Config
Log for #openttd on 9th January 2019:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:01  <Samu> it's not building :(
00:02:03  <Samu> gonna try rebase
00:02:05  <Samu> brb
00:05:07  <Samu> i suck at this :(
00:05:23  <Samu> git rebase -i origin/master or upstream/master or something else
00:16:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhsRY
00:16:33  <Samu> no idea what i'm doing atm
00:16:45  <Samu> hope it starts building
00:25:30  <Samu> failed with weird errors
00:25:31  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6931/checks?check_run_id=47686467
00:25:54  <Samu> doesn't seem caused by me
00:25:58  <Samu> or are they?
00:26:19  <glx> not your fault
00:26:37  <glx> CI sometimes fails to work
00:27:16  *** Progman has quit IRC
00:28:11  <glx> 2019-01-09T00:18:08.5922077Z ##[error]*** b/src/town_cmd.cpp:910: Trailing whitespace: ' * '
00:28:18  <glx> partly your fault ;)
00:28:27  <Samu> where did u find that
00:28:41  <glx> but commit checker could be easier to understand
00:29:09  <glx> clic on the error/warning count
00:29:48  <glx> then commit-checker, then build and test
00:30:24  <Samu> ah, found it
00:30:45  <glx> but it's not your fault if win64 failed
00:31:29  <Samu> trailing whitespace? :p
00:31:37  <Samu> i blame the editor
00:33:15  <Samu> is it git rebase -i origin/master
00:33:22  <Samu> or upstream/master
00:34:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhsRY
00:35:08  <Samu> trailing whitespace is fixed
00:36:46  <glx> should be upstream, you can check with "git remote -v"
00:37:17  <glx> the one without your username is the one you want
00:38:17  <glx> usually you just need to do "git fetch upstream" then "git rebase upstream/master"
00:38:48  <glx> and if there's no conflict you're fine, else you need to solve them
00:39:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhsRY
00:39:21  <Samu> thx
00:39:26  <Samu> did just that
00:41:12  <Samu> it's not gonna build again?
00:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i set up my git to do "git pull" from original repo and "git push" to my repo
00:53:20  <Samu> uh oh assertion failed
00:53:22  <Samu> rip
00:54:56  <Samu> oh snap, the first tile also need to be checked if it's valid t.t
00:55:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: the error message is currently a bit hidden/buried.
00:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Step 1: go to https://dev.azure.com/openttd/OpenTTD/_build?definitionId=5
00:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Step 2: find your build (the most recent one is at the top), click on the failed "commit-checker" task, and there on the log with all the errors
00:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Step 3: scroll to the very bottom of the log to get the actual description of what is wrong
00:57:35  <Samu> i fixed that already, glx told me where it was
00:58:26  <Samu> i have one different problem now, a simple !IsValidTile(tile) is missing
00:58:49  <Eddi|zuHause> did you roll back the rebase again?
00:59:20  <Samu> yes, but it didn't build (yet)
00:59:55  <Samu> dont know how that azure guy works
01:00:29  <Samu> shouldn't build now that i have another fix coming up, :o
01:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it won't build if you are based on a master commit that is too old
01:01:52  <Eddi|zuHause> you must rebase to current master, and then never go back to an older master again
01:02:53  <Samu> "git fetch upstream" then "git rebase upstream/master" ? glx told me to do like this
01:04:41  <glx> if "git remote -v" says "upstream        https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD.git" then it's correct
01:06:00  <Samu> origin  https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD.git (fetch)
01:06:00  <Samu> origin  https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD.git (push)
01:06:00  <Samu> upstream        https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD.git (fetch)
01:06:00  <Samu> upstream        https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD.git (push)
01:09:24  <Samu> i have 2 upstreams
01:09:34  <peter1138> git pull upstream master
01:10:05  *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd
01:13:00  <Samu> git rebase -i upstream/master
01:13:05  <Samu> gonna try with -i
01:14:46  <Samu> $ git rebase -i upstream/master
01:14:46  <Samu> Successfully rebased and updated refs/heads/prevent-town-growth-from-blocking-ships.
01:15:05  <Samu> had 2 commits, used fixup on the later
01:15:25  <Samu> now what? git pull upstream master?
01:15:38  <Samu> git push --force?
01:16:54  <Samu> i have a 1 behind, 1 ahead
01:18:45  <Samu> Samu Committed Oct 2, 2018
01:18:55  <Samu> it's not gonna work?
01:20:14  *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC
01:20:17  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
01:21:23  <glx> no need for -i in this case, and --force will indeed work
01:23:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhsRY
01:24:11  <peter1138> I dunno, -i is useful to know if the rebase is going to do what you think it will be doing.
01:25:05  <glx> ah yes, and it's easy to stop it with -i
01:26:00  <Samu> just added the IsValidTile fix
01:26:13  <Samu> is azure building?
01:26:38  <Samu> https://dev.azure.com/openttd/OpenTTD/_build/results?buildId=174
01:26:42  <Samu> yeah it's werking
01:27:28  <Samu> forgot that bridge heads could be tried to be built outside the map
01:29:56  <Samu> generating a map with 13312 towns
01:30:05  <Samu> ought to be enough for testing
01:30:27  <peter1138> Depending on how you're testing, 1 might be enough.
01:30:55  <Samu> erm dont remember if i got 90 deg on
01:31:01  <Samu> takes 10 mins to generate map
01:31:39  <Samu> oh, actually not
01:31:46  <Samu> it's debugging much faster
01:31:51  <Samu> than in vs 2015
01:52:29  <Eddi|zuHause> if the town name generator runs out of names, it will take forever to try to generate the rest of the towns
01:53:02  <Eddi|zuHause> and even good town name generators will usually give up after about 3000 towns
01:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause> some don't even have 100
02:07:52  <Samu> somethnig really strange is happening bridges are still without problems
02:09:07  <Samu> during town generation, some bridges are initially built, then still during town generation, bridges are demolished later on
02:09:35  <Samu> as if a nearby town cleared them for some reason
02:12:47  <Samu> https://imgur.com/a/hqCAgsO
02:13:38  <Samu> top image, there are bridges, bottom image, bridges are gone, the roads towards NW seems disconnected
02:24:35  <Samu> could towns be removed during world generation?
02:25:06  <Samu> like when it's trying to place a new town near another, but the other is so big?
