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Log for #openttd on 15th May 2018:
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04:22:41  <supermop> yo
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05:25:28  <andythenorth> o/
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06:10:43  <peter1138> hi
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06:16:06  <andythenorth> lo peter1138
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07:59:05  <peter1138> larks
08:07:22  <LordAro> lorks
08:09:18  <peter1138> Hmm, so.
08:20:11  <LordAro> it has come to this
08:21:09  <peter1138> I implemented HasBit() etc for std::bitset.
08:22:35  * peter1138 gets rid of snap. It basically installs a partitioned ubuntu in /snap.
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08:26:36  <peter1138> It's andy
08:34:05  <andythenorth> nope
08:34:08  <andythenorth> it's a bot
08:35:39  <LordAro> beep boop
08:35:57  <peter1138> Oh!
08:36:39  <peter1138> Hmm, my jenkins is not responding :S
08:36:52  <peter1138> Ah, finally.
08:41:24  <andythenorth> CeCe Peniston?
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08:59:31  <peter1138> PENISton
09:01:40  <peter1138> LordAro, hmm, so your PR fails ;S
09:04:58  <peter1138> Doesn't seem to show an error message though.
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09:10:23  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> PENISton i'm sure nobody ever made this joke before
09:10:45  <andythenorth> it's 25 years since I first heard it ;)
09:11:50  <peter1138> I have the best jokes.
09:12:02  <andythenorth> @seen pikka
09:12:02  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 0 hours, 55 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Pikka> not much sup... heading out in a minute
09:12:05  <peter1138> Also, make regression shows that I broke AIs.
09:13:47  * andythenorth ponders 'fund random industry' button
09:13:52  <andythenorth> for when there's too much money
09:14:03  <andythenorth> or I could just click the fund menu with my eyes shut :P
09:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> throw dice?
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09:50:24  <LordAro> peter1138: yeah, i'm not entirely sure what i broke
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09:55:20  <peter1138> Dunno, but it highlighted that I hadn't catered for the AI when changing command bit packing.
09:55:58  <peter1138> Maybe we should have accessors for DoCommand instead of calling it directly.
09:56:23  <peter1138> I should finish other stuff first :p
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09:57:09  <Eddi|zuHause> moar indirection!
10:04:27  <peter1138> Ish. Compiler would most likely optimise it away.
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10:48:41  <andythenorth> do I need giant boats?
11:00:05  <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
11:01:33  <andythenorth> currently they top out at 720t
11:01:58  <andythenorth> FIRS has industries at 1500t / month
11:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that's still only 2 ships per month
11:03:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and there's no space restriction on ships
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11:07:37  <peter1138> Yet :)
11:08:19  <andythenorth> anything bigger doesn't fit in canals
11:08:25  <andythenorth> or throws out the relative scale
11:10:03  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Yet :) <-- as we discuss that for about 10 years already...
11:12:29  <peter1138> It's a very long yet.
11:13:37  <andythenorth> I learnt to think about 5 years as 'not very long' :P
11:14:14  <andythenorth> min. time to get anything done in software is about 1 year
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11:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> well, anything that is not done in 10 minutes
11:25:18  <Eddi|zuHause> (+ 30 minutes waiting for the computer to be ready to take your input)
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13:02:19  <peter1138> LordAro, how did you test PR 6781? OpenTTD segfaults on start for me.
13:02:41  <LordAro> interesting
13:02:44  <LordAro> pretty sure it ran for me
13:03:44  <peter1138> It segfaults before it gets to main()
13:04:55  <peter1138> strlen is wrong, because those are all compiletime, not runtime.
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13:19:59  <LordAro> except the ones that are not
13:20:15  <LordAro> which is what the warning was about (mostly baseset::ini_set
13:20:20  <LordAro> )
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13:47:14  <peter1138> LordAro, our saveload code checks that lengthof is the size of a pointer.
13:47:33  <peter1138> lengthof is defined, it's just not the runtime string length.
13:48:11  <LordAro> hrm
13:48:40  <LordAro> so OTTD performs the check the compiler is warning about and acts accordingly?
13:50:40  <peter1138> I guess.
13:50:51  <peter1138> I don't have that version to test :p
13:51:03  <peter1138> I don't know what your compiler is warning about.
13:51:09  <peter1138> We define lengthof ourselves in stdafx
13:51:13  <LordAro> yeah
13:51:20  <peter1138> Maybe it's being "helpful" and overriding it?
