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Log for #openttd on 6th March 2019:
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00:00:45  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
00:00:48  <milek7> there is global trend for that
00:01:08  <milek7> (eg. in debian)
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00:38:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhpUQ
01:09:04  <Samu> on a 4096x4096 map, what takes most time to advance in 1 tick?
01:20:40  <peter1138> Try asking a sensible question.
01:22:08  <ST2> [01:20:40] <@peter1138> Try asking a sensible question.  <<-- maybe asking Samu on what map size he thinks when he touches himself :D
01:22:56  <peter1138> What the heck?
01:23:21  <ST2> nevermind... was too sensible :D
01:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause> (i don't think i want to know)
01:28:00  <Beerbelott> Eddi|zuHause: pedantic?
01:28:17  <Beerbelott> sry just catching up w/ IRC
01:29:57  <Samu> was checking if it was trees or houses
01:30:26  <peter1138> There's too many unspecified variables, Samu.
01:30:53  <peter1138> You can generate a 4096x4096 map without trees, without houses, without industries, without vehicles...
01:33:35  <Samu> TileLoop_Clear (30.65%)
01:33:47  <peter1138> Forget about %ages.
01:34:02  <Samu> TileLoop_Water (22.49%)
01:34:08  <Samu> uuh, ok
01:35:41  <Samu> UpdateFences
01:35:51  <Samu> what is that?
01:35:57  <Samu> ah, farm land ?
01:37:40  <Samu> house tiles waste most time with StationFinder
01:37:45  <Samu> heh...
01:38:03  <Samu> not what I expected
01:38:13  <peter1138> Try that with non-rect-catchment :-)
01:43:09  <Samu> Blitter_32bppOptimized is heavy
01:44:15  <Samu> let me try non-rect-catchment
01:51:25  <peter1138> Hmm, interesting.
01:51:37  <peter1138> On a fresh 4kx4k map, high towns, all cities * 10...
01:52:20  <peter1138> world ticks for master is 16ms/t, non-rect-catchment is 13ms/t
01:55:05  <peter1138> Not bad considering I was doing it for functionality, not performance.
01:55:07  <peter1138> Night
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02:06:57  <supermop_Home> whenever i use a real heightmap, it's always so noisey - particularly in valleys - that rivers cannot form
02:07:08  <supermop_Home> nor is there any room for rails
02:07:54  <supermop_Home> then i spend like 2 hours dendritically trying to fix all the valleys
02:07:57  <supermop_Home> then i give up
02:08:57  <supermop_Home> there are always just tones of pot holes etc that block the valley floor.
02:09:19  <Samu> it took more time actually
02:09:30  <Samu> it was about 7%, raised to 9%
02:09:56  <supermop_Home> also all of my down town Honolulu is under water, and most of my pearl harbor is dry land
02:10:20  <Samu> those was the test non-rect-catchment results
02:10:30  <Samu> gotta go, cyas goodnight
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02:18:26  <supermop_Home> i guess i can process these a bit in photoshop
02:19:46  <supermop_Home> on max height 40, the tallest mountain on Oahu is level 28, which seems pretty good
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03:01:58  <supermop_Home> even reducing noise in photoshp doesn't help the noisiness issue
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07:06:50  <peter1138> And that's the issue with only caring about %ages :)
07:17:02  <peter1138> Hmm, Wentbourne drops from 1.55ms/t to 1.30ms/t for world tricks. Not much but not slower.
07:20:36  <peter1138> Cargo handling increases from 1.75ms/t to 1.80ms/t though.
07:20:38  <peter1138> Hmm
07:43:52  <peter1138> 2 days faster after over 40 minutes :p
08:06:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fhptO
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08:46:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rsn8887 opened issue #7333: Libtimidity could be trivially enabled to play music through mixer.cpp https://git.io/fhpqq
08:46:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhpqm
08:59:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7333: Libtimidity could be trivially enabled to play music through mixer.cpp https://git.io/fhpqE
09:00:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhpqu
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10:32:30  <peter1138> Hmm, why would vcenter not give me the option to migrate a VM's CPU & storage at the same time? :S
10:58:10  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN commented on pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out https://git.io/fhpY2
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11:27:13  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] nielsmh commented on pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out https://git.io/fhpOI
11:27:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7213: Feature: BFS-based river generator https://git.io/fhpOL
12:29:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker commented on pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out https://git.io/fhp3X
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13:08:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7213: Feature: BFS-based river generator https://git.io/fhpsS
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13:42:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7235: Change: Non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5s1
13:57:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #7289: Add: Configurable ship curve penalties (YAPF) https://git.io/fhN1H
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14:49:06  <Samu> hi
14:51:04  <peter1138> Hello.
