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Log for #openttd on 16th February 2019:
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00:01:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations. https://git.io/fh5qg
00:02:03  <peter1138> Well it worked in a quick test.
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00:02:18  <peter1138> I didn't test very nearby oil rigs.
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00:10:36  * drac_boy keeps thinking more to myself on rails
00:14:32  <Samu> repositories
00:14:35  <Samu> bah
00:14:47  <Samu> tells me to push
00:15:07  <Samu> if I pull, I get conflicts
00:16:18  <Samu> recycle bin solved
00:16:44  <Samu> clone again
00:17:52  <peter1138> Hmm, so it's 55 less lines added.
00:19:39  <Samu> omg, to test sub-groups, I need to edit many parts of my ai
00:19:47  <Samu> arf :/
00:20:06  <Samu> sentToDepotAirGroup[i] = AIGroup.CreateGroup(AIVehicle.VT_AIR); invalid number of parameters
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00:20:49  <peter1138> just add INVALID_GROUP as a parameter.
00:20:58  <peter1138> It's a shame we can't do optional parameters.
00:21:16  <Samu> but I haven't finnalized v8 yet
00:21:24  <Samu> final
00:21:44  <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder.
00:22:02  <Samu> v8 is for 1.4 api
00:22:19  <Samu> now im testing 1.9 api
00:22:28  <peter1138> AIGroup._CreateGroup <- AIGroup.CreateGroup;
00:22:31  <Samu> without having upload v8
00:22:57  <peter1138> AIGroup.CreateGroup <- function(vehicle_type, parent_group_id = INVALID_GROUP)
00:23:11  <peter1138> { return AIGroup._Create(vehicle_type, parent_group_id);
00:23:13  <peter1138> }
00:23:22  <peter1138> You never know.
00:23:30  <peter1138> My keyboard is squeaking :(
00:23:47  <Samu> but this group specifically
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00:23:55  <Samu> it to become sub.group
00:24:00  <peter1138> Hmm?
00:24:19  <Samu> have to re-invent
00:25:02  <Samu> I don't feel like testing this atm, my current stuff for v8 is already a big pile of mess
00:25:11  <Samu> i rather finish v8 first
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00:27:01  <Samu> the changelog... omg
00:27:06  <Samu> the boring
00:27:45  <peter1138> k
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00:29:35  <peter1138> Aww, my company went bust.
00:29:41  <peter1138> Guess I should've played it a bit more :p
00:30:12  <peter1138> Infrastructure costs + inflation make a difficult game :p
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01:04:36  <supermop_Home> yo
01:05:01  <drac_boy> hi big mop :)
01:05:02  <drac_boy> heh
01:06:19  <glx> peter1138: I don't fully understand the after load part
01:08:01  <peter1138> ok
01:08:45  <glx> the station loop I see why, but the else part
01:09:11  <peter1138> The else is because I didn't bother saving the st->industry reference.
01:09:56  <peter1138> So it's two-way associative when loaded, but only one-way when saved.
01:10:08  <peter1138> Maybe it'll be simpler to just save it.
01:10:42  <glx> oh I see, st->ind->st and ind->st->ind
01:10:47  <drac_boy> anyway going off for other things before bedtime tonight .. have fun still :)
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01:11:04  <peter1138> glx, yeah, gets a bit mad.
01:11:43  <glx> and can be an infinite indirection ;)
01:12:22  <peter1138> Just hope that st->ind and ind->st match!
01:15:45  <glx> yeah saving industry ref implies adding some saveload stuff
01:16:30  <peter1138> saveload bump was already there from samu's setting addition, so.
01:19:05  <glx> your changes make it simpler
01:19:31  <glx> and revert a lot of the original changes :)
01:21:05  <peter1138> Yes.
01:22:52  <glx> oh a forgotten doxygen update
01:23:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations. https://git.io/fh5mz
01:30:08  <glx> and it's also more generic and future proof, in case new industries get a neutral station
01:30:43  <peter1138> Yup.
01:30:53  <peter1138> The only reference to oilrigs is in the saveload conversion.
01:31:07  <glx> where it matters
01:31:10  <peter1138> Also the original didn't take care of then st->xy isn't a station tile any more.
01:31:19  <peter1138> I think that can happen when a station is removed.
01:32:02  <glx> removed and in the waiting for rebuild window ?
01:32:09  <peter1138> Yeah
01:32:19  <peter1138> I had it crash on load, hence the test.
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02:37:13  <peter1138> Hmm, if I change a config setting from bool to byte, can I make it not complain about the value being true/false rather than 1/0?
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02:41:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations. https://git.io/fh5qg
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02:52:03  <peter1138> Ah, savegame bump I guess.
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06:06:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Moth-Tolias commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh53e
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07:05:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7225: Add: Various AI/GS functions that may be useful. https://git.io/fh7Gz
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07:37:55  <nielsm> hm one of the changes already in was that oil rigs check a larger area for clear water, right? meaning they should no longer clump quite this bad, right? https://0x0.st/zzhd.png
07:42:06  <Flygon> That's...
07:42:07  <Flygon> ...
07:42:09  <Flygon> Quite clumped.
07:42:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations. https://git.io/fh5s8
07:51:25  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/catchment0.png < original catchment
07:51:35  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/catchment1.png < modified catchment
07:51:44  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/catchment2.png < new sparse catchment
07:52:16  <peter1138> nielsm, dunno but that looks profitable (without the neutral stations patch)
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07:52:31  <nielsm> yes :P
07:52:43  <nielsm> a quite good proposition to fill in the ocean
07:52:56  <peter1138> :D
07:53:23  <peter1138> Hmm, so station-walking is still worth doing, and it doesn't take much to just plonk down drive-through road stops every 7 tiles.
07:53:29  <nielsm> and those catchment areas look nice
07:53:45  <peter1138> That's all just one station, btw.
07:54:28  <peter1138> Oh, well I suppose that's obvious part from the last pic :)
07:54:43  <nielsm> yeah, it's still excessive-ish, but at least better and more intuitive
07:55:04  <peter1138> This is a save taken from the current reddit multiplayer server.
07:55:12  <peter1138> So this white player is very good at station-spreading.
07:55:22  <nielsm> above that you'd just have to decrease max station spread
07:55:23  <peter1138> If I do it I tend to just stick a bus-stop in each corner.
07:55:39  <peter1138> In fact, the way this player does it makes me think they think catchment already works like the last pic.
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07:55:47  <nielsm> (if you don't want players abusing it)
07:55:54  <Alberth> hai
07:55:57  <nielsm> yep
07:56:15  <nielsm> only those of those bus stops are actually required
07:56:25  <nielsm> only two of*
07:56:33  <peter1138> So the big issue with this patch is the FOR_ALL_STATIONS loop within FindStationsAroundTiles()
07:57:11  <nielsm> and btw, variable catchment area is the modified catchment area, the fixed area is the original
07:57:29  <peter1138> Yes
07:57:52  <peter1138> Did I mislabel it?
07:58:38  <nielsm> yes when you linked those screenshots above :)
07:58:41  <nielsm> bbl, shower
08:01:59  <peter1138> Are you sure?
08:02:37  <peter1138> I keep looking and I can't see it :p
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08:10:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5s1
08:10:47  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, ^^
08:12:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5sy
08:17:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations. https://git.io/fh5s9
08:25:41  *** D-HUND is now known as debdog
08:25:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5sN
08:25:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations. https://git.io/fh5sA
08:31:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations. https://git.io/fh5sh
08:36:01  <nielsm> well, it looks like Samu doesn't have the experience with software to judge maintainability of code well, so it's no bit surprise when his patches end up as spaghetti...
08:37:15  <peter1138> Yeah, definitely a "well this seems to work" approach.
08:37:35  <peter1138> But damn, #7235's performance hit :(
08:38:12  <nielsm> 2.5x...
08:38:15  <nielsm> it's bad
08:38:17  <peter1138> Also I realise now it 'break' the existing  industry->station catchment test.
08:39:02  <peter1138> (It makes that work like people expect too)
08:39:45  <peter1138> If I add the tile-looping back in and build a station list that way, it should improve things.
08:40:05  <peter1138> Need to increase the map array to store all nearby stations to a tile ;)
08:40:28  <peter1138> Hmm. Actually it is doable.
08:41:06  <peter1138> Could add stations_nearby to industry and towns, and just check those lists.
08:41:38  <peter1138> Maintaining those lists could be fun :/
08:58:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5Gq
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09:13:20  <andythenorth> so should I do pacers pikka bob?
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09:54:51  <planetmaker> moin
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10:06:57  <Alberth> o/
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10:54:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #48: finger.openttd.org https://git.io/fh5Z1
10:56:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7221: Is there any way to crawling a new version? https://git.io/fh5ZS
10:56:36  <TrueBrain> we really need Slack / Discord :P
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10:59:32  <planetmaker> We got a request by the owners of r/openttd whether they could be listed as the official OpenTTD discord channel. Any terms and requirements we might have are open to discussion
10:59:40  <Wolf01> o/
10:59:41  <planetmaker> moin also :)
10:59:57  <TrueBrain> in my opinion, we need 1 official channel. So either IRC, Discord, Slack, ...
11:00:13  <LordAro> doesn't make much sense for them to be the "official" channel
11:00:15  <TrueBrain> I personally don't really care; I just noticed that IRC is not really helping with communication :D
11:00:17  <planetmaker> So ... if we want that. We actually could do that. And as you probably know best... there are IRC2discord bridges
11:00:25  <LordAro> they can be the official unofficial channel
11:00:32  <Wolf01> ^
11:00:33  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I agree
11:00:37  <TrueBrain> so shall we just do that? :P
11:00:39  <planetmaker> how is discord really better than IRC - or vice versa?
11:00:49  <Eddi|zuHause> let's move back to freenode? :p
11:00:54  <TrueBrain> I can make a 'finger' channel, where people using it can join
11:00:54  <Wolf01> Lol
11:00:56  <TrueBrain> so we can chat
11:01:00  <TrueBrain> yes, you can make 'channels' on IRC
11:01:03  <TrueBrain> but nobody would know they exist :P
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11:01:14  <planetmaker> would people know on discord?
11:01:17  <TrueBrain> yes
11:01:19  <TrueBrain> it lists it on the left
11:01:22  <TrueBrain> including descriptions
11:01:31  <TrueBrain> super-duba-useful :)
11:01:38  <Wolf01> So you want me to move on discord?
11:01:46  <TrueBrain> (among many other reasons, but this one triggered my comment :D)
11:02:08  <planetmaker> my personal opinion on that is: iff we make an official openttd discord, then it would need an irc2discord bridge
11:02:24  <TrueBrain> Discord closed down their IRC gateway
11:02:31  <planetmaker> really? :(
11:02:37  <TrueBrain> over a year ago, I believe?
