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Log for #openttd on 19th September 2018:
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07:00:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jmakovicka updated pull request #6911: Codechange: Improve (un)zoom performance https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6911
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07:08:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #6911: Codechange: Improve (un)zoom performance https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6911#issuecomment-422682511
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07:14:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jmakovicka updated pull request #6911: Codechange: Improve (un)zoom performance https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6911
07:15:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jmakovicka commented on pull request #6911: Codechange: Improve (un)zoom performance https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6911#issuecomment-422684699
07:18:12  <LordAro> peter1138: poke wrt 6780 6784
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07:34:34  <Samu_> hi
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08:25:54  <Samu_> darn config settings poof'ed
09:46:52  <Samu_> Bridges will only be build starting on non-flat tiles  * for performance reasons.
09:47:03  <Samu_> damn performance reasons
09:49:20  <Samu_> https://imgur.com/a/PCcMieG - performance reasons
09:50:47  <Samu_> https://imgur.com/wxTdHiK - underperforming
09:51:34  <Samu_> well, it 1 more year
09:51:38  <Samu_> i see what they mean
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14:11:57  <Samu> can buses transport other cargo than passengers?
14:12:00  <Samu> like mail?
14:12:24  <Samu> are there weirdo newgrfs that change these kind of rules?
14:14:08  <nielsm> maybe the wastelanders thing?
14:18:37  <Samu> oh, i see
14:18:48  <Samu> i selected passengers, it detects mail
14:18:51  <Samu> hmm
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14:41:36  <Samu> so mail are wastelanders
14:41:49  <Samu> but bus stops are what they need
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14:44:45  <Samu> oh, it actually built a bus station
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15:56:11  <m3henry> LordAro: would breaking the SmallVector -> std::vector up in to individual pull requests for each type be a more manageable strategy?
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15:58:14  <andythenorth> well
15:58:17  <m3henry> 'lo
15:59:37  <andythenorth> peter1138 electric bike happened
15:59:40  <andythenorth> they are weird
16:02:30  <LordAro> andythenorth: ono
16:03:52  <LordAro> m3henry: probably not individual PRs, but the commits could be a bit more "logical"
16:04:27  <andythenorth> this, except mine includes pedals https://i.redd.it/wgd4ph4j7ri01.jpg
16:04:33  <andythenorth> the one in the photo seems to lack them
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16:05:31  <andythenorth> I think this might have been better, but eh http://sandiegoflyrides.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/charger-768x512.jpg
16:05:37  <andythenorth> limited stock, I wanted a bike
16:05:42  <andythenorth> so chose what they had
16:06:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6817#issuecomment-422861526
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16:07:21  <m3henry> Oh I didn't spot the response
16:08:23  <m3henry> what exactly do you mean by more '"logical"'
16:32:23  <LordAro> m3henry: one logical change at a time - i imagine something that adds the (temporary) functions for vector, a (massive) commit that updates types/functions (should be close to one for one line changes), then more commits that neaten up the code (auto, for loops, std algorithms, etc)
16:33:43  <m3henry> So that would be 3 PRs then?
16:34:39  <LordAro> 3 commits
16:35:12  <LordAro> you could make an argument that the latter commits could be separate PRs, but i don't see the benefit
16:35:33  <LordAro> ideally, the temporary functions wouldn't exist in the master branch at any point, imo
16:35:39  <m3henry> same
16:36:12  <m3henry> I was thinking of slowly removing usage of Smallvector directly
16:37:27  <LordAro> m3henry: my own thought was to make smallvector a child class of std vector
16:37:35  <LordAro> not sure how well that would woek in practice
16:37:41  <LordAro> work*
16:38:14  <m3henry> hmm
16:39:13  <m3henry> That might work well actually
16:40:41  <m3henry> The implementation of smallvector can be changed to use std::vector, and slowly things switch to using std::vector's interface, finally the types can be changed from smallvector to std::vector and smallvector removed
16:42:38  <LordAro> :>
16:43:01  <m3henry> It has the added benefit that 'logical change' can be grouped by method, rather than by type
16:43:09  <LordAro> aye
16:43:26  <LordAro> Begin & End should be easy :p
16:43:37  <m3henry> :3
16:44:19  <m3henry> If that's the route that would be easiest to review then I wil pursue that
16:44:39  <LordAro> seems to me like it might be
16:44:49  <LordAro> might want to check with an actual dev though :p
16:44:54  <LordAro> frosch123: ^ ?