14:52:37  <Samu> the RC1 intro game
14:53:00  <Samu> it's that of master
14:53:26  <Samu> arctic landscape, with 2 hovercrafts
14:53:32  <nielsm> yes?
14:53:33  <nielsm> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=84827
14:53:42  <nielsm> the competition for 1.9.0 title screen is not over yet
14:53:47  <Samu> ah
14:54:36  <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=207188 haha, look at the size of those planes in the commuter
14:55:11  <Samu> another guy who sets plane_crashes to none
14:57:26  <peter1138> Planecrashes on the intro screen provide a bit of interest ;p
15:02:55  <peter1138> Why do OpenGFX vehicle offsets suck? :S
15:14:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7250: K-d tree data structure for spatial lookups https://git.io/fhd4b
15:18:32  <nielsm> oh no, next on the plate is nmlc :D
15:19:21  <peter1138> :)
15:19:48  <peter1138> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7235 and just approve that ;)
15:23:30  <nielsm> hmm if I make more commits to my indcargonum nml branch, then I should PR those to your 16-in-out branch peter1138, so they can end up in the main PR?
15:25:03  <peter1138> Is it the same branch?
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15:25:31  <peter1138> Or a load of new features?
15:25:46  <nielsm> same branch I think...
15:26:12  <peter1138> Then you can just push to 16-in-out, right?
15:26:19  <peter1138> Or PR if you like
15:26:42  <peter1138> I don't know what changes need to be made
15:43:31  <Samu> weird
15:43:37  <Samu> bug with ships
15:48:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7334: Ships are lost around aqueducts with YAPF https://git.io/fhpcN
15:48:25  <Samu> ship cache, I suspect?
15:50:00  <Samu> funny, this was about to be my entry to intro screen lol
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15:59:16  <peter1138> Hmm.
15:59:32  <peter1138> I'll look tonight.
15:59:54  <Samu> oki
16:00:22  <peter1138> At a guess it's because aqueducts are a single segment, but this is the only place where ships have this.
16:00:35  <peter1138> Means the fix is the same as for the RV path cache.
16:00:54  <peter1138> Actually it might be simpler.
16:04:02  <planetmaker> do you know that it is somewhat pointless to compress savegames, Samu? :)
16:04:26  <planetmaker> default settings use a better compression than zip
16:04:49  <peter1138> You'd think he would because he spent time on it.
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16:06:46  <nielsm> github won't let you upload .sav files so you have to pack it in an archive regardless
16:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause> how would i isolate my changes from nml hg and put them onto a github clone?
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16:54:03  <Samu> is it intended that cactus trees create semi-grass-semi-desert in the adjacent tiles?
16:57:55  <Samu> https://imgur.com/q9lRmaX
17:00:01  <nielsm> no
17:00:33  <nielsm> maybe related to that trees on coast is still water tile fix
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17:07:47  <Samu> but it looks kinda cool
17:17:02  <Eddi|zuHause> can't imagine how that happens
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17:29:44  <nielsm> peter1138: https://github.com/PeterN/nml/pull/1
17:30:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rsn8887 commented on issue #7333: Libtimidity could be trivially enabled to play music through mixer.cpp https://git.io/fhplx
17:33:45  <Samu> this night I had a dream about subsidies
17:33:50  <Samu> how to improve them
17:33:57  <Samu> make them more appealing
17:36:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7333: Libtimidity could be trivially enabled to play music through mixer.cpp https://git.io/fhp8J
17:42:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7333: Libtimidity could be trivially enabled to play music through mixer.cpp https://git.io/fhp8Y
17:42:40  <peter1138> Make them work with cargodist on :/
17:43:19  <nielsm> peter1138: iirc fluidsynth has some slightly annoying deps on glib and others
17:45:29  <peter1138> So? Getting that working on his/her port would be better than having unmaintained code on our side :)
17:45:41  <peter1138> "OpenTTD for Switch v1.0"
17:45:44  <peter1138> That's a shame.
17:46:05  <peter1138> Using a different version number :/
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17:47:11  <peter1138> nielsm, hmm, seems to be a lot of unrelated stuff in that PR?
17:47:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rsn8887 commented on issue #7333: Libtimidity could be trivially enabled to play music through mixer.cpp https://git.io/fhp8C
17:48:04  <Gwyd> So I heard that OpenGFX is having a slow down in development. What actually needs doing?
17:48:31  <peter1138> Gwyd, it's not really.
17:48:45  <peter1138> OpenGFX is effectively *complete*
17:48:54  <peter1138> It doesn't need any changes.
17:49:07  <peter1138> So nobody is creating graphics for it.
