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Log for #openttd on 21st June 2018:
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06:16:24  <andythenorth> moin
06:21:13  <reldred> afternoon
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06:42:48  <peter1138> So does nobody use the nightlies?
06:48:53  <andythenorth> there aren't any :P
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07:05:04  <LordAro> ^
07:05:09  <LordAro> someone should fix that
07:07:47  <peter1138> Yes, but as far as I know, nobody has complained.
07:08:12  <peter1138> Mind you, they might if NRT was merged ;)
07:08:32  <reldred> hah
07:09:26  <andythenorth> there is that yes :|
07:10:31  <peter1138> The PR needs to be updated.
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07:12:34  <andythenorth> oh yes
07:12:39  <andythenorth> conflicts :|
07:14:20  <andythenorth> well my Russian is not great :P
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07:53:15  <peter1138> Does it matter? :P
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08:15:08  <LordAro> yes.
08:19:12  <peter1138> Why?
08:19:18  <peter1138> andythenorth, does it matter?
08:19:33  <andythenorth> haven't looked yet
08:19:52  <andythenorth> if it's string conflicts, eh
08:19:53  <peter1138> All you do is apply the changes to your current version.
08:19:57  <Rubidium> ofcourse it matters, otherwise most of us wouldn't have the job we have now
08:20:39  <andythenorth> I'll rebase my fork later and see what happens
08:20:49  <andythenorth> now is to work
08:21:08  <andythenorth> also Bitbucket is returning ascii art on successful git push
08:21:10  <andythenorth> which is confusing
08:21:39  <peter1138> Hah
08:25:53  <peter1138> Well, the russian conflict is very simple and doesn't require understanding russian.
08:28:40  <peter1138> And the other one is pretty simple.
08:29:43  <peter1138> Hmm, can use the web editor? Hmm!
08:30:50  <peter1138> No you can't, because we use tabs as tabs, and the editor uses spaces as tabs :S
08:31:39  <andythenorth> :x
08:32:20  <peter1138> Actually you can, by copying and pasting existing tabs o_O
08:32:28  <peter1138> However...
08:32:33  <andythenorth> that's how I do it in my editor :P
08:32:35  <peter1138> You can test the changes to ensure there's not a typo.
08:32:39  <peter1138> ...
08:32:44  <peter1138> You *CAN'T* test the changes to ensure there's not a typo.
08:33:03  <andythenorth> oh
08:33:10  <andythenorth> what changed in your NRT branch? :o
08:33:15  <andythenorth> you're upstream to me :P
08:35:26  <andythenorth> maybe I should not touch that
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14:08:54  <dihedral> greetings
14:15:02  <FLHerne> dihedral: Afternoon
14:15:48  <andythenorth> it's like the past
14:15:54  <andythenorth> is belugas here too?
14:16:14  <LordAro> @seen Bjarni
14:16:14  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 6 years, 37 weeks, 0 days, 13 hours, 57 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
14:16:25  <andythenorth> @seen darkvater
14:16:26  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: darkvater was last seen in #openttd 12 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 7 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Darkvater> I'm looking for a distributed fs to setup my own private cloud using sbc's
14:16:39  <Eddi|zuHause> the past was never actually like the past
14:17:56  <nielsm> "missing person: left 12 weeks ago to search for a distributed file system"
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14:34:09  <nielsm> I'm tempted to add a "bikeshed" tag to the "Update of README file" PR
14:34:12  <nielsm> ;)
14:34:39  <andythenorth> nah, it's not bikeshedding to have good docs :)
14:34:48  <andythenorth> although 'macOS' makes me sick in my mouth
14:34:57  <nielsm> whether to write macOS or  Mac OS X is
14:35:08  <dihedral> darkvater - recently saw him on linked in
14:35:23  <LordAro> i still call it osx
14:35:28  <andythenorth> me too
14:35:30  <LordAro> but equally i have absolutely no use for it
14:35:32  <andythenorth> and I use the damn thing
14:35:38  <dihedral> but we have a rubidium and a TrueBrain  - we need not cherrish those old times
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14:35:55  <andythenorth> shall we just highlight people annoyingly dihedral?
