:08:54 <ZehMatt> ;( 18:09:05 <LordAro> come on, you can do better than that 18:09:12 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 18:09:15 <LordAro> @calc 1<< 2 18:09:15 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 18:09:20 <ZehMatt> @calc echo(1) 18:09:20 <DorpsGek> ZehMatt: Error: 'echo' is not a defined function. 18:09:20 <LordAro> @calc 1 << 2 18:09:21 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 18:09:32 <LordAro> anyway 18:09:59 <ZehMatt> oh since you are here 18:10:00 <peter1138> So 18:10:05 <ZehMatt> I've addressed the last review of yours 18:10:13 <ZehMatt> its ready from my end 18:10:59 <ZehMatt> moving a window on 120hz at 30hz is slightly akward to watch :p 18:12:07 <andythenorth> Pikka: shall I just refurb the 37 again? And not electro it? :P 18:12:13 <andythenorth> it's pretty close to IRL 18:12:25 <andythenorth> there are no replacements for 37s because they keep repairing them 18:12:33 <Pikka> I guess so 18:13:04 <andythenorth> saves drawing eh 18:13:56 <Pikka> I thought the 37s were all gone, I guess not :P 18:14:39 <andythenorth> seems there are about 40 or so left with leasing companies 18:15:30 <peter1138> ZehMatt, on my system I get horrible glitching as there's no vsync going on :S 18:15:59 <peter1138> (With your patch) 18:16:05 <ZehMatt> hm 18:16:07 <peter1138> I haven't tried the split-up version. 18:16:09 <ZehMatt> fullscreen, windowed? 18:16:24 <peter1138> It's there in master anyway, just less noticable as there is settle-time between frames. 18:16:34 <peter1138> Windowed, I'm not a monster. 18:17:03 <LordAro> unconvinced 18:17:05 <ZehMatt> i wonder how thats even possible 18:17:08 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 18:17:11 <ZehMatt> are you using sdl 18:17:18 <peter1138> BTW you didn't update the allegro driver again, it doesn't call DrawWindows() 18:17:21 <peter1138> No, I'm on Windows. 18:17:35 <ZehMatt> i cant get it go tear 18:17:42 <peter1138> It's not tearing. 18:18:02 <peter1138> Hmm, wonder if I can capture it. Unfortunately as it's GDI OBS isn't much cop. 18:18:35 *** som89_ has joined #openttd 18:18:42 <peter1138> I made my copy update the whole screen at once and it's silky smooth, of course./ 18:19:38 <ZehMatt> i keep missing those files because they are not with the VS project :D 18:19:53 <ZehMatt> one way could be to add them but exclude them from compilation 18:22:03 <peter1138> https://www.twitch.tv/peter1138 < live streaming it :p 18:22:14 <andythenorth> how modern 18:22:27 <andythenorth> so smooth :P 18:22:32 <ZehMatt> resolving host.. 18:22:59 <ZehMatt> so the mouse cursor 18:23:45 <peter1138> mouse cursor disappears, and windows get chopped up 18:24:11 <ZehMatt> the mouse cursor thing is visible on my end except the window chopping 18:24:13 <peter1138> scrolling the map is fine 18:24:36 <peter1138> it's visible, check the scroll bar on the depot window 18:24:56 <ZehMatt> hm 18:24:59 <peter1138> as i move it right 18:25:12 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 18:25:14 <peter1138> it disappears because the window has overwritten it, and it hasn't redrawn the scrollbar yet 18:25:28 <peter1138> something is not right but afaik it's all magic within BitBlt() 18:25:51 <peter1138> The surface knows what is meant be updated, and BitBlt should just magically do it. 18:26:44 <ZehMatt> weird 18:26:48 <peter1138> lol one change and it rebuilds it all 18:26:50 <ZehMatt> some of it doesnt happen on my end 18:27:07 <ZehMatt> so far only the mouse cursor so far is can reproduced here 18:27:14 <peter1138> anyway, this happens in master for me as well 18:27:16 <ZehMatt> welp 18:27:19 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:27:19 <peter1138> just your patch makes it more obvious 18:27:25 <ZehMatt> i see 18:27:49 <peter1138> With that small change I made that marks it all dirty 18:27:53 <peter1138> it's lovely, silky smooth 18:27:56 <ZehMatt> cool 18:28:02 <ZehMatt> perhaps add it to my PR? 18:28:07 <peter1138> no 18:28:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that kinda defeats the whole point? 18:28:18 <ZehMatt> what exactly did you change 18:28:19 <peter1138> marking the whole screen dirty every change is definitely wrong :) 18:28:26 <ZehMatt> oh nvm 18:28:50 <peter1138> It's like GDI is doing the BitBlt in stages :S 18:29:19 <peter1138> gonna try full screen 18:29:23 <peter1138> doubt it changes anything :) 18:29:32 <ZehMatt> ok so whats the suggestion 18:29:47 <peter1138> I have none. It's not really about your PR as it happens in master. 18:29:55 <peter1138> Just bugs me and I don't know how to fix it. 18:30:06 <ZehMatt> i can actually look into that afterwards if you want me to 18:30:09 <peter1138> I don't know what's odd about my system that other people don't have it. 18:30:55 <peter1138> Still bad on fullscreen. 