Config
Log for #openttd on 23rd January 2019:
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00:00:53  <glx> Samu: maybe too late but ^.*STR_AI_CONFIG_HUMAN_PLAYER.*$ should get the whole line
00:02:37  <Samu> yeah, too late
00:07:19  <glx> you used the export scripts ?
00:15:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul https://git.io/fhaU8
00:16:20  <Samu> export scripts? no, what is that?
00:17:13  <Samu> Edit > Find and Replace > Replace in Files
00:17:20  <Samu> went here on visual studio
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00:18:18  <glx> I mean squirrel_export and generate_widget
00:18:56  <Samu> no
00:19:01  <Samu> manual edit
00:19:11  <Samu> a long long time ago
00:30:43  <glx> using the scripts I get the same src/script/api changes than your manual edits
00:31:11  <glx> (generate_widget is not runnable in current master)
00:32:53  <glx> but you can run squirrel_export.vbs yourself, it's better to use "cscript squirrel_export.vbs" if you don't want to be assaulted by message boxes in case many changes happen
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02:17:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas opened pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
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03:53:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] claman commented on issue #25: Many hardcoded URLs https://git.io/fhasL
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06:41:06  <peter1138> But "^.*STR_AI_CONFIG_HUMAN_PLAYER.*$" is the same as... "STR_AI_CONFIG_HUMAN_PLAYER" ...
07:02:44  <peter1138> TrueBrain, will there be Linux binaries for nightlies?
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07:36:58  <andythenorth> moin
07:38:37  <Pikka> noim
07:41:04  <andythenorth> :o
07:41:09  <andythenorth> they allowed Pikka back
07:41:23  <Pikka> time off for good behaviour, or something
07:41:27  <andythenorth> how's pineappple land?  40 degreees?
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07:41:31  <andythenorth> 97%?
07:41:42  <Pikka> only 34 today
07:41:50  <Pikka> practically sub-arctic
07:41:55  <andythenorth> dunno if I'm jealous or not
07:42:10  <andythenorth> it's 3 here and dark
07:42:37  <peter1138> -0.3 at the moment.
07:42:50  <andythenorth> ugh
07:43:27  <andythenorth> Pikka: so what's the go? :)
07:43:32  <andythenorth> more politics?
07:43:39  <andythenorth> educashion?
07:44:31  <Pikka> some of each, I think. Internships for uni this year, which could be fun.
07:44:40  <Pikka> also HSTs
07:45:10  <andythenorth> column A, column B
07:45:19  <andythenorth> hmm why did I delete HSTs?
07:45:32  <Pikka> something about mail capacity
07:46:05  <andythenorth> mumble mumble
07:46:17  <Pikka> I didn't put mail capacity in mine, let people use them on coal trains if they want to ;)
07:46:30  <andythenorth> nah, it's because I have an 8/8 pax engine already with ~3000hp
07:46:42  <andythenorth> so a 16/8 HST engine at 4500hp wins nothing
07:46:48  <Pikka> hmmm
07:47:11  <andythenorth> that could change, but pulling that thread....changes everything else :P
07:47:26  <andythenorth> anyone know if Horse is done yet?
07:47:58  <Pikka> yes, adding a delticoid will blunt the HST somewhat
07:48:30  <andythenorth> I could get over my obsession with integer lengths
07:48:38  <andythenorth> and do a 12/8 HST
07:48:40  <andythenorth> meh
07:49:58  <Pikka> eh
07:51:15  <Pikka> at least with real-world vehicles, I can blame redundancy on "realism" :)
07:52:00  <andythenorth> yair
07:52:44  <Pikka> also I decided to be stricter about 20th century, so the Voyager is out and the HST becomes an end-game vehicle :P
07:53:28  * Pikka bbs
07:53:32  <andythenorth> you need more bi-mode :P
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08:18:36  <andythenorth> bbls
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09:00:22  <andythenorth> Pikka bob
09:08:15  <peter1138> Hey Pikka, have you considered not deleting all your website content every couple of months? :/
09:08:47  <andythenorth> serves faster though
09:08:52  <peter1138> True that.