14:36:01  <andythenorth> you choose who
14:36:09  <LordAro> i choose andythenorth
14:36:15  * LordAro throws pokeball
14:36:17  <andythenorth> what about glx?
14:36:19  <andythenorth> not here
14:36:32  <dihedral> i do not know what you mean, andythenorth
14:36:34  <dihedral> :-P
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14:45:52  <Rubidium> andythenorth: why would that make you sick in your mouth? It's just nostalgia ;)
14:46:38  <andythenorth> mostly because it's 'Mac'
14:46:42  <andythenorth> not 'mac'
14:46:53  <andythenorth> and the shape of 'macOS' is horribly ugly
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14:50:46  <Rubidium> oh joy... our "friends" at apple call it macOS now (previously Mac OS X and OS X)
14:51:04  <Rubidium> so useful to rename your product to have the same name as in the past
14:53:39  <Eddi|zuHause> the name is dead, long live the neame
14:53:46  <Eddi|zuHause> -e
14:55:30  <nielsm> windows went from version 4 to 2000 to NaN to 7, 8, 10
14:55:39  <nielsm> doesn't have to make sense
14:56:19  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but they didn't go back to Windows NT
14:56:27  <dihedral> servers still count 2008, 2012, 2016 ...
14:57:55  <Eddi|zuHause> what's worse is that there's an internal numbering and a marketing numbering that don't seem to have anything to do with each other, but both are used in different places to present to the user
14:58:16  <dihedral> devs and branding teams :-D
15:02:05  * dihedral started writing a tcp admin thingy in tcl...
15:02:15  <dihedral> just for the fun of it
15:02:17  <dihedral> tcl is fun
15:02:19  <dihedral> ...
15:02:25  * dihedral shuts up
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15:31:00  <nielsm> trying to add measurement of time taken to draw just viewports now...
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15:40:22  <nielsm> seems to be working :) https://0x0.st/s9Hu.mp4
15:41:17  <andythenorth> o_O
15:42:15  <LordAro> nice
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15:43:37  <ANIKHTOS> nhello nielsm i watch the varibles as you suggeted
15:43:39  <ANIKHTOS> there is a bug
15:45:14  <ANIKHTOS> nielsm how must stress the statistic put on the cpu?? how much perfomance you loose when you run them ? is there a way to know??
15:46:15  <nielsm> drawing the windows that shows the framerate and performance numbers does cost CPU time, but taking the measurements doesn't take much in particular
15:52:47  <ANIKHTOS> so is there a way to calculate a ^ loss because of the measurements running??
15:53:18  <ANIKHTOS> it would give a better idea to slwo machines how the game runs for them
15:53:21  <andythenorth> well
15:53:29  <andythenorth> one could write a tool to measure the performance...
15:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> you can't know how much you change the value by measuring it. that's the core of Heisenbergs law
15:56:32  <ANIKHTOS> an estiamtion would nto be usefull ???
15:59:13  <andythenorth> run the same savegame on FFWD for timed runs
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16:26:11  <ANIKTHOS> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/paweslopo added comments to evry lien to every variable what it does
16:26:18  <ANIKTHOS> now the code is easier to read??
16:26:35  <ANIKTHOS> or still i am nto writitng the code as i ought to write it>>
16:30:37  <nielsm> https://0x0.st/s9XN.jpg  <- slowco :P
16:32:21  <ANIKTHOS> nice game nielsm
16:32:35  <ANIKTHOS> in a game i either focus on cargo oron passangers
16:33:41  <nielsm> it's not mine though
16:34:05  <nielsm> one I downloaded to use as an extreme stress test
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16:39:00  <ANIKTHOS> so in the code i posted the bug is line 15 is not executed the first N times !?!??! but there is execution of code line 24 to 30!?!??!
