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Log for #openttd on 1st May 2019:
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05:55:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7554: Fix #7553: validate the number of allocated strings https://git.io/fjZZ0
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06:06:28  <andythenorth> well
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06:07:31  <peter1138> 'Sup yo!
06:07:38  *** Suprcheese is now known as Supercheese
06:13:23  <peter1138> andythenorth, ooh you do 2x and 4x pixels screenshots now... Can you do 1x as well? :p
06:15:54  <andythenorth> hmm
06:17:00  <andythenorth> well it's a screenshot of 2x zoom :P
06:17:03  <andythenorth> I could reduce it :P
06:30:35  <peter1138> Hmm, trams with 0 hp. That seems wrong :/
06:30:49  <andythenorth> might be unexpected
06:41:54  <andythenorth> hmm
06:41:59  <andythenorth> when do I stop adding wagons :P
06:42:21  <Eddi|zuHause> when you're dead?
06:43:42  <andythenorth> yes!
06:43:42  <andythenorth> ok
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06:59:24  <andythenorth> intermodal next :P
06:59:28  <andythenorth> such madness to do
07:00:30  <peter1138> Hmm, wonder why these trams are 0 hp.
07:00:44  <peter1138> (undefined string)
07:00:46  <peter1138> WHAT HAVE I BROKEN
07:01:04  <andythenorth> oops
07:01:13  <andythenorth> definitely you, not the grf?
07:01:33  <peter1138> I don't know. I don't know what set it is either, as I have... a few... loaded.
07:01:43  <peter1138> It has a flag next to it.
07:02:31  <andythenorth> hmm
07:02:37  <peter1138> Well, I better go. TTYL.
07:04:47  <andythenorth> innit
07:11:20  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't there a newgrf debug window which can tell which grf it is from?
07:11:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the game certainly has that info
07:19:18  <andythenorth> eh
07:19:35  <andythenorth> intermodal wagons, classic case for sprite layers?
07:19:41  * andythenorth thinks  so
07:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause> containers?
07:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> or trucks on wagons?
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08:10:22  <LordAro> morn
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08:25:27  <Wolf01> o/
08:27:58  <Wolf01> I like short weeks, but with short weeks come also short weekends
08:29:20  <andythenorth> containers eddi
08:29:31  <andythenorth> but TBH, trucks are just containers with wheels :P
08:41:46  <Artea> Weed Truck!
08:42:27  <andythenorth> boom boom
08:42:28  <andythenorth> also bbl
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09:26:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)  https://git.io/fjZWM
09:34:25  * peter1138 having a Genesis binge.
09:34:33  <peter1138> Just need belugas here.
09:34:35  <peter1138> @seen belugas
09:34:35  <DorpsGek> peter1138: belugas was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 4 weeks, 2 days, 13 hours, 16 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <Belugas> yeah, a birthday :)  a good friend of mine!
09:35:15  <peter1138> Can't believe it was 10+ years ago that we were making music.
09:35:24  <peter1138> And I never got better :(
09:40:50  <Flygon> It's never too late to improve.
09:41:12  <V453000> so when are we improving OpenGFX Flygon ? :)
09:41:13  <Flygon> I'm a bit of a Mega Drive nut, myself. >_>
09:41:46  <peter1138> We basically did online jamming with a few bars delay for synchronisation... worked out nicely sometimes :p
09:41:50  <Flygon> V453000: When we port OpenTTD to the 32x, and use that ultra awesome whacky amazing 16-bit colour 320x200 mode. :B
09:42:07  <peter1138> But that software is dead, Belugas isn't around, and... meh. Time.
09:42:19  <Flygon> Yeah I... uh.
09:42:25  <Flygon> Was a bit afraid of asking if they died.
09:42:34  * Flygon has been observing the channel from a distance
09:42:34  <peter1138> The software. Not Belugas ;-)
09:42:43  <Flygon> :V
09:43:03  <peter1138> I have him on Facebook, he's fine.
09:43:14  <V453000> :d
09:43:22  <peter1138> Actually the only other OpenTTD dev I have any contact without outside here. Hmm.
09:44:10  <LordAro> peter1138: strava counts too, right? :p
09:44:26  <peter1138> Oh yes!
09:44:39  <peter1138> Not so good for communication though :-)
09:44:46  <LordAro> though i can't compete with the "old school" bit
09:45:03  <peter1138> Hmm?
09:45:40  <LordAro> the "core" that's been around since mid 00s
09:53:29  <peter1138> @seen rubidium
09:53:29  <DorpsGek> peter1138: rubidium was last seen in #openttd 39 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 49 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Rubidium> peter1138: but then the 4-5 day shipping holds, right? Friday, Saturday, Sunday and finally arriving on Monday; I count 4 days of shipping ;)
09:53:31  <peter1138> Hmm.
09:53:57  <peter1138> Did the move to github upset him or something?