16:45:25  <m3henry> AsS you already pointed out it's a large pile of work and it makes sense to know what strategy will fit in with the review methodology before starting
16:53:00  <m3henry> I'll check back when I get home (45mins)
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17:10:12  <andythenorth> ooof
17:10:29  <andythenorth> 141 trains drawn, 55 to go
17:10:36  <Samu> how do i use superlibs road pathfinder? I'm trying to look for a smarter/faster road pathfinder
17:11:08  <Samu> roadpathfinder4 is dumb when it finds rails and rivers
17:11:26  <andythenorth> samu you need a bear :)
17:11:51  <andythenorth> http://blog.adrianbolboaca.ro/2012/12/teddy-bear-pair-programming/
17:12:27  <Samu> oh, i usually talk to myself
17:12:37  <Samu> or use this chat, as ppl have mentioned
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17:13:27  <Wolf01> o/
17:14:52  <Samu> A wrapper around the A* based road path finder library. It changes some costs and adds ability to cross rail/canals with bridges.
17:14:56  <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=47525
17:15:00  <Samu> sounds tasty
17:20:36  <andythenorth> Samu: but if you use the channel as a bear, I can't :P
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17:29:22  <Samu> aha
17:29:28  <Samu> it has been improted
17:29:29  <Samu> import("Util.SuperLib", "SuperLib", 40);
17:29:41  <Samu> now how do i pathfind with it
17:30:21  <andythenorth> hmmm
17:30:31  <andythenorth> Iron Horse 2 has some serious conceptual flaws
17:30:44  <andythenorth> design is wrong
17:30:47  <andythenorth> throw away?
17:30:53  <LordAro> Copper Cow
17:30:58  <andythenorth> ooh nice name
17:31:04  <andythenorth> there should be a newgrf called that
17:31:06  <andythenorth> or a pub
17:31:58  <andythenorth> TL;DR there are some minor issues with my set design
17:32:20  <andythenorth> but usually $someone here has to point out that the problem is that there are problems with my design
17:32:28  <andythenorth> and if my design was good, there would be no problems with it :)
17:32:37  <andythenorth> usually it's V453000 or Eddi|zuHause
17:32:37  <LordAro> probably is a pub called that already
17:32:51  <andythenorth> possibly the only time V453000 and Eddi|zuHause outright 100% agree on something
17:32:54  <LordAro> yup
17:32:57  <LordAro> in chiswick
17:33:10  <andythenorth> and Halifax
17:33:25  <Eddi|zuHause> if V and me agree on something, you have a serious problem :p
17:33:37  <andythenorth> at that point Eddi|zuHause, I then have two problems :P
17:34:01  <andythenorth> my design assumes 6 train generations
17:34:11  <andythenorth> except for metro (3)
17:34:21  <andythenorth> and narrow gauge (undecided)
17:34:33  <andythenorth> this causes some odd-looking code (fixable) and some design headaches
17:35:21  <andythenorth> maintaining progression and some sort of relative balance is tricky when interleaving 4 NG generations into 6
17:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not a fan of the minimalist approach: "i arbitrarily decided to have at most X things, now i need to cut away stuff that makes sense"
17:35:55  <andythenorth> also, there are 6 wagon generations, speed limited
17:36:07  <andythenorth> but NG only has one generation, no speed limit
17:36:13  <FLHerne> Wow, someone mentioned the existence of Eritrean Railway https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Rail_vehicles_of_Eritrea
17:36:15  <andythenorth> which seems inconsistent in a non-useful way
17:36:24  <andythenorth> player has to learn how the set works twice
17:36:29  <FLHerne> This thing is cute https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Minitriebwagen.JPG
17:36:37  <andythenorth> FLHerne: I have looked at Eritrea for Horse
17:36:52  <andythenorth> it's an unusual triumph of human effort in difficult circs
17:36:54  <andythenorth> or something
17:36:59  <Eddi|zuHause> is that much different from other african railways?