02:45:18  <Samu> aha found it
02:45:34  <Samu> so it's not a bug caused by me, it's something of it's own
03:10:42  *** Laedek has quit IRC
03:18:12  *** Laedek has joined #openttd
03:36:39  *** D-HUND has joined #openttd
03:40:04  *** debdog has quit IRC
03:51:28  *** qwer has joined #openttd
04:06:58  *** Samu has quit IRC
04:29:03  *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
04:50:20  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
04:58:00  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
05:14:43  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
05:19:16  *** ToBeFree has quit IRC
06:28:58  *** glx has quit IRC
07:01:31  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
07:13:29  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
07:20:54  <andythenorth> o
07:59:21  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
08:04:59  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:11:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #4449: [Windows] Fullscreen as borderless window at desktop resolution https://git.io/fhZ3n
09:11:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #4449: [Windows] Fullscreen as borderless window at desktop resolution https://git.io/fhZ3c
09:14:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #5859: Calling VehicleEnterDepot for a train frees the reservation of the depot https://git.io/fhZ30
09:17:30  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
09:24:27  <planetmaker> o/
09:24:41  <Markk> \o
10:02:42  *** Progman has joined #openttd
10:10:26  *** Taco has joined #openttd
10:21:37  *** Taco has quit IRC
10:50:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lanurmi commented on issue #4449: [Windows] Fullscreen as borderless window at desktop resolution https://git.io/fhZGR
10:51:57  <LordAro> i'm detecting some sarcasm
11:06:20  <andythenorth> I am moving on
11:06:37  <andythenorth> " as this PR is never going to get merged anyway. "
11:07:10  <andythenorth> I could argue, or I could accept I'll probably be dead 'soon'
11:07:11  <andythenorth> so fuck that
11:08:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #4449: [Windows] Fullscreen as borderless window at desktop resolution https://git.io/fhZGK
11:12:51  <LordAro> see, i definitely disagree that the issue should've been closed
11:13:16  <LordAro> it's a valid issue, that's even had significant discussion on it since the gh move
11:13:28  <planetmaker> agreed... closing might be a bit over-zealous.
11:14:29  <planetmaker> it is an issue, but not yet resolved. And as it looks won't be by the person who contributed the patches since GH move
11:14:51  <LordAro> lock it to contributors by all means
11:14:53  <planetmaker> but hey, it's andy's activity on the issue which brought it to live again in the first place
11:17:47  <andythenorth> I closed it because it's not going anywhere, and the original contributor is whining
11:17:51  <andythenorth> even before today
11:17:59  <andythenorth> bearing in mind that issues can always be retrieved
11:18:34  <peter1138> Just hide them a little bit further and pretend they're not there.
11:20:05  <andythenorth> we close about 26 PRs a month
11:20:09  <andythenorth> and add about 31
11:20:19  <andythenorth> so we're not short of things we could already ship
11:20:54  <LordAro> i don't think things should be closed just because they're "not going anywhere"
11:21:02  <andythenorth> @calc 26/31
11:21:02  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.838709677419
11:21:15  <andythenorth> there's about an 83% chance of the PR going through currently
11:21:23  * andythenorth very numbers
11:23:45  <andythenorth> LordAro: I'm not upset if they get re-opened
11:24:05  <andythenorth> I just see a pattern, might be false correlation
11:24:22  <andythenorth> in the last 2 years, the more issues I close, the more nice contributions we get :)
11:24:40  <andythenorth> you can send me the wiki link for 'cargo cult' if you want :P
12:10:15  <Eddi|zuHause> "the more drama i cause, the more activity happens" is maybe not the best correlation out there...
12:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it might have well-intended short term effects, but long-term is usually a lot more negative
12:23:03  *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
12:38:53  *** chomwitt has quit IRC
13:12:37  *** chomwitt has joined #openttd
13:18:51  *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
13:24:47  *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd
13:31:12  *** Flygon has quit IRC
13:34:11  *** Flygon_ has quit IRC
13:34:48  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
13:35:22  *** Borg has joined #openttd
13:42:48  *** Flygon has quit IRC
13:55:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7031: Add: squirrel_export.vbs https://git.io/fhZnQ
14:02:28  *** Yotson has quit IRC
14:30:01  *** wodencafe has quit IRC
14:32:48  *** wodencafe has joined #openttd
14:36:25  *** Xaroth19 has joined #openttd
14:36:52  *** Xaroth has quit IRC
14:45:52  <andythenorth> ha
14:45:56  <andythenorth> after 4 days work
14:45:58  <andythenorth> I can save time
14:52:44  *** Samu has joined #openttd
15:06:46  <Samu> hi
15:09:02  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
15:10:44  <peter1138> Has andythenorth closed #7031 yet?
15:11:15  <andythenorth> can't close any more
15:11:31  <andythenorth> have to fix my own mess next https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6698
15:11:41  <andythenorth> wiki is all very wrong
15:11:45  <andythenorth> oh wait, wikis are always wrong
15:18:05  <nielsm> good it looks like the dumb "security vuln" non-vulnerability thread has died off
15:19:48  <andythenorth>  progressive backoff of brute force attempts is fine
15:19:54  <andythenorth> that thread wasn't very helpful though
15:24:50  <andythenorth> what does misc flags bit 2....do? https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Trains#Miscellaneous_flags_.2827.29
15:31:06  *** Arveen has quit IRC
15:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> did we ever even adress the fact that the passwords are stored in plain text in memory, and a server could just dump and collect them?
15:36:18  <andythenorth> I'll find the issue
15:36:59  <nielsm> and they are transmitted plain text over the network
15:37:16  <andythenorth> gravedug https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5545
15:37:29  <andythenorth> this is definitely a thing, different, but a thing https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6193
15:38:26  <andythenorth> ok so this is relevant https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/599
15:39:25  *** Gabda has joined #openttd
15:42:20  <nielsm> if you want to store salted and hashed passwords on the server, you also need an authentication mechanism that protects against replay attacks
15:43:32  <peter1138> Fortunately it's already closed
15:43:47  <nielsm> IMO it would be more sensible to make it clear that OTTD company passwords are not secure, you should assume the server admin is able to read the password
15:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> we need to ask people about their phone numbers, email addresses and credit card numbers and store those!! that'll never cause any problems in the future!
15:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause> at the bottom of that issue it's said the passwords aren't sent clear text
15:45:14  <nielsm> then what are they?
15:45:20  <Gabda> @logs
15:45:20  <DorpsGek> Gabda: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
15:45:23  <nielsm> rot13?
15:45:45  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, i don't think i ever even looked at that part of the code
15:48:00  <Samu> gonna change variable names to make it more clear and easier to read code
15:48:13  <Samu> oh, and I have one question about where to make these checks
15:49:16  <Samu> I can check ealier, in conjunction with HasTileWaterGround or later, right before doing the build command
15:49:29  <nielsm> okay looks like the password is salted md5
15:49:29  <Samu> anyone familiar with town growth code?
15:50:07  <nielsm> the salt is calculated from server id and game seed
15:50:39  <Eddi|zuHause> not that md5 is a "safe" cryptographic algorithm or anything...
15:50:43  <andythenorth> automatic let's encrypt certs for all!
15:50:55  <andythenorth> start openttd server, generate a cert!
15:50:56  <nielsm> you may as well store it plaintext by now
15:51:07  <nielsm> instead of pretending it's secure
15:51:13  <andythenorth> nielsm: well it keeps out 7 year olds
15:51:16  <andythenorth> probably not more
15:51:30  <andythenorth> is all md5 cracked just on reverse lookups
15:51:30  <andythenorth> ?
15:51:43  <andythenorth> we used to use it to 'secure' high score tables in online games
15:51:48  <andythenorth> even then it was known vulnerable
15:51:54  <andythenorth> 15 years ago
15:51:57  <Samu> hmm
15:52:25  <andythenorth> yeah reverse lookups are a thing
15:53:29  <Gabda> hi everyone
15:54:10  <peter1138> It's a compromise. For a secure server-side hash, the server doing authentication needs to be sent the cleartext password, which therefore requires transport level encryption (such as TLS)
15:54:11  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/town_cmd.cpp find on this page for HasTileWaterGround and you find 3 places. Tell me if that is the correct place to do growing on water check
15:54:33  <Samu> or if i can do the check later on
15:54:39  <Samu> right before the DoCommands
15:55:08  <peter1138> What we do 'protects' the password in transit as it is not sent as cleartext.
