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Log for #openttd on 14th January 2019:
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00:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i was just trying to sort out the capitalisation and then i drew a complete blank on how capitalisation is meant to work...
00:04:52  <Eddi|zuHause> would be easier if someone else did this, my brain is for some weird reason not able to do this
00:08:17  <Eddi|zuHause> gonna --abort this, makes no sense like this
00:09:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145 https://git.io/vpxjO
00:11:11  <peter1138> ^ LordAro
00:11:49  <LordAro> :)
00:18:13  <peter1138> One day I might post something other than food on Instagram. But not today.
00:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause> one day you upgrade for sublte advertising?
00:24:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7057: Fix: A few minor compile warnings under MinGW https://git.io/fhnHW
00:32:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7031: Add: squirrel_export.vbs https://git.io/fhnH4
00:34:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7031: Add: squirrel_export.vbs https://git.io/fhnHR
00:34:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7031: Add: squirrel_export.vbs https://git.io/fhZnQ
00:59:21  <Samu> wow, opf search method is really retarded
00:59:56  <Samu> without all the randoms choices, it just go straight until it finds an obstacle
01:00:03  <Samu> then it makes a turn
01:00:11  <Samu> usually turns back
01:02:09  <Samu> bird distance isn't used to help it make better choices
01:02:14  <Samu> why
01:02:56  <Samu> im no pathfinder expert
01:03:05  <Samu> but it's weird
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01:09:16  <peter1138> It's designed to be low CPU usage.
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01:18:26  <Samu> oh? and then it ends up being the most intensive
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01:21:40  <peter1138> How so?
01:21:52  <Samu> i guess the random choices makes it look "smarter"
01:22:11  <peter1138> They make it more likely to get there, heh.
01:22:28  <Samu> on my 5000 ship testing, OPF is too slow
01:22:50  <Samu> compared with the other 2
01:23:31  <Samu> but the test uses many buoys, so it could influence results
01:29:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7057: Fix: A few minor compile warnings under MinGW https://git.io/fhnQv
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01:38:06  <Samu> just managed to decrease the stall from 14 seconds to 5 seconds
01:38:14  <Samu> for opf
01:38:45  <Samu> that means, npf is the worst when mass sending 5000 ships to depot
01:39:22  <Samu> also with 14 seconds
01:40:46  <Samu> why is this a DoCommand, it tests before executing, so basically, it's 10000 ships
01:41:00  <Samu> does the same work twice
01:42:11  <Samu> @calc 23.656 - 9.015
01:42:11  <DorpsGek> Samu: 14.641
01:42:23  <Samu> npf still stalls for 14 seconds
01:43:51  <Samu> @calc 30.156 - 25.421
01:43:51  <DorpsGek> Samu: 4.735
01:44:07  <Samu> opf stalls for ~5 seconds
01:45:18  <Samu> @calc 31.906 - 45.406
01:45:18  <DorpsGek> Samu: -13.5
01:45:32  <Samu> @calc 31.906 - 34.406
01:45:32  <DorpsGek> Samu: -2.5
01:45:48  <Samu> 2.5 secs for yapf, the king
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01:48:37  <Samu> mass sending 5000 ships to depot results:
01:48:53  <Samu> opf - 4.7 secs
01:48:59  <Samu> npf - 14,6 secs
01:49:04  <Samu> yapf - 2,5 secs
01:49:47  <Samu> must investigate what's so bad about npf for such a long stall
01:57:33  <peter1138> Did you investigate the underlying algorithms behind OPF, NPF and YAPF?
01:59:28  <Samu> in ship_cmd.cpp?
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02:00:20  <peter1138> No, in the pathfinding code, heh.
02:00:31  <peter1138> Are you aware that NPF and YAPF are basically the same pathfinding algorithm?
02:00:41  <peter1138> OPF isn't.
02:00:57  <Samu> that's even stranger
02:01:17  <glx> NPF and YAPF are implementations of A*
02:04:54  <Samu> i dont know how to properly time a single search
02:06:34  <peter1138> NPF is a simple literal approach to the algorithm.
02:07:07  <peter1138> YAPF is heavily optimized by using C++ templating and implementing a cache.
02:07:49  <peter1138> So, yeah, YAPF is faster than NPF... by design.
02:08:38  <Samu> what does the cache do?
02:08:47  <peter1138> What does a cache normally do?
02:09:08  <Samu> but in this case, feels like cache isn't doing anything yet
02:09:15  <Samu> or is it?
02:26:03  <Samu> there is no cache for ships, or i dont understand whether it's working
02:29:47  <Samu> CYapfShipAnyDepot2::stFindNearestDepot = 0x00007ff615ebb360 {openttd.exe!CYapfFollowShipT<CYapfShip_TypesT<CYapfShipAnyDepot2,CFollowTrackT<2,Ship,1,0>,CNodeList_HashTableT<CYapfShipNodeT<CYapfNodeKeyExitDir>,10,12>,CYapfDestinationAnyDepotShipT> >::stFindNearestDepot(const Ship *, unsigned int, T...
