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Log for #openttd on 18th June 2018:
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08:12:53  <peter1138> morning
08:58:50  <peter1138> or somesuch
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10:31:37  <LordAro> peter1138: i don't believe you
10:31:40  <LordAro> also zzzzz
10:31:57  <peter1138> Isn't it just.
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12:03:22  <peter1138> Maybe ships should be like triremes in Civilization, don't stray too far else it'll get lost at sea. CPU hog solved.
12:09:20  <andythenorth> 'sank'
12:09:43  <andythenorth> do it!
12:11:32  <LordAro> :D
12:12:04  <LordAro> YASPF
12:13:02  <peter1138> idspispopd
12:15:45  <andythenorth> YSHSPF
12:16:15  <andythenorth> so also
12:16:23  <andythenorth> what do people read on the internet?
12:17:46  <debdog> irc chats?
12:18:49  <peter1138> The internet is write-only.
12:19:03  <peter1138> load average: 47.90, 49.36, 46.43
12:19:05  <andythenorth> probably quote of the day
12:19:07  <peter1138> That's less than optimal.
12:19:26  <andythenorth> for the internet? :o
12:19:55  <peter1138> It's my internet gateway here, so kind of?
12:23:54  <peter1138> I might reboot it and wander off to the co-op.
12:24:32  <andythenorth> reboot the co-op and wander off the internet
12:24:40  <peter1138> Boring.
12:25:29  <peter1138> load average: 3.25, 29.93, 40.18
12:25:30  <peter1138> Hmm, well.
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13:37:59  <supermop_work> cant figure out how to really marshal trains together with shunting
13:38:41  <supermop_work> i mean it kind of works but it is quite clumsy
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13:44:36  <supermop_work> long train enters a long platform from the south, and leaves half the wagons there - the train will have to leave to the north and the left rake will be at the souther end
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13:45:49  <supermop_work> but then if a shunter brings more wagons from the south to couple on, the new train will be sticking out the platform
13:46:39  <FLHerne> Have them come from the north instead?
13:46:54  <FLHerne> Or couple, then push the whole rake into the platform, but that would be ugly
13:47:18  <FLHerne> More-generally, why would you want to do that in particular?
13:47:37  <supermop_work> to work around, you need either platforms like 1.5-2x the length of the full train, or such complex running around and head shunts that you use up so much time you have no savings from decoupling
13:47:58  <FLHerne> Given the ability to divide trains, I think I'd mostly want to shorten trains going in one direction, and then add those carriages onto the return services
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13:49:00  <FLHerne> In which case you just have a shunter come in from the north, pull the carriages into a siding, then propel them onto the north end of the next southbound service
13:49:05  <supermop_work> FLHerne: if you are bring extra wagons from the north, the full train will have to leave to the north, which is unlikely if it came from the south as a full train to begin with
13:49:32  <supermop_work> also the shunting patch doesn't support pushing yet
13:49:36  <supermop_work> which would help a lot
13:49:40  <FLHerne> No, the train engine stays on the south end
13:49:52  <FLHerne> Wait, there's a real patch for this?! :o
13:49:57  <supermop_work> currently it works well for head shunts/ running round a rake
13:50:01  <FLHerne> Clearly I missed something
13:50:17  <supermop_work> and works ok for splitting trains,
13:50:27  <supermop_work> but doesn't work well for recombining them
13:51:27  <supermop_work> but for very long trains/ or where you have many rakes of wagons loading and want only one locomotive to pull them once full
13:52:18  <supermop_work> you end up loosing so much time in running around and space from sidings, that you end up worse off than if every train had it's own locomotive like in trunk
13:52:35  <supermop_work> mostly it is just cute to watch them running about
13:54:49  <FLHerne> Yes
13:55:12  <supermop_work> platform end] [pbs sig>] [turnout for siding] [<pbs sig] [siding w/waypoint]
13:55:13  <FLHerne> Given OTTD's economics and weird scale, any of this complexity only makes sense for 'realism' or just fun
13:55:32  <supermop_work> is 4 tiles for one platform, 3 if you skip the pbs on the siding
13:55:46  <FLHerne> Since the majority of trainsets have passed that point already, I'm not sure that's a real problem
13:56:10  <supermop_work> the more platforms or entry/exit tracks you add, the longer that throat has to be
13:56:36  <FLHerne> Especially since the 'optimal' way to play OTTD seems to be airports at opposed corners of the map and spam as many planes as one can build
13:56:52  <FLHerne> Which patch is this?