15:55:13  <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/network/network.cpp#L194
15:56:03  <nielsm> but it doesn't protect against replay attacks, just makes it harder for the server admin to guess what the player typed
15:56:28  <Gabda> I found that town indexes are 2 bytes, so storing it for every tile in a cache can be painful
15:57:01  <Samu> Gabda are u familiar with town growth algorithm?
15:57:36  <Samu> the decisions that makes it follow a road, build a road or grow a house
15:57:47  <Gabda> my 11 days of experience does not cover that part yet :D
15:58:45  <Samu> ok, t.t I wanted to know exactly where I should check the GrowingOnWaterTile in the logic
15:59:05  <Samu> so far, I've been making it right before DoCommands or MakeHouse
15:59:22  <Samu> but I noticed there is a HasTileWaterGround check way before
15:59:47  <Samu> this check fails on coast tiles, so I wondered if I do the check next to those
16:00:00  <Samu> would be the correct way
16:01:02  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/town_cmd.cpp#L1266
16:01:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why a voronoi partition would help, the graph is O(#towns) size instead of O(#tiles)
16:01:15  <Samu> lines 1266, 1315 and 1340
16:01:28  <andythenorth> nielsm: replay attacks are probably relatively hard
16:01:44  <andythenorth> or at least, there are more interesting targets
16:01:45  <Eddi|zuHause> however, it only works with euclidean distance, not manhattan distance
16:01:58  <Samu> I would change them to if (HasTileWaterGround(whatever_tile) || GrowingonWateredTle(whatever_tile) return false;
16:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> and doing that with integer maths might be a bit tricky
16:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause> (can't use floats, so no "sqrt" function
16:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> )
16:02:31  <nielsm> andythenorth yes, if your intention was to grief an ottd game you probably wouldn't invest in intercepting network traffic to/from the server
16:02:50  <nielsm> (if you could do that you could do much more interesting things anyway)
16:03:23  <Samu> meh, chat is busy, bbl
16:03:33  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:04:15  <Gabda> and with manhattan distances, one domain can be really long as well, with a few tiles wide channel
16:05:23  <Eddi|zuHause> well, flood-filling the tile cache you could do with euclidean-squared distance
16:05:38  <Eddi|zuHause> that works fine for "which is bigger" comparisons
16:05:51  <Eddi|zuHause> but not the complex algebra needed for voronoi
16:06:37  <Eddi|zuHause> "complex" not in the "complex number" mathematical sense
16:07:33  <Gabda> but as the goal would be to have information on the tiles without calculation, what options do we have aside from storing it for each tile?
16:07:52  <Gabda> to have the answer in constant time instead of O(#towns)
16:09:46  *** Yotson has joined #openttd
16:10:18  <andythenorth> nielsm: +1
16:12:23  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not constant, but i don't think it's O(#towns)
16:12:44  <Eddi|zuHause> you could do O(#towns) by a simple loop over all towns
16:13:52  <nielsm> my proposal for "security": 1) allow a TLS wrapped network protocol, 2) server has a secret key it uses to scramble company passwords with to store them in the savegame
16:14:15  <nielsm> with (2) the server will be able to reload the company passwords, but anyone else getting the savegame won't be able to read them
16:14:34  <nielsm> and (1) is just generic expectations
16:15:06  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, i think you can get away with just using the squared euclidean distance
16:16:41  <Gabda> i think i have to look into the graph representation deeper to underwtand what you mean
16:16:48  <Eddi|zuHause> when i scroll through my code, i see a few divisions that might be problematic, but no sqrt
16:18:04  <Borg> wwttfff?
16:18:15  <Borg> are u guys wasting time trying to encrypt company passwords?
16:18:24  <Borg> its game.. a GAME..
16:18:26  <nielsm> Borg apparently yes
16:18:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: that's not the point
16:18:49  <Borg> except that admin can read them.. and u can sniff them.. is there an issue here?
16:18:54  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: and the point is?
16:18:58  <nielsm> I still hold the best approach is to add a note to the password entry box that the server admin may be able to read anything you enter here
16:19:08  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: the point is, people are stupid and reuse passwords that they're also using for "important" stuff
16:19:14  <Borg> bauhauhauhauahua
16:19:42  <Borg> stop protecting dumbs from natural selection..
16:19:55  <Gabda> limit the password in 5 a-z letters
16:19:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i would kickban you right now if i had op
16:20:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fhZWA
16:20:07  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: lucky.. u dont have it
16:20:46  <Gabda> noone has a pass that short, so they would need to think up a new one
16:20:54  *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd
16:21:15  <andythenorth> can borg handle the failure demand then?
16:21:16  <Gabda> and they will feel it is not that secure
16:21:19  <andythenorth> give him the support
16:21:20  <Borg> do NOT do anything.. best idea is nielsm ... a hint: password is NOT stored securly.
16:21:23  <Borg> its damn enough..
16:21:35  <Borg> its game... GAME..
16:21:40  <andythenorth> it's a game with players
16:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: people would go crazy
16:21:54  <Borg> then do NOT do anything..
16:22:01  <andythenorth> I am fine with doing nothing
16:22:02  <Borg> just do NOT waste time on such silly issue really
16:22:14  <Borg> but.. of course.. its your right to waste time :) do as you wish
16:22:20  <TrueBrain> security silly? Let me grap my popcorn, this gotta be good
16:22:29  <Borg> TrueBrain: wait...
16:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: it's by far the easier apporach to do this properly than to spend the next few years turning down requests about "why does it try to scare me?"
16:22:34  <Borg> we talk about game.. not security..
16:22:36  <andythenorth> yo TB
16:22:52  <TrueBrain> Borg: please adjust your tone; it is rather annoying. the capitalization is unneeded. The constant references to "wasting time" is bullshit in an open source community. Be polite. Be a good citizen. Be less abusive. Tnx!
16:22:57  <andythenorth> Borg: are you aware  of the context?
16:22:58  <Borg> security for me is: OpenTTD packet handling can be exploited to get a shell... that IS problem
16:23:25  <Borg> TrueBrain: yeah.. and allow idiots to take over the world.. no thank you
16:23:51  *** ToBeFree has quit IRC
16:23:56  <Borg> first RQ!
16:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Borg: you know, these kinds of "get a shell" attacks are usually chains of vulnerabilities that start with "user password is transmitted in plain text"
16:24:23  <Borg> Eddi|zuHause: uh.. did you ever done any security stuff? shell codes? injections.. whatever..