02:29:54  <Samu> now in english, plz :p
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03:06:20  <Samu> can't spot any cache being worked
03:07:02  <Samu> i think this cache is only for rail
03:07:11  <Samu> caches track segments?
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03:38:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #6928: Fix #5713: Use pathfinder to find closest ship depot https://git.io/fhZzm
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07:35:00  <peter1138> He should be a pathfinder expert by now.
07:35:25  <peter1138> I fear though that he hasn't figured out there's a built-in profiling mode for one of them.
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08:02:00  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I have a custom python sort challenge
08:02:19  <andythenorth> current implementation is "sorted(wagon_consists, key=lambda wagon_consist: wagon_consist.subtype)"
08:02:38  <andythenorth> subtypes are 'A', 'B', 'C', or 'U'
08:03:08  <andythenorth> I want sort rank to be 'U', 'A', 'B', 'C'
08:03:15  <andythenorth> I thought of at least two bad ways to do it
08:03:55  <andythenorth> but presumably sort can be given a custom comparison, such that U < A, U < B, U < C, and A B C remain lexical w.r.t each other
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09:17:44  <peter1138> Hmm.
09:37:26  <planetmaker> moin moin
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11:11:28  <peter1138> Anything left to close?
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11:24:02  <andythenorth> nothing
11:24:05  <andythenorth> all closed
11:28:14  <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6811
11:28:15  <andythenorth> ;)
11:43:50  <peter1138> Ah
11:43:55  <peter1138> Stale ;p
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13:12:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] claman commented on pull request #18: Change copyright date to use site.time https://git.io/fhnxE
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13:29:35  <andythenorth> close it!
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13:52:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 updated pull request #7047: Add #6887: Highlight tiles within local authority of towns https://git.io/fhn44
14:01:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7025: Add #6887: Option to show zone inside local authority boundary of towns https://git.io/fhnpz
14:04:43  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: depends how "exdentable" you need it, but as a start how about "sorted(wagon_consists, key=lambda wagon_consist: {"U": 1, "A": 2, "B": 3, "C": 4}[wagon_consist.subtype])"
14:05:10  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: looks good I'll try
14:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause> you could also fiddle around with rexex
14:07:03  <Eddi|zuHause> or you could rename the subtypes so they are lexical ordering to begin with
14:07:38  <andythenorth> that was my crude solution
14:07:45  <andythenorth> but yours works, and is highly readable
14:08:28  <andythenorth> thanks
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14:17:59  <Gabda> @logs
14:18:00  <DorpsGek> Gabda: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
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14:58:44  <Samu> hi
15:01:11  <Samu> how do I measure the time a code part takes to complete?
15:02:11  <Samu> need to investigate why npf stalls for too long
15:03:12  <Samu> want to know where exactly the slowdown comes from
15:05:49  <LordAro> Samu: the thing you want to google is "profiling"
15:05:58  <LordAro> and probably add "visual studio"
15:09:26  <Samu> diagnostic tools?
15:17:19  <milek7> i use gperftools
15:18:33  <nielsm> visual studio community should have microsoft's profiler built in
15:18:50  <nielsm> just keep in mind it can take a LOT of memory/storage to capture a profiling run
15:27:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhnjW
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15:41:41  <Samu> dont know how to make it work
15:42:07  <Samu> it always says no code was run during selected time range
15:42:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhnj7
15:52:04  <Samu> this is a lie https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2016/02/15/analyze-cpu-memory-while-debugging/
15:52:13  <Samu> i always get no code was run during selected time range
16:00:49  <peter1138> Hmm, on my old server, I have an svn checkout from 2009 that contains patches to increase the cargo limit to 64...
16:12:24  <Sacro> I have many old files
16:12:37  <Sacro> Like the MiniIN
16:14:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin updated pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhLFX
16:14:16  <peter1138> Heh
16:14:28  <peter1138> Simulation rate: 34.30 frames/s
16:14:32  <peter1138> Hmm, seems fast :/
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16:16:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] gregcarlin commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fhce5
16:16:53  <peter1138> 1.02x
16:20:39  <Sacro> Running it in NTSC?
16:20:44  <peter1138> heh
16:20:58  <peter1138> It is running in a VM though.
16:21:08  <peter1138> Urgh, why is window resizing so broken.
16:21:19  <peter1138> Oh I remember, SDL doesn't technically support it.
16:21:36  <peter1138> It recreates the window every time. Some window managers cope.
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16:58:34  <peter1138> Urgh, I really show clean up my stashes.
16:59:21  <peter1138> show -> should
16:59:57  <nielsm> status: https://0x0.st/shsw.png
17:01:08  <Samu> the slower part of yapf is memset ?
17:01:12  <Samu> I dont get this
17:03:28  <peter1138> nielsm, nice.
17:03:41  <nielsm> Samu: means it spends a lot of time zeroing memory, I guess
17:05:17  <nielsm> reversing little programs like this is an oddly fun kind of puzzle
17:06:09  <nielsm> taking guesses at what some things are/do, then try building a skeleton program for that, then deriving some more meaning from the original, blindly re-implementing code you don't understand, and then slowly getting to an understanding
17:06:18  <nielsm> I'm sure you can get better at it with practice :)
17:07:08  <peter1138> Surely you just try something once, realise it doesn't work, keeping try, still doesn't work, then give up and move on to something else?