13:57:17  <FLHerne> I hadn't heard of it at all; not reading the forums recently
13:57:32  <supermop_work> and the longer the train, the longer it takes a locomotive to run from the headshunt back to the siding at the station throat
13:57:48  <supermop_work> blocking a track in the process
13:58:08  <supermop_work> decoupling patch in the first page of development section
13:59:06  <supermop_work> currently id doesn't support multiple units, which would be the easiest for splitting passenger trains
13:59:20  <FLHerne> http://www.flherne.uk/files/train_shortening.png is what I wanted, but won't work without propelling
13:59:56  <FLHerne> Wow, I need to see what can be done with that
14:00:47  <supermop_work> i think a low speed shunting operation could be added, but its just one guy working on it right now
14:02:52  <andythenorth> isn't shunting just for eye candy?
14:02:55  <andythenorth> and changing engine
14:03:05  <andythenorth> I didn't try it, and I've bailed out of forums
14:03:15  <andythenorth> I watched the video, looked nice
14:05:24  <peter1138> It's kinda pointless micromanagement.
14:05:26  <peter1138> -kinda
14:05:50  <peter1138> Remember when we had patches to manually control trains? Wot larks.
14:06:10  <peter1138> (It was only ever trains, nobody seems interested in manually controlling road vehicles, ships or planes...)
14:08:02  <LordAro> isn't pointless micromanagement the point?
14:08:21  <peter1138> Likely.
14:13:17  <andythenorth> isn't the point to get as many nice PRs done as we can? :P
14:13:25  <peter1138> Apparently not!
14:13:49  <andythenorth> be interesting to compare git commits last 3 months, compared to same period previous years
14:13:58  <andythenorth> someone make a chart :P
14:14:23  <andythenorth> so did you all quit forums a long time before me?
14:14:40  <FLHerne> I didn't intentionally quit, I just stopped reading them :P
14:14:57  <andythenorth> I only just realised how bad they are
14:15:02  <FLHerne> (mostly because I hardly played OTTD for a couple of years)
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14:19:35  <Alberth> hi hi
14:20:03  <LordAro> what FLHerne said
14:21:05  <supermop_work> andythenorth: shunting is for giving life to cute little 08s
14:21:38  <andythenorth> ok
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14:32:15  <supermop_work> that's all i ask of it
14:32:45  <supermop_work> today it is forecast to be 97 sausages
14:36:43  <Arveen> that's almost 100 sausages
14:39:22  <Arveen> are 100 sausages = 1 kiloSausage ?
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14:42:06  <Rubidium> isn't is common knowledge that it'd be a hectosausage?
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15:17:25  <supermop_work> maybe its a logarithmic scale
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15:31:54  <ANIKHTOS> hello to all have a nice day
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15:55:28  <LANJesus> what's that in Freedom?
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16:04:37  <Flygon> Freedom?
16:04:50  <Flygon> LANJesus, in this room, we measure our sausages in Bunnings Snags.
16:05:18  <LANJesus> what no smoots?
16:05:30  <Flygon> Only Bunnings Snags.
16:05:36  <LANJesus> shucks
16:05:39  <Flygon> Shhiiit. I so want a Bunnings Snag right now.
16:05:44  <Flygon> But it's 2:05AM and they're closed atm.
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16:24:53  <nielsm> http://0x0.st/sLEP.png  getting slightly more interesting...
16:25:56  <andythenorth> o_O
16:37:12  <peter1138> nielsm, try it with this savegame... https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1204027#p1204027
16:39:20  <planetmaker_> I can offer a few crazy games :P https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Hall_of_Fame
16:39:23  <nielsm> would I have to remove that 5k limit myself too, then? :)
16:40:36  <nielsm> just making a release build first, don't think a debug build is controllable here ;)
16:42:26  <nielsm> grr those ottdc saves need newgrfs not on bananas
16:45:36  <nielsm> ah one loaded
16:45:36  <nielsm> http://0x0.st/sLEM.png
16:45:55  <Alberth> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/GRF  they have a grfpack
16:46:13  <planetmaker_> https://wiki.openttdcoop.org/GRF
16:46:19  <nielsm> legend: Y axis subdivisions are 10 ms intervals, X axis subdivision is 1 second intervals
16:46:32  <planetmaker_> with those it should be able to load all. Not always exactly matching, but at least compatible
16:48:20  <nielsm> http://0x0.st/sLEu.mp4
16:50:41  <nielsm> TrueBrain, I think this is closer to what you're looking for?