09:55:10  <Flygon> Shit, have I been inactive that long?
09:55:22  <Flygon> It feels like I saw rubidium chatting here yesterday.
09:56:03  <peter1138> Well anyway, the old core is thinning a bit :/
09:56:11  <peter1138> Fresh blood is good though, right?
09:56:39  <Flygon> We're growing old.
09:56:50  <Flygon> I mean, I'm like, a decade newer than you, but I still feel old on the Internet. :V
09:57:47  <peter1138> Yeah, I'm 41 now. FML.
09:58:03  <peter1138> At least I'm fit now.
09:58:24  <Flygon> We shall forever remember the Squirrel that sang about Gonads.
09:58:33  <peter1138> errrrr
09:58:49  <Flygon> A decade too new? :P
09:59:19  <Flygon> I remember being a kid, seeing the Internet from '98ish to '03ish.
09:59:23  <Flygon> And it was just so, so full of...
09:59:40  <Flygon> Was shitposting even a phrase back in 2003?
10:00:11  <Flygon> And now modern internet posts are just on a whole nother level. I don't understand modern Internet.
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11:11:02  <peter1138> Urgh, elbow scab itching like crazy.
11:24:20  <michi_cc> Hmm, anybody wrote a May monthly dev post yet?
11:28:42  <peter1138> Doesn't look like it.
11:29:05  <peter1138> andythenorth, is it lunch?
11:29:44  <andythenorth> children of 1978 say yes
11:29:56  <andythenorth> and I thought I was the oldest :P
11:30:00  <peter1138> The secret is out.
11:30:01  <peter1138> Oh?
11:30:08  <andythenorth> I just assumed
11:30:22  <andythenorth> rubidium just got work busy and bored, afaict
11:30:32  <andythenorth> I did dm him but no reply
11:30:37  <andythenorth> yexo is all about google now
11:30:59  <andythenorth> the others pre-date me :P
11:31:09  * andythenorth mac + cheese
11:31:52  * peter1138 salad
11:32:03  <peter1138> Not even any cheese or meat.
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11:32:44  * peter1138 isn't the oldest anyway.
11:34:11  <andythenorth> less meat anyway
11:34:13  <andythenorth> climate change
11:37:43  <peter1138> Hmm, that was 65 carolies.
11:41:59  <andythenorth> mine was 416kcal
11:42:02  <andythenorth> what does that mean?
11:42:19  <peter1138> It means yours was a normal lunch.
11:42:26  <peter1138> I need to eat more.
11:42:43  <andythenorth> I am going to have toast and butter next
11:42:43  * V453000 had 0cal lunch
11:42:49  <andythenorth> V453000 not winning
11:42:52  <V453000> :D
11:45:15  <peter1138> I did have a chocolate croissant this morning, though.
11:46:36  <peter1138> So Belugas asked... how is the new 3D map array...
11:46:40  <peter1138> He's such a joker :p
11:48:22  <andythenorth> much lolz
11:48:33  <andythenorth> ask him to bring his lolz here
11:49:47  <peter1138> V453000, just not had it or are you cocaine fueled or something? :P
11:50:01  <V453000> former
11:50:29  <V453000> cocaine has 0 cal?
11:50:39  <V453000> important to know
11:51:54  <andythenorth> depends what it's cut with
11:52:04  <peter1138> Stop googling.
11:52:06  <andythenorth> if it's cut with sugar, then no, not 0 cal
11:52:29  <peter1138> https://www.nhs.uk/news/lifestyle-and-exercise/cocaine-may-affect-the-way-the-body-stores-fat/
11:52:31  <andythenorth> I am reading a Stephen Fry biography this week, he talks about it quite a lot
11:52:33  <peter1138> But also... ^^
11:52:46  <peter1138> Want to get slim? Cocaine!
11:52:58  <peter1138> I prefer my method.
11:53:19  <andythenorth> so I was thinking about variations
11:53:30  <andythenorth> is it just a single property, that makes them group in the buy menu?
11:53:33  <andythenorth> is that it?
11:54:33  <peter1138> Something like that.
11:55:05  <peter1138> That's probably not flexible enough. Not enough vision.
11:56:06  <andythenorth> herp
11:56:10  <andythenorth> derp
11:56:25  <andythenorth> eddi already solved simultaneous introductions
11:56:43  <andythenorth> so what else?
11:56:55  <andythenorth> I need some kind of callback to query other members of the group?
11:57:05  <andythenorth> I need a var to find other group members in the consist?
11:57:05  <peter1138> Do you?
11:57:10  <andythenorth> I don't
11:57:22  <andythenorth> this is why specs are so awful :P
11:57:35  <peter1138> It's basically a way to have lots more engines without filling the engine list too badly.
11:57:44  <andythenorth> isn't it
11:57:52  <andythenorth> afaict. most of the work is UI faff
11:58:12  <peter1138> All of it is UI faff.