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17:09:02  <Samu> in debug mode these times are skewed
17:11:48  <Samu> what takes 2.5 secs in release mode takes 40 secs in debug mode
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17:16:22  <peter1138> That's because it's a debug build.
17:17:29  <Samu> https://imgur.com/FcpS2Zd
17:17:39  <Samu> sending 5000 ships to depots with NPF
17:18:03  <Samu> takes a spike of 14,112 s selected
17:18:16  <Samu> I'm not sure where to look at
17:19:36  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Hmm, on my old server, I have an svn checkout from 2009 that contains patches to increase the cargo limit to 64... <-- to whom should that be a surprise?
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17:23:08  <peter1138> )
17:23:09  <peter1138> :)
17:30:03  <peter1138> Hmm, got a stash here that attempts to implement a path cache for ships.
17:30:59  <Samu> i was able to filter out memset stuff
17:31:34  <Samu> https://imgur.com/a/TWnoS92 top - npf, middle - opf, bottom - yapf
17:31:52  <Samu> ah, memset was only shown on debug mode, i guess
17:32:44  <Samu> i'm still unsure what numbers are important
17:33:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there were more people who attempted ship pathfinder optimisations
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17:35:27  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, now even "Der Spiegel" is citing xkcd
17:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (that's one of the largest news magazines and one of the largest news websites in germany)
17:37:08  <Samu> the slower part of NPF is BinaryHeap::Delete and Has
17:37:12  <Samu> Hash::FindNode
17:37:53  <Samu> doesn't look like stuff I should care about
17:38:00  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause, correct horse battery stable?
17:38:34  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: no, it's about protein folding, and they cited the "now imagine folding a live one"
17:39:01  <Eddi|zuHause> http://xkcd.com/1430/
17:42:43  <Samu> the slow part is queue.cpp, I never touched this file
17:42:52  <Samu> dont even know for sure what's doing
17:43:15  <nielsm> it's a data structure for a priority queue, I believe
17:43:28  <Samu> it has BinaryHeap and Hash
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17:44:15  <Samu> BinaryHeap sounds familiar, I had that thing on my AI, and switched to Fibonacci
17:44:17  <nielsm> and it's likely the part that takes up the most time because stuffing elements into a queue and taking them out again might be the basis of the algorithm
17:45:07  <Samu> now, i dunno anything about the hash
17:46:20  <Samu> There's nothing I can do here then :(
17:48:48  <Samu>  * Deletes the item from the queue. priority should be specified if
17:48:48  <Samu>  * known, which speeds up the deleting for some queue's. Should be -1
17:48:48  <Samu>  * if not known.
17:49:01  <Samu> that's a funny comment, it ends being the slowest part of NPF
17:49:21  <Samu> bool BinaryHeap::Delete(void *item, int priority)
17:49:30  <Samu> ok, enough of this
17:49:36  <peter1138> Don't bother trying to optimise NPF. YAPF exists for a reason.
17:50:03  <Samu> yapf was the fastest
17:50:09  <peter1138> Odd that!
17:50:12  <Samu> thx for yapf
17:50:15  <Samu> maker
17:50:46  <Samu> and yesterday I just shoved off 10 seconds from opf
17:50:57  <Samu> with that code update
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18:11:03  <Wolf01> o/
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18:15:10  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I think it's a bit that I don't visit the forum... I don't remember the snow this winter
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18:17:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ABCRic commented on issue #4115: Default company color setting https://git.io/fhcfK
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18:32:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #4115: Default company color setting https://git.io/fhcfh
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18:34:27  <andythenorth> o/
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18:40:18  <andythenorth> I did a terrible thing
18:41:08  <Samu> to repent, test my pr's
18:41:24  <Eddi|zuHause> how could you!
18:41:51  <andythenorth> I went onto LinkedIn
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18:42:28  <andythenorth> then...I messaged Yexo in it
18:43:00  <LordAro> :o
18:43:03  <andythenorth> peter1138: yo
18:43:22  <LordAro> andythenorth: any particular purpose?
18:43:28  <andythenorth> LordAro: none at all
18:43:46  <andythenorth> my favourite things to do have no purpose
18:44:09  <nnyby> haha same i feel
18:47:09  <LordAro> andythenorth: excellent
18:48:42  <Samu> i have some patches here that i'm scared to PR
18:48:56  <Samu> because I know already they're not gonna be accepted
18:49:03  <Samu> but they are done :(
18:50:25  <peter1138> Yo?
18:50:56  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:DistanceTransportedGoodsIncome
18:51:05  <Samu> for example that one
18:52:44  <andythenorth> peter1138: open source clone of Chocks Away?  I could ask him if he wants to help.... https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-hutchings-8820346/
18:53:19  <nielsm> some of the code this compiler has generated is completely baffling... "and     al, 0FFh"
18:53:19  <peter1138> Requires me to sign in.
18:53:32  <nielsm> al is a byte register, and'ing it with FFh is a no-op
18:53:41  <peter1138> nielsm, sets CPU registers though, no?
18:53:58  <nielsm> touching al should not touch ah
18:54:01  <peter1138> Dunno though.
18:54:06  <andythenorth> nielsm: LinkedIn such very evil
18:54:07  <nielsm> though it should clear the top 16 bits of eax
18:54:20  * andythenorth wonders if MS will merge LinkedIn and github
18:54:26  <andythenorth> it's the obvious step
18:54:46  <nielsm> GitIn
18:55:00  <peter1138> nielsm, I mean the FLAGS register. I dunno if it does.
18:55:05  <andythenorth> free recruiter spam with every PR
18:55:21  <nielsm> yeah no, the next thing it does it pushing ax to set up a function call
18:56:19  <dwfreed> nielsm: https://stackoverflow.com/a/45362396
18:57:11  <Samu> theres microphone support on openttd now=
18:58:01  <Samu> something from X Audio?
18:58:51  <nielsm> dwfreed: honestly I should just stop being shocked that a C compiler from 1994 (or earlier) generates bad code
19:00:07  <nielsm> Samu: no, xaudio is only used for sound out, as an alternative to dsound on windows
19:00:22  <nielsm> (because it makes it easier to port to UWP or something)
19:03:39  <Samu> Severity	Code	Description	Project	File	Line	Suppression State
19:03:39  <Samu> Warning	C4146	unary minus operator applied to unsigned type, result still unsigned (compiling source file ..\src\map.cpp)	openttd	d:\openttd\openttd github\openttd\src\core\math_func.hpp	85
19:03:53  <Samu> this wasn't here yesterday
19:05:35  <Samu> gonna try rebuild all
19:05:42  <Samu> getting weird errors
19:07:22  <Samu> identifier "uint" is undefined?
19:08:49  <Samu> it built now
19:08:58  <Samu> sorry all, false alarm
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19:13:39  <Samu> i failed to do a push --force
19:13:45  <Samu> bah
19:13:54  <Samu> became a merge
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19:16:48  <Wolf01> I failed to raise my kitten, became a dog :D
19:16:55  <andythenorth> fair comment
19:17:10  <andythenorth> so...Horse
19:17:27  <andythenorth> EMUs: same speed as DMUs, or same speed as electric pax engines?
19:17:43  <andythenorth> [Horse has two speed classes - normal and express]
19:17:54  <Wolf01> No, for real, it brings back what you throw and can be brought outside with a leash
19:19:25  <andythenorth> ha
19:19:26  <nielsm> EMUs same speed as DMUs but better acceleration
19:19:38  <andythenorth> nielsm: yeah that's what I coded
19:19:47  *** k-man has joined #openttd
19:19:51  <andythenorth> ok
19:20:46  <Samu> how do i do a git push --force on visual studio?
19:21:03  <Samu> team explorer
19:21:28  <Samu> Sync wasn't it, turned out it was a merge
19:23:47  * andythenorth builds in a BAD EGG
19:23:52  <andythenorth> it's like a BAD FEATURE
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19:29:13  <Samu> how do i delete a branch and leave no trace about it?
19:29:22  <andythenorth> branch -D generally
19:29:29  <andythenorth> but read the scm pages first
19:29:31  <Samu> i was only experimenting
19:29:38  <andythenorth> https://git-scm.com/doc
19:29:58  <Samu> now i see some of my old deleted branches still listed as "deleted"
19:30:26  <andythenorth> dunno
19:30:30  <andythenorth> :)
19:38:28  <Samu> github.com doesn't really delete my stuff
19:38:52  <andythenorth> branch -D, force push
19:38:55  <andythenorth> usually considered rude
19:38:56  <andythenorth> but eh
19:38:57  <Samu> it leaves it hiden somewhere, allowing me to restore later
19:39:26  <Samu> it's stuff already implemented, so i dont need to keep these branches
19:40:12  <Samu> Team Explorer on visual studio apparently deletes them for good
19:43:00  <Samu> https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/branches/all?page=1 good, they're gone
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19:52:54  <Samu> always commits ahead and commits behind :(
19:53:17  <Samu> do I have to rebase everyday force -push all the time?
19:54:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145 https://git.io/fhcqA
19:55:16  <LordAro> Samu: in practice, you only need to rebase when something else interferes with something that you've done
19:55:37  <Samu> wow there's more ppl working on ship stuff
19:55:55  <Samu> ah, i see
19:56:15  <LordAro> i.e. if misc_gui.cpp has been modified in master, and you've been fiddling with pathfinders, they're unlikely to interfere
19:56:52  <LordAro> but these interactions aren't easy to see in advance, so it's best practice to rebase often
19:57:10  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145 https://git.io/vpxjO
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19:57:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #6145: High CPU usage for ships with empty orders https://git.io/fhcmI
19:57:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #6145: High CPU usage for ships with empty orders https://git.io/fhcmL
19:57:43  <Samu> those changes look scary as heck
19:57:45  <Samu> rip ships
19:57:51  <LordAro> haha
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19:58:44  <LordAro> as an example, the above will definitely interfere with the stuff you've been playing with :)
19:59:04  <glx> and you also rebase if you need to add something to the PR, but rebase just to rebase is useless
19:59:51  <Samu> if (v->dest_tile == 0 || DistanceManhattan(tile, v->dest_tile) > SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE + 5) { using distance manhattan like this is gonna be a disaster waiting to happen, but let me test
20:00:24  <glx> "add something" as a new commit, or an modified commit
20:00:32  <LordAro> Samu: why do you think so?
20:00:41  <LordAro> distance manhattan is a very simple calculation
20:00:58  <Samu> the pathfinder may find a path that makes the ship move the opposite direction
20:01:15  <glx> yes if it's shorter
20:01:17  <Samu> if the distancemanhattan check triggers.... rip ship
20:03:22  <LordAro> it was discussed in the PR (or possibly here) - you already can't set orders further than SHIP_MAX_ORDER_DISTANCE apart, so it shouldn't make any difference
20:04:13  <LordAro> but you're welcome to test these things
20:04:29  <LordAro> (or indeed, comment on PRs)
20:04:59  <andythenorth> but the video here is awesome https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6145#issuecomment-379453516
20:05:54  <LordAro> hehe
20:06:20  <LordAro> i am actually curious what would happen if you try to send to depot when the nearest depot is > 130 tiles away
20:07:07  <andythenorth> easy to test
20:07:37  <LordAro> *hopefully* it will say "cannot find depot", rather than just stopping the ship
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20:17:50  <andythenorth> BAD EASTER
20:18:00  * andythenorth realises simple things aren't simple :P
20:18:10  <andythenorth> cb36 loops are banned for obvious reasons
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20:35:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhnon
20:36:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhc3S
20:38:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhc3F
20:40:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhcsI
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20:56:05  <andythenorth> quak
20:56:16  <LordAro> quark
20:56:19  <frosch123> moo
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21:05:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhcZY
21:05:19  <nielsm> most important purpose of the dev console in a browser: fixing pages with eye-searing styling
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21:06:08  <nielsm> this OPL3 reference page (despite it being OPL2 this is programming) was blue background white text, and any time after reading for more than 10 seconds my eyes would blank over when I turned to something else
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21:06:29  <LordAro> ouch
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21:12:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhcZ9
21:12:37  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
21:14:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7056: Change #6060: Allow drawing dropdown lists with scrollbars above and fix scrolling movement https://git.io/fhcZd
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21:27:57  <glx> ok mingw-w64 command line limit is 32000, the depand command with args but without source files is 8312, source files list is 25155
21:28:14  <glx> not surprising the command line is too long
21:29:25  <glx> and I filtered out all non -D from CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS
21:30:06  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
21:30:22  <Eddi|zuHause> why would you even build a command line this huge and expect it to work?
21:30:33  <glx> makefile does it
21:30:40  <LordAro> glx: i've not seen anything like that, how long are your paths?
21:30:57  <glx> D:/developpement/GitHub/glx22/OpenTTD/src/
21:31:11  <glx> not short
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21:31:51  <glx> 399 files in the list ;)
21:31:59  <Eddi|zuHause> not short, but also not excessively long
21:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause> my "ancient DOS tricks" tells me you might want to try "subst" :p
21:33:03  <glx> I think I can use $(words) and friends to split in smaller parts
21:33:26  <glx> depend seems to have a -a flag for appending
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21:35:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i would put my effort in trying to reduce the number of arguments
21:35:47  <glx> not possible
21:35:49  <Eddi|zuHause> like calling it in a loop
21:35:56  <Eddi|zuHause> once for each file
21:35:57  <Eddi|zuHause> or something
21:36:08  <nielsm> xargs does this afaik?
21:36:25  <glx> ha yes that's why I intended to use $(word) and $(wordlist)
21:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what abyss you're delving into, though
21:36:57  <glx> something like http://softwareswirl.blogspot.com/2009/10/gnu-make-trick-for-handling-long-lists.html
21:37:17  <LordAro> depend may want altering to use a file listing inputs or something
21:37:51  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, put the names into a file, and read that?
21:38:14  <LordAro> it's the less hacky solution, anyway
21:38:17  <LordAro> imo
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21:45:05  <glx> modifying depend could work, but as it's also possible to use makedepend it's not the solution
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21:55:34  <Samu> just tested
21:55:41  <Samu> it's not good
21:56:36  <Samu> distance manhattan is the reason why pathfinders get lost
21:57:00  <Samu> this ship i'm testing is currently not invoking the pathfinder
21:57:12  <Samu> it is a miracle it still finds its way to destination
21:58:00  <Samu> goes forward, reaches the map border, makes some turns, reaches the other map border, and it finally gets moving in a direction that will make the pathfinder be invoked again
21:58:22  <nielsm> someone should be using more buoys
21:58:24  <Samu> then it gets to its destination, after doing some weird turns
21:59:45  <LordAro> mm
22:00:17  <Samu> i'm not sure, it doesn't feel right
22:00:50  <Samu> but yeah, buoys being the solution for ships :(
22:04:16  <Samu> buoys could be abused :( but i kind of like the idea of buoys being a guidance for pathfinders
22:06:04  <Samu> gonna try making buoys a negative penalty, essentially turning them into a bonus
22:07:08  <LordAro> that's unlikely to improve pathfinder performance, if that's what you're trying
22:08:46  <Samu> let me test
22:11:52  <Samu> oh, it's a npf exclusive feature
22:11:55  <Samu> very well
22:12:04  <Samu> i thought yapf had it
22:13:48  <Samu> doesn't let me add negative values
22:13:50  <Samu> boo
22:14:28  <LordAro> heh
22:15:43  <Samu> cost -= _settings_game.pf.npf.npf_buoy_penalty; // A small /*penalty */ bonus for going over buoys
22:15:52  <Samu> let's see
22:16:04  <nielsm> oh, I think I'm almost code complete for the adlib music decoder, except for a bunch of static tables I need to copy over
22:17:42  <Samu> doesn't work
22:18:21  <Samu> aystar asserts warning me that new_g > 0 failed
22:18:36  <milek7> hm
22:18:40  <milek7> i commited git merge
22:18:42  <milek7> and now i want to undo it and perform conflict resolution of single file again
22:20:11  <milek7> but reset will obviously throw away all changes
22:20:36  <LordAro> rebase!
22:20:48  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, modifying commits is rebase
22:20:52  <LordAro> alternatively, reset --soft
22:21:07  <LordAro> if the commit is still local
22:21:13  <Samu> i use the recycle bin
22:21:18  <Samu> and clone again
22:21:22  <Samu> works everytime
22:21:30  <LordAro> good ol' Samu
22:21:57  <Samu> if i want to go back to stuff I had, i take it back from recycle bin
22:22:47  <milek7> ok, maybe reset to before merge, start merge, checkout good files from new commit, resolve bad file and commit
22:23:30  <LordAro> milek7: that's probably what i'd do
22:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need reset if you rebase
22:29:05  <Eddi|zuHause> just carefully consider what the target of the rebase is
22:29:07  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: except in this case you're literally removing a commit, rebase isn't the right solution
22:29:33  <Eddi|zuHause> in a rebase you can drop a commit
22:30:01  <LordAro> you can, but eh
22:33:39  <peter1138> Evenig
22:33:50  <Samu> hi
22:34:05  <LordAro> o/
22:34:08  <peter1138> 22:20 < milek7> but reset will obviously throw away all changes
22:34:12  <peter1138> ^ it doesn't
22:36:25  <milek7> it won't allow me to use merge with dirty working tree after soft/mixed, and i wanted to get file with conflict markers again
22:39:07  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
22:39:23  <nielsm> will it crash or burn, or will sound actually be produced???
22:39:26  <nielsm> time to try it
22:39:55  <nielsm> nothing happens :D
22:40:02  <nielsm> at least nothing audible or visual
22:40:11  <peter1138> Samu, I didn't aim to improve pathfinder performance because that's a hard task. I aimed to prevent some situations that cause massive CPU usage from occuring. (But not all)
22:42:16  <nielsm> yeah I forgot to call Start on the driver :P
22:42:24  <peter1138> Heh
22:42:39  <LordAro> heh
22:45:08  <Samu> just decreate max number of nodes
22:45:45  <Samu> it's defaulted to 10000, maybe 5000? dunno
22:45:54  <LordAro> "just"
22:46:01  <Samu> :p
22:46:34  <Samu> or maybe, an idea
22:46:45  <Samu> have the pathfinder invoked on order insertion
22:47:09  <Samu> let it decide whether destination is too far
22:48:15  <Samu> hmm
22:49:39  <Samu> would kill opf
22:49:59  <LordAro> few would mourn its loss
22:50:51  <peter1138> So there is a remaining CPU hog issue.
22:51:23  <peter1138> Trying to find a path to a tile that is within the max distance but actually not reachable causes a hitch.
22:52:24  <LordAro> presumably because it's searching the whole map?
22:52:34  <peter1138> I wonder how many new bug reports #6784 will cause :D
22:52:42  <LordAro> ono
22:52:59  <peter1138> Not the whole map but enough. And it'll happen on every new tile.
22:53:15  <LordAro> oof
22:53:28  <peter1138> Well, that's why ship pathfinding already sucks.
22:53:31  <peter1138> It happens on every new tile.
22:53:41  <peter1138> Hence I have a patch to cache paths, but it's very much WIP.
22:53:45  <LordAro> that does seem inefficient
22:54:09  <LordAro> i was thinking that it should cache paths, then follow them until there's something in the way
22:54:23  <peter1138> Yup.
22:55:00  <peter1138> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/b98887c4a014d5bc193b0c1089b3ac0334187775 < "solves" a lot
22:55:02  <nielsm> if it's within range but no path could be found, set a counter that indicates "temporarily lost" and random walk until that counter reaches zero?