16:39:51  <ANIKTHOS> now if i change the line 24 if (_dayh > _daym){ to if (_dayh == _daym){  line 15 is executed but now line 24 is not executed for N times
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16:43:01  <peter1138> nielsm, 4 fps! o_O
16:43:32  <nielsm> the ///< type of comments are normally only used for declarations, specifically fields in structs/classes and values in enums
16:43:41  <peter1138> Yeah but we're strange.
16:43:51  <nielsm> for regular code short comments just use //
16:44:04  <peter1138> I wonder if the measurements are starting to affect performance? :)
16:44:16  <LordAro> "starting"
16:44:31  <ANIKTHOS> thanks nielsm i just added comments
16:44:37  <LordAro> hide the graphs and see what you get
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16:44:47  <ANIKTHOS> i was waiting for the code to be finsihed to add them since i still play with it
16:44:49  <peter1138> LordAro, sure the graphs will
16:44:50  <nielsm> I hope the actual measuring doesn't have any appreciable effect, but painting the framerate GUI does take some time
16:44:56  <peter1138> LordAro, but I mean the actual measuring.
16:45:11  <peter1138> That level of detail does look really nice though :)
16:45:16  <LordAro> oh, well i'd hope not
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16:45:35  <LordAro> what is it, an extra couple of stores every tick?
16:45:43  <nielsm> yeah
16:46:01  <nielsm> 64 bit integer math and some stores
16:46:02  <peter1138> Hopefully it's just one measurement per vehicle type? May not be though.
16:46:29  <nielsm> I don't know how fast/slow QPC is on windows but since it's for performance measurement, I assume it's not so slow as to affect performance significantly
16:46:36  <peter1138> :)
16:46:52  <nielsm> nope, have to call it in Train::Tick, RoadVehicle::Tick, Ship::Tick, Aircraft::Tick
16:47:08  <nielsm> since they're all assembled in one large vehicle vector
16:47:30  <peter1138> Damn :(
16:47:41  <peter1138> That's a lot of measurements then.
16:47:48  <nielsm> yeah...
16:48:02  <peter1138> I'll see in a second :)
16:48:12  <peter1138> Er, if this is pushed.
16:48:17  <nielsm> still each measurement should be trivial compared to the rest of the tick processing
16:48:21  <nielsm> just pushed it
16:48:40  <nielsm> ANIKTHOS, are you sure your variables are being initialized correctly?
16:49:43  <ANIKTHOS> well they are intiialized by copu earlier
16:49:51  <ANIKTHOS> variable=0:
16:50:05  <ANIKTHOS> variable=1;
16:50:39  <peter1138> Hmm, still hovering between 7.5 and 8fps on that same save.
16:50:40  <nielsm> oh oops, I mistaked a make
16:50:48  <peter1138> Maybe slightly slower but not massively.
16:51:36  <nielsm> if you collapse the main framerate window it will show just the basic rate in the caption, in debug mode I get a significant difference between full details and just basic rate rendering :P
16:51:44  <nielsm> in debug builds*
16:52:55  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the string assembly takes some time as well as the actual redrawing?
16:53:07  <peter1138> Hmm, gameloop is still 16ms with all vehicles paused
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16:53:18  <peter1138> and train ticks is still 6ms with all trains paused o_O
16:53:46  <peter1138> I suppose there *are* a lot more rail vehicles.
16:59:47  <nielsm> there's more roadvehs than trains, but more train cars than roadvehs
17:00:09  <peter1138> Yeah, I said rail vehicles rather than trains.
17:00:12  <peter1138> So...
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17:00:22  <peter1138> I typed "fps" in the console on a dedicated server.
17:00:25  <peter1138> It crashed :p
17:00:31  <nielsm> ;_;
17:00:40  <peter1138> Fails when no readings have been taken.
17:00:46  <nielsm> ah
17:00:55  <peter1138> paused on start
17:00:55  <nielsm> div by zero?
17:00:55  <Eddi|zuHause> why is a jurassic park tycoon-ish game age 16+?
17:01:02  <peter1138> and also there'll be no sound.
17:01:16  <peter1138> No, min <= max
17:01:36  <Eddi|zuHause> why would a 12-year-old not enjoy a trex mowing through your visitors?