16:24:41  <Borg> belive me.. that vectors have nothing to do w/ password storage
16:24:46  <Borg> this is completly different vector
16:24:51  <Eddi|zuHause> right, we have a winner for secon... third ignore list entry
16:25:07  <Borg> andythenorth: not fully.. but still
16:25:19  <Eddi|zuHause> ah, the quietness
16:26:33  <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=84609
16:26:39  <Borg> lets read
16:26:56  <TrueBrain> hmm ... my own bot refuses to accept my credentials .. this is annoying
16:27:27  <nielsm> grr windows updates again busting my debug symbols cache
16:27:29  <Borg> andythenorth: before I will read futher.. does openttd rcon can exec anything?
16:27:49  <Borg> and.. is it by default disabled?
16:28:10  <andythenorth> dunno
16:28:23  <andythenorth> I have literally zero knowledge of ottdsec
16:28:28  <Borg> :(
16:28:34  <Borg> okey.. time to do RTFS then
16:28:34  <Borg> bbl
16:29:29  <TrueBrain> @whoami
16:29:29  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: TrueBrain
16:29:38  <TrueBrain> finally, DorpsGek, took you long enough
16:29:54  *** tycoondemon has quit IRC
16:30:11  <TrueBrain> sadly, a bit late
16:30:44  <TrueBrain> @calc 60 * 60 * 3600
16:30:44  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 12960000
16:30:46  <TrueBrain> hmm
16:30:48  <TrueBrain> that is wrong
16:30:51  <TrueBrain> @calc 60 * 60 * 25
16:30:51  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 90000
16:31:05  <TrueBrain> @kban Borg 90000 I asked nicely. Sadly, I got a not-so-nice-answer. So .. try again in 24h
16:31:06  *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~borg@87-99-43-52.internetia.net.pl
16:31:07  *** Borg was kicked by DorpsGek (I asked nicely. Sadly, I got a not-so-nice-answer. So .. try again in 24h)
16:31:10  <TrueBrain> right, that took WAY too much time
16:31:12  <TrueBrain> sorry about that
16:31:42  <TrueBrain> we might not have a CoC, but no need to be a dick
16:31:51  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't happen often enough to be a reflex? :p
16:32:01  <TrueBrain> yeah .. I lost my touch there :P
16:32:19  <peter1138> So, er, what was the issue there?
16:32:28  <LordAro> i'm inclined to agree with borg's general point, it has to be said
16:33:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm inclined to oppose his "general point"
16:33:19  <TrueBrain> I don't think his point was relevant
16:33:25  <TrueBrain> his way of delivering the message was not ... nice
16:33:41  <TrueBrain> and if someone asks you to be less .... hostile .. the wrong answer is saying "no" to that :)
16:33:43  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that needs no discussion
16:35:18  <TrueBrain> clearly it did :P
16:36:01  <peter1138> What was hostile?
16:36:13  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: ^^ :)
16:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i threatened him with kickban for no reason
16:37:13  <Eddi|zuHause> then TrueBrain appeared and kickbanned him
16:37:47  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: owh, I didnt even read that part
16:37:50  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: my point is, "it's a just game" is never an excuse to not do it properly
16:37:54  <nielsm> so yeah, anyone opposed to this? https://0x0.st/s7BC.png
16:37:54  <TrueBrain> that alone would indeed have been reason enough :)
16:38:02  <nielsm> (needs some line breaking)
16:38:24  <TrueBrain> nielsm: I like the pragmatic solution there :)
16:38:51  <nielsm> "don't use a password you care about" basically
16:38:56  <TrueBrain> long overdue
16:39:01  <TrueBrain> we had talks about that months ago already
16:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause> do we also need a GDPR blob?
16:39:16  <TrueBrain> guess we tried to solve it a bit too complicated :D
16:39:16  *** HeyCitizen has quit IRC
16:39:29  <nielsm> that's up the the individual server admin how they manage personal information :)
16:39:37  <TrueBrain> yup
16:39:48  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD's services are mostly GDPR compliant
16:39:55  <TrueBrain> I say mostly, as there is one more thing I would like to fix
16:39:58  <nielsm> include a default MOTD system via the story book? :D
16:40:22  *** HeyCitizen has joined #openttd
16:40:41  <TrueBrain> okay, I only now caught up with what the discussion was about :P
16:40:57  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean more like, when you open the multiplayer window, a popup saying "the servers are not operated by the OpenTTD team, we are not responsible with what the servers do with your data"
16:41:09  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I work for a security company; trust me if I tell you OpenTTD really needs to help people not being stupid :D
16:41:17  <TrueBrain> (IT security company)
16:41:35  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: feels a bit over the top at first, but I see your point
16:41:45  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: possibly only the first time you go there or something?
16:41:50  <TrueBrain> "good citizen"
16:41:53  <TrueBrain> good question
16:42:16  <Eddi|zuHause> like a "don't bother me again" checkbox?
16:42:27  <Eddi|zuHause> probably overkill
16:42:30  <TrueBrain> nielsm: btw, last time we talked about passwords, we figured out the best solution was an Authentication Server :D
16:42:33  <nielsm> so, how do I set a maximum width on a WWT_LABEL widget and make it automatically line break?
16:42:34  <TrueBrain> (talking about overengineering)
16:44:17  <nielsm> if I just put a line break in the label text I get this: https://0x0.st/s7M-.png
16:44:21  <TrueBrain> nielsm: another suggestion that floated by months ago, was instead of setting a password, let the server return a phrase when you want to "protect" your company
16:44:25  <TrueBrain> removing the human factor completely
16:44:26  <nielsm> line 2+ hidden
16:44:44  <andythenorth> save and return
16:44:55  <nielsm> TrueBrain, i.e. server makes a password for you?
16:44:59  <TrueBrain> yes
16:45:02  <TrueBrain> 6 numbers
16:45:04  <TrueBrain> or 6 letters
16:45:06  <TrueBrain> or something like that
16:45:07  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: there might be a "write multiline string" function?
16:45:24  <Samu> maybe dont call it password
16:45:25  <TrueBrain> you can save this easily in savegames, etc
16:45:39  <Samu> call it ... hmm pin, or so
16:45:45  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: how are people supposed to remember random strings thrown at them?
16:45:47  <TrueBrain> passphrase, pin, ...
16:45:53  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: write them down ? :D
16:46:02  <TrueBrain> it is not a security thingy
16:46:06  <TrueBrain> so that is safe :P
16:46:14  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like something unlikely to happen
16:46:50  <TrueBrain> that is indeed the biggest drawback of that method
16:47:06  <TrueBrain> (third time I agree with Eddi|zuHause today; shit is happening!)
16:47:09  <TrueBrain> :P
16:47:40  <TrueBrain> so I like the pragmatic solution nielsm is proposing :)
16:48:01  <TrueBrain> and indeed what Samu suggests .. don't call it password .. and possibly don't even mask it
16:48:06  <TrueBrain> that should give so many hints :P
16:48:38  <nielsm> it's not being masked during entry
16:48:45  <TrueBrain> good :)
16:48:45  <Samu> "access code"
16:48:55  <TrueBrain> Set the name of your animal
16:48:57  <TrueBrain> :D
16:49:11  <nielsm> secret handshake
16:49:17  <Sacro> Just use Kerberos
16:49:19  <TrueBrain> public secret handshake :P
16:49:24  <Eddi|zuHause> your mom's maiden name
16:49:27  <TrueBrain> Sacro: I await your patch :D
16:49:47  <TrueBrain> but yeah, some Authentication Server moes the trust to a single entity
16:49:52  <TrueBrain> instead of any server :P
16:49:53  <nielsm> yeah you should submit your public key to the server and authenticate your company with your private key
16:50:08  <TrueBrain> so TLS? :D
16:50:13  <TrueBrain> (with client-side certificate)
16:50:39  <Eddi|zuHause> introduce people to letsencrypt?