16:53:17  <Alberth> nice movie :)
16:53:32  <Alberth> not sure the numbers are useful, it's so fast, you can't even read it
16:54:02  <Alberth> especially the red one, as it doesn't have a lot of contrast
16:54:57  <nielsm> the video encoding makes red really bad, it's much more readable on the actual screen
16:55:03  <Alberth> ok
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16:58:47  <nielsm> hmm how do plurals in the strings work again...
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17:03:34  <LordAro> mostly mahgic
17:03:55  <Alberth> passenger{P "" s}
17:06:00  <peter1138> nielsm, nah, that one I posted loads without changes.
17:06:54  <peter1138> That video highlights that maybe some stuff could be spread out better.
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17:18:08  <peter1138> I still find the graphs weird as they are not time-based.
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17:18:32  <peter1138> ms used per second might be a more meaningful metric.
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17:18:57  <nielsm> "not time based"?
17:19:16  <nielsm> each data point graphed is literally how much time spent inside each routine
17:19:28  <peter1138> Yes, but the axis is not time.
17:19:47  <peter1138> X-axis.
17:19:51  <nielsm> it is
17:19:52  <nielsm> now
17:19:55  <peter1138> Hmm.
17:20:01  <nielsm> I'm adding labels atm
17:20:05  <peter1138> Did I pull too early? :p
17:20:30  <nielsm> yeah I haven't pushed this yes
17:20:31  <nielsm> yet
17:20:43  <Wolf01> Oh, nice you are playing with graphs too :D
17:22:24  <Wolf01> BTW, I'm used with plotting in the other direction
17:22:49  <nielsm> lol now this is horrible
17:23:08  <nielsm> tried that same ottdc save I took video with before, but in a debug build
17:23:31  <nielsm> http://0x0.st/sLEW.png
17:23:31  <Wolf01> Debug kills performance a lot :P
17:23:51  <nielsm> game loop times are so bad they are outside the graphing range
17:24:28  <Wolf01> Are you sure you can't flip the graphs horizontally?
17:24:42  <nielsm> def. possible
17:24:59  <Wolf01> Because with labels now I find it really weird
17:26:16  <ANIKHTOS> thats a big station
17:26:58  <nielsm> http://0x0.st/sLEy.mp4
17:27:14  <nielsm> from a much smaller save of my own ;)
17:27:56  <Wolf01> Nice
17:28:55  <nielsm> actually, drawing the graphs the other direction will be a bit annoying, since I don't get free clipping on the far end
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17:33:35  <nielsm> http://0x0.st/sLEY.mp4
17:33:38  <nielsm> reversed!
17:34:32  <Wolf01> Yeah, better, now the time flows in the right direction :P
17:36:09  <Alberth> phew :)
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17:36:50  <nielsm> noooo why must you rebuild everything just because I modified the text of two strings in english.txt
17:37:01  <nielsm> I didn't add or remove any of the string names!
17:37:02  <Wolf01> Ahaah
17:37:03  <LANJesus> because BUILD SYSTEM.
17:37:26  <LANJesus> is it probably just relinking everything?
17:37:36  <LANJesus> or does the system not use caching
17:37:40  <nielsm> nope, really rebuilding every single .cpp files including strings.h
17:37:45  <LANJesus> FUN
17:37:46  <nielsm> it detects the file has changed
17:38:42  <Wolf01> Next patch: build system should detect the addition/deletion of strings to rebuild
17:38:50  <nielsm> yeah need to make it handle RTL languages correctly... http://0x0.st/sLEI.png
17:40:09  <LordAro> it's probably actually just rebuilding the files that pull in strings.h
17:40:14  <nielsm> and the HUEG font of japanese makes it sad http://0x0.st/sLEl.png
17:40:18  <LordAro> which is basically all of them anyway
17:40:22  <LANJesus> LordAro: isn't that just about all of them? heh yeah.
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17:42:16  <nielsm> peter1138, pushed the improved graphs now :)
17:44:02  <nielsm> bbl, food
17:45:07  <ANIKHTOS> okey i mamke a varible in the settign and now i am tryign to access it  i place it in the GameCreationSettings
17:45:28  <ANIKHTOS> GameCreationSettings 	*_slowD2 = &GameCreationSettings ;
17:45:38  <ANIKHTOS> will this get me there or not??