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17:05:08  <nielsm> peter1138 try this: https://0x0.st/s9X2.txt
17:05:37  <Wolf01> o/
17:05:37  <nielsm> that should also let it skip video and sound when it's not doing that
17:05:51  <ANIKTHOS> hello wolf01
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17:07:16  <peter1138> Hmm, network mode is totally fucked up with that savegame.
17:12:21  <peter1138> Maybe there's a problem with the network protocol when the server & client can't keep up.
17:18:17  <peter1138> nielsm, yeah that stops it crashing
17:18:33  <nielsm> pushed that fix for the fps command, also fixed it to not print rate numbers that are meaningless
17:18:56  <peter1138> Lots of fps values that aren't in the gui :p
17:20:24  <nielsm> I think I'll also add back a semi-collapsed state to the framerate window where it doesn't show all the data elements
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17:25:20  <peter1138> Found an issue.
17:25:32  <peter1138> You calculate the time of GameLoop()
17:25:46  <peter1138> However the actually gameloop is StateGameLoop()
17:25:48  <peter1138> -ly
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17:27:36  <peter1138> I guess the stuff in GameLoop() itself doesn't need to be measured, cos it's not the actual game loop.
17:28:42  <peter1138> And the network lag issue appears to be because the client is ALWAYS playing catch up with the server, and so barely has a chance to render.
17:30:29  <peter1138> There we go, moved the timer to StateGameLoop()
17:30:41  <peter1138> Simulation rate: 7.93 frames/s
17:30:50  <peter1138> Graphics frame rate: 0.60 frames/s
17:30:52  <peter1138> o_O
17:31:16  <peter1138> It was running at ~ 4 fps for a bit but then collapsed.
17:34:54  <LordAro> ooi, why "frames/s" rather than "fps" ?
17:36:02  <nielsm> because that's more stylish
17:36:04  <nielsm> :P
17:36:59  <LordAro> :p
17:44:59  <Wolf01> :P
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17:50:42  <andythenorth> but is it done?
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17:55:24  <LordAro> yes
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18:02:16  <andythenorth> ok
18:02:20  <andythenorth> back to CSS for me then
18:04:25  <nielsm> more fun with scaling... https://0x0.st/s98Z.png
18:20:01  <Eddi|zuHause> why does the scale say "s" when the label says "ms"?
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18:33:53  <nielsm> the peak label is always in milliseconds, the scale uses seconds when appropriate
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18:36:12  <nielsm> on the idea that you want to see the full precision of the peak, but don't need to read superfluous zeroes on the axis
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19:23:07  <ANIKTHOS> does anyone want to re produce the bug and tell me if they also have it??
19:29:02  <peter1138> I want to eat these home-grown-from-my-garden strawberries, raspberries and gooseberries.
19:30:43  <nielsm> ugh I can't figure out how to handle "paused" states in a reasonable way...
19:31:01  <peter1138> If pause, don't update the measurements?
19:31:56  <nielsm> the gap in time causes things to be weird when you unpause
19:33:39  <andythenorth> peter1138: you can
19:34:11  <peter1138> andythenorth, I did!
19:40:58  <andythenorth> Good!
19:42:06  <andythenorth> well I should fix NRT eh
19:42:16  <andythenorth> but it's recycling day :|
19:46:23  <Wolf01> <peter1138> I want to eat these home-grown-from-my-garden strawberries, raspberries and gooseberries. <- the whatberries?
19:54:18  <peter1138> Nah, no whatberries.
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19:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i think if paused the measurements should just be 0?
19:57:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the parts that aren't executed i mean. there's still like drawing and stuff going on
20:02:50  <nielsm> https://0x0.st/s9KT.mp4
20:02:53  <nielsm> how about this way?