11:58:17  <andythenorth> I want to be able to buy the 'default' vehicle in the group without pissing around expanding the group
11:58:24  <andythenorth> and still be able to expand
11:58:46  <andythenorth> oh, there's always bollocks with sorting
11:59:01  <andythenorth> if you sort a list with expanded sub-groups, what's the sort order :P
11:59:03  <peter1138> Default could be last-built, or last-looked-at, or primary variant. But... who knows.
11:59:23  <andythenorth> also filtering by cargo, if some variants have a cargo and some don't :P
11:59:23  <peter1138> Same as sorting vehicle groups works.
11:59:27  <peter1138> They're still grouped.
11:59:58  <andythenorth> filtering is a pisser :)
12:00:27  <peter1138> Hmm, is it going to be warm?
12:00:30  <andythenorth> ish
12:00:35  <andythenorth> definitely ish
12:00:44  <peter1138> 11°C
12:00:52  <peter1138> That's... not warm.
12:01:01  <peter1138> But also not too cold.
12:01:09  <peter1138> Shorts and long sleeves.
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12:39:34  <supermop_work> yo
12:40:34  <V453000> how out of this world would be a request for any kind of control over industry dying through newgrf or settings or anything_
12:40:35  <V453000> _
12:40:36  <V453000> ?
12:41:59  <_dp_> doesn't newgrf have it already?
12:42:02  <V453000> the general point is that YETI industries die really often - as all of them are secondaries, after 5 years the chances seem stupidly high
12:42:10  <andythenorth> V453000: this is why TB rage quit :(
12:42:12  <V453000> can I do anything about this?
12:42:15  <andythenorth> yes and no
12:42:19  <andythenorth> you can ban closure
12:42:37  <andythenorth> you can write your own probability code for closure
12:42:45  <andythenorth> you can't make it work well
12:42:55  <V453000> :d not sure what that means
12:43:14  <V453000> anyway, can I add a small trickle of production to an industry to make it work like a mine?
12:43:32  <V453000> ... mines have different rules than if unserviced for 5 years, chance to die, right?
12:44:32  <andythenorth> errr NFI :)
12:44:37  <andythenorth> but you can add a trickle
12:45:25  <_dp_> V453000, I think it's determined by industry type, not whether it produces or not
12:45:46  <_dp_> yeah, indspec->life_type & INDUSTRYLIFE_PROCESSING
12:45:57  <V453000> life_type: IND_LIFE_TYPE_EXTRACTIVE;
12:46:43  <V453000> ahhh but extractive also gets prospecting and the other one funding at fund_new_industry 1
12:47:04  <V453000> well, would the trickle of production help?
12:47:08  <V453000> probably not eh
12:47:10  <peter1138> Hmm.
12:47:16  <peter1138> What's the goal?
12:47:48  <peter1138> Adding new flags is doable, but people tend to just complain that stuff isn't possible instead :p
12:47:50  <V453000> make YETI processing industries die significantly less
12:48:25  <peter1138> But not completely?
12:48:25  <V453000> I wonder if YETI extractive industries die a lot though
12:48:38  <V453000> well they should still die at some rate yeah
12:48:45  <V453000> I guess
12:49:38  <_dp_> V453000, production callbacks should be able to do anything
12:49:56  <_dp_> as they bypass that life_type nonsense
12:50:10  <peter1138> It's not nonsense :/
12:50:55  <_dp_> peter1138, it wasn't a nonsense in 1995 :p
12:51:10  <V453000> but I am using production callbacks
12:51:20  <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/yeti/repository/entry/src/production_callbacks.pnml
12:51:27  <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/yeti/repository/entry/src/industry_2X_food_plant.pnml
12:51:28  <V453000> for example
12:52:14  <_dp_> peter1138, now it only makes sense for sp play with default industries and no goal
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12:55:04  <_dp_> V453000, I don't know nml enough to understand that :(
12:55:11  <_dp_> V453000, I'm reading this https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/industry_cmd.cpp#L2560
12:55:58  <andythenorth> hmm
12:56:31  <V453000> _dp_: I don't know c++ wll enough to understand that :(
12:56:31  <andythenorth> this is like when people who do know a thing try to answer my questions when I don't know a thing :D
12:56:34  <V453000> :P
12:56:56  <andythenorth> V453000 TL;DR do you want some hax, or do you want to explore possibilties?
12:57:07  <andythenorth> hax = ban closure
12:57:13  <V453000> press any key
12:57:16  <V453000> idk, anything hat works :D
12:57:22  <andythenorth> hax = change the rules for closure
12:57:38  <V453000> I guess banning closure isn't the end of the world if I limit 1 industry per town which I believe worker yards already do.
12:57:41  <andythenorth> explore possibilities = long discussion that ends in ragequits
12:57:45  <V453000> change rules for closure - how?
