Log for #openttd on 8th February 2019:
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00:54:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
00:57:53  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Hmm, why do we need to introduce electrified road and non-electified trams <-- because andy is annoyed of steam trams needing wires
00:58:10  <Eddi|zuHause> and maybe 3 other people :p
00:58:47  <Eddi|zuHause> also, trolleybusses which might be slightly higher requested :)
00:59:43  <peter1138> I think it's acceptable to require a NewGRF provide the extras.
00:59:55  <peter1138> And preferable.
01:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the precedence here is that openttd provides tram rails by default even though it doesn't provide any trams
01:00:52  <peter1138> Yes but that's historical
01:01:54  <peter1138> Well, I'll figure something out, but I dislike it.
01:02:03  <peter1138> Anyway, night night.
01:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fine with not providing them
01:02:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and andy probably went back and forth on this :p
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01:29:59  <Samu> gonna do what andythenorth asked
01:30:18  <Samu> i really have a tendency to put everything in the same pr
01:43:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7194: Fix: Remove desert around lakes upon generation.
01:52:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation
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02:16:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations.
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02:56:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation
03:03:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7073: Feature: Generate lock ready rivers upon world generation
03:19:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul
03:21:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator
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03:36:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations.
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06:42:22  <peter1138> mrningo
07:08:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations.
07:26:53  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I should squash some of these commits.
07:32:06  * Sacro squashes peter1138 
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07:37:28  <peter1138> Hmm, roadtypes only have powered_roadtypes, not compatible_roadtypes
07:37:30  <andythenorth> peter1138: the inclusion of ELRD, ROAD etc was frosch decision
07:37:37  <andythenorth> to keep parity with railtypes etc
07:37:40  <peter1138> I guess they are the same for RVs
07:37:59  <peter1138> andythenorth, sure, I don't like it so I removed them :p
07:38:37  <peter1138> NewGRFs can provide them.
07:39:11  <andythenorth> wfm
07:40:08  <peter1138> It's a separate commit at the moment and I'm not going to squash it all until later.
07:40:21  <peter1138> So easy to undo if concensus is it's utterly necessary.
07:42:28  <peter1138> Oh look it crashed due to a negated test, maybe I should check the assertion is valid...
07:43:14  <peter1138> Does Road Hog 1.4.1 support the NRT stuffs?
07:43:25  <andythenorth> no there's a branched version
07:43:36  <peter1138> Ok, i've got that too, just it's older.
07:44:10  <andythenorth> there are multiple other grfs, vehicles and roads
07:50:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth closed pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations.
07:51:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7195: Change: Don't build town bridges in possible lock locations.
07:54:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #5654: Visibility of companies on graphs is not saved in game
07:55:25  <peter1138> andythenorth, added a new tag for #7195
07:57:54  <andythenorth> ok
07:58:21  <andythenorth> now that 2.0 isn't NRT
07:58:28  <andythenorth> maybe we should fix water stuff in 2.0 :P
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08:11:33  <peter1138> Is it not?
08:11:43  <peter1138> I mean, it's just my opinion we should get NRT out sooner rather than later.
08:12:17  <peter1138> So, town road types.
08:12:48  <andythenorth> huzzah
08:12:57  <andythenorth> road types that towns can build?
08:13:17  <peter1138> As in, not always the first road type.
08:13:30  <peter1138> First available would be good.
08:15:14  <Eddi|zuHause> newgrf property?
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08:16:16  <peter1138> Should it be?
08:17:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm thinking something like: roadtype must have "town can use this" flag, pick the fastest, and among those the newest
08:17:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 updated pull request #7192: Change: making the style of MakeVoid calls uniform
08:18:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like it should be a "Cleanup:"
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08:18:22  <peter1138> Fastest... maybe depending on zone.
08:18:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
08:25:30  <andythenorth> biab and stuff
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10:33:38  <peter1138> So.
10:34:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
10:36:37  <LordAro> it has come to this
10:40:45  <peter1138> Hmm, so the AI interface for roads will need to change.
10:40:54  <peter1138> This is kinda awkward :(
10:41:08  <peter1138> Can we have functions with optional parameters in squirrel land?
10:42:59  <LordAro> nope
10:43:34  <LordAro> squirrel functions themselves can have optional params, but the interface cannot
10:43:59  <LordAro> (see the recent samu change for AIBridge.GetName)
10:45:15  <peter1138> Ah, so you need to create a compat function which calls the new method.
10:45:21  <peter1138> That's not so bad.
10:46:01  <peter1138> It's unfortunate that NRT is split into road and tram types.
10:56:58  <peter1138> The whole RTID is a bit pants, tbh.
10:58:42  <andythenorth> rewrite it? o_O
10:58:49  <andythenorth> nobody's emotionally attached
10:59:04  <andythenorth> the nice thing about a long-running fork is that stuff can be tried, then binned
11:02:19  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> It's unfortunate that NRT is split into road and tram types. <-- the other option of freely combinable types might require 3 types on the same tile in some usecases
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11:32:56  <andythenorth> why is it so cold
11:32:59  <andythenorth> ?
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11:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> global warming?
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11:41:38  <planetmaker> :)
11:52:03  <peter1138> Wet and windy here.
11:55:15  <peter1138> Damn, how can these Tesco granola squares be so high in calories?
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11:59:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the brain is incapable of correctly estimating the calorie content of foods that contain both fats and carbohydrates
12:05:55  <peter1138> Mine, certainly.
12:08:25  <planetmaker> Are there things which naturally contain both approx. equally?
12:08:41  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's the reason why it's so difficult
12:08:50  <planetmaker> almonds?
12:09:22  <peter1138> fats not carbs.
12:09:46  <planetmaker> nuts seem to contain both
12:09:55  <planetmaker> but I can't think of anything else
12:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause> "Fett	53.020 mg, Kohlenhydrate	5.677 mg" <- i wouldn't call that "equal"
12:10:51  <peter1138> Yeah, they are low carb.
12:11:07  <planetmaker> hazelnut: 9 grams fat, 6 grams carbs from 28g total
12:11:21  <planetmaker> depends a bit at which nut type you look
12:11:46  <peter1138> Are they flavoured or something?
12:12:59  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno where you get your values from, my source says "Fett	63.300 mg, Kohlenhydrate	5.970 mg"
12:13:09  <Eddi|zuHause> per 100g
12:13:24  <peter1138> Er...
12:13:32  <peter1138> Bit more than that per 100g
12:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause> . being thousand separator
12:13:58  <planetmaker> random internet :P
12:14:06  <peter1138> Oh... right.
12:14:22  <planetmaker> gives 60:10
12:14:24  <peter1138> But yes, that's low in carbs.