16:50:42  <TrueBrain> we can make an index of the public keys :)
16:50:57  <TrueBrain> and we are back to overengineering the shit out of this :P
16:51:12  <andythenorth> yay
16:51:18  <andythenorth> just don't run a server?
16:51:25  <TrueBrain> remove multiplayer!!
16:51:26  <andythenorth> do clients have any ports open etc?
16:51:31  <andythenorth> if not running server?
16:51:38  <TrueBrain> I remember the time I added code to track players ... for some reason this was not a like addition to the game :P
16:51:42  <TrueBrain> I was so naive back then
16:51:54  <andythenorth> I don't get any warnings from my OS about OpenTTD trying to use network services, but eh
16:51:56  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: clients never have ports open; servers do :)
16:52:01  <Eddi|zuHause> now for something completely differences, i have two annoyances with the CI: 1) in the log of the failed task, the whole log is repeated with [error] instead of the actual error message, and 2) the error message is not propagated to the github PR
16:52:14  <Eddi|zuHause> *different
16:52:23  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: 1) can be solved, but someone has to do that :)
16:52:32  <TrueBrain> 2) they do, but only for Windows atm
16:52:41  <TrueBrain> I am not sure we did something wrong, or Azure Pipelines are not there yet
16:52:44  <TrueBrain> but yes, it is annoying as fuck
16:53:09  *** glx has joined #openttd
16:53:09  *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx
16:53:14  <TrueBrain> hi glx :)
16:53:19  <andythenorth> so we started trying to understand how to 1
16:53:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and possibly we should run the commit checker first, and only run the other tasks after that one came out ok? for earlier failure abort
16:53:29  <Sacro> hmm
16:53:30  <andythenorth> triggered by https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7030
16:53:38  <Sacro> Disable port fowarding except via SSH tunnel
16:53:46  <Sacro> require pub key to ssh tunnel, bingol
16:53:54  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: good point, hmm .. will look into that
16:53:54  * Sacro solves the day
16:54:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: we'll have about 3 players after that change.
16:54:37  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I removed that part, as I thought: if we run it all at once, it is done quicker. But that is only for when it succeeds :D
16:54:39  <Sacro> how many more does a server need?
16:54:45  <glx> and of course a better error message TrueBrain ;)
16:54:57  * Sacro wonders if he could pay OpenTTD at work
16:54:59  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i assume the commit checker is the one failing the most often
16:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: also i noticed some random task failing because it couldn't get opengfx from mirror
16:55:17  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yeah .. I think we should make it two CIs
16:55:23  <TrueBrain> one for the commit checker, the other for the rest
16:55:30  <TrueBrain> wuth?!
16:55:34  *** synchris has joined #openttd
16:55:36  <TrueBrain> that ... should never happen
16:55:40  <TrueBrain> link me the logs in PM please
16:55:47  <TrueBrain> sadly, I have to go now, so I will look into that this weekend
16:55:52  <TrueBrain> but please tell me about these things :)
16:55:56  <TrueBrain> cannot fix what I cannot see :)
16:56:02  <andythenorth> file an issue
16:56:07  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, have to dig for that
16:56:11  <andythenorth> we have room now
16:56:32  <TrueBrain> :D
16:56:40  <TrueBrain> owh, I was going; ciao!
16:56:44  <Sacro> ttfn
16:57:15  <andythenorth> I really want to close this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/1743
16:57:27  <andythenorth> but there's a patch, it's long-standing, it's in JGRPP
16:57:32  <glx> TrueBrain: builds 153 and 173 for example
16:57:36  <andythenorth> 5.4.3.2.1
16:57:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #1743: Scenario Editor: new house feature https://git.io/fhZla
16:57:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #1743: Scenario Editor: new house feature https://git.io/fhZlV
16:58:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #3000: Allow train to find depot along reserved path https://git.io/fhZlw
16:58:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #3000: Allow train to find depot along reserved path https://git.io/fhZlr
16:58:37  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah https://dev.azure.com/openttd/OpenTTD/_build/results?buildId=173 the win64 task
16:59:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #5753: Game Script: GSText in info.nut's GetSettings() method https://git.io/fhZlS
16:59:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #5753: Game Script: GSText in info.nut's GetSettings() method https://git.io/fhZl9
17:01:03  <glx> and https://dev.azure.com/openttd/OpenTTD/_build/results?buildId=153 the win32 task failing on the dependencies
17:01:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #5875: Bananas: online content doesn't stop downloading when canceled https://git.io/fhZl7
17:01:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #5875: Bananas: online content doesn't stop downloading when canceled https://git.io/fhZl5
17:02:03  *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
17:02:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i need an IRC client that could filter the DorpsGek_II messages and display them in a different font/colour/size
17:02:28  <andythenorth> font-size: 0
17:02:50  <glx> I modified my event handler to not ding on DorpsGek_II :)
17:02:53  <Sacro> font-size: 64
17:03:11  <Sacro> prefix with /rainbow
17:03:22  <Sacro> Or was it /rsay
17:03:51  <glx> all the ding ding spam was annoying
17:04:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6095: File failed to decompress - Error window not on top https://git.io/fhZlx
17:04:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #6095: File failed to decompress - Error window not on top https://git.io/fhZlp
17:04:46  <glx> because each issue closing means 4 dings ;)
17:05:05  <glx> as I'm in .notice too
17:05:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6226: Crash when no baseset en invalid font in configuration https://git.io/fhZlh
17:05:39  <glx> and andythenorth I suggest you /nick ;)
17:05:47  <andythenorth> oof
17:05:53  *** andythenorth is now known as andythenorth_stop_ping
17:07:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6383: Bananas: "Select upgrade" for content tries to download old versions https://git.io/fhZ8f
17:07:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #6383: Bananas: "Select upgrade" for content tries to download old versions https://git.io/fhZ8J
17:07:48  *** andythenorth_stop_ping is now known as andythenorth
17:09:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6452: Locked GS parameter value can be reseted to default value https://git.io/fhZ8T
17:09:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #6452: Locked GS parameter value can be reseted to default value https://git.io/fhZ8k
17:10:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6524: Crash: passwording company https://git.io/fhZ8L
17:10:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #6524: Crash: passwording company https://git.io/fhZ8q
17:11:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6539: "Load scenario" dialog remains focusable while downloading missing online content for a scenario https://git.io/fhZ8Y
17:11:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #6539: "Load scenario" dialog remains focusable while downloading missing online content for a scenario https://git.io/fhZ8O
17:11:49  <andythenorth> just 120 left to go
17:12:00  <andythenorth> apply now, limited stocks!
17:14:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhsRY
17:16:47  <Samu> changed some variable names
17:17:12  <Samu> and with that the code seems more readable :), also made the checks to happen earlier rather than later
17:17:54  <Samu> I know I said this before, but now I believe the code is ready for review *cross fingers*
17:18:31  *** Gja has joined #openttd
17:20:43  <Samu> well, the pipeline azure dude isn't building...
