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Log for #openttd on 28th March 2019:
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00:00:31  <Samu> the tile iterator is iterating over the other side of the map
00:01:07  <Samu> tile 959 is the void tile on the bottom left
00:01:15  <Samu> tile 960 is the void tile on the top right
00:04:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7428: Fix #7165: SmallMap::Erase(key) does not work correctly https://git.io/fjTIb
00:04:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7428: Fix #7165: SmallMap::Erase(key) does not work correctly https://git.io/fjTUY
00:06:19  <michi_cc> LordAro: Thanks.
00:06:45  <Samu> HERE'S the problem https://imgur.com/qpnuX5o
00:06:57  <Samu> tile 958 is out there at the bottom left side of the screen
00:07:21  <Samu> the airport we're trying to build is intercontinental
00:08:05  <Samu> FOR_ALL_TOWNS method says the closest town is Nahill
00:08:21  <Samu> Kdtree method says the closest town is Little Drentfield
00:08:26  <Samu> and they're both wrong
00:08:51  <Samu> at naked eye, I can clearly see it's Brinnington
00:09:01  <glx> fix it then :)
00:09:07  <Samu> yeah... it's the iterator
00:09:18  <Samu> it's passing invalid tiles as valid :(
00:11:56  <_dp_> Samu, Little Drenfield and Brinnington are about the same distance
00:12:18  <_dp_> Samu, naked eye doesn't work well with manhattan distances on isometric projection :p
00:12:57  <Samu> it's close to the bare land at the right side
00:13:10  <Samu> the rigth most bareland, the y width of intercontinental
00:14:33  <peter1138> It's AirportTileTableIterator in this instance, right?
00:15:15  <Samu> tile 960 is being passed as valid, and that already a tile on the top right side
00:15:57  <Samu> not sure, how do I check that?
00:16:21  <peter1138> By following the code :p
00:16:30  <peter1138> It's an unplaced airport, so yes.
00:16:58  <_dp_> ah, it's airport iterator missing boundary check
00:17:11  <_dp_> was wondering how did you manage to get FOR_ALL wrong xD
00:17:39  <glx> missing MP_VOID checks somewhere probably
00:18:19  <peter1138> I'm thinking it probably shouldn't need to bounds check.
00:18:36  <peter1138> At least, not within the iterator itself.
00:18:42  <peter1138> Should be before it.
00:19:01  <peter1138> It makes no sense to iterate for something that is not possible to build.
00:19:06  <Samu> i was so focused on two towns, i missed the 3rd town, which was right in front of my eyes...
00:19:22  <_dp_> peter1138, idk, I see none
00:19:31  <peter1138> ?
00:19:50  <peter1138> See none what?
00:20:03  <glx> I think there's a check on click, when you actually try to build
00:20:14  <Samu> AIs can check there
00:20:19  <Samu> that's how I found this
00:20:40  <peter1138> Yeah, src/scrfipt/api/script_airport.cpp
00:20:48  <_dp_> peter1138, no checks
00:20:56  <Samu> AIAirport.GetNearestTown(958, AIAirport.AT_INTERCON);
00:21:04  <peter1138> Yeah, but no checks where?
00:21:42  <_dp_> good question :)
00:21:53  <glx> I guess the AI should first check if it can build an airport before checking for the nearest town
00:22:01  <peter1138> Well, I mean, where were you looking for checks?
00:24:43  <_dp_> peter1138, in GetNearestTown
00:25:05  <_dp_> techically yes, can probably be solved if checked if can build first
00:25:21  <_dp_> still not good that you can make gs do some nonsense
00:26:18  <glx> indeed before trying to get the town the script function should probably check for valid airport location
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00:27:27  <_dp_> is there a way to check tho?
00:27:32  <Samu> this function is already heavy, you're gonna make it heavier?
00:27:32  <peter1138> Yes?
00:27:43  <_dp_> except trying to build one and getting an error
00:28:05  <peter1138> Samu, doing it before any loop means it will be a very lightweight function.
00:28:29  <glx> airport size is maybe accessible (not checked), if it is the check is easy
00:28:33  <Samu> just at the borders
00:28:38  <stormcone> maybe build rail station also needs some checks, there were a report in JGR's patch pack about AI that were trying to build a station outside of the map
00:28:44  <Samu> but when the map is big...
00:29:26  <peter1138> Samu, what's better, slightly more checks (which are not going to slow anything down) or pointlessly doing lots of checks which are wrong?
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00:29:45  <Samu> more checks
00:30:28  <glx> yeah if invalid location return NULL is better than returning wrong town after heavy calculation
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00:30:51  <peter1138> So, I'm working on it :-)
00:30:55  <Samu> returning NULL can be bad
00:31:09  <Samu> nullptr stuff happening
00:31:22  <glx> well you can return an error too
00:31:33  <glx> AIs know errors :)
00:31:59  <glx> just another precondition
00:32:12  <Samu> I was thinking more like... return the actual town
00:32:28  <Samu> return Brinnington
00:32:31  <peter1138> You are thinking wrong.
00:32:39  <Samu> :(
00:32:41  <glx> you can't search for the town if the airport can't exist
00:32:42  <peter1138> The airport is not buildable there. It should fail.
00:33:12  <Samu> but what about non ai functions
00:33:23  <glx> GUI prevent it
00:33:45  <glx> when you try to place an airport you don't wrap around the map
00:33:50  <glx> IIRC
00:34:46  <Samu> I suspect that's going to kill many AIs, probably mine too :|
00:34:57  <Samu> oh well
00:35:08  <peter1138> No it won't
00:35:13  <peter1138> Your AI can't build a town there.
00:35:15  <peter1138> Er.r..
00:35:20  <peter1138> Can't build an airport there.
00:35:45  <glx> so getting the town was a useless call anyway
00:35:55  <glx> in this case
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00:36:21  <_dp_> aren't preconditions part of api? I mean needing compat code
00:36:34  <glx> no
00:36:46  <glx> compat code is only for argument change IIRC
00:37:02  <glx> well signature change
00:37:18  <glx> they prevent "compile" failure
00:37:57  <_dp_> glx, ah, so if shit breaks runtime it's ok?
00:38:59  <glx> I think it won't break anything, in this case an AI is looking for a town and probably tries to build an airport there depending on the result
00:39:16  <glx> but building will fail anyway
00:40:22  <glx> so I guess returning TOWN_INVALID and an error is correct
00:40:32  <glx> should not break the AI
00:40:56  <_dp_> you're assuming some stuff about AI here, I'm talking compatibility in general
00:41:01  <_dp_> but whatever, not like I care
00:41:44  <_dp_> just curious for the next time I break something in gs xD
00:41:46  <glx> AI "compilation" is done at runtime
00:42:55  <glx> failing at precondition should not kill the script
00:43:09  <glx> it's not fatal :)
00:46:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc
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00:59:32  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pumazxsaf
00:59:45  <Samu> no more asserts, but then again... no more towns
01:00:09  <peter1138> Wrong place
01:00:44  <Samu> wrong place why?
01:01:32  <Samu> ah, the table it's retrieveing is [0]
01:01:41  <Samu> which airport is 0?
01:01:43  <peter1138> Because you are already testing at that point.
01:01:51  <peter1138> It's airport table layout 0.
01:01:59  <peter1138> For non-NewGRF airports, that's the only one.
01:02:24  <Samu> intercontinental layout is 0?
01:02:27  <Samu> i doubt it
01:02:48  <peter1138> Each airport has its own layouts.
01:02:50  <peter1138> o_O
01:03:04  <glx> and some can have more layouts
01:04:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7429: Codechange: Check airport table would fit within map bounds before iterating tiles. https://git.io/fjTtQ
01:04:21  <peter1138> Maybe that
01:05:02  <peter1138> Okay, that hot chocolate tasted weird. I suspect the milk was off :/
01:05:31  <Samu> that's a lot of code, eww
01:05:38  <Samu> but ok, will test it
01:05:45  <peter1138> It's mostly comments.
01:05:50  <peter1138> But it's also at the right place.
01:07:34  <Samu> airports can rotate?
01:07:39  <Samu> :(
01:08:02  <glx> with newgrf yes
01:08:03  <Samu> ah ya, i remember, there's some newgrf that could rotate
01:08:59  <glx> but AI don't care, they use only the first layout
01:09:23  <Samu> :o
01:10:03  <glx> there's already enough complexity for AIs with newgrf vehicles
01:10:06  <peter1138> Yup. I still test for rotation, in case the first layout is rotated.
01:10:22  <peter1138> Unlikely but you never know.
01:10:36  <glx> yeah don't trust newgrf authors
01:10:46  <glx> we saw that recently ;)
01:11:18  <Samu> oh it's not in master yet t.t
01:11:49  <glx> we never push in master without PR
01:12:44  <Samu> i mean 7429, i was doing git fetch rebase stuff, and it wasn't in
01:13:25  <glx> but you can get the PR locally to test it
01:13:56  <peter1138> I'm fairly sure you were testing PRs earlier :p
01:14:14  <Samu> yes, but i can't mix them :(
01:14:19  <glx> you can
01:14:20  <Samu> they're not mine
01:14:30  <glx> checkout master
01:14:35  <glx> branch test
01:14:44  <glx> merge any PR in test
01:15:22  <Samu> can't make branch on repository that isn't mine
01:15:31  <glx> why would you ?
01:15:40  <Samu> because PR isn't mine
01:15:54  <glx> you can get master PR as branch in your local clone
01:16:27  <peter1138> Now I wonder *how* Samu was testing PRs earlier..
01:16:48  <Samu> i downloaded repository
01:16:52  <peter1138> o_O
01:17:08  <Samu> navigated to your branch, build
01:17:44  <peter1138> I guess that's a fairly brute-force way of doing it.
01:19:14  <peter1138> "git fetch upstream refs/pull/7429/head:7429" creates a local branch of the PR.
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01:20:00  <Samu> https://imgur.com/GOqp9VU
01:20:55  <peter1138> You and your horrible GUIs
01:23:42  <glx> Samu: "git config --global --edit" then paste https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfy8hd19r in the config file, save and close
01:23:55  <glx> will add 3 useful commands to git
01:25:02  <glx> rb to rebase with master, pr to get a PR, pr-clean to remove all retrieved PRs
01:29:05  <glx> some stuff is not easily doable in GUI
01:29:10  <Samu> i prefer to do rebase with visual studio, the diff tool is greater than that of git CLI crap
01:29:46  <glx> "git mergetool" opens winmerge for me
01:29:50  <glx> works well
01:30:10  <glx> 3-way merge
01:30:30  <Samu> my config has some entries already :(
01:30:42  <glx> in alias section ?
01:31:03  <glx> my paste is not a replacement, it's an addition
01:31:08  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pexnsnx62
01:32:06  <glx> hehe you can already do "git mergetool" from CLI to fix the merge in VS ;)
01:32:36  <glx> you can paste at the end of the config file
01:32:40  <glx> no issues
01:34:44  <glx> oh and you should remove the paste, there's your email in it
01:38:13  <Samu> pr to get a pr?
01:38:29  <Samu> how do I use?
01:38:32  <glx> git pr 7429
01:38:47  <Samu> oh, interesting, just that?
01:38:49  <glx> it will create a pr/7429 branch and checkout
01:38:52  <glx> yes
01:39:08  <Samu> i must be on my repository, right?