22:55:10  <nielsm> and/or send a news message
22:55:41  <LordAro> would still cause a hitch every n tiles
22:55:43  <peter1138> It spreads the load out, so you don't get 5000 pathfinding attempts in one tick.
22:56:00  <LordAro> some sort of limit on the pathfinder would work
22:56:14  <peter1138> There's a distance limit already, iirc.
22:56:26  <peter1138> Or at least, there is now :)
22:56:29  <Samu> have you tried my ship pathfinding depot stuff yet?
22:56:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the main problem with the ship pathfinder is the large number of near-identical paths
22:57:03  <peter1138> Hmm, yes, if it's with-in range, I'm not sure how far the pathfinder will actually go.
22:57:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the second problem is that it is repeated on every tile, as every tile is a junction
22:57:33  <LordAro> peter1138: yeah, referring to your "within range but unreachable" case
22:57:41  <peter1138> Yeah, sorry, sidetracked.
22:58:01  <peter1138> Hmm, we could do with a way to cancel a "Manage list" -> "Send to Depot" command.
22:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and "no path exists" is always the worst case for a pathfinder
22:59:58  <peter1138> I think my changes my scupper Samu's testing :p
23:00:02  <peter1138> *may
23:00:05  <Samu> i like the idea of caching path
23:00:21  <peter1138> That's what I asked you to attempt to do last year.
23:00:26  <Samu> keep working on it, it was also something I had in mind, but with limited code skills I didn't bother
23:00:37  <peter1138> heh
23:00:57  <peter1138> I think it did actually sort of work, but kept crashing.
23:03:02  <LordAro> i think pathfinder limit of x5 order length limit would work? (i.e. if the points are at max distance: https://i.imgur.com/qLkK2Fu.png )
23:03:15  * LordAro is better at paint than andy
23:04:24  <peter1138> Just make ships behave like triremes in civilization. If they get lost, they actually get lost, and disappear...
23:04:32  <LordAro> :D
23:05:00  <peter1138> o_O ... this patch adds a std::stack<Trackdir> path to struct Ship.
23:05:10  <peter1138> Well I can try it :)
23:05:16  <LordAro> ha
23:05:41  <LordAro> well, depends on its usage :p
23:09:00  <nielsm> okay well, now it does _something_: https://0x0.st/shoR.webm
23:09:06  <Samu> er, i made a review, maybe i wanted to post single comment, my bad
23:09:10  <nielsm> as the name says, it's very original
23:09:29  <LordAro> Samu: is fine either way
23:09:37  <peter1138> Nice tremolo attect.
23:09:39  <peter1138> affect...
23:09:42  <LordAro> Samu: you do have to submit the review though
23:09:50  <peter1138> I only had one pint, I don't think it's alcohol making me typo.
23:10:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, "ad libitum" means "do what you want" :p
23:10:21  <LordAro> nielsm: well it's not complete garbage :p
23:10:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #6784: Ship cpu hog workaround for #6145 https://git.io/fhcEN
23:10:34  <Samu> ah there it is
23:10:41  <nielsm> LordAro, ship it?
23:10:47  <peter1138> Little bit late after it's been merged.
23:10:56  <LordAro> nielsm: damn right
23:11:15  <LordAro> Samu: commenting on merged PRs is rarely worthwhile
23:11:30  <LordAro> possibly better off making an issue
23:11:31  <peter1138> Open an issue referencing the PR.
23:11:48  <Samu> pl
23:11:49  <Samu> ok
23:12:33  <nielsm> pushed to my adlib-music branch :3
23:12:43  <nielsm> and now I see the time is past midnight
23:12:45  <peter1138> push early, push often
23:12:48  <peter1138> It's not, it's 23:12
23:13:10  <nielsm> it's later than I ought to be in bed
23:13:33  <peter1138> Pfft, have a cup of tea. It's your witching hour, where good ideas come to fruition.
23:13:47  <peter1138> I'm cheating, I have fennel tea.
23:14:07  * LordAro looks at his mug
23:14:15  <LordAro> oh hey, still some tea in here
23:14:21  * LordAro necks it
23:14:26  <LordAro> mm, stone cold tea
23:14:36  <peter1138> I must remember to not actually drink caffeine after, say, 2 or 3pm.
23:14:52  <peter1138> Weirdly, stone cold tea isn't too bad to drink *when you're expecting it*
23:15:15  <LordAro> that's probably how i'd describe it :p
23:15:26  <LordAro> i have a tendency to forget my tea
23:15:47  <Eddi|zuHause> call it "ice tea"?
23:16:20  <peter1138> Iced tea with... milk. Hmm...
23:16:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7062: Ship wasn't lost in 1.8.0 https://git.io/fhcuR
23:16:31  <peter1138> LordAro, same. Especially as I have a bucket mugg too.
23:16:44  <Samu> sorry, i'm terrible at using the website
23:16:53  <peter1138> -g
23:17:01  <LordAro> Samu: use your words
23:17:06  <LordAro> that issue doesn't say anything at all
23:17:08  * peter1138 ponders replying to #7062, or playing Minecraft.