11:02:48  <LordAro> i would have a very difficult time moving to discord
11:02:55  <planetmaker> I'm pretty sure I've seen irc2discord briges in the wild much more recently
11:02:59  <TrueBrain> so you need third party stuff like https://github.com/reactiflux/discord-irc
11:03:08  <Eddi|zuHause> what definitely won't work is having two separate chats in parallel
11:03:14  <LordAro> ^
11:03:17  <LordAro> so much this
11:03:18  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: exactly; one or the other, not both
11:03:20  <planetmaker> I totally agree with eddi
11:03:23  <TrueBrain> if people want to bridge in themself, fine
11:03:36  <TrueBrain> LordAro: "very difficult time" is hard to argue with, as no reason is given :D
11:03:55  <TrueBrain> if you could word why that would be difficult? (I know that can be difficult)
11:03:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never even looked at what discord is
11:04:04  <TrueBrain> after all: https://xkcd.com/1782/
11:04:06  <Wolf01> I have my own empty channels on IRC :P
11:04:16  <planetmaker> tbh, I'm more comfortable with IRC. It's more light weight to some degree... yet discord seems slightly more accessible. But there's web interfaces to both
11:04:49  <TrueBrain> Discord / Slack is much more accessible by a large portion of nowedays developers
11:04:55  <TrueBrain> but more important, users
11:04:55  <planetmaker> anyhow, what do *you* think, TB, we would gain by switching to or integrating discord?
11:05:04  <TrueBrain> IRC is really alienating for users
11:05:14  <LordAro> if anything irc is easier for users to join one-off
11:05:24  <LordAro> no faffing around with sign up
11:05:25  <Eddi|zuHause> discord means installing a single proprietary client instead of having a choice?
11:05:28  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I disagree; how many passing-by users do we have, a month? :D
11:05:48  <planetmaker> discord has a web interface. You might need an account, though... which is a clear negative
11:05:52  <LordAro> how many would there be with discord?
11:06:07  <LordAro> you say that as if there would be more with discord
11:06:29  <TrueBrain> LordAro: other projects have shown there would
11:06:34  <TrueBrain> but of course, one cannot predict the future
11:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause> is "random passer-by" really the target audience for this move?
11:06:48  <TrueBrain> btw, I keep saying Slack / Discord, as they both have their pros and cons
11:06:50  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, where are those numbers (and not just claims)?
11:06:52  <Wolf01> Also new DorpsGek?
11:07:16  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: good question if someone wrote it down (either way btw); it is just what other projects have shown :) (there is a reason Slack is so popular, after all)
11:07:48  <LordAro> i don't think i know anyone who actually likes using slack
11:07:52  <planetmaker> I've never used slack. So... not my experience of it being popular. It might be for people who are in some fields software development
11:07:54  <planetmaker> but not generally
11:08:12  <planetmaker> thus I doubt it's "more accessible"
11:08:15  <TrueBrain> what might help, if you just joina Slack and/or Discord channel
11:08:17  <TrueBrain> to see for yourself
11:08:40  <planetmaker> I know discord. I use it to some degree. It's ... mixed benefits and drawbacks IMHO
11:08:48  <TrueBrain> nothing is perfect, after all
11:08:57  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: not sure about your Slack statement :)
11:09:07  <TrueBrain> but your current field might not use it much
11:09:09  <TrueBrain> that is hard to argue :)
11:09:25  <TrueBrain> most companies I know, even outside IT, use Slack these days; not sure that is a good or bad thing btw
11:09:27  <TrueBrain> or Microsoft Teams
11:09:31  <TrueBrain> but .. meh .. paid :P
11:09:58  <LordAro> (premium) slack is not cheap
11:10:08  <planetmaker> I will never agree to a vendor-locked-in communication means for an OSS project
11:10:08  <LordAro> and the free slack gets limiting very quickly
11:10:13  <TrueBrain> last we checked, we don't need premium LordAro :)
11:10:28  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: where did that came from? :P
11:10:33  <planetmaker> slack...
11:10:34  <TrueBrain> (like a truck from the left :D)
11:10:59  <Alberth> no free open source clients for discord?
11:11:01  <TrueBrain> I always have a hard time with these arguments .. like we are now not 'vendor locked' into OFTC? :P
11:11:10  <LordAro> TrueBrain: free slack has very limited scrollback and storage
11:11:14  <TrueBrain> I don't really understand (but please explain)
11:11:28  <Alberth> TB: oftc is a channel provider, not a software client provider
11:11:31  <Wolf01> We could just install our irc server, you know
11:11:40  <TrueBrain> LordAro: as we have these conversations every N months currently, I should write these things down ..but didnt they have an OSS thingy?
11:11:43  <Wolf01> But not our discord
11:11:52  <TrueBrain> but the migration would be the same?
11:12:06  <TrueBrain> so how is migration from 1 IRC server to another different from 1 software to the other?
11:12:09  <planetmaker> discord is discord, and no real alternatives to access it. As far as I could establish it.
11:12:09  <TrueBrain> (honest question)
11:12:30  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, the migration is MUCH easier as you only need to point your irc client to another server
11:12:32  <Eddi|zuHause> just a random thing i found: https://github.com/adsr/irslackd
11:12:34  <planetmaker> not install a new software
11:12:38  <LordAro> it's an awful lot easier for existing irc users to move to a different network/server to a completely different platform
11:12:41  <Alberth> discord looks very vendor-locked to me
11:12:55  <LordAro> can confirm
11:13:00  <LordAro> there are no third party clients
11:13:16  <LordAro> and they actively work to shut down any that appear, last i checked
11:13:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so from the 5 minutes of random searching i just did, i would say slack, not discord
11:13:33  <planetmaker> yep, I have to agree @ alberth, LordAro
11:13:34  <LordAro> both slack & discord have gotten rid of their irc gateways in the last year
11:13:35  <TrueBrain> anyway, how did we end up in this converstaion? Ah, yes, I was looking for a way so we could more easier talk about people using finger, and people creating finger .. this is currently rather annoying, as changes are now reactive (as you can see by the tickets / threads)
11:13:58  <LordAro> it's a one off change though?
11:14:05  <planetmaker> ok, TrueBrain how would discord or slack have made this conversation easier?
11:14:11  <TrueBrain> for years I didnt dare to change finger, as it would break people using it
11:14:14  <TrueBrain> which is not ideal :)
11:14:23  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: because you make a channel dedicated to people using it
11:14:31  <TrueBrain> most Discord servers I am in, ahve an API group
11:14:32  <planetmaker> All discord I used so far, searching through any history is much more a PITA than here on IRC, if I really care
11:14:34  <LordAro> make the old one redirect to a page documenting the current format/location
11:14:35  <TrueBrain> where people using the API are in
11:14:38  <TrueBrain> absolutely briliant
11:14:48  <TrueBrain> LordAro: that just breaks tools
11:14:53  <TrueBrain> would take weeks for the authors to notice, if that
11:15:01  <TrueBrain> (reactive changes .. I am rather proactive in these)
11:15:36  <TrueBrain> a maillist is also shitty
11:15:38  <LordAro> i don't think there are ideal solutions to removing a well used endpoint
11:15:47  <LordAro> (with no notice)
11:15:56  <TrueBrain> and keeping it compatible is also rather difficult
11:16:01  <planetmaker> but... you don't want a separate channel for each topic. You can have that here, too
11:16:05  <TrueBrain> so I now just see people being a bit mad their tool no longer works :D
11:16:25  <TrueBrain> as I had no way of reaching them before hand
11:16:29  <TrueBrain> wonder what we can do to fix that
11:16:36  <TrueBrain> (instead of debating Slack vs IRC and stuff :P)
11:16:42  <planetmaker> :) k
11:17:17  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: tbh i doubt slack/discord would help reaching people who set up finger 5 years ago
11:17:58  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: again, I am no longer interested in that debate :)
11:18:08  <TrueBrain> I am asking for ideas to solve this reactive stance toward endpoint changes
11:18:18  <TrueBrain> I find it shitty towards people creating those tools
11:18:25  <Alberth> make a REST api on some http ?
11:18:29  <TrueBrain> now finding out via forum redirects and issue redirects that things changed
11:18:44  <Eddi|zuHause> a news post on the main website?
11:18:59  <LordAro> how about making the old endpoint return a 404 that contains a link to some page? it assumes they handle http error codes well, but we're not responsible for the quality of their software
11:19:00  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: we noticed they don't read that (do people read our news post in general? :D)
11:19:31  <TrueBrain> Alberth: hmm .. but that would mean we have to keep compatibility for ever, not?
11:19:33  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: don't bury it in paragraph 5 of a "we made a website redesign" post
11:19:53  <TrueBrain> LordAro: that again breaks it before the tool creators can fix it :)
11:20:05  <TrueBrain> (and clearly the tool creators are still around :P)
11:20:05  <LordAro> of course it does
11:20:11  <LordAro> there's no way to do anything about it
11:20:13  <TrueBrain> I mean, 3 people in 1 month, that is more than I expected :D
11:20:27  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: guess a 'developer news' of some sorts :P
11:20:38  <LordAro> if there was some sort of grace period, it might be more effective, but the nature of it meant that one was turned off straight away
11:20:49  <TrueBrain> LordAro: yup ..
11:21:00  <LordAro> sometimes you can't have a nice failover
11:21:09  <TrueBrain> and creating 10 hoops so things keep working, is not my favorite job in the world :D
11:21:18  <TrueBrain> meh; it just feels like a shitty thing
11:21:25  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
11:21:31  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, if you don't want to discuss a topic (slack...) you should not always bring it up (again) ;)
11:21:32  <TrueBrain> also keeps me from making changes
11:22:01  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: if you read back, I just gave a solution for a problem I was facing (the problem I described in the link that was posted just before)
11:22:09  <TrueBrain> I meant nothing by it, just some frustration that I did not have a solution
11:22:12  <TrueBrain> you made it a topic :)
11:22:17  <TrueBrain> (sorry, but you did :P)
11:22:20  <LordAro> 10:56:36 < TrueBrain> we really need Slack / Discord :P
11:22:24  <LordAro> hmm.
11:22:26  <TrueBrain> LordAro: one line above please :)
11:22:59  <LordAro> eh, tenuous
11:23:01  <LordAro> anyway
11:23:06  <TrueBrain> either way, talking about Slack vs IRC is healthy; but so far we have been going in circles when it comes up
11:23:14  <TrueBrain> so that is not a useful way to spend any of our times :)
11:23:20  <TrueBrain> so I rather agree that we disagree ;)
11:23:55  <TrueBrain> Dev Blog?
11:23:57  <TrueBrain> would that help?
11:24:11  <TrueBrain> "news" sounds so official
11:24:15  <LordAro> not any more than news posts would've, imo
11:24:26  <TrueBrain> for example, a nice dev blog would be to talk about NRT
11:24:33  <TrueBrain> but I wouldnt make a post out of it before it is merged
11:24:45  <planetmaker> News or dev blog. No need really to separate that
11:24:58  <TrueBrain> we always have been posting news post-fact
11:25:04  <planetmaker> Just give the posting an appropriate title - that's it
11:25:05  <TrueBrain> dev-blogs tend to be pre
11:25:11  <TrueBrain> but, just spinning ideas here
11:25:21  <Alberth> don't see how a REST api cannot have a version, and state what version is deprecated or 'expires in X months'
11:25:44  <LordAro> i have a suspicion a dev blog would be used less than news, therefore people would not check it anyway
11:25:45  <TrueBrain> Alberth: I agree; I guess my main worry is that people won't notice they use a deprecated endpoint
11:25:53  <TrueBrain> I guess in essence that is what I now notice?