17:46:01  <LordAro> not even slightly
17:46:39  <ANIKHTOS> i need to create a pointer
17:46:49  <ANIKHTOS> but i fail at creatign it coreclty
17:49:26  <ANIKHTOS> http://www.learncpp.com/cpp-tutorial/612-member-selection-with-pointers-and-references/ i try to follow the instructions from the lessons there
17:49:34  <ANIKHTOS> is nto the case i am trying to do??
17:49:54  <ANIKHTOS> access something in the GameCreationSettings struct??
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17:56:17  <ANIKHTOS> lordare can you give me a hint?? how i can do it??
17:56:22  <Alberth> you may want to read about the difference between classes/structs and instances of them (ie objects)
17:57:32  <Alberth>   &GameCreationSettings   has no meaning to me
17:57:40  <Alberth> the address of a type???
17:59:19  <ANIKHTOS> well accordign to the turorial it shoudl give the memory adress
17:59:56  <Alberth> a type has no memory address
18:01:11  <Alberth> int i;    &int doesn't exist,   &i does
18:01:47  <ANIKHTOS> we have the struct CameCreationSettings
18:01:56  <ANIKHTOS> which has members
18:02:06  <ANIKHTOS> the members do have memory address right??
18:02:27  <Alberth> no, not in a type, you have to make an instance of the struct
18:02:45  <Alberth> that instance has an address, and thus the members in the instance have it too
18:03:09  <ANIKHTOS> okey so first i need to make an instanc eof gamecreationsettings
18:03:21  <ANIKHTOS> and then i can mke the pointer to link to my variable??
18:03:41  <Alberth> what variable do you want to link to?
18:04:23  <Alberth> any reason why   instance.member   wouldn't work?
18:06:03  <ANIKHTOS> well you seid look the code and see how other done it and the example i found was with a pointer
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18:10:25  <Alberth> "other code did it" isn't a terribly convincing reason :)
18:11:20  <Alberth> "why do you shoot people?"  "oh, he does it too"  :D
18:14:00  <ANIKHTOS> lol
18:14:18  <ANIKHTOS> i look what other do so i can be somehow consistent in the syle of coding
18:14:34  <ANIKHTOS> and also spped up the learning
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18:16:18  <Wolf01> Quak
18:16:25  <andythenorth> lo
18:17:12  <frosch123> moo
18:18:33  <ANIKHTOS> okey so i start form here GameCreationSettings 	_slowD2;
18:18:54  <ANIKHTOS> crete a member called _slowD2
18:19:21  <LANJesus> most coding style things i do is cargo cult, whatever cult i'm in...
18:21:13  <ANIKHTOS> well lanjesus you are your own cult the cult of lan :P
18:21:46  <LANJesus> i was agreeing with you, somewhat. at least for coding style. now language usage is a different thing
18:22:26  <Wolf01> Until you stay away from the machine cult you are safe ;)
18:22:30  <ANIKHTOS> i know lanjesus
18:22:39  <Wolf01> *while
18:22:44  <ANIKHTOS> too many compile errors i am getting frustrated
18:29:41  <Alberth> you create a variable, an instance of the structure
18:30:38  <Alberth> and yes, c++ assumes you know what you're doing, it's not helpful or trying to make things simple
18:31:09  <Alberth> and openttd is not a simple program
18:33:42  <Cthulhux> c++ is klingon for "i can't do c".
18:33:56  <ANIKHTOS> GameCreationSettings _slowD2; this will create  an instance??
18:37:31  <Alberth> it does, it creates a variable _slowD2 with enough room for holding all data in GameCreatinSettings
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18:38:05  <Alberth> Cthulhux: nah, using c for shooting oneself in the foot was too easy to avoid :p
18:47:15  <ANIKHTOS> _slowD2.slow now has a value?? a default value??