18:30:59 *** Zexaron has joined #openttd 18:32:48 <peter1138> I suspect something changed in Windows over the years, everything being composited now. 18:33:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so report the bug to windows? 18:33:46 <peter1138> :p 18:33:57 <ZehMatt> well report what exactly 18:34:06 <ZehMatt> the issue needs to be isolated first 18:34:09 <peter1138> That would be "LOL WHAT YOU USE GDI!?" 18:34:16 <peter1138> Use DirectX12 kthx bye 18:34:19 <peter1138> etc etc 18:34:48 <ZehMatt> well speaking of, OpenRCT2 has OpenGL rendering, how would you feel about having that in OpenTTD 18:34:50 <peter1138> So yeah, maybe we need to switch to DX9 so we can just flip. 18:35:05 <peter1138> OpenGL is fine, someone already had a partial patch to implement it. 18:35:14 <peter1138> And I don't mean my ancient patch that was terrible. 18:35:17 <ZehMatt> i wonder if that was Overv again 18:35:29 <peter1138> It was one of the other devs. 18:35:32 <ZehMatt> he started it on orct2 and me and few others picked up lately 18:35:34 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 18:35:35 <peter1138> Can't remember who. Maybe michi_cc. 18:35:37 <ZehMatt> ah 18:35:53 <ZehMatt> maybe if i'll find some spare time ill have a look 18:36:02 <peter1138> All it needs is an OpenGL pixel buffer as a surface, and then swap that about. 18:36:18 <peter1138> My ancient patch actually used direct opengl calls to render individual sprites. terrible. 18:36:31 <ZehMatt> we are batching everything 18:36:47 <ZehMatt> it works quite well 18:36:58 <ZehMatt> and interpolation adds some butter to it :p 18:37:04 <peter1138> There's no much to batch if it's just a surface. 18:37:12 *** Zexaron1 has joined #openttd 18:37:27 <peter1138> Although you could then do nice stuff like making windows be a different surface 18:37:51 <ZehMatt> you are probably talking rendering to textures 18:38:08 <peter1138> Yes, I'm talking about not changing the game core so much. 18:38:45 <ZehMatt> yea i get that 18:38:49 <peter1138> The game already handles only updating bits it needs to. 18:39:17 *** Zexaron has quit IRC 18:40:11 <ZehMatt> damnit whitespaces 18:40:17 <peter1138> :D 18:41:33 <ZehMatt> notepad++ loves messing with me 18:42:42 <peter1138> Palette animation also becomes cheaper, with the right scheme. 18:43:27 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/dump/opengl18.diff 18:43:43 <peter1138> Some version of my ancient OpenGL patch which was all wrong. 10 years old :p 18:43:53 <peter1138> It was occasionally fast. 18:44:48 <ZehMatt> yeah i see improvement opportunities :p 18:46:19 <ZehMatt> https://github.com/OpenRCT2/OpenRCT2/blob/develop/src/openrct2-ui/drawing/engines/opengl/OpenGLDrawingEngine.cpp#L486 18:46:24 <ZehMatt> thats how its done there 18:48:25 <LordAro> michi_cc has an opengl branch somewhere 18:52:17 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 18:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/openttd.git/shortlog/refs/heads/opengl 18:58:19 <LordAro> ta 19:03:02 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 19:04:40 <_dp_> hi! is it a good idea to pass NetworkClientInfo->index in network command instead of client_id? 19:05:51 <_dp_> client_id can go up to 32bit theoretically which is too much since there are only 64 bits in parameters and a lot of other stuff I want to pass 19:06:09 <_dp_> and there are max 256 clients anyway 19:07:01 <_dp_> only problem I see with index is that theoretically another client can replace this one while command is queued 19:07:39 <_dp_> but considering it's going to be used by GS it's a 1 tick window so chances are nearly 0 19:08:03 <peter1138> That will happen all the time, then. 19:08:37 <ZehMatt> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/gfx.cpp#L1449 wouldn't be a memset better here? 19:09:21 <LordAro> probably 19:10:52 <ZehMatt> hm 19:11:00 <ZehMatt> isnt it actually width * height 19:11:06 <peter1138> It may have been profiled at some point. 19:11:08 <ZehMatt> a single memset would work? 19:11:36 <ZehMatt> oh actually no 19:11:39 <peter1138> only if width = surface width. 