12:14:24  <planetmaker> well
12:14:59  <planetmaker> ok, so it's unnatural to have both
12:15:10  <peter1138> Avocado is quite high in both.
12:15:43  <Eddi|zuHause> but evolution of mankind didn't really happen in the same places as avocados
12:16:24  <peter1138> 14g fat, 8.5g carb in 100g avocado. Not exactly high, actually.
12:16:37  <Eddi|zuHause> and even if you find that one food that actually does contain both, it's certainly not a stock food in most natural diets
12:17:02  <peter1138> And then there's cake.
12:17:19  <Eddi|zuHause> and then the cake was a lie
12:17:33  <planetmaker> the naturally occuring cake tree :P
12:17:55  <Eddi|zuHause> *this was a triumph*
12:18:15  <Eddi|zuHause> *i'm making a note here: huge success*
12:20:12  <peter1138> One of the few games I actually completed.
12:21:39  <peter1138> So anyway, I took only half of a granola bar with me...
12:22:02  <peter1138> It's now tiny, of course, and still super bad, but still.
12:22:09  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you take half of a packaged food?
12:22:24  <planetmaker> *nom nom* :P
12:22:29  <peter1138> I get a knife
12:22:33  <peter1138> And then cut it.
12:22:42  <peter1138> It was a 4 pack, and it was in the freezer.
12:22:49  <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i open a package of anything, it's immediately empty
12:22:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how
12:23:18  <peter1138> I couldn't do that with this, it'd be nearly the recommended daily amount in one sitting :p
12:23:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not helped by the fact that the larger packages are technically cheaper per gram
12:24:19  <Eddi|zuHause> but because they're also not lasting longer than the small packages, it's not really cheaper
12:24:27  <peter1138> Yes
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13:07:43  <peter1138> w/win 36
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13:24:58  <Samu> hi
13:26:14  <peter1138> Samu samu
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13:27:34  <Samu> eh, well
13:27:41  <Samu> you just ruined my other pr
13:27:49  <Samu> Eddi|zuHause:
13:28:21  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause YOU EVIL
13:28:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i what?
13:29:03  <peter1138> Ruining Samu's other PRs, I dunno...
13:29:13  <Samu> i separated it into its own PR
13:29:20  <Samu> just so it could be closed :)
13:29:49  <peter1138> 7073 is more reasonable.
13:30:01  <peter1138> I haven't look in detail though.
13:31:22  <peter1138> *looked
13:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that would make it even more important to split it off the other pr
13:31:48  <peter1138> Quite.
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13:34:04  <Samu> it's missing an arm now
13:40:07  <Samu> it's kind of pointless to leave it open now
13:40:13  <Samu> RIP another feature
13:40:23  <peter1138> They are unrelated.
13:40:28  <peter1138> Not totally
13:40:31  <peter1138> But still .
13:42:50  <peter1138> The thing with the rejected PR is a player simply needs to destroy the bridge themselves.
13:46:04  <Samu> hmm that could make towns look disconnected
13:46:35  <peter1138> It's the same end result.
13:47:02  <peter1138> What next, don't expand where a station could be built?
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13:52:47  <andythenorth> didn't I close the PR for not building docks where a ship might go?
13:53:28  <peter1138> This was the blocking-town-growth-where-locks-could-possibly-be-built PR.
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13:55:28  <andythenorth> yes but no but
13:55:50  <andythenorth> hmm, 4 hours is long enough to avoid javascript for
13:55:53  <andythenorth> now I have to do it
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14:16:30  <peter1138> I guess towns never need to build trams? :p
14:19:37  <Samu> no
14:19:57  <Samu> because the town growth algorithm was taking care of it
14:20:28  <Samu> if a player manually destroy bridges, it may end up becoming disconnected
14:21:04  <Samu> it is always connected if it's done by the growth algorithm
14:22:44  <Samu> anyway, the reason I split was because andythenorth requested it
14:23:14  <Samu> for me it was one of those PR cases where they make no sense separated
14:23:39  <andythenorth> it makes no sense to nerf towns whilst changing river slopes :)
14:23:44  <andythenorth> nobody's going to approve that :)
14:25:11  <Samu> then why did you request it?
14:25:24  <Samu> could have just said no
14:25:37  <andythenorth> where did I request nerfing towns? :o
14:26:24  <Samu>
14:28:17  <andythenorth> oic
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14:45:28  <peter1138> Samu, the point is seperate PR for separate things.
14:45:42  <peter1138> Samu, unfortunately you don't yet seem to be aware of when something is separate or not.
14:46:06  <peter1138> Samu, andythenorth didn't specifically request a PR for that feature, not did he not request it.
14:46:23  <peter1138> Samu, having it as a separate PR allows it to be evaluated on its own merits properly.
14:46:54  <peter1138> *separate
14:47:12  <andythenorth> I was providing advice on how to get 7073 through
14:47:21  <andythenorth> it's got no chance if it includes a town nerf
14:47:34  <peter1138> ^^
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14:49:54  <m3henry> Towns are underpowered?
14:51:04  <Samu> well
14:51:07  <Samu> just close it
14:51:20  <peter1138> It already is.
14:51:26  <Samu> the original
14:51:28  <Samu> 7073
14:51:33  <peter1138> 7073 isn't rejected.
14:51:42  <Samu> you rejected its arm
14:51:49  <Samu> very much pointless now
14:51:52  <peter1138> We rejected the town nerf.
14:52:21  <peter1138> 7073 is still open pending review.
14:52:46  <peter1138> You seem to have a very much "all-or-nothing" approach.
14:55:05  <andythenorth> I don't understand why refusing to nerf towns prevents fixing locks
14:55:18  <andythenorth> the problems with locks are almost entirely disconnected
14:55:42  <Samu> I was garanteeing the entire river being traversable by just building locks on slopes
14:55:57  <Samu> now, town bridges get in the way
14:56:10  <peter1138> And that isn't an aim we wish to persue.
14:56:29  <andythenorth> there are multiple other approaches we could take
14:56:31  <peter1138> But improving generation of rivers is separate.
14:56:34  <andythenorth> - 1 tile locks
14:56:43  <andythenorth> - traversable rapids for some ship types
14:56:58  <andythenorth> - changing river generation
14:57:26  <peter1138> And 7073 is the latter, now that it doesn't contain unrelated town nerfs.
14:58:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the way i see it, this generally increased the chance of 7073 getting approved...
15:01:49  <Samu> even if locks were 1 tile only, towns could still get in the way
15:01:58  <Samu> town bridges*
15:02:25  <Samu> locks can't be built under a bridge
15:02:42  <nielsm> doesn't that happen in reality too?
15:02:57  <m3henry> Well perhaps allowing locks under bridges would be a better solution
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15:03:00  <nielsm> towns build something and then 20 years down the line it turns out it was a bad idea?