12:57:51  <_dp_> V453000, xD, well, basically callback should somehow return a value that determines what happens with industry
12:57:52  <andythenorth> let's do school :)
12:58:06  <andythenorth> V453000: you use monthly and random prod change cb yes | no?
12:58:27  <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Random_production_change_.2829.29
12:58:39  <V453000> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pjxvipdbu
12:58:54  <andythenorth> winner
12:58:56  <peter1138> So if you don't return 03, it will stay, right?
12:59:00  <andythenorth> pretty much
12:59:06  <andythenorth> well, 100%
12:59:06  <peter1138> Doesn't sound very complex to me :p
12:59:08  <andythenorth> it's not
12:59:17  <andythenorth> hax are trivial
12:59:27  <andythenorth> banning closure = solved problem
12:59:33  <_dp_> peter1138, not quite, it still can decrease to closure and failed callback is also a thing
12:59:47  <andythenorth> eh what?
13:00:22  <V453000> it does random_prod_change: return CB_RESULT_IND_PROD_NO_CHANGE;
13:00:24  <V453000> that means 00?
13:00:33  <andythenorth> yes
13:00:40  <andythenorth> that just keeps it fixed
13:00:41  <peter1138> Production never changes is somewhat boring :)
13:00:53  <andythenorth> depends if secondary or primary
13:01:04  <andythenorth> this is secondary V453000
13:01:05  <V453000> well the production changes based on the cargo delivered inputs peter1138
13:01:17  <glx> tried to requeue failed PR, seems to work today
13:01:17  <V453000> everything in YETI is secondary as it processes something
13:01:22  <andythenorth> ok so paste monthly_prod_change_switch
13:01:45  <peter1138> glx, that's good :-)
13:01:46  <V453000> OH
13:02:13  <V453000> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p93rhibbs
13:02:19  <V453000> Sylf has been doing something with it already apparently
13:02:26  <andythenorth> yeah
13:02:34  <andythenorth> storing against a counter
13:02:43  <andythenorth> but there's no random
13:02:50  <andythenorth> so it will still do a wave of closures
13:02:59  <andythenorth> that code is like FIRS
13:03:13  <andythenorth> wtf is in extra_callback_info2 in this context
13:03:15  * andythenorth looks
13:03:26  <peter1138> Ok, so when you said that happens in FIRS, I thought you meant it was some limitation in OpenTTD. Not that you just haven't coded it :p
13:03:43  <V453000> well this is exactly what happens when I try to maintain code I didn't write and never understood :D
13:03:50  <andythenorth> eh what?
13:03:56  <andythenorth> oh extra_callback_info2 is random bits in monthly cb
13:04:18  <andythenorth> ok
13:04:51  <andythenorth> peter1138: closure control is completely solved :)
13:05:12  <andythenorth> the boring bit is there's no way to control it, other than random
13:05:20  <V453000> so I guess I Just need to play with the values here
13:05:20  <peter1138> Should I go 2160p or 1440p?
13:05:25  <V453000> 666p
13:05:26  <andythenorth> and then it falls into the "you must use GS" hole
13:05:28  <peter1138> andythenorth, you have persistent data, no?
13:05:29  <andythenorth> then world ends
13:05:38  <glx> both build succeeded, that's better
13:05:52  <andythenorth> peter1138: not on the map
13:05:56  <andythenorth> just per industry and town
13:06:08  <andythenorth> maybe I was just doing random wrong last time though
13:06:10  <andythenorth> I dunno
13:06:17  <peter1138> Why would you need persistent data on the map? Industry closure is obviously a per-industry thing...
13:06:30  <peter1138> (Rather than per-tile)
13:06:33  <andythenorth> the problem is that they all close at the same time
13:06:35  <andythenorth> frosch said it was unsolvable and I was wasting my time
13:06:43  <andythenorth> but maybe I just had poor implementation
13:06:47  <peter1138> They all close at the same time if you tell it to.
13:07:02  <andythenorth> how would you tell it not to? o_O
13:07:04  <andythenorth> other than random
13:07:12  * andythenorth has some ideas, but wants more
13:07:35  <peter1138> Hmm, I guess you are talking about unserviced industries only?
13:07:42  <andythenorth> [some rule]
13:07:43  <V453000> this defines the 0.5 percent chance, right_ extra? callback_info2 % 200
13:07:55  <frosch123> i think people want industry opening/closure not scale by map size
13:07:57  <V453000> so if I raise the 200 the chance will be less
13:07:59  <peter1138> A serviced industry will have more useful history you can persist.
13:08:15  <glx> ok I have warnings to fix :)
13:08:16  <andythenorth> frosch123: why was this unsolvable before? :D
13:08:25  <peter1138> Would a simple "how many other industries have closed this month?" varaction help?