17:49:30  <peter1138> The only time it needs an update it when OpenTTD adds some of its own new sprites.
17:49:47  <Gwyd> According to a post here: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=84911 it needs new features to keep up with what OpenTTD can do
17:49:51  <peter1138> This happens very rarely so you wouldn't notice.
17:50:04  <peter1138> Gwyd, yes it needs to be updated for this.
17:50:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rsn8887 commented on issue #7333: Libtimidity could be trivially enabled to play music through mixer.cpp https://git.io/fhp8R
17:50:37  <Gwyd> But things like trams have been around for a while
17:50:40  <peter1138> Gwyd, but to say opengfx is "ahving a slow down in development" is wrong, when it was not being developed because it was, up until now, complete.
17:50:56  <Gwyd> That would make sense
17:51:35  <peter1138> It just needs someone to set up and create the additional sprites. And then that's it.
17:52:51  <milek7> hm, didn't nintendo had very restrictive NDA for switch sdk?
17:52:58  <milek7> or it is unofficial homebrew?
17:54:00  <peter1138> It's homebrew, yes.
17:54:08  <nielsm> peter1138, tried again :P  https://github.com/PeterN/nml/pull/2
17:55:02  <peter1138> That looks better.
17:55:06  <peter1138> Misplaced rebase?
17:55:30  <nielsm> incompatible branches more or less
17:55:49  <nielsm> my original indcargonum branch and your somewhat modified 16-in-out branch based on mine
17:55:52  <peter1138> Yeah, mine had been rebased to get rid of all the merges.
17:56:11  <peter1138> So the old syntax was not working, hence it is being removed?
17:56:21  <nielsm> so now I just checked out your branch anew and cherry picked the changes
17:56:26  <peter1138> Got to admit, I know nothing about nml :D
17:56:33  <peter1138> Yeah, that often works out easier.
17:56:36  <nielsm> planetmaker recommends removing old syntax
17:56:55  <peter1138> Breaking existing nml files. Hmm.
17:56:57  <nielsm> nml is apparently supposed to only support the latest and greatest of syntax
17:57:04  <peter1138> Ah.
17:57:07  <nielsm> in both nfo/grf and its own language
17:57:13  <peter1138> That kinda makes sense.
17:57:20  <peter1138> Means you don't have to maintain old cruft around forever.
17:57:25  <nielsm> yeah
17:57:44  <nielsm> maybe someone needs to write a quick migration guide from the old syntax to new
17:57:47  <nielsm> :/
17:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i recently made the old production callback syntax work, but it turned out andy had to completely change his GRF in other places as well
17:58:32  <Samu> mail subsidies when towns produce 1 mail a month... is there a way to fix this?
17:58:50  <Eddi|zuHause> so not sure how useful that part is
17:59:06  <peter1138> Samu, what needs fixing?
17:59:18  <Samu> not that it's wrong, but it's so unrewarding, it's not worth it
17:59:28  <peter1138> Isn't the point of a subsidy to support unprofitable routes?
17:59:30  <Samu> it could subsidize other stuff instead
17:59:44  <peter1138> I think 1 mail a month is a pretty good candidate
18:00:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that was this change here https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pyhxujcqj?
18:00:22  <peter1138> This is why I mentioned intra-town subsidies last week. They're generally less profit due to being short distance, so ideal for subsidies.
18:00:23  <nielsm> FindSubsidyTownCargoRoute() checks if (town_cargo_produced == 0) return false;
18:00:53  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, if the aim of nml is to only have 1 syntax, then fixing the old syntax is pointless.
18:01:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
18:01:30  <peter1138> Unless nmlc also has a "deprecated feature" migration plan
18:01:36  <Eddi|zuHause> but whether that was the aim was a bit unclear then
18:01:39  <peter1138> Like support the old method for 1 release with a warning.
18:01:46  <peter1138> Then remove it
18:02:00  <peter1138> But, if it keeps cruft around, meh.
18:02:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't actually looked any deeper than that
18:02:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i just silenced andy's "i don't know how a parser works" complaints :p
18:03:51  <peter1138> :)
18:04:35  <peter1138> This Switch port is fairly up to date, that's good.
18:05:20  <Samu> I'm thinking of SUBSIDY_CARGO_MIN_POPULATION
18:05:32  <Samu> for town cargoes other than passengers
18:05:42  <nielsm> Samu, consider that the town is offering a subsidy _because_ it's small
18:06:12  <nielsm> (for a lore reason)
18:06:20  <Samu> small is fine, but 1 a month is really a waste
18:06:38  <nielsm> you're free to not take it
18:06:40  <Samu> don't you think?
18:06:45  <peter1138> Gwyd, btw, not sure what trams have to do with it?
18:08:38  <peter1138> Hmm, hope I can fix this bug without a savegame bump.
18:10:23  <peter1138> Backporting makes that awkward.
18:11:21  <peter1138> Should be doable.
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18:13:14  <peter1138> Ok yeah, just don't consume the cache when on a bridge tile.
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18:15:45  <peter1138> Hmm, not quite. It's not consumed already.
18:16:27  <supermop_work_> yo
18:16:50  <peter1138> I should check RV bridges as well.
18:17:32  <Samu> I just realized SUBSIDY_CARGO_MIN_POPULATION isn't used anywhere
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18:20:57  <andythenorth> yo
18:21:15  <nielsm> yoyo
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18:22:52  <peter1138> Hmm, okay, I need to pop one entry off the ship path cache.
18:23:24  <peter1138> I can either do that, or I can attempt to not add it in the first place. But to do that means the path finder needs to check all the tiles in the path to see if it's bridge tile.
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18:23:58  <peter1138> Whereas if I pop it off while the ship is on the bridge, well, it already knows it's on the bridge and can just do it.
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18:24:13  <peter1138> More efficient, but technically less correct? o_O
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18:26:06  <LordAro> i'd prefer more technically correct :p
18:26:14  <LordAro> can't make that much of a difference
18:26:15  <peter1138> It's still correct.
18:26:19  <peter1138> It can.
18:26:30  <peter1138> It means you need to check *every* tile in the path to see if it's bridge.
18:26:35  <peter1138> For every path find.
18:26:45  <LordAro> hmm
18:26:48  <peter1138> Vs... just popping off the stack if the ship is already on a bridge.
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18:27:41  <peter1138> Also it means you need to invalidate the path cache on old games because it's wrong.
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18:30:31  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i found a glowing orb thing that i can't compress, and when i put it in the front of my large rover, the game crashes when i start the drill :/
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18:33:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7335: Fix #7334: Ship lost after crossing bridge due to path cache not being consumed while on final bridge end. https://git.io/fhp4Y
18:34:41  <peter1138> Samu, ^^
18:35:07  <Samu> cool, will test later, now I'm on subsidies
18:38:06  <Samu> testing subsidies scalled by map size, wht wwill happen
18:39:12  <Samu> the distance, and the number
18:45:25  <Samu> 70 for 256x256 maps
18:45:30  <Samu> 140 for 512x512 maps
18:45:42  <Samu> what would it be on 4096x4096 maps?
18:47:01  <glx> I think subsidies can be managed by GS
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19:03:02  <Samu> 1120
19:03:29  <Samu> well, acceptable i suppose
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19:07:13  <Samu> there can be a max of 12 subsidies running at the same time, if I'm not wrong
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19:24:18  <Wolf01> o/
19:24:51  <Samu> @calc 17*12
19:24:51  <DorpsGek> Samu: 204
19:24:56  <Samu> good
19:26:04  <Samu> a maximum possible number of 204 subsidies in 4096x4096, what u think?
19:26:42  <nielsm> impossible to get an overview of
19:26:54  <nielsm> it would need a lot of UI improvements
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19:27:47  <Wolf01> Quak
19:28:13  <frosch123> moo
19:30:44  <peter1138> glx, GS can't fix subidies with cargodist.
19:31:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #5208: Console: make console commands 'ls' and 'load' work with scenarios https://git.io/fhp4h
19:33:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN updated pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out https://git.io/fhpBT
19:34:07  <peter1138> Hmm
19:34:43  <nielsm> andythenorth: can you check if that PR still builds FIRS?
19:34:55  <andythenorth> shortly yes :)
19:38:38  <peter1138> Urgh, that big bucket had some very stagnant water in it :/
19:41:05  <peter1138> Hmm, how do we do backports now?
19:41:26  <peter1138> I could make a PR again the 1.9 branch but...
19:41:34  <nielsm> make a PR against the 1.9 branch
19:41:44  <andythenorth> does that nml PR include Eddi's parser fix? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pemgnti9i/pdqrbp/raw
19:41:47  <andythenorth> I haven't been keeping up
19:42:02  <nielsm> it doesn't fix the parser, it rips all the old syntax out :)
19:42:06  <peter1138> andythenorth, no, it's unnecessary.
19:43:11  * andythenorth tests
19:43:31  <andythenorth> my advice, don't move FIRS to github in the midst of an nml change and a FIRS rewrite
19:43:50  <andythenorth> one thing at a time :P
19:43:59  <peter1138> Isn't it already moved?
19:44:05  <andythenorth> it is yes
19:44:09  <andythenorth> so the compile is all broken now
19:44:13  <andythenorth> but anyway
19:44:41  <andythenorth> this looking correct?
19:44:42  <andythenorth> (bin35) firs(master)$ nmlc --version
19:44:43  <andythenorth> 2019-03-06-g1f6c7725
19:44:50  <andythenorth> currently failing to compile
19:44:55  <andythenorth> just checking I have correct rev
19:45:03  <Wolf01> * andythenorth tests <- I just published the cloud app without a minimal testing, if it works it works
19:45:29  <andythenorth> not sure how hashes compare between forks :(
19:45:45  <nielsm> what kind of error?
19:46:03  <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: "generated/firs.nml", line 7342: Syntax error, unexpected token "waiting_cargo_1"
19:46:15  <andythenorth> not sure I have the correct version of PR here though
19:47:08  <andythenorth> nope I do
19:48:43  <nielsm> hmm those are supposed to be valid vars
19:49:20  <nielsm> although it looks like the new vars that cover all cargoes aren't implemented... maybe
19:49:22  <nielsm> :s
19:49:26  <nielsm> so still a way to go
19:49:42  <nielsm> oh wait no
19:49:55  <nielsm> those are separate from the non-parameterised vars
19:50:38  <nielsm> instead of waiting_cargo_1 try incoming_cargo_waiting('COAL')
19:50:40  <nielsm> or whatevet
19:50:48  <nielsm> I think the syntax should be
19:52:35  <andythenorth> ah
19:52:42  <andythenorth> does this break the old production cb?
19:53:05  <nielsm> the old produce syntax is no longer valid
19:53:13  <andythenorth> yes that makes sense
19:53:17  <andythenorth> but FIRS still declares it
19:53:21  <andythenorth> so it shouldn't compile
19:54:11  <nielsm> maybe it just reports the bad syntax in a bad way
19:54:49  <andythenorth> block is https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pso2li1qk/houc8u/raw
19:55:23  <nielsm> yeah, it's expecting a "[" where it finds "waiting_cargo_1"
19:55:31  <nielsm> and the error reporting is bad :P
19:55:46  <Samu> https://imgur.com/mprrvBG 1 year of subsidies
19:56:28  <nielsm> Samu yeah I would want to filter/sort that by cargo, source, destination, expiry date, and possibly more
19:56:39  <nielsm> when the count is that large
19:57:07  <andythenorth> I suppose detecting the old syntax requires parsing it?
19:57:16  <andythenorth> so issuing a deprecation warning is TMWFTLB?
19:59:15  <nielsm> it might be possible to get it to report better without doing that
19:59:32  <nielsm> but that requires learning more about the parser library than I'm prepared for at this time
20:00:40  <Samu> that's on a 4096x4096 sized map. The number of subsidies is scaled by map
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20:01:09  <Samu> do you think it's worth doing a filter?
20:03:51  <Samu> i guess it wouldn't hurt
20:06:16  <Samu> simpleai is an ai that enjoys subsidies, let's test it
20:16:15  <peter1138> Who knew
20:18:02  <planetmaker> hi ho
20:18:03  <peter1138> Hmm, should towns build bridges over incompatible road types?
20:19:18  <planetmaker> nielsm, "traditionally" nml indeed only supported the latest grf versions. You cannot use it to write old grfs. For existing code it is easy to maintain a legacy branch so that a NeWGRF with old production code can still use NML. Just not NML master
20:19:38  <planetmaker> We did that as well when we changed callback syntax
20:19:48  <Eddi|zuHause> good error reporting in a compiler is difficult...
20:19:49  <peter1138> I think it makes sense not to maintain old parts.
20:20:33  <planetmaker> Yes... it otherwise easily gains ... crust and stains and becomes even more a burden to maintain
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20:21:08  <planetmaker> and backporting non-breaking changes and additions to a legacy branch for some time is easy.
20:21:33  <planetmaker> just cherry-pick and be done and release both
20:21:45  <peter1138> :)
20:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, difficult to judge beforehand which one is easier to maintain
20:22:34  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0
20:22:39  <andythenorth> so how do we handle the failure demand?
20:22:57  <peter1138> ?
20:23:11  <peter1138> Document how to update your code.
20:23:29  <Eddi|zuHause> 1) migration guide, 2) useful error message
20:23:38  <nielsm> I guess the old waiting_cargo_[123] etc. variables should also be removed
20:23:42  <Eddi|zuHause> 2) error message pointing to the migration guide
20:24:08  <peter1138> Whoops, my game crashed
20:24:25  <peter1138> Boo, wasn't a debug build, nor in a debugger :(
20:24:57  <peter1138> (nrt-block build)
20:25:02  <planetmaker> what happened to newgrf wiki? It's awefully slow... with the tls handshake with aws
20:25:26  <planetmaker> andythenorth, Eddi|zuHause : like https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Changes_0.3
20:25:57  <Eddi|zuHause> getting the handshake stall as well
20:26:48  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yeah (2) was really the point of my question
20:26:54  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, so we need a changes 0.4 to 0.5
20:27:01  <andythenorth> and the 0.3 migration guide is pretty good eh
20:27:20  <andythenorth> are 16-cargo houses done?
20:27:20  <planetmaker> and like that is what I envision for 0.4 to 0.5 as well
20:27:34  <andythenorth> nml does not have any hygiene about tickets right now
20:27:39  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it's a good start, but the error message really needs refining
20:27:46  <andythenorth> we didn't add any because there was an idea to migrate old devzone issues
20:27:49  <planetmaker> and that makes it easy to just do one thing in NML and continue cleanly
20:27:50  <andythenorth> so we'd get ID colissions
20:27:56  <andythenorth> colisions :P
20:28:06  <planetmaker> andythenorth, you know how to migrate them? :|
20:28:12  <andythenorth> TrueBrain might
20:28:31  <andythenorth> the issues are a hygiene factor
20:28:45  <Eddi|zuHause> so it would be a bad idea to open a PR against NML?
20:28:49  <andythenorth> I was going to manually copy-paste, but frosch pointed out we need a process to migrate all
20:28:54  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I've opened one
20:29:07  <Eddi|zuHause> PRs and tickets share a number space
20:29:41  <planetmaker> hm, there's actually... migration scripts in the internet
20:30:09  <planetmaker> let me try one
20:30:15  <planetmaker> on my own nml copy first
20:30:24  <nielsm> hmm just noticed there aren't any replacements for variables production_rate_[12]
20:31:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on issue #6381: Game Script: method to change company rating in town https://git.io/fhpRE
20:31:20  <nielsm> and transported_last_month_pct_[12] aren't remade either, but that can be calculated
20:33:04  <frosch123> planetmaker: i can give you the scripts that i have
20:33:14  <frosch123> anyway, i never wanted to keep the issue numbers
20:33:18  <planetmaker> oh, you have one already? :)
20:33:26  <planetmaker> no, the issue numbers... don't need to be kept
20:33:43  <frosch123> devzone numbered issues over all projects, so creating 8k issues for nml with 7.9k dummies is silly
20:33:49  <planetmaker> though we did with openttd... issue numbers in redmine are global... so... 6k issues or so is stupid
20:33:56  <planetmaker> :)
20:33:59  <andythenorth> yeah :)
20:34:04  <andythenorth> ok so we'd need to renumber anyway
20:34:26  <frosch123> planetmaker: https://github.com/frosch123/nml/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aclosed <- those were created by script
20:36:10  <planetmaker> shouldn't that be more issues?
20:36:36  <frosch123> i only did 2 for testing different layouts
20:36:49  <frosch123> but apparently there is also an api limit, so you cannot create all at once
20:37:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] nielsmh commented on pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out https://git.io/fhpRK
20:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the "Type:" thing sounds like nonsense
20:38:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the [901] needs some context
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20:40:08  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure it needs to be in the title at all
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20:42:02  <Eddi|zuHause> also, in OpenTTD migration, the posts were made using quotes (">"), which may make it clearer that the post was not written by the poster
20:42:48  <peter1138> Bah, the crash save didn't crash :p
20:43:07  <Eddi|zuHause> also, IIRC that import script kept the post dates.
20:43:35  <planetmaker> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/arunpersaud/9e052987bc13572d24468a83d6d0bcc2/raw/44edddb07cf36d7eef1eb9533e538ada3d226aab/transfer_issues_redmine_to_github <-- I shall have a look at that, too
20:44:42  <planetmaker> but frosch's link looks more elaborate.
20:45:57  <peter1138> nielsm, these variables are already replaced, yes?
20:46:15  <frosch123> planetmaker: https://github.com/IQSS/redmine2github <- i used that one
20:46:30  <frosch123> i can send you two modified files for layout adjustments
20:46:40  <frosch123> and the already completed export from redmin
20:49:05  <planetmaker> please :)
20:49:12  <peter1138> Yay! It crashed!
20:49:16  <peter1138> ileType GetTileType(TileIndex): Assertion `tile < MapSize()' failed.
20:49:20  <peter1138> Mmm :)
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20:56:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)  https://git.io/vhlfg
20:56:10  <supermop_work____> hi andythenorth
20:56:19  <andythenorth> hi
20:57:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] PeterN updated pull request #15: Industries: support 16 cargos in / 16 cargos out https://git.io/fhpBT
20:57:27  <peter1138> I'm going to assume they're correct.
20:58:22  <nielsm> me too :P
20:58:41  <nielsm> I have very little basis for testing and checking this
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21:03:30  <peter1138> Well it's a PR into a PR so no biggie.
21:04:10  <Samu> subsidies just next door, what do you think of these?
21:04:21  <peter1138> Short distance?
21:04:24  <peter1138> Yes please.
21:04:30  <Samu> transporting like 10-15 tiles away
21:04:37  <Samu> hmm ok
21:04:44  <peter1138> Long distance doesn't need subsidizing.
21:05:07  <Samu> about long distance ones, I was thinking perhaps a bit more time
21:05:22  <Samu> 12 months is a little bit short
21:05:33  <Samu> if it can now be at most 1120 tiles away
21:06:13  <Samu> must think
21:06:21  <peter1138> Subsidy max distance is 70 tiles.
21:06:35  <peter1138> There's no need for a subsidy to be 1120 tiles away.
21:06:36  <Samu> Im modifying it to scale by map size
21:06:49  <peter1138> I think you are confusing what subsidies are.
21:07:02  <Samu> return (DistanceManhattan(tile_src, tile_dst) <= max(SUBSIDY_MAX_DISTANCE, ScaleByMapSize1D(SUBSIDY_MAX_DISTANCE)));
21:07:07  <peter1138> nrt-block passed CI, shall we merge it? :p
21:08:45  <Samu> another thing I thought would be, transport type
21:08:49  <Samu> would be cool*
21:09:16  <Samu> transport passengers from here to there, using transport type rail, road, air, water
21:09:37  <Samu> one of them
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21:14:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7336: Add: AI API for vehicle group colours https://git.io/fhp00
21:14:07  <peter1138> PR spam!
21:14:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe updated pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command https://git.io/fhNZl
21:22:47  <planetmaker> what level of access do I have to grant a github access token in order to create issues?
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21:23:38  <andythenorth> peter1138: 1.10 :P
21:23:50  <peter1138> Yes?
21:24:14  <andythenorth> is 1.9 now branched away from master?
21:24:28  <planetmaker> yes
21:24:36  <andythenorth> NRT -> nightlies then
21:24:39  <andythenorth> needs nml support
21:24:42  <Samu> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidy#Transport_subsidies
21:24:43  <peter1138> Yes.
21:24:55  <Samu> well, they talk about airports, so i don't consider that short distances
21:25:13  <Samu> that article is too much real world
21:25:17  <andythenorth> funny that https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/commits/NotRoadTypes
21:25:43  <andythenorth> that repo needs work
21:25:50  <peter1138> Yeah, those flags don't exist.
21:25:53  <andythenorth> it's an old import of the hg repo by me
21:26:00  <peter1138> https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/commit/8434ab8eb90bd2dcdbdbcd35838972857a356aa1
21:26:02  <andythenorth> it's not a fork of Openttd/nml
21:26:20  <andythenorth> peter1138: that's the wrong branch no?
21:26:29  <andythenorth> or I made a git error :P
21:26:47  <peter1138> Probably
21:27:02  <peter1138> Oh, no those flags do exist.
21:27:03  <andythenorth> 3 Feb 2018?
21:27:10  <peter1138> Well, sort of
21:27:14  <peter1138> ALLOW_HOUSES is not correct
21:27:20  <andythenorth> wtf, that's a month ago, I have no recollection of that at all
21:27:27  <peter1138> No, it's 13 months ago.
21:27:37  <andythenorth> that's why then
21:27:39  <peter1138> It's NO_HOUSES for both road and tram types.
21:27:59  <andythenorth> anyway, it's a crappy commit history
21:28:05  <andythenorth> but it did appear to work and make grfs
21:28:21  <peter1138> People are probably using it.
21:28:27  <andythenorth> they are
21:28:37  <peter1138> Anyway, yes, 1.9 was branched.
21:28:55  <peter1138> Btw, 1.9 was branched, in case you didn't know.
21:29:20  <peter1138>         ROTSG_reserved1,      ///<           Placeholder, if we need specific tunnel sprites.
21:29:23  <peter1138> Yeah, we do :p
21:29:28  <peter1138>         ROTSG_reserved1,      ///<           Placeholder, if we need specific tunnel sprites.
21:29:33  <peter1138> Sounds nice.
21:29:38  <peter1138> These can be implemented after though.
21:30:28  <peter1138> Hmm, there's a SmallVector in there...
21:30:56  <m3henry> Uh oh
21:31:04  <peter1138> Good idea to replace that before it's merged
21:31:18  * m3henry foams
21:31:41  <peter1138> :D
21:32:13  <LordAro> m3henry: do you have a highlight on smallvector now? :p
21:32:21  <m3henry> That can be done?
21:32:28  <peter1138> Urgh, there's no contains for std::vector is there...
21:32:34  <LordAro> depends on irc client, but usually
21:34:58  <nielsm> nope, std::vector doesn't have contains, you have to find() and compare to end()
21:36:30  <m3henry> I'm glad flat_map and flat_set are in for C++20
21:36:46  <peter1138> That's years away.
21:36:48  <nielsm> ah, they're adding "stupid" maps/sets
21:36:50  <nielsm> good
21:37:18  <m3henry> But it's good to keep in mind
21:38:03  <peter1138> Yeah, they'd be useful for us.
21:38:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)  https://git.io/vhlfg
21:39:25  <m3henry> I was thinking of replacing SmallMap with a container adapter, but now it makes more sense to use std::map, and then switch to std::flat_map when that becomes available
21:39:53  <LordAro> what are the differences?
21:40:38  <m3henry> std::map: tree structure vs std::flat_map: array structure
21:41:29  <nielsm> std::map will typically cause lots of small allocations on the heap, one for each element, while std::flat_map will have a single big allocation
21:41:31  <m3henry> depending on the data usage, one will be faster
21:41:36  <LordAro> i see
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21:42:08  <nielsm> std::map has asymptotically better performance, but in practice for small-ish amounts of data a flat_map will often perform better because of CPU cache
21:42:44  <frosch123> LordAro: people say, for performance always use std::vector
21:43:21  <m3henry> default to*
21:44:48  <m3henry> I do wonder if the llvm::SmallVector and llvm::TinyPtrVector might be useful
21:51:09  <frosch123> m3henry: where did you read that flap_map is in c++20? or did you only express your hope?
21:52:38  *** Gumle2 has quit IRC
21:53:31  <m3henry> http://timur.audio/trip-report-february-2019-iso-c-committee-meeting-kona-hawaii
21:54:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe updated pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command https://git.io/fhNZl
21:56:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7000: Some NewGRF variables concerning railtypes https://git.io/fhpEB
21:57:16  <peter1138> Interesting, because nrt is andythenorth's PR, I can approve it...
21:57:28  <andythenorth> lol
21:57:33  <andythenorth> but are you gonna?
21:57:43  <andythenorth> we used to do much worse things?
21:57:52  <peter1138> We did used to, yes.
21:57:56  <andythenorth> but what will the shareholders say!
21:58:10  <peter1138> 13 commits... Hmm.
21:58:28  <peter1138> Probably should squash a bit more.
22:02:53  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:scaled-subsidies?expand=1
22:02:58  <Samu> PR or not?
22:04:19  <Samu> completing a subsidy 1120 tiles away in 12 months... only possible with aircraft
22:04:31  <Samu> maybe this is not necessary
22:04:34  <Samu> I don't know
22:05:03  <Samu> was thinking of scalling months
22:08:35  * m3henry wonders how far from approval #7165 is
22:16:30  *** nielsm has quit IRC
22:17:16  <m3henry> git s
22:17:44  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)  https://git.io/vhlfg
22:18:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] Eddi-z opened pull request #21: Eddi-nml branch for ActionC support https://git.io/fhpED
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22:19:52  <Eddi|zuHause> .. 2013
22:20:02  <peter1138> :-)
22:21:12  <Eddi|zuHause> only significant update since then was for python3 support
22:21:50  <Eddi|zuHause> and the devzone builds haven't worked for years
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22:33:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe updated pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command https://git.io/fhNZl
22:37:51  <Beerbelott> Man, that was a hell of a rebasing...
22:38:39  <Beerbelott> preprocessor calls removed in a section I edited... ofc diff was lost
22:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you lose a diff?
22:42:43  <Beerbelott> it was inserting #if !defined(_WIN32) at the wrong place since that section I edited in one of my commits
22:43:01  <Beerbelott> and it still had the AMIGA & stuff preprocessor call in there
22:44:07  <Beerbelott> that's because it was removing the content of trunk to put the content of the commit on top of it in the proposed changes
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22:44:39  <Beerbelott> anyway user error in the end, I suppose
22:46:35  <planetmaker> g'night
22:46:39  <peter1138> brrr, got cold
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23:18:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Beerbelott: so, that's a merge conflict, but what is "lost" there?
23:20:26  *** Flygon has joined #openttd
23:23:52  <Beerbelott> the diff tool
23:23:57  <Beerbelott> kinda lost
23:23:58  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
23:24:05  <Beerbelott> well it inherited a f*** up situation
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23:29:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhpuF
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23:48:23  <drac_boy> hi there
23:52:48  <peter1138>  hi

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