09:11:11  <andythenorth> delete the web
09:11:15  <andythenorth> imagine the speed of it
09:23:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7077: Change: Always build baseset metadata, instead of including it in the repo. https://git.io/fhzn8
09:23:10  <peter1138> Super.
09:24:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7077: Change: Always build baseset metadata, instead of including it in the repo. https://git.io/fhaEd
09:24:45  <peter1138> Azure being shit again :p
09:25:30  <peter1138> anybody knows why  #7077 - my stuff that wasn't build?
09:25:53  <peter1138> I'm sorry Samu.
09:26:31  <andythenorth> super
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09:30:10  <peter1138> Lunch time yet?
09:30:30  <andythenorth> yes
09:32:44  <peter1138> Great.
09:33:52  <peter1138> Hmm, should I crack on with work, or look at #6811? :p
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09:36:32  <Pikka> well
09:36:41  <Pikka> I thought I was going to do something else with the website
09:36:43  <Pikka> but then I didn't
09:37:15  <andythenorth> peter1138: bit of column A, bit of column B?
09:37:16  <Pikka> so I put the previous last post back :)
09:37:22  <andythenorth> how urgent / fun is the work? o_O
09:40:13  <andythenorth> Pikka: signs Horse might be done...
09:40:24  <andythenorth> I spent a day making EMUs go faster if you attach the right engine
09:41:19  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9252/horse_tc_madness.png
09:42:04  <Pikka> wasn't there something about redrawing all the steam locomotives? ;)
09:42:12  <andythenorth> oh yes, they're not done
09:42:15  <andythenorth> oof
09:42:33  <andythenorth> also I considered 'brake force', but it turns out Snail already did it
09:42:54  <andythenorth> I even considered....variable running costs :o
09:43:16  <Pikka> :D
09:46:20  * Pikka go make dins
10:11:58  <peter1138> We need brake force in game :/
10:12:19  <peter1138> I just have no idea how to properly implement it :p
10:13:06  <peter1138> Hmm, work out how many tiles it'll take to stop at the current speed, and then reserve those extra tiles. Somehow.
10:13:50  <peter1138> If (reservation length < braking length) try reserving further, else start slowing down
10:13:55  <peter1138> Hmm, that may actually work.
10:14:16  <peter1138> It would also make path signals stay green longer.
10:15:06  <peter1138> Not sure about slopes.
10:16:47  <andythenorth> can we have acceleration (torque) *and* deceleration (brake force)? :P
10:16:56  <peter1138> I'd approve #7085 but Azure hasn't run that either.
10:17:07  <peter1138> andythenorth, please!
10:17:15  <peter1138> andythenorth, but is there a sensible default for torque?
10:17:21  <andythenorth> yeah but no but
10:17:27  <peter1138> Is it currently "infinite"?
10:17:44  <andythenorth> can't remember, let me look in ground_vehicle :P
10:18:00  <peter1138> I think it would be, as it's just mass and max_te.
10:18:07  <peter1138> & power.
10:19:02  <peter1138> Would it be an absolute value or a coefficient?
10:19:07  <andythenorth> coefficient I think
10:19:12  <andythenorth> I looked into real physics of it, but eh
10:19:22  <andythenorth> it just needs to be a bonus / malus for vehicles
10:19:25  <andythenorth> I've tested in-game, and TE factor is pretty pointless
10:19:46  <andythenorth> TE only makes a gameplay difference on slopes where the vehicle is already down near lowest speed
10:19:53  <andythenorth> this is correct physics afaict also
10:22:13  <andythenorth> gameplay result is that given a choice of similar engines, you should always pick the engine with most HP
10:45:23  <peter1138> Our slopes aren't long enough
10:45:37  <peter1138> It makes a difference when a heavy train is on a slope
10:45:58  <peter1138> This is why the freight trains factor exists, to artifically inflate the gradient.
