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Log for #openttd on 5th June 2018:
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01:30:41  <LANJesus> Eddi|zuHause: RIP dialup users
01:30:52  <LANJesus> or satellite
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06:24:50  <peter1138> Hi
06:32:16  <andythenorth> moin
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09:01:34  <peter1138> https://www.pcgamer.com/developers-fear-for-mac-gaming-as-apple-deprecates-opengl-support/
09:02:07  <Eddi|zuHause> why would apple ever follow standards?
09:02:24  <Eddi|zuHause> like, say, usb ports
09:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> headphone plugs
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09:07:53  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: i though Safari used to be ahead of other browsers at following HTML standards at some point of time.
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09:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: that was like 10,15 years ago?
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09:16:27  <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: well within the bounds of "ever" then.
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09:31:14  <mijndert> would this mean a major rewrite for openttd?
09:31:36  <peter1138> No, we don't use it at the moment.
09:32:36  <m3henry> Sorry, I'm missing some context?
09:40:32  <m3henry> Oh I see, yeah, not an issue. It's not a surprising move my Apple, not sure if it will backfire or not.
09:40:37  <m3henry> by*
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10:04:12  <peter1138> Well, as long as it doesn't get removed.
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11:15:53  <peter1138> orudge
11:16:04  <peter1138> tt-forums.net certificate just expired
11:16:22  <andythenorth> LE
11:16:32  <andythenorth> is not 100% reliable :)
11:17:07  <peter1138> I can't even see that it is a LE cert, Firefox refuses to tell me :S
11:18:48  <peter1138> I set up nagios to monitor all my certificates for expiry.
11:18:53  <LordAro> has it been 3 months already?
11:19:33  <peter1138> Chrome at least lets you view the certificate.
11:19:48  <peter1138> Hmm, and also overrides the HSTS settings.
11:20:40  <orudge> Blargh
11:21:24  <__ln__> LE usually fails because of SELinux
11:21:35  <orudge> The certificate was renewed fine, it just doesn't seem to restart the web server correctly
11:21:45  <peter1138> My usual reason for LE failing is it's not a website :p
11:21:57  <peter1138> I still need to automate my DNS updates :S
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12:29:38  <Eddi|zuHause> orudge: nothing a hacky crontab entry can't fix :p
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13:10:12  <orudge> Eddi|zuHause: well, quite
13:10:15  <orudge> it might come to that
13:11:21  <LordAro> there's reason i just set nginx to restart every month
13:11:25  <LordAro> it's easier :p
13:11:59  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: well, it has to align with the renewal
13:12:56  <LordAro> most autorenew scripts do so a month before expiry
13:13:15  <LordAro> but if not, weekly wouldn't be awful either
13:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that makes sense
13:17:20  <peter1138> Restart it during the backup job.
13:17:49  <peter1138> My webservers get reloaded every night anyway, for log rotation purposes.
13:18:03  <peter1138> That's a standard Apache+Debian thing.
13:18:33  <LordAro> apache is unreliable at reloading certificates, i've found
13:21:12  <Eddi|zuHause> have two redundant webservers and restart each at different times :p
13:22:24  <peter1138> LordAro, it's not instant, but as you say, it's generally a month before it actually expires, so it's more than sufficient.
13:23:07  <LordAro> there's several LE autorenewers out there that can run a script (i.e. webserver reload/restart) when it autorenews
13:23:13  <andythenorth> supervisord :P
13:23:17  <LordAro> would be surprised if certbot itself can't do it
13:23:51  <mijndert> certbot -q renew --renew-hook "service nginx reload"
13:23:57  <andythenorth> seems we use a cron job to renew LE and restart apache when needed
13:24:03  <LordAro> see, told you
13:24:03  <LordAro> :p
13:24:05  <andythenorth> that works on a fleet size of about 150 :P
13:24:30  <andythenorth> occasionally we hit a LE throttle limit if a lot of certs renew at once
13:25:08  <Eddi|zuHause> add a random delay to each?
13:25:27  <andythenorth> we're staggering them
13:25:32  <andythenorth> afaik
13:25:41  <andythenorth> it's an artefact of switching a lot over at once
13:25:53  <andythenorth> from thawte or whatever
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13:27:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a talk once about people developing a torrent tracker, and they had to put a random into the return interval
13:27:18  <Eddi|zuHause> to spread out waves, e.g. after failures
13:28:04  <Eddi|zuHause> because as soon as they get back on, a huge chunk of requests come at once. and if you give them the same interval, they continue to come back at once
13:28:15  <Eddi|zuHause> if you add some randomness, that evens out after a while
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17:01:18  <andythenorth> well
17:01:56  <LordAro> no.
17:02:15  <andythenorth> exactly
17:02:21  <andythenorth> also bbl
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17:06:27  <Wolf01> o/
17:07:40  <Alberth> o/
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17:37:31  <Wolf01> o/
17:37:44  <andythenorth> lo
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17:42:11  <andythenorth> the scale is wrong http://www.railpictures.net/photo/660170/
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18:12:39  <andythenorth> so what happened on openttd github today? o_O
18:12:51  <andythenorth> or microgit as we have to call it now :)
18:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause> gitlive?