15:03:20  <nielsm> and now that thing can't be torn down because something else depends on it
15:03:33  <nielsm> and then you just have to work around it and make a less optimal solution to the new problem
15:03:34  <supermop_work> sounds normal
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15:04:41  <nielsm> "towns may not do anything ever that may potentially at some point in the future slightly inveoncenience a player" is a bad outset
15:05:16  <nielsm> towns in the game are not a simple beneficiary to companies, they are just as much an enemy you have to barter with
15:06:03  <Samu> why do rivers exist?
15:06:22  <nielsm> because someone thought it would be fun to implement them in ttdpatch many years ago
15:06:37  <andythenorth> then I drew some sprites for ottd
15:06:37  <nielsm> they weren't in the original game
15:06:39  <andythenorth> they're kind of crap
15:07:10  <peter1138> Rivers exist to be an obstacle :p
15:07:19  <andythenorth> I just bulldoze them
15:07:28  <peter1138> You monster!
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15:07:35  <peter1138> Flowing rivers, clearly.
15:07:38  <nielsm> yeah rivers are more of an obstacle than ever useful imo
15:07:57  <nielsm> if they were generated wider and had flow they'd be interesting gameplay elements
15:08:01  <Samu> the pr was a way to make rivers more interesting
15:08:17  <nielsm> no it was a way to make towns less interesting
15:08:19  <andythenorth> they need to start at coast and work up
15:08:30  <andythenorth> seed should be estuary point, not spring
15:08:39  <andythenorth> engineer for the result, not mimicking reality
15:09:07  <peter1138> pick both and make them join.
15:09:13  <peter1138> preferably terraforming along the way
15:09:46  <peter1138> Do rivery things such as joining and (rarely) splitting.
15:09:57  <Eddi|zuHause> there's loads of different and conflicting ways to approach rivers
15:10:01  <peter1138> m8 is probably useful.
15:10:06  <andythenorth> it's just a graph
15:10:09  <Samu> it would make towns more interesting for me
15:10:16  <andythenorth> there's even algorithms for river basins :P
15:10:22  <Samu> i could actually have boats going on their rivers
15:10:30  <peter1138> You still can.
15:10:32  <Eddi|zuHause> "graph" is an incredibly infinite characteristic :p
15:10:34  <andythenorth> find a tile, pre-generate n branches
15:10:43  <peter1138> You just need to remove any bridges that happen to be in the way.
15:10:51  <andythenorth> repeat, building up, until all branches are built as high as they can go
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15:11:40  <Samu> but that may end disconnecting a town :|
15:11:44  <Samu> road wise
15:12:07  <nielsm> yes it turns out writing a good ai that mimicks intelligent players is hard
15:12:23  <nielsm> an intelligent player will make sure the town remains connected
15:12:45  <nielsm> (unless it would benefit them to break up the town, for whatever reason)
15:12:47  <Samu> I tested the growth
15:12:48  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: a simple tree, n branches at level 1, each branch has n branches
15:12:51  <Samu> with the bridge nerf
15:13:03  <Samu> it was still fine
15:13:10  <Samu> there were still bridges being made
15:13:10  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: trees are not significantly less infinite
15:13:13  <peter1138> I think m3henry probably has the simplest solution.
15:13:20  <andythenorth> delete?
15:13:21  <peter1138> Allow locks under bridges.
15:13:28  <Samu> just not in those situations where a lock could be placed
15:13:35  <andythenorth> well that solves a minor issue
15:13:35  <Samu> the growth would turn around somewhere else
15:13:44  <Samu> the town would always look connected even with the nerf
15:13:53  <peter1138> andythenorth, very minor.
15:15:21  <Eddi|zuHause> while for most people it seems to be a minor issue, at least one person thinks it's the end of the world... (
15:15:45  <m3henry> oh god no
15:15:56  <peter1138> andythenorth, and it's probably a 2-liner.
15:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'm sensing clipping/bounding box issues
15:16:23  <andythenorth> more than already?
15:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, more.
15:16:33  <andythenorth> it's probably solved in JGR already
15:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's how JGR works :p
15:17:14  <peter1138> /* Disallow crossing bridges for the time being */
15:17:19  <peter1138> I love that comment.
15:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause> well, we certainly discussed that back then :p
15:17:55  <peter1138> It worked.
15:17:58  <FLHerne> There was a patch that created 'valleys' for rivers, where they were mostly 1 level below the surrounding ground
15:18:04  <FLHerne> (not the rainfall thing)
15:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it was mostly a "we don't want to bother with the graphical issues"
15:18:20  <peter1138> yeah
15:18:26  <peter1138> newgrf bridges was going to be a thing
15:18:27  <FLHerne> That made them a lot less ugly/painful, because you could build flat bridges across them in most cases
15:18:31  <andythenorth> rainfall rivers :P
15:18:33  <peter1138> I had a spec for it and working code...
15:18:44  <andythenorth> I did try making rivers flow from coast up
15:18:58  <FLHerne> andythenorth:
15:19:01  <andythenorth> I would say I failed
15:19:12  <andythenorth> rainfall rivers seemed to be boiling the ocean iirc
15:19:20  <FLHerne> I liked the idea, but could never get that patch to actually generate something I liked
15:19:41  <FLHerne> Er, yeah, that doesn't look too successful
15:19:52  <m3henry> Oh man
15:19:58  <peter1138> The fact the patch has a manual...
15:20:00  <m3henry> Transcontinental rivers
15:20:23  <FLHerne> I do like its thing where rivers get bigger toward the sea
15:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> "back when i dabbled in river generation (that was even before the current river generator was implemented) i found the river placement too restrictive. rivers should be able to be placed on any slope." <-- i think that still applies
15:20:44  <FLHerne> Having every single river be a negligible 1-tile squiggle is dull
15:20:48  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: a river is just a recursive tree, with occasional random direction change, and you like recursive trees....
15:21:17  <andythenorth> rivers should be able to go on slopes, canals even more so, but frosch points out that it won't work due to trackbits
15:21:23  <andythenorth> ships will fall off tiles
15:21:40  <andythenorth> same reason we don't have station on slopes perpendicular
15:21:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the problem is not the river being a tree (which is not technically a representation of real rivers, anyway), but the tree being "embedded" in a different graph
15:22:04  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and this embedding thing is the hard part
15:22:13  <andythenorth> which is the different graph? o_O
15:22:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in hardware design they have algorithms to route the "cables" through the chips in layers, splitting, and stuff.
15:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the naive approach to that is "spanning trees", the more sophisticated is "steiner trees", but it makes the optimizations vastly more complicated
15:24:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth:
15:25:32  <andythenorth> we probably talk at cross-purposes :)
15:25:33  <andythenorth> or not
15:25:37  <andythenorth> can't tell
15:26:33  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can apply the steiner tree problem to river generation, if you generate N springs and M sinks
15:27:01  <andythenorth> and then you're assuming pathfinding from one to the other?
15:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause> to make each spring connect to at least one sink, and merges somewhere in the middle
15:27:05  <andythenorth> right
15:27:06  <andythenorth> yes
15:27:16  <andythenorth> then the tiles are a walk along the pathfinder
15:27:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's more complex than simple pathfinding, because the merging point can be moved
15:28:01  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yup, the ship is drawn over the bridge:p
15:28:43  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: doesn't surprise me at all :)
15:29:02  <andythenorth> I would generate M sinks, and each sink tries to create N springs, where N is local to that sink
15:29:09  <andythenorth> but eh
15:30:35  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that might be simpler, but it might cause intersections
15:30:59  <Eddi|zuHause> as you have no geographical limitation of the springs
15:31:06  <peter1138> Damn, 270KB for that rivers_v61
15:31:42  <peter1138> Maybe we should take a look.
15:32:50  <peter1138> Lots of patches.
15:33:16  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: pathfind forward, don't join to another river?
15:34:50  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: ic111 said something like he considered turning it into PRs (starting with a simple dropdown for river generator selection) but then didn't have time due to work/life stuff
15:35:58  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that statement makes no sense
15:37:45  <nielsm> split the terrain generator into a wholly separate program!
15:37:50  <nielsm> MAKE IT SCRIPTABLE!
15:37:56  <nielsm> NoTG
15:38:39  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i imagine that's not actually that hard
15:39:00  <andythenorth> NoFixTropic
15:39:01  <andythenorth> NFT
15:39:51  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the youtube approach: "there is nothing broken with our algorithm"
15:39:51  <peter1138> I have a separate program for it :D
15:41:14  <peter1138> Who decided to ditch png 32bpp graphics?
15:41:17  <peter1138> It was me, right?
15:47:58  <nielsm> hmm, idea on how maybe tg can be fixed for tropic: generate two variations of the landscape settings chosen, one for mountaineous terrain and one for very flat, generate two maps with the settings (same seed), then select a line through the center of the map and make one half the flat version and the other half the mountain version
15:48:04  <nielsm> maybe with some interpolation between
15:48:28  <nielsm> (the original tropical generator always splits the map north/south iirc)
15:51:18  <andythenorth> just using the temperate generator 'fixes' tropic :P
15:51:19  <andythenorth> iirc
15:51:45  <nielsm> isn't the problem with tropic that it occasionally generates too little or too much desert?
15:52:08  <andythenorth> iirc, the problem is that there's a transform somewhere that dumps the entire map to be flat
15:52:17  <andythenorth> it moves all tile heights down
15:52:23  <peter1138> My standalone generator created several maps and combined them all.
15:52:32  <peter1138> s/maps/noise maps/
15:52:57  <peter1138> Ends up with bits being smooth, other bits being rough...
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15:53:24  <peter1138> You can use the noise in the rough map to create rocks etc.
15:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: part of the problem is that TGP adds an additional step to flatten the landscape in order to create more desert. this step is apparently a step too far. i think it should probably have been removed with the variety distribution, as it is a similar thing
15:54:24  <andythenorth>
15:54:47  <peter1138> variety distribution needs to be reworked as well, though.
15:55:27  <peter1138> Maybe we should generate a heightmap around rivers.
15:55:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that doesn't address the rectangularness of the map
15:55:30  <peter1138> Rivers-first.
15:55:30  <nielsm> what does variety distribution even mean?
15:55:45  <nielsm> (in this context)
15:55:46  <peter1138> nielsm, it means the map isn't the same all over.
15:55:51  <andythenorth> it means you get to spend time clicking on settings
15:55:55  <andythenorth> wondering what they do
15:55:56  <peter1138> That too.
15:56:05  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: it's an additional overlay function that flattens parts of the map, so it's not uniformly hilly when zoomed out
15:56:08  <peter1138> However it was done badly.
15:56:10  <peter1138> By me.
15:56:26  <andythenorth> MVP :P
15:56:28  <peter1138> It goes too far, it ends up being mostly flat :/
15:56:56  <peter1138> Maybe it just needs a better way to pick variation to even it out a bit.
15:57:06  <peter1138> Also it goes wrong on long thin maps, unless that was fixed.
15:57:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it was
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16:06:09  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so at a quick glance, the general approach of that algorithm might work, if you add some complications for using rectangles instead of triangles. you assign this river flow number and a direction to each tile this way, and then set a threshold for placing an actual river tile (this might be similar to the rainfall generator)
16:06:43  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
16:07:26  <andythenorth> obviously my interest was that it started from coast, rather than the details of the algorithm :P
16:08:59  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the foundation of the algorithm is a semi-randomized BFS
16:09:14  <andythenorth> breadth-first search?
16:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
16:18:44  <m3henry> Woo, another quality blog to put in my RSS reader
16:20:32  <peter1138>
16:20:36  <peter1138> Just take that ;p
16:21:49  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: again, not really appropriate for a rectangular/manhattan distance map
16:22:15  <peter1138> They never are.
16:22:37  <Eddi|zuHause> (you get this problem a lot, where a solution to arbitrary geometric shapes becomes NP-hard if you want to apply it to a quantised grid)
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16:25:38  <andythenorth>
16:27:42  <peter1138> 18mph
16:27:48  <peter1138> Gusting to 40mph
16:27:54  <peter1138> This could be an interesting ride home...
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16:31:30  <andythenorth> wind at your back?
16:33:42  <peter1138> Partially, but gusts are gusts.
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16:37:03  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, could be the basis of a heightmap type thing.
16:37:14  <peter1138> But until we have cliffs... meh...
16:37:59  <Gabda> hi
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16:41:26  <Gabda> i'd like to ask for some guthub untagging
16:41:35  <Gabda> wip from
16:41:46  <Gabda> stale from
16:42:34  <Gabda> nielsm: thanks
16:44:57  <Samu> nice fix
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17:02:21  <Samu> i got a patch about waterborne industries
17:02:32  <Samu> gonna be rejected i bet
17:03:04  <Samu>
17:03:44  <Samu>  "Allow company owned stations to serve water industries" - When enabled, industries with attached stations (such as Oil Rigs) may also be served by company owned stations built nearby. When disabled, these industries may only be served by their attached stations, and any nearby company stations won't be able to serve them.
17:03:48  <Samu> very much this
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17:06:21  <Samu> any quick veredict before I commit too much into a PR?
17:10:23  <Samu> it would prevent much of st2 servers enforcings only ships carrying waterborne cargo
17:10:41  <Samu> would be a simple game setting
17:15:44  <nielsm> I'm not against the idea of it
17:17:14  <Samu> hmm
17:17:23  <Samu> ok
17:17:42  <Samu> you rejected the exclusive part though, i think it was you
17:19:06  <nielsm> it would have to be done differently
17:20:16  <Samu> gonna see if the implementation still makes sense without it
17:20:16  <nielsm> exclusive rights with neutral stations should instead mean that only vehicles belonging to the exclusive rights company can load cargo at neutral stations (and yes, industry stations should then receive the industry cargo)
17:21:35  <Samu> but only the vehicle that bought the exclusive right
17:21:42  <Samu> wonder if I can do that
17:22:20  <Samu> perhaps i should do that first
17:22:56  <nielsm> in other words, exclusive rights should still be meaningful
17:24:12  <Samu> i'm gonna have to mess with cargo graph, cargo dist and all that, oh boy
17:24:33  <Samu> linkgraph
17:28:18  <nielsm> okay looking through the patch file, it's another of those pervasive adding-an-extremely-specific-flag-parameter-everywhere type things
17:29:02  <nielsm> the kind that just explodes the cyclomatic complexity for small gain
17:29:10  <Samu> uh oh
17:31:14  <nielsm> I'd rather special-case industry-owned neutral stations versus player-owned regular stations and make them collect their acceptance differently
17:38:29  <nielsm> a slightly different way of explaining my issue with the approach is that it's a single, localized concern spreading a root network across a large part of the code base, tangling it in everywhere, exactly the definition of spaghetti code
17:38:48  <nielsm> long strands of separate concerns tangled together
17:47:50  <peter1138> I untangled some special-casing of road type 'ROAD' in NRT.
17:48:00  <peter1138> Special casing to make it always available...
17:48:20  <peter1138> Or we can just set the introduced year property to 0 and that'll do the same, with no special casing.
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17:49:41  <nielsm> the best special case is the one that's not special at all, but just an application of a general rule
17:50:09  <nielsm> the second best is very pinpoint in implementation and easy to discover the existence and impact of
17:51:29  <peter1138> Hmm, there's already a bridge/ship glitch :/
17:53:07  <Samu> do you refer to addaccepted cargo proc with the on_water parameters?
17:53:11  <Samu> hmm
17:53:15  <Wolf01> o/
17:53:52  <nielsm> Samu yes, and my implication is that the patch as it stands should be scrapped and the idea implemented again in a different way
17:54:19  <Samu> it's happening during tileloop. it's the tiles themselves that look for nearby stations around
17:54:24  <Samu> not the station
17:55:27  <Samu> hmm,
17:55:50  <Wolf01> peter1138: you should give a try to astroneer, they released the stable, such shiny very wow
17:57:06  <Samu> maybe there is another way
18:00:25  <peter1138> Looks somewhat different.
18:00:38  <Wolf01> Just a bit... :P
18:00:51  *** cHawk has quit IRC
18:02:54  <Wolf01> They changed a lot of mechanics and added some new stuff, like a tractor with trailer to move things around in the early stage, the solar panel array which takes a lot of space, the ability to print the habitat, it's RTG and the oxygen extractor
18:03:56  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Hmm, there's already a bridge/ship glitch :/ <-- ships are generally the glitchiest part of the game
18:04:13  <Eddi|zuHause> because their bounding boxes are all wrong
18:05:09  <Wolf01> That's because nobody loves ships :(
18:05:20  <Eddi|zuHause> if you make the bounding boxes smaller, there will be cases where the ship is drawn in the wrong place, and if you make it larger, there will be more cases where the alrogithm is triggering undefined behaviour
18:05:22  <andythenorth> ships are the worst
18:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause> ship must be made of several smaller bounding boxes that move in parallel
18:05:56  <Eddi|zuHause> somewhat like CETS vehicles
18:06:19  <Wolf01> Articulated ships
18:07:39  <Wolf01> What happened to sliced trains instead?
18:07:58  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing happened to it?
18:08:23  <Wolf01> Yeah, "nothing"
18:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> CETS demonstrated the concept, and to my knowledge MB somewhat adapted it to DBSet 0.9
18:09:31  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I'm lagging a bit... 1.7s
18:09:39  <Eddi|zuHause> 68ms
18:12:32  <nielsm> spamtime, sry :)
18:12:33  <nielsm> Samu: my idea would be to first modify station_cmd.cpp:UpdateStationAcceptance so it checks whether the station is an industry or player station, if it's an industry station then it just blindly accepts whatever the industry it belongs to accepts, if it's a player station it proceeds as normal.
18:12:33  <nielsm> second part is to modify industry_cmd.cpp:AddAcceptedCargo_Industry such that industry tiles belonging to an industry that has its own station never have any regular acceptance.
18:12:33  <nielsm> third part is to modify industry_cmd.cpp:TransportIndustryGoods so industries with their own station only deliver production to that station and no other.
18:12:34  <nielsm> last is to modify economy.cpp:DeliverGoodsToIndustry such that deliveries to industry stations can only go to the owning industry, and deliveries to player stations can only go to industries without own stations.
18:13:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on issue #7166: Inconsistency in closest town calculation with threshold
18:13:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 closed issue #7166: Inconsistency in closest town calculation with threshold
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18:15:50  <Wolf01> Something un-broke, 120ms stable now
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18:24:01  <Samu> crap, 10 failed hunks, much has changed since then and now
18:26:54  <nielsm> may as well do it over, right?
18:28:38  <peter1138> I lost count of how many times I rewrote newstations.
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18:30:22  <Samu> i prefer to work backwards
18:30:36  <Samu> well, not exactly, but i want to see how it currently stands
18:33:00  <Samu> eww... afterload and saveload changed drastically
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18:36:24  <andythenorth> oh js
18:36:27  <andythenorth> why :(
18:36:33  <peter1138> Because
18:36:37  <andythenorth> on every level it's terrible
18:36:59  <andythenorth> I've spent an hour pissing around trying to fix draggables that stopped working
18:37:09  <andythenorth> turns out there's a bug in an unrelated script in the page
18:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause> but if you use <library flavour of the week> you can abstract away all the terribleness
18:37:12  <andythenorth> so jquery barfs
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18:39:45  <Samu> most of the failed hunks is because you changed uint32 into CargoTypes
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18:40:55  <Gabda> Tile virtual coordinates are really odd
18:42:20  <Eddi|zuHause> loads of things in this game are very odd. can you be slightly more specific? :p
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19:05:58  <Samu> noted:
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19:12:23  <Samu> the "blindly" part is confusing me
19:12:46  <Samu> ok i see
19:13:34  <Samu> or actually, I don't
19:13:38  <Samu> must test
19:13:48  <Wolf01> Lesson learned: don't play with router if you don't know how to set strange things
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19:14:38  <Eddi|zuHause> worst part is trying to google strange settings when your internet doesn't work :p
19:15:52  <Wolf01> The funny part is that I set it up succesfully before changing to the current setup, not it seem to block everything going outside if I enable it
19:27:24  <peter1138> Mmm, tuna steak
19:27:42  <andythenorth> kebab
19:30:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i must have caught peak hour at the kebab store, because i waited forever
19:30:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i considered skipping
19:30:51  <Eddi|zuHause> was around 18:00
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19:36:12  <peter1138> Hmm, what to have for dessert...
19:36:38  <andythenorth> angel delight
19:37:56  <Samu> hmm the on_water information still has to be passed to the industry
19:38:57  <Samu> if it's not passed, what could be done
19:39:47  <Samu> the industry checks itself if it has a station attached to it
19:40:44  <Samu> but... some information about the station doing the request
19:40:50  <Samu> has to be known
19:45:23  <supermop_work_> Eddi|zuHause: i went to a 'berlin style' kebab place for lunch
19:45:51  <supermop_work_>
19:45:54  <supermop_work_> it was ok
19:45:56  <Eddi|zuHause> are there other styles?
19:45:59  <peter1138> Hmm, so a simple road type flag... "can be built by towns" ?
19:46:38  <supermop_work_> yes
19:47:22  <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, all döner places are like that
19:47:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and in an average city there are more than mcdonalds and burger king combined
19:47:51  <peter1138> Looks good, not like any doner here.
19:48:26  <supermop_work_> its not particularly cheap tho
19:48:27  <peter1138> Here our choice of veg is "lettuce, onion, tomato, tomato, coleslaw, pickled peppers"
19:48:49  <peter1138> And always in pitta.
19:48:53  <supermop_work_> it's certainly a trying to be hip place playing off the trendiness of berlin in brooklyn
19:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> the further you get away from berlin the more expensive it gets :p
19:49:09  <peter1138> Hmm, how do pavements fit into road types?
19:49:14  <supermop_work_> meh
19:49:17  <supermop_work_> however
19:49:25  <supermop_work_> agnostic about it
19:49:32  <peter1138> Wondering if zones shoulds should get their own flags.
19:49:32  <supermop_work_> thats what derailed it last time
19:49:38  <supermop_work_> sure
19:49:40  <peter1138> Or maybe that's callback material.
19:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> (you can easily see this in germany, as the further west and south you get, prices can easily double)
19:49:59  <supermop_work_> town zone for kebab flag
19:50:11  <peter1138> :D
19:50:42  <supermop_work_> GS to pay 3x for doner kebab delivered from NE corner of map to SW
19:51:14  <andythenorth> kebab economy for FIRS
19:51:30  <andythenorth> I tried a town economy, but cdist wrecks it
19:51:39  <andythenorth> Coffee, Beer, Kebabs
19:51:56  <supermop_work_> maybe its time for mop generic industries
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19:52:04  <peter1138> It's time to clean my glasses.
19:52:13  <andythenorth> Beer
19:52:14  <andythenorth> Coke
19:52:19  <supermop_work_> Importer -> distributor
19:52:21  <andythenorth> middle class needs
19:52:23  <supermop_work_> is the only chain
19:52:27  <andythenorth> Beer, Craft Beer, Ale
19:53:06  <supermop_work_> port
19:53:09  <supermop_work_> sherry
19:53:14  <peter1138> Should a town pick one road type and always build it?
19:53:15  <supermop_work_> whiskey
19:53:15  <peter1138> Or...
19:53:25  <supermop_work_> peter1138: i used to think yes
19:53:30  <peter1138> But?
19:53:36  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a price index
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19:53:58  <supermop_work_> the build type A in zone X, type B in zone Y makes sense too
19:54:05  <Eddi|zuHause> "in each city we picked the 10 places with the best yelp reviews"
19:54:22  <peter1138> Hmm.
19:54:23  <supermop_work_> not sure if possible to leave that up to the newgrf tho
19:54:30  <peter1138> Yeah, callbacks could do that.
19:54:42  <supermop_work_> i wouldn't mind towns being different than each other
19:55:01  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i'd rather have it so each roadtype must provide a version for each town zone
19:55:12  <supermop_work_> i wouldn't even mind some towns not being alowed to build roads while others may
19:55:41  <peter1138> Towns have to have roads.
19:55:49  <supermop_work_> Town A switches from cobbles to asphalt, Town B keeps the cobbles, Town C only ever builds footpaths?
19:56:26  <supermop_work_> idk, there are too may mazes of 'nice to have' for town roads though
19:56:41  <supermop_work_> so best to pick one feature, and just move forward with that
19:57:13  <supermop_work_> whether its road type by year, road type by zone, or road type by town vs city
19:57:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that's up to the growth algorithm to decide whether to replace old roads, there could be a completely separate feature to randomize the "personality" of a town
19:58:03  <supermop_work_> best not to lose NRT again in a morass of how best to simulate the city's engineers office
20:02:33  <peter1138> It only builds the first road type at the moment, doesn't it?
20:02:56  <supermop_work_> whatever is labeled ROAD i believe
20:03:08  <peter1138> Nope, ROADSUBTYPE_NORMAL, which is index 0.
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20:15:48  <andythenorth> should I play a game?
20:16:29  *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC
20:19:32  <peter1138> Yes
20:22:23  <peter1138> Hmm, town building different road to the AI, so...
20:23:00  <peter1138> But... that means the flag is not working cos it shouldn't be flagged o_O
20:28:33  <peter1138> Oh, it is flagged.
20:28:41  <peter1138> Did roadtypeflag bit 4 mean anything at some point?
20:29:06  <peter1138> Where is the spec at the moment, even?
20:30:09  <supermop_work_> frosch's is the closest to up to date i think?
20:30:26  <peter1138> Yeah, but where. I don't have a cluse.
20:30:29  <peter1138> Nor a clue.
20:32:37  <peter1138> ?
20:32:41  <peter1138> Wait no
20:32:43  <peter1138> that's ground types :p
20:33:49  <andythenorth>
20:33:55  <peter1138> Yeah, found it.
20:34:21  <peter1138> Roadsides are always default?
20:34:48  <peter1138> Hmm, no.
20:36:24  <andythenorth> should I play the NRT PR?
20:36:25  <andythenorth> :P
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20:53:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)
20:53:35  <peter1138> ^ Ueahj
20:53:36  <peter1138> ^T Yeah
20:53:38  <peter1138> ^ Yeah
20:54:02  <andythenorth> ok
20:54:05  <andythenorth> I need an industry set
20:54:09  <andythenorth> FIRS *sucks*
20:54:18  <andythenorth> has anyone made one?
20:55:33  <peter1138> TaI :D
20:55:56  <andythenorth> BAD FEATURES?
20:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> plenty
20:57:06  <andythenorth> maybe I play a tropic map
20:57:11  <andythenorth> then I can moan about the terrain
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21:04:18  <peter1138> 1950
21:04:31  <peter1138> Station open for a month.
21:04:36  <peter1138> 190 passengers waiting.
21:10:38  <peter1138> Hmm, so var 44 contains the town zone.
21:13:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can you try with any variety other than "minimal"?
21:14:03  <andythenorth> you paste that _after_ I start a game :P
21:14:04  <andythenorth> ok
21:16:23  <andythenorth> hmm
21:16:34  <andythenorth> I guess to measure difference, need to repeat the seed
21:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that might be one way to test it
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21:23:08  <Samu> found a bug on my implementation :(
21:23:30  <Samu> neutral stations could accept cargo of nearby neutral stations
21:24:03  <Samu> can't simply pass a bool
21:24:12  <Samu> have to pass station
21:26:16  <Samu> the acceptor
21:26:19  <Samu> accepter
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21:28:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the scaling for max map height in relation to desert height might need some tweaking too
21:29:36  <Eddi|zuHause> at max height 16 i get mostly green, and at 32 mostly desert
21:30:31  <andythenorth> my hog fails :P
21:30:34  <andythenorth> oops
21:31:02  <Samu> it's not enough for the station to be neutral
21:31:18  <peter1138> Hog fails?
21:31:36  <andythenorth> I've failed to include NRT in it somehow
21:31:50  <andythenorth> probably because I tried to use branches in mercurial
21:31:51  <peter1138>
21:33:34  <andythenorth> the old version works
21:35:43  <Samu> oops andythenorth your dredging site
21:36:04  <Samu> how did it create a station tile?
21:37:01  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: not even the picture on the box inflicts any kind of appetite
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21:39:22  <Samu> nevermind, I misread this
21:39:24  <Samu> sorry
21:40:25  <Samu> just my short memory playing tricks on me, I even have this right
21:44:17  <andythenorth> I could match train livery to the industry colour :P
21:46:54  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: there's all sorts of wrong with this...
21:47:03  <Eddi|zuHause> like it's the wrong kind of bread
21:47:05  <Eddi|zuHause> no salad
21:47:16  <Eddi|zuHause> no 3 types of sauce
21:48:18  <Eddi|zuHause> and probably the meat won't have the right texture as it's probably leftovers-which-you-don't-want-to-know-more-about pushed through a grinder
21:52:12  <Samu> does fishing grounds accept engineering supplies?
21:52:49  <Samu> or is it because there's a dredging site nearby?
21:52:59  <Samu> andythenorth: !
21:53:20  <Samu> not familiar with firs, but it's a good test
21:54:17  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, looks foul.
21:55:18  <Samu> yeah, this is definitely not the behaviour I was intending
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22:09:05  <Samu> dang, acceptance may not always come from a station
22:09:51  <Samu> can also come from when I'm looking for a place to build a station
22:10:58  <Samu> pre-placement
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22:11:38  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, back to todays earworm presented by
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22:25:57  <peter1138> Hmm, I need a diagonal station :/
22:26:03  <andythenorth> and bridge
22:26:09  <andythenorth> diagonal station over diagonal bridge
22:26:21  <andythenorth> bridges in tunnels
22:27:16  <peter1138> :/
22:28:26  <Samu> i need to pass GetAcceptanceAroundTiles the station index which pretty much goes against the point of that function
22:28:44  <Samu> must think
22:31:58  <Samu> it still has to iterate over the industry tiles
22:39:00  <andythenorth> stations in bridges with tunnels over them
22:39:20  <peter1138> andythenorth, what have you done...
22:39:25  <peter1138> a new host...
22:39:43  <andythenorth> SYL is a complete fuckwit
22:39:46  <planetmaker> moo
22:40:07  <andythenorth> or has legitimate mental health issues
22:40:09  <andythenorth> one or the other
22:45:10  <peter1138> Who's good with AI?
22:45:19  <peter1138> I mean, how should the AI interface look? o_O
22:46:28  <andythenorth> who's good with locks?
22:46:36  <andythenorth> this river is all wrong for locks
22:46:40  <peter1138> :/
22:46:54  <peter1138> There's a patch for that.
22:49:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry opened pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly
22:51:01  <peter1138> Waaaait.
22:51:03  <peter1138> When did the CI change?
22:51:53  <peter1138> m3henry, commit message style "Fix: ..."
22:51:53  <LordAro> ooh
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22:59:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly
23:00:27  <m3henry> Fixed fix suffix
23:00:32  <peter1138> Prefix.
23:00:41  <LordAro> suffix of the prefix
23:00:42  <m3henry> : comes after fix
23:00:56  <peter1138> Fix: is the prefix, heh.
23:01:03  <peter1138> But the message is a bit wonky now.
23:01:12  <m3henry> fg
23:01:13  <peter1138> But hey.
23:02:28  <peter1138> So basically the line was ignoring the fact that the train was flagged to reverse.
23:02:29  <andythenorth> Fix: bridges in tunnels should be tunnels in bridges
23:02:38  <m3henry> yup
23:02:39  <andythenorth> Commit: bed
23:02:48  <peter1138> andythenorth, no.
23:03:03  <m3henry> I had noticed it ages ago but never thought to investigate
23:03:52  <peter1138> This has no bearing on trains not finding a depot when they have a reserved path, does it?
23:03:56  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
23:04:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7192: Codechange: making the style of MakeVoid calls uniform
23:04:49  <peter1138> m3henry, nit-picking but I would rather the blank line was kept.
23:05:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7192: Codechange: making the style of MakeVoid calls uniform
23:05:46  <peter1138> Whitespace (including vertical whitespace) helps readability.
23:05:55  <m3henry> I agree
23:06:15  <m3henry> I would naturally have omitted the curly braces
23:06:20  <m3henry> but style guide
23:06:34  <peter1138> Me too but still.
23:06:45  <peter1138> Blank line after the closing curly brace.
23:07:33  <m3henry> Anyway, isn't this a minor thing that a reviewer edit would be sufficient for?
23:08:58  <peter1138> Creates a new commit.
23:09:19  <m3henry> ah,fair neough
23:10:19  <m3henry> Would no curly braces be compliant with the SG?
23:10:46  <peter1138> Nope. It is what it is.
23:11:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly
23:12:21  <LordAro> no braces is only allowed when the statement and condition are on the same line
23:12:40  <LordAro> just leads to a goto fail incident otherwise
23:13:57  <Samu> * @param st_ind_id       Industry Index of the station that is accepting (such as Oil Rig stations and Oil Rig industries)
23:14:46  <Samu> is this param name confusing?