13:51:21  <LordAro> lemme find the output
13:51:37  <peter1138> sizeof(x) / sizeof(x[0])
13:51:45  <LordAro> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/puwxwq4az?/puwxwq4az
13:52:00  <LordAro> yeah, it's warning about dividing by sizeof of pointer type
13:52:21  <LordAro> (line 500ish)
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13:57:14  <peter1138> The correct solution may just be sizeof() instead of lengthof()
13:57:46  <peter1138> sizeof/lengthof is the same for strings, because each element is only a byte anyway.
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13:59:18  <LordAro> unless it's a pointer type instead of an array type
13:59:19  <peter1138> LordAro, https://gist.github.com/PeterN/bcd30b9b68c3fe105eb157c874a1e146
13:59:20  <LordAro> which is the issue here
14:01:28  <peter1138> Try with sizeof instead of lengthof in the same places.
14:01:32  <peter1138> Should be fine.
14:02:20  <peter1138> But yeah, this is not runtime, hence strlen will not work.
14:02:45  <SpComb> this sounds like a fun discussion
14:03:15  <peter1138> And wouldn't work on loading, because the strlen of the current value is not relevant.
14:03:36  <LordAro> indeed so
14:03:47  <LordAro> but i'm not convinced sizeof/lengthof is the correct solution either
14:04:34  <peter1138> Well, this is something that has worked since forever.
14:05:40  <LordAro> i'd want to look at this "saveload code checks that lengthof is the size of a pointer" bit
14:06:46  <LordAro> i'll look later this evening
14:06:50  <peter1138> return sld->size == sizeof(void *) || sld->size == sld->length;
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14:10:48  <peter1138> Also, SLE_VAR_STR is for pointers
14:11:01  <peter1138> SLE_VAR_STRB is for arrays
14:11:51  <peter1138> So basically the code knows. lengthof/sizeof are interchangeable here except for your new warning.
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14:22:23  <LordAro> mm
14:22:33  <LordAro> need to reevaluate anyway
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15:02:02  <peter1138> He's back.
15:03:19  <andythenorth> yes he's back
15:03:23  <andythenorth> back again
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15:23:24  <Eddi|zuHause> shady's back
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18:24:19  <andythenorth> hmm
18:24:29  <andythenorth> Iron Horse is a lot of trains to draw :P
18:24:54  <andythenorth> much regret :)
18:25:47  <frosch123> how many people would notice when the graphics are the same once the train leaves the depot?
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18:37:00  <V453000> LOL
18:37:04  <V453000> :D
18:37:13  <V453000> proper grafix idea frosch123
18:57:18  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: a value less than "all" but more than "none"
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19:13:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: in the  / \ views, people wouldn't notice
19:13:32  <andythenorth> and definitely not the | view
19:13:43  <frosch123> so you are done?
19:13:52  <andythenorth> horse is deceptively playable, because I'm drawing it over Horse 1 sprites :P
19:14:08  <frosch123> you already have the --- sprites
19:14:08  <andythenorth> if I fixed all the broken offsets, nobody might ever notice :P
19:14:20  <andythenorth> there was some grf with alignment vehicles?
19:14:29  <frosch123> if you wait for people to notice you also get feedback which engines are used :p
19:14:43  <andythenorth> is there any chance we could (a) find out why the sprite aligner is broken and (b) fix it?
19:14:46  <frosch123> there is debugveh on bananas
19:15:02  <andythenorth> the numbers sprite aligner displays have no obvious connection to those in the grf
19:15:17  <frosch123> remove the "-c" option from nml
19:15:19  <Eddi|zuHause> that's how modern game development works? you work around the biggest bugs and then ship it, hoping nobody notices the smaller ones?
19:15:39  <frosch123> no cropping, bigger grf, same offsets
19:15:54  <andythenorth> frosch123: can I do that permanently?  Or do I have to piss around with a makefile arg? :)
19:16:38  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's not meant for "permanent", just debugging purposes
19:16:55  <andythenorth> so I have to manually edit the makefile every time? o_O
19:17:08  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and you can just "alias nmlc=nmlc -c" or something
19:17:29  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly with some ''
19:18:53  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: how would that work?
19:19:01  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea
19:19:42  <andythenorth> -c takes 6.1MB down to 5.2MB
19:19:44  <frosch123> andythenorth: don't you already have a variable for the fork bomb?