11:25:59  <TrueBrain> LordAro: fair
11:26:03  <planetmaker> creating yet another communication channel which needs establishment won't help anyone
11:26:09  <Alberth> you need enough posts on the blog I think to keep people, but then the topics diversify too mcuh perhaps?
11:26:21  <TrueBrain> but, instead of saying "no", what can we do to make this a bit better?
11:26:26  <planetmaker> and certainly would not reach the people we would need to reach with change news like now
11:26:35  <LordAro> ultimately it requires someone to notice something, which isn't something you can force *without* breaking something
11:26:39  <TrueBrain> always enough arguments to not do something ;)
11:26:43  <LordAro> something something
11:26:52  <TrueBrain> as I just mentioned, I guess the same goes for things like NRT
11:26:56  <planetmaker> And... I don't have the feeling that our news postings are so frequent that people are hiding them already
11:27:02  <TrueBrain> would be nice if that is a bit more widely spread, so people can participate before it hits master
11:27:15  <Alberth> define the api to check expiration, and warn users
11:27:46  <TrueBrain> Alberth: what I have seen, is that you need to add an email to the UserAgent when using REST APIs
11:27:58  <TrueBrain> then you get an email on that address if you using an outdated endpoint
11:28:01  <TrueBrain> which was pretty nice, tbh
11:28:15  <LordAro> i do quite like the idea of a dev blog though, maybe just use the news platform until it's clear it's actually going to be used
11:28:31  <TrueBrain> LordAro: where it is located, that is another story indeed :)
11:28:45  <Alberth> you expect people to use the api so few times that the deprecation period has ended before they notice?
11:28:47  <TrueBrain> but 'dev blog' sounds less official than 'news' :D
11:28:54  <TrueBrain> Alberth: yes
11:29:12  <TrueBrain> Alberth: how these tools often go, how I make those tools: I use an endpoint, and I completely forget I do
11:29:18  <Wolf01> <LordAro> i have a suspicion a dev blog would be used less than news <- just copy-paste some irc log lines once a week :P
11:30:36  <Alberth> set up polling some access that barks when the requested version becomes depricated
11:30:50  <TrueBrain> Alberth: but how does the author notice, is my point
11:30:59  <TrueBrain> (instead of the enduser)
11:31:16  <Alberth> how do you make sure the author just walks away from the project?
11:31:26  <Alberth> *doesn't
11:31:34  <TrueBrain> those are not my interest; those tools die
11:31:35  <TrueBrain> so be it
11:31:48  <LordAro> speaking of, /me reads some FF
11:32:09  <TrueBrain> FF?
11:32:17  <Alberth> effe
11:32:18  <LordAro> https://factorio.com/blog/
11:32:30  <TrueBrain> ah :P
11:32:41  <LordAro> @seen V453000
11:32:41  <DorpsGek> LordAro: V453000 was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 3 days, 20 hours, 21 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <V453000> :0
11:33:28  <TrueBrain> LordAro: those FFs are a perfect example of 'dev blogs' btw
11:33:38  <LordAro> definitely
11:33:41  <TrueBrain> and how that helps with community participation :)
11:33:54  <Wolf01> FFF, not FF :P
11:34:01  <TrueBrain> fine, FFF
11:34:04  <TrueBrain> blame LordAro :P
11:34:20  <LordAro> Wolf01: i forgot the "Factorio" on the beginning
11:34:26  <TrueBrain> I guess what I am saying in a broader context, that in my opinion OpenTTD could be a bit more outwards, but I am missing the ways to do that
11:34:41  <LordAro> monthly seems more likely than weekly, but we could give it a go
11:34:48  <TrueBrain> doesn't feel that things are 'collaberations'
11:34:55  <Wolf01> That's a really interesting dev blog, maybe it's not always interesting for the end user, but I'm glad it is done
11:35:13  <LordAro> there's also https://this-week-in-rust.org/blog/2019/02/12/this-week-in-rust-273/
11:35:15  <planetmaker> @LordAro, FFF ;)
11:35:30  <planetmaker> and I'm slow
11:35:36  <TrueBrain> LordAro: good example
11:35:45  <TrueBrain> I always read the GitHub blog and DigitalOcean
11:35:52  <TrueBrain> really nice way to stay up-to-date
11:36:05  <TrueBrain> like for example: https://github.blog/2019-02-14-introducing-draft-pull-requests/
11:36:07  <Wolf01> It could be nice to do the OTTD dev blog, just reporting what we discuss here and andy's ponies too :P
11:36:07  <TrueBrain> no more WIP PRs :D
11:36:21  <TrueBrain> Wolf01: especially the ponies :)
11:36:33  <TrueBrain> possibly add things like new GRFs, and in-progress screenshots of that
11:36:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5nW
11:36:41  <TrueBrain> things like the talks about Squirrel 2 vs 3
11:36:58  <TrueBrain> but as always, who is going to pull that car ...
11:37:15  <TrueBrain> we need a community manager tbfh :)
11:37:15  <Wolf01> We could add some lines together
11:37:47  <TrueBrain> I first need to put a lunch together now :)
11:39:10  <LordAro> TrueBrain: sounds like Wolf01 just volunteered :p
11:39:37  <Eddi|zuHause> a "developer blog" only works if people regularly take time to write something
11:40:30  <LordAro> if we just start it off as a "Dev News Post" with the view to making it approximately monthly, we can review if it needs splitting out later
11:40:54  <Alberth> TrueBrain: why is it impossible to request that the author polls some url every X time?
11:41:19  <Alberth> once a week/month or so
11:41:25  <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think "make a pull request" isn't the right approach to find people making news posts
11:41:30  <TrueBrain> Alberth: I guess I don't understand what you mean :) Can you elaborate a bit more?
11:41:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5n4
11:42:04  <Alberth> TrueBrain: you're worried that our service gets changed without the author of some client knows, right?
11:42:07  <Wolf01> <LordAro> TrueBrain: sounds like Wolf01 just volunteered :p <- I could help, but not taking the whole task :P
11:42:10  <TrueBrain> Alberth: yes
11:42:28  <planetmaker> <LordAro> if we just start it off as a "Dev News Post" <-- you mean as title for a posting in our normal news? I totally agree
11:42:48  <Alberth> TrueBrain: so why not request of him to ask our sevice every X weeks if something interesting happened?
11:43:13  <Alberth> cron query.sh | mail me
11:43:18  <TrueBrain> LordAro: guess if we make a branch in 'website' for it, without permissions, and make a PR from there, anyone can add to the post before we merge the PR
11:43:33  <TrueBrain> Alberth: and if they don't, you disable their API access?
11:43:50  <TrueBrain> or you just mean as: in best practice, we suggest you to?
11:43:56  <TrueBrain> that last one is not a bad idea, tbh
11:43:58  <Alberth> their tool will eventually die due to protocol chnages
11:43:59  <TrueBrain> didn't consider that
11:44:14  <Alberth> just like a author walking out
11:44:41  <Wolf01> I think everytime somebody has a big talk about a feature/change/request/pony should put it on a descriptive way, commenting it and explaining the outcome
11:44:57  <LordAro> TrueBrain: can such a branch exist?:
11:45:01  <TrueBrain> I think so
11:45:08  <TrueBrain> and that means you can use GitHub interface to edit
11:45:13  <TrueBrain> so no 'git' knowledge required
11:45:16  <LordAro> mm
11:45:26  <planetmaker> like edit in the browser?
11:47:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure i understand what you mean, but a simple website editor is definitely preferable
11:47:44  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/website/blob/monthly-dev-post/_posts/2019-03-01-monthly-dev-post.md
11:47:48  <TrueBrain> I think anyone can edit that now
11:48:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
11:48:28  <TrueBrain> there, even a PR
11:48:33  <TrueBrain> which updates when ever someone modifies the branch
11:48:35  <planetmaker> seems I can, yes
11:48:45  <planetmaker> but I'm logged-in to GH
11:48:47  <TrueBrain> I think I cannot make it easier :P
11:48:57  <planetmaker> that totally suffices
11:49:01  <LordAro> well, i imagine we don't want it to be open to "everyone"
11:49:03  <TrueBrain> sorry, with "everyone" I meant "everyone who is logged in to GH" :P
11:49:10  <LordAro> do we even want that?
11:49:13  <TrueBrain> LordAro: abuse will be punished? :)
11:49:23  <Eddi|zuHause> can we undo edits?
11:49:35  <LordAro> who would be likely to edit it that isn't a dev?
11:49:37  <TrueBrain> if _dp_ wants to talk about CityMania, I am fine with that tbh
11:49:48  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: they are commits, so yes
11:50:26  <TrueBrain> I would suggest we start without restrictions, and add them when needed?
11:50:34  <TrueBrain> (after all, accepting the PR needs a dev approval anyway)
11:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is the actual definition of "Ponies" anyway, besides the animal?
11:51:02  <TrueBrain> otherwise andy might not feel included!
11:51:05  <planetmaker> your personal projects you go wild about
11:52:01  <TrueBrain> Personal Official NonPublished Interesting En-devour
11:52:02  <planetmaker> so I guess your pony could be CETS and anything related to it ;)
11:52:06  <Eddi|zuHause> so, where is the edit button?
11:52:15  <planetmaker> it is even an acronym? :OL
11:52:21  <LordAro> :D
11:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
11:52:26  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: if we were on Discord, I could have showed you a screenshot :P
11:52:29  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: no, I made it up :)
11:52:33  <TrueBrain> but tnx for believing it :D
11:52:34  <planetmaker> :)
11:52:40  <planetmaker> sounded credible
11:52:47  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: its a pencil
11:53:02  <TrueBrain> Raw, Blame, History, screen, pencil, trashcan
11:53:10  <Wolf01> <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: if we were on Discord, I could have showed you a screenshot :P <- reduce traffic, post a link :P
11:53:10  <Eddi|zuHause> " You’re editing a file in a project you don’t have write access to. Submitting a change to this file will write it to a new branch in your fork Eddi-z/website, so you can send a pull request. "
11:53:22  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: hmm ..
11:53:24  <TrueBrain> interesting
11:53:32  <TrueBrain> where is that restriction coming from ..
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11:55:28  <TrueBrain> hmm .. nowhere? :(
11:56:56  <TrueBrain> ah .. you can only set that project-wide
11:57:00  <TrueBrain> (so for all OpenTTD repositories)
11:57:02  <TrueBrain> that is a bit much
11:57:33  <Eddi|zuHause> can't have branches with more relaxed access?
11:57:50  <TrueBrain> I was hoping they did
11:58:00  <TrueBrain> but I cannot find what prevents you from editing
11:58:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain closed pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
11:58:11  <TrueBrain> possibly this helps?