17:20:51  <Samu> fail
17:21:09  * andythenorth should patch to enable flipping articulated vehicles
17:21:27  <andythenorth> but newgrf author has to handle *all* of it except the bit flip
17:22:06  <Samu> why doesn't it build? I did exactly as told
17:22:14  <Samu> git fetch upstream
17:22:24  <Samu> git rebase -i upstream/master
17:22:26  <Samu> fixup
17:22:33  <Samu> git push --force
17:23:47  <nielsm> because the pipeline is busy building other things
17:23:49  <nielsm> probably
17:24:16  <nielsm> appears not
17:25:17  <Samu> the last build was yesterday night
17:25:25  <Samu> i just pushed 10 mins ago
17:26:05  <Samu> OpenTTD CI In progress — This check has started...
17:26:07  <Samu> ah nice
17:26:13  <Samu> took him some time
17:26:48  <andythenorth> so
17:26:56  <andythenorth> after 4 days work on my pixel generator
17:27:01  <andythenorth> I am ready to draw 3 trains with it
17:27:17  <glx> ah you had time to do other stuff ?
17:27:38  <andythenorth> not really
17:27:43  <andythenorth> 24 / 7 slaving over python
17:28:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #6548: Buoys can prevent oil rig spawns https://git.io/fhZ8u
17:28:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed issue #6548: Buoys can prevent oil rig spawns https://git.io/fhZ8z
17:29:52  <planetmaker> what about... "good first issue". Such issues are relatively simple
17:30:03  <planetmaker> at least I'd think so :D
17:30:08  <planetmaker> I might completely err
17:30:43  <andythenorth> I might go re-open some later
17:30:54  <andythenorth> I think to fairly encourage 'first issue' PRs
17:31:01  <andythenorth> we have to be reviewing PRs
17:31:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #6548: Buoys can prevent oil rig spawns https://git.io/fhZ8g
17:31:10  <andythenorth> otherwise it's a bit misleading
17:31:45  *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
17:31:47  <planetmaker> true
17:31:53  <planetmaker> that's way more important
17:32:09  <andythenorth> let's review a frosch123 PR!
17:32:21  <andythenorth> it's good to encourage new contributors!
17:32:24  <planetmaker> it might simply leap into the water :)
17:32:36  <planetmaker> 1-2-3-splash
17:32:38  <andythenorth> I tested this, it works https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7018
17:32:48  <andythenorth> I can't comment on the code, or the savegame implications
17:32:51  <andythenorth> or the MP implications
17:32:57  <andythenorth> or the pathfinder risks
17:33:22  <andythenorth> but I can do maths :P
17:35:17  <andythenorth> 'probably fine'
17:35:51  <planetmaker> I don't understand how that fixes it. But I don't see how fixing that has any implications on anything relevant
17:36:02  <planetmaker> except that the game becomes more visually appealing
17:36:22  <andythenorth> the vehicle has no forward motion
17:36:26  <planetmaker> (the last 'e' in the sentence is relevant) :D
17:36:27  <andythenorth> in the fixed version
17:36:44  <andythenorth> in the non-fixed version, there is some acceleration, but the vehicle can't actually move
17:36:48  <andythenorth> so the motion counter increases
17:37:31  <andythenorth> I can't approve my own PR :P
17:37:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7018: Fix: Don't increase motion counter while train is waiting at non-path… https://git.io/fhZ8V
17:37:47  <andythenorth> thx :D
17:37:58  <andythenorth> LordAro: such merge? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7018
17:38:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker merged pull request #7018: Fix: Don't increase motion counter while train is waiting at non-path… https://git.io/fh3Nb
17:38:22  <planetmaker> oh :P Was it reserved for him?
17:38:41  <planetmaker> sorry, should that have been the case
17:38:57  <andythenorth> oh you have merge rights too :D
17:38:59  <andythenorth> great
17:39:07  * andythenorth didn't get the memo sorry
17:39:46  <planetmaker> I may not know much about github. But I could do much :P
17:40:05  <andythenorth> I like this one https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6998
17:40:12  <andythenorth> I might even use it if it's added
17:40:27  <andythenorth> new contributor also :)
17:43:19  <planetmaker> I actually would like it to read "Default company colour" as well. But feels a bit like bike shedding
17:44:03  <andythenorth> Could go on for days :)
17:44:06  <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> I don't understand how that fixes it <- imagine you are blind and run into a wall, that wall bounces you back 100 distance units and disorients you so you don't remember there was a wall. now you have 100 distance units to cover some acceleration, and inevitably hit the wall again, at a non-zero speed
17:44:23  <andythenorth> nice analogy Eddi|zuHause :P
17:44:38  <Eddi|zuHause> now with the "fix" you don't bounce 100 units back, and every attempt at accelerating will now just push against the wall
17:44:44  <andythenorth> planetmaker: this was your request originally :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7015
17:44:50  <andythenorth> I think it makes nicer desert rivers
17:45:36  <planetmaker> you made PR out of all of those? :)
17:45:57  <andythenorth> I am not *just* closing issues :)
17:46:06  <andythenorth> I am trying to get some patches through
17:46:12  <andythenorth> but I can't review if I open them
17:46:12  <andythenorth> :P
17:46:23  <andythenorth> there is a little bit more complaining about ticket closing here
17:46:32  <andythenorth> than there is making and reviewing PRs :P
17:46:36  <andythenorth> I guess irc is cheaper
17:46:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7015: Change: Desert tiles are now half-desert if a neighboured tile is non… https://git.io/fhZ8i
17:48:05  <andythenorth> \o/
17:48:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker merged pull request #7015: Change: Desert tiles are now half-desert if a neighboured tile is non… https://git.io/fh3Ho
17:48:27  <planetmaker> cleaning issue list like this is... lazy and convenient :P
17:48:33  <planetmaker> for me at least ;)
17:50:42  <andythenorth> much easier for small things
17:50:48  <andythenorth> than curl patch, blah blah
17:52:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth approved pull request #6998: Feature #4115: default company colour setting https://git.io/fhZ8A
17:52:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #6998: Feature #4115: default company colour setting https://git.io/fhZ8h
17:53:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #6848: Feature : New Trees Placement Algorithm "Forest". https://git.io/fhZ8j
17:53:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed pull request #6848: Feature : New Trees Placement Algorithm "Forest". https://git.io/fbx93
17:54:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #6846: Feature: Allow flip of train vehicles in depot independently of NewGRF property https://git.io/fhZ4J
17:54:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed pull request #6846: Feature: Allow flip of train vehicles in depot independently of NewGRF property https://git.io/f9kZm
17:55:34  <andythenorth> Samu: you going to rebase this one? o_O
17:55:34  <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6927
17:55:41  <andythenorth> personally I think these checks are boiling the ocean
17:55:47  <andythenorth> but nielsm approved it ages ago
17:55:51  <andythenorth> it just didn't get merged
17:56:18  <andythenorth> are we also going to check road construction for blocking vehicle routes?
