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Log for #openttd on 13th February 2019:
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00:00:36  <samu> how to make garbage collector less spiky?
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00:02:12  <samu> https://imgur.com/zWmNCAD that AI number 5 caused that 400 ms stall
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00:31:22  <glx> 400ms is almost imperceptible
00:36:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
00:43:56  <samu> it's half a second
00:44:00  <samu> but hmm
00:44:02  <samu> ok
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00:49:19  <drac_boy> hi .. as usual have a few things on mind .. but anyway first one: could a single sprite come in two different colours depending on whether its before or after a particular date? I thought I remembered something about "reload the game to see the new sprites" but forgot who that came from grf-wise
00:49:58  <peter1138> No it would be a different sprite.
00:50:26  <peter1138> You're thinking of the old town set that loaded different road graphics depending on the date.
00:52:05  <drac_boy> ah .. yeah that sounds more plausible to my possible memory mixup ty
00:53:32  <drac_boy> hmm dates .. reminds me of ttrs
00:53:42  * drac_boy wonders where that webpage perhaps went to now...
00:53:46  <peter1138> That's probably the one.
00:53:51  <peter1138> Total town renewal set :D
00:57:41  <drac_boy> hmm ttrs site is gone no surprise ... but at least I did find a forum mention of ttrs and reloading it to get the newer roads to show up tho :)
00:58:31  <drac_boy> anyway dunno about you but east canada is snowing quite a but now and blizzard expected tomorrow with many things closed for the morning (even gov offices too...!) too .. should be a fun day :-s
00:58:42  <drac_boy> a but = a bit*
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01:10:21  <drac_boy> next thing, I'm just curious in theory but is it only locomotives that can be railtypes-restricted or you could probably do the same for wagons by some crazy chance too?
01:10:47  <samu> can I suggest changing defaults of opcode/competitor speed?
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07:49:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
07:52:16  <peter1138> Maybe this one will compile on everything :p
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08:00:28  <andythenorth> Mongolian Horse? http://www.railpictures.net/photo/687247/
08:01:11  <Flygon> Must have a loud whinny.
08:05:03  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: isn't that basically just russian horse?
08:05:38  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: not sure of the politics of that :)
08:05:43  <andythenorth> have to be careful with these things
08:05:52  <andythenorth> Russian-sphere-of-influence-Horse?
08:05:59  <andythenorth> dunno where Ukraine fits in that :P
08:06:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQhm
08:06:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that mainly falls apart at the border between european std gauge and wide gauge
08:07:48  <andythenorth> preventing invasion
08:07:55  <Eddi|zuHause> that border shifted a bit around WWII
08:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i can tell, it did nothing against an invasion in either direction :p
08:09:49  * andythenorth has been reading books about railroads in war
08:10:14  <andythenorth> no war in OpenTTD :P
08:10:40  <Flygon> Meanwhile Australia can't decide on its gauge because New South Wales ruined everything and reneged on its agreement. >:(
08:10:55  <Flygon> The IDEA was that NSW/VIC/SA would use 1600mm. And Queensland would use 1067mm.
08:11:07  <Flygon> Then the guy in charge in NSW died, got replaced, and the new guy had a real boner for 1435mm.
08:11:18  <Flygon> Seriously.
08:11:46  <Flygon> (Nobody's really mad at Queensland for using a Narrower Gauge, at least. They were at least justified. :v)
08:12:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure railway gauge is the most heated discussion in australia ever.
08:12:58  <Eddi|zuHause> it will be THE pivot topic deciding the next election
08:13:09  <andythenorth> Strayan Horse
08:13:13  <Flygon> It's up there with High Speed Rail.
08:13:22  <andythenorth> what about NBN?
08:13:27  <Flygon> It gets mentioned around Election Season, then dropped quietly.
08:13:31  <Flygon> NBN?
08:13:33  <Flygon> Oh man.
08:13:34  <Flygon> Uhm.
08:13:40  <Flygon> What're the rules of language in this channel again?
08:13:45  <andythenorth> how's your broadband speed? o_O
08:13:46  <Flygon> How fowl is my language allowed to be?
08:13:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's certainly not going to be about immigration and concentration camps, or destroying the great barrier reef with coal ships, or something
08:13:53  <Flygon> I get 50/20mbits.
08:14:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: "english only" :p
08:14:05  <Flygon> Eddi|zuHause: Oh boy. The island camps.
08:14:16  <Flygon> Some stuff happened yesterday and this morning regarding that.
08:14:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i read that
08:14:24  <Flygon> But I cbf explaining. You can google. :P
08:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> well, a very stripped down version of it
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08:15:47  <Flygon> But, yeah.
08:15:49  <Flygon> The uh...
08:15:55  <Flygon> To be stating facts strictly.
08:16:04  <Flygon> The Right Wing Governments here, both State and Federal level.
08:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause> something along the lines of "the last time the opposition passed a law against the government was in 1929"
08:16:17  <Flygon> Are getting absolutely flogged due to the shenanigans they're pulling.
08:16:42  <Flygon> The Victorian Elections went almost unbelievably successfully for the Labor (left wing) party.
08:16:56  <Flygon> Everyone expected them to win. Nobody expected them to win by such a ridiculous margin.
08:17:11  <Flygon> We're expecting repeats in the NSW and Federal Elections in the coming months.
08:18:28  <Flygon> But to explain what's gone on in detail is probably well beyond the scope of #openttd <_>
08:31:48  <andythenorth> 89% Horse :P
08:32:01  <andythenorth> it gets to 93% then goes backwards :P
08:32:08  <andythenorth> some kind of Zeno paradox
08:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it's always the last 90%...
08:32:25  <andythenorth> maybe it's fractal
08:32:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQhi
08:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it'll never be 100%
08:32:58  <andythenorth> the level of precision keeps increasing
08:33:02  <andythenorth> hmm BIAB
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08:33:17  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like closing tickets. the more you close, the faster they regrow :p
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09:01:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7219: Change: Use SlErrorCorrupt() on pool index error when loading a savegame, instead of terminating. https://git.io/fhQLM
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09:53:38  <andythenorth> vehicle variants then
09:53:40  <andythenorth> for 1.9
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12:13:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i got myself in a bit of a pickle https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/943971207929274589/BAF2F224E2066B3C0DD004AF117E633904A2D30A/
12:14:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gabda87 commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7fy
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12:45:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7J3
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14:18:21  <dihedral> greetings
14:28:37  <peter1138> Hi.
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14:34:51  <samu> hi
14:36:20  <peter1138> Hi.
14:37:22  <supermop_work> yo
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15:44:00  <_dp_> error: static assertion failed: NUM_CARGO == 32
15:44:08  <_dp_> merging escalated quickly :(
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15:57:46  <peter1138> Merging what?
15:58:24  <_dp_> patchpack
15:58:30  <peter1138> Oh.
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16:20:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7Lm
16:26:01  <_dp_> peter1138, surprising? shouldn't they be just a regular manhattan voronoi cells?
16:26:03  <_dp_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voronoi_diagram#/media/File:Manhattan_Voronoi_Diagram.svg
16:26:26  <peter1138> Surprising as in I've never thought about it.
16:26:53  <peter1138>  In my head it was just a diamond around each town :p
16:28:14  <peter1138> Voronoi diagrams are not something that I ever learned about.
16:28:19  <_dp_> they're diamond when limited by authority distance
16:28:45  <peter1138> Except when near other towns.
16:30:10  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder how switching it to Euclidean would change things.
16:30:22  <_dp_> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voronoi_diagram#/media/File:Euclidean_Voronoi_diagram.svg
16:30:31  <peter1138> I mean in game.
16:30:59  <_dp_> well, for authority it won't change much
16:32:07  <_dp_> for cargo payments tho euclidian will be a huge change
16:32:37  <_dp_> and rail distances
16:32:58  <peter1138> I just mean for nearest town purposes.
16:33:02  <peter1138> But yeah, probably not much.
16:33:17  <peter1138> Might affect which town a station gets associated with in some cases, but not much else.
16:49:55  <peter1138> I saw a nice generator that used voronoi stuff but I had no idea how to convert it to C++ :/
16:52:31  <peter1138> Hmm
17:01:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7tI
17:08:17  <_dp_> well, in general voronoi usually means computational geometry
17:08:41  <_dp_> town cache is such a simple case that it's basically voronoi in just a name
17:10:02  <nielsm> I agree it might be a bit overreaching naming everything about it voronoi
17:24:36  <_dp_> btw, have anyone checked that new cache matches old authority calculations?
17:24:54  <_dp_> coz the way it's build doesn't look quite right to me
17:28:10  <nielsm> re-add the original check as "dead" code, and make an assert check in the loop that calculates the overall cache
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17:48:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh7qw
17:48:41  <peter1138> Yeah, something like that.
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17:55:54  <peter1138> Hmm
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18:09:24  <Gabda> Hmm?
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18:15:06  <LordAro> hmm.
18:15:39  <peter1138> Oh gods, why did I bother downloading zBase :/
18:15:40  <nielsm> mmh?
18:16:45  <peter1138> And it's in hg, not git :/
18:17:13  <peter1138> Last touched in 2012, gosh.
18:17:29  <peter1138> I declare it dead. We should remove it ;)
18:17:30  <LordAro> rip zeph
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18:36:07  <andythenorth> o/
18:37:48  <Wolf01> o/
18:42:05  <peter1138> Hello.
18:42:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7224: Change: Use selected group as parent when creating a new group. https://git.io/fh7Y4
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18:53:09  <andythenorth> rivers done? :)
18:53:25  <peter1138> Have you done it?
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18:56:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation https://git.io/fh7YS
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19:06:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6965: Add: Option for population-linear town cargo generation https://git.io/fh7Of
19:07:11  <peter1138> I suppose I should test it, as I wanted it :p
19:07:20  <andythenorth> over-rated
19:07:22  <andythenorth> just ship it
19:07:28  <peter1138> And, oh my god, how can this pack of rice contain so many calories :/
19:08:12  <samu> I want to suggest a lower max opcodes
19:08:24  <peter1138> Set a lower max opcodes then.
19:08:27  <samu> 5000 with 15 AIs is still
19:08:31  <samu> ... heavy
19:10:06  <samu> I was thinking of 1250
19:10:17  <peter1138> How arbitrary.
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19:11:00  <samu> current default is 10000/medium
19:11:10  <samu> equivalent to 2500/veryfast
19:11:50  <samu> the lowest that can be set right now is 5000
19:12:09  <samu> equivalent to 1250/veryfast
19:12:24  <samu> there, my "math"
19:12:26  <peter1138> What's veryfast medium about?
19:12:47  <samu> competitor speed, which isn't really what I thought it was
19:13:13  <samu> at medium, it executes once every 4 ticks
19:13:17  <peter1138> Ah, a hangover from the old difficult settings.
19:13:21  <peter1138> +ly
19:13:58  <peter1138> Hmm, yeah, weird it just makes the AI not do anything for a few ticks.
19:14:47  <samu> and it causes spiky framerate
19:14:54  <peter1138> It suppose that's what it always did.
19:15:10  <nielsm> smaller bits of work more often sounds better to me
19:15:15  <peter1138> Seems like it's kinda irrelevant.
19:15:35  <peter1138> max_opcodes/competitor_speed would spread it out but seems weird too.
19:15:58  <samu> I tried at lower of 500 #opcodes, but it's just too slow
19:16:10  <samu> too sleepy
19:16:15  <samu> even at very fast
19:16:42  <samu> but it can maintain average of 33 fps with 15 ais 4096x4096
19:16:58  <samu> AIs just don't do much :/
19:17:11  <peter1138> nielsm, I think "leaving things til after 1.9" is only really for something big like NRT that has the potential to cause havoc.
19:17:24  <peter1138> nielsm, 6965 doesn't have that potential, I think.
19:17:52  <peter1138> Well yes, AIs don't do much -> it's faster. Not that surprising.
19:20:10  <samu> or just ditch competitor speed alltogether and let us put the equivalent in opcodes
19:20:59  <peter1138> It's a left over from the old difficulty settings. Hmm.
19:22:31  <samu> 10000/medium
19:22:37  <samu> 5000/fast
19:22:45  <samu> 2500/veryfast
19:22:51  <samu> 20000/slow
19:22:55  <samu> 40000/veryslow
19:23:34  <samu> current minimum is 5000/veryslow
19:23:47  <peter1138> Isn't that the wrong way around?
19:23:48  <samu> 2500/slow
19:23:59  <peter1138> More opcodes == faster AI.
19:24:00  <samu> 1250/medium
19:24:27  <peter1138> Oh, you you mean those values would end up the same.
19:24:30  <samu> 625/fast
19:24:41  <samu> 312/veryfast
19:24:50  <samu> 312 new minimum
19:26:34  <samu> and AIs would always be very fast from now on
19:26:45  <samu> execute every tick that is
19:28:56  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder, is there a reason that max_opcodes is not changeable.
19:29:08  <samu> I don't really know
19:29:31  <samu> haven't tried
19:30:16  <peter1138> Squirrel::Resume(max_ops) seems to code with it being changed.
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19:45:26  <michi_cc> samu: Competitor speed might not be as pointless as you think; AIs are suspended if they execute a command, even if they have opcodes left. Less commands per time isn't the same as less opcodes per time.
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19:55:33  <peter1138> michi_cc, ah, of cousre.
19:58:01  <peter1138> Hmm, can GameScripts impersonate companies?
19:58:28  <peter1138> Looks like no.
20:08:18  <_dp_> they can
20:09:02  <_dp_> it's almost the only thing they can do :d
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20:21:07  <peter1138> Hm, I guess I can't call ScriptObject::DoCommand twice in the API :-)
20:26:40  <frosch123> you can
20:27:06  <frosch123> road construction always joins bridges/tunnels/stations with neighbouring tiles
20:28:01  <frosch123> see ScriptBridge::_BuildBridgeRoad1/2
20:32:57  <peter1138> Oh, right.
20:34:37  <peter1138> I see, it's basically a callback function.
20:35:20  <frosch123> it's waiting for c++20 coroutines :p
20:43:31  <LordAro> oh no
20:43:54  <samu> LordAro: your AI is very effective
20:43:59  <peter1138> Ok, maybe it would just be better to make the AI make two separate calls.
20:44:19  <samu> doesn't need many opcodes, or speed to have things going
20:44:44  <samu> mine, on the other hand... is tragic
20:45:33  <samu> unless it's only allowed airports, that doesn't need much thinking
20:47:19  <peter1138> Hmm, having to copy enums just for the AI is annoying :/
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21:03:19  <samu> well, just let me input a value lower than 5000 at least
21:03:29  <samu> the minimum I ask
21:03:42  <samu> michi_cc:
21:04:18  <peter1138> samu, you know how to submit a PR.
21:04:39  <samu> does it really warrant a PR? :o
21:04:57  <peter1138> Yes.
21:05:05  <peter1138> Everyone has to do PR.
21:05:10  <peter1138> PRs.
21:05:33  <m3henry> Either a PR or overwrite priveledge is how it works
21:06:04  <peter1138> Nobody it set up to be able to push directly.
21:06:08  <peter1138> -it+is
21:06:20  <m3henry> Is good idea
21:06:44  <samu> finally the dream of 4096x4096 with 15 AIs running is close
21:07:07  <samu> without much lag
21:07:17  <samu> unpit delay
21:07:19  <samu> input
21:07:58  <samu> or i may just need a better cpu
21:07:58  <peter1138> Yeah but it'll take them ages to do anything.
21:09:59  <samu> I'd like to suggest different defaults while I'm at it, but that's asking too much i guess
21:12:56  <samu> besides, I'm not 100% confident, only about 95%
21:12:56  <peter1138> So what could AIs do with vehicle groups?
21:13:08  <peter1138> I know they can create them.
21:13:33  <samu> easy to the eye
21:13:41  <samu> see a group for each route
21:13:58  <samu> see how good the route performs
21:14:05  <peter1138> Would subgroups be useful?
21:14:13  <peter1138> Currently AIs can't set parent group.
21:14:29  <samu> not sure what's a subgroup
21:14:45  <peter1138> Groups can be arranged to have parents, a heirarchical structure./
21:14:53  <peter1138> So you can create groups within groups.
21:15:03  <peter1138> But this not available to AIs.