11:58:30  <LordAro> i was going to start by listing the merged PRs for the last month
11:58:34  <LordAro> but there's *a lot*
11:58:41  <LordAro> gonna want to script that
11:59:31  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: sounds like a bit much
11:59:51  <LordAro> yeah, maybe "notable" instead?
11:59:54  <LordAro> or not at all?
12:00:25  <TrueBrain> possibly in story form, link a few
12:00:34  <TrueBrain> like I expect some fuzz about network version
12:00:39  <TrueBrain> and beta1/beta2
12:01:02  <TrueBrain> ah; Eddi|zuHause, seems you need to be a Contributor first :)
12:01:22  <TrueBrain> so we are just going to add people on request for now
12:01:30  <Eddi|zuHause> so i'm only a contributor on OpenTTD project, but not Website project?
12:01:38  <TrueBrain> contributor is per repository, yes
12:01:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain reopened pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
12:02:48  <planetmaker> LordAro, it is good to actually include the PRs of last month. Too much... maybe. You can still curate / manually go over the list created by such script
12:05:22  <planetmaker> <TrueBrain> [12:01:02] ah; Eddi|zuHause, seems you need to be a Contributor first :) <-- that's fair, I guess. Anyone who wants to contribute to the blog can easily be made a contributor, I guess
12:05:28  <planetmaker> we're not too picky about that, are we?
12:05:50  <LordAro> planetmaker: keep reading :p
12:06:03  <LordAro> i'll see if i can come up with some sort of script for getting merged PRs
12:06:10  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I am not, no :P
12:06:15  <TrueBrain> cant speak for others :)
12:07:52  <Eddi|zuHause> now, how can i go from the PR back to the file that should be edited?
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12:10:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
12:12:25  <TrueBrain> :D
12:13:40  <Wolf01> +1
12:14:38  <TrueBrain> now I wonder what happens if I commit this, whil eI was working on an older version ..
12:15:12  <TrueBrain> "Eddi-z has committed since you started editing. See what changed"
12:15:43  <TrueBrain> clicking that link means losing your change :D Nice!
12:16:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
12:17:00  <TrueBrain> not sure I like the way I wrote some of that, but .. just to get it going a bit, I guess
12:18:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #48: finger.openttd.org https://git.io/fh5np
12:19:27  <TrueBrain> yeah, you can say a lot about GitHub, but this is done pretty nice :D
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12:26:58  <LordAro> curl -s "https://api.github.com/repos/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulls?state=closed&sort=updated&direction=desc&per_page=100" | jq 'map(select(.merged_at >= "2019-02-01")) | .[].title'
12:27:01  <LordAro> nice.
12:27:20  <TrueBrain> jq is nice :)
12:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> for when awk is too simple? :p
12:27:58  <TrueBrain> for when the payload is JSON, you silly :)
12:29:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
12:31:02  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: what often helps, is to put every sentence on a new line. When making changes, the diff doesn't become this single line :)
12:31:07  <TrueBrain> just a pro-tip when editing markdown files :)
12:31:21  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, might remember that next time
12:31:46  <TrueBrain> :D
12:31:51  <TrueBrain> and I like your addition
12:31:59  <TrueBrain> possibly we have to make clear that we just add anyone as contributor
12:32:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] Eddi-z updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
12:32:06  <TrueBrain> but we need them to have a simple way to find us
12:33:09  <LordAro> curl -s "https://api.github.com/repos/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulls?state=closed&sort=updated&direction=desc&per_page=100" | jq 'map(select(.merged_at >= "2019-02-01")) | .[] | "[\(.title)](\(.html_url))"' | sed 's/\"/"/g; s/^"\(.*\)"$//'
12:33:13  <LordAro> tada
12:33:16  <LordAro> preformatted markdown urls
12:33:35  <TrueBrain> that sed ..
12:33:41  <LordAro> it's great
12:33:52  <LordAro> i don't know what you're talking about :p
12:34:51  <Eddi|zuHause> what does ".[]" do?
12:35:33  <LordAro> expands the list
12:35:36  <LordAro> i think
12:36:12  <LordAro> seems like it's not necessary
12:39:05  <Wolf01> Mmmh, I never noticed that: https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/az9x6Km_460s.jpg
12:39:17  <Wolf01> It's derailed
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12:51:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
12:51:17  <TrueBrain> I like this GitHub interface editing :D
12:58:40  <planetmaker> 'Monlty' :P
12:59:04  <Wolf01> :D
12:59:30  <TrueBrain> I wanted to make sure you made an edit too :)
13:00:38  <planetmaker> I just talk the r/openttd guys to make a one-way irc2discord bridge from this channel to some of their discord ones ;)
13:02:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
13:05:37  <Xaroth> or, you know, just use slack/discord.
13:06:00  * LordAro smacks Xaroth
13:06:10  <TrueBrain> I join LordAro i.n the smacking
13:06:25  <Xaroth> I wub you too.
13:19:04  <peter1138> Hmmz
13:19:21  <peter1138> I should probably have some lunch
13:21:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5ch
13:21:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm having lunch
13:22:21  <peter1138> So how is IRC not helping?
13:22:37  <peter1138> There's quite a lot of people around on IRC during the week...
13:23:10  <peter1138> discord and the other crap can fuck right off imo
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13:24:55  <peter1138> TrueBrain, i've been using draft PRs, didn't realise it was new
13:25:19  <peter1138> Only thing I noticed is you can't see to turn a non-draft PR into a draft PR.
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13:31:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7232: Change: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings to ships. https://git.io/fh7DC
13:42:48  <DiscordBot2> Hi
13:43:05  <LordAro> suspicious
13:44:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7232: Change: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings to ships. https://git.io/fh5CC
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13:56:44  <planetmaker> very suspicious :P
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14:01:13  <Wolf01> Shh people are trying to sleep :P
14:04:59  <andythenorth> yo
14:07:35  <planetmaker> 'lo :)
14:07:39  *** Samu has joined #openttd
14:09:15  <DiscordBot_> Hey
14:09:22  *** DiscordBot_ has left #openttd
14:09:39  <Samu> hi
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14:17:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7232: Change: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings to ships. https://git.io/fh5CD
14:19:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5CS
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14:26:46  <pnda> Hi
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14:27:05  <Pikka> andythenorth, of course not pacers
14:30:33  <peter1138> Pacers
14:32:29  <andythenorth> I could 4/8 this http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html#tin_rocket
14:40:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5Cp
14:51:41  <pnda> Hi
14:51:50  <LordAro> o/
14:52:38  <Wolf01> Isn't variable size catchement area worse than the default one?
14:52:56  <peter1138> Worse how?
14:53:25  <Wolf01> It seem even bigger on the road stations part
14:53:32  <peter1138> Oh, well yes, that's the point.
14:53:47  <Wolf01> Even more abuse
14:53:58  <peter1138> Variable has been in the game forever, normally refered to as modified catchment.
14:54:12  <peter1138> Only the 3rd option is new in that PR.
14:54:13  <Wolf01> I've *never* noticed it :P
14:54:32  <peter1138> It's massive in those screenshots due to the airport.
14:54:32  <LordAro> sounds like the sort of thing that should be removed
14:54:44  <peter1138> So should we just drop it and use the new method?
14:54:47  <peter1138> Or!
14:55:10  <peter1138> Use the new method but do it with fixed sized or variable sized catchment.
14:55:42  <Wolf01> I'm fine with default as default and "realistic"/"work as expected" as an option to not break old saves... but who plays old saves anyway?
14:56:12  <peter1138> the default is modified catchment, except for really old saves where it'd be fixed.
14:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have different than "default" for old savegames
14:58:35  <peter1138> Yea
14:58:51  <peter1138> Anyway, it doesn't break old saves, just improves them ;)
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14:59:23  <peter1138> Also that station highlight needs to be in the game at some point :D
15:00:23  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: any update on Steam btw?
15:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yes...
15:01:24  <Eddi|zuHause> now can anyone tell me how i get out of this cave?
15:01:35  <LordAro> dig straight up
15:01:45  <Eddi|zuHause> any turn i make, i drop into a hole that is even deeper than the one i fell down before
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15:03:46  <Wolf01> What are you, lost in minecraft?
15:03:48  *** TTDDiscordBot has joined #openttd
15:04:26  <Wolf01> Ok, got to go, bbl
15:07:06  *** Pikka has quit IRC
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15:08:18  <peter1138> Whose bot is this and is i going to keep pissing me off?
15:08:28  <peter1138> *it
15:08:34  <pnda> It's my bot, and until I have it fixed it will piss you off
15:09:15  <peter1138> well fuck about with it in another fucking channel
15:10:15  <pnda> what channel do you recommend
15:10:22  <pnda> and sorry
15:10:23  <peter1138> not this one
15:10:28  <peter1138> you can make your own for testing
15:10:39  <peter1138> that's the beauty of irc
15:10:40  <peter1138> it's not shit
15:14:51  <planetmaker> TrueBrain, not really so far. I need orudge to register an account which is not a personal one
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15:15:57  <planetmaker> outside US you can only register personal ones. Otherwise you need some US-legal entity
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15:16:13  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: we already went over that, not? :)
15:16:34  <pnda> peter1138, I'm joining another irc channel. It won't send any messages anymore
15:16:39  <planetmaker> yep. But... no follow-up from orudge. But I didn't nudge him so far either
15:16:56  <TrueBrain> best to just email orudge; often I just copy/paste the IRC with the context :P
15:17:02  <TrueBrain> he reacts very fast on emails :)
15:17:16  <TrueBrain> pretty sure he doesnt always keep up with IRC :D
15:17:38  <planetmaker> yeah... but I'm all weekdays currently away from home... so I wouldn't have had time to do anything nor could have given time to talk things through
15:17:46  <planetmaker> will be better in a week or so
15:17:56  <TrueBrain> no worries; was just wondering how it was going :)
15:18:02  <TrueBrain> would be interesting to publish on Steam :)
15:24:04  <andythenorth> oof HST would need special pax coaches :P
15:24:09  <andythenorth> for $reasons
15:24:10  <andythenorth> meh
15:24:28  <peter1138> https://www.reddit.com/r/Minecraft/comments/ar82rx/capsule_hotel_in_a_mesa_biome/
15:24:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
15:24:42  <peter1138> andythenorth, that's what livery overrides are for
15:24:48  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you should write something about NRT in the above post :P
15:24:53  <andythenorth> speed issues too
15:25:15  <andythenorth> o_O monthly deve posts
15:25:28  <peter1138> wagons with livery overrides have no wagon speed limit.
15:25:49  <andythenorth> witchcraft
15:26:01  <andythenorth> but but but we have plenty of IDs no? :P
15:26:33  <peter1138> Off, 1.62ms to 38ms in wentbourne save.
15:26:51  <LordAro> nice
15:27:05  <andythenorth> I'll miss the 'zzzz'
15:27:26  <peter1138> Who'd've thought better catchment would be so bad :p
15:28:58  <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> What are you, lost in minecraft? <-- no, in astroneer
15:32:43  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i've been looking at that, is it any good?
15:33:04  <peter1138> I haven't got anywhere in it yet.
15:33:06  <peter1138> Too busy coding.
15:37:47  <planetmaker> andythenorth, these dev posts are also for you to edit ;)
15:37:58  <andythenorth> yes
15:38:12  <andythenorth> I am about to nap though :P
15:38:18  <andythenorth> involuntary
15:38:21  <planetmaker> zzzZZZzzz
15:38:37  <planetmaker> better do it volunatrily
15:42:12  <LordAro> hmm, 3 pages of PRs
15:42:53  <LordAro> peter1138: mild #7003 poke
15:44:47  <peter1138> urgh
15:51:26  <peter1138> Oh I remember, it doesn't use the (Un)ScaleBy stuff...
15:51:57  <Samu> testing my v8
15:52:09  <peter1138> There's no reason it wouldn't work exactly the same as for gui zoom, just a different var.
15:52:42  <Samu> if I detect no problems till the end of the day, I guess I'm uploading it to bananas
15:53:11  <Samu> boring changelog is also done
15:53:46  <peter1138> I think it's a conceptual issue. He sees it as zooming in. GUI zoom is treated as zooming out, but we default to zoomed out.
15:54:11  <peter1138> I think it should either use the same UnScale stuff, or not use ZOOM_LVL_MIN etc
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15:58:12  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: it's neat, not sure it got any long-term replayability as my creativity in those directions is rather low. also my performance issues probably holding me back here
16:01:48  <LordAro> peter1138: can you write that? :>
16:02:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7003: Feature #6918: Add option to adjust font size separately from GUI size. https://git.io/fh5lZ
16:02:13  <peter1138> hah, was writing it :p
16:04:28  <Samu> will my spectator patch request be accepted?
16:04:50  <Samu> even if it is, there's still only 14 AIs automatically starting :|
16:08:23  <peter1138>  ** [nielsmh](/nielsmh) ** requested changes [ 2 days ago ]
16:08:25  <peter1138> So,er...
16:08:27  <peter1138> Did you?
16:08:36  <Samu> oh, 2 days ago?
16:08:40  <Samu> let me see
16:09:56  <Samu> 2 days ago where?
16:10:33  <Samu> nielsmh didn't even talk here
16:10:39  <Samu> it's all glx22
16:12:49  <Samu> ah, my other spectator patch
16:13:01  <Samu> meh, I don't care much about that one
16:14:03  <Samu> was convinced it was a qick fix
16:14:11  <Samu> but since it wasn't, I don't care anymore
16:16:20  <glx> spectator color is a quick fix, but must be done the right way :)
16:17:50  <planetmaker> that's... disappointing. Opening many PR. But not caring...?
16:18:43  <Samu> ok, I close
16:20:25  <planetmaker> the disappointing part in that is the time wasted for no avail...
16:20:38  <planetmaker> yours. and that of reviewers, too
16:21:26  <Samu> ok, I leave it open
16:22:23  <Samu> i might as well take a look at it
16:22:34  <Samu> it just bores me to edit 50 files again
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16:23:25  <glx> updating the strings is very easy :)
16:26:21  <Samu> uncolored
16:26:27  <Samu> and not spectator
16:26:31  <Samu> but global goals
16:26:42  <Samu> would also require a different string
16:26:47  <Samu> oh gosh :|
16:29:15  <Samu> STR_NETWORK_TOOLBAR_LIST_SPECTATOR
16:29:30  <Samu> this isn't displayed in single player
16:29:38  <Samu> there goes the easy fix
16:31:36  <peter1138> Often, s/easy/wrong/
16:33:36  <glx> and stories may need another string too
16:34:06  <peter1138> At least when you are just adding one string you don't need to edit 50 files again :p
16:34:11  <peter1138> (Or two strings)
16:35:15  <Samu> why does my company has a lock in front of its name?
16:35:24  <glx> password protected
16:35:31  <Samu> in single player?
16:35:33  <Samu> :(
16:35:45  <glx> clean master ?
16:36:00  <Samu> no, on my white-spectator branch
16:36:05  <peter1138> Lock is after the name.
16:37:22  <Samu> after the name isn't the same as in front of ?
16:37:47  <glx> in front is before
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16:44:24  <Samu> Global Goals
16:44:28  <Samu> Global Story Book
16:44:30  <Samu> ok.
16:53:17  <Samu> falling back to 3-way merge?
16:53:41  <Samu> lang files are annoying me already
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17:01:46  <peter1138> So should I get rid of the modified catchment setting?
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17:04:58  <LordAro> peter1138: i'd suggest yes
17:05:36  <J0anJosep> Hi
17:05:55  <J0anJosep> peter1138: I would also suggest yes
17:06:15  <peter1138> SPIES!
17:06:35  <Samu> I don't know how to fix this
17:06:43  <Eddi|zuHause> spice!
17:06:55  <peter1138> Even for the old "everything is radius 4" vs modified's different radius depending on type?
17:06:57  <Samu> it's a network setting, but it's not
17:07:15  <Eddi|zuHause> is anyone even using that?
17:07:16  <Samu> requires more changes than a simple rename
17:07:25  <glx> I think you're overthinking again
17:08:09  <Eddi|zuHause> we got rid of the "stations can be only rectangular" setting, right?
17:08:11  <J0anJosep> Today I saw the DEV post of march. Can I be whitelisted as a contributor? In the future I may post some things I do there.
17:09:16  <planetmaker> J0anJosep, what's your github account?
17:09:16  <Samu> it's encapsulated into a #ifdef ENABLE_NETWORK
17:09:27  <glx> and ?
17:09:30  <J0anJosep> peter1138: I think the easier to explain how catchment works, the better. So IMO "everything radius 4" may be dropped off.
17:09:48  <J0anJosep> planetmaker: J0anJosep
17:09:54  <glx> you just need to check the widget
17:10:25  <planetmaker> ok. And now I have to find where I add people as contributor :)
17:10:44  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: make sure you look in the website project ;)
17:10:46  <J0anJosep> planetmaker: Ask TrueBrain?
17:10:54  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: TrueBrain sent me some kind of invite earlier
17:11:18  <planetmaker> I found it, I think
17:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i got a mail where i had to click on
17:11:58  <planetmaker> hm
17:12:42  <planetmaker> yep
17:13:09  <planetmaker> I wonder whether github sends them automatically
17:13:27  <planetmaker> J0anJosep, can you check with your github account?
17:13:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i assume so
17:13:29  <Samu> i rather fix everything in 1 go on my start_as_spectator patch
17:14:09  <Samu> it's touching the same kind of code
17:15:19  <J0anJosep> planetmaker: Yep. Thanks!
17:16:35  <planetmaker> np, you're welcom
17:16:39  <planetmaker> +e
17:21:33  <Samu> oh wow, it's already fixed on my patch
17:21:48  <Samu> only need new string names
17:22:04  <Samu> it's still using Spectator
17:23:21  <Samu> where in english.txt would I place these strings?
17:23:27  <Samu> Global Goals
17:23:32  <Samu> Global Story Book
17:26:08  <peter1138> Near other strings that mention them.
17:26:34  <glx> in my quick test I put them line 2089
17:27:52  <glx> and I also added STR_NETWORK_COMPANY_LIST_CLIENT_LIST_CAPTION to copy the old STR_NETWORK_COMPANY_LIST_CLIENT_LIST
17:27:59  <peter1138> Ok, my idea of storing nearby stations within industry and towns improves performance A LOT.
17:28:28  <peter1138> In fact it improves it so much, it's faster than unpatched.
17:28:32  <Samu> BUT IT'S NOT A NETWORK SETTING
17:28:33  <Samu> oops
17:28:41  <Samu> caps because I was writing a string name
17:29:04  <planetmaker> seems we're caching more and more info :)
17:32:02  <peter1138> 38ms down to 1ms *per tick* is worth it.
17:32:19  <glx> not a bad improvement
17:32:20  <peter1138> I just need to ensure the nearby list is kept update to date.
17:32:30  <peter1138> glx, that's faster than master :)
17:33:05  <andythenorth> will it work with the (otherwise unrelated) round-robin cargo to industries?
17:37:31  <peter1138> Should not affect it.
17:37:41  <peter1138> Might make that simpler though.
17:38:18  <peter1138> What other tile classes produce cargo? Industry & houses.
17:38:20  <glx> Samu: https://github.com/glx22/OpenTTD/commits/company_dropdown
17:38:22  <peter1138> I think objects may do as well.
17:38:25  <glx> something like that
17:38:55  <glx> only checked compilation, not started
17:39:32  <peter1138> Are newobjects used much? It's not something I ever use.
17:40:11  <peter1138> Oh!
17:40:13  <Alberth> nostky the entire screenshot forum
17:40:15  <peter1138> It's only the HQ.
17:40:26  <peter1138> Okay, there can only be 15 of those on the map.
17:40:26  <Alberth> *mostly
17:40:42  <peter1138> I suspect it's not worth bothering with.
17:40:44  <Samu> glx, but you have it inside network code
17:40:51  <glx> and ?
17:40:52  <Samu> it won't be displayed in single player
17:41:01  <glx> of course it won't
17:41:08  <Samu> why not?
17:41:11  <peter1138> Yeah, normal objects don't create/consume cargo, only the HQ. Phew.
17:41:20  <glx> was it displayed before ?
17:41:26  <Samu> no, but should b
17:41:43  <glx> that's easily fixable
17:42:13  <Samu> eh... those ifdef network don't make it so easy
17:42:34  <peter1138> Hmm, before saying it's faster, I should check it even works, lol
17:54:00  <andythenorth> is it set in stone that industries build around N tile?
17:54:16  <peter1138> What does that mean?
17:54:17  <andythenorth> some types would be much easier to player build if the start tile was arbitrary
17:54:28  <andythenorth> ports, for example, are a PITA
17:55:26  <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1216215#p1216215
17:56:21  <andythenorth> industry can only be placed using the tile at (0,0) in the layout
17:56:42  <peter1138> Okay, it's not quite faster than before, but still < 2ms
17:56:53  <peter1138> I messed up and nothing got a nearby tile :p
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18:00:46  <Alberth> andythenorth:  should be possible to assume a tile you clicked is any tile in the industry, ie try them all
18:01:10  <andythenorth> I wondered
18:01:14  <andythenorth> dunno about performance of that
18:01:19  <Alberth> not sure if that needs refindement, eg "near" the middle or so
18:04:20  <Alberth> near the north would be most compatible, but that's somewhat still horrible
18:05:04  <andythenorth> maybe a random walk of all tiles in the layout?
18:05:16  <andythenorth> or a circular search?
18:06:45  <Alberth> repeatable is likely better, so eg a picture works
18:07:39  <glx> Samu: updated
18:07:53  <Alberth> my intuituiton says circularly from the center
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18:08:15  <peter1138> Funny how the setting is "Allow more realistically sized..."
18:08:19  <peter1138> "Allow"... wtf
18:08:32  <Alberth> but breaks all "build at this tile" pictures
18:09:29  <glx> string names may not be the best
18:09:48  <glx> but they match the existing ones
18:10:12  <peter1138> Right, I tweaked this non-rect stuff so that it's always enabled.
18:10:36  <peter1138> And modified_catchment is not touched, it affects catchment as you'd expect.
18:10:58  <peter1138> World ticks still fine :D
18:12:08  <peter1138> Yeah, so that FOR_ALL_STATIONS was the killer, not the unordered_set
18:14:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator https://git.io/fhSk4
18:15:35  <peter1138> Samu, pretty sure that last commit should be a separate PR. It affects master, doesn't it?
18:16:42  <Samu> how?
18:17:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick closed pull request #7169: Fix: Spectator color https://git.io/fhS2c
18:18:06  <peter1138> ^...
18:18:12  <peter1138> That one you just closed lol
18:18:26  <Samu> I fixed in the other
18:18:47  <peter1138> But you've put separate things in 1 PR again.
18:18:51  <Samu> besides, if it's to be removed, it's pointless to have it open
18:18:57  <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...glx22:company_dropdown?diff=unified&expand=1
18:19:03  <glx> I think I'll just PR then
18:19:36  <peter1138> :)
18:19:40  <Samu> meh, i never understand how you guys work
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18:19:56  <peter1138> You already had a PR open to fix the issue.
18:20:07  <peter1138> But you went and fixed it in an unrelated PR.
18:20:19  <peter1138> What do you not understand about that?
18:20:22  <Wolf01> <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> What are you, lost in minecraft? <-- no, in astroneer <- then follow the oxygen line :P
18:20:30  <Samu> I ended up removing the string
18:20:36  <peter1138> Yes, so?
18:20:45  <Samu> there was no point leaving it open anymore
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18:21:12  <Samu> just use the other pr
18:21:16  <Samu> it does the job
18:21:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7236: Fix: company dropdown using wrong colours, and add global goals and story book to single player https://git.io/fh54i
18:21:24  <peter1138> But that other PR includes stuff about starting as spectator.
18:21:29  <Samu> yes
18:21:39  <peter1138> That's a lot of changes to review when we simply wanted a text change for now.
18:21:52  <peter1138> This is the point of 1 (logical) change per PR.
18:22:02  <peter1138> glx, thanks
18:22:42  <Samu> it would end up requiring the removal of the string... I don't get it
18:22:54  <Samu> just seems pointless to have 2 PR's doing the same thing
18:23:12  <peter1138> The PR you put it in doesn't need to contain it!
18:24:32  <glx> even if you notice wrong stuff while doing a PR doesn't mean you should fix it in the PR
18:25:19  <glx> and btw there was other incorrect strings, as nielsm pointed out in the other PR
18:25:40  <Samu> those are special ones
18:25:45  <Samu> but ok
18:26:04  <glx> I don't see how they are special
18:26:35  <glx> they are just shown in network games but should match the other strings in dropdown
18:27:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7236: Fix: company dropdown using wrong colours, and add global goals and story book to single player https://git.io/fh54d
18:30:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick reopened pull request #7169: Fix: Spectator color https://git.io/fhS2c
18:30:38  <peter1138> I think it's kinda moot now.
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18:31:40  <Samu> lucky that github fake deletes stuff
18:31:53  <peter1138> Close doesn't even mean delete.
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18:32:07  <Samu> i deleted branch
18:32:10  <peter1138> Ah, ok.
18:32:14  <glx> and reopening it was not needed
18:32:15  <Samu> but it's just fake
18:32:18  <pnda> Uhh. sorry for those messages from my DiscordIRC bot. It's working now, had a minor crash. Won't happen again
18:33:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #7237: Small codechanges (remove an assert and unify addition/removal of station tiles) https://git.io/fh54N
18:35:14  <Samu> well, glx is at it, apparently
18:35:16  <Samu> closing
18:35:50  <glx> yes it was really easy
18:35:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick closed pull request #7169: Fix: Spectator color https://git.io/fhS2c
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18:36:12  <glx> with the power of regexp :)
18:36:18  <Samu> probably gonna conflict with my pr
18:36:24  <Samu> typical
18:36:58  <Samu> awaiting merge
18:37:32  <glx> even if MSVC forced me to use \r?\n instead of $
18:39:45  <glx> (once merged it will add another bunch of warnings ;) )
18:41:15  <glx> hmm or maybe not as there are definitive string removal
18:46:07  <glx> J0anJosep: should have been 2 PRs I think
18:46:44  <glx> because both commits are totally unrelated
18:47:38  <pnda> So most of you have probably noticed my "DiscordIRC" Bot. It's currently just sending all messages sent here onto a discord server. My question is to make this 2-way, so messages from the discord server also come to here.
18:48:13  <pnda> Is that allowed?
18:49:13  <peter1138> Personally I would ban the fuck out of it.
18:49:56  <glx> if people want to follow the discussion they should just come to IRC
18:50:10  <peter1138> +1
18:50:31  <pnda> And how many people still use IRC, and how many people use Discord?
18:50:49  <glx> discord is using IRC internally ;)
18:51:00  <glx> and special servers
18:51:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #58: Monthly Dev Post of March 2019 https://git.io/fh5n2
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18:51:22  <peter1138> Well, there's about 100 people here.
18:51:23  <glx> but many people are still using IRC
18:51:31  *** J0anJosep has joined #openttd
18:51:32  <peter1138> And I have no idea about discord because I have no intention of ever using it.
18:52:45  <pnda> You don't. And as you said you won't. Therefore you could still continue using IRC, and still be connected to people on another platform
18:52:53  <glx> even for twitch I sometimes use IRC for the chat
18:53:01  <pnda> And if I remember correctly it's nearly 1600 people on the openttd discord
18:53:02  <peter1138> There's no need to be connected to people on another platform.
18:53:26  <pnda> Why would that be?
18:53:37  <peter1138> Why would I want to follow the random conversations of 1600 people?
18:53:47  <peter1138> It's hard enough following Samu.
18:54:20  <pnda> I followed the conversation of you guys the last few minutes. And also on the openttd discord, it's not that active, so it wouldn't change that much.
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18:54:30  <pnda> Oh and I also want to mention that this was planetmakers idea
18:54:32  <peter1138> We also have tt-forums for our message boards.
18:54:41  <peter1138> Reddit can piss off.
18:54:59  <TrueBrain> I guess peter1138 is having an off day; a bit less rude won't hurt anyone
18:55:20  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I hope I understood your comment :D I did guess a bit to what context you were looking for :)
18:55:22  <peter1138> I just hate this pervasive LETS ALL USE THIS PROPRIETORY REINVENTING THE WHEEL SHIT
18:55:25  <peter1138> oops, caps :(
18:55:40  <TrueBrain> just because YOU hate something, doesn't mean you have to take it out on those that DO like it :)
18:55:45  <TrueBrain> be civil :)
18:55:51  <peter1138> I'm not?
18:56:07  <pnda> And just like on the OpenTTD Discord, the voting if the bot is actually coming or not, is still being voted
18:56:20  <pnda> Because democracy > one guys opinion
18:56:32  <TrueBrain> the bots, are coming .. hmm .. now I have 30 seconds of mars in my head .. tnx :P
18:57:13  <peter1138> Yeah, that worked out well for the UK.
18:57:16  <peter1138> lol brexit lol
18:57:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7237: Small codechanges (remove an assert and unify addition/removal of station tiles) https://git.io/fh5BW
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18:57:51  <TrueBrain> ugh, don't start about Brexit :(
18:57:52  *** J0anJosep has joined #openttd
18:58:26  <pnda> Brexit is just stupid. And it's stupid how a lot of people didn't even vote
18:58:27  <m3henry> This is a family friendly channel
18:58:32  <TrueBrain> :D
18:58:38  <TrueBrain> lol @ m3henry :)
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18:59:08  <LordAro> now that should definitely be bannable
18:59:29  <pnda> I'm sure planetmaker will allow the 2-way discord-irc system of my bot. Just don't know about the other admins here
18:59:51  <peter1138> 1-way is probably fine.
19:00:07  <peter1138> But 2-way will be muted.
19:00:23  <LordAro> in my experience of bridge-bots, they tend to generate a lot of noise
19:00:28  <peter1138> Very noisy.
19:00:34  <LordAro> and if they don't, they're probably not worth having
19:01:03  <peter1138> Hope nobody is planning on flying with FlyBMI.
19:01:25  <m3henry> Obvious answer: Make OTTD an IRC client itself! xD
19:01:33  <peter1138> OTTD has a chat system.
19:01:39  <pnda> That might be the case. Though from what I see on a daily basis there is not much activity on the discord. And I wouldn't even add the help, bot-spam, multiplayer and off-topic channels to the bot, so most messages wouldn't land here.
19:01:41  <m3henry> But is it IRC?
19:01:47  <peter1138> And some servers even link it in their IRC channels.
19:01:55  <peter1138> But they wouldn't link it in here, because that'd be dumb.
19:02:01  <pnda> There was a discord bot which connected the OpenTTD chat system with discord.
19:02:25  <m3henry> Come to think of it
19:02:40  <m3henry> What fundamental differences are there between OTTD's chat system and IRC?
19:02:43  <peter1138> openttdcoop was all IRC linked.
19:02:55  <peter1138> m3henry, fundamentally it's totally different.
19:03:00  <peter1138> Of course, they still let you chat.
19:03:19  *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC
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19:04:27  <m3henry> Not the protocol, but the use-case?
19:04:37  *** DiscordIRC has joined #openttd
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19:09:50  <milek7> bridge bots poorly integrate with irc
19:09:58  <milek7> wrong sender nicks, independent kick/ban system
19:10:56  <pnda> Though from the last hour of testing this bridge bot on this channel there has been no problems at all.
19:12:19  <pnda> Example: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/442748131898032138/546408460515016744/unknown.png
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19:13:21  <Samu> spies
19:13:39  <LordAro> pnda: see, that's very noisy to me - why on earth would discord users care about the join/parts of users they can't interact with?
19:14:18  <pnda> They could interact with them, if there is a 2-way system
19:15:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #59: Fix: mark openttd-useful as deprecated, and tell what to do instead https://git.io/fh5BV
19:18:34  <Samu> gonna test 7204 done differently
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19:21:34  <milek7> pnda: and it looks bad
19:21:38  <milek7> why everything is under "DiscordIRC bot" and not under real usernames?
19:21:51  <J0anJosep> glx: I'll make two separate PRs.
19:21:51  <TrueBrain> Discord no longer allows that, as people were abusing it :D
19:21:55  <TrueBrain> it was fun when that was possible :)
19:21:56  <pnda> you'd have to create a bot for every single user.
19:22:09  <LordAro> you can do that with slack, oddly
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19:22:26  <supermop_Home> ottd slack time?
19:22:29  <TrueBrain> guess you can register a new bot for every new user that pops up :)
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19:22:38  <TrueBrain> OpenTTD has a Slack. Just I am all alone in there :P
19:22:42  <TrueBrain> SO RONELY
19:22:46  <supermop_Home> ooh ill join
19:22:51  <TrueBrain> yippie, I have friends!
19:22:55  <TrueBrain> wait .. where is my Slack client ..
19:23:10  <pnda> @TrueBrain, that sadly doesn't work. You have a maximum of 50 bots per user (I am already using 4) and also there is no automation for doing it.
19:23:19  <TrueBrain> I know :(
19:23:23  <Samu> ---------------------------
19:23:23  <Samu> Error!
19:23:23  <Samu> ---------------------------
19:23:23  <Samu> failed loading savegame: Order index 64000 out of range (64000)
19:23:23  <Samu> ---------------------------
19:23:24  <Samu> OK
19:23:26  <Samu> ---------------------------
19:23:28  <Samu> why
19:23:31  <TrueBrain> they really went ballistic on people trying to do that :P
19:23:45  <pnda> I thought that what Samu just posted was a console error in my bot....lol
19:24:15  <Samu> savegame is not backwards compatible?
19:24:20  <supermop_Home> TrueBrain whats the slack for openttd
19:24:28  <TrueBrain> 'OpenTTD'
19:24:30  <TrueBrain> surprising :P
19:24:30  <LordAro> supermop_Home: don't encourage him
19:24:42  <TrueBrain> LordAro: it is already done! (well, it has been for months)
19:24:42  <pnda> are you really so bound to IRC?
19:24:58  <milek7> https://xkcd.com/1782/
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19:25:01  <supermop_Home> LordAro i already am the slack evangelist at my current and two prior jobs
19:25:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #7237: Small codechanges (remove an assert and unify addition/removal of station tiles) https://git.io/fh54N
19:25:05  <TrueBrain> supermop_Home: I just claimed it as placeholder ;)
19:25:23  <TrueBrain> milek7: the only correct answer, indeed :)
19:25:47  <TrueBrain> which reminds me, read again today that someone BOUGHT OpenTTD on Windows Store
19:25:56  <TrueBrain> that 2 euro variant still pops up on top
19:26:00  <TrueBrain> annoys the freak out of me
19:26:09  <TrueBrain> it is also on there for free .. but .. it is not the first hit
19:26:19  <LordAro> milek7: pretty much me, yes
19:26:21  <TrueBrain> can we downvote it or something?
19:26:35  <LordAro> i like being able to use the same connection on every single system i use
19:26:43  <LordAro> i.e. all i need is an ssh client
19:27:08  <LordAro> and i don't need to download some bloated PoS electron thing
19:27:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #7237: Codechange: Move some common code after adding/removing tiles to a station to its own function. https://git.io/fh54N
19:29:27  <Samu> your variant is bugged
19:29:38  <Samu> there is coal going to fishing grounds station
19:29:59  <TrueBrain> why is that a bug?
19:30:17  <LordAro> use your words, Samu
19:30:24  <LordAro> our crystal balls are all broken
19:30:35  <supermop_Home> slack is generally good for architecture / design firms where sharing and commenting on drawings is easy and most people are probably too afraid to use something like irc
19:30:37  <Samu> it should not serve the other idnustries
19:30:42  <Samu> only self
19:30:47  <TrueBrain> LordAro: Welcome to the guessing game! Today, we have ... :D
19:30:51  <Samu> peter1138,
19:31:15  <Samu> sorry, talking about https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7234
19:31:31  <TrueBrain> context! Whoho!
19:32:15  <Samu> oops, i thought I had uploaded a savegame on my topic
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19:33:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7204: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations. https://git.io/fh5B9
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19:37:33  <Samu> why is it a broken savegame on peter1138 variant?
19:37:37  <Samu> bah
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19:38:19  <TrueBrain> invasion? :D
19:38:22  <milek7> openttd is available as UWP?
19:38:24  *** DiscordIRC3 has joined #openttd
19:38:39  <TrueBrain> milek7: I believe it is not, but orudge knows details :)
19:39:09  <milek7> so store now allows win32 apps?
19:39:15  <pnda> It is available in the windows store. But I don't think it's UWP
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19:40:01  <Wolf01> It's bridged, win32 on a wrapper just to be distributed via store
19:40:17  <pnda> wait why is there a DiscordIRC4 which joined..uhhh
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19:40:46  <LordAro> pnda: the part/join noise is starting to get annoying...
19:41:03  <pnda> Well sorry....Don't know what just happened
19:41:06  <TrueBrain> LordAro: more or less than for example thedarkb-T60 doing this all day? :)
19:41:12  <pnda> yeah ^
19:41:19  <LordAro> true
19:41:28  <LordAro> but that's not 5 users all at once
19:41:36  <TrueBrain> we all make mistakes while creating bots :)
19:41:42  <TrueBrain> it is not like DorpsGek_II never had that issue :D
19:41:42  <pnda> Though I do not understand why it created 5
19:41:57  <LordAro> as peter said earlier, bot testing should be done elsewhere
19:42:08  <pnda> I did
19:42:19  <pnda> I created a room, and it joined and left like 100 times
19:42:27  <LordAro> good :)
19:42:51  <pnda> And the testing is not done currently. I  just pushed something for a few new listeners, don't know why that happened
19:43:14  <TrueBrain> threads being threads? :)
19:43:42  <pnda> Oh I am stupid....I moved the bot creating thing under the function when a message is sent here.....stupid me
19:44:00  <TrueBrain> haha, that is a nice DoS :D
19:44:42  <Wolf01> Nice :P
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19:51:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #7238: Codechange: Remove assert when trying to intersect two tile areas and… https://git.io/fh5RL
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19:58:39  <TrueBrain> LordAro: any chance you can look at this: https://github.com/OpenTTD/website/pull/59 ?
20:00:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #59: Fix: mark openttd-useful as deprecated, and tell what to do instead https://git.io/fh5Rr
20:00:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #59: Fix: mark openttd-useful as deprecated, and tell what to do instead https://git.io/fh5BV
20:00:33  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
20:00:36  <LordAro> yes :)
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20:09:37  <Samu> I don't understand this link
20:10:45  <DorpsGek> I thnk add ssues too
20:11:05  <glx> oh nice my script eats letters
20:11:10  <peter1138> Hi
20:11:15  <peter1138> Back from dinnering.
20:12:33  <peter1138> So...
20:13:30  <peter1138> Shall I bother trying to decipher what Samu said?
20:14:47  <Samu> you have coal waiting on fishing ground station
20:15:35  <peter1138> I can't open your savegame.
20:15:52  <Samu> works only for mine
20:16:00  <peter1138> Ok, so the screenshots are for yours too?
20:16:05  <Samu> yes
20:16:37  <glx> how can you be sure it's not something in your changes then ?
20:16:38  <Samu> type set selectgoods off
20:16:54  <Samu> cargo will appear on the stations without the need of vehicels
20:17:06  <Samu> if it is allowed to appear, that is
20:17:20  <glx> ah that's a useful detail :)
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20:21:06  <Samu> https://imgur.com/xU5n8M3 this is on peter1138 variant
20:22:04  <peter1138> q
20:22:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #7239: Codechange: Put some order on VehicleEnter_Track in rail_cmd. https://git.io/fh50T
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20:49:46  <peter1138> Ok, will be fixed soon.
20:51:57  <peter1138> Ok, tested with HQ as well.
20:52:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7239: Codechange: Put some order on VehicleEnter_Track in rail_cmd. https://git.io/fh50P
20:52:51  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker merged pull request #7239: Codechange: Put some order on VehicleEnter_Track in rail_cmd. https://git.io/fh50T
20:53:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7234: Feature: Game setting to define how industries with neutral stations accept and supply cargo from/to surrounding stations. https://git.io/fh5qg
20:53:34  <peter1138> Thanks Samu.
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20:54:40  <planetmaker> hm, it didn't use my change of commit message
20:55:22  <planetmaker> or did it?
20:55:26  <planetmaker> I'm confused :D
20:55:48  <TrueBrain> guess you fell for the: PR title != commit message? :D
20:55:51  <TrueBrain> (as I did a few times already)
20:56:18  <peter1138> You need to do Squash & Merge to set the commit message.
20:56:41  <peter1138> Though... looks like you did that.
20:57:10  <planetmaker> yeah... difference PR title to commit message
20:57:14  <planetmaker> ok :)
20:58:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7230: Fix #7226: No ship track due to "forbid 90 deg turns"-> Do not call pathfinders. https://git.io/fh50D
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20:58:59  <peter1138> #7234 is now officially bug free... (right until the next bug is found)
21:03:34  * peter1138 awaits the next cryptic message from Samu.
21:05:23  <peter1138> Weird, my custom git pr command stopped working :/
21:06:56  <J0anJosep> planetmaker: Sorry for the commit message issue. On master, it is reworded the way you wanted.
21:10:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7236: Fix: company dropdown using wrong colours, and add global goals and story book to single player https://git.io/fh50p
21:11:05  <peter1138> Hrmm, right, so. nearby station list is correct when station is modified.
21:11:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep opened pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages. https://git.io/fh5Ee
21:11:51  <peter1138> Need to handle industry creation. Removal doesn't matter.
21:12:01  <peter1138> And then town growth/shrinkage.
21:12:59  <peter1138> Ooh, magic hotkey :D
21:13:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages. https://git.io/fh5EU
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21:17:08  <peter1138> Ah, new industry already calls the appropriate stuff.
21:17:11  <peter1138> So just town growth.
21:17:11  <planetmaker> J0anJosep, no need to apologize. It's fine... more me wondering how github works. And ... it was really just a tiny preference in words on my part, nothing to worry about either way :)
21:17:56  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages. https://git.io/fh5Et
21:19:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages. https://git.io/fh5Em
21:19:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7236: Fix: company dropdown using wrong colours, and add global goals and story book to single player https://git.io/fh54i
21:19:32  <pnda> What's going on with the openttd.org website? A lot of people are reporting they can't access it
21:20:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages. https://git.io/fh5EO
21:20:25  <LordAro> pnda: going to need a bit more than "can't access it"
21:20:28  <LordAro> works for me
21:20:33  <glx> fails for me
21:20:41  <LordAro> ooh
21:20:44  <Samu> it works!
21:20:53  <glx> secured connection failure
21:21:02  <Samu> 7234 works! now
21:21:15  <LordAro> glx: as in, https, or..?
21:21:17  <peter1138> Samu, thanks for your, er... report.
21:21:29  <peter1138> Yeah, website is not working :/
21:21:35  <glx> https fails yes
21:21:40  <peter1138> TLS fails.
21:21:44  <milek7> works for me
21:21:52  <glx> and IPv6 here
21:22:04  <pnda> It works for me. Just a guy turned up on discord and was like "I can't connect"
21:22:06  <peter1138> Yeah, IPv4 works.
21:22:09  <peter1138> IPv6 does not.
21:22:26  <glx> ok TrueBrain IPv6 is broken on website
21:23:14  <LordAro> confirmed
21:23:15  <LordAro> curl: (35) Unknown SSL protocol error in connection to www.openttd.org:443
21:25:56  <glx> oh github added a dangerous option near delete branch after merged PR
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21:29:09  <peter1138> Revert?
21:29:17  <peter1138> Or something else.
21:29:29  <glx> delete fork
21:29:37  <peter1138> Oh! o_O
21:31:03  <LordAro> as best as i can tell, ipv6 isn't offering any (valid?) TLS ciphers
21:31:18  <glx> but it worked
21:31:34  <glx> we even checked it
21:31:47  <LordAro> mm, something's changed
21:31:54  <LordAro> might be digitalocean has broken something
21:31:55  <peter1138> Probably means connected to a loadbalancer but the loadbalancer can't connect to a backend.
21:32:25  <glx> I think there was a proxy for IPv6
21:32:52  <LordAro> yeah, because digitalocean doesn't support it properly, or something
21:33:04  <LordAro> i'm not sure if TB released any of that bit
21:33:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages. https://git.io/fh5Ee
21:34:05  <planetmaker> there is an ipv6 repo in our OpenTTD github repos
21:34:25  <planetmaker> which basically is the proxy for ipv6
21:34:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages. https://git.io/fh5ER
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21:35:27  <peter1138> Hmm, two churches, or is it two villages next to each other...
21:36:10  <peter1138> Oh... three churches!
21:37:22  <TrueBrain> glx: that would explain the issues I have been reading all day, which I could not pinpoint
21:37:50  <TrueBrain> owh, I know what happened .. hmm ..
21:40:28  <Eddi|zuHause> music anyone? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqMs9WsJg2k
21:40:53  <milek7> anyway, i thought that browsers were using 'happy eyeballs' hack
21:41:24  <Eddi|zuHause> what?
21:41:28  <milek7> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8305
21:41:57  <milek7> connecting to both v4 and v6, so nobody sees that v6 is broken
21:42:12  <glx> no, they usually try IPv6 and fallback to IPv4 if no replies
21:42:15  <peter1138> Probably not in the case of a successful tcp connection but failed higher level.
21:42:31  <glx> but we got reply
21:43:39  <Eddi|zuHause> won't that put more stress on the server side, if multiple servers get the same request and don't know it has already been established elsewhere?
21:44:33  <TrueBrain> glx: how about now?
21:44:46  <glx> works now
21:44:57  <glx> and IPv6 :)
21:45:06  <TrueBrain> cool
21:45:13  <TrueBrain> DO cycles the nodes for a k8s fix
21:45:15  <TrueBrain> which is fine
21:45:18  <TrueBrain> but the nodes got a new internal IP
21:45:25  <TrueBrain> so the IPv6 bypass I have and use no longer worked
21:45:28  <TrueBrain> that is a bit annoying
21:45:29  <TrueBrain> but okay
21:45:31  <planetmaker> would people mind much, if we bridge this IRC channel to the development channel on discord?
21:46:16  <Eddi|zuHause> is that a transparent bridge, or some bot that just repeats everything?
21:46:46  <planetmaker> I guess the latter. Posting here what was said there. And vice versa
21:46:53  <planetmaker> I don't see another way
21:47:03  <planetmaker> as we don't own the IRC server
21:47:28  <peter1138> It would be piss me right off.
21:47:37  <planetmaker> but... why?
21:48:03  <planetmaker> mostly the other channel is silent. And makes it for some people easier to reach us
21:48:50  <peter1138> Prefered way for people to reach us is github.
21:48:59  <planetmaker> so why are we here?
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21:50:14  <m3henry> Discussion is not necessarily the same as contact
21:50:42  <peter1138> This is just us chatting, as we've done for 15 years.
21:51:09  <planetmaker> and nothing would change
21:51:13  <peter1138> What needs to change?
21:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> this channel has been weirdly on-topic lately
21:51:51  <peter1138> The github migration seems to have paid off, we're way more active now.
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21:52:24  <m3henry> Submitting patches was awkward
21:52:41  <LordAro> i have no inherent problems with bridging a quiet discord channel with here
21:52:52  <LordAro> i think it's silly, but if you think it will help things, by all means try it
21:53:01  <Wolf01> Yes, people which make patches can't blame devs anymore like "they are the only ones which can use SVN repo hurr durr"
21:53:09  <planetmaker> it's worth a try, is what I think at least
21:53:20  <LordAro> but if the other side gets busy, i think my opinion will turn against it :)
21:53:32  <peter1138> Just tell them to come here.
21:53:33  <glx> and if it introduce flood we can ban the bot :)
21:53:39  <m3henry> option to mute it?
21:53:40  <peter1138> IRC is not haRd.
21:54:34  <LordAro> peter1138: you and i know this, but apparently people like having persistence
21:54:39  <LordAro> (with no setup on their part)
21:55:07  <peter1138> Persistence is precisely why stuff which needs it should be done on github.
21:55:33  <LordAro> for dev work, for sure
21:55:42  <LordAro> but specifically for their chat programs
21:55:46  <DorpsGek> test
21:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never heard anyone say they use discord because it has persistence
21:56:42  <peter1138> Anyway, we have persistence with whatever irc logging bots are spying on this channel.
21:57:01  <peter1138> mikegrb, *waves*
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21:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure that one died
21:57:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7230: Fix #7226: No ship track due to "forbid 90 deg turns"-> Do not call pathfinders. https://git.io/fh5EQ
21:57:52  <peter1138> https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/openttd/2019/02/16
21:57:55  <peter1138> ^ looks pretty alive to me.
21:59:17  <planetmaker> sp comp's logs. iirc
21:59:29  <pnda> My bot is now running on a "server". Will stay online for quite a while. :D
22:01:00  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, maybe there was an episode inbetween...
22:04:17  *** pnda has quit IRC
22:05:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
22:06:34  <peter1138> Is m3henry's clock wrong? :D
22:06:52  <m3henry> eh?
22:07:00  <peter1138> " M3Henry committed on Sep 25, 2018 "
22:07:10  <m3henry> Oh I see
22:07:19  <m3henry> That is correct
22:07:23  <m3henry> :3
22:07:42  <peter1138> Are you amending commits, or just taking ages to push? :p
22:07:47  <m3henry> Both
22:08:25  <m3henry> I found some time recently to go over the commits that I'd started a few months ago
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22:36:49  <glx> oh even linux build failed this time m3henry
22:38:28  <Samu> how come opf doesn't ignore 90 degs?
22:39:19  <peter1138> What do you mean?
22:39:40  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7230#issuecomment-464390335
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22:40:21  <peter1138> Because the change means it is checked regardless of the pathfinder.
22:43:02  <glx> m3henry: but this time linux and osx fails at the same place, while win32/win64 fails in a platform specific file
22:44:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #6986: Allow the center tile to always get a house when playing with 3x3/Better https://git.io/fh5u4
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22:47:27  <glx> hmm should "waiting on author" considered "stale" ?
22:49:12  <LordAro> possibly
22:49:35  <glx> because the bot added the stale label
22:50:09  <glx> at least the author will get a notification
22:51:21  <LordAro> hmm. i don't think "waiting on author" necessarily implies "stale" - it might only get applied for a few hours or something
22:51:36  <Samu> but opf is now pathfinding wrong
22:51:50  <LordAro> Samu: sounds like another reason to dump OPF
22:51:57  <Samu> not the right way to fix it
22:52:27  <Samu> it is assuming internally that it can do 90 deg turns
22:52:33  <glx> removing it will fix it ;)
22:52:38  <Samu> hmm ok remove
22:53:06  <LordAro> Samu: that's because OPF (being the original one) predates the no 90 degree turn settings
22:53:23  <LordAro> no one ever thought it worthwhile to update it to do otherwise
22:53:34  <LordAro> and i agree
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22:53:48  <LordAro> frankly i don't see much of a reason to keep NPF either
22:54:11  <LordAro> pathfinders *should* only differ in efficency
22:54:43  <LordAro> they're either correct or not, and there's no reason to use anything other than the "best" one (fastest, whatever)
22:55:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the original reason to keep NPF around was in case some odd behaviour in YAPF was detected to have a fallback to compare it to
22:55:54  <peter1138> Yes.
22:58:49  <peter1138> PR: Remove OPF.
22:58:52  <peter1138> PR: Remove NPF.
22:59:01  <peter1138> :D
22:59:12  <glx> and keep only the unreadable PF ?
22:59:20  <peter1138> I can read it.
22:59:35  <peter1138> PR: Using OpenTTD-style code in YAPF.
22:59:52  <LordAro> haha
23:00:02  <peter1138> LordAro, not even joking :-)
23:00:07  <LordAro> makeitso.jpg
23:00:20  <LordAro> but maybe review/merge some existing PRs first pls
23:01:00  <peter1138> BORING!
23:01:04  <LordAro> D:
23:02:32  <peter1138> glx, it starts to make sense eventually :)
23:03:07  <glx> maybe we could close #7204 as #7234 does it in a better way
23:03:15  <Eddi|zuHause> there's some very deep logic in it
23:03:23  <peter1138> Not that much logic.
23:03:31  <glx> too much templates for me
23:03:39  <peter1138> It's just a maze of templates not helped by the strange naming conventions.
23:07:30  <peter1138> glx, I think that's the plan.
23:08:22  <glx> Samu: can you rebase #7158 and remove the useless commit ?
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23:12:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages. https://git.io/fh5uS
23:13:54  <Samu> 7158 let me see
23:14:10  <glx> well remove the commit first
23:15:03  <glx> but you'll still have conflicts in toolbar_gui.cpp without this commit
23:16:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN merged pull request #7240: Add: Shortcut for deleting all messages. https://git.io/fh5Ee
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23:21:21  <peter1138> Hmm, I guess I should squash #7234 now.
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23:30:28  <pnda> What's wrong with this "Thedarkb-T60" guy
23:31:09  <glx> his connection :)
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23:37:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7232: Change: Don't apply forbid 90 deg turn settings to ships. https://git.io/fh7DC
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23:38:16  <FLHerne> LordAro: I think OPF might be worth keeping simply as documentation...
23:38:33  <peter1138> Documentation of what?
23:38:33  <FLHerne> It might not be very good, but it's obvious how it works
23:38:47  <FLHerne> Whereas YAPF is just unreadable
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23:39:36  <FLHerne> Of how the pathfinder API works, which it should be using, etc.
23:39:40  <FLHerne> *which data
23:39:46  <peter1138> No, there is no API for that.
23:40:24  <peter1138> It's literally a switch () block for each vehicle type.
23:40:57  <glx> and a heavily templated A* algorithm :)
23:46:04  <Samu> back
23:46:07  <Samu> ok now i got time
23:46:17  <Samu> i see glx stuff got merged
23:46:51  <glx> yes that's why I suggest you remove your last commit before trying to rebase
23:47:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7238: Codechange: Remove assert when trying to intersect two tile areas and… https://git.io/fh5z3
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23:47:48  <glx> rebase -i ^HEAD then drop the commit
23:48:16  <glx> but you will still have conflicts to solve
23:48:53  <glx> as I touched the toolbar_gui.cpp part
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23:52:32  <supermop_Home> yo
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23:53:28  <Samu> wow, so complicated now
23:53:37  <Samu> have to see how it behaves
23:53:56  <glx> I think it's simpler now
23:57:48  <Samu> have to drop last commit
23:57:55  <Samu> then see what happens
23:57:59  <peter1138> o_O
23:58:19  <peter1138> Sometimes I wonder if this is a write-only medium.

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