17:37:12  <andythenorth> they managed to preserve ancient rolling stock through a civil war
17:37:20  <andythenorth> with basically no funds
17:37:23  <andythenorth> that's unusual
17:37:42  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of african places had a civil war, though
17:37:47  <Eddi|zuHause> and no funds
17:37:51  <andythenorth> http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/tales/liberiatales02a.htm
17:39:02  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Even by African standards, it's tiny
17:39:59  <Eddi|zuHause> there is this railway in tansania, where delays are measured in "if the train doesn't come today, it'll come tomorrow"
17:40:48  <andythenorth> hmmm
17:41:29  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.trainweb.org/eritrean/scrapbook/who/mebrat_tzehaie/a.jpg
17:41:36  <andythenorth> well I could draw 3 generations of NG wagon
17:42:02  <andythenorth> the visual difference will be pretty minimal
17:42:03  <FLHerne> (that was the only passenger service at that end of the line)
17:42:06  <Eddi|zuHause> that does look a bit more improvised than average :p
17:42:32  <FLHerne> Also, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Eritrea_Schienen-LKW_W500.jpg
17:42:42  <FLHerne> And this! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Railtrack_maintenance_vehicle.JPG
17:42:55  <andythenorth> the open car is only 45 pixels http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html#open_car_ng_pony_gen_1A
17:43:05  <FLHerne> The wiki article says they have a /fleet/ of those converted trucks
17:43:06  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, using trucks for rail is not that uncommon in developing countries
17:43:08  <andythenorth> making 3 different ones is limited
17:43:24  <andythenorth> lol railbikes :)
17:43:27  <andythenorth> they are common-ish too
17:43:30  <FLHerne> I guess once you've figured out how to build one, you might as well make some more
17:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen a video of a railway in thailand or burma or something like that
17:44:52  <andythenorth> yeah I am looking for the myanmar stuff
17:44:53  <andythenorth> http://www.railpictures.net/photo/638184/
17:45:28  <andythenorth> http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?railroad=Namtu%20Mines%20Railway%20(Myanmar)
17:46:23  <Eddi|zuHause> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3502lHaZQIo
17:46:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that is the one i watched
17:46:46  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: I mean, other countries have odd underresourced branches in backwater areas
17:47:13  <FLHerne> This is the most-improvised thing I've seen forming the entire national network
17:48:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess you're right about that
17:48:48  <FLHerne> It's an odd underresourced branch, except it connects the two largest cities
17:48:57  <andythenorth> I should draw this for horse http://www.railpictures.net/photo/550382/
17:49:06  <andythenorth> Iron Water Buffalo
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17:50:55  <andythenorth> check out the belt drive https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ba/a8/7a/baa87a75d8dd43796a989dd3c694a73a.jpg
17:51:09  <andythenorth> and I assume that's the fuel tank on the roof
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17:59:46  <andythenorth> programmer complaints: http://tonsky.me/blog/disenchantment/
18:09:02  <Eddi|zuHause> saves a fuel pump to put the tank on the roof
18:12:15  <andythenorth> hope there are no low bridges
18:12:54  <Eddi|zuHause> if you watch the video above, the guy who films it is clearly on top of that roof
18:17:05  <andythenorth> sometimes I wonder if 6 wagon generations is a BAD IDEA
18:17:10  <andythenorth> but I found nothing better
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18:44:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have about 4½ cargo wagon generations and about 5 or 6 passenger generations, but it's not very clean
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18:47:46  <andythenorth> it makes a mess with speeds
18:47:58  <andythenorth> if only we had vehicle groups in buy menu
18:48:01  <andythenorth> or something :P
18:57:37  <andythenorth> so I need 3 or 4 NG wagon generations
18:57:39  <andythenorth> maybe 3 only
18:57:53  <andythenorth> pictures of wagons would help :P
19:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause> 1880, 1920, 1960 and 2000?
19:06:48  <andythenorth> 1860, 1950, 1990 apparently
19:06:57  <andythenorth> NG speed seems to be capped 35mph until 1950
19:07:02  <andythenorth> that might be accident not design
19:07:34  <andythenorth> but it has a limited range to work within
19:07:51  <andythenorth> currently caps out at 55mph, could go to 65mph, but quite quite unrealistic :)
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19:17:44  <Amadar> Anyone out there to talk?
19:18:00  <LordAro> @topic get -3
19:18:00  <DorpsGek> LordAro: English only
19:18:04  <LordAro> wait
19:18:07  <LordAro> @topic get 3
19:18:07  <DorpsGek> LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask
19:18:10  <LordAro> that one
19:18:14  <Amadar> English all the way.
19:18:46  <Amadar> Anyone know where I can find traffic for the town, besides my own?
19:19:43  <LordAro> cars grf + towncars ai usually, right?
19:20:03  <Amadar> That's it LordAro.
19:21:01  <Samu> superlib road pathfinder is slower :(
19:21:06  <Samu> bah
19:21:58  <Amadar> Would be great for town traffic to somehow hinder your path to success too. More challenging.
19:26:22  <Amadar> Anyone need some tips? Welcome to share mine.
19:27:01  <Amadar> Also have challenge for those who play single player.
19:28:29  <andythenorth> ?
19:29:15  <Amadar> andy you in?
19:31:50  <Amadar> Anyone playing sinlge player, here goes. Fire up a new game, pick a spot and place your HQ. From the town you have picked build your depots only in this town and try to expand your empire. Switch OFF repairs in settings. See how hard it can be.
19:37:19  <Eddi|zuHause> other than placing hq, that sounds mostly how i play my games
19:37:25  <LordAro> could you achieve that via gameacript, i wonder?
19:37:37  <andythenorth> hmm
19:37:43  <andythenorth> I use escape depots a lot
19:37:44  <LordAro> can't restrict placing depots/stations, can you?
19:37:49  <andythenorth> I would have to change play style
19:38:00  <Amadar> I would love to a script for it, unfortunately I can't code yet.
19:38:05  <Eddi|zuHause> gamescript cannot prevent building, but immediately destroy
19:38:20  <LordAro> heh, financial punishment for trying
19:39:04  <Amadar> Sadly no, true to yourself, placing depots only in the town. quite a challengfe to get our trains from one depot, stop others and route the new trains to their new destinations.
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19:39:55  <Amadar> It gets hectic once you have a booming network.
19:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it's fine for trains, but busses or trams?
19:41:32  <Amadar> How do you setup a scenario playing online server. Saw some games that notions; first player to reach 4000 habitants wins.
19:41:59  <Amadar> Tried to create a game, but no such options. Maybe a script?
19:42:17  <Amadar> Busses and trams the same rule applies.
19:42:35  <Amadar> See your HQ and official start point is where everything branches out.
19:42:51  <Amadar> Makes the game even tougher if played on a large map.
19:42:52  <LordAro> andythenorth: nice article btw
19:43:03  <andythenorth> kinda
19:43:03  <LordAro> that guy is my spirit animal
19:43:07  <andythenorth> although kinda moany
19:43:32  <andythenorth> the "google keyboard is bigger than win 95" is an interesting point
19:43:50  <Amadar> Keep going
19:44:31  <Amadar> Where you guys from?
19:45:02  <Amadar> Maybe we can setup a multiplayer online and hit the game.
19:58:48  <Amadar> Thanks for the chat, hitting the deck - hope to hear from you guys again.
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20:29:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] steils opened pull request #6912: Fix #6854: Compilation with ICU 62 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6912
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21:14:06  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:15:49  <Samu> so I'm updating the AI version info, and it complains about HasNext does not exist
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21:35:21  <Samu> i change every HasNext into !IsEnd?
21:35:28  <Samu> borin
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21:45:17  <LordAro> HasNext hasn't existed in... 7 years?
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21:51:51  <Samu> regular expression
21:51:55  <Samu> must use
21:51:58  <Samu> and i dunno how to use
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22:13:47  <Samu> who's a regular expression expert?
22:14:15  <Samu> for (local bridge = m_bridgeTiles.Begin(), i = 0; m_bridgeTiles.HasNext(); bridge = m_bridgeTiles.Next(), ++i) {
22:14:49  <Samu> wanna replace whateverishere.HasNext() to !whateverishere.IsEnd()
22:15:05  <Samu> using notepad++
22:16:11  <glx> no need for a regex, a standard search&replace should work
22:16:56  <glx> hmm sorry not reading correctly, a regex is needed
22:23:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6631: In singleplayer, you cannot buyout one human-player company as another. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6631#issuecomment-422978473
22:26:23  <LordAro> Samu: s/([A-Za-z0-9]+)\.HasNext/!.IsEnd/
22:26:31  <LordAro> might need some backslashes in palces
22:26:32  <LordAro> places
22:27:23  <glx> (\S+)\.HasNext should work too
22:27:46  <Samu> what do i put in Find what
22:28:02  <LordAro> heh
22:28:12  <Samu> all that?