18:48:31  <ANIKHTOS> slow is what i add in the stric of the GameCreationSettings
18:49:56  <Alberth> unless you have added a constructor that initializes the variable, it has a random value
18:50:22  <Alberth> ie whatever was in that memory at the time the variable was created
18:55:19  <ANIKHTOS> i am doign cyrcles i get closer but at same type i am still far away
18:56:16  <nielsm> I think you're overcomplicating things because you're misunderstanding what's required
18:56:45  <nielsm> in my recent experimental cargotiles patch I add two settings
18:56:57  <nielsm> here's the change to settings.ini where they are added: https://github.com/nielsmh/OpenTTD/commit/acb32bc7a205ac39d020d6f8322f890f9b33f994#diff-19b1c3626fa2038c0f1859ac4c419e98
18:57:25  <nielsm> the change where they're added to an existing struct appropriate to their purpose: https://github.com/nielsmh/OpenTTD/commit/acb32bc7a205ac39d020d6f8322f890f9b33f994#diff-d7d1ade744179436eed3eb4c7959fdca
18:57:38  <LANJesus> and openttd's code is r'lyehian for "omg why did we port this from x86 machine code"
18:57:40  <nielsm> the change where they're added to the settings GUI: https://github.com/nielsmh/OpenTTD/commit/acb32bc7a205ac39d020d6f8322f890f9b33f994#diff-fd1e5ba72828151446219b06e78d869e
18:58:01  <LordAro> LANJesus: most of it isn't quite that bad :p
18:58:06  <nielsm> the change where they get values assigned if the savegame is being loaded from an old version: https://github.com/nielsmh/OpenTTD/commit/acb32bc7a205ac39d020d6f8322f890f9b33f994#diff-5d7621e6bc0894916f1492a729fc7ec9
18:58:13  <LANJesus> LordAro: I'VE SEENT THINGS I CAN'T UNSEENT
18:58:29  <LordAro> not anymore, anyway
18:58:41  <nielsm> and an example of a line using one of the new settings: https://github.com/nielsmh/OpenTTD/commit/acb32bc7a205ac39d020d6f8322f890f9b33f994#diff-ebbc445f07842947d83d0f98b7fa5140R1925
18:58:42  <LordAro> ORCT2 on the other hand...
18:59:27  <LordAro> i think they've worked out names for all the variables at this point
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19:00:08  <LANJesus> i'm too afraid to 'optimize' anything in openttd for fear of breaking some esoteric platform which i don't have access
19:00:47  <LordAro> pfft
19:00:53  <LordAro> windows, linux & osx
19:01:02  <LordAro> pretty much everything else is up to any maintainers
19:01:08  <LordAro> anything specific will be documented as such
19:02:12  <ANIKHTOS> i doen the changes in the files
19:02:20  <ANIKHTOS>  have the new setting added
19:02:33  <nielsm> you def. need to set up a machine running os/2, both as a buildbot, but also one where selected people can get a VNC connection (or similar) to and play the builds for testing!
19:02:38  <ANIKHTOS> i just do nto knwo how to access it
19:03:28  <LordAro> nielsm: sounds like you're volunteering
19:04:06  <nielsm> haha
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19:04:43  <nielsm> ANIKHTOS, _settings_game.game_creation.* and _settings_newgame.game_creation.* are your global GameCreationSettings instances
19:05:37  <nielsm> declared in settings_type.h
19:07:00  <ANIKHTOS> so i do not need to make an instance  i can use the _settings_game.game_creation.* ??
19:07:06  <nielsm> yes
19:07:19  <nielsm> not only do you not need to make your own instance, doing so would be straight up wrong
19:07:37  <nielsm> because the globals are where the actual, valid values are loaded into and saved back from
19:08:23  <ANIKHTOS> _settings_game.game_creation.slow  is the value of my varialbe??
19:08:30  <nielsm> yes
19:08:46  <nielsm> for the currently active game
19:09:03  <nielsm> and _settings_newgame.game_creation.slow is the setting that would be used if the player starts a new game right now
19:10:08  <nielsm> the values from _settings_game get stored into savegames, the values from _settings_newgame get stored into openttd.cfg
19:10:16  <ANIKHTOS> so when i load a game it uses the _settings_game.game_creation.* but when i star a new game it sues the _settings_game.game_creation.*
19:10:31  <peter1138> It's not a detail you need to care about.
19:10:33  <LordAro> glx: so it would seem that msys2 doesn't have __pragma, only _Pragma
19:10:53  <peter1138> The default value comes from what you placed in the definition.