18:13:46  <nielsm> git 365
18:13:59  <Eddi|zuHause> git for windows live
18:19:49  <andythenorth> binghub
18:20:54  <andythenorth> did we successfully increase the PR count? o_O
18:22:24  * andythenorth tries to find project with most open PRs
18:22:29  <andythenorth> this didn't have the answer https://blog.jessfraz.com/post/analyzing-github-pull-request-data-with-big-query/
18:49:34  <TrueBrain> peter1138: ship that dropping of DirectX Music shit already :P
18:51:03  <nielsm> directmusic isn't being dropped, it's already been replaced with a rewrite that doesn't depend on a 10 year old directx sdk
18:51:20  <nielsm> (and also works on 64 bit builds)
18:52:54  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: ship NRT already :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6811
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19:34:53  <michi_cc> TrueBrain: You don't need any DirectX part anymore that isn't part of the standard Windows SDK.
19:39:53  <nielsm> so anyway, what's my dosmusic patch waiting for? :(
19:40:28  <nielsm> (the other month+ old PRs could also do with some kind of update I think)
19:40:44  <michi_cc> LordAro: You requested changes to 6775 ^^^
19:41:17  <nielsm> I addressed everything
19:41:27  <nielsm> except for BeOS still being supported :P
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19:44:32  <LordAro> ono
19:45:36  <LordAro> happy?
19:45:51  <michi_cc> frosch123: You last commented on 6751 and 6754 with some change wishes. If you feel them required, you should probably 'request changes' (sends a clear signal to the author) or we either merge or close them.
19:46:05  * nielsm performs a dance to the TTO title tune
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19:56:37  <nielsm> hmm I think I should start over with the remaining music changes I made, possibly even a major overhaul of the logic in music_gui.cpp (which is somewhat convoluted right now)
19:56:58  <nielsm> (might even end up with support for mixing multiple music sets into a single playlist, who knows)
19:57:25  <michi_cc> nielsm: src\music\midifile.cpp(995): warning C4267: "Initialisierung": Konvertierung von "size_t" nach "uint32", Datenverlust möglich
19:57:52  <michi_cc> Not really important at all, but a cast would remove one message :)
19:58:15  <nielsm> oh right, I never make 64 bit builds
19:58:31  <nielsm> (because the first time I tried it crashed the compiler, although I actually know I can make them now)
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20:02:59  <LordAro> nielsm: nice.
20:06:19  <frosch123> LordAro: what to do with 6781?
20:07:26  <frosch123> the CompanyProperties change looks non-trivial at best
20:07:59  <frosch123> also there is a replacement in company_cmd from 0 to INVALID_TILE
20:08:10  <frosch123> can you remove the non-trivial changes?
20:09:02  <frosch123> also, wasn't there an analysis result of the unoptimised blitter code with std::copy?
20:09:31  <LordAro> bleh, i guess i could
20:09:39  <LordAro> not sure it would be correct though :p
20:10:08  <LordAro> i didn't do any actual metrics, but i didn't notice any difference with basic scrolling around
20:10:27  <frosch123> wasn't there some disassembly?
20:10:46  <nielsm> the purpose of the unoptimized blitter is to be "obviously correct" I assume?
20:10:57  <nielsm> then the speed of it shouldn't really be a concern imho
20:11:02  <LordAro> godbolt demonstrated that stdcopy didn't actually compild quite as neatly as memcpy
20:11:15  <LordAro> in a completely unoptimised build
20:11:24  <LordAro> (am in pub, apologise for typos)
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20:23:35  <michi_cc> nielsm: If you push an update for that warning I'll merge your PR (unless somebody has objections, but then he should speak or be silent forever :)
20:24:17  <Wolf01> Like a marriage
20:24:46  <andythenorth> that is not marriage as I know it :P
20:24:52  <andythenorth> oh marriage ceremony I see :P
20:25:18  <andythenorth> actual marriage is more like 'has objections and voices them for years afterwards'
20:27:32  <frosch123> marriage/wedding is just as complicated as save/safe or proof/prove
20:28:09  <nielsm> michi_cc I'll just make it a new commit on top, that's fine right? :)
20:28:19  <nielsm> instead of rebasing everything again
20:28:19  <andythenorth> did I post the roofs/rooves thread?
20:28:29  <andythenorth> it's everything wrong with the internet
20:28:50  <andythenorth> I think I posted already, but http://grammarist.com/usage/roofs-rooves/
20:28:58  <andythenorth> comments => evening lost :P
20:28:59  <Wolf01> And don't forget dwarfs/dwarves
20:29:06  <LordAro> ..rooves?
20:29:11  <LordAro> burn them
20:30:23  <LordAro> Wolf01: dorfs
20:30:31  <michi_cc> nielsm: I'm not going to squash, so whatever you do will be visible for all eternity.
20:31:04  <Wolf01> And fish/ghoti
20:31:14  <frosch123> LordAro: the half-life of irregular verbs caled with the square root of usage frequency
20:31:21  <frosch123> ^^ one of my favorite quotes
20:31:31  <frosch123> *scales
20:33:22  <nielsm> michi_cc: there
20:38:05  <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Any chance you can run PR#6798 through whatever you intend the Windows compile to be?
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21:01:03  <Wolf01> 'night
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