19:19:46  <andythenorth> so not critical, but worth it
19:19:53  <andythenorth> I have a var for the fork bomb yes
19:19:57  <Eddi|zuHause> another option is if the makefile is prepared with an "NMLCARGS" variable, you can do "NMLCARGS=-c make"
19:20:10  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that is the wrong way around
19:20:25  <andythenorth> or I just do this once, fix the offsets, restore -c I guess
19:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> both should work?
19:20:26  <frosch123> you want a variable to disable "-c", not to enable it
19:20:39  <Eddi|zuHause> ah
19:20:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah
19:20:55  <andythenorth> or I have 'make bundle_tar' use -c
19:21:02  <andythenorth> and plain 'make' doesn't
19:22:15  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: maybe there should be a "--no-crop" option?
19:22:26  <andythenorth> I thought there was? o_O
19:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that overrides a "-c" option
19:29:34  <andythenorth> so I removed -c but the offsets are still odd
19:29:38  * andythenorth investigates
19:29:50  <frosch123> are they multiplied by 4?
19:30:10  <frosch123> i don't remember whether we display 1x or 4x offsets or both or depending on zoom level
19:30:23  <frosch123> maybe it's also the gui zoom setting
19:33:59  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9045/offsets_eh.png
19:34:04  <andythenorth> oh yes
19:34:13  <andythenorth> you concluded same, they're multiplied by 4
19:34:24  * andythenorth was busy making screenshots :P
19:34:44  <andythenorth> UI zoom level doesn't seem to affect them
19:35:54  <frosch123> ok, so we only show 4x. i guess you closed some feature requests about showing 1x offsets :p
19:36:21  <andythenorth> 'oops'
19:36:44  <andythenorth> fix, or I just divide by 4?
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19:39:44  <peter1138> Hmm
19:40:57  <peter1138> Is the sprite aligner wrong then?
19:41:00  <V453000> haha offset bullshit
19:41:41  <frosch123> peter1138: it's fine if you do 4x sprites :)
19:41:47  <frosch123> but 1x people are confused
19:41:48  <peter1138> As everyone should!
19:42:13  <peter1138> Judging by that bounding box, those offsets are wrong anyway.
19:42:16  <V453000> GG :D
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19:45:27  <andythenorth> they are wrong :P
19:45:43  <andythenorth> if they were right...I would be talking about something interesting
19:45:52  <andythenorth> like how many railtypes we can have
19:52:28  <peter1138> 3
19:53:43  <frosch123> there should be an option to pick which 3 railtypes to use: if you want elrail you can choose to merge monorail into maglev or maglev into monorail
19:54:14  <peter1138> :)
19:54:54  <frosch123> if i would post that on the forums, noone would understand it :)
19:55:41  <andythenorth> doesn't 3 waste half a bit? o_O
19:55:53  <andythenorth> we could use that for something else maybe? o_O
19:56:14  <peter1138> 3rd rail
19:57:12  <frosch123> andythenorth: https://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/UnifiedMaglev
19:58:29  <andythenorth> wow new things
19:58:39  <andythenorth> 10 years of playing ottd is not enough
19:58:53  <andythenorth> today I found you can ctrl-click on the station name a vehicle is heading for
19:59:08  <andythenorth> (in the main vehicle window)
19:59:44  <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Hidden :)
20:01:02  <andythenorth> boringly, I know most of them :P
20:01:06  <andythenorth> "Show vehicle load and capacity of multiple vehicles" is new to me though
20:01:36  <peter1138> Yeah we never copied that unified maglev feature from ttdpatch...
20:01:40  <frosch123> it's the unique ctrl+right click, i take full responsibility for that :)
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20:04:38  <andythenorth> that's just to troll mac users
20:04:45  <andythenorth> ctrl-click is a right click on mac os
20:06:30  <peter1138> :p
20:06:50  <frosch123> also notice that "ctrl click on engine in depot" says "reverse engine direction", not "switch livery" :p
20:07:09  <peter1138> That'll be a bug report coming in soon then.
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20:09:09  <andythenorth> failure demand
20:09:47  <andythenorth> so the patch to incremement a counter (0-15) when ctrl-clicking...
20:09:58  <peter1138> 16 reversal states?
20:10:01  <andythenorth> yes
20:10:04  <frosch123> or 32?
20:10:15  <andythenorth> A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B-A-B
20:10:26  <andythenorth> 8 liveries :P
20:10:45  <andythenorth> probably needs shift-ctrl-click to decrement? o_O
20:10:59  <frosch123> can you also long-click to morse code a specific livery number?