19:10:59  <nielsm> it's automatic that when the player starts a new game, _settings_newgame is copied into _settings_game
19:11:15  <nielsm> so the newgame setting becomes valid for the new game
19:11:21  <nielsm> you don't need to do anything for that to happen
19:11:26  <peter1138> Classic case of the X-Y problem here :-)
19:11:36  <nielsm> just use _settings_game.* for all your logic that needs the value
19:13:30  <glx> LordAro: __pragma is specific to MSVC
19:13:32  <nielsm> also, you should really find space and time to install visual studio and use that instead of mingw, you get dramatically better tools for navigating and understanding the existing code
19:14:14  <Alberth> understanding what the code says is not improving with better tools :p
19:15:00  <nielsm> being able to easily look up the definitions of existing things IMO makes it easier to understand their purpose and usage
19:15:42  <nielsm> and doing a "find symbol" on something like GameCreationSettings makes it easier to see how it gets used in existing code
19:15:46  <glx> LordAro: and MSVC will not like _Pragma I think
19:16:05  <ANIKHTOS> thank you very much nielsm
19:16:22  <nielsm> _Pragma looks like a "modern C"-ism, and yeah MSVC won't like that
19:16:28  <LordAro> glx: _Pragma is in C99...
19:16:33  <Alberth> if you don't understand the difference between Blah x and Blah *x, better tools won't fix that
19:16:38  <LordAro> not exactly "modern"
19:16:50  <glx> _Pragma is gcc __pragma :)
19:16:55  <nielsm> I call everything past C89 "modern" ;)
19:17:06  <nielsm> (because so much C code still lives in that past)
19:17:17  <Alberth> still programming in C89, every now and then :(
19:17:24  <LordAro> glx: nope, definitely C standard
19:17:25  <LordAro> afaict
19:17:38  <michi_cc> LordAro: MSVC only supports the part of C99 needed for C++.
19:17:38  <nielsm> _Pragma is not in any C++ standard afaik
19:17:49  <LordAro> c++11 seems to have adopted it
19:17:50  <glx> and usually if MSVC added something before it appeared in the standard it won't touch it
19:18:47  <nielsm> doesn't C++ prefer [[attributes]] for things, in contrast to C99-and-later _Attributes
19:18:51  <nielsm> ?
19:19:17  <LordAro> it does, but it likes backwards compatibility with C as well
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19:19:39  <LordAro> yeah, cpp.pragma.op
19:19:40  <LordAro> 16.9
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19:19:49  <LordAro> http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/docs/papers/2013/n3797.pdf
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19:21:44  <LordAro> afaict MSVC does not support _Pragma
19:21:47  <LordAro> because they suck
19:22:10  <nielsm> but I think it has __declspec(pragma(...)) or something like that?
19:22:10  <glx> they don't need it, they have __pragma ;)
19:23:58  <glx> and that's why we have stdafx.h
19:24:16  <ANIKHTOS> it works  THNK YOU SO MUCH
19:24:33  <LordAro> glx: mm...
19:25:05  <ANIKHTOS> but now the code runs a bit strange
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19:33:17  <ANIKHTOS> it works now you can change the factor of how slow it is from inside playing
19:34:12  <ANIKHTOS> 1 uestion do you want the autosave to be at normal months or slow months?? now it is at normal months
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19:41:52  <nielsm> I want the same number of autosaves to happen within an hour of real time playing regardless of the slowing factor
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19:44:29  <ANIKHTOS> so you want the normal month autosave which will mena you willl have N facor autosave sin a slow month
19:44:35  <LordAro> right, that's everything except freetype working with msys2
19:47:06  <nielsm> hmm, the company graphs are actually drawn the same even in RTL languages
19:47:19  <nielsm> is that just because nobody has cared enough to mirror them?
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19:52:13  <ANIKHTOS> in the game down in the screen where you see the date the news and your money
19:52:40  <ANIKHTOS> in which file they are?? i want to change the date display to show the normal days passign as hours
19:52:45  <glx> we call it status bar
19:53:17  <nielsm> statusbar_gui.cpp
19:53:24  <nielsm> since it's called the status bar
19:53:32  <ANIKHTOS> thank you booth
19:53:48  <ANIKHTOS> well i did not know how the game was calling it
19:54:09  <glx> it's called the same in many applications
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20:00:45  <Alberth> nielsm: maybe nobody thought about it?
20:01:41  <LordAro> so apparently the solution to building with a static freetype is to append -lfreetype to the end of the ldflags (after -lharfbuzz)
20:01:56  <LordAro> despite -lfreetype already being in the list, but before -lharfbuzz
20:02:07  <glx> why harfbuzz ?