10:46:25  <andythenorth> I tested it quite a bit, it's only a factor at lower speeds
10:46:32  <peter1138> Maybe it would be better to apply to the whole train, not just the weight of freight
10:46:35  <andythenorth> matches the real physics also
10:46:37  <peter1138> Yes
10:46:45  <peter1138> Torque is also such a factor
10:46:49  <andythenorth> once TE is 'enough', HP is the major factor IRL
10:46:50  <andythenorth> BUT
10:46:53  <peter1138> Yes
10:47:00  <andythenorth> real vehicles have limitations like rotation speed of components
10:47:12  <andythenorth> I don't want to model that
10:47:15  <peter1138> That's why we have a max-speed property
10:47:24  <andythenorth> I just want the option to nerf the acceleration of fast trains
10:47:40  <peter1138> So torque to limit acceleration.
10:47:43  <andythenorth> yair
10:47:48  <andythenorth> IC125 accelerates slowly :P
10:47:52  <andythenorth> due to high gearing
10:47:56  <peter1138> If it's a coefficient, what is it a coefficient of?
10:48:19  <andythenorth> dunno, I tried to figure it out, irl the physics equations don't account for it
10:48:24  <peter1138> If it's an absolute value, that kinda makes more sense and easier to fit in.
10:48:39  <andythenorth> because HP is just derived from torque * speed / 5252 or something
10:48:40  * andythenorth looks
10:50:03  <andythenorth> https://danielmiessler.com/study/horsepower/
10:50:07  <andythenorth> Horsepower = (Torque x RPMs) / 5252
10:50:50  <peter1138> Stupid units :p
10:51:04  <peter1138> We don't simulate RPMs of course.
10:51:09  <andythenorth> well we have speed
10:51:28  <andythenorth> which is related to RPMS by pi* r^2 I guess
10:51:29  <peter1138> Should we simulate gearing?
10:51:32  <andythenorth> dunno
10:51:55  <andythenorth> does your 29-er get off the line faster than your BMX?
10:52:02  <andythenorth> given the same peter1138 on the pedals?
10:52:16  <peter1138> Errr
10:52:19  <peter1138> I don't have a BMX.
10:52:29  <peter1138> So I can't tell you.
10:52:37  <peter1138> Probably :p
10:52:55  <andythenorth> I never understood why
10:53:00  <peter1138> Could you simulate gearing by using different max torques at different speeds?
10:53:02  <andythenorth> probs
10:53:08  <andythenorth> I don't understand the IRL maths
10:53:17  <andythenorth> the smaller wheel is easier to spin, but travels less far
10:53:18  <peter1138> I'm not sure that'd work.,
10:53:28  <andythenorth> so why doesn't the maths net out to same result?
10:53:35  <andythenorth> is it because r^2 ?
10:53:36  <peter1138> Because it's not just the wheel.
10:53:39  <andythenorth> where is Eddi|zuHause :P
10:54:16  <andythenorth> isn't work done / time going to come out the same at the end?
11:33:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure what you're trying to get here
11:34:29  <andythenorth> 1. understanding
11:34:45  <andythenorth> 2. more ability to differentiate low speed / high speed engines
11:35:53  <Eddi|zuHause> the max rotation speed of the motor comes usually from other factors, so the gear ratio directly translates that into a max vehicle speed
11:36:08  <andythenorth> yes
11:36:42  <andythenorth> those factors aren't captured by f = ma or HP = (torque * rpm) / 5252
11:36:53  <andythenorth> FWIW
11:37:54  <Eddi|zuHause> at low speeds speed is limited by max TE (wheels slipping on the rails), and at higher speeds it is limited by power/speed - friction > 0
11:38:35  <andythenorth> - electric motors produce max torque at stall, and are limited on rotation speed, primarily by back EMF
11:38:49  <andythenorth> - diesel engines produce more torque at higher speeds, but have a fixed RPM range
11:39:06  <andythenorth> - steam engines with cylinders are limited by the rotational speed of the wheel bearing and other motion parts
11:39:51  <andythenorth> so much RL :P
11:40:12  <Eddi|zuHause> that needs a more detailed physics emulation
11:40:36  <andythenorth> well, sticking to 'how does RL work'...