01:39:14  <glx> yes
01:39:38  <Samu> in master or anywhere else?
01:39:50  <glx> I usually do it in master
01:40:19  <Samu> let's test
01:41:23  <Samu> cool stuff
01:41:45  <Samu> building
01:41:59  <glx> once you get all pr you want via CLI you can do the rest via VS
01:42:18  <glx> create a test branch and merge pr branches into it
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01:55:19  <Samu> triple assert!
01:55:34  <Samu> assert(forall == kdtree && kdtree == kdtper);
01:55:51  <Samu> mixed with 7429, now testing
01:56:04  <glx> of course the result will differ ;)
01:56:18  <Samu> it's being called from the AI
01:59:12  <Samu> ugh, so slow
01:59:24  <Samu> on the 13th January, I'll be done
01:59:36  <Samu> 0.32 frames /s
01:59:54  <glx> still testing on giant map ?
01:59:59  <Samu> yes
02:00:14  <glx> you really should test on smaller maps
02:00:23  <Samu> ok
02:00:36  <glx> will be easier for you
02:00:55  <Samu> testing 64x64, then raising
02:01:14  <glx> only one town in 64x64 usually
02:01:23  <glx> it's very small
02:01:39  <glx> standard is 256x256
02:02:09  <Samu> currently at 512x512, it passed so far
02:03:31  <Samu> 1024x1024 is taking its time...
02:03:59  <Samu> pass!
02:04:32  <Samu> 2048x2048 now
02:06:24  <peter1138> What does "pass" mean?
02:06:34  <Samu> passed the assert
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02:16:05  <Samu_> passed
02:16:20  <Samu_> not sure I wanna test 4096x4096
02:16:26  <Samu_> took 10 minutes for this one
02:16:52  <Samu_> testing
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02:17:58  <Samu_> expecting it to finish in 1 hour
02:19:35  <Samu_> if it passes, then https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7424/files works!
02:29:30  <Samu_> I suppose my while tests aren't needed
02:29:49  <Samu_> you say the gui takes care of it previously
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02:34:03  <SimYouLater> Can someone please explain to me what #ifdef and #endif mean? No, they aren't hashtags.
02:34:34  <Eddi|zuHause> they have conditions, and the code between them is ignored if that condition is false
02:34:52  <glx> and it's checked at compile time
02:35:17  <Eddi|zuHause> SimYouLater: see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_preprocessor
02:35:18  <SimYouLater> Why does pybuild.bat not recognize them?
02:35:39  <SimYouLater> Wait.
02:36:07  <SimYouLater> Are you telling me I need to use both C+ and Python to make Recycled Infrastructure Set?
02:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno what that pybuild is
02:37:26  <Eddi|zuHause> usually you would use cpp (or gcc -E) to combine the .pnml files into .nml
02:37:55  <SimYouLater> All I know is that Nutracks has the only GPL v2 narrow gauge, and it's code uses #ifdef and #endif.
02:38:26  <SimYouLater> I have a make.bat and a pybuild.bat, and I no longer remember exactly why but I know they're used to compile the code..
02:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can do all the condition checking manually
02:38:45  <SimYouLater> ^ should be one period, end of sentence.
02:38:47  <Eddi|zuHause> and remove the #ifdef appropriately
02:39:36  <SimYouLater> Except I am in over my head. I don't know where the conditions are located.
02:40:04  <SimYouLater> I do have the Nutracks source, so if you could point me in the right direction.
02:40:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i ever looked at the nutracks sources
02:40:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but lets start with the words following "#ifdef"
02:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause> (which is now your turn, to tell me)
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02:50:51  <psilynt> Hello. I'm new. That topic is such bait. Is asking to ask to ask a question OK?
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02:51:20  <Eddi|zuHause> ...
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03:02:14  <psilynt> I have two serious questions:
03:02:36  <psilynt> 1) What are some good settings for games with really long trains (20+ wagons)
03:02:51  <psilynt> 2) Is there some patch or config setting to allow smaller stations to load large trains faster?
03:03:42  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a patch which loads trains in a drive-through fashion. load all wagons that fit into the station, drive forward a bit, load more, etc.
03:05:24  <psilynt> name?
03:06:09  <Eddi|zuHause> don't know right now, but it is probably included in JGR patchpack
03:07:34  <psilynt> I use JGR but haven't found it
03:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause> "Freight train through load (added in v0.24.0) This is an alternative loading mode for freight trains for the case where the train is longer then the platform."
03:08:28  <Eddi|zuHause> it'll be in the order list, there is "stop at beginning/middle/end of platform"
03:08:43  <Eddi|zuHause> if you click on that, it will cycle through the options
03:10:20  <Eddi|zuHause> (i don't think i've ever read the first post of the JGR thread before)
03:13:27  <SimYouLater> Eddi: Sorry, got distracted. Here...
03:13:29  <SimYouLater> #ifdef INTROS 		introduces_railtype_list:	[INTROS]; #endif #ifdef REQS 		requires_railtype_list:	[REQS]; #endif
03:13:52  <SimYouLater> That's literally the whole thing, so hopefull it's easy to solve?
03:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, "INTROS" and "REQS" will come from a table somewhere
03:15:03  <Eddi|zuHause> (and that section is probably included repeatedly, with different definitions for "INTROS" and "REQS"
03:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause> )
03:15:49  <glx> probably a #define on top
03:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you will find multiple definitions of "#define INTROS" in some source files that include that file
03:16:35  <glx> or it's passed as -D flags in some makefile
03:16:59  <SimYouLater> Then maybe I can just edit it to have values that make sense? What does introduces_railtype_list do?
03:17:38  <glx> guess it's some intro date
03:17:54  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a list of additional railtypes that will be made available simultaneously
03:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause> (so you don't have to define vehicles for each one)
03:19:00  <glx> but as eddi said, check the files including this one
03:19:35  <glx> they should have #define INTROS ... #include "file"
03:20:09  <SimYouLater> I found it. tt-table-definitions.pnml contains the definitions, I think.
03:22:10  <glx> BTW I don't see why they do it like that ;)
03:22:56  <SimYouLater> ERROR: "src/graphics_NBAN_NBAE.pnml", line 92: Syntax error, unexpected token "RANDOM_LC_YEAR"
03:23:16  <SimYouLater> Because of...
03:23:18  <SimYouLater> RANDOM_LC_YEAR(lc_NBAN_closed_snow_switch,level_crossing_NBAN_closed_snow, level_crossing_NBAN_closed_snow_modern) RANDOM_LC_YEAR(lc_NBAN_open_snow_switch,level_crossing_NBAN_open_snow,     level_crossing_NBAN_open_snow_modern) RANDOM_LC_YEAR(lc_NBAN_closed_switch,level_crossing_NBAN_closed,           level_crossing_NBAN_closed_modern) RANDOM_LC_YEAR(lc_NBAN_open_switch,level_crossing_NBAN_open,               level_crossing_NBAN_open_
03:23:27  <glx> it's a macro
03:24:00  <glx> you want to find #define RANDOM_LC_YEAR
03:24:12  <SimYouLater> I know what a macro is, but not what it's doing in a pnml file.
03:24:25  <glx> it's for the preprocessor
03:24:30  <SimYouLater> Ah.
03:24:36  <glx> like #ifdef stuff
03:25:25  <glx> .pnml once preprocessed become .nml I think
03:25:40  <psilynt> OK, the load-through option works amazing. I didn't see that. Thanks.
03:26:44  <SimYouLater> +glx: Don't worry, I at least know what pnml files are for.
03:28:02  <SimYouLater> I can't seem to find the rest of the macro. How do I replace RANDOM_LC_YEAR with something I can work with?
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03:32:31  <SimYouLater> No one knows how to un-macro-ize RANDOM_LC_YEAR?
03:32:53  <SimYouLater> Should I provide the code?
03:33:12  <SimYouLater> Since you're probably trying to help me blind.
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03:34:34  <SimYouLater> Stupid internet cut out.
03:34:41  <SimYouLater> Did I miss anything?
03:35:25  <psilynt> no
03:40:45  <SimYouLater> ERROR: "src/graphics_NBAN_NBAE.pnml", line 15: Encountered unknown template identifier: tmpl_tunnel_tracks
03:41:15  <SimYouLater> Not sure where to look to give it what it's looking for
03:41:32  <Samu_> yes! it finished!
03:41:39  <SimYouLater> ?
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03:41:55  <SimYouLater> What is it, Samu?
03:42:29  <Samu_> took 1h14m to iterate every tile
03:42:34  <Samu_> 1h25m
03:42:53  <Samu_> passed!
03:42:54  <SimYouLater> Like, map size?
03:43:08  <SimYouLater> Or something else?
03:43:46  <Samu_> 4096x4096, 13k towns, getting closest town when placing intercontinental airport
03:44:12  <Samu_> no errors
03:44:23  <Samu_> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7429/files works!
03:44:36  <Samu_> now I'm off to bed, cyas
03:45:18  <Samu_> i meant to say 7424 + 7429
03:45:36  <Samu_> k now cyas
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04:00:09  <SimYouLater> ERROR: "src/graphics_NBAN_NBAE.pnml", line 92: Unrecognized identifier 'lc_NBAN_closed_snow_switch' encountered
04:00:57  <SimYouLater> I can't remove the section... and I can't use it as-is.
04:01:15  <SimYouLater> RANDOM_LC_YEAR will have to wait, then.
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07:16:36  <peter1138> Hmm, crash on removing a station.
07:21:05  <peter1138> Bisect I guess :(
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08:37:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhGxd
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08:42:04  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhGxd
08:45:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhGxd
08:57:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhGxd
09:03:24  <peter1138> Caused by aa7ca7fe6
09:19:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fjTcJ
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13:40:18  <andythenorth> is cat?
13:41:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened issue #7430: Vehicle waiting at station affects cargo age rating even if it did not pick up cargo https://git.io/fjT4D
13:43:22  <peter1138> tac si? taxi?
13:43:39  <andythenorth> I love that issue
13:43:52  <andythenorth> some things in ottd are just a bit brainfuck eh :)
13:44:37  <peter1138> nielsmh asked them to report it.
13:44:47  <peter1138> But they didn't. They wanted to "understand" it.
13:46:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on issue #7430: Vehicle waiting at station affects cargo age rating even if it did not pick up cargo https://git.io/fjTBe
13:46:33  <peter1138> What's a piglet anyway?
13:51:51  <andythenorth> peter1138: https://www.transporttycoon.net/other2
13:52:15  <andythenorth> hmm wrong link
13:52:17  <peter1138> Ah the "legitimate" exploitation.
13:52:19  <andythenorth> piglet is an exploit
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13:52:47  <peter1138> Update rating on final delivery? o_O
13:53:34  <peter1138> Thing is, with the piglet, that's kinda how the rating works.
13:54:08  <andythenorth> [shrug] emoji
13:54:17  <andythenorth> station rating is never a thing I pay attention to
13:54:20  <peter1138> Me too.
13:55:26  <Romazoon> Hi, i see the "fake" piglet issue made it s way to bugtracker, is that really that important to fix ? i mean why can t we stick to don t use it if you don t want to use it ?
13:56:29  <Romazoon> vehicle with full load orders where always a way to boost ratings, won t it be affected by changing the way cargo pick up affects rating ?
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13:57:53  <_dp_> peter1138, you'll soon "fix" all the stuff on our "advanced tricks" page that way xD
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14:01:52  <Romazoon> also, just want to point out that, if a vehicle that don t has anything to load do not affect station rating i think it might cause some other issues like when cargodist is not in use ? an airport easily get higher ratings due to the max speed of the planes, but why should we penalise the rating of that station in the case only busses managed to pick up some passenger. The ratings are a way to get more cargoes but i find that t
14:04:59  <Romazoon> also a train stations with plenty of trains (deserving good ratings because maybe all those trains allow you to go many different place, i know the rating mecanism don t care of that but with plenty of train you insure an high frequency, now if there is very few cargo to pick up, you don t get any boost on ratings thanks to high frequency
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14:05:29  <LordAro> sounds like something we should ask for feedback for in the monthly dev post!
14:12:36  <peter1138> Romazoon, I figured as much.
14:12:58  <peter1138> The "we don't want to report it because it might get fixed" attitude.
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14:16:45  <andythenorth> is that a recognised pattern? :P
14:16:50  <andythenorth> does it have a name?
14:16:52  <peter1138> Apparently :p
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14:19:08  <Samu> hi
14:19:09  <peter1138> And no, "don't use the cheat if you don't want to cheat" isn't really acceptable.
14:19:16  <peter1138> Not in multiplayer.
14:19:28  <peter1138> s/cheat/exploit/
14:19:32  <peter1138> Hi Samu.
14:19:42  <peter1138> I still don't know what you were testing last night.
14:21:10  <Samu> comparing FOR_ALL_TOWNS vs Kdtree vs Kdtree (only perimeter)
14:21:28  <peter1138> Ahh
14:21:29  <Samu> asserting the results
14:21:48  <peter1138> Ok, I somehow had it in my head that one of my PRs was being tested as well, hence the confusion :-)
14:22:01  <Samu> it was
14:22:04  <peter1138> Oh.
14:22:11  <peter1138> With my map bounds check?
14:22:14  <Samu> 7429
14:22:15  <Samu> yes
14:22:32  <peter1138> If you do that, then you don't need the 2 loops at the beginning searching for valid tiles
14:22:37  <peter1138> (Those loops are wrong anyway)
14:22:47  <Samu> the while loops?
14:22:49  <Samu> ok removing
14:22:50  <peter1138> Yes
14:23:18  <peter1138> with 7429 the bounds have been checked already
14:24:00  <peter1138> You could add an assert but you'd also have to take account of rotation as well.
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14:24:59  <peter1138> I still wonder if just checking the corners would be even simpler.
14:25:21  <peter1138> The distance would be ever so slightly off in the case of a missing corner tile, but otherwise hardly any difference.
14:25:38  <Samu> i could try that
14:25:58  <peter1138> Maybe there will be some weird layout in the future where that doesn't work, but in that case just checking perimeter would likely fail.
14:26:11  <peter1138> And then again nobody even knows about newgrf airports :)
14:27:03  <Eddi|zuHause> drawing general conclusions from yourself again? :p
14:27:40  <Eddi|zuHause> so... i had an external HDD... but it isn't in the place where i remember last putting it...
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14:30:21  <andythenorth> it will be where you look last
14:30:31  <andythenorth> so just stop looking and you'll find it, right?
14:30:36  <andythenorth> language is weird :P
14:32:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i tried that. isn't working.
14:32:03  <Romazoon> Peter, i kinda agree in multiplayer it s not so great, it gives work to server admin to make sure people don t use it. But it s already the case with station spread abuse.
14:33:27  <Samu> question: is if (Town::GetNumItems() == 0) test needed?
14:33:47  <peter1138> Romazoon, station spread has a game setting to reduce it.
14:33:55  <peter1138> Romazoon, two settings, actually.
14:33:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i found it... it was near where i was expecting it to be, just slid between other things
14:34:09  <Romazoon> and like Mczapkie pointed, there is a simple way around that setting
14:34:51  <Romazoon> spread the station while they are attached, then remove the tiles in between the main station tile and the spread abuse tile
14:34:58  <peter1138> Samu, I think it could be an assert().
14:35:06  <Samu> ok
14:35:25  <peter1138> Hmm, hang on
14:35:44  <Samu> assert(Town::GetNumItems() != 0);
14:36:03  <Samu> > 0
14:36:45  <peter1138> Yes, an assert.
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14:37:06  <peter1138> The existing code will return NULL if there's no towns, but the calling code does not check for a NULL return, so will crash anyway.
14:37:56  <peter1138> (they all dereference it )
14:38:34  <peter1138> Romazoon, yes of course. But "Because there are multiple ways to exploit things, we should leave any exploits in" does not hold with me.
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14:40:44  <Romazoon> Peter, i agree on that. I just don t want that ottd developers loose time fixing a behavior that is in my opinion totally acceptable. If yu had played on Mczapkie servers you would know that he is looking to make the game "very very hard...and development of companies extremely slow". i think that s the only thing that changing that behavior will achieve. is it worth developers time ? i don t think so (imho)
14:41:34  <Romazoon> rating are quite smart if you ask me : as i pointed on the tt forum, if a station get too much cargo waiting because of the 'fake' piglet, rating will go down.
14:41:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you should worry about developer time
14:41:55  <Romazoon> piglet cost money : i see that as an investment to upgrade a station
14:41:57  <_dp_> peter1138, thing is, it would've been nice if it was fixed before it became mainstream :p
14:42:10  <_dp_> peter1138, like 5-10 years ago when it was likely first reported :p
14:42:30  <Eddi|zuHause> more like 15 :p
14:42:35  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7424: Add: Kdtree for AirportGetNearestTown https://git.io/fjU1d
14:42:52  <_dp_> peter1138, though whatever you do with loading is probably gonna be ok imo
14:42:56  <peter1138> _dp_, yeah but nobody reported it!
14:43:06  <peter1138> Or it was buried, maybe.
14:43:07  <Romazoon> Eddi, developpers time is not mine, and it s seems to be a limited ressource, sorry to care about that ;)
14:43:19  <Samu> about the rotation thing...
14:43:30  <Samu> i dunno how to fix that
14:44:48  <Romazoon> for me that rating problem is not a problem. but i m all open to others opinion, after all i d be totally ok with the way to go via a 'setting' to turn on or off that behavior
14:45:20  <peter1138> Samu, i don't know if it needs fixing.
14:45:26  <Samu> now gonna test corners
14:45:29  <Eddi|zuHause> my favourite approach so far was a setting in FIRS: "make rating 100% always"
14:45:41  <peter1138> :)
14:46:18  <peter1138> Romazoon, "i don't mind that rating is broken" is not really valid.
14:46:31  <Romazoon> eddi, i like it too ! especially for the oil platform with neutral station....now it s barely possible to get high ratings (unless you terraform and use some maglev station next to oil platform)
14:46:43  <Romazoon> it s even a serious problem for ECS
14:46:46  <peter1138> Samu, it'll be wrong for airports with missing corners, I think.
14:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Romazoon: we "fixed" the maglev station thing, as far as i followed :p
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14:47:22  <Samu> there are airports with missing corners already? :(
14:47:28  <peter1138> And also for a very large airport, possible wrong for towns half-way down a side.
14:47:31  <peter1138> Yes.
14:47:36  <Romazoon> rating are not broken ! if a station have plenty of vehicles stopping by it, it should get higher ratings, it doesn t matter if there is somthing to load or not
14:47:41  <Samu> no way
14:47:46  <Samu> omg
14:48:04  <Eddi|zuHause> we didn't say "broken", we said "exploit"...
14:48:11  <peter1138> I said broken, sorry.
14:48:15  <Samu> newgrf airports? or vanilla?
14:48:22  <peter1138> Vanilla.
14:48:24  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, maybe i was too quick on that :p
14:48:27  <Samu> :(
14:48:35  <peter1138> Anyway station rating and station cargo rating are two different things.
14:49:05  <peter1138> Samu, tell me about it. I'm still mad that we ever added the extra layouts rather than deferring to newgrf.
14:49:18  <Romazoon> eddi, i mean to get high level of production with ECS i think it s needed to reach 80% of station ratings (or 80% of the oil taken from oil platform), what else than a maglev oil train can reach that rating ?
14:49:29  <_dp_> Romazoon, and who's changing that?
14:49:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Romazoon: there's two ways to "fix" an exploit: a) "nerf" it, meaning you can't do it anymore, or b) making it "official" and redundant
14:49:48  <_dp_> as I understand issue is with vehicles that can't load anything still bumping rating
14:49:57  <peter1138> ^^
14:50:16  <Romazoon> dp : the future behavior apparently want to make station rating no going up if a vehicle arrives and find nothing to load
14:50:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Romazoon: but how is that a problem? an industry will frequently produce something, that can be loaded
14:51:23  <Romazoon> so in a small town, if i set plenty of trains only the one actually picking up something will up the ratings, maybe it will be the slowest train and so rating boost will be low
14:51:33  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, that actually could've been a problem. e.g. with seasonal industries like fruit plantations
14:51:48  <Samu> if ((TileX(cur_tile) == it_x || TileX(cur_tile) == max_it_x) && (TileY(cur_tile) == it_y || TileY(cur_tile) == max_it_y)) {
14:51:55  <Samu> i hope these are the corners
14:51:56  <peter1138> Romazoon, nope. I was only considering touching the time_since_pickup variable.
14:52:04  <peter1138> Not the vehicle speed/age/whatever stuff.
14:52:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so maybe: station rating lowers, when cargo is moved to station, but nothing there to pick it up?
14:52:25  <supermop_work_> rating my linkgraph would be cool
14:52:38  <supermop_work_> as would town growth by link graph
14:52:43  <supermop_work_> *by
14:52:52  <Eddi|zuHause> no cargo at station means no rating change
14:52:53  <supermop_work_> does that already exist?
14:53:01  <Eddi|zuHause> (up or down)
14:53:01  <peter1138> This is just about vehicles sitting on a station and waiting and waiting and waiting and not loading because they're full, but not leaving because they are told not to leave yet.
14:53:17  <supermop_work_> eg can get to 20 towns from here = good rating
14:53:25  <peter1138> supermop_work_, Oh, I was looking for a "rate my linkgraph" website  :p
14:53:48  <peter1138> NewStationCargoRating!
14:53:52  <supermop_work_> takes 10 intermediate stops to get to a nearby big destination = less good
14:53:57  <peter1138> I've not done that for a long time.
14:54:00  <_dp_> peter1138, another option is when already full vehicle arrives at the station
14:54:20  <peter1138> In the bug report I list a couple of options.
14:54:23  <Romazoon> peter, ok for no change on th vehicle speed/age/whatever, i m less worrying already
14:54:41  <andythenorth> ahem
14:54:43  <peter1138> Like only reseting it once per vehicle.
14:54:46  <andythenorth> newgrf station  rating? o_O
14:54:48  <andythenorth> srsly
14:54:54  <peter1138> andythenorth, no, not NewGRF.
14:55:02  <peter1138> Although is that a thing? Probably is it.
14:55:06  <andythenorth> yes it's a thing
14:55:07  <peter1138> ... it is
14:55:08  <andythenorth> it works
14:55:09  <peter1138> Hah
14:55:14  <andythenorth> content-ish station ratings
14:55:18  <andythenorth> make everything content
14:55:27  <andythenorth> and make the non-content vanilla defaults Not Shit ®
14:55:29  <_dp_> peter1138, no, not once, you need to constantly update it if there is no cargo on station
14:55:32  <supermop_work_> i tried a (Polish?) GS once that tried to make growth dependent on passenger connections
14:55:40  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc the industry newgrf can change ratings, but not the station newgrf
14:55:48  <Romazoon> once per vehicle sound a good way to no t break the 'seasonal industries'...when player don t use full load
14:55:57  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: let me introduce you to a new concept
14:56:00  <andythenorth> mixed grfs :P
14:56:04  <peter1138> _dp_, so that rating goes up, otherwise it never will, right?
14:56:24  <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Custom_station_rating_calculation_.28145.29
14:56:34  <_dp_> peter1138, yeah, would be a pity to loose acceptance while train is waiting for cargo ;)
14:56:40  <supermop_work_> andythenorth: i do feel that stations that are major nodes, even if few people ever board or alight there should get good ratings
14:56:45  <peter1138> _dp_, at least, that is what i gathered about the original bugfix.
14:56:49  <andythenorth> make a newgrf for that supermop_work_
14:57:06  <andythenorth> I mean., obviously everything is broken with cdist
14:57:06  <supermop_work_> though if every train that pulls in is already full then yes, i get why it should have a bad rating
14:57:09  <andythenorth> but that's because cdist is broken
14:57:16  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing good ever came out of a sentence starting with "To understand how to use it, you must first understand"
14:57:18  <andythenorth> I love cdist, but it is broken
14:57:31  <supermop_work_> i won't ever play without it
14:58:25  <Romazoon> i also can t play without CD (for passengers and mail), but i just never use it for freight (too broken)
14:58:26  <_dp_> also it's always possible to build station and send trains before building an industry
14:58:29  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_work_: the problem with "you must deliver X destinations for good ratings" was industry newgrfs that have overly strict reactions to low ratings (ECS)
14:59:00  <Eddi|zuHause> also, finding out the number of valid destinations is nontrivial
14:59:38  <andythenorth> is cdist broken for freight? :P
14:59:55  <FLHerne> Mostly it works fairly well
14:59:55  * andythenorth just uses a distorted play style to account for  it
15:00:04  <Samu> just tested the corners
15:00:07  <Samu> it asserted
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15:00:10  <Samu> RIP corners
15:00:11  <andythenorth> - never more then 2 destinations from one pickup station
15:00:19  <FLHerne> It's broken for supplies, because it doesn't understand the industries' demand levels
15:00:22  <andythenorth> - always set 'do not load' orders at destination
15:00:33  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, it's also goal-related. e.g. it makes no sense to require x destinations in cb where everything goes to one city
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15:01:03  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Where's the fun in that? :P
15:01:12  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: well, that could be tuned
15:01:50  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, also easily exploitable with multiple stations per destination xD
15:01:56  <FLHerne> Overcomplicated systems based on autorefit between several cargoes in both directions are !FUN!
15:02:09  <andythenorth> autorefit doesn't really work
15:02:09  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: freight cdist is not broken, but the global "distance bias" is interfering, because for freight you want it low, but for passengers high
15:02:31  <andythenorth> the inability to serve a 3rd destination from a station is pretty broken
15:02:38  <Eddi|zuHause> autorefit works, but you need to jump-start it
15:02:44  <andythenorth> yes
15:02:50  <FLHerne> Actually, my current game isn't too absurd
15:03:02  <Romazoon> so the simple solution would beto make vehicles that are already full or just became full to have no effect on the last cargo picked rating
15:03:04  <Eddi|zuHause> generally, starting new lines can be a bit tricky with cdist
15:03:09  <andythenorth> yes
15:03:18  <FLHerne> I've got a few lines where sand/stone/coal all share the same trains for a leg
15:03:21  <andythenorth> it's inevitable, with the current approach
15:03:31  <andythenorth> not sure how it could be fixed
15:03:37  <nielsm> the big issue with cdist is that it does not model demand
15:03:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Romazoon: that doesn't cover the variant involving cdist, where the vehicle never loads anything because it doesn't serve a link
15:03:45  <nielsm> but invents demand based on supply
15:03:52  <andythenorth> nielsm: that's not an issue, that's by design :)
15:04:07  <FLHerne> And one where trains drop about half their wood to a sawmill, then pick up the corresponding timber, then drop the other wood at a paper mill and the timber at a yard
15:04:10  <supermop_work_> Romazoon: i actually don't mind cdist with firs
15:04:25  <supermop_work_> it's never really bothered me that much
15:04:31  <andythenorth> the big misnomer about cdist is that it provides destinations for cargos
15:04:35  <Romazoon> Eddi, but why that would be an exploit, people doing that (me) are paying for the running cost of said vehicle
15:04:41  <andythenorth> clue is in the name though, it's not destinations
15:04:44  <FLHerne> One tiny shuttle between docks and an industrial plant that carries pretty much everything in both directions
15:05:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Romazoon: because those running costs are negligible
15:05:44  <FLHerne> Oh, and lots of trains that carry fruit/goods/whatever in one direction and supplies in the other
15:05:49  <Eddi|zuHause> (and nobody cares about the company rating for minimum vehicle profit)
15:06:14  <Romazoon> eddi, true, cargodist broke that company rating XD
15:06:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Romazoon: no, that was "broken" long before...
15:06:50  <Romazoon> you are right, transfert were already a thing before
15:06:52  <supermop_work_> for what it's worth, when i go to a subway station and have to wait for 2 trains to go by in rush hour because they are full
15:07:04  <supermop_work_> i have a bad rating of that station in my mind
15:07:16  <Romazoon> i agree on that supermop
15:07:27  <supermop_work_> and i may next time chose a different station where i am more likely able to board
15:08:00  <supermop_work_> similarly, on the lexington avenue line (most crowded line here), in the evening rush hour
15:08:02  <Eddi|zuHause> Romazoon: it's also "broken" without transfers. like almost never you can have road vehicles meeting that barrier, whereas trains is trivial. and ships taking more than a year for a roundtrip
15:08:57  <supermop_work_> downtown local trains often skip 28th, 23rd, and astor place stations, because they are too full and dont wan't to mess up the tight headway
15:09:05  <Romazoon> i see my 'fake piglet' as machinery that equip the station. And so i find that it make sense to boost rating in those case. I mean a company would probably prefer a station that has a forklift to load it s train than a station that let the company to deal with the laoding of freight (i mention forklift cause that often what i use)
15:09:35  <supermop_work_> so if you are waiting at 28th street, you are pissed (bad rating). and might walk instead to 33rd(better rating)
15:11:01  <supermop_work_> Eddi|zuHause: in the past i have occasionally had a lonely overland truck duplicate a train or ship route just to keep a link active
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15:12:00  <Alberth> o/
15:12:06  <supermop_work_> yo Alberth
15:12:25  <peter1138> Samu, yeah I figured it would not give the same results.
15:12:49  <peter1138> Just perimeter will work mostly unless it's a strange layout which probably doesn't exist (yet)
15:13:03  <Romazoon> Eddi, ok so minimum profit per vehicle is broken, is it on the bug list ? or is there any plan to fix that ? (an personally i never had that problem, back in the days of TTD i was taking that as a challenge and would modify my bus route if it would not achieve the profit to get max company rating
15:13:07  <peter1138> Samu, on the other hand, maybe it's not wrong, just different? ;)
15:13:35  <peter1138> Romazoon, the bug list is searchable.
15:14:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Romazoon: back in my TT days, i didn't even know how that rating was calculated. the detailed rating window did not exist
15:14:16  <Romazoon> now, i just don t care of company rating alltogether, i grew up and play for having nice and working large network
15:14:41  <peter1138> nielsm, yeah... i think simutrans did it differently.
15:15:07  <peter1138> nielsm, industries had explicit destinations already, regardless of routes.
15:15:10  <Romazoon> back in the TTD days i guess i played long enough to figure it out somehow
15:15:18  <peter1138> nielsm, so if you just randomly hooked things up you'd not get anywhere.
15:15:37  <peter1138> But that is the difference between cargo*dest* and cargo*dist*
15:16:39  <Romazoon> YACD was very interesting for OTTD, it just could not cope with a map like Cindini.
15:17:09  <Eddi|zuHause> YACD was a performance bottleneck waiting to happen
15:17:18  <Romazoon> and cargodist while it has default, once you have a huge network, it kinda do exactly what YACD was doing
15:17:34  <Romazoon> except for freight
15:17:42  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yeah but *my* computer got faster since then ;)
15:17:53  <peter1138> Should I have a chocolate bar or a kiwifruit?
15:18:01  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: now try YACD on a 4096^2 map :p
15:18:15  <Romazoon> i vote kiwifruit
15:18:20  <peter1138> I don't know where to find YACD these days :(
15:18:34  <peter1138> Romazoon, probaby sensible, the chocolate will still be there tomorrow...
15:18:39  <peter1138> And the cake...
15:19:09  <peter1138> My snack draw is terrible. The only thing that saves it is that all that stuff is still in it, rather than having been eaten.
15:19:10  <Romazoon> :)
15:20:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i still have a yacd checkout
15:20:48  <peter1138> https://imgur.com/MqjQ4Cl < oh wow, Oct 2014. I've still have that save, been play testing with it...
15:21:07  <peter1138> I probably don't have that scaler patch any more.
15:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause> "fatal: unable to access 'http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/yacd.git/': The requested URL returned error: 403"
15:21:22  <peter1138> It's certainly an... interesting effect.
15:22:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it reminds me of the days of MiniIN with the double zoom filters
15:24:17  <peter1138> Chocolate coated kiwifruit?
15:26:03  <andythenorth> YACD was so good
15:26:08  <andythenorth> really fricking awesome
15:26:23  <andythenorth> I didn't have the 'it eats CPU' problem
15:26:34  <andythenorth> probably because I don't play idiot-sized maps
15:26:51  <andythenorth> why is openttd distorted by demands from people who have no taste? :(
15:27:00  <andythenorth> it stops us making it nice
15:27:09  <andythenorth> peter1138: drawer not draw :P
15:28:14  <peter1138> Heh
15:28:37  <peter1138> Yes, I... lazied it.
15:29:11  <Romazoon> i m an idiot with no taste. Yet i m having lot of fun playing ottd, thank you :P
15:30:28  <peter1138> andythenorth, okay, how do we bring back YACD, bearing in mind that CargoDist exists.
15:30:46  <peter1138> I was told it was possible to build it on top of cargodist, at the time.
15:30:49  <peter1138> But nobody did :/
15:31:00  <Romazoon> and to be honest, i only play idiot sized map on multiplayer, so when there is enough idiots to play with me xD
15:31:45  <andythenorth> peter1138: NFI, fork it, remove cdist?
15:31:52  <andythenorth> fragment the community?
15:31:56  <peter1138> :/
15:32:12  <andythenorth> to be completely fair to fonso, I don't hate cdist, it's really added something to the game
15:32:16  <andythenorth> it's just not YACD
15:32:22  <andythenorth> and YACD wasn't viable at the time
15:32:23  <andythenorth> so eh
15:32:50  <peter1138> yet simutrans has it ;)
15:33:00  <Romazoon> we should have cardodist for passenger and mail (because once you have a big network it kinda work the same as YACD), and YACD for freight/indutries
15:33:00  <peter1138> Maybe it just needed k-d trees.
15:33:08  <andythenorth> k-d trees for all
15:33:18  <andythenorth> michi_cc would know more what the problem was
15:33:33  <andythenorth> iirc, it was because packets are tracked individually, not statistically, but I might be wrong
15:34:16  <Eddi|zuHause> we need to rewrite the game loop so things like vehicles and cargopackets can be concurrent
15:34:38  <peter1138> They are intertwined...
15:34:47  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, we need to cut those
15:35:29  <Eddi|zuHause> vehicles must be able to move independently from each other
15:35:34  <peter1138> Hahaha
15:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it works in the real world :p
15:35:59  <peter1138> A thread for each vehicle :D
15:36:15  <andythenorth> can we offload it to cloud lambdas?
15:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that is feasible :p
15:36:29  <Eddi|zuHause> microthreads!
15:36:37  <peter1138> Okay so you need to break out cargo loading from the vehicle loops.
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15:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> just because you design it to be concurrent doesn't mean it must run in parallel
15:36:51  <andythenorth> now it gets interesting
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15:37:08  <peter1138> And cargo unloading, I guess.
15:37:22  <peter1138> But once you do that, what's left of the vehicle loops? Just a bit of movement really.
15:37:41  <peter1138> Oh yeah, pathfinding :)
15:42:56  <Samu> there's still something I wanna test
15:43:05  <Samu> different airport types!
15:43:13  <Samu> I only tested intercontinental
15:49:05  <peter1138> I suppose you could run vehicle types separately, except for level crossings.
15:49:18  <peter1138> But probably most games only have tons of trains and not much else :p
15:49:34  <peter1138> Split per company? :p
15:53:30  <_dp_> ha, looks like I'm not the only one with too many idle cores :p
15:53:38  <Eddi|zuHause> split per company doesn't make a lot of sense, you still have interdependencies, especially RV, and you just kill infra sharing for no benefit
15:54:00  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pzgax6cjj
15:54:17  <Samu> if I waited 1h25m yesterday, how much am i gonna wait now?
15:55:41  <peter1138> Do it on a small map.
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16:20:43  <Samu> I added some % so that I dont get bored quickly
16:20:45  <Samu> https://imgur.com/xjEEuB8
16:21:08  <Samu> 1024x1024 and below have passed the test
16:21:18  <Samu> waiting for these two, 2048x2048
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16:41:58  <Samu> while this is running, im gonna play patch of exile
16:45:10  <peter1138> Samu, oh, I was wrong, none of the default airports have missing tiles.
16:45:43  <peter1138> I thought the intercontinental did, but it's just a bare airport tile visible as grass.
16:47:06  <peter1138> It is a missing tile in the OpenGFX+ airports version of it, though.
16:47:43  <Samu> oh, hi
16:47:52  <Samu> ah
16:48:02  <Samu> im not testing opengfx :(
16:48:18  <Samu> patch of exile is patching... typical
16:48:22  <Samu> so im back
16:49:06  <Samu> should I test opengfx+?
16:51:18  <peter1138> Hah
16:51:20  <peter1138> No?
16:51:25  <peter1138> I dunno, maybe.
16:51:34  <Samu> ok
16:51:56  <peter1138> Test the opengfx+ intercontinental :)
16:52:01  <peter1138> It has one corner missing.
16:52:13  <Samu> im gonna assume intercontinental is still 7
16:52:31  <Samu> enum type thing
16:53:48  <peter1138> I would not assume.
16:54:02  <peter1138> They may be APIs to query but I dunno
16:54:04  <peter1138> *there
16:54:39  <Samu> I dont think there is
16:54:52  <Samu> there's AIAirport.INTER_CON things
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16:55:19  <Samu> AIAirport.AT_INTERCON
16:57:00  <peter1138> NewGRFs can add more airports, so...
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16:57:46  <Samu> testing
16:59:31  <Samu> for this test I know I'm gonna have to wait 1h25m or less if it asserts
16:59:49  <Samu> cpu usage 51%, I can still play poe
17:02:39  <Samu> it's funny
17:03:00  <Samu> if i were on the i5-2500, this would mean 100% cpu usage, could no longer play poe
17:03:08  <Samu> AMD wins
17:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause> so my yacd checkout, how would i move that over to the new git?
17:08:41  <nielsm> with a lot of effort
17:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently i also have a daylength patch applied on top of it :)
17:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> can i export stuff as like a patch queue?
17:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> so i export all stuff from the last common trunk revision, check out that revision in the new git, and reapply it?
17:10:43  <nielsm> if the old code is also in git, I guess you'd add the new repos as a remote to the old, rebase the patch onto the matching base revision from the new repos, and then carefully bring the code up to present HEAD
17:10:47  <nielsm> maybe in small steps
17:11:04  <Eddi|zuHause> let's ignore the rebase to head for now
17:11:04  <Samu> 2048x2048 test finished
17:11:16  <Samu> that test was testing all vanilla airports on all tiles
17:11:30  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a problem that the old git mirror and the new git have unrelated revisions that are essentially the same
17:11:31  <Samu> about 3k towns
17:11:35  <Samu> no errors
17:11:54  <Eddi|zuHause> the old code is in a git repo
17:12:02  <Eddi|zuHause> but one based on the old mirror
17:12:38  <nielsm> yeah
17:12:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i would need to teach it that those are the same
17:12:51  <nielsm> you want to use "git rebase --onto"
17:13:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so, in the old repo, i fetch from the new git?
17:13:39  <nielsm> which likely requires three revision hashes, starting point of old branch, end point of series you want to move, and destination revision
17:13:54  <Samu> https://servers.openttd.org/en/server/114360 server name doesn't fit?
17:13:55  <nielsm> yeah add the new repo as a new remote to the old
17:14:22  <nielsm> or do it the other way around
17:14:30  <nielsm> add the old repo as a remote in the new
17:14:48  <nielsm> the important part is getting both histories available in a single repo
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17:18:28  <Samu> speaking of names that don't fit... https://imgur.com/0NpVFKw
17:18:32  <Eddi|zuHause> so, last common revision is r22439
17:18:47  <Samu> server address doesn't fit
17:19:06  <Samu> server name on the right in orange, doesn't fit
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17:21:05  <Eddi|zuHause> which in our current timeline is b7c6424104e6261599a00f81e7e2aa1754454a18
17:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so i now git rebase --onto b7c6424104e6261599a00f81e7e2aa1754454a18?
17:21:25  <nielsm> yeah
17:21:33  <nielsm> and you need one or two revision names more
17:21:38  <nielsm> from the old branch
17:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
17:22:03  <nielsm> start and end revision you want to rebase from
17:22:08  <Eddi|zuHause> ??
17:22:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what you're saying
17:22:53  <nielsm> I barely remember this either
17:23:00  <nielsm> did it twice or so last year
17:23:41  <nielsm> but rebase --onto with just the destination revision is going to do the wrong thing
17:27:45  <nielsm> https://0x0.st/zKnj.png
17:28:15  <nielsm> you want to name three revisions on the rebase --onto commandline
17:28:18  <Eddi|zuHause> but where would i put those things into a command line?
17:28:25  <nielsm> read the docs?
17:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm trying
17:28:41  <Eddi|zuHause> not finding the right info
17:29:16  <Eddi|zuHause> "git help rebase" seems to suggest just "rebase" should do it
17:29:37  <Eddi|zuHause> but it gives only a simple example there
17:30:50  <nielsm> revised: https://0x0.st/zKn2.png
17:33:28  <Samu> lines!
17:33:41  <Samu> that's how my brain interprets that
17:34:25  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i think just plain rebase worked
17:36:18  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, git has somewhere stored wrong login/password pair
17:36:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't know where that is stored to delete it
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17:39:08  <nielsm> https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2/Git-Tools-Credential-Storage
17:39:28  <nielsm> actually that looks like the wrong thing
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17:39:47  <nielsm> how you configure a system to manage credentials
17:40:10  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references. https://git.io/fjTgY
17:42:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7431: Fix aa7ca7fe6: Linkgraph node index order must be maintained due to other references. https://git.io/fjTgn
17:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause> bah... i can't find it
17:46:16  <peter1138> Hmm, I guess it's not impossible that ca2f33c6d needs more eyes.
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17:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> what's ca2f33c6d?
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17:52:43  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, it might be broken
17:53:55  <peter1138> old erase did a swap & pop from the end
17:54:08  <peter1138> std::vector erase shifts all the elements down
17:54:30  <peter1138> so #7431 fixes one occurrence that definitely mattered.
17:54:54  <peter1138> I think this other commit is okay.
17:55:33  <peter1138> Although I haven't looked at the SmallMap callers.
17:56:13  <peter1138> All checks passed, woo :D
17:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> "This branch is 66 commits ahead, 5899 commits behind OpenTTD:master. "
17:59:11  <peter1138> heh
17:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> where can i view history on github?
17:59:39  <peter1138> "commits"
17:59:51  <peter1138> It's pretty shit.
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18:00:35  <Eddi|zuHause> it seems to look right
18:00:54  <peter1138> I'm getting used to 'tig' but gitg is okay.
18:02:07  <peter1138> Oh, does NML need to be updated for those new variables?
18:02:31  <Eddi|zuHause> probably
18:02:38  <peter1138> Hmm, and I guess newgrf-specs wiki
18:03:28  <Eddi|zuHause> https://github.com/Eddi-z/OpenTTD/tree/yacd now, should we try rebasing? :p
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18:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause> this is based on yacd 2.2, dunno if there was a newer version
18:05:48  <peter1138> Well it's going to go horribly wrong at cargodist, certainly.
18:06:18  <peter1138> 2.3 was released.
18:06:35  <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't have that
18:08:37  <Eddi|zuHause> can you "bisect" a rebase? like "try rebasing over X revisions, if no errors, continue"?
18:08:58  <nielsm> I don't think there's anything built in to do that
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18:18:13  * peter1138 fiddles
18:18:48  <andythenorth> hmm FIRS
18:19:30  <andythenorth> time for the test game
18:19:43  <andythenorth> which inevitably ends after 7 years when I discover some horrible FIRS bug :P
18:19:55  <andythenorth> if only there was a way to short cut that part :P
18:20:08  <peter1138> AIs + fast-forward.
18:20:15  <andythenorth> 15 AIs or 16? o_O
18:20:23  <peter1138> Well now!
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18:21:11  <andythenorth> pikka hasn't done much industry stuff in Civil AI yet
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18:21:55  <Wolf01> o/
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18:24:20  <andythenorth> lo Wolf01
18:24:53  <andythenorth> anyone played Villages is Villages?
18:25:20  <andythenorth> https://github.com/mattkimber/openttd_villages_is_villages
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18:32:40  <Wolf01> fillLeft("supermop_work", "_", random()) fix your connection :P
18:34:27  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you mean, you want to just have the horrible bugs, and not play a game?
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18:37:01  <supermop_work_> andythenorth: ive played a lot of viv
18:37:09  <andythenorth> is it good?
18:37:19  <supermop_work_> yeah
18:37:27  <supermop_work_> if that's waht you want
18:37:37  <supermop_work_> if certainly does what it says on the tin
18:37:44  <andythenorth> I want GS with some kind of narrative
18:38:06  <peter1138> I've loaded it, but wasn't sure what I was meant to do
18:38:26  <andythenorth> I need to try more GS
18:38:27  <supermop_work_> it is still limited by the map generator in the sense that if you want big city surrounded by smaller towns that stay small you get that
18:38:31  <andythenorth> instead of just declaring GS broken
18:38:39  <peter1138> What I want to do is play a multiplayer game with NRT
18:38:41  <peter1138> But
18:38:43  <andythenorth> you do?
18:38:45  <andythenorth> o_O
18:38:45  <peter1138> It's not been merged yet.
18:38:48  <andythenorth> oof
18:38:51  <andythenorth> well merge it
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18:39:03  <andythenorth> I need to test unreleased FIRS :P
18:39:05  <supermop_work_> even if a small town is the most natural center of your network, and the only big city is on top of some remote mountain in the corner of the map
18:39:09  <andythenorth> but we have no way to do that
18:39:26  <andythenorth> how will Villages* interact with pikka's TAI?
18:39:31  <andythenorth> both try to control towns
18:39:33  <peter1138> "At least 1 approving review is required by reviewers with write access."
18:39:34  <peter1138> So...
18:39:38  <peter1138> I dunno.
18:39:42  <supermop_work_> viv just limits growth
18:39:44  <peter1138> ARE PEOPLE EXPECTING ME TO REVIEW THIS?
18:39:51  <andythenorth> YOU ALREADY DID
18:39:55  <peter1138> When all the commits have my NAME on them.
18:40:03  <andythenorth> TB also reviewed it
18:40:05  <andythenorth> ages ago
18:40:18  <supermop_work_> i imagine it would work with tai, just dampen some of its effects in smaller towns
18:40:25  <andythenorth> if only it had already been available in a binary for like 2 years, peter1138
18:40:26  <andythenorth> imagine
18:40:35  <andythenorth> it might have had play testing and stuff
18:40:39  <andythenorth> even test grfsa
18:41:44  <peter1138> Not so much "test"
18:41:45  <Eddi|zuHause> "43c8cd1d5e7d0fa2b7e369eac0239a41ae6c0bb1 is the first bad commit"
18:42:00  <peter1138> bisecting?
18:42:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the rebase
18:42:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the first rev that causes a conflict
18:42:30  <peter1138> That's automatic -> implicit orders
18:43:02  <peter1138> Fairly invasive search & replace, tbh.
18:43:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but that shouldn't be a code problem, just a conflict resolving headache
18:44:41  <peter1138> Hm, maybe I should fake the commits to be from andythenorth, and then approve it myself, and then lol
18:44:53  <peter1138> 3rd Jun.
18:44:56  <peter1138> 2018
18:45:12  <peter1138> And we'd already had updates before it was PR'd.
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18:47:26  <andythenorth> peter1138: create a sock puppet account, gain our trust, then get approval rights, then commit it?
18:47:43  <peter1138> Maybe I already did!
18:48:30  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Wasn't there an attempt somewhere at implementing YACD by manipulating the cdist graph?
18:48:59  <Eddi|zuHause> "configure: error: gcc older than 3.3 can't compile OpenTTD because of its poor template support" well, that makes testing the changes difficult
18:49:14  <peter1138> FLHerne, that was the alleged way of doing it
18:49:49  <peter1138> FLHerne, not sure if anyone actually did it.
18:49:58  <glx> 3.3 is very old
18:50:18  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: it's misdetecting the version
18:50:23  <glx> ah
18:50:40  <FLHerne> Oh, it's branches yacdmess{1,2} in https://github.com/ulfhermann/openttd/tree/yacdmess2
18:50:52  <peter1138> "mess"
18:50:56  <peter1138> How reassuring.
18:51:27  <glx> at least it's explicit :)
18:52:02  <FLHerne> Oh, https://github.com/ulfhermann/openttd/commits/dest2 is more recent
18:52:09  <FLHerne> Forum post https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=54253&sid=7a15355a0c1062a414213c840e2f480b&start=380#p1107053
18:54:04  <peter1138> Maybe we can merge it before nrt
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18:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause> well, let's ignore that :)
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19:03:12  <Eddi|zuHause> next one: "5bb79b1f46f2428f6416ad6d85b0e903ca9629b4 is the first bad commit"
19:03:18  <Eddi|zuHause> another rename commit
19:04:20  <Eddi|zuHause> hm...
19:04:31  <Eddi|zuHause> that conflict doesn't seem to have anything to do with that?
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19:06:01  <andythenorth> hmm
19:06:10  <andythenorth> some way to built train stations in cities :P
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19:06:15  <andythenorth> built / build /s
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19:08:39  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i think that was right... but i'm not sure
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19:16:42  <nielsm> have anyone tried to solve the problem of income distribution for transferred cargo by using a chain of only partially resolved cargo packets that builds up until the cargo reaches the final destination?
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19:17:16  <nielsm> or other way of keeping track of every leg of the route travelled
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19:22:06  <andythenorth> diagonal canals? o_O
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19:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: problem will be that loading/unloading may split and join cargopackets
19:22:54  <andythenorth> ugly https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9346/ugly_canal.png
19:23:32  <Eddi|zuHause> (and memory consumption will be multiplied by average transfer chain length)
19:23:57  <Samu> i think the rail station is uglier
19:24:19  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not sure what your problem is
19:24:23  <andythenorth> ugly
19:24:32  <Eddi|zuHause> other than the raised landscape
19:24:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and the stub river
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19:25:15  <andythenorth> ugly square canal
19:26:03  <peter1138> Gu for desert tonight
19:26:06  <andythenorth> nice
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19:27:48  <peter1138> Hmm, okay, why are trams available in the scenario editor?
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19:30:50  <Samu> peter1138, 7424 + 7429, passed the assert, intercontinental opengfx+ newgrf
19:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> the question should be: why not rails?
19:31:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and a company switch?
19:31:27  <Eddi|zuHause> similar to gamescripts, scenario editor user should be able to build as "world" or as "company <X>"
19:31:43  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: traditionally scenarios don't contain any companies
19:31:50  <peter1138> Yeah? Well, that isn't the task I am tackling.
19:31:56  <Samu> on a 4096x4096 map, about 12k towns
19:32:04  <LordAro> i imagine it could, but it's not exactly been designed with that in mind
19:32:06  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: the orginal featured scenarios with prebuilt infrastructure
19:32:21  <peter1138> Samu, try with low towns on a 4k map :-)
19:32:40  <Samu> low? ok
19:32:52  <peter1138> That Gu was very nice but pretty damn small for the amount of carolies
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19:33:10  <Samu> low or very low?
19:33:13  <Samu> which preset
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19:33:57  <Samu> low it is
19:34:52  <Samu> 2816 towns
19:36:09  <JGR> @nielsm, to answer your earlier question on income distribution, yes, I've implemented this
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19:38:58  <Samu> i wonder, how would an AI access those other airports
19:39:09  <Samu> time to run visual studio
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19:45:43  <andythenorth> it was briefly JGR
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19:48:15  <peter1138> 'twas brillig
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19:57:08  <Samu> weird stuff lol
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19:57:32  <Samu> https://imgur.com/plMfVhs
19:57:40  <Samu> so this is how an AI sees the airports
19:57:50  <Samu> the opengfx+ airports thing
19:58:03  <Samu> goes up till 127
19:58:24  <peter1138> That's...
19:58:37  <peter1138> What list is that?
19:58:44  <peter1138> I mean, what's the API call?
19:59:15  <Samu> type 9 apparently isn't a valid airport type
19:59:29  <peter1138> Or are you blindly querying airport information?
19:59:43  <Samu> Im doing this:
19:59:54  <peter1138> IsAirportInformationAvailable?
19:59:55  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqbylmyxq
19:59:59  <Samu> API is 1.4
20:00:12  <peter1138> We're on 1.9 now of course.
20:00:49  <Samu> I didn't run that one
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20:01:07  <Samu> gonna add that to the list
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20:02:22  <TrueBrain> glx: that cmake commit, will you backport that to master?
20:02:36  <Samu> https://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/classAIAirport.html from what that says... Is Valid Airport Type does check if it's available
20:02:47  <TrueBrain> glx: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7270/commits/b3bd9f57e4c9b3c0af09607464fd8c335c12b206 <- this one :D ("that" is a bit vague :P)
20:03:44  <glx> the warning happens only with cmake, because settingsgen is now 64bit for win64
20:04:02  <glx> so I guess it can wait
20:04:45  <Samu> gonna test without opengfx
20:05:00  <TrueBrain> glx: okay, let me rephrase: please backport this to master
20:05:01  <TrueBrain> :)
20:05:08  <glx> ah ok
20:05:19  <TrueBrain> the smaller the diff with the cmake branch, the better :)
20:05:35  <TrueBrain> having these random things in there only make the review more difficult :)
20:05:45  <TrueBrain> current code is wrong either way :P :D
20:05:50  <Samu> same thing
20:05:56  <Samu> but stops at 8
20:06:06  <peter1138> same thing?
20:06:11  <Samu> then from 10 to 127 it says it's available
20:06:15  <peter1138> You mean after 8 you get the same?
20:06:24  <peter1138> Yeah, I think that's a bug.
20:06:24  <Samu> let me paste
20:07:17  <Samu> https://imgur.com/a/yvAxXdR
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20:08:07  <Samu> I wonder what happens if I actually try to place airport type 127 lol
20:08:47  <peter1138> If it is actually allowed, that's another bug.
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20:13:22  <peter1138> Watching trees grow and die in fast-forward is mesmerising.
20:13:35  <TrueBrain> make into a gif? :D
20:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> if only tree growth had a vison...
20:13:50  <peter1138> Also: too many trees.
20:13:58  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7432: Fix: [Win64] settingsgen MSVC compile warnings https://git.io/fjTao
20:14:06  <TrueBrain> tnx glx :)
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20:15:07  <andythenorth> newgrf trees!
20:15:16  <TrueBrain> newgrf andy!
20:15:20  <TrueBrain> that would be awesome :D
20:16:00  <TrueBrain> means we can customize andythenorth with actions :D
20:16:10  <andythenorth> content > settings
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20:16:26  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: approve NRT pls, thx bai
20:16:38  <peter1138> andythenorth, nah, I found a bug :p
20:16:39  <TrueBrain> sure. You want more pink, or more purple?
20:16:50  <TrueBrain> owh, approve? I was reading improve
20:16:52  <TrueBrain> I am disapointed
20:17:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7432: Fix: [Win64] settingsgen MSVC compile warnings https://git.io/fjTa6
20:17:18  <glx> wow fast
20:18:17  <TrueBrain> without checking if the CI generates warnings :P He has faith in you :D
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20:22:05  <peter1138> Worked for me.
20:25:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #7432: Fix: [Win64] settingsgen MSVC compile warnings https://git.io/fjTao
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20:26:46  <Samu> I have bad news
20:27:07  <Samu> https://imgur.com/HR5lm9L <-> AIAirport.BuildAirport(65, 127, AIStation.STATION_NEW);
20:27:34  <peter1138> Nice.
20:28:54  <glx> and what's the bad news ?
20:29:07  <Samu> airport type 127
20:29:35  <peter1138> Undefined airports are... buildable. They fallback to the first type.
20:30:02  <peter1138> So the airport type restrictions are GUI-only at the moment, I guess.
20:30:28  <peter1138> Hmm, does it let you build that even if the small airport would otherwise be unavailable?
20:30:32  <peter1138> (By date)
20:31:11  <Samu> let me test in year 2000
20:31:45  <andythenorth> I need to make industries bigger
20:31:48  <andythenorth> just to fit stations around htem
20:33:07  <Samu> nop
20:33:12  <Samu> didn't build
20:33:24  <supermop_work_> andythenorth: i want newgrf trees
20:33:53  <supermop_work_> particularly i want a British Trees set
20:34:10  <supermop_work_> that will never be released despite generating 10 years of bad blood
20:34:32  <andythenorth> lolz
20:34:39  <andythenorth> or can I have stations with bigger catchment?
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20:35:47  <peter1138> For Tai(32)?
20:36:03  <peter1138> Everything spread out further...
20:36:35  <peter1138> Right, I'm guessing trams shouldn't be in the scenario editor, but roads are fair game.
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20:38:33  <andythenorth> agh fuck
20:38:46  <andythenorth> 5 years into game; all my industries start to close
20:39:00  <andythenorth> I should restore that feature in FIRS :(
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20:41:07  <supermop_work__> why is the office internet so bad this week
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20:42:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought that was office standard
20:43:45  <andythenorth> oof
20:43:50  <andythenorth> these closures :(
20:44:02  <andythenorth> with FIRS Steeltown, the industry chains are about 6 levels deep
20:44:11  <andythenorth> so I planned a network based on industry locations
20:44:16  <andythenorth> and now they're closing :(
20:44:33  <andythenorth> is this just how people normally play? :P
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20:48:04  <_dp_> andythenorth, so do you see now why I want no closing setting? :p
20:48:15  <andythenorth> newgrf
20:48:32  <andythenorth> GS!
20:48:37  <andythenorth> write a special GS
20:48:43  <andythenorth> to use with all the other special GS
20:48:46  <andythenorth> that nobody writes
20:49:10  <andythenorth> can GS make a call to an AWS lambda? o_O
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20:49:20  <_dp_> andythenorth, GS can't quite help with closing :p
20:49:24  <_dp_> :(
20:49:26  <andythenorth> no shit :P
20:50:04  <andythenorth> oof I might have to fix this FIRS
20:50:41  <peter1138> Closing after how many years?
20:50:47  <andythenorth> 5
20:51:00  <andythenorth> it's behaving as expected
20:51:04  <peter1138> Should've hooked more up by then.
20:51:13  <peter1138> New New Road Vehicle. Hm.
20:51:18  <andythenorth> I solved this years ago in FIRS, but 16-cargos breaks it
20:51:25  <_dp_> btw, technically speaking newgrf can't modify default industries either
20:51:32  <peter1138> Why does it break it?
20:51:37  <_dp_> only define a new set that looks like default and works like default
20:51:55  <andythenorth> it made assumptions about 3 cargos
20:52:01  <andythenorth> needs adjusting for 16
20:52:06  <andythenorth> so I just commented it out
20:52:34  <andythenorth> I figured it would be interesting to play a test game with original closure behaviour also
20:52:45  <andythenorth> it's just annoying mostly :P
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20:53:46  <peter1138> Hmm, AIAI places very odd road stops everywhere.
20:54:51  <andythenorth> 'too far from previous destination'
20:54:54  <andythenorth> lolz
20:54:54  <andythenorth> more bouys
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20:55:34  <peter1138> Ah, AIAI is abusing stationspread :p
20:56:43  <andythenorth> so am I
20:56:48  <andythenorth> have you nerfed it? o_O
20:57:09  <peter1138> No, it just explains the very odd road stop everywhere.
20:58:49  <Eddi|zuHause> but, did you break it with your new acceptance radius?
20:59:11  <peter1138> No, it'll still work.
20:59:55  <_dp_> will need much more spreading if station size is big enough
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21:00:18  <glx> just needs more road stops :)
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21:01:09  <peter1138> Yeah basically the "only place two opposite corners" trick no longer works
21:01:21  <peter1138> But you can still stuff a city with road stops to get full catchment
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21:04:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, my question was, does the existing implementation of AIAI use a "sparse" approach that breaks or a "stuffed" approach that is unaffected?
21:05:20  <glx> it probably already handle different catchment settings
21:05:50  <glx> and station spread
21:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but it won't know about this change
21:06:27  <Eddi|zuHause> (unless someone updated the code)
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21:14:53  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/yacd.git should work again
21:16:11  <Eddi|zuHause> ok
21:18:47  <michi_cc> And for the record, the main problem of YACD is/was performance, especially generating cargo packets where source and destination have a station but no valid path between.
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21:20:41  <michi_cc> Caching might work, but negative caching is always tricky.
21:22:14  <peter1138> I imagine fitting it in around cargodist is going to be tricky as well
21:24:02  <peter1138> Just got the random hang on exit bug...
21:24:09  <peter1138> SDL_AudioQuit :/
21:24:58  <LordAro> uhoh
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21:27:02  <Samu> fix ai airports api
21:27:19  <glx> what's wrong ?
21:27:21  <peter1138> Samu, Are you?
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21:27:30  <Samu> no, I'm not doing anything atm
21:27:32  <peter1138> Samu, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/new
21:28:24  <Samu> also, the documentation is kinda misleading :(
21:29:11  <LordAro> Samu: stop complaining and fix it, or at least document that it's an issue
21:29:15  <andythenorth> so does HEQS get merged to Road Hog, or what? :P
21:29:36  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd vote no
21:29:49  <Eddi|zuHause> keep them separate
21:30:19  <Eddi|zuHause> HEQS should be a set of special purpose vehicles that can be used with other vehicle sets
21:30:44  <Eddi|zuHause> no need to vendor-lock HEQS users
21:30:54  <Samu> I think Zuu talked to me once about api stuff code he was preparing for trunk, about these issues
21:31:06  <Samu> but trunk is over :(
21:31:18  <andythenorth> it's just a bit weird that HEQS can't be used with Road Hog
21:31:26  <andythenorth> well it can
21:31:28  <andythenorth> I just don't
21:31:40  <peter1138> trunk is now master. It's not over, it's better.
21:32:11  <glx> we can't break things without approval now :)
21:32:14  <Samu> he(she?)
21:32:17  <glx> big progress
21:33:47  <Samu> https://noai.openttd.org/api/trunk/classAIAirport.html is this ever going to be updated with 1.9?
21:34:01  <Samu> i really wanted a website to see the new functions all in one place
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21:34:31  <andythenorth> why would it be updated for 1.9?
21:34:35  <andythenorth> 1.9 isn't released
21:34:36  <Samu> think this trunk, is still the old trunk
21:34:54  <Samu> it doesn't have the new functions
21:35:00  <LordAro> Samu: https://proxy.binaries.openttd.org/openttd-releases/1.9.0-RC2/openttd-1.9.0-RC2-docs-ai.tar.xz
21:35:04  <LordAro> go nuts.
21:35:17  <Samu> oh, cool, ty
21:35:21  <LordAro> (also available for nightlies)
21:35:55  <LordAro> but yes, someone (read: TB) should work out how to get the noai/nogs/docs sites updated
21:36:45  <peter1138> Poor TB, having stuff dumped on him.
21:36:51  <glx> not many functions are missing I think
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21:37:01  <andythenorth> hmm nfo
21:37:09  <andythenorth> stations!
21:37:10  <glx> maybe company color ones
21:37:12  * andythenorth updates CHIPS
21:37:36  <glx> but we don't change API so often
21:38:26  <Samu> enum AIAirport::AirportType is described as: "The types of airports available in the game. "
21:38:34  <Samu> lists the 9 vanilla airports
21:38:48  <Samu> and nothing about possible newgrf airports :o
21:39:03  <glx> API can't know them
21:39:18  <Samu> it can :)
21:39:25  <glx> but you can still build newgrf airports
21:40:32  <Samu> opengfx+ airports as seen by the AI https://imgur.com/plMfVhs
21:40:32  <glx> I mean you can't put newgrfs airports in the enum as the index are not constant
21:41:19  <glx> and you can have at most 128 airport types
21:41:20  <Samu> from 10 to 23, I think
21:41:27  <Samu> are the newgrf airports
21:41:39  <glx> if you load more than one newgrf airport
21:41:54  <Samu> then from 24 to 127, are the buggy airports that shouldn't be listed
21:42:08  <glx> depending on the newgrf order index will change
21:42:29  <andythenorth> Gu!
21:43:25  <peter1138> glx, samu is crap at explaining anything
21:43:31  <glx> yup
21:43:33  <Samu> yes, I am :(
21:43:44  <peter1138> glx, basically, the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built.
21:43:59  <andythenorth> hmm
21:44:01  <glx> that's what I understood
21:44:02  <peter1138> So if an AI wants to query airport types, it gets a list of 127 of them.
21:44:08  <peter1138> Instead of, say, 10.
21:44:24  <glx> I can look at that
21:44:29  <andythenorth> FIRS design is probably too much dictated by neato algorithm for graphviz :P
21:44:36  <peter1138> You could, but what it really needs is just an issue on github.
21:44:47  <peter1138> 21:27 <@peter1138> Samu, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/new
21:45:01  <peter1138> Samu, thems the rules.
21:45:30  <peter1138> Samu, if you are not going to fix it yourself and make a PR (which is fine, you don't need to) then you really should file an issue instead. Don't just keep moaning about it on here.
21:46:00  <Samu> ok I will create an issue, I don't think i know how to fix this, it's newgrf stuff, which I rarely use/test
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21:46:48  <glx> it's not newgrf stuff, it's how AirportSpec::Get(byte type) to always return a valid spec
21:48:51  <andythenorth> yair, FIRS definitely too much designed by 'what makes graphviz look less crap'
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21:56:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #7433: AI Airports: the "out of range" indexes are marked as available, and can even be built. https://git.io/fjTwi
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21:57:48  <Samu> copy pasted the explanation
21:59:08  <peter1138> I have no idea how to "create an ai with this" :p
21:59:19  <peter1138> But thanks, that's good.
21:59:53  <glx> I'll check that, but not now :)
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22:13:59  <Samu> which type is helidepot
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22:14:19  <glx> AT_HELIDEPOT
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22:15:00  <Samu> 6
22:15:03  <glx> you can print the value, but it's 8
22:15:38  <Samu> 8?
22:15:45  <glx> ah no 6
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22:15:58  <glx> they are not ordered by value
22:16:21  <Samu> the one before was commuter
22:16:37  <glx> but it's not really important to know the value as there's an enum
22:17:05  <Samu> dang, this 4096x4096 test still got 7 and 8 to go
22:17:36  <glx> 7 intercon, 8 helistation
22:17:54  <Samu> 4-5 hours to go
22:18:19  <Samu> maybe 4
22:18:21  <glx> but if something works on smaller maps it will usually work on huge ones
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22:20:20  <peter1138> Are you still testing the airportgetnearesttown function for giant maps for all airport types?