13:08:29  <andythenorth> yes
13:08:32  <andythenorth> but can't I just give a random seed to each industry
13:08:41  <peter1138> (Or other industries of this type, or other industries servicing this cargo type, etc)
13:08:50  <frosch123> andythenorth: you try to solve the wrong problem, the statement "they all close at the same time" is a false observation
13:08:55  <andythenorth> peter1138 yes that would be super useful for more control
13:09:26  <andythenorth> frosch123: agreed, the problem I see is that we expect random in games to not be random
13:09:30  <peter1138> Does an industry have a way to get distance of nearest station (or player-object?)
13:09:40  <andythenorth> so if three coal mines all close at once, it looks broken
13:10:07  <peter1138> Can GS close industries?
13:10:10  <andythenorth> nope
13:10:20  <andythenorth> I can do a tile walk reading what's on the tiles
13:10:20  <frosch123> i think they can
13:10:27  <andythenorth> to find a station
13:10:38  <peter1138> andythenorth, tile walk in varaction? Not fun.
13:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm sure they can bulldoze them :p
13:10:48  <andythenorth>  not fun o
13:10:49  <andythenorth> no
13:10:55  <andythenorth> but possible
13:11:30  <andythenorth> var 60 might not have stations though https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Industry_Tiles#Land_info_of_nearby_tiles_60
13:11:40  <peter1138> Yeah that doesn't get you much.
13:12:27  <peter1138> Keeping some stats like industries closed this month, last month (or maybe quarters?) could help you spread out the closures
13:12:32  <andythenorth> frosch123: nogo only has read methods for industry afaict https://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.9.0/classGSIndustry.html
13:12:38  <andythenorth> peter1138: yes, that would be my preference
13:12:50  <_dp_> GS can't close industries, it only can demolish them if magic bulldozer is active
13:12:52  <frosch123> andythenorth: gs can create and close industries
13:13:05  <peter1138> Having a stat for how far away a player is building could mean you leave an industry open for longer if it's within reach...
13:13:12  <andythenorth> I did wonder about giving industry arbitrary per-newgrf storage
13:13:19  <frosch123> _dp_: i think they can demolish them without magic bulldozer
13:13:25  <peter1138> industry has per-industry storage, though, right?
13:13:27  <andythenorth> yes
13:13:41  <andythenorth> I did try counting the numbers of a type on the map
13:13:43  <peter1138> Per-newgrf storage might be nice.
13:13:48  <frosch123> andythenorth: i wonder, should this problem be solved in newgrf?
13:13:51  <andythenorth> but they're not closed until the next month
13:14:04  <frosch123> to me it sounds more like ottd should scale the random changes differently
13:14:20  <peter1138> So no custom production callback at all?
13:14:22  <andythenorth> frosch123: I am +/-0 to it, but it's not solved currently in GS, which is where the discussion usually goes to die :)
13:14:24  <frosch123> or freeze industries far from player activity
13:15:01  <frosch123> peter1138: we also have per-town storage, but i think only one newgrf used it
13:15:19  <peter1138> Per-town sounds fun for... interactions :-)
13:15:30  <frosch123> it's per-town&per-newgrf
13:15:42  <_dp_> frosch123, no, neither CMD_CLEAR_AREA nor CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR have CMD_DEITY flag
13:15:42  <peter1138> Ah so they can't conflict, or even "communicate"
13:15:45  <frosch123> no grm needed if you assumed that :)
13:15:55  <frosch123> peter1138: they can read others data by grfid
13:16:02  <peter1138> Oh nice.
13:16:08  <peter1138> So possible but also safe by defasult.
13:16:10  <peter1138> -s
13:16:32  <peter1138> But I guess you can only access the parent town for an industry, not an arbitrary town. Or maybe not even that for industries.
13:16:41  <frosch123> yep
13:16:48  <peter1138> Arbitrary town == use town 0 for communication, heh.,
13:17:38  <peter1138> Hmm, per-newgrf persistent storage, with direct access permitted by GS.
13:17:44  <glx> nice if I fix the warnings as suggested in CI log, mingw complains
13:17:50  <frosch123> town storage was meant for electricity/supplies-like mechanics
13:17:53  <peter1138> Obviously the GS and NewGRF have to be coordinated.
13:18:06  <peter1138> But that lets a GS control NewGRF-specific things.
13:18:22  <peter1138> (Or vice-versa, even)
13:18:43  <peter1138> Maybe not enough vision here ;)
13:20:13  <_dp_> peter1138, except for one little detail, it needs newgrf :p
13:20:21  <peter1138> Huh?
13:20:42  <peter1138> You need NewGRFs if you want NewGRFs to communicate stuff.
13:21:58  <peter1138> If there's no way for a GS to close an industry "normally" then that's a separate thing that can be added.
13:22:50  <_dp_> peter1138, well, communication is ok but I don't want to end with a situation where I have to write newgrf just to do something from GS
13:23:20  <peter1138> I'm sure. But the context here was NewGRFs abilities.
13:23:48  <_dp_> peter1138, also adding a way for GS to stop industry from closing would be much more useful ;)
13:23:57  <_dp_> peter1138, as well as stop production changes
13:24:01  <peter1138> More useful for a GS.
13:24:12  <peter1138> But it's possible to do that.
13:24:43  <peter1138> I mean, if you are an author of a GS, and you think some features should be implemented, then you can either implement them and file a PR, or make suggestions.
13:24:54  <peter1138> It's not like the API is set in stone, never to be altered.
13:25:31  <peter1138> It seems more common just to say ... well it doesn't do it, so it's all useless.
13:26:03  <_dp_> peter1138, well, last time I checked it wasn't possible coz newgrfs
13:26:23  <peter1138> That sounds unlikely.
13:26:58  <peter1138> And you just stated you wanted to do it without NewGRFs anyway, so that's a bullshit argument.
13:28:03  <_dp_> peter1138, well, if that's the policy now I'll think of some pr xD
13:30:16  <_dp_> for a long time industries were newgrf turf where no gs was allowed :p
13:39:15  <peter1138> No policy change.
13:39:56  <michi_cc> One thing I dislike about (default) industry closure is that there is no influence for the player (they only ever announce "imminent closure" and not "pending closure unless you do something").
13:40:16  <peter1138> Maybe you're confusing "this is how it currently is" with policy.
13:40:19  <michi_cc> And yes, NewGRF can emulate that with proper coding, NewGRF extra text and stuff.
13:41:36  <_dp_> peter1138, well, whatever, as long as it's ok
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13:42:09  <peter1138> It's always okay to make changes. Whether they get accepted or not is another matter.
13:42:21  <peter1138> But hey, we accepted stuff from Samu so it can't be that hard.
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13:44:27  <_dp_> peter1138, I just don't want to waste time on something that's never going to be accepted as a concept
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14:00:31  <Samu> hi
14:01:10  <andythenorth> _dp_: industries weren't newgrf turf where no GS was allowed
14:01:22  <andythenorth> just nobody wanted to enter that tarpit
14:02:35  <andythenorth> frosch123: I backed off from town stuff, I had the false impression it was deprecated :P
14:02:59  <andythenorth> if it's not, I might try some hax for fun
14:03:05  <andythenorth> meanwhile :P https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/51d914880f1090ea574aa40db748c1a7
14:04:16  <_dp_> hm, apparently mapgen goofing off with water towers is vanilla thing as well https://i.imgur.com/3C8uw2D.png
14:04:44  <_dp_> was wondering why it happens on cm servers xD
14:04:48  <andythenorth> lawks
14:05:10  <peter1138> That would be town-gen, not map-gen.
14:05:34  <_dp_> peter1138, huh?
14:05:47  <Samu> Round 13 complete
14:05:47  <_dp_> peter1138, has nothing to do with towngen
14:06:11  <Samu> https://1drv.ms/x/s!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjigjxGip1K_SgIilv
14:06:12  <peter1138> Oh industries, eh?
14:06:25  <peter1138> Well, if you disallow multiple industries of the same type per town...
14:06:32  <_dp_> peter1138, yeah, low amount of towns doesn't go well with industry placing algo
14:08:02  <peter1138> As water towers can only be in towns (like banks), this is kinda inevitable.
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14:15:46  <peter1138> I wonder if the placement rules should be... improved.
14:16:08  <peter1138> IIRC, at least with banks, they have to be placed over existing buildings.
14:16:23  <peter1138> Whereas just next to or nearby one would be sufficient.
14:16:33  <peter1138> (As well as over)
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14:21:45  <Artea> wow
14:21:54  <Artea> chaos traffic :o
14:22:23  <Artea> seems I screw another town
14:25:20  <_dp_> I though of switching to toml for config on citymania just to be able to express all the stuff I want from industry placement xD
14:25:27  <_dp_> ini just don't cut it %)
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14:34:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7554: Fix #7553: validate the number of allocated strings https://git.io/fjZt8
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14:52:06  <Samu> Round 14 has begun
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15:01:44  <Samu> Juan Guaidó is a martyr
15:02:06  <Samu> sending his ppl to their deaths, he's no better than Nicolás Maduro
15:02:16  <Samu> both retards
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15:28:46  <peter1138> glx, so this strgen thing... what's the hashing for?
15:29:12  <glx> string search
15:30:04  <glx> but I don't know where it's best to put the check
15:30:47  <peter1138> Based on the string name?
15:31:47  <peter1138> I'm wondering if there's some STL stuff we could use for this instead of large arrays of pointers.
15:32:13  <glx> based on string name it seems yes
15:32:14  <_dp_> peter1138, yeah, like std::map
15:33:41  <_dp_> or probably hash map, whatever is it called in stl
15:34:03  <LordAro> std::map :p
15:34:33  <glx> and hash is used to retrieve the index
15:34:37  <LordAro> peter1138: do i want to go flat and steady, or faster and (slightly) hilly this evening?