11:40:45  <andythenorth> if an electric motor can deliver 100HP at stall
11:40:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not a physicist
11:40:58  <andythenorth> why does the gearing affect acceleration?
11:41:59  <andythenorth> 2:1 will produce twice the torque of 1:1, but the RPMs will be half
11:42:10  <andythenorth> so distance travelled over time should be equal in both cases
11:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc it moves the point where power/speed takes over from max TE
11:43:48  <andythenorth> web pages I'm reading say "this isn't intuitive, unless you're newton" :P
11:43:55  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't remember in which direction
11:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but really, i'm not the person to discuss this. if you find one, please show me the results :p
11:45:21  <andythenorth> ha ha
11:45:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think with diesel engines, you want to reach a minimum RPM as quick as possible
11:46:11  <andythenorth> you want to keep the RPM in the efficient power band, which can be very narrow on large diesels
11:46:32  <andythenorth> it varies a bit by transmission type (hydraulic, mechanical, electrical)
11:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause> with higher gearing, you can reach that RPM quicker, but you lose max speed from the max RPM
11:46:58  <andythenorth> if it's diesel electric, the key factor is rotational speed of the traction motor
11:47:35  <andythenorth> hmm, so IRL, you can put max stall torque through any electric motor, but not for long
11:48:02  <Eddi|zuHause> there's an I^2 t thing with electric motors
11:48:09  <peter1138> Bzzzzz Fizz Boom.
11:48:16  <andythenorth> magic smoke escapes
11:48:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no real clue what that does, but it regulates how much current can flow in which timespan
11:49:20  <Eddi|zuHause> which in my limited experience means "if the motor didn't move for 5s, it cuts out"
11:49:24  <andythenorth> there are factors like thermal performance, degradation of the windings
11:49:27  <andythenorth> and risk of flashover
11:49:38  <andythenorth> flashover tends to lead to late arrival of vehicle at destination :P
11:49:53  <Eddi|zuHause> brb
11:49:56  <andythenorth> so lower gearing means you can put max torque through the traction motor for longer
11:50:28  <andythenorth> somewhere in ground_vehicle I want to add 'torque factor' and default it to 1 :P
11:51:12  <peter1138> Hmm, wonder if I can make jenkins do my deployment on tags.
11:51:35  <andythenorth> green light deploy? :P
11:53:17  <peter1138> I don't deploy directly, but it'd be nice to be able to use the build result in jenkins rather than just building locally.
11:53:59  <andythenorth> artefacts?
11:58:22  <andythenorth> so https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/ground_vehicle.cpp#L153
11:59:18  <andythenorth> force = force * torque_factor :P
12:00:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on issue #7042: Use intrinsics for bit twiddling? https://git.io/fhay6
12:12:00  <peter1138> Is it a factor or a maximum?
12:12:21  <peter1138> If it's a factor, you might as well just specify a lower power.
12:14:08  <andythenorth> if the power is too low, they don't appear to reach max speed, but yeah
12:14:16  <peter1138> Quite
12:14:41  <andythenorth> don't we have to have enough power to overcome resistance?
12:14:51  <peter1138> Yes.
12:15:03  <peter1138> That's what the kickoff acceleration is about.
12:15:36  <peter1138> Well, that actually means, "err, speed is zero, we can't divide by 0, so just apply max welly"
12:23:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhaQC
12:23:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhaQu
12:26:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhaQD
12:28:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhaQF
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12:28:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhaQb
12:29:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fha7v
12:33:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fha7Y
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12:41:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fha71
12:43:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fha7h
12:53:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fha5X
12:55:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fha5d
12:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think what you're looking for is a more dynamic calculation of "power", instead of assuming a constant power over all circumstances
12:58:50  <andythenorth> I wonder if it's a torque curve
12:59:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z dismissed a review for pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhu7c
12:59:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhI7h
12:59:14  <andythenorth> literally putting numbers through L160 of ground_vehicle.cpp to see how it works
13:01:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhadg
13:02:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhadV
13:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there is two main things to consider: 1) how the power output changes with internal RPM, and 2) how the power output changes by runtime
13:05:08  <andythenorth> I wonder if speed is enough of a proxy
13:05:36  <andythenorth> currently all vehicles will develop max power at low speed
13:05:55  <andythenorth> but depending on transmission characteristics, that's not the case for all RL vehicles
13:09:54  <peter1138> It's okay for electrics, but not diesels. I have no idea about steam.
13:11:52  <Eddi|zuHause> CI not working again?
13:12:14  <peter1138> Indeed :/
13:12:24  <peter1138> TrueBrain, probably hasn't logged in recently enough :/
13:12:29  <peter1138> That requirement is fecking dumb.
13:12:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhaFC
13:12:50  <Eddi|zuHause> we really need a bot for that
13:12:59  <andythenorth> mechanical turk :
13:13:21  <andythenorth> https://thedailywtf.com/articles/ITAPPMONROBOT
13:13:22  <Eddi|zuHause> one of those birds that flip up and down
13:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> like in the simpsons
13:16:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhaFK
13:17:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhaFD
13:17:25  <andythenorth> so...a parametric equation for torque vs speed? :P
13:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can you check whether #7000 still works for you? (remember new var number and bitshift)
13:20:25  <andythenorth> yes, but not now :)
13:20:28  <andythenorth> I broke...everything
13:20:57  <peter1138> Putting "rm -rf $PATH" in a Makefile feels dirty.
13:21:21  <andythenorth> what could go wrong?
13:21:23  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: "what's the worst thing that can happen"?
13:21:32  <andythenorth> I've seen a video of recursive rm -r
13:22:16  <peter1138> Needs -r because directories, needs -f because it's removing a git clone which by default has files which are not writable.
13:22:25  <Eddi|zuHause> I HERD U LIEK RECURSION SO WE PUT SOME RECURSION IN UR RECURSION?
13:22:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhabn
13:22:36  <peter1138> $PATH comes from mktemp -d
13:23:27  <andythenorth> is it lunch?
13:23:28  <andythenorth> again?
13:23:35  <peter1138> Basically this is: make temp directory, clone release repo into it, delete files, copy current files, add to git, commit to git, make tag, push to git, remove temp directory
13:23:50  <peter1138> andythenorth, again, yes. I already ate, but I have some food left over.
13:23:57  <Eddi|zuHause> there was a case a few years ago where a broken "make install" instead of "rm -rf /path" did "rm -rf / path"
13:24:09  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, that's the worry.
13:24:24  <andythenorth> I had pork and rice, now I might have mac and cheese
13:24:28  <andythenorth> just snacks really
13:24:41  <peter1138> I had, um, salad, and a cheese salad roll, and some fruit cake.
13:25:13  <peter1138> I have left 3 items of fruit, and 4 various "bars" of minimal goodness.
13:25:17  <andythenorth> oof I let unit tests use all my CPU cores
13:25:20  <andythenorth> very noisy fan now
13:25:30  <andythenorth> can hear it even with headphones on
13:25:38  <peter1138> Worst is the white chocolate Lion bar.
13:25:42  <andythenorth> wat?
13:26:03  <andythenorth> you have Big Clive level of snacks
13:26:22  <peter1138> I bring them in with my lunch but have stopped eating all of them with lunch. So I have a pile.
13:26:55  <andythenorth> in my office, other people would eat them
13:27:05  <peter1138> They're in my personal drawer, so fuck them.
13:27:17  <peter1138> There is a blueberry muffin the kitchen, free to anyone who dares first.
13:27:27  <peter1138> That's worse than anything in my pile.
13:29:13  <andythenorth> oh yeah here's the thing I made https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9253/TE_vs_HP.png
13:29:25  <andythenorth> both trains left depot at same time
13:29:58  <peter1138> Yeah.
13:30:05  <andythenorth> whatever the reality is
13:30:16  <andythenorth> I want to nerf train 7 a bit, without stopping it reaching max speed
13:30:25  <andythenorth> I don't care about the physics, except to understand it
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13:30:51  <peter1138> Train stats are hard to find. I bet torque is near impossible.
13:31:26  <andythenorth> probs
13:31:55  <peter1138> https://i.imgur.com/e1FH1wu.jpg
13:31:57  <andythenorth> actually, rather than nerfing train 7, I want to get train 6 accelerating faster
13:32:04  <andythenorth> so a bonus
13:32:40  <andythenorth> if train 7 tries to put all it's HP down, it should slip
13:32:47  <andythenorth> IRL
13:33:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis commented on pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector https://git.io/fhaNC
13:33:52  <peter1138> Yeah but max te is quite high.
13:34:26  <peter1138> You could make slopes steeper but I'm assuming you're only using slopes to make the effects more obvious.
13:34:32  <andythenorth> yes
13:34:59  <andythenorth> I tested longer trains to see the effect of max TE, and it really only shows when both trains are on their knees
13:37:12  <andythenorth> what's L161 doing? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/c3dbe836b40215d48691356d7bf1298217ba8edc/src/ground_vehicle.cpp#L161
13:37:38  <peter1138> It's limiting force to max_te, when accelerating.
13:38:18  <andythenorth> so we can't exceed x kN force
13:38:18  <peter1138> That's pretty much all max_te does.
13:38:22  <peter1138> Yeah.
13:38:37  <andythenorth> ok
13:38:41  * andythenorth does some maths
13:39:13  <andythenorth> ok so train 7 is actually pretty close to being capped by TE
13:39:15  <peter1138> Maybe a possible issue? max_te isn't affected by slopes.
13:39:31  <andythenorth> @calc (3200 * 18) / (50 * 5)
13:39:31  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 230.4
13:39:44  <andythenorth> max TE on that engine is 235kN
13:39:54  <andythenorth> is force in N or kN?
13:40:11  <peter1138> It says N there
13:40:16  <andythenorth> it does
13:40:32  <peter1138> So resistance goes up because of the slope
13:40:50  <andythenorth> yes
13:41:44  <peter1138> Means max_te is reached with less speed.
13:42:05  <andythenorth> ok max_te is in N apparently
13:42:29  <peter1138> That's what it says :p
13:43:22  <andythenorth> I was reading L61 too :P
13:43:23  <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/ground_vehicle.cpp#L61
13:44:13  <peter1138> That's the one that was 1000 * 10 until fairly recently.
13:44:19  <peter1138> IIRC
13:46:11  <peter1138>                 return _settings_game.vehicle.train_slope_steepness;
13:46:18  <peter1138> Oh! That already is a setting. Nice.
13:46:27  <andythenorth> yes
13:46:31  <andythenorth> same for RVs too
13:53:24  <andythenorth> @calc (3000 * 18) / (50 * 5)
13:53:24  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 216
13:53:46  <peter1138> I think I'll have a kiwi fruit for a snack later.
13:54:04  <peter1138> Yeah.
13:54:08  <andythenorth> happy times
13:54:32  <peter1138> I can't remember how accurate *18/5 is :p
13:54:36  <andythenorth> I think I'll try adjusting "speed * 5" to see if interesting results happen
13:55:05  <andythenorth> it's not supposed to be Trainz, right? :P
13:56:22  <peter1138> It's not a magic equation, it's just a conversion done integerly.
13:58:10  <andythenorth> yup
14:10:30  <andythenorth> well
14:12:53  <andythenorth> I changed the 5 to 1
14:12:54  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9255/TE_vs_HP-speed-factor-1a.png
14:12:57  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9254/TE_vs_HP-speed-factor-1b.png
14:13:04  <andythenorth> got the desired result
14:13:14  <andythenorth> but it's very 'magic numbers' and specific to 2 trains
14:13:23  <andythenorth> and untested for slope steepness blah blah
14:14:10  <andythenorth> the 65mph train gets to 65mph faster than the 105mph train
14:16:08  <andythenorth> given enough tiles, the 105mph train then passes it
14:16:40  <andythenorth> if they're both capped to 65mph, the 105mph train is worse, even though it has more HP, it loses due to lower TE
14:17:12  <andythenorth> afaict, the main effect is moving the point where force > max TE
14:17:34  <andythenorth> with bonus unknown side effects :(
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14:22:58  <Samu> hi
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14:27:42  <supermop_work> hello
14:30:21  <Samu> To do:
14:30:21  <Samu> - Use the Dice.png provived by Supermop reflecting a random ai script to replace the newspaper icon.
14:30:26  <Samu> :(
14:30:44  <Samu> i still dont know how to do this
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14:34:15  <supermop_work> hello andythenorth
14:34:29  <andythenorth> yo
14:34:51  <Pikka> yoyo
14:35:40  <andythenorth> walk the dog
14:37:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on issue #7042: Use intrinsics for bit twiddling? https://git.io/fhVej
14:38:51  <supermop_work> hst looks good Pikka
14:39:17  <Pikka> o/
14:42:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
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14:44:08  <Samu> Flyspray clean up, so closing thanks. If this offends, discuss in irc, thanks.
14:44:19  <Samu> I am offended,
14:44:21  <Samu> j/k
14:47:04  <peter1138> andythenorth, increase the slope factor instead. Cos *18/5 is based on physics ;p
14:47:50  * andythenorth tries
14:52:58  <andythenorth> slope just nerfs them both :)
14:53:09  <andythenorth> the one with less TE eventually gives up
14:53:15  <andythenorth> before the one with more TE
14:53:42  <andythenorth> but it's 1mph vs about 13mph
14:56:02  <Samu> how do you title Reverses in commit message?
14:56:12  <Samu> "Revert: blah"?
14:56:27  <Samu> wanna avoid commit checker failure
14:57:24  <milek7> Add|Feature|Change|Remove|Codechange|Cleanup|Fix|Revert|Doc|Update|Prepare
14:57:25  <andythenorth> you don't afaik
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14:57:49  <andythenorth> you shouldn't need to have a revert commit, and you can get in a mess doing them
14:58:16  * andythenorth speaks with experience :P
14:58:26  <Samu> Remove seems more fitting
14:58:36  <Samu> it wasn't something that was in master
14:58:48  <Samu> but on my pr
15:00:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul https://git.io/fh2dV
15:01:29  <milek7> you probably should squash it
15:02:10  <Samu> it was done in 1 step
15:02:41  <Samu> I'm now removing code, unpatching
15:03:45  <Samu> you know, patching in reverse
15:05:21  <milek7> so you should squash it, adding and removing code back and forth in single PR isn't useful
15:07:00  <Samu> I don't understand
15:07:23  <Samu> the PR was 1 single commit
15:07:28  <Samu> can't squash
15:08:28  <milek7> it's 3 commits now
15:08:46  <Samu> yes, because I'm removing stuff from the initial one
15:09:28  <milek7> so why you don't squash last commit into first?
15:10:03  <Samu> I thought I couldn't do that
15:10:16  <Samu> rebase -i right?
15:10:28  <milek7> yes
15:10:42  <milek7> you can change order here and 'fixup' into previous
15:10:47  <Samu> hmm how am i squashing the 3rd onto first?
15:10:54  <Samu> and leave the 2nd as is
15:11:00  <milek7> 'These lines can be re-ordered; they are executed from top to bottom.'
15:11:12  <Samu> ah, intersting
15:11:23  <Samu> ok, let's see what i can do, brb
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15:17:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul https://git.io/fh2dV
15:18:47  <Samu> how do I write strikethrough text
15:22:06  <Samu> i did it https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7084#issuecomment-456615979
15:28:12  <Samu> this appears to be fixed in 1.8.0 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/6453
15:28:33  <Samu> when was it fixed
15:28:43  <Samu> what fixed it
15:29:09  <LordAro> are you expecting an answer, or are you unable to read andy's last comment?
15:29:43  <LordAro> learn to use git bisect and find out yourself :p
15:37:48  <Samu> svn r27787
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15:38:52  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/86eae807be8d93680e0adcb92fea2cc4d80972d6
15:38:55  <Samu> aha, got it
15:43:02  <Samu> andythenorth, I found your answer
15:43:15  <andythenorth> thanks for highlighting me to mention that
15:43:16  <andythenorth> :P
15:43:18  <Samu> to... #6453
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15:44:30  <LordAro> Samu: a comment on the issue itself would've sufficed
15:46:44  <Eddi|zuHause> there are definitely people who are on the wrong side of the von Moltke spectrum
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15:50:26  <andythenorth> well that's knocked me out of flow :P
15:50:34  * andythenorth was deep in enterprise software :P
15:53:00  <planetmaker> so... I spent my day with... this: http://discus.geophys.nat.tu-bs.de/cloud/index.php/s/V3pADytCECgKwse
15:55:18  <Eddi|zuHause> video doesn't play
15:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause> no compatible format found, or somesuch
15:55:58  <planetmaker> hm
15:56:02  <planetmaker> works for me :P
15:56:14  <milek7> works in vlc
15:56:27  <milek7> ..but what's purpose of that?
15:56:54  <planetmaker> what does it show? :)
15:57:45  <milek7> chain reaction of mouse traps?
15:57:49  <planetmaker> ^^
15:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i could also run it in vlc, but in firefox it's a "nope"
15:59:22  <Samu> interesting, r27787 is already fixed on my PR, but how come
15:59:38  <Samu> rebase does some magic
16:00:07  <andythenorth> what does 'it is already fixed on my PR' mean? :)
16:00:16  <Eddi|zuHause> "Install libavcodec56, libavcodec57, libavcodec58, libavformat56, libavformat57, libavformat58, libavdevice56, libavdevice57, libavdevice58 package from Packman or VLC repository."
16:00:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i might try that
16:00:27  <Samu> it means, I didn't do the fix, but it was carried over to it
16:00:37  <andythenorth> you rebased, no?
16:00:37  <Samu> must have been the rebase
16:01:42  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i have those already from packman
16:01:58  <Samu> considering the amount of changes i made on ai_gui.cpp, it's surprising
16:02:24  <andythenorth> clearly time for mac + cheese
16:02:30  <andythenorth> and running the tests to see what I broke
16:02:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you think that might fix your keyboard?
16:02:55  <andythenorth> no
16:03:10  <andythenorth> to fix the keyboard I need to pop some keycaps off, mostly the t key this week
16:03:18  <andythenorth> also I need to type better
16:03:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't think that cheese would help :p
16:03:42  <andythenorth> 11 tests broken so far
16:04:05  <andythenorth> what could be better? :P
16:04:45  <nielsm> upvote this one please :) https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/idea/433955/support-doxygen-style-suffix-comments.html
16:06:54  <Samu> TODO: remove all windows closures to test them again and see if they still crash
16:08:02  <Samu> ... because they could have been fixed already without my knowledge
16:09:04  <Eddi|zuHause> installing more stuff didn't help :/
16:09:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul https://git.io/fhVl0
16:09:51  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i need to restart some stuff
16:09:54  <andythenorth> how about....acceleration callback? o_O
16:10:01  <andythenorth> and I do a custom calculation in newgrf?
16:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no
16:10:10  <andythenorth> eh is TE in cb36? o_O