19:11:55 <ZehMatt> _dirty_bytes_per_line == width you mean 19:12:02 <ZehMatt> since buffer is plus that 19:12:24 <ZehMatt> well at least the inner thing should use memset 19:12:48 <ZehMatt> in most cases it will use a better path to fill the buffer 19:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: if the chance is not exactly 0, it's worthless 19:15:49 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, it may actually be 0, didn't check how network server is implemented 19:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: if you can't prove it's 0, it's not 0 19:16:43 <_dp_> A lot of stuff in OpenTTD uses indexes already actually 19:19:26 <_dp_> lol, and in exact same way I'm going to 19:20:04 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:20:59 <_dp_> Actually, much worse, since I'm only gonna keep it for 1 tick while current API has no issues exposing it to GS which can keep who knows how long 19:24:13 <peter1138> ZehMatt, hmm, so openrct2 does it sort of like how i was doing it, but with decent non-primitive-tutorial level calls... 19:25:01 *** Gja has joined #openttd 19:26:14 <peter1138> michi_cc's patch still appears to due direct calls 19:27:54 *** som89 has joined #openttd 19:31:20 <peter1138> s/due/use/ 19:31:42 *** som89_ has quit IRC 19:32:12 <peter1138> ZehMatt, well, if you want to integrate it... ;) 19:37:09 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 19:40:23 *** Pikka has quit IRC 19:42:15 <ZehMatt> would be cool 19:42:21 <ZehMatt> but first things first 19:46:01 <Wolf01> andythenorth: https://thelegocarblog.com/2018/04/24/technic-bugatti-chiron-picture-special/ 19:46:08 <Wolf01> peter1138: https://gist.github.com/Wolfolo/5ca23e921e64dee02dd058d2169e91ac 19:46:20 <Wolf01> Don't mix links 19:46:21 <Wolf01> :D 19:46:26 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 19:49:13 <andythenorth> Wolf01: think it's better or worse than the TLG official one? o_O 19:50:01 <Wolf01> Better for sure, the official one will have aesthetics > functionality 19:51:26 <Wolf01> I'll wait a month to see how EuroBricks specialists destroy the official one, then I'll decide if it's worth the purchase 19:52:30 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:54:53 *** adikt has joined #openttd 19:55:36 *** k_ has joined #openttd 20:00:39 *** adikt has quit IRC 20:00:49 *** k_ is now known as adikt 20:09:40 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:14:17 <peter1138> Hmm, I see. 20:16:31 <Wolf01> I tried building and removing road/tram, building and removing road/tram stations, depots, bridges, tunnels, and all the combinations of them, to me it seem to work 20:17:32 <Wolf01> I also already fixed some indentations on comments because VS loves to remove trailing spaces but I didn't update the patch as I already closed the CLI 20:17:51 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:17:52 <peter1138> InvalidateRect() leads to WM_PAINT. So every time it calls InvalidateRect() it repaints immediately. 20:18:10 <peter1138> No queuing of dirty rects. 20:19:23 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe not. 20:22:36 <andythenorth> Wolf01: stop worrying about code style, it's literally a button in your editor 20:22:41 <peter1138> Nope, not the case at all. 20:22:42 * andythenorth is being a bad person 20:22:54 <Wolf01> I would love to have resharper 20:23:01 <Wolf01> But it costs a bit 20:23:52 <Wolf01> I was too much used to PHPStorm code styling 20:25:08 <Wolf01> I never found something which can challenge that for VS, only some plugins which seem to work on 50% of the cases... and resharper (made from the same guys of PHPStorm) 20:27:02 <andythenorth> "here am I sitting in a tin can" 20:27:06 <andythenorth> it's Bowie time 20:27:22 <Wolf01> +1 20:27:55 <peter1138> 3 is the magic number 20:28:33 <andythenorth> "I am the one and only" 20:28:37 <andythenorth> "nobody I'd rather be" 20:28:39 <andythenorth> not Bowie 20:30:45 *** synchris has quit IRC 20:34:06 <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY27JurC1Y0 <-- on the topic of bowie 20:38:39 <andythenorth> hmm 20:38:42 <andythenorth> spookie timing 20:38:48 <andythenorth> literally Life On Mars is playing right now 20:39:46 *** adikt has quit IRC 20:42:13 <andythenorth> this is not new, but eh, good https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLJo8vmEcus&list=PLcdcdyQQtzh8onko-cN_X9nzWl11fzcMK&index=5 20:42:49 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:47:07 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:47:45 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 20:50:38 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 21:15:08 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:27:25 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 21:36:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:39:13 <Wolf01> http://vintagefoodtrucks.com/#showcase andythenorth, supermop_work 21:39:32 <andythenorth> http://vintagefoodtrucks.com/#showcase 21:39:44 <andythenorth> stupid lack of deeplinks :P 21:39:54 <andythenorth> http://vintagefoodtrucks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/2726942370.jpg 21:40:11 <Wolf01> FAntastic 21:44:31 * peter1138 whistles innocently. 