15:34:46  <_dp_> LordAro, std::map is rb-tree iirc
15:35:04  <LordAro> oh yes
15:35:06  <michi_cc> std::unordered_map
15:35:07  <LordAro> unordered_map ?
15:35:15  <_dp_> yeah, probably
15:42:56  <peter1138> LordAro, is it windy?
15:43:30  <peter1138> As in, blowy, not twisty-turny.
15:43:42  <LordAro> peter1138: not especially
15:44:15  <peter1138> Dunno then :p
15:44:25  <LordAro> :p
15:44:27  <peter1138> I'd be tempted to go faster, cos pushing is good.
15:44:44  <LordAro> mm, i think it's a slightly more interesting route as well
15:44:53  <peter1138> Leisurely mountain-bike riding for me tonight.
15:45:02  <LordAro> it's a case of whether i turn left or right out of my house :p
15:45:13  <peter1138> Hmm, actually it might be a bit tougher as the slower guy isn't out.
15:45:37  <peter1138> (He missed last week two, so he's gonna be even slower when he does get back :/)
15:45:41  <peter1138> ...
15:45:42  <peter1138> *too*
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15:48:52  <LordAro> heh
15:50:26  <peter1138> Do you get time to eat before you go out?
16:01:30  *** dihedral has joined #openttd
16:18:15  <LordAro> peter1138: nothing significant
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16:37:09  <peter1138> Hmm.
16:37:23  <peter1138> My ride starts at 7.15pm so I get a chance for a normal meal first.
16:37:36  <peter1138> Although a somewhat light meal cos of sloshing about :p
16:53:48  <peter1138> Sockeye salmon tonight, I think.
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17:01:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7555: Fix 2bb80d2: really increase the maximum number of GameScript texts to 64k https://git.io/fjZzN
17:02:36  <peter1138> Only a while back :-)
17:02:41  <glx> will still need the bound check
17:03:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7554: Fix #7553: validate the number of allocated strings https://git.io/fjZzx
17:06:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy updated pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fhGxd
17:07:24  <glx> showing strgen errors in script window seems impossible without using nasty hacks
17:10:27  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/fjZgJ
17:12:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7554: Fix #7553: validate the number of allocated strings https://git.io/fjZt8
17:12:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #7553: Game crashes if gamescript has more than 2048 strings https://git.io/fjZkY
17:15:51  <andythenorth> very stuff
17:15:54  <andythenorth> much thing
17:24:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7555: Fix 2bb80d2: really increase the maximum number of GameScript texts to 64k https://git.io/fjZgE
17:30:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)  https://git.io/vhlfg
17:30:53  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
17:31:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7555: Fix 2bb80d2: really increase the maximum number of GameScript texts to 64k https://git.io/fjZzN
17:32:13  <glx> hop and label added to both
17:32:37  <peter1138> ?
17:32:48  <glx> backport
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17:33:19  <peter1138> Ahh
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17:46:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot opened pull request #27: Scheduled monthly dependency update for May https://git.io/fjZ2L
17:46:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot commented on pull request #26: Scheduled monthly dependency update for April https://git.io/fjZ2t
17:46:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-github] pyup-bot closed pull request #26: Scheduled monthly dependency update for April https://git.io/fjkjG
17:47:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot opened pull request #21: Scheduled monthly dependency update for May https://git.io/fjZ2s
17:47:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot commented on pull request #20: Scheduled monthly dependency update for April https://git.io/fjZ2G
17:47:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek-irc] pyup-bot closed pull request #20: Scheduled monthly dependency update for April https://git.io/fjkjc
17:47:46  <peter1138> Hmm
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17:58:42  * peter1138 pokes at DorpsGek_II
18:09:49  <Xaroth> That's what pyup does
18:10:21  <Xaroth> it creates a new PR with package updates. If it has an old one still open, it adds a note to that old one and closes it.
18:53:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] juzza1 opened pull request #34: fix ottd_display_speed to reflect changes done in OpenTTD https://git.io/fjZa5
18:54:02  <V453000> Hmm, what have I gotten myself into
18:54:06  <V453000> I'm trying to set up cygwin to build yeti
18:54:21  <V453000> and pip install pillow is telling me that it failed to build wheels
18:55:13  <V453000> any hints for a dumb windoze user please? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/psmuxnyxu
18:59:01  <V453000> andythenorth: do I remember correctly that you said you wrecked jenkins?
19:00:53  <_dp_> V453000, install python-dev package
19:01:41  <_dp_> V453000, though not sure how is it called in cygwin
19:01:50  <V453000> well damn :D
19:01:56  <_dp_> V453000, but basically you need python headers
19:02:37  <_dp_> V453000, https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21843714/cygwin-gcc-issue-cannot-find-python-h
19:05:56  <V453000> hm idk
19:06:07  <V453000> did install python3-devel
19:07:29  <_dp_> V453000, yeah, that's probably the right one since you use python 3
19:07:48  <_dp_> and omg, 3.8 is already out %)
19:08:08  <_dp_> hm, or not...