22:20:25  <Samu> yes
22:20:27  <peter1138> I mean...
22:20:28  <peter1138> WHy?
22:20:31  <peter1138> What's the point?
22:20:44  <Samu> because I'm making sure perimeter check is enough test
22:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause> are we talking about a function that gets called once on a user click?
22:21:36  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, a bit more when AIs test it.
22:21:56  <Samu> talking about 7424 + 7429 combined
22:22:17  <Samu> without 7429, 7424 fails
22:22:27  <Eddi|zuHause> if we're implementing an optimized-for-area kdtree lookup, then it shouldn't matter much whether we're checking the perimeter or the full area
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22:23:42  <peter1138> It's not, it still loops.
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22:32:38  <Samu> just started testing intercontinental... again :(
22:33:04  <Samu> if everything goes according to plan, in 3 hours I'm finished
22:33:54  <Samu> % indicators were a good addition, at least I'm not looking at a blank screen
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22:50:52  <SimYouLater> So, can someone help me figure out how to deal with "RANDOM_LC_YEAR" for the Recycled Infrastructure Set?
22:51:26  <SimYouLater> I can't delete it because it's needed for some of the code I took from Nutracks, but it spits up an error.
22:51:50  <SimYouLater> ERROR: "src/graphics_NBAN_NBAE.pnml", line 92: Syntax error, unexpected token "RANDOM_LC_YEAR" Included from: "ris.pnml", line 2
22:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried compiling NuTracks the official way?
22:52:44  <SimYouLater> I just said I'm not trying to compile Nutracks. I'm trying to borrow it's code. RIS is basically "use this instead of 10 other NewGRFs".
22:52:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but have you tried?
22:53:07  <SimYouLater> Fair enough.
22:53:11  <SimYouLater> Brb, then.
22:55:18  <SimYouLater> I have no idea how to complie Nutracks. It has a couple "Makefile" files, but nothing for compiling. Do I just do it with the command line, or what?
22:55:46  <LordAro> you might find something more interesting inside those files
22:55:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a command line tool called "make"
22:55:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that will process the "Makefile" files
22:57:12  <SimYouLater> There's a "make" tool in my RIS folder. How do I copy and use it for Nutracks?
22:58:25  <LordAro> that would be... unexpected
22:59:04  <LordAro> what's the current structure of your RIS folder?
22:59:40  <SimYouLater> Just tried to copy it over and edit with notepad. Even after adding the subfolder the pnmls are in, it won't compile.
23:00:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you're doing the right thing here
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23:00:41  <SimYouLater> Alright. I'll let you explain.
23:01:18  <LordAro> it's difficult to say anything without knowing what your current setup is, and what on earth this "make" thing is that you've found
23:01:32  <SimYouLater> make.bat
23:01:50  <SimYouLater> gcc -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o src/nutracks.nml src/nutracks.pnml nmlc src/nutracks.nml  PAUSE
23:02:12  <LordAro> right
23:02:16  <SimYouLater> If you need more, just tell me and I'll upload a zip of it for you.
23:02:21  <LordAro> that is, oddly, exactly what you want
23:02:26  <LordAro> though i imagine you're missing gcc
23:02:36  <LordAro> since i presume you're running nmlc via cmd?
23:03:27  <SimYouLater> Just found gcc. Sorry, I've been away from coding for a while.
23:04:32  * _dp_ hopes it's not gcc.bat
23:04:38  <LordAro> well gcc's been around since 1980, so...
23:04:52  <SimYouLater> Well. It's going to take 30 minutes to copy the gcc folder over to the Nutracks folder.
23:05:25  <LordAro> can i ask what you've found?
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23:05:41  <SimYouLater> gcc-8.2.0
23:05:52  <SimYouLater> That's what I found. Also in my RIS folder.
23:05:59  <peter1138> Yeah I don't think you want to be copying that over the Nutracks folder.
23:06:07  <SimYouLater> ...okay.
23:06:16  <LordAro> SimYouLater: look up MSYS2
23:06:22  <LordAro> it will make your life a lot easier
23:07:46  <SimYouLater> Oh. It's versioning software. I can't deal with that stuff. It's only easier if you are willing to spend hours setting up and learning how to use it.
23:08:15  <LordAro> well no
23:08:16  <peter1138> 1) it's not.
23:08:17  <LordAro> but also yes
23:08:28  <peter1138> 2) versioning is definitely worth it
23:09:00  <LordAro> peter1138: RISv2.final.final.zip not good enough for you?
23:09:06  <LordAro> honestly.
23:09:34  <SimYouLater> Not for me. I can't deal with versioning. Last time I tried to do it, I ended up uninstalling it and never looking back.
23:10:14  <LordAro> i think you will struggle in future without it
23:10:19  <SimYouLater> What does MSYS2 do?
23:10:22  <LordAro> there's a reason they exist
23:12:13  <LordAro> MSYS2 is, very simply, a development environment for Windows
23:12:29  <LordAro> contains things like make, gcc, python, whatever
23:13:02  <LordAro> all in a way that means that you don't have to think about installing things individually, nor copy everything into the same directory like a crazy person
23:14:30  <LordAro> hmm, that was a bit much, my apologies. but still, shunning a major development standard practice isn't going to work out well long term
23:14:39  <LordAro> we even taught Samu how to use version control
23:15:01  <SimYouLater> If I'm going to do this, I need to have voice chat to help me set it up. I'm assuming MSYS is a local thing I put on my computer, not cloud-based versioning.
23:16:34  <LordAro> you're unlikely to have much luck convincing anyone to do voice chat here. https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Windows_using_MSYS2 might be a decent start. it's for compiling OTTD (obviously) rather than any grf stuff, but most of the basics are there
23:16:50  <LordAro> but yes, it is a local system thing
23:25:53  <SimYouLater> error: failed to commit transaction (unexpected error) Errors occurred, no packages were upgraded.
23:26:10  <SimYouLater> MSYS isn't working right, in spite of following instructions to the letter.
23:26:44  <Samu> I'm using version control? I probably am, I dunno
23:26:58  <Samu> I tend to do a lot of stuff that I don't know
23:27:22  <LordAro> Samu: git and svn are version control systems, yes
23:27:33  <LordAro> SimYouLater: that error seems incomplete
23:27:38  <Samu> ah, that's what you call version control
23:27:39  <LordAro> something above it, i think
23:27:42  <Samu> in that case, yes :p
23:28:40  <Samu> for me, they're patch switchers, sort of
23:28:48  <SimYouLater> It said something about taking longer than 10 seconds with too little incoming data.
23:28:57  <SimYouLater> For multiple packages.
23:29:15  <SimYouLater> Wait, I think it worked the second time.
23:29:22  <LordAro> SimYouLater: sounds like your internet connection might have some issues
23:29:31  <LordAro> especially if you're still doing that gcc download
23:29:48  <LordAro> Samu: even patches are sort of a version control system
23:29:51  <LordAro> just... less automated
23:30:50  <Samu> just finished playing tetris in path of exile
23:31:15  <Samu> if you know what I mean
23:39:29  <SimYouLater> Okay, I got everything installed. The next step is about compiling OpenTTD, so I assume I'm done.
23:41:07  <SimYouLater> Now what?
23:42:10  <LordAro> rerun that make.bat script from the msys terminal
23:42:23  <Eddi|zuHause> "Welcome to the April 2018 Update"... am i late to the party?
23:43:05  <LordAro> i'm not sure they've fully rolled out the October 2018 release yet
23:43:29  <SimYouLater> $ cd C:\TTDTools\GRFs\! Useful Sources !\nutracks-c56a33a23225 bash: !\nutracks: event not found
23:43:51  <LordAro> oho
23:44:07  <peter1138> Uh oh, strange characters in paths
23:44:08  <LordAro> '!' tend to interfere with pathnames
23:44:13  <LordAro> try quoting it
23:45:00  <SimYouLater> $ cd C:\TTDTools\GRFs\Useful Sources\nutracks-c56a33a23225 bash: cd: too many arguments
23:45:32  <LordAro> oh right, backslashes
23:46:01  <LordAro> MSYS uses a slightly different way of doing paths - use "/c/TTDTools/..."
23:46:17  <LordAro> i think quoting it would work as well
23:46:45  <SimYouLater> $ cd /c/TTDTools/GRFs/Useful Sources/nutracks-c56a33a23225 bash: cd: too many arguments
23:47:09  <peter1138> Still need to quote it.
23:47:17  <SimYouLater> Quoting worked, yeah.
23:47:19  <LordAro> the spaces
23:48:13  <SimYouLater> $ bash: run: command not found
23:48:25  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: is that the one that wiped your hard disk if you used custom paths?
23:48:36  <Samu> started helistation, airport type 8, the last one
23:48:53  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: hmm?
23:48:59  <LordAro> SimYouLater: what did you try to do?
23:49:03  <Eddi|zuHause> the October 2018 update
23:49:14  <LordAro> oh right, yes
23:49:20  <LordAro> something to do with onedrive, iirc
23:49:32  <SimYouLater> Tried to run the make.bat from msys terminal
23:49:57  <SimYouLater> Fortunately, my hard drive has not been wiped.
23:50:09  <LordAro> SimYouLater: and you typed "run" ?
23:50:22  <SimYouLater> Yes. run make.bat
23:50:40  <LordAro> well, "run" isn't a thing, in cmd or in msys
23:50:53  <SimYouLater> Oh. Not sure where I got that idea.
23:50:55  <LordAro> luckily, you should just be able to do "./make.bat"
23:51:10  <LordAro> until you immediately find that the file isn't executable, anyway
23:51:21  <SimYouLater> $ ./make.bat  C:\TTDTools\GRFs\Useful Sources\nutracks-c56a33a23225>gcc -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o src/nutracks.nml src/nutracks.pnml src/nutracks.pnml:11:10: fatal error: src/compatibility.pnml: No such file or directory  #include "src/compatibility.pnml"           ^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ compilation terminated.  C:\TTDTools\GRFs\Useful Sources\nutracks-c56a33a23225>nmlc src/nutracks.nml 'nmlc' is not recognized as an internal o
23:51:42  <LordAro> progress!
23:52:02  <LordAro> it's now trying to preprocess the pnml file into an nml file
23:52:09  <LordAro> only it's missing all the other files it includes
23:52:22  <LordAro> (and then it's also not picking up your nmlc install, but that's later)
23:53:09  <Eddi|zuHause> SimYouLater: if you want to paste multiple lines, you can use https://paste.openttdcoop.org
23:53:29  <SimYouLater> Thanks.
23:55:40  <SimYouLater> So what do I do to keep going?
23:56:19  <LordAro> find the files that are missing, probably
23:57:08  <glx>         _STL_VERIFY(_Off == 0 || _Ptr, "cannot seek value-initialized vector iterator");
23:57:14  <SimYouLater> The files aren't missing. compatibility.pnml is in the src folder.
23:57:27  <glx> this assert doesn't feel good
23:57:44  <glx> let's retry to trigger it
23:57:54  <Eddi|zuHause> SimYouLater: it's probably expecting to be run in a different folder?
23:58:13  <Eddi|zuHause> SimYouLater: try "-I." or something like that
23:58:25  <Eddi|zuHause> or "-I ."?
23:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno
23:59:49  <SimYouLater> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p8eyuxrss

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