18:01:32  <Samu> [17:55] <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6927 uhm, someone didn't like it
18:02:28  <planetmaker> someone on the internet is always wrong. Anotherone likely right
18:02:46  <andythenorth> Samu: JJ isn't a reviewer currently
18:02:51  <andythenorth> I happen to agree with JJ though
18:02:58  <andythenorth> these checks are not winning anything
18:04:11  <andythenorth> IMO: *either* fix the upstream issue (ships have no routes of any kind)
18:04:20  <andythenorth> *or* fix the downstream issue (AIs can't handle failure)
18:04:56  <Samu> that change is more geared towards AIs indeed
18:05:13  <planetmaker> it's somewhat an anti-griefing change
18:06:02  <Samu> a dock can still be blocked by other means, in that regard it's not complete
18:06:14  * planetmaker --> food
18:06:22  <andythenorth> there are 3 or 4 of these PRs
18:06:38  <andythenorth> I don't want to just reject them, because I don't want to disappoint
18:07:15  <Samu> well, i was told to make separate patches for every issue. this is one of the cases where everything makes sense together and little sense alone
18:08:05  <andythenorth> yeah
18:08:07  <andythenorth> that happens
18:08:24  <andythenorth> I guess I just go up a level and ask 'why fix this at all?'
18:09:07  <Samu> because...
18:09:32  <Samu> yeah... seems that no matter what I explain, it will seem lacking
18:10:00  <andythenorth> well you learnt a lot of code :)
18:10:37  <Samu> EnsureNoDocking would need to be checked on a global level if it is to have any real meaning
18:10:53  <Samu> currently, it's only doing that check when building docks only
18:11:12  <Samu> because that's where I saw AI's getting most problems
18:11:25  <andythenorth> I can only think that we do something like allowing players to buy sea tiles
18:11:31  <Samu> they would block each other's docking tiles
18:11:33  <andythenorth> which negates the problem, via ownnership
18:11:36  <Samu> with their own docks
18:11:45  <andythenorth> but owning tiles just allows more ways to block
18:11:46  <andythenorth> so eh
18:12:17  <andythenorth> why do we need to protect the AIs from each other? o_O
18:12:25  <Samu> from themselves as well
18:12:34  <Samu> but yeah, AI authors could do better :o
18:13:16  <andythenorth> it's probably very hard for an AI to understand why a ship is lost
18:17:08  <Xaroth19> @whoami
18:17:08  <DorpsGek> Xaroth19: I don't recognize you.
18:17:17  <Xaroth19> aww
18:17:34  *** Xaroth19 is now known as Xaroth
18:17:46  <Samu> ask nielsm what to do
18:22:22  <Xaroth> quick, run, before TrueBrain is back.
18:22:35  *** Eddi|zuHause has left #openttd
18:22:45  *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
18:22:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that was right
18:24:36  <Samu> my next step would be making it global
18:24:58  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
18:25:08  <TrueBrain> sodd off Xaroth :p
18:25:15  <Xaroth> :D :D :D :D
18:25:19  <Samu> so, im unsure what to say atm
18:25:23  <TrueBrain> <3
18:25:23  <andythenorth> I can think of literally no viable solution
18:25:26  <Xaroth> <3
18:25:34  <andythenorth> that reduces AI accidents or griefing
18:25:45  <andythenorth> without also increasing AI accidents or griefing
18:26:12  <andythenorth> we could store 'a ship has used this tile' in every water tile
18:26:18  <andythenorth> but when would we clear it?
18:26:34  <andythenorth> I have savegames with ships that take months or nearly a year to run a route
18:26:55  <andythenorth> then I can 'own' islands by running ships around them
18:27:15  <andythenorth> we could require players to buy water tiles
18:27:40  <andythenorth> but then I can trap competitor ships by buying the water
18:27:50  <Samu> i mean global, but not in that manner
18:28:10  <Samu> have all other building methods to check for DockingTiles
18:28:38  <Samu> don't think it's required to store whether a ship used a tile
18:29:12  <andythenorth> what are DockingTiles?
18:29:34  <Samu> tiles that "belong" to a dock where the ship stops to load/unload
18:30:20  <andythenorth> I see
18:30:28  <andythenorth> how does that stop ships getting trapped or blocked?
18:30:33  <andythenorth> is it 2 different issues?
18:30:48  <Samu> sec, let me create a situation
18:32:43  <Samu> https://imgur.com/3uOgGOk
18:32:49  <Samu> most AIs like to build like that
18:33:02  <Samu> the EnsureNoDockingTile would prevent it
18:33:41  *** Progman has quit IRC
18:34:18  <andythenorth> ok so that's a specific issue
18:34:27  *** Progman has joined #openttd
18:35:00  <Samu> it's what the function does, but atm, it's only checked when placing docks, and not when doing any other thing
18:35:17  <Samu> like terraforming, etc...
18:35:20  <andythenorth> AIs should try harder
18:36:14  <Samu> there could be the case where the dockting tile could belong to two different owners
18:36:20  <Samu> or even 3
18:36:28  <Samu> 3 different docks
18:36:58  <Samu> that's what stopped me from pursuing further checks
18:37:24  <Samu> i wouldn't know how to make terraform work
18:37:30  <Samu> in such situations
18:38:08  <Samu> there's also docks being build on land, the 3rd tile may not necessarily contain water (yet), until I build a canal there
18:38:18  <Samu> in front of it
18:38:35  <Samu> who would own the docking tile?
18:39:08  <Samu> the dock owner?
18:39:14  <Samu> the canal owner?
18:40:48  <Samu> would i automatically enforce the 3rd tile to become a "docking tile" even if it doesn't have water (yet)?
18:41:06  <Samu> and would i prevent someone else from building a road there, for instance?
18:42:09  <Samu> so, yeah, i'm not entirely confident to pursue a global feature
18:42:26  <Samu> unsure how I'd go at it
18:46:18  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
18:51:15  <andythenorth> recognise ocean boiling
18:53:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Ufiby commented on issue #6967: BaNaNaS: Unhandled exception when uploading new https://git.io/fhZ49
18:58:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhZ4x
19:23:57  <Samu> crap! i found a bug
19:24:18  <Samu> and i said ready for review, i hate myself
19:24:54  <Samu> i need to change a x into an y
19:24:59  <Samu> does it need rebase again?
19:26:35  <andythenorth> when do we get concerned about action 2 / varaction 2 performance? o_O
19:26:45  * andythenorth is making switches as though they have zero cost
19:28:05  <Samu> oh god I feel so bad when I fail
19:28:19  <Samu> hope no one was reviewing it yet
19:29:44  <Samu> tile_2 wasn't using diffc.y for the y coordinate
19:29:58  <Samu> was using diffc.x because i'm blind
19:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: main question there is how often the callback is called
19:30:50  <andythenorth> I suspect the impact is worse for me, compiling, than for OpenTTD
19:31:14  <andythenorth> fundamentally I'm adding a lot of branches, but the depth probably isn't that great
19:31:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhsRY
19:31:35  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you ever are at a situation where you can optimize the run time at a cost of increased compile time, do that.
19:31:50  <andythenorth> sounds awful :D
19:32:05  <andythenorth> it's kind of utilitarian though
19:32:13  *** Gja has quit IRC
19:32:41  <Samu> do I have to rebase force push again?