20:09:40  <Eddi|zuHause> don't like it
20:10:57  <nielsm> IMO it's the most appropriate way to handle it, since the game loop is supposed to be "in stasis" with no time passing in it
20:11:53  <nielsm> (also it took a bunch of care to get working so you better damn appreciate it!!! ;)
20:14:25  <Eddi|zuHause> if i'm watching my realtime applications, i want all the graphs be in sync
20:15:01  <ANIKTHOS> 	if ( _settings_game.game_creation.slow_time_factor==_dayn){ this line and this line     if (_dayn == _settings_game.game_creation.slow_time_factor){
20:15:08  <ANIKTHOS> whats the difference??
20:16:26  <Eddi|zuHause> ANIKTHOS: make a printf() before this line, watch the values of the variables in an actual run
20:17:45  <ANIKTHOS> i change the status bar in the game and i display the variables i have created
20:18:04  <ANIKTHOS> one lien works okey
20:18:07  <ANIKTHOS> the other not
20:18:18  <ANIKTHOS> but they ought to be the same??
20:19:18  <ANIKTHOS> how to i use th eprintif???
20:19:27  <ANIKTHOS> to get  a report??
20:19:51  <nielsm> printf("dayn = %d\n", _dayn);
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20:20:18  <nielsm> the \n at the end is to make a newline (line break)
20:20:45  <nielsm> the %d is a formatting code for "decimal" (i.e. integer value to be shown in normal base 10)
20:21:30  <nielsm> printf("stf = %d, dayn = %d\n", _settings_game.game_creation.slow_time_factor, _dayn);
20:21:32  <nielsm> prints two variables
20:21:56  <ANIKTHOS> where it will print them write them so i can see them??
20:22:07  <nielsm> to the console window
20:22:31  <nielsm> I guess you only see that one if you're making debug builds, I don't know if you are or not
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20:23:21  <ANIKTHOS> i type make
20:23:34  <ANIKTHOS> i shoudl type make -g??
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20:24:41  <nielsm> I think it's a configure option to get debug builds
20:25:43  <ANIKTHOS> but i can already watch the variables what value they get
20:27:21  <ANIKTHOS> the bug disapeared when i reverse the logic question
20:29:13  <ANIKTHOS> for one reason it takes the value from this logic quesiton to make the bug apear that many times
20:29:37  <ANIKTHOS> reversing the question secodn part now is 0 so the bug will apear 0 times thus never
20:29:42  <ANIKTHOS> !!?!??!
20:30:10  <LordAro> pretty sure make -g isn't a thing
20:30:42  <ANIKTHOS> i was readign gdt manual and it was make - somethign
20:30:58  <ANIKTHOS> make -o for optimized code
20:31:03  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:31:11  <nielsm> no those are for gcc and g++
20:31:13  <nielsm> not for make
20:31:34  <LordAro> you do not get to touch those directly
20:31:39  <LordAro> (yes yes i know about CFLAGS)
20:31:47  <LordAro> you should not need to
20:32:09  <peter1138> nielsm, assertion failed at line 656 of framerate_gui.cpp
20:32:13  <peter1138> newpoint.x <= lastpoint.x
20:32:39  <nielsm> ugh I thought I weeded out all possibilities of that
20:34:24  <nielsm> do you know which graph triggered it, and what situation?
20:36:16  <ANIKTHOS> well good news bug is suppressed to not apear, bad news i do not have any clue why it happened  i will take the small win
20:44:10  <Eddi|zuHause> ANIKTHOS: try "./configure --enable-debug=1"
20:44:48  <Eddi|zuHause> also, the printf might be visible on the ingame console, not sure
20:45:17  <Eddi|zuHause> open the ingame console with the key left of [1]
20:45:44  <Eddi|zuHause> (actual key may differ between keyboard layouts)
20:46:26  <ANIKTHOS> si there a way to see if a lien is executed or not??
20:46:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what the printf is for
20:47:04  <Eddi|zuHause> or, i guess, you could learn gdb and set a breakpoint
20:48:08  <ANIKTHOS> lol i have not leart github
20:48:15  <ANIKTHOS> not leanred to make the diff files yet
20:48:24  <ANIKTHOS> and the list to learn get bigger and bigger
20:51:15  <ANIKTHOS> teh thigns shown in console can be saves in a log file??
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