22:28:18  <LordAro> glx: that would be shorter
22:28:29  <glx> in search you type (\S)\.HasNext
22:28:38  <LordAro> i've run into too many regex engines that don't have \S
22:28:47  <glx> in replace you put !.IsEnd
22:29:08  <glx> I just read http://docs.notepad-plus-plus.org/index.php/Regular_Expressions
22:29:11  <Samu> https://regex101.com/r/sH5hZ4/1 fail
22:29:59  <Samu> ops, that's not my code
22:30:08  <LordAro> regex101 is great
22:30:21  <LordAro> it gives you a nice explanation of what it's doing in the top right
22:30:23  <LordAro> you should read that
22:31:11  <Eddi|zuHause> "First they came for "master/slave replication", and I did not speak up  because I was not a DBA."
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22:37:18  <Samu> https://regex101.com/r/rNbZVu/1
22:37:21  <Samu> it werks!
22:38:09  <glx> try with \S because m_anything will be left out
22:39:17  <Samu>  m_!tileList
22:39:18  <Samu> crap
22:40:30  <glx> yes replace [..] stuff with \S
22:42:23  <Samu> cool, thx
22:42:26  <m3henry> LordAro: It seems I can make std::vector<T> interface compatible with SmallVector<T, S>, except that T must be default constructible.
22:42:54  <LordAro> oho
22:43:44  <m3henry> There are a couple of classes which do not have default constructors
22:43:53  <m3henry> which are used for T
22:44:22  <LordAro> these are the ones nielsm noted before, i think?
22:44:47  <m3henry> I don't recall that conversation
22:45:02  <m3henry> I probably wasn't there
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22:47:07  <m3henry> It's probably okay to add those default constructors in temporarily?
22:48:34  <m3henry> It may not though, I'll have to check tomorrow
22:48:53  <Samu> this.town_list.HasNext()
22:49:02  <Samu> works too
22:49:11  <Samu> list2.HasNext() too
22:49:18  <Samu> nice thx
22:49:27  <glx> yes because \S exclude all spaces
22:50:57  <Samu> updated AI API requirements to 1.1
22:50:59  <Samu> testing
22:51:16  <Samu> should try 1.8 asap
22:51:31  <LordAro> there are very few breaking changes except that one
22:51:35  <LordAro> it's in the AI changelog :)
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22:53:46  <Samu> i need old openttd versions to test this api compatibility, right?
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22:56:33  <Samu> according to https://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/ai__changelog_8hpp.html, if I use AIEngine::GetMaximumOrderDistance, the minimum openttd version is then 1.2.0, right? what about the api? 1.2.0 too?
22:57:56  <Samu> open ttd 1.1.0 would not be able to run it?
22:59:12  <Samu> if the api info i set is 1.0, and I  use a 1.2 feature and I have OpenTTD 1.1.0, the script will crash when it tries to use AIEngine::GetMaximumOrderDistance?
23:00:02  <glx> yes the script can't call an inexistant function
23:00:30  <Samu> okay, so min api is 1.2
23:00:44  <Samu> which also makes openttd 1.2.0 minimum
23:04:41  <Samu> oh, i also use AIStation::GetCargoWaitingVia
23:04:50  <Samu> that bumps it to 1.4
23:06:48  <Samu> AICargo::GetDistributionType also 1.4
23:06:53  <Samu> seems that 1.4 is the requirement
23:09:39  <Samu> AIOF_SERVICE_IF_NEEDED does not exist :(
23:10:38  <Samu> https://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/classAIOrder.html#ca4eab6320c32ec982461231f14d1c6e, ah i see
23:14:44  <LordAro> "AIOrder has all its types renamed from AIOF_ prefix to just OF_ prefix."
23:14:50  <LordAro> 1.2
23:16:55  <Samu> done
23:17:09  <Samu> renamed all that to be compliant with 1.4
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23:27:44  <Samu> now i need a openttd 1.4 to really test it
23:28:18  <LordAro> you really don't need to bother :p
23:31:23  <Samu> i dont like the current pathfinder that I use
23:31:40  <Samu> doesn't build bridges over rivers and over rails
23:31:48  <Samu> it tries to contour it
23:32:11  <Samu> can i modify the pathfinder?
23:32:50  <Samu> i tested editing it
23:33:18  <Samu> but could i include it in my AI?
23:33:30  <Samu> instead of importing a library
23:33:36  <Samu> i include it in
23:34:53  <Samu> major problem in my edit is that it becomes much slower, as it tests bridge building in almost every tile
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