19:34:51  <andythenorth> when there are complex rules for which vehicle sprite to show
19:34:54  <andythenorth> then there are layers
19:35:00  <andythenorth> multiplication kicks in :P
19:35:35  <Samu> I guess I know the answer already
19:35:55  <Samu> even for a typo, i need a rebase
19:37:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6931: Change: Prevent town growth from blocking ships https://git.io/fhsRY
19:38:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the callback depth is probably most important, also the complexity of the variable calculations. the number of choices in each switch is probably irrelevant for performance
19:38:37  <andythenorth> if only we had an FPS meter....?
19:39:17  <andythenorth> :P
19:39:49  <planetmaker> we have an FF speed-o-meter
19:40:14  <andythenorth> we do
19:41:10  <andythenorth> what I could do with Eddi|zuHause is a var to compare current railtype and powerered-ness on ELRL :P
19:41:21  <andythenorth> thart would be very helpful in 1.9.0
19:41:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i should start to implement the suggestions from the ticket
19:43:32  <andythenorth> I should finish pantographs for EMUs
19:43:36  <andythenorth> I blame Eddi|zuHause and nielsm
19:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: we have a performance dislpay now
19:43:56  <andythenorth> I know, I was being silly :)
19:44:09  <andythenorth> what's the near-equivalent to sunk cost fallacy?
19:44:16  <andythenorth> when the effort will return
19:44:24  <andythenorth> but if you'd known in advance
19:44:29  <andythenorth> you might not have bothered :P
19:45:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but sometimes the effort to find out how much effort it would be is the same as just doing it
19:45:37  <andythenorth> might be a variant of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escalation_of_commitment
19:46:11  <andythenorth> making automatically generated, railtype responsive pantographs in 3 variants
19:46:17  <andythenorth> was a lot of work
19:48:24  <andythenorth> OTOH it's a solid use case for sprite layers
19:50:45  <Eddi|zuHause> "we put all this effort into sprite layers, now we must use them for something" is almost definitely a fallacy
19:53:08  <andythenorth> +1
19:53:32  <andythenorth> if the pantographs didn't have up / down states, I'd have rendered them into the vehicle sprite
19:54:05  <andythenorth> hmmm
19:54:17  *** synchris has quit IRC
19:54:20  <andythenorth> so what about user bits for train vehicles then? o_O
19:54:46  <andythenorth> need to be get / set on cb
19:55:38  <andythenorth> oh and I want a cb for 'vehicle was flipped by player' :P
19:58:46  <planetmaker> hahaha. That would solve the problem: you could then visually flip-back the vehicle and make it like it was never flipped :P
20:02:30  <andythenorth> I would count the number of flips, in a store
20:02:38  <andythenorth> mod(2) would give the actual flip state :P
20:05:47  <andythenorth> oh we didn't patch nml for 64 railtypes? o_O
20:05:54  <andythenorth> planetmaker: https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/13
20:06:08  <andythenorth> looks fine to me
20:06:35  <andythenorth> drive-by-contributions :D
20:06:50  <planetmaker> CI has not been setup?
20:06:56  <andythenorth> not yet
20:07:23  <planetmaker> oh, nml, not OpenTTD
20:07:52  <andythenorth> should maybe have CI
20:08:02  <andythenorth> runs make test?
20:13:27  <planetmaker> it would be no issue to run it on the existing CI I have for NewGRF (that's the plan - it also has tests for nml there)
20:14:11  <planetmaker> but curse V. I need to complete a factory :P
20:15:16  <andythenorth> :P
20:22:54  *** andythenorth is now known as Guest289
20:22:54  *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
20:26:37  *** Guest289 has quit IRC
20:26:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6988: Change: AI/GS ScriptBridge::GetName takes one extra parameter to refer the vehicle type https://git.io/fhfaC
20:38:54  *** Gabda has quit IRC
20:56:22  <frosch123> LordAro: function overloading and default parameters do not work in the squirrel api
20:56:46  <frosch123> the api wrapper can't handle that
20:57:18  <LordAro> shame
21:18:37  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
21:18:54  *** nielsm has quit IRC
21:28:02  *** m3henry has joined #openttd
21:37:16  *** Progman has quit IRC
21:41:06  *** gelignite has quit IRC
21:48:44  *** Progman has joined #openttd
21:51:03  <Samu> oh, really?
21:52:27  <Samu> I was going to try
21:53:02  <andythenorth> boom boom
21:53:05  * andythenorth made EMUs
21:53:27  <andythenorth> 5 days
21:53:52  <andythenorth> 'over-engineered much'
21:54:22  <planetmaker> I guess NML is just really missing the appropriate trigger at the repo... building on DevZone works...
21:54:31  <planetmaker> https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/view/DevZone/job/nml/447/console
21:56:10  * andythenorth wonders if electric steam engines are now one line change
21:58:44  <andythenorth> apparently they are
22:04:35  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
22:08:21  <planetmaker> is that another name for fuel cell trains? ;)
22:09:28  <peter1138> " Today, I can still eat: 2707 out of about 5000 cals"
22:09:35  <peter1138> fitbit, why you so mad
22:15:47  *** m3henry has quit IRC
22:20:21  *** Progman has quit IRC
22:22:49  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:30:01  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i totally forgot we have the user bits on vehicles...
22:30:26  <Eddi|zuHause> that's one of those too-specialized-to-be-useful features of NewGRFs
22:33:13  <Samu> I'm looking at nielsm suggestion
22:33:20  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...nielsmh:ship-depot-pathfinding
22:33:32  <Samu> it doesn't handle service at nearest depot
22:34:13  <Samu> what if there are 500 ship depots ? :(
22:34:59  <Samu> it will only check next depot every tile it walks into a new tile
22:35:05  <Samu> every time*
22:36:12  <Samu> i'm unsure how's this list kept refreshed, seems magic
22:38:24  <Samu> or maybe im seeing this wrong, brb
22:41:01  <Samu> ah, it pathfinds for every depot
22:41:08  <Samu> huge stalls
22:41:17  <Samu> doesn't look like a good solution
22:42:00  <Samu> i dont know about my solution stallness either, must check
22:58:25  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
23:00:39  <Samu> bah
23:00:47  <Samu> conflicts
23:00:55  <Samu> can't rebase
23:01:24  <Samu> i hate command line interface, i have no idea where to look at
23:01:56  <Samu> someone edited NPF code recently
23:02:04  <Samu> now my old stuff conflicts
23:02:14  <Samu> on svn i would know how to handle this
23:02:18  <Samu> but on git, i have no idea
23:06:59  <Samu> it tells me to resolve conflicts
23:07:08  <Samu> i dont even know what's conflicting
23:07:32  <Samu> well i know, but i don't have a file, or something i can see
23:26:47  <Samu> how do I see the conflicts? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:find-closest-reachable-ship-depot
23:56:25  <LordAro> Samu: https://help.github.com/articles/resolving-a-merge-conflict-using-the-command-line/
23:56:57  <LordAro> also https://help.github.com/articles/about-merge-conflicts/ and various other pages i'm sure you can manage to google yourself

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk