Log for #openttd on 30th January 2019:
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00:02:26  <peter1138> Okay, this is it.
00:02:36  <peter1138> On branch nrt-block-rebased
00:02:40  <peter1138> Your branch and 'origin/nrt-block-rebased' have diverged,
00:02:46  <peter1138> We'll get there.
00:16:32  * peter1138 performs splittages
00:34:31  <Samu> why is AI config window WC_GAME_OPTIONS ?
00:34:51  <peter1138> History, I imagine.
00:36:42  <Samu> by being WC_GAME_OPTIONS it was always prioritized :(
00:37:03  <Samu> always in front of every others
00:37:41  <Samu> must see if i can solve this "always in front of others" problem for good
00:38:05  <peter1138> Well
00:40:05  <Samu> gonna cause issues?
00:42:20  <Samu> 	WN_GAME_OPTIONS_GAME_OPTIONS,    ///< Game options.
00:42:27  <Samu> well that wasn't so obvious
00:42:29  <Samu> :9
00:43:12  <Samu> I see this is a bit messy
00:45:38  <Samu> shouldn't they be their own class?
00:45:46  <Samu> they're a window number :|
00:46:07  <peter1138> WC is WindowClass
00:46:24  <peter1138> And you can close by WindowClass.
00:47:12  <Samu> it's WC_GAME_OPTIONS, WN_GAME_OPTIONS_GAME_OPTIONS to refer to Game options. this looks messy
00:47:48  <Samu> WC_GAME_OPTIONS, WN_GAME_OPTIONS_AI for the AI/GS Config window
00:48:35  <Samu> newgrf is also here
00:50:12  <peter1138> anyway, yeah, settings were meant to be on top
00:50:19  <peter1138> because they're kinda modal
00:53:00  <nnyby> is there a key command to pause the game?
00:53:09  <Samu> f1
00:55:27  <ST2> just tried, F1 doesn't work :|
00:56:16  <nnyby> it works for me, on 1.8.0
00:56:35  <nnyby> on many laptop keyboards, you need to press the Fn key to get to F1 though. not that easy
00:56:43  <ST2> maybe you forgot to say: in SP games ^^
00:56:54  <Samu> be the host of the game
00:57:16  <nnyby> i was thinking it would be nice to map the space bar to the pause operation. that works well for Baldur's Gate
00:57:29  <ST2> oh yeah, people still run MP games that way
00:57:42  <ST2> sorry
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01:00:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
01:22:37  <Samu> static uint GetWindowZPriority(WindowClass wc)
01:22:47  <Samu> found the culprit
01:26:11  <Samu> WC_GAME_OPTIONS is quite high in priority
01:26:41  <Samu> must detach the AI Config window from WC_GAME_OPTIONS
01:26:49  <Samu> there seems to be no other way
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01:45:33  <peter1138> Hmm, how do I compile a nightly-compatible server, then?
01:50:29  <Eddi|zuHause> "make"?
01:50:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
01:53:49  <peter1138> No, I mean get the right revision.
01:54:22  <peter1138> I think it's a mistake to include the branch in the network revision.
01:54:56  <peter1138> When you check out the specific commit that the nightly was built on, unless it's still at the tip of master, then it is no longer master but a detached head.
01:55:09  <peter1138> You can do git reset --hard xxx but that's kinda shit.
01:55:56  <peter1138> Just the sha hash should be enough for compatibility.
01:57:54  <peter1138> As it is, my revision is now "20190129-maste" which is terrible :p
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02:09:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
02:13:21  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: which is why i suggested using only the hash for network comparison
02:13:28  <peter1138> Quite.
02:13:55  <peter1138> But I don't see your suggestion in #7121 :)
02:13:59  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: as for "which revision", there used to be
02:14:10  <peter1138> Which revision is not a problem.
02:14:16  <peter1138> Having to use git reset --hard IS a problem.
02:14:38  <peter1138> Or maybe it's not. I dunno.
02:14:39  <Eddi|zuHause> git checkout?
02:15:02  <Eddi|zuHause> unless you got weird local changes
02:15:39  <peter1138> Yes, git checkout will work when we stop including the branch name.
02:16:26  <peter1138> Until then, nope.
02:20:17  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, like that
02:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that seems to be a problem
02:20:50  <peter1138> 02:13 < Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: which is why i suggested using only the hash for network comparison
02:20:56  <peter1138> ^ From that I thought you knew :)
02:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the problem i had in mind was that the string is too long, so the distinguishing bit (the hash) at the end is cut off
02:22:23  <peter1138> Yeah that too. Of course, it would then have been "compatible" with any revision, except for the that that 'master' gets lost.
02:22:49  <peter1138> Anyway, up way too late again.
02:23:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so that additional problem with the branch name is that git doesn't remember which branch the commit was originally from, "git branch" is only the head commit
02:23:37  <peter1138> It's deliberate.
02:23:44  <peter1138> Yeah
02:24:20  <peter1138> It's a little difference between svn and git branches.
02:24:29  <Eddi|zuHause> also git and hg branches
02:24:48  <peter1138> And there is of course the fact that git branches don't even have to have the same name, yet be the same.
02:25:23  <peter1138> It's really JUST the sha hash (and modified) that matters.
02:25:41  <peter1138> Date might help manually identify it I suppose.
02:26:03  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: the branch name is useful in case of patchpacks and stuff
02:26:08  <peter1138> It's not.
02:26:33  <Eddi|zuHause> for the display name, not the online compatibility
02:26:38  <peter1138> branch name is really a local identifier.
02:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: most notably for people trying to send bug reports
02:27:25  <peter1138> Right, but the network protocol doesn't have a separate displayname version.
02:27:49  <peter1138> Yeah, sure, I'm not arguing against including it everywhere. Just not in network compability.
02:27:57  <peter1138> Anyway, night night :)
02:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, some steam update seems to have silently disabled wine for non-official games
02:31:00  <Eddi|zuHause> now i ticked that again, and it wants to redownload every game that used it before
02:34:32  <Samu> there is the svn counter yet
02:34:38  <Samu> why did you give up on it?
02:35:14  <Samu> At revision: 24372
02:35:46  <Samu> D:\OpenTTD\OpenTTD svn-trunk from
02:40:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
02:59:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
03:18:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7094: Fix #7088: Retrieve an appropriate name for a non-existant AI/GS when…
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04:30:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
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05:18:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas opened pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
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05:24:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
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05:57:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] akoscomp opened pull request #49: update about.html
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06:15:54  <andythenorth> o/
06:23:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
06:34:46  <Pikka> boing
06:39:16  <andythenorth> so I should turn breakdowns on for my games?
06:39:17  <andythenorth> o_O
06:40:08  <Pikka> maybe
06:41:25  <Pikka> breakdowns are "fun", inasmuch as predicable gameplay is "unfun".
06:52:23  <andythenorth> probably have to set reliability in my newgrfs?
06:52:32  <andythenorth> or not, just let OpenTTD do it :)
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07:44:30  <Pikka> duhhhhhhhhhhh
07:44:55  * Pikka is banging his head over code which is supposed to stop houses being built near industries not working
07:45:15  <Pikka> until I realise the map generator places the towns before the industries
07:45:43  <Pikka> so of course it won't work on a newly-generated map
07:52:40  <andythenorth> oof
07:53:23  <andythenorth> I have nothing :P
07:53:43  <peter1138> Oh
08:06:18  <peter1138> I wonder how maps would look if it alternated between towns and industries?
08:08:30  <Pikka> well, it associates the industries with the nearest town when it places them, right?
08:08:57  <peter1138> Yeah so it'll still be after.
08:09:22  <peter1138> But then another town comes along, and that one will be after.
08:09:48  <peter1138> But still, most likely it wouldn't affect your issue much at all, perhaps just make it even more confusing as it "sometimes works".
08:09:58  <Pikka> yes, how it is now is still best
08:10:24  <Pikka> too many issues with doing anything else. and I can easily force-remove the houses if I really care about it.
08:10:28  <andythenorth> trying to keep towns away from industries? o_O
08:11:20  <peter1138> Hmm, I should enable TaI again. The sprawlyness was nice.
08:11:23  <Pikka> just stopping nice residential buildings right up against industries
08:11:52  <andythenorth> yeah TaI is winning town set
08:12:09  <andythenorth> TaI, Av9.8 and that bridge grf
08:12:20  <peter1138> Yeah, that one.
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08:12:26  <peter1138> (Which bridge grf?)
08:12:31  <andythenorth> dunno there are loads
08:12:33  <peter1138> :D
08:13:12  <andythenorth> expensive, short and slow
08:13:13  <andythenorth> maybe
08:13:28  <peter1138> Oh yeah, 1.8.0 still crashes due to ICU.
08:13:48  <andythenorth> nobody went back and fixed all the 1.8.0 binaries? :o
08:14:03  <andythenorth> probably better do 1.9 soon then
08:14:36  <peter1138> IKR
08:14:55  <peter1138> Okay I guess I'll figure out that regression failure.
08:16:18  <peter1138> It was much easier to sort out the sprites after I split them into new files. No image conflicts!
08:17:11  <andythenorth> yay
08:17:12  <andythenorth> thanks
08:23:06  <peter1138> ai/regression/ -g < starts it in gdb
08:23:14  <LordAro> howdy morning crew
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08:35:32  <peter1138> Ok, when did we reduce the mapsize by 1 in each direction?
08:38:48  <Pikka> we did?
08:38:57  <Pikka> thursday?
08:53:38  <peter1138> A while back.
08:54:54  <peter1138> I believe we added MP_VOID tiles around the top of the map.
08:55:02  <peter1138> I'm not sure why.
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09:10:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened issue #7142: Assertion when building long road at map border
09:11:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7142: Assertion when building long road at map border
09:11:09  <peter1138> ^
09:12:00  <LordAro> how exciting
09:12:03  <peter1138> Seems we have missed tile bounds checking since most maps have MP_VOID at the edges these days.
09:12:12  <peter1138> But old maps don't, and you can still disable that setting.
09:13:09  <peter1138> So why did we add MP_VOID around the top edges? If it was to avoid crashes like this, then it's not right :p
09:13:35  <peter1138> If it is, we need to update the regression test savegame.
09:14:53  <peter1138>     (svn r15190) -Feature: Allow terraforming of the tiles at the edges of the map.
09:14:56  <peter1138> ^
09:16:32  <peter1138> On the other hand, it should be simple to fix this CmdBuildLongRoad
09:18:03  <peter1138> The actual bug was introduced in 2012.
09:18:10  <peter1138> 55dccee02fc03118929df2133fcd9140a947024c
09:18:22  <peter1138> CanConnectToRoad() doesn't check for bounds.
09:18:24  <peter1138> Easy
09:22:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7143: Fix #7142: Missing map bounds check when building long roads.
09:26:21  <peter1138> And now I work :p
09:26:46  <peter1138> (Probably took me longer to fill in the template than to fix it ;))
09:26:53  <peter1138> But, gotta set a good example, eh?
09:29:28  <peter1138> Okay, regression test fails but doesn't crash now.
09:29:34  <peter1138> Oh yes, work :p
09:30:02  * peter1138 quickly runs regression tests on work stuff so it's ambiguous
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10:00:45  <LordAro> peter1138: :D
10:01:16  <LordAro> peter1138: if it helps, i've occasionally been using ottd to test our own tools at work as well :p
10:02:12  <LordAro> peter1138: i really feel that crash should've been noticed earlier
10:05:15  <planetmaker> people don't build roads at the map edge usually... I guess. But ... 7 years for that to not surface?
10:05:23  <planetmaker> moin also
10:10:09  <planetmaker> though... it only triggers on ancient savegames
10:10:50  <planetmaker> when you change a setting on them
10:12:30  <planetmaker> in essence: I'm not exactly able to produce a map which triggers it :P
10:16:56  <andythenorth> I use OpenTTD to test work stuff
10:17:29  <andythenorth> I built a couple of UI libraries which use the same python compile as andy newgrfs
10:20:15  <peter1138> planetmaker, needs freeform_edges to be false, which is rare. It's not setting in the GUI.
10:21:03  <andythenorth> settings explosion :)
10:21:41  <peter1138> s/setting/exposed/
10:22:12  <peter1138> Oops, I accidentally committed an openttd.grf!
10:23:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
10:24:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7143: Fix #7142: Missing map bounds check when building long roads.
10:26:24  <peter1138> Files which the build process modifies shouldn't be in git ;(
10:26:34  <andythenorth> :|
10:38:31  <LordAro> it's not *very* different to having an autotools configure in your repo
10:46:14  <peter1138> Who even uses that any more? :D
10:50:43  * Sacro runs ./
10:54:49  <peter1138> LordAro, and actually, those projects that do use autotools still don't put those generated files in git.
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11:37:53  * andythenorth deletes a chunk of UI design
11:37:59  <andythenorth> made, it refined it, deleted it
11:41:25  <peter1138> Oo
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11:48:01  <peter1138> Is it lunch time yet?
11:48:18  <peter1138> I've been trying to make some error handling work. But it errors.
11:48:53  <LordAro> yo dawg
11:49:59  * peter1138 eats a 'Teaser Celebration instead.
12:01:03  <andythenorth> 'steel'
12:01:14  <andythenorth> such very trains
12:02:27  <andythenorth> wagons moving by gravity? o_O
12:02:32  <andythenorth> what railtype is that :P
12:02:49  <peter1138> :/
12:23:14  <Pikka> how much TE does gravity have?
12:23:33  <andythenorth> some newtons
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12:40:57  <peter1138> Ok now lunch
12:54:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
12:56:20  <planetmaker> at least for 2 out of 2 names I checked, the fix was correct :P
12:57:04  <peter1138> Needs the commit message to be fixed for the CI.
12:57:09  <peter1138> Then it'll need approving again.
12:57:25  <planetmaker> hm?
12:57:54  <peter1138> Our commit hooks reject non-ASCII commit messages.
12:58:30  <planetmaker> "Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names" <<-- non ascii?
12:58:51  <peter1138> That's the title.
12:58:53  <planetmaker> Unable to find image 'openttd/compile-farm-ci:commit-checker' locally
12:58:53  <planetmaker> commit-checker: Pulling from openttd/compile-farm-ci <-- that's the failure :| stupid MS
12:59:18  <peter1138> Many of these town names were using the 'ã' character, which should
12:59:18  <peter1138> actually by 'ă'. There were other missing accents as well which I've
12:59:19  <peter1138> added.
12:59:23  <peter1138> ^ is the message
12:59:29  <peter1138> It's not MS.
12:59:41  <peter1138> This time :D
12:59:55  <planetmaker> ah... bah, stupid way the errors are shown. Very stupid
13:00:03  <peter1138> Yup
13:01:01  <peter1138> Jenkins was a little better.
13:01:19  <planetmaker> we had Atlassian's bamboo
13:01:23  <peter1138> Loads of clicks with Azura Pipelines.
13:02:58  <planetmaker> but yes, Jenkins is a bit easier there, too
13:04:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker requested changes for pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
13:04:38  <planetmaker> dunno how I could have dismissed my review before :P
13:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> Unable to find image 'openttd/compile-farm-ci:commit-checker' locally <-- that bit is because it's parsing the output in a wrong way, i think... TrueBrain said "it can be fixed, but somebody has to do it" and i have no clue where to even begin looking for what to change
13:11:41  <LordAro> not sure you can disamiss an approving review
13:11:44  <LordAro> -a
13:12:21  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: :p
13:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: not helpful :p
13:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> also, there's a second issue where the azure errors (assuming they have been reduced to the relevant bit) don't get propagated to github, where TrueBrain said it only does that for the windows builds
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13:37:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
13:38:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
13:48:27  <peter1138> ^ planetmaker
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13:52:49  <Samu> hi
13:52:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
13:52:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker merged pull request #7141: Fix: unicode characters in Romanian town names
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14:14:25  <Samu> what I thought was an easy fix, turns out to be complex
14:14:42  <Samu> i still don't know how to fix it without touching too many code
14:15:05  <peter1138> If you still intend to do it, you don't need to close the PR.
14:15:27  <peter1138> Oh, it was closed 3 days ago. Never mind.
14:15:43  <Samu> closed by me :|
14:16:11  <Samu> I mean, I have it fixed on my ai gui topic
14:16:38  <Samu> it's just that...
14:16:54  <Samu> I have different rules to what is enabled or disabled
14:17:07  <Samu> than those in the master
14:17:45  <Samu> and those in the master are quite with buggy behaviour in scenario editor
14:18:00  <Samu> so, I'm unsure how to apply the fix
14:19:15  <Samu> besides, there's yet the other underlying issue I opened yesterday, that GS's become automatically active upon loading a save
14:19:39  <Samu> it would also impact what is enabled or disabled
14:20:16  <Samu> this is not fixed on my ai gui
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14:21:55  <Samu> something that was supposedly an easy fix, turns out to be complex
14:22:56  <LordAro> funny that
14:25:13  <Samu> don't know how to approach this
14:27:47  <Samu> if i change the master rules for the reset button, i'd also have to change the rules applied everywhere else in the gui. This touches many windows
14:28:09  <Samu> for consistency purposes
14:28:54  <Samu> okay, first things first
14:29:34  <Samu> expose the problem
14:40:25  <Samu>
14:40:29  <Samu> reading
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14:41:30  <Samu> oh, that's about the ability to select the GS in the config window
14:41:53  <Samu> yeah, Zuu was on the right direction
14:42:16  <supermop_work_> y
14:42:18  <supermop_work_> o
14:42:19  <Samu> I went further and made every slot selectable
14:42:31  <Samu> not exactly related
14:43:24  <supermop_work_> Pikka: might try getting back to northern bits of aus this coming summer/your winter
14:43:24  <Samu> to my issue at hand
14:44:10  <Pikka> it might even have cooled down a bit by then, supermop_work_ :D
14:46:03  <supermop_work_> going to a wedding in melbourne in august, so want escape the rain down there for a few days
14:46:14  <supermop_work_> might go up to the pointy bit
14:47:07  <Pikka> hmm, pointy bit
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14:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the northern part is where nobody lives?
14:48:52  <supermop_work_> that's the middle
14:49:02  <supermop_work_> people live around the edges
14:49:16  <supermop_work_> trees live in the pointy part i guess
14:49:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but most of the edge people are in the south?
14:49:30  <supermop_work_> south / east
14:52:27  <Pikka> well edgy
14:52:34  * Pikka gnight
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14:52:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen some video about flat earth theories, and one thing they apparently like to do there is picking out some random connection and taking there being no direct flights on that connection as "proof" that the earth is flat
14:53:06  <Eddi|zuHause> and one of these connections was something like "Johannesburg to Perth"
14:53:54  <Eddi|zuHause> completely ignoring that a) there actually are (rare, but regular) direct connections, and b) demand might not warrant that kind of connection
14:56:31  <supermop_work_> mostly commuting surfers i imagine
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14:58:31  <Eddi|zuHause> (the point they're trying to make is that for typical flat earth projections, longitudinal distances in the southern hemisphere appear much larger than on "globe" projections, and lack of these direct connections is being seen as "proof" that the real distances are actually longer)
15:01:25  *** nielsm has joined #openttd
15:02:09  <supermop_work_> indeed
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15:16:32  <Samu> if a GS has died, i save the game, and load,  should the gs still be dead?
15:16:43  <Samu> it currently makes it alive
15:18:01  <Samu> the information about the instance being dead or alive should be saved imo
15:18:18  <Samu> don't you think?
15:18:39  <supermop_work_> why would i want it to stay dead?
15:18:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
15:18:55  <Samu> because it was saved as dead
15:19:09  <Samu> im not sure, honestly
15:19:39  <nielsm> if it's dead it either crashed, or it completed
15:19:46  <nielsm> if it has completed it probably shouldn't restart
15:20:07  <nielsm> if it has crashed it may be in an unrecoverable state and not be safe to restart
15:21:30  <Samu> loading ressurrects it
15:21:44  <Samu> must be fixed then
15:22:32  <Samu> same for AIs
15:25:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7144: Editable AI/GS Parameters in the 3 game modes
15:28:02  <Samu> I really had to write this down
15:28:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
15:32:15  <peter1138> Do I need to edit the template?
15:32:30  <peter1138> Because you have not actually stated what the problem is in normal words.
15:32:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
15:33:04  <Samu> i'm still writting to it
15:33:18  <Samu> wip
15:33:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
15:33:50  <nielsm> but rushed submitting the ticket to be sure you got that exact issue number?
15:35:29  <nielsm> peter1138, I meant are two modified versions from the same base revision considered equal, i.e. is g12345678M equal to g12345678M (the modifications may be different in each, you can't actually know)
15:35:55  <peter1138> nielsm, ah, well you can't do much about that.
15:37:00  <peter1138> We never attempted with svn versions either :)
15:37:23  <peter1138> Heh, disable all network play with a modified client.
15:37:29  <peter1138> /server
15:37:35  <peter1138> All changes must be committed :D
15:37:44  <peter1138> (Joking of course)
15:42:43  <nielsm> then, if including just git hash and modified flag, transform the git hash to base64 to fit it in 27 bytes instead of the 40 for hex?
15:42:52  <nielsm> (so it can be used in full instead of truncated)
15:43:29  <nielsm> actually 28 bytes
15:44:01  <Samu> in the scenario editor, only slot 1 is human player, even though i loaded a scenario with more human players
15:44:42  <nielsm> scenarios assume singleplayer
15:45:05  <nielsm> and the scenario editor is a singleplayer game mode
15:45:09  <nielsm> in itself
15:45:49  <Samu> bad assumption imo
15:47:00  <Samu> i can move ai config slots up and down with ais on it oh, gosh so many issues to report
15:49:17  <Samu> that new issue i created is a tip of an iceberg, a big chunk at least
15:49:32  <Samu> i just fail at explaining...
15:50:45  <nielsm> when you load a saved game that has already been played in normal/network game mode, into the scenario editor, you get tools to violate all kinds of assumptions the game usually makes
15:50:50  <nielsm> so all rules are out the window
15:51:03  <nielsm> and you can't really assume anything about what is sensible or not any more
15:51:55  <nielsm> and the user of the scenario editor may well be able to make changes that break the saved game, but can't be detected as breaking it before loading it back in normal play and letting the simulation run for days, months or years
15:52:44  <nielsm> so trying to prevent someone from doing bad things to savegames loaded in the scenario editor is a futile task imo
15:52:57  <nielsm> and you may as well not attempt at all
15:53:08  <nielsm> infinite whack-a-mole
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15:56:52  <nielsm> also, I'm sure if you attempt to prevent changes to player configuration in a multiplayer game loaded in scenario editor, someone is going to complain that now they can't use their network server to have friends set up a scenario and stuff AIs in it for a singleplayer scenario use
15:57:19  <nielsm> is it guaranteed to work? no. are they allowed to try? yes why not?
15:58:22  <Samu> from my limited understanding, loading a save in scenario editor, also loads saved ai data, which when saved, will be saved exactly as it was loaded
15:58:57  <Samu> changing the settings in the editor might not be a good idea, haven't really attempted to
15:59:21  <Samu> it will not execute a save from the AI script, it's reusing the loaded data
15:59:43  <Samu> it's a "snapshot" of how the AI was at that time
16:00:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] closed pull request #6817: PR for Modernizing for C++11: replacing instances of SmallVector
16:00:53  <Samu> in a normal game, it won't reuse the just loaded saved data, it's going to request the ai script to execute its save routines
16:01:25  <Samu> it is fine in this case to allow editing the in-game parameters in this situation
16:04:33  <planetmaker> <nielsm> peter1138, I meant are two modified versions from the same base revision considered equal, i.e. is g12345678M equal to g12345678M (the modifications may be different in each, you can't actually know) <-- they might or might not. But we should not care and allow connecting these builds with eachother
16:04:49  <planetmaker> sorry, unintended, double high-light
16:07:01  <Samu> save stack
16:07:19  <Samu> i followed this somewhere into a save stack
16:07:24  <Samu> already existing
16:07:32  <Samu> will re-save it
16:07:35  <Samu> in scenario editor
16:07:57  <planetmaker> SE is basically like normal game. Except time progression
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16:10:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
16:12:20  <Samu> Now, the "Reset" button situation will depend heavily on the outcome of how the parameters should be handled
16:12:37  <Samu> that's why it wasn't a simple fix
16:12:39  <nielsm> so now we'll just need a database to look up network revision strings and convert to "which build do I download" :)
16:12:52  <planetmaker> how do you mean?
16:13:02  <planetmaker> or ... what for do we need it?
16:13:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7130: Codechange: Remove value mangling and field misuse in SLE_WRITEBYTE.
16:13:26  <planetmaker> it contains the hash, so git will tell us which version to check, doesn't it?
16:13:45  <nielsm> yes, but won't tell a player looking at the server list which version they need
16:14:15  <nielsm> it's great for the programmatic check, not good for displaying in UI
16:14:33  <planetmaker> do we know the displayed version string of the remote?
16:14:46  <nielsm> no
16:14:46  <planetmaker> as that's what would cut it
16:14:48  <planetmaker> hm
16:15:19  <nielsm> I use the _openttd_revision string when IsReleaseVersion() is true, since then it's probably "1.9.0" or whatever
16:15:46  <nielsm> which is probably good enough?
16:16:06  <planetmaker> so all releases have no issue
16:16:15  <planetmaker> yes, that's good enough. At least for now
16:16:27  <planetmaker> if it turns out not good enough, it's time to act then.
16:16:32  <nielsm> yeah it's nightlies and custom branches that are troublesome
16:16:56  <nielsm> I don't know what JGR or other patchpack authors do
16:17:02  <planetmaker> nightlies have the hash in the name, as does the network revision. No issue either
16:17:07  <nielsm> if they set a custom release version string
16:17:25  <nielsm> are nightlies marked as "release" versions?
16:17:26  <planetmaker> JGR seems to set JGRPP-x.yy.z
16:17:32  <planetmaker> no, nightlies are no releases
16:17:47  <nielsm> okay then they just get the opaque git hash as network revision
16:17:51  <nielsm> not even date
16:18:30  <planetmaker> hm, ok... could it include the commit's date?
16:18:53  <planetmaker> then it would be solved for nightlies, too
16:19:06  <planetmaker> like yyyymmdd (8byte)
16:19:54  <planetmaker> Honestly not sure whether it needs solving, though
16:20:04  <planetmaker> A nightly server might profit from such, though
16:22:36  <nielsm> uhh... just discovered, determineversion.vbs never sets modified=0 (not modified), only ever 1 (unknown) or 2 (yes modified)
16:23:18  <planetmaker> bbl
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16:26:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
16:28:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7143: Fix #7142: Missing map bounds check when building long roads.
16:32:48  <peter1138> You can't tell if it's a nightly or not, sadly.
16:33:06  <peter1138> Maybe include the date to help that? Hmm.
16:33:22  * LordAro mumbles something about just using yyyymmdd for nightlies
16:33:34  <nielsm> or maybe have the web-based server listing have its own lookup table for known common versions
16:33:44  <nielsm> which is automatically updated when a new nightly is released
16:34:11  <peter1138> Then you need lookups too :/
16:46:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7144: Editable AI/GS Parameters in the 3 game modes
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17:07:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7144: Editable AI/GS Parameters in the 3 game modes
17:08:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7144: Editable AI/GS Parameters in the 3 game modes
17:08:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7143: Fix #7142: Missing map bounds check when building long roads.
17:08:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN closed issue #7142: Assertion when building long road at map border
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17:11:03  <Samu> I'm sorry Peter. it's not easy to make this into just a single issue, it has to have everything else considered
17:11:11  <Samu> a common goal
17:11:23  <peter1138> You can reference multiple issues in a single PR.
17:11:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7130: Codechange: Remove value mangling and field misuse in SLE_WRITEBYTE.
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17:12:36  <Samu> that would be quite too sparse, considering the number of issues
17:12:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh approved pull request #49: update about.html
17:12:40  <Samu> hmm
17:12:56  <peter1138> You can't track them individually then!
17:13:05  <peter1138> Say some get fixes, others don't.
17:13:19  <peter1138> Separate issues makes that much easier to track.
17:13:36  <Samu> I see what you mean
17:13:55  <Samu> but... i need some centralized topic somehow
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17:14:04  <peter1138> Use your own notepad then.
17:14:21  <Samu> :|
17:14:24  <peter1138> Don't dump everything onto github.
17:14:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] planetmaker merged pull request #49: update about.html
17:15:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
17:15:45  <Samu> when I say, I, I mean, everyone needs to see the whole of the problems being dealt with
17:15:53  <Samu> not "I"
17:15:56  <glx> you can use to do that I guess
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17:16:38  <nielsm> Samu, or open a thread on tt-forums to discuss it and reach some consensus on what correct behavior should be
17:16:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
17:17:15  <nielsm> because I think that's the first thing to do with scenario editor versus loaded savegames, figure out what should even be considered "correct"
17:17:44  <peter1138> That issue was NOT coherent.
17:17:58  <glx> personnaly I would just removed any player stuff ;)
17:18:02  <peter1138> Just a dump of data and some points after it.
17:18:36  <glx> as a scenario should be an empty map with only towns and industries
17:18:41  <peter1138> nielsm, yeah, that assertion in nrt was actually present in master, just happened to not trigger.
17:18:56  <nielsm> glx ah yeah, convert all roads and channels to public, delete all other transport and delete all companies
17:19:03  <peter1138> nielsm, regression still fails now, but it doesn't crash
17:19:19  <peter1138> I think people like using scenario editor to "touch up" their creations
17:19:24  <glx> but people use SE to hack the savegame
17:19:24  <peter1138> sandbox mode style.
17:19:29  <nielsm> yep
17:19:47  <nielsm> well it might still be useful to have a "clean out players" button somewhere
17:22:40  <peter1138> Yup
17:22:47  <peter1138> Thought we did. Hmm.
17:24:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
17:29:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] flitzpiepe opened pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
17:29:36  <glx> nice title
17:30:27  <peter1138> That's a lot of commits that don't comply with our commit message style :D
17:31:23  <nielsm> and a bunch of merge hmm
17:31:48  <peter1138> As long as it's not merging master...
17:31:59  <planetmaker> if that is all we will have to criticise, that will be good :)
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17:32:04  <planetmaker> (I haven't looked yet)
17:32:11  <Samu> 147 hidden
17:32:15  <Samu> that's too many
17:33:49  <Samu> nielsm there is a clean out players button already
17:33:57  <Samu> reset landscape
17:34:30  <Samu> removes all companies (but not the gs)
17:40:31  <nielsm> is anyone making a review for the TBTR PR?
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17:43:54  <Samu> this looks bad, doesn't wrap text?
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17:48:28  <peter1138> Format it yourself?
17:48:37  <peter1138> nielsm, way too soon!
17:50:08  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: awesome that you merged in OpenTTD/website; minor request for next time, please check the commit message of people :)
17:50:22  <TrueBrain> personally I don't like the 'enforcing' of the commit message, but I tend to fix it when squashing the commit :)
17:50:37  <TrueBrain> I mean .. "update about.html" ... that is not descriptive :D
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17:54:51  * peter1138 early dinrar
17:55:15  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: <- possibly that helps you a bit in a direction to solve this issue
17:55:23  <Eddi|zuHause> is that better than dinzip?
17:56:07  <TrueBrain> basically, someone has to ask Azure what's up :D
17:56:09  <peter1138> Trying and failing a way to get 7zip in there. As clearly that is superior.
17:56:15  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, hm... you're right
17:56:46  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I made it more pretty now :D
17:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: no, i need some more basic understanding of which file does what, and how. and possibly a way to test locally
17:57:02  <TrueBrain> I did the horrible thing of force pushing to a public master branch .. people will hate me :P
17:57:17  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you mean Dockerfile?
17:57:31  <planetmaker> I was basically like "all checks green. Change looks valid. --> approve & merge"
17:57:49  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: yeah :D I am still on the fence if I should add the commit message checker ..
17:57:53  <TrueBrain> I find it so rude ..
17:58:04  <TrueBrain> to tell someone they failed, while they only made a bad commit message
17:58:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #49: update about.html
17:58:55  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: but why would they write a better commit message next time if you don't tell them?
17:59:14  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the problem is a bit: we handle repos differently... so it needs different thinking for each :) I agree with your sentiment though
17:59:15  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: first time contributors? Possibly they are drive-by
17:59:25  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: so that is only an issue if they make a 2nd or 3rd PR
17:59:39  <Samu> One thing I'd like to be able to change in the scenario editor is the #op codes
17:59:43  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: or they might drive-by other projects
17:59:46  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: we should make it a single way of doing, I guess :)
18:00:08  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: pros and cons; often I tell them after the merge: tnx, but your commit messages need improving, so I did that for you
18:00:10  <planetmaker> well, not necessarily. OpenTTD is our main. So extra care there is ok
18:00:11  <TrueBrain> works for me at least
18:00:15  <Samu> but without knowing if it would be problematic, I'm not sure
18:00:30  <planetmaker> And being a bit more relaxed with the rest (at the cost that oversights like mine happen at times)
18:00:49  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: fair point; I agree :)
18:01:23  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: maybe an inbetween mode "fail" "warning" "ok"?
18:01:34  <TrueBrain> not sure that is possible, but worth a check
18:01:39  <planetmaker> good idea... is that even possible?
18:01:50  <TrueBrain> I guess you can always make a bot write a message if commit message fails
18:01:53  <peter1138> TrueBrain, meanwhile there's a PR #7145 in OpenTTD with 207 commits. All of them fail commit message check :D
18:01:57  <TrueBrain> telling about that
18:02:06  <Samu> where does this gist have any visibility?
18:02:19  <peter1138> I suspect they need to squash it a bit.
18:02:20  <planetmaker> hehe, yeah. And... I wonder how to review such gigantic queue
18:02:25  <TrueBrain> peter1138: holy crap
18:02:53  <LordAro> "lol no"
18:03:01  <LordAro> (i am joking, of course)
18:03:11  <peter1138> Apparently it's a reimplementation, so I'm not sure why it includes fixes.
18:03:29  <TrueBrain> just a working banch
18:03:31  <TrueBrain> branch
18:03:39  <peter1138> Yes
18:03:47  <planetmaker> I wonder about that, too. It looks like organically grown over a year or more. And everything stacked... and not commits amended and squashed
18:03:49  <TrueBrain> that needs a bit love and attention :)
18:03:55  <planetmaker> so the real stuff is very hard to see
18:04:04  <TrueBrain> a feature branch!
18:04:13  <peter1138> Yeah, it's what I do when I'm working on stuff.
18:04:13  <TrueBrain> which reminds me, I am going to try to create binaries for NRT this weekend or so
18:04:17  <TrueBrain> see if we can do that now :)
18:04:22  <peter1138> I then squash small commits together, though...
18:04:33  <TrueBrain> same
18:04:35  <peter1138> TrueBrain, it fails regression testing.
18:04:47  <peter1138> TrueBrain, and the PR is out of date, my branch is current.
18:04:48  <TrueBrain> peter1138: owh .. so I will wait till that is fixed :D
18:04:50  <nielsm> This is becoming a very long review for code style...
18:04:57  <glx> I'm on it
18:05:05  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
18:05:11  <peter1138> Apparently I can push to andy's branch but I need to check with him.
18:05:17  <TrueBrain> nielsm: what we used to do, was just ask them to look at the coding style, and try to apply it, without giving specifics
18:05:17  <peter1138> There's some bugs too ;)
18:05:26  <planetmaker> Not sure it's worth individual review on code style... more exemplary on that
18:05:35  <nielsm> how many of us are looking over it right now? :P
18:05:45  <TrueBrain> *launches Minecraft*
18:05:49  <Wolf01> o/
18:05:56  <Wolf01> Mmmh, what is steam doing?
18:06:04  <Samu> gist doesn't parse images? what the heck is gist for
18:06:09  <planetmaker> I looked at 207 commits with no apparent order and useful descriptions and though "hell, that needs clean-up before review"
18:06:18  <peter1138> planetmaker, same.
18:06:19  <Wolf01> Almost half of my installed games are updating
18:06:27  <TrueBrain> so tell him exactly that, in nice and friendly words :D
18:06:27  <peter1138> Wolf01, updating everything with 0 byte updates.
18:06:33  <peter1138> Means they changed a load of metadata, I think.
18:06:41  <planetmaker> it's like reading the draft-draft-draft of some student's thesis which assume one has infinite time to go through unreflected collection of thoughts
18:08:53  <nielsm> okay I have a review with 36 individual comments...
18:08:57  <nielsm> submit or not?
18:09:00  <nielsm> :(
18:09:11  <Samu> I'm lost
18:09:36  <Samu> gist is not what i was looking for
18:09:42  <TrueBrain> planetmaker / Eddi|zuHause: <- they keep the validator 'pending' if something is wrong with the commit message
18:09:50  <TrueBrain> so that is the "in between" I guess :P
18:10:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm trying to write this message: "
18:10:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Thank you for your patch, but this is completely unreviewable in the current state.
18:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Please consider grouping commits into more logical units, squashing a few minor edits, and adhere to the commit message style as explained in"
18:10:14  <glx> peter1138, Wolf0: directx install package I heard
18:10:21  <TrueBrain> <- might be good to switch to this commit message style, btw
18:10:24  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone objecting?
18:10:39  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: minor rewording:
18:10:54  <TrueBrain> "Thank you for your patch! Before we start to review, we have a few requests for you"
18:11:02  <Samu> into more logical units, more commits!
18:11:07  <TrueBrain> followed by your second line
18:11:26  <TrueBrain> "completely unreviewable" and "but" are kinda negative :)
18:11:38  <peter1138> Might need reminding that push -f is okay :)
18:11:39  <TrueBrain> and link to the :)
18:11:54  <TrueBrain> try to guide him to the right path :)
18:12:27  <Eddi|zuHause> how do i put a link to contributing in?
18:12:38  <TrueBrain> [](https://....)
18:12:49  <TrueBrain> Markdown yo! :) Possibly the interface also has a "link" button
18:13:07  <TrueBrain> it does! :)
18:13:16  <TrueBrain> I am so used to Markdown these days :D
18:13:40  <peter1138> Dinrar completed, food successfully, er, compressed.
18:13:46  <planetmaker> I like TB's suggestion for the reply
18:14:13  <planetmaker> and peter's hint on push -f and link to
18:15:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
18:15:40  <TrueBrain> minor fix :P
18:15:42  <TrueBrain> sorry :D
18:17:01  <glx> hmm why mixer.cpp contains mixed EOL ?
18:17:10  <TrueBrain> because someone FAILED :D
18:17:41  <glx> and that's in the git repo
18:18:00  <Eddi|zuHause> updated
18:18:06  <glx> because if I fix it git diff shows the changed lines
18:18:18  <glx> instead of saying no diff and eol diffs
18:18:18  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: nice! :)
18:18:21  <peter1138> It's nielsm's changes, he had CRLF issues until just yesterday :)
18:18:50  <peter1138> Not sure how they were allowed in, mind you.
18:18:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
18:19:21  <Samu> my communication skills... arg... i hate myself at times :!
18:19:30  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: commit-checker could have crlf checks?
18:19:31  <Samu> just rambling
18:19:35  <Samu> dont mind
18:19:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
18:21:22  <Samu> so, 1 issue per issue, i'm sure this is not going anywhere
18:21:29  <Samu> here goes
18:21:48  <peter1138> show us a gist before posting one
18:21:58  <peter1138> i'm sorry but we need to review your issues :p
18:22:22  <Samu> a gist is here
18:22:29  <Samu>
18:22:54  <peter1138> I mean a gist of the issue you wish to post.
18:23:18  <Samu> - AI Config window in SE: loading a scenario of a savegame with multiple human companies,
18:23:18  <Samu> only one human company is displayed as being human. The other human companies can be selected
18:23:18  <Samu> and editable. It's not what happens on a NG (normal game).
18:23:24  <Samu> 1 issue at a time
18:23:35  <Samu> there's 6
18:23:40  <peter1138> I said post a GIST
18:24:08  <peter1138> And what's the point of using your own abbreviations when you need to explain them?
18:25:26  <Samu>
18:25:32  <peter1138> nielsm, you like my branch names, yet?
18:25:39  <peter1138> *yes?
18:25:58  <nielsm> heh
18:26:11  <Samu> i can already see it going the opposite direction, you're now gonna fix it by disabling it in the editor
18:26:16  <peter1138> Samu, please follow the template.
18:27:06  <Samu> but that's a gist
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18:29:36  <andythenorth> anyone actually tried TBTR?
18:29:37  <Samu> the expected result is also wrong~
18:29:48  <Eddi|zuHause> nope
18:29:55  <Samu>
18:29:57  <andythenorth> my first thought is that the GUI doesn't even fit in my screen
18:30:00  <andythenorth>
18:30:34  <nielsm> sunken separator bars look out of place
18:30:39  <andythenorth> I have an entirely counter proposal to templates
18:30:42  <andythenorth> I wanted them for years
18:30:43  <andythenorth> but now
18:30:50  <andythenorth> I don't
18:31:06  <andythenorth> if I have 50 trains to change consist on
18:31:18  <andythenorth> I make one new one, send all the old ones to depot, and clone the new one 49 times
18:31:22  <andythenorth> pretty easy
18:31:36  <planetmaker> samu, what is a Hu company?
18:31:52  <Samu> a human company
18:32:03  <TrueBrain> saving 3 letters, SMS style FTW!
18:32:15  <planetmaker> I see... yeah
18:32:22  <TrueBrain> 1990 called .. they want their letters back
18:32:30  <TrueBrain> T9 texted me, it is okay to use the keyboard
18:32:38  <planetmaker> Hu company reads to me like Hungarian company :)
18:32:46  <TrueBrain> even with swiping you can talk binary all day
18:32:52  <peter1138> andythenorth, can I push my nrt directly to yours?
18:33:23  <Samu> the expected result is not what I'd aim for a fix
18:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain:
18:33:40  <Samu> because, looking at the whole... it's not the better way
18:33:53  <andythenorth> peter1138: I give you rights, just a sec
18:33:56  <planetmaker> Samu, and why do you then call it "expected result" when you don't expect / want it?
18:34:27  <Samu> because that's what everyone would expect atm
18:34:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: ok, that GUI is in dire need of a cleanup
18:34:44  <andythenorth> peter1138: invited you to my repo
18:34:58  <peter1138> Samu, write what *you* expected to happen when you did it.
18:35:06  <andythenorth> so one counter for templates would be 'clone n' which has been requested multiple times, but eh
18:35:16  <planetmaker> samu, you should indeed make-up your mind what is a good overall way. What you expect a good interface to do and look like
18:35:21  <andythenorth> another is 'auto-replace n' instead of 'autoreplace 1'
18:35:23  <glx> Samu: only network savegames can have more than one human company
18:35:24  <planetmaker> and compare that to the current one
18:35:27  <Samu> i already made up my mind
18:35:39  <andythenorth> rule based autoreplace is probably not very intuitive, but likely very powerful
18:35:39  <Samu> but you want me to slice it into minor prs
18:35:46  <planetmaker> glx, yes-ish... but what is when you load a network save in single-player? Easy to do
18:35:59  <Samu> they aren't sensible alone, it's part of a whole that they only start making sense
18:36:02  <planetmaker> The difference betwwen "network save" and "single-player save" does not exist
18:36:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
18:36:13  <glx> and SE was never supposed to work well with companies on it
18:36:39  <planetmaker> Indeed it makes IMHO sense to mark company slots as "AI (AI-name)" and others as "human" - irrespective of SP or MP game
18:36:49  <glx> I know planetmaker, that's why SE assumes human as company 0
18:36:54  <glx> and IA elsewhere
18:36:56  <andythenorth> so when's the 1.9.0-RC1?
18:36:59  <andythenorth> :)
18:37:00  <planetmaker> though OpenTTD need not offer and facilities to add other human companies
18:37:05  <Samu> i have my stuff done, pretty much, it's just that I now have to turn it into smaller parts, it's not easy to explain it, to expose it this way
18:37:06  <andythenorth> clock is ticking, I think we'll have bugs arising
18:37:14  <peter1138> andythenorth, merge nrt! do it!
18:37:19  <andythenorth> so broken
18:37:22  <TrueBrain> lets do NRT after 1.9 :D
18:37:27  <peter1138> Ignore the regression test!
18:37:31  <andythenorth> NRT is blatantly 2.0
18:37:32  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: is the nightly play-tested you think?
18:37:40  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: already it has found bugs
18:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: maybe i wouldn't call it "human" but "player"?
18:37:45  <andythenorth> how many downloads?
18:37:57  <TrueBrain> will check about that this weekend
18:38:12  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I don't mind the semantics in that case. Either way is fine for me
18:38:31  <planetmaker> Honestly it's not a bad thing, if OpenTTD would allow also in SP different player companies
18:38:40  <planetmaker> it's not like you cannot move between them anyway
18:38:43  <Eddi|zuHause> "Company Name 1 (Player)" "Company Name 3 (AI)"
18:39:42  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well, all the interfaces for that are already there, just guarded behind "is multiplayer"
18:39:46  <glx> isn't there an isai mark in companies ?
18:39:54  <glx> in the savegame I mean
18:40:00  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i once played alone on a local server just to have multiple companies
18:40:03  <peter1138> Samu, so your "expected/actual" results are ... completely unrelated to your "steps to reproduce"
18:40:04  <planetmaker> I think there is @ glx
18:40:18  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, exactly. Me, too. And we're certainly not the only ones
18:40:28  <peter1138> Samu, so I still don't know what the actual issue.
18:40:31  <glx> the SE probably ignore it
18:40:38  <peter1138> I can probably guess, but we should not need to guess.
18:41:18  <peter1138> (How do you load a savegame in the scenario editor, anyway? :p)
18:41:29  <Samu> rename .sav to .scn
18:41:40  <peter1138> So it's not even supported anyway.
18:41:52  <Samu> it is
18:42:01  <Samu> i read it somewhere
18:42:03  <glx> not directly
18:42:08  <Samu> that's how i learn about it too
18:42:23  <glx> it's not recommended to use it that way
18:42:27  <LordAro> "supported" is not the same as "it works"
18:42:46  <peter1138> Anyway, can you try rephrasing your gist to explain what issue you are talking about?
18:43:15  <peter1138> Maybe the conversation in here could help you do that (but don't just paste the conversation)
18:45:02  <glx> indeed there's is_ai in Company
18:45:24  <planetmaker> you can still move yourself to an AI company
18:45:31  <planetmaker> doesn't exactly make it supported either
18:46:09  <glx> true, but as I understand it SE doesn't check is_ai
18:46:35  <planetmaker> why should it check or distinguish companies?
18:46:54  <glx> I mean ai config window in SE
18:47:19  <glx> SE indeed doesn't care
18:47:49  <peter1138> is the AI config window different in SE?
18:48:05  <peter1138> And is this samu's issue?
18:48:25  <glx> same as intro and game, with different rules inside I think
18:48:43  <glx> and I guess SE is identical to intro
18:48:47  <Samu> the AI config window needs different rules in all 3 game modes
18:48:52  <Samu> no, not entirely
18:49:21  <peter1138> presumably it can be more lax in the scenario editor. it is an editor, after all.
18:49:35  <glx> considering human in slot 0 and IA in other slots is very intro to me
18:50:20  <Samu> you enter scenario editor, and slot 1, or 0 as you say, has no company
18:50:39  <Samu> it's not equal to main menu
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18:51:28  <Samu> se assumes it's human
18:51:54  <glx> yes because it ignores the saved companies
18:52:10  <glx> that's what I guess
18:53:36  <Samu> what shall my gist be written like? sorry for asking
18:56:32  <Samu> the expected result is...
18:56:37  <Samu> - human companies should not be selectable
18:56:37  <Samu> - every slot should be selectable and editable
18:57:04  <Samu> my suggestion would be the 2nd line
18:57:41  <Samu> but what it's currently assumed is that human companies should not be selectable
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18:57:54  <Samu> elsewhere
18:58:43  <Samu> in a normal game it's not selectable
18:58:46  <glx> for me behaviour should match running game regarding selectable, but intro regarding editable settings
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18:59:24  <glx> because it's an existing game, but it's not running
18:59:39  <Samu> human company could also be reseted in multiplayer
19:00:06  <Samu> the slot could be editable, regardless if it's currently occupied by a human
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19:00:43  <Samu> and move down, move up the config into a non occupied slot for commodity
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19:07:36  <Samu> I can't do this.. i'm stuck
19:08:08  <Samu> this = split into smaller commits
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19:12:44  <LordAro> Samu: you're good at testing pathfinders, feel like testing #7114 ?
19:13:28  <Samu> ok, if you test this:
19:13:31  <Samu> :)
19:14:32  <LordAro> ha
19:14:36  <LordAro> i'll have a look
19:15:12  <LordAro> peter1138's right though, the "overhaul" commit does need splitting up
19:15:21  <LordAro> (and the tt-f link removing from the commit message)
19:16:24  <Samu> cloning
19:17:19  <Samu> ah, that's a fix to something i reported, cool, gonna test
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19:34:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] flitzpiepe commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
19:34:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] flitzpiepe commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
19:39:29  <nielsm> hmm, not sure how much to put in those words, but the comment about "much more stable" for TBTR feels omnious to me, "it doesn't crash quite as often"
19:39:38  <nielsm> (meaning it still crashes occasionally)
19:43:12  <LordAro> nielsm: indeed
19:43:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
19:43:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
19:44:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
19:46:43  <LordAro> not a huge fan of the TBTR acronym either
19:46:50  <nielsm> tea-butter
19:47:04  <nielsm> tub-tor?
19:47:23  <nielsm> taboo truck?
19:47:36  <Eddi|zuHause> a (simplified) version of that might also be useful for other vehicle types
19:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause> but maybe shelve that idea until we cleaned it up :p
19:48:32  <nielsm> looks like it's a swedish dude, by this commit message "normalized the {} for some case:s"
19:48:51  <nielsm> I don't know anyone but swedes using : instead of apostrophe
19:48:59  <LordAro> curious
19:57:13  <nielsm> any chance for another review of fix-networkrevision? :}
19:59:06  <nielsm> ...I suppose the increase in NETWORK_REVISION_LENGTH may be moot now the network revision is only git hash?
19:59:10  <Samu> LordAro tried to trigger the asserts but couldn't
19:59:18  <Samu> it's always chosing a track
19:59:32  <LordAro> sounds like it's working then :)
19:59:44  <LordAro> try other vehicle types as well, to make sure they don't do unexpected things
19:59:53  <Samu> tried ship, road vehicle and train
19:59:59  <LordAro> excellent
20:00:00  <Samu> with no track in front
20:00:08  <Samu> going to itself
20:00:13  <Samu> to depot
20:00:19  <LordAro> comment as such on the PR, if you would be so kind :)
20:01:22  <Samu> it was only a ship issue
20:01:39  <Samu> tested the same manner with road vehicle and train, it was behaving fine
20:01:58  <Samu> ok posting
20:05:35  <Samu> wanna see what the code is doing different, brb
20:07:36  <Samu> if it ignores the first tile, but there is no tile ahead, what does it do then?
20:07:48  <Samu> it's chosing a track still
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20:16:53  <Samu> interesting, this change may affect river generation
20:17:03  <Samu> maybe that's what he was refering to, with thoroughly
20:17:41  <Samu> or maybe not
20:17:48  <Samu> have to check river gen code again
20:18:03  <Samu> i don't think a river can start and end in the same spot
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20:23:10  <Samu> yep, won't cause any difference to river generation
20:24:29  <Samu> it always require a minimum of moving a tile
20:24:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7114: NPF bails out when source tile is also a destination tile
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20:56:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] flitzpiepe commented on pull request #7145: TBTR 2.0 (Template-based Train replacement)
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21:35:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7146: Fix: don't show OS error box for non GUI video drivers
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21:38:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7146: Fix: don't show OS error box for non GUI video drivers
21:45:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7146: Fix: don't show OS error box for non GUI video drivers
21:47:37  <Samu> jesus, even the simple change of increasing max no competitors to 15 requires deep changes to avoid crashes
21:48:24  <Samu> by allowing 15, move down needs changes
21:48:57  <Samu> bah, i'm working backwards
21:49:36  <Samu> i already have this done
21:49:39  <Samu> :(
21:50:01  <Samu> i can't just simply split this into small pr's
21:54:12  <LordAro> Samu: almost as if there's an awful lot of stuff that assumes 14
21:54:25  <LordAro> refactors first, i.e. fixing all the things that assume 14
21:54:35  <LordAro> then add individual "features" one at a time
21:54:56  <andythenorth> I don't want to be discouraging, but does TMWFTLB apply here?
21:55:05  <andythenorth> 14 -> 15 is not much gain for a lot of effort
21:55:20  <LordAro> also ^
21:55:26  <Samu> it is already done, the entire work
21:55:35  <andythenorth> if it's a large changeset, we're not likely to accept it
21:55:35  <Samu> now i'm trying to split it apart
21:55:45  <Samu> that's where I'm failing
21:55:49  <andythenorth> the risk of side effects vs. the benefit, the review time doesn't pay off
21:56:18  <andythenorth> there's an implicit calculation that is not often rationalised, but summed up by TMWFTLB
21:56:48  <andythenorth> 'but this one goes to 11'
21:56:51  <Samu> yeah, you guys even get confused with my ramblings
21:56:53  * andythenorth should go to bed
21:57:13  <andythenorth> a big change introduces risk
21:57:24  <andythenorth> the risk isn't worth it for a tiny benefit
21:57:27  <andythenorth> risk is boring
21:57:42  <andythenorth> risk means reverts, or hot fixes, and having to read bug reports
21:57:50  <andythenorth> risk is a party pooper
21:58:23  <Samu> I'm failing to tear my big PR into small parts, as requested
21:58:42  <andythenorth> big UI changes are very very hard to split across multiple PRs
21:58:54  <andythenorth> they tend not to make sense in fragments
21:58:56  <Samu> the PR itself is finalized
21:59:00  <glx> and 14->15 should not have been part of the GUI work
21:59:16  <Samu> but it has to
21:59:22  <andythenorth> why?
21:59:23  <glx> it's a separate feature
21:59:24  <Samu> it's deeply integrated into it
21:59:31  <andythenorth> that's a bad sign :)
21:59:36  <LordAro> well that's part of the issue, it shouldn't be
21:59:50  <Samu> the move down button is fine for a max of 14
21:59:51  <LordAro> 14->15 should be a separate commit(s)/PR, GUI changes should follow from that
21:59:55  <Samu> but not for a max of 15
21:59:57  <andythenorth> I write a lot of big UI changes, and I know how they end up integrated with other changes, but they shouldn't
22:00:40  <andythenorth> why not 32 AIs?
22:00:42  <andythenorth> or 64?
22:01:11  <Samu> 15 companies is the real max
22:01:17  <andythenorth> or to ask another way, why is it 14 currently?
22:01:25  <LordAro> Samu: ok, first step, is to make the GUI not care about how many AIs there are
22:01:27  <Samu> and there were no real issues with manually starting 15 ais
22:01:32  <Samu> it's just the gui
22:01:45  <andythenorth> do we need a gui to start 15?
22:01:55  <glx> the limitation was due to available company colours
22:01:56  <Samu> yes, if you move yourself to spectator
22:02:09  <andythenorth> RGB COLOURS!
22:02:15  <andythenorth> oof
22:02:29  <andythenorth> no but we could add more company colours :P. There are a few ranges unexploited
22:02:40  <andythenorth> *that* would be nice
22:02:53  <Samu> you can already create 15 companies
22:02:57  <Samu> what are you on about?
22:03:44  <andythenorth> how many AIs can you create?
22:03:54  <Samu> manually? 15
22:03:58  <Samu> automatically? 14
22:04:07  <andythenorth> why?
22:04:15  <milek7> btw. how it was handled in 240 companies patch? or it wasn't handled properly?
22:04:32  <Samu> i didn't try my gui with your patch
22:04:44  <Samu> it would fail, i removed the scrollbar...
22:04:48  <Samu> vertical
22:05:25  <andythenorth> what were we discussing again? o_O
22:05:41  <Samu> the simple fact that changing 14 to 15 requires gui changes
22:05:49  <andythenorth> why?
22:05:50  <Samu> or else gui crashes
22:06:04  <andythenorth> wait
22:06:11  <andythenorth> you say above we can create 15 already
22:06:35  * andythenorth is thoroughly confused and will stop asking
22:06:37  <andythenorth> not helping
22:06:39  <Samu> the gui imposes a limit of 14
22:06:44  <Samu> but the real limit is 15
22:06:48  <andythenorth> how do you create 15 manually?
22:06:57  <Samu> start multiplayer game
22:06:57  <andythenorth> manual = gui, no?
22:07:04  <Samu> move to spectator
22:07:07  <Samu> resetcompany 1
22:07:11  <Samu> startai x15
22:07:56  <andythenorth> ok so in summary: you're fixing a perceived defect with the AI GUI, which should support 15 AIs, but only supports 14?
22:08:06  <Samu> yes
22:08:13  <andythenorth> anyone know why it only supports 14?
22:08:18  <andythenorth> mistake, or design?
22:08:27  <Samu> because it was probably designed for single player in mind
22:08:31  <glx> Samu: your change in  src/table/settings.ini is wrong btw
22:08:34  <milek7> or rather, allowing to spawn ai in place reserved for player normally
22:09:30  <Samu> why wrong?
22:09:58  <andythenorth> is company colour a nibble?
22:10:04  <glx> because companies range from index 0 to index 14, and that's 15 companies
22:10:20  <Samu> MAX_COMPANIES = 15 already
22:10:30  <glx> company index 15 is town
22:10:50  <peter1138> Evening.
22:11:03  <andythenorth> yo
22:11:11  <andythenorth> so...more company colours then?
22:11:17  <Samu> it's used like < MAX_COMPANIES everywhere i see it
22:11:26  <Samu> not <=
22:11:34  <glx> MAX_COMPANIES is not a valid company number
22:11:34  <LordAro> Samu: arrays start from 0
22:11:43  * andythenorth would like black, there's a grf for that
22:11:51  <andythenorth> company colour grfs!
22:11:56  <andythenorth> just recolour sprites :P
22:12:05  <peter1138> Eh
22:12:08  <glx>     MAX_COMPANIES   = 0x0F, ///< Maximum number of companies
22:12:08  <glx>     OWNER_TOWN      = 0x0F, ///< A town owns the tile, or a town is expanding
22:12:10  <peter1138> There's the RGB company colours patch ;)
22:12:14  <andythenorth> so I heard
22:12:15  <glx> from owner enum
22:12:15  <Samu> but MAX_COMPANIES - 1 is what defines it to be 14
22:12:22  <andythenorth> I even saw a picture once
22:12:23  <glx> yes from 0 to 14
22:12:25  <peter1138> You can have BLACK with that.
22:12:28  <glx> = 15
22:12:30  <andythenorth> company colour grfs, with date callbacks
22:12:39  <andythenorth> so you encode the full history of British Rail liveries
22:12:44  <andythenorth> automagically
22:13:01  <peter1138> :D
22:13:07  <andythenorth> also 3rd company colour, it's only a few more bits
22:13:14  <LordAro> oh god
22:13:16  <glx> you can't have company 15
22:13:21  <Samu> that setting is used for max_no_companies
22:13:28  <Samu> min value is 0
22:13:33  <Samu> max value is 14
22:13:35  <Samu> i changed it to 15
22:13:51  <andythenorth> isn't company 15 town?
22:13:58  <Samu> it's not used for index
22:14:05  <Samu> but for counting the num of companies
22:14:08  <andythenorth> didn't I run into company null or something once, for dead companies?
22:14:08  <LordAro> i'm pretty sure we don't want to allow people to start 15 AIs normally
22:14:22  <andythenorth> somewhere in NRT, I'm sure I found there's a dead company value for infra
22:14:26  <glx> but player + max_no_companies = 15 companies
22:14:57  <Samu> ah, you refer to the current way ai_gui is counting them
22:15:05  <andythenorth> oof
22:15:06  <Samu> that needs deep changes
22:15:08  <andythenorth> 255 compaies?
22:15:11  <andythenorth> companies *
22:15:11  <glx> that's how the game counts it
22:15:22  <Samu> the changes I've already went through
22:15:32  <Samu> the "overhaul!"
22:15:54  <glx> would be better to allow company 0 to be an AI without touching this setting
22:16:34  <glx> like you set 14 max competitors + an IA as company 0
22:17:50  <glx> because max_no_companies should still be an addition to the company 0
22:18:26  <Samu> i made the necessary changes regarding that
22:18:31  <peter1138> andythenorth, there's probably a patch for that...
22:18:50  <glx> so when you set it to 15 no Human company can't exist
22:18:59  <Samu> yep
22:19:12  <glx> but that totally changes the meaning of the setting
22:19:28  <glx> it's a difficulty setting for real players
22:19:38  <Samu> you can still start 15 ais in single player
22:19:58  <glx> as I said better to add a option to replace human company by an AI
22:20:02  <Samu> requires moving to an AI company, via cheat screen, and letting first company bankrupt
22:20:56  <glx> not if it's set before the game start and handled correctly by the engine
22:21:19  <glx> dedicated server has no issue to start a game without players
22:21:35  <glx> you just want a dedicated server with GUI and 15 AIs
22:22:11  <Samu> yes, but it's already possible via openttd interface as well
22:22:29  <Samu> but i agree
22:22:33  * andythenorth is thoroughly confused
22:22:34  <Samu> it would be even better
22:22:43  <andythenorth> this is a lot of work to add 1 more AI to the UI
22:22:46  <Samu> start as spectator
22:23:41  <andythenorth> so if I start 15 AIs, how do I play?
22:23:44  <Samu> single player could have a spectator slot
22:23:51  <Samu> i wouldnt mind
22:24:02  <Samu> you spectate
22:24:03  <andythenorth> ok so one of my kids plays with 14 AIs
22:24:04  <Samu> dont play
22:24:12  <andythenorth> he sets it to 15
22:24:15  <andythenorth> and starts a new game
22:24:17  <andythenorth> what happens?
22:24:20  <glx> everything already handles correctly the 15 companies, you really just need some changes to start as spectator and put an AI in slot 0
22:24:53  <Samu> ais already can start in slot 0
22:24:58  <andythenorth> so if I start a game with 15 AIs, I'm a spectator?
22:25:41  <Samu> the ais don't start right
22:25:52  <Samu> it'd be preferible to start a game as a spectator
22:25:53  <glx> yes, but I mean for a non dedicated game, you just need an option so the "player" starts as spectator instead of creating company 0, then you're free to put an AI there
22:26:10  <andythenorth> so we change the game start for all single player?
22:26:18  <andythenorth> you start as spectator, then have to join a company?
22:26:39  <glx> it's a special case to get 15 AIs running
22:26:52  <glx> could be a dev option
22:27:03  <Samu> hmm plausible idea
22:27:19  <Samu> gonna see if i can do it
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22:27:58  <andythenorth> I'm trying to imagine the pitch
22:28:08  <andythenorth> "Feature: we made it possible for you to spectate an all-AI game"
22:28:27  <peter1138> andythenorth, no "AI Settings Overhaul"
22:28:29  <glx> sure some people would like it
22:28:30  <andythenorth> "Feature: when starting single-player, you will now always start as a spectator, and you will have to join a company"
22:28:32  <Samu> could bring back ai competitions
22:28:33  <peter1138> That totally explains what it does
22:28:51  <andythenorth> "Note: if you don't join a company before the AIs start, you will not be able to play"
22:29:07  * andythenorth must be missing the point
22:29:11  <glx> you can still kill an AI
22:29:22  <Samu> well yeah, i added a Stop AI button too
22:29:29  <peter1138> andythenorth, I love that we've spent weeks discussing this ;)
22:29:37  <andythenorth> yeah
22:29:41  <andythenorth> to add 1 extra AI to the UI
22:29:53  <glx> to finally understand the goal :)
22:29:56  <andythenorth> to support the need of the 1 person in the world who wants to do it
22:29:59  <andythenorth> who can already do it
22:30:05  <andythenorth> but now wants a UI for it
22:30:19  <Samu> yes :|
22:30:30  <andythenorth> to be really clear, and not mean, I think samu's goal is fine for Samu
22:30:35  <andythenorth> I just don't think it's shared
22:30:53  <andythenorth> depot ctrl-click counter for vehicles anyone? :P
22:31:05  <Samu> i guess I got addicted
22:31:19  <glx> I'm quite sure AI devs would like to see their AI running without having to check the money for company 0
22:31:41  <andythenorth> I'm quite sure as newgrf dev, I'd like to always start with £10m money
22:31:47  <andythenorth> and no town ratings
22:31:58  <andythenorth> and industry production cheat enabled
22:32:02  <glx> it's possible, use a game script
22:32:03  <andythenorth> and magic bulldozer
22:32:24  <andythenorth> newgrf deity mode
22:33:00  <glx> anyway it should be an option, not a change affecting all other players
22:33:30  * andythenorth wonders about newsandboxgame
22:33:52  <andythenorth> which ships with a bunch of cheats enabled
22:34:00  <andythenorth> for content development
22:34:33  <andythenorth> possibly even just loads a different config
22:35:04  <Samu> anyway, the gui could use some improvements
22:35:28  <Samu> because setting up scripts in gui is much more natural
22:35:37  <Samu> than doign in console way
22:35:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7121: Fix #7021: Better revision strings for network and gamelog
22:36:25  <Samu> speaking about when a game is already running
22:38:55  <Samu> okay, i'm alone on this :|
22:39:35  <LordAro> Samu: not saying your gui improvements aren't good, just don't want the 14 -> 15 change :)
22:39:47  <peter1138> andythenorth, i found my stash containing related vehicles changes
22:39:50  <peter1138> it's not very big
22:39:56  <peter1138> (read: doesn't do anything yet)
22:40:30  <andythenorth>
22:40:44  <andythenorth> few problems with that drawing, but eh
22:40:45  <peter1138> Yes
22:41:02  <andythenorth> synchronising intro dates was separate
22:41:06  <andythenorth> simple property
22:41:18  <peter1138> Yeah, cos that's useful for other things.
22:42:04  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause had a proposal for that using the game seed, can't remember what
22:43:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, each time intro date variation is called, init with game seed and date property, so you get reproducible randomisation
22:43:32  <Eddi|zuHause> every vehicle set to enter at the same date will stay at same date, just moved randomly
22:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> all vehicles with the same introdate will be moved "en bloc"
22:44:38  <peter1138> uint32 r = Random();
22:44:40  <peter1138> --->
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22:45:01  <peter1138> if (somepropertysetonengine) uint32 r = Random(gameseed);
22:45:04  <milek7> how likely it is to get merged? ;d
22:45:05  <milek7>
22:45:27  <peter1138> Grey grass? Never!"
22:45:40  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'd just do it for all existing sets, without new property
22:45:40  <milek7> about companies
22:45:58  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, that breaks them because the spec's been changed.
22:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: where in the spec does it specify how the randomness is calculated?
22:46:32  <peter1138> uint32 r = 4;
22:46:36  <peter1138> There you go then.
22:46:48  <peter1138> Guaranteed random number.
22:48:02  <Samu> looks like I'm not entirely alone
22:48:02  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: intro date has weird corner case specs anyway
22:48:09  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i don't think there's much harm
22:49:16  <andythenorth> it's depot flip all over again!
22:49:22  * andythenorth doesn't much care prop or no prop
22:49:36  * peter1138 flips andythenorth's depots.
22:49:40  <andythenorth> I think it would be interesting to have a separate prop to specify random range per vehicle :P
22:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: but i guess we could add a flag somewhere
22:49:53  <andythenorth> I would like to make some jokers
22:50:09  <Samu> i used to watch 4 ais vs 4 ais in starcraft, warcraft... i don't think i'm the only one in the world that enjoys AIs
22:50:17  <andythenorth> +/-10 years
22:50:49  <Eddi|zuHause> train prop 27 (misc flags) seems to be already full
22:50:59  <Samu> even made some ai scripts for war3
22:51:35  <Samu> it would always let me use all slots for AIs
22:51:49  <Samu> why must openttd be different
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22:53:14  <andythenorth> historical reasons
22:53:36  <Samu> if i recall, even brood war now lets 8 ais start, there's spectator slots
22:54:18  <andythenorth> so we have 14
22:54:22  <andythenorth> so we're still winning ;)
22:54:25  <Samu> 15*
22:54:41  <Samu> + some 255 spectator slots or so
22:55:20  <andythenorth> eh what " full git model with branches being merged instead of rebased "
22:55:28  <Samu> ok, suppose I change it back to 14
22:55:32  <andythenorth> I thought rebase was the bees knees?
22:55:46  <peter1138> It is the bees knees.
22:55:48  <glx> it's just slot 0 is currently reserved to human
22:55:53  <andythenorth> knees of bees
22:55:54  <Samu> i would still have to manually start the 15th ai :(
22:56:02  <peter1138> But it's not how git is meant to work :D
22:56:05  <andythenorth> oic
22:56:12  <andythenorth> I thought I was doing it wrong all these years
22:56:23  <andythenorth> feature branch -> milestone branch -> master
22:56:29  <andythenorth> merges all the way
22:57:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it depends a bit
22:57:12  <andythenorth> but tbh, rebase makes complete sense for working with github and 'everything is a fork'
22:57:13  <LordAro> Samu: last time i checked, AIs don't start all at once anyway, so if you're doing any half decent AI battle, you're going to want to start them all manually at the start anyway
22:57:39  <andythenorth> rebasing on upstream seems a lot cleaner than merging
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22:58:05  <andythenorth> AI battle mode
22:58:31  <andythenorth> 'New Game', 'Play Scenario', 'Watch AI Game'
22:58:43  <Samu> hmm, making ais start right away
22:58:43  <peter1138> LordAro, it's probably all in the AI settings overhaul patch.
22:58:53  <peter1138> LordAro, as in... the one that doesn't explain anything :p
22:58:53  <andythenorth> also 'New newgrf dev deity mode game'
22:58:55  <Samu> that could be a nice idea
22:59:18  <andythenorth> how big are the knees on bees?
22:59:20  <peter1138> Hmm, I should have a shower and then get dressed into pyjamas.
22:59:22  <Samu> min start_date is 1 atm, i could make it 0
22:59:25  <andythenorth> I was going to shower
22:59:29  <andythenorth> I just went climbing
22:59:34  <Samu> and that would make them start immediately
22:59:36  <andythenorth> so I smell of chalk and natural deodorant
22:59:44  <andythenorth> but I cba and am getting in bed
23:00:02  <andythenorth> but I will dream of AIs
23:00:07  <andythenorth> do AIs dream of AIs?
23:00:13  <andythenorth> sheep AIs?
23:00:40  <Samu> so many ideas
23:01:02  <glx> some random time is added to start_date IIRC, so indeed if you add a special value like 0, you could make it start immediately
23:02:12  <andythenorth> sounds like vehicles :P
23:02:25  <andythenorth> let's add a framework!
23:02:29  <Samu> i was never a fan of that random deviation thing
23:02:32  <andythenorth> for start dates on generic objects!
23:02:39  <andythenorth> isn't that how enterprise software works?
23:02:56  <supermop_work__> late for climbing, no?
23:03:39  <Samu> but 0 could me a special case
23:03:39  <andythenorth> finished at 21.30 or something
23:03:41  <andythenorth> dunno
23:03:57  <andythenorth> what's needed here is more bed
23:03:59  <andythenorth> bye
23:03:59  *** andythenorth has left #openttd
23:04:14  <Samu> let me write down my TODO
23:08:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
23:16:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #7147: Change: Synchronize randomness in vehicle introduction…
23:16:30  <Eddi|zuHause> someone want to test that?
23:26:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7148: Switch saveload versions from literal numbers to enum values.
23:28:01  <peter1138> Bah, I was peckish after cycling this evening, and so... pecked too much :/
23:30:01  <Eddi|zuHause> bon apetit
23:30:14  <peter1138> Yea!
23:34:02  <Eddi|zuHause> there's this historic anecdote according to which Frederic the great sent this picture to voltaire and voltaire answered "Ga"
23:36:55  <Eddi|zuHause> (you're supposed to read that as "s sous p a cent sous six" and "g grand a petit", or "A souper a Sanssouci?" "j'ai grand appetit")
23:37:48  <Eddi|zuHause> also, your build failed
23:38:21  <Eddi|zuHause> lots of trailing whitespace
23:38:44  <Eddi|zuHause> in saveload.h
23:40:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
23:41:08  <Samu> I need to add 1 more tick delay for AIs before they start
23:41:40  <Samu> with a start_date = 0, all AIs can start in 15 ticks
23:41:56  <Samu> not exactly at the same time, but almost
23:43:10  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
23:43:54  <Samu> for a start_date = x, the delay is 1 + AI::GetStartNextTime() * DAY_TICKS;
23:44:11  <Samu> 75 ticks for 1 day, 129 for 2 days, etc..
23:44:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
23:44:22  <peter1138> Running ai/regression/tst_regression... passed!
23:44:24  <peter1138> :D
23:44:48  <Samu> @calc 74 * 2
23:44:48  <DorpsGek> Samu: 148
23:44:54  <Samu> meh, 149 then
23:45:28  <Samu> or maybe not, i can make this better
23:49:32  <Samu> getstartnexttime = 0 ? 1 : getstartnexttime :)
23:53:00  <Samu> trying a while
23:57:59  <Samu> alright, just made them all start exactly in the same tick
23:58:16  <Samu> now need to take care of that random deviation

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