21:15:05  <samu> also groups can have their own autoreplace, instead of a global autoreplace
21:15:13  <peter1138> At least, unless I commit this patch.
21:15:54  <samu> i think groups are also lighter in terms of creating lists
21:16:00  <samu> vehicle lists
21:16:29  <peter1138> Yeah, you can get a smaller list that's already filtered.
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21:30:29  <samu> 312 is such a weird number
21:30:36  <samu> not a round num
21:31:39  <samu> what do you say of 312-250000 opcodes?
21:31:52  <samu> instead of 5000-250000
21:35:14  <LordAro> samu: :)
21:36:32  <samu> 300?
21:37:09  <peter1138> Ooh, that's good goat's cheese
21:37:38  <samu> 500?
21:38:04  <peter1138> Weirdly, combined with the cracker it has a definite sweetness, but each by themselves does not...
21:38:09  <samu> by math, the number is 312.5
21:41:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
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21:51:38  <peter1138> Ok, so what AI class would a list of company/group colours come under?
21:52:24  <peter1138> The colour list is used by widget codes throughout the game...
21:55:17  <glx> hmm both
21:55:36  <peter1138> Both?
21:55:49  <peter1138> Seems odd.
21:55:57  <glx> well the list is linked to the company I think
21:56:27  <glx> and groups use colors from the list
21:56:45  <peter1138> The list of colours is defined in gfx_type.h
22:02:15  <peter1138> Colours could potentially be used for something else, maybe.
22:07:36  <samu> is it possible for AIs to get the profit a group is making?
22:08:13  <peter1138> Looks like no at the moment.
22:08:20  <samu> profit this year
22:08:23  <samu> profit last year
22:08:26  <samu> current usage
22:08:41  <peter1138> Hmm, individual vehicles.
22:08:51  <peter1138> I'll try adding it.
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22:15:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
22:16:54  <peter1138> I wonder, is that a group function or a vehicle function?
22:17:07  <peter1138> It needs to iterate vehicles, rather than groups.
22:19:52  <andythenorth> mmm
22:19:55  <andythenorth> vehicle variants
22:20:00  * andythenorth digresses
22:20:02  <peter1138> Oh, and I forgot about subgroups :/
22:20:17  <peter1138> Although I think subgroups are ignored for display anyway. Hmm.
22:20:24  <peter1138> andythenorth, Yes No
22:20:27  <peter1138> NRT testing/
22:20:33  <andythenorth> I am testink
22:28:32  <peter1138> Wait, Minecraft now has foxes...
22:31:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
22:32:15  <peter1138> samu, ^ could try that PR.
22:38:34  <glx> hmm but if AI wan't group profit, it can do the addition
22:38:47  <peter1138> Can it? Hmm.
22:39:09  <glx> it can get all the vehicles from the group I think
22:39:22  <glx> then valute
22:39:28  <glx> *valuate
22:39:48  <peter1138> Well that was a waste of my time then.
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22:40:11  <peter1138> Although, for last year profit, it's already cached so getting that would be quicker.
22:40:39  <glx> well if the player has access to the sum,AI should too, but if player don't then AI should do itself
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22:41:30  <peter1138> Yeah, player can see it in the groups window.
22:41:41  <peter1138> Hmm, also this "current usage %" thing
22:41:53  <glx> so it's ok to give the stats to the AI too then
22:42:20  <peter1138> I better add the current usage stuff :D
22:42:51  <glx> I think the rule is AI and player should get the same infos
22:49:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
22:53:34  <peter1138> "/azure-pipelines-ci.yml: Unable to find file /azure-pipelines/templates/ci-git-rebase.yml in repository self using ref refs/pull/7225/merge and commit 902ca7899805ed51b3ef2b8f25018ff5a28b1261: Not Found"
22:53:38  <peter1138> Hmm, well...!
22:56:46  <LordAro> well that's inconvenient
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23:10:24  <glx> weird error
23:13:31  <peter1138> The build # is different.
23:13:47  <glx> yes and that's weird too
23:14:31  <glx> hmm build number is correct indeed
23:14:43  <glx> just not yet replaced with date
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23:19:59  <peter1138> Working this time.
23:20:57  <glx> maybe a network issue in the precedent pull
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