21:52:35 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:57:37 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 21:59:02 <andythenorth> these trains are hench http://www.mainlinediesels.net/images/basic/newag_311003_55.jpg 21:59:18 <andythenorth> http://www.newag.pl/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Dragon-E6ACTd.jpg 21:59:41 <peter1138> Yeah, michi_cc's opengl patch fixes my glitch graphics. 22:00:17 <andythenorth> o_O 22:00:51 <peter1138> Although it feels a bit sluggish :S 22:01:02 *** Zexaron1 has quit IRC 22:01:17 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 22:02:23 <peter1138> Maybe it' snot even using it :p 22:02:44 <andythenorth> how to draw this in 8bpp 1x then? o_O http://www.docbrown.info/docspics/zmisc07/Img_9693.jpg 22:03:09 <peter1138> Well... 22:03:18 <peter1138> Waves hands. Vaguell. 22:03:24 <peter1138> Vaguely, too. 22:03:36 <peter1138> Hmm, no, it's using opengl, it is slower than without. Odd. 22:05:14 <Wolf01> 'night 22:05:19 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:06:52 <glx> [23:44:33] peter1138 whistles innocently. <-- oups ;) 22:12:42 <peter1138> Hmm, it's only sluggish because the quick fix of moving UpdateWindows() doesn't work. 22:13:16 <peter1138> glx, twas an accident, but i didn't think it was possible anyway. 22:13:56 <glx> I think commits in master are not possible, but it's different for branches it seems 22:14:06 <peter1138> Yeah 22:15:45 <peter1138> Aww, it crashed on fullscreen mode. 22:26:06 <andythenorth> http://dieselimagegallery.com/gallery/65New/9016-1-N.jpg 22:26:18 <andythenorth> liveries :P 22:36:02 <peter1138> Oh right, that beeping was the router restarting. D'oh. 22:36:17 <peter1138> group-liveries! 22:36:21 <peter1138> Also, night night 22:38:11 <andythenorth> bye 22:38:12 <andythenorth> also 22:38:13 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:56:53 *** adikt has joined #openttd 23:00:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 23:00:58 <andythenorth> is V453000 ? 23:01:00 <andythenorth> probably not 23:01:04 <andythenorth> sleeping time 23:03:49 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 23:04:20 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:16:23 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 23:21:06 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 23:36:12 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 23:36:42 <muffindrake2> Is there a specific goal in openttd? 23:36:47 *** muffindrake2 is now known as muffindrake 23:37:09 <muffindrake> Or is the only requirement really staying outside red numbers? 23:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes? 23:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it's really a "set your own goals" game... 23:40:08 <muffindrake> I see 23:40:13 <muffindrake> I'll just stick to trains then 23:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why there are so many people with so many different playstyles 23:40:15 <ST2> muffindrake: you make the goals you want: cover all towns, all coal mines 23:40:18 <ST2> etc etc 23:40:18 <muffindrake> _trains_ everywhere 23:40:28 <glx> or use a game script with goal 23:40:42 <ST2> exactly, as glx said 23:40:50 <muffindrake> Ah, I may look into that 23:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, goal scripts are a nice way to set goals if you're struggling to find challenge in your own goals 23:43:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i hear "silicon valley" is a good one 23:43:11 <muffindrake> What's that? 23:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> never used it 23:43:37 <ST2> https://bananas.openttd.org/en/gs/ 23:43:48 <ST2> available gamescripts on bananas 23:44:00 <glx> but use ingame downloader :) 23:44:02 <ST2> each one has a different goal/play style 23:44:28 <ST2> yeah, via Check Online Content button 23:45:32 <muffindrake> does openttd perform sanity checking on those scripts? 23:45:44 <muffindrake> Given that you can run system commands with lua 23:46:00 <glx> you can't do that with squirrel 23:46:08 <ST2> lua?! this is not Factorio ^^ 23:46:14 <muffindrake> Oh no 23:46:23 <muffindrake> Yes, I was completely off-track there 23:46:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the squirrel interpreter disables some of the worst abuses you can do 23:47:09 <ST2> amen to that :) 23:47:16 <Eddi|zuHause> like commands that take a really long time and lock up the game 23:47:28 <ST2> (despite I think Eddi|zuHause have me on his ignore list xD) 23:47:44 <glx> and if something wrong happens the script is just killed 23:48:22 <ST2> and complementing glx words, throws an output of the error (file and line too)