23:14:52  <peter1138> Yes.
23:14:54  <Samu> it's a IndustryID
23:15:01  <Samu> ok, how to name it
23:15:46  <Samu> or maybe, how to english
23:16:24  <peter1138> Industry index of the station. What does that even mean?
23:16:59  <peter1138> Is it an index into Station::industries_near?
23:17:03  <Samu> no
23:17:07  <peter1138> Good.
23:17:08  <nielsm> Samu did you get the writeup of how I'd do that patch earlier?
23:17:19  <Samu> yes, i'm trying to deal with it
23:17:24  <nielsm> because with that method you don't need to alter any function signatures and tiles don't need to know who's asking
23:17:26  <Samu> but it's complex
23:18:00  <peter1138> LordAro, hmm, looks like the CI's running individual tasks, and the original combined job.
23:18:13  <LordAro> that seems undesirable
23:18:14  <Samu> you see a oil rig industry, it has a neutral station attached to it
23:18:16  <LordAro> are you sure?
23:18:33  <nielsm> oil rigs can end up with no station attached
23:18:44  <nielsm> when there's far too many of them
23:18:50  <nielsm> by the way
23:18:59  <LordAro> hmm, it does look that way
23:19:22  <Samu> that isn't supposed to happen :|
23:19:23  <LordAro> wait no, the individual tasks link through to the same build
23:20:06  <peter1138> LordAro, indeed, I guess it is a grouping, but it's not clear :-)
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23:21:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly
23:21:34  <m3henry> Woo!
23:22:50  <m3henry> Just #7165 to go
23:23:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7196: Fix trains pending reversal + ordered to depot not behaving correctly
23:23:56  <Samu> in my good english: * @param st_ind_id       Industry Index that the station attached to this industry is corresponded with
23:24:03  <Samu> lol
23:24:34  <peter1138> That makes no sense
23:24:41  <LordAro> now you're just repeating yourself
23:25:06  <LordAro> a) "ind_id" does not need to be in the variable name, that's what the type is for
23:25:11  <Samu> I got a station, it's an oil rig station, it is attached to an industry
23:25:17  <LordAro> b) "Industry Index" is just repeating the type again
23:25:18  <Samu> i wanna get the index
23:25:25  <Samu> or actually, I provide the index
23:25:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7125: Convert singleplayer game to multiplayer server
23:26:22  <peter1138> IndustryID associated with Station
23:26:30  <Samu> yes, that
23:26:31  <peter1138> IndustryID associated with Station (e.g. oil rig)
23:26:34  <peter1138> Something like that?
23:26:54  <Samu> yes
23:27:17  <Samu> i will be using it for comparison with other stations that are also neutral, but must ensure they belong to the same industry
23:27:43  <LordAro> or you could pay attention to what nielsm said about it, and not touch the signature at all
23:27:51  <peter1138> That too.
23:28:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7189: fluidsynth driver plays music too loudly
23:28:11  <peter1138> Sometimes you gotta write the patch yourself.
23:28:15  <Samu> but i have to
23:28:21  <nielsm> no you don't
23:28:22  <nielsm> ypi
23:28:24  <nielsm> ypi
23:28:27  <nielsm> wow
23:28:34  <LordAro> yipee
23:28:34  <nielsm> much typo
23:28:46  <nielsm> you're not getting my idea then
23:28:54  <Samu> I'm trying
23:29:04  <nielsm> don't tell who's asking and have the answer depend on that
23:29:15  <nielsm> instead avoid asking at all
23:29:32  <Samu> i must compare 2 industry indexes
23:29:36  <nielsm> and have industry tiles whose industry owns a station lie about their acceptance (claim they don't accept anything)
23:30:14  <nielsm> player-owned stations query acceptance as normal, from the surrounding tile area
23:30:47  <nielsm> industry-owned stations do not query acceptance from tiles at all, instead just assume the accepted cargos of the industry it belongs to should be what the station accepts
23:31:29  <nielsm> and with industry tiles belonging to an industry with a station lying and claiming they accept nothing, player-owned stations won't get acceptance from those
23:32:08  <nielsm> but in addition to that, when cargo is delivered on a player-owned station, when deciding which industries to deliver the cargo to, never consider an industry that owns a station
23:32:26  <nielsm> and when an industry produces cargo, if it owns a station only deliver it on that station
23:33:21  <nielsm> this way, industry tiles only need to care about the industry itself they belong to, and never about any stations
23:33:30  <nielsm> (the industry should know whether it has a station attached)
23:34:13  <nielsm> (and you won't need to know which station id that is, just that one exists or does not exist)
23:40:43  <Samu> AddAcceptedCargo_Industry
23:40:56  <Samu> but it's still the same function that computes acceptance either way
23:42:04  <nielsm> you're still not reading what I write
23:42:19  <nielsm> where does station acceptance get calculated?
23:42:35  <nielsm> the answer is station_cmd.cpp line 562 UpdateStationAcceptance
23:42:54  <nielsm> that function knows what station is looking for acceptance
23:42:58  <Samu> it will inevitably reach this function
23:43:06  <nielsm> yes and that's too deep
23:43:26  <nielsm> change UpdateStationAcceptance such that industry-owned stations never ask any tiles at all about acceptance
23:44:15  <Samu> but it has to ask for industry tiles still
23:44:20  <nielsm> then AddAcceptedCargo_* functions don't need to know which station is asking
23:44:22  <Samu> even if it doesn't ask the others
23:44:38  <nielsm> no it does not, it can synthesize the acceptance from the industry itself
23:44:50  <nielsm> not the industry tiles, the industry
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23:48:43  <Samu> I can't see this the way you see
23:49:21  <Samu> it has to at least iterate over its own tiles to compute acceptance for the neutral station
23:55:40  <nielsm> completely untested but I think this shows my idea:
23:56:28  <nielsm> okay may not work since Industry::GetByTile requires that the tile is known to be an industry
23:57:14  <nielsm> should be fixed by: if (st->owner == OWNER_DEITY && IsTileType(st->xy, MP_INDUSTRY))
23:57:49  <Samu> but the tile can have acceptance different than that of the industry
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23:58:04  <Samu> like steel mill
23:58:22  <Samu> a station around it, says it accepts passengers, but the steel mill itself, doesn't
23:58:24  <nielsm> yes but name one industry that creates stations and has that property
23:58:34  <Samu> many
23:58:40  <nielsm> for example?
23:58:40  <Samu> oil rig accepts mail
23:58:52  <Samu> but oil rig doesn't accept mail
23:59:03  <Samu> it's the tile that accepts mail
23:59:26  <Samu> it has to iterate the industry tiles

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