23:17:13  <LordAro> and relies on context that's only here
23:17:33  <peter1138> Wow, yeah, that's terrible.
23:17:53  <LordAro> Samu: the detail you use when responding to comments on your PRs is excellent, use that
23:17:58  <Samu> i dont know how to link stuff with each other
23:18:09  <peter1138> No need to link. Just write text.
23:18:15  <peter1138> Add some detail
23:18:28  <peter1138> Where were you trying to do. What happened. What did you expect?
23:18:35  <LordAro> https://help.github.com/articles/autolinked-references-and-urls/ but also this
23:19:00  <peter1138> Oh it's raining in Minecraft :/
23:19:20  <peter1138> And your title is bogus.
23:19:35  <peter1138> It should say what is happening now, not what wasn't happening in some older version.
23:20:17  <Eddi|zuHause> for some reason when it's raining in minecraft i have the urge to go fishing
23:20:23  <peter1138> Erm...
23:20:34  <peter1138> You realise I literally just picked up my fishing rod...
23:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i pulled a crazy good bow out with the fishing rod
23:21:16  <Samu> i'm blocked, can't think properly
23:21:47  <Eddi|zuHause> and after updating beyond 1.8 i could even repair it
23:22:21  <peter1138> I'm always on latest release.
23:22:39  <Samu> is this a better edit?
23:23:00  <LordAro> still needs more detail
23:23:02  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that was the latest release back then
23:23:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't play often
23:25:01  <Samu> i think im gonna copy paste irc text
23:25:15  <Samu> can't think properly
23:25:17  <LordAro> Samu: pictures are more helpful than savegames as well
23:27:18  <Samu> ok
23:27:35  <LordAro> well, sometimes
23:27:44  <LordAro> not to say that the savegame isn't useful
23:28:06  <peter1138> Damn it, I keep picking up... fish.
23:28:21  <peter1138> Oh and two water bottles. Nothing interesting :(
23:32:18  <Samu> some of the AIs in this situation would mass even more ships
23:32:30  <Samu> Trans or otvi
23:32:40  <Samu> they would all be lost
23:35:19  <Samu> because there's more cargo waiting at stations
23:35:57  <Samu> when the ship comes back, it reinvokes the pathfinder
23:36:02  <Samu> and gets lost again
23:37:33  <Samu> thx for the edit LardAro
23:37:37  <Samu> LordAro
23:39:52  <Samu> the only solution is path cache
23:39:59  <Samu> (i think)
23:40:46  <Samu> a means to avoid pathfinder being called every tile
23:42:43  <LordAro> as well as removing the manhattan check, i can see that working
23:42:50  <LordAro> caching the paths would improve things generally
23:44:50  <peter1138> The issue is actually that the orders should be invalid.
23:44:57  <peter1138> Buoys are necessary.
23:45:41  <peter1138> 22:46 < Samu> have the pathfinder invoked on order insertion
23:45:54  <peter1138> Would help...
23:46:10  <peter1138> But not if the map is changed later.
23:46:37  <peter1138> The ship is lost because its destination is too far. You need buoys.
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23:47:31  <LordAro> peter1138: but if the order was valid beforehand...
23:47:42  <LordAro> it would be a shame to break saves like that
23:47:54  <peter1138> It's not valid, it just worked because we didn't check properly.
23:48:27  <peter1138> Of course you can remove that check, but then you get performance hits again.
23:48:42  * LordAro is reminded of a Linus "never break userland" rant
23:49:25  <Samu> it does comes back into range only to have the pathfinder make him lost again
23:49:53  <Samu> so, buoys :(
23:51:13  <peter1138> Were always necessary in this situation
23:51:29  <Samu> nop, it's not lost in 1.8.0
23:51:47  <peter1138> Not what I meant.
23:51:54  <LordAro> peter1138: well, they were only necessary because of the bad pathfinder
23:52:36  <Samu> i think the savegame is 1.8.0 compatible
23:53:22  <peter1138> LordAro, of course, in this particular map the pathfinder wouldn't have too much trouble.
23:53:34  <peter1138> Open spaces of water is the issue.
23:54:09  <LordAro> how hard would it be to make the pathfinder prefer the shoreline?
23:54:33  <Samu> costs
23:54:43  <Eddi|zuHause> how would that help anyone?
23:54:54  <Samu> with costs, it's doable, somehow
23:55:15  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: less open spaces of water
23:55:24  <Samu> but then it would have to detect coast tiles
23:55:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't reduce the search space
23:55:37  <Samu> do more checks every tile
23:55:56  <Eddi|zuHause> just make it find worse paths
23:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause> to reduce the search space across open water, you could try to merge tiles into 2^n square superblocks that contain no obstacles
23:59:02  <Eddi|zuHause> store the size of the superblock in the tile
23:59:19  <Eddi|zuHause> upon changing water (clearing, flooding), invalidate the nearby superblocks, and recalculate
23:59:49  <LordAro> mm

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