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20:12:01  <V453000> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
20:12:02  <frosch123> andythenorth: how about a train configuration gui similar to grf parameter gui? :p
20:12:14  <andythenorth> I like mystery clicking :P
20:12:18  <V453000> It's so good to not be the only one trying to fuck over the specs to get some greater good (tm) functionality
20:12:24  <andythenorth> it's very direct, even though you don't know what you're getting
20:12:26  <V453000> thanks andythenorth
20:12:29  <andythenorth> ctrl-clicking is fun
20:12:38  <andythenorth> picking from dropdown menus is dull :P
20:17:19  <frosch123> what if the dropdown would show the sprite? and what if the dropdown was no vertical list, but a circle?
20:17:30  <andythenorth> well
20:17:45  <andythenorth> does it include a unicorn :)
20:18:07  <andythenorth> oops I meant slug :P
20:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how about random liveries, but ctrl+click rerolls the random bits?
20:19:10  <andythenorth> hmm
20:19:15  <andythenorth> no :)
20:19:24  <andythenorth> that would be good trolling though
20:20:21  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that would simply be an UI change, instead of adding some mysterious counter thingie
20:20:41  <frosch123> the other day i wondered about improving map compression by removing all tile random bits, and instead store the number of rerandomisations
20:20:49  <Eddi|zuHause> which would involve changing vehicle storage code, GRF interface code, nfo specs and  nml implementation
20:21:19  * peter1138 tests with 255 railtypes.
20:21:26  <andythenorth> imagine the abuses a counter could be put to
20:21:27  <peter1138> std::bitset testing :p
20:22:00  * andythenorth tries to remember how bitmasks work
20:22:14  <frosch123> grf-defineable toolbar ribbons for "formatting" train appearance
20:22:14  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: rather add local storage registers for vehicles
20:22:38  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's more appealing to do something that isn't proper
20:22:47  <andythenorth> it's a better meta-game
20:23:04  <andythenorth> like html :P
20:23:17  <frosch123> andythenorth: add livery wagons
20:23:33  <frosch123> their purpose is to change the livery of the other vehicles in the chain
20:23:34  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but you can then have your counter by adding a callback that is called on ctrl+click, which reads the register, adds one, and writes the register back
20:23:48  <peter1138> toolbar ribbons! but it doesn't need a spec cos modern language
20:23:54  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yes that would work
20:24:01  <andythenorth> it's just a bit too correct
20:24:17  <andythenorth> frosch123: the liveries I did already do that :P
20:24:19  <andythenorth> kind of
20:24:19  <peter1138> I think 64k railtypes is not possible.
20:24:23  <frosch123> peter1138: did actually any software make good use of ribbons beyond office?
20:24:26  <andythenorth> such sad news peter1138
20:24:31  <andythenorth> the game will now die
20:24:37  <peter1138> Not without extending the network command interface.
20:24:44  <peter1138> frosch123, you suggest that was a good use of it?
20:25:01  <andythenorth> is the ribbbon the toolbar at the top of my Word window?
20:25:07  <frosch123> it added hierarchical hotkeys
20:25:13  <frosch123> kind of like vim :p
20:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what ribbons are in this context
20:25:27  <frosch123> andythenorth: yes
20:25:39  <andythenorth> so a ribbbon is a toolbar, but with MS marketing around it?
20:26:15  <frosch123> a ribbon is a tabbed toolbar that megers classic toolbars and dropdown menus
20:26:53  <peter1138> So std::bitset works.
20:27:22  <peter1138> I cheated and defined HasBit/SetBit/ClrBit for bitsets, instead of modifying all the code elsewhere to use 'native' calls.
20:27:28  <frosch123> are there std::bitsets in saveload code yet?
20:27:54  <peter1138> Mainly because the existing HasBit compiles fine for bitsets, though won't work properly beyond 32 bit.
20:27:57  <peter1138> No.
20:28:04  <peter1138> railtypes is never stored.
20:28:31  <frosch123> peter1138: i read using "std::begin(container)" is more modern than "container.begin()"
20:28:42  <peter1138> Although there is a left over at the moment where it's loaded because it used to be stored. It should just be a CONDNULL.
20:28:52  <peter1138> Sadly, I can't just commit a quick fix now ;(
20:28:56  <frosch123> so is "HasBit(set)" more modern than "set.HasBit()"?
20:29:19  <peter1138> Must be!
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20:57:12  <andythenorth> is bed
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21:03:05  <Eddi|zuHause> if it were python, set.HasBit() would be the same as HasBit(set)
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