20:03:36  <LordAro> freetype pulls it in when specifying --static with pkg-config
20:03:58  <LordAro> (along with graphite2, glib-2.0 and all sorts of other fun stuff)
20:04:13  <LordAro> i know freetype & harfbuzz do have some sort of circular dependency with each other
20:05:11  <glx> I just have -lfreetype
20:06:03  <LordAro> with `pkg-config --libs freetype2` yes
20:06:13  <LordAro> `pkg-config --static --libs freetype2` does other stuff
20:06:21  <glx> D:\developpement\GitHub\OpenTTD [master ≡]> pkg-config --static --libs freetype2
20:06:21  <glx> -Ld:/mingw/lib -lfreetype
20:06:26  <LordAro> huh
20:06:36  <LordAro> well my linux system does the same
20:07:44  <glx> but I think I built freetype myself
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20:10:21  <LordAro> heh
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20:13:24  <glx> I built almost all libs
20:13:50  <glx> because most of them are not available in mingw-get
20:13:55  <LordAro> well that was the way with the old style
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20:19:40  <nielsm> yay got the graphs scaling properly too, so I can make them handle larger font sizes properly
20:20:16  <nielsm> http://0x0.st/sL6G.png
20:23:23  <ANIKHTOS> nice nielsm
20:26:21  <LANJesus> nielsm: will you be indicating FPS on the chart also? it feels weird having rates one place and duration another
20:27:10  <nielsm> FPS is a bit strange to graph like this, since it's generally an aggregate value over a range of measurements
20:27:18  <nielsm> so more like a moving average
20:27:32  <LANJesus> do you have a branch on github?
20:28:27  <nielsm> yes
20:28:31  <nielsm> pushing this in a moment
20:28:37  <LANJesus> cool : )
20:28:53  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:29:07  <LANJesus> the game itself has an inherent max framerate?
20:29:16  <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6822
20:29:29  <nielsm> normal rate is 30 milliseconds per tick
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20:29:48  <LANJesus> are graphics rendered once per tick?
20:29:49  <nielsm> enabling "fast forward" removes that restriction and runs ticks as fast as possible
20:29:52  <LordAro> glx: have an PR
20:29:55  <nielsm> yes, currently
20:30:01  <LANJesus> i'm a bit ignorant when it comes to openttd internals
20:30:20  <LANJesus> i only recently hacked on the windows 10 mouse glitch
20:30:23  <nielsm> I don't think the game supports simulating a frame and not rendering it
20:30:29  <LANJesus> but that got resolved officially ; D
20:31:07  <LANJesus> nielsm: hmm, i wonder what dedicated servers do ; )
20:31:16  <nielsm> they render to nowhere!
20:31:21  <LANJesus> ha. okay
20:31:29  <nielsm> actually, I haven't checked
20:31:37  <nielsm> there is a null video output
20:31:44  <LANJesus> it'd be funny if the sprite manipulations are still carried out
20:31:48  <nielsm> but the framebuffer rendering (blitter) is separate from that
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20:42:25  <nielsm> well, I think I figured out why there's regular spikes in the game loop times for this one ottdc save: http://0x0.st/sL6n.mp4
20:42:35  <nielsm> (I hope it shows in the video despite bad encoding)
20:43:17  <nielsm> it matches perfectly with the "central timer" logic train :)
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21:19:31  <LANJesus> none of your videos play for me nielsm
21:19:55  <LANJesus> oh weird. works in firefox, not chrome
21:20:28  <LANJesus> that video quality is pretty decent
21:21:55  <ANIKHTOS> in opera not work
21:22:44  <LANJesus> edge says invalid source
21:23:45  <LordAro> needs to be https to work for me, in chrome
21:24:21  <LANJesus> whoa that's weird as hell. same for me, also in edge
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21:31:07  <LordAro> "Refused to load media from 'http://0x0.st/sL6n.mp4' because it violates the following Content Security Policy directive: "default-src https:". Note that 'media-src' was not explicitly set, so 'default-src' is used as a fallback."
21:31:13  <LordAro> is what dev console tells me
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21:32:11  <nielsm> I don't know if the host supports https
21:32:32  <nielsm> slightly odd it won't fetch video from it
21:32:45  <LordAro> changing to https works fine
21:33:24  <LordAro> tells you perfectly what's wrong :p
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21:50:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so your browser has a "https only" policy, but doesn't autoreplace "http" with "https"?
21:50:39  <LordAro> apparently
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