19:08:28  <V453000> it did offer 3.8 to me
19:08:31  <V453000> in the installer
19:08:34  <V453000> I did check that
19:09:02  <_dp_> V453000, hm, weird, I only see 3.7.3 on python.org
19:09:08  <_dp_> but whatever, as long as it works....
19:09:37  <V453000> well I guess it doesn't :D
19:09:51  <V453000> I tried the setup again but it seems broken even more
19:10:20  <V453000> or
19:10:34  <V453000> ok it failed with the wheels again
19:10:47  <_dp_> 3.8.0 final: Monday, 2019-10-21
19:11:03  <_dp_> yeah, 3.8 is still alpha...
19:13:15  <_dp_> lol, you can assign in conditions in 3.8: while chunk := file.read(8192): ...
19:13:17  <_dp_> such C
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19:15:29  <_dp_> good for list comprehentions though
19:15:50  <frosch123> if (false; true)
19:18:09  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)  https://git.io/fjZVE
19:18:17  <andythenorth> V453000: I wrecked jenkins :(
19:18:24  <andythenorth> I broke it for my newgrfs
19:19:15  <V453000> oh
19:19:29  <V453000> well it sez 20:56:06 nmlc ERROR: "src/production_callbacks.pnml", line 19: Syntax error, unexpected token "LOAD_TEMP"
19:19:42  <V453000> you see anything wrong? produce(produce_raw_industries_real_1, LOAD_TEMP(0x0A), LOAD_TEMP(0x0B), 0, LOAD_TEMP(0x0C), 0, 0);
19:19:53  <V453000> that's line 19 from production_callbacks.pnml
19:21:09  <frosch123> it's the 32 cargos vs 64 cargos thing
19:21:47  <frosch123> different nml versions expect different syntax
19:21:59  <V453000> omg
19:22:07  <V453000> :D
19:22:18  <V453000> so it's probably broken all over the place
19:22:22  <V453000> hwo different?
19:22:33  <frosch123> no idea, i think it was not documented
19:22:48  * V453000 proceeds to die
19:23:19  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Produce <- that's the old syntax
19:23:25  <frosch123> maybe the new one is in some PR
19:26:13  <V453000> ._.
19:33:47  <andythenorth> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=85003
19:34:22  <andythenorth> if it's undocumented for long enough I will fix it
19:34:32  <andythenorth> but I think I make a poor maintainer
19:34:40  <andythenorth> and I am a shithead at documentation
19:34:43  <frosch123> at least it's documented that it's not documented :)
19:34:44  * andythenorth excuses
19:34:55  <V453000> hm
19:35:05  <V453000> problem is I don't understand the original code properly either :D
19:36:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)  https://git.io/vhlfg
19:36:39  <nielsm> :o
19:36:46  <michi_cc> andythenorth: I hope you have some free time for the bug reports :)
19:36:56  <nielsm> everything is different now!
19:37:08  <michi_cc> After all, the PR has your name on it :p
19:37:44  <andythenorth> much lolz :)
19:39:36  <nielsm> how should the documentation for new nml produce statement be, keep the old around in some form or pretend reality has morphed entirely?
19:40:05  <frosch123> make two sections
19:40:38  <frosch123> "nml <= 0.4" and "nml >= 0.5"
19:40:49  <frosch123> i think there is also a {{nml}} template for version icons
19:41:27  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action2/Industries#Format_version_00 <- in nfo docs there are these version 0/1/2 things with ottd version and stuff
19:42:08  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Builtin_functions <- similar things are here, like "nml 0.4.1"
19:42:41  <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:General <- nml 0.2 vs 0.3 stuff
19:50:27  <V453000> I'll try to understand it tomorrow, I promis :D
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19:56:08  <nielsm> https://0x0.st/zcJH.png
19:56:17  <nielsm> does that look like a start?
19:56:47  <andythenorth> :D
19:56:52  <andythenorth> thanks
19:57:00  <frosch123> version 0/1/2 probably is not understood by nml people
19:57:13  <frosch123> so just "nml 0.5" and "nml 0.4" as headline?
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20:00:54  <nielsm> what kind of example to use?
20:01:20  <nielsm> maybe something like 2 coal + 1 iron => 2 steel ?
20:02:39  <nielsm> or 3 coal + 2 iron => 2 steel sounds more sensible :P
20:03:36  <frosch123> there is a positive chance that future industry sets will copy&paste your input ratios
20:04:22  <nielsm> >_>
20:08:36  <nielsm> hm I'll copy my code with SWTR, TOYS and PAPR
20:10:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stale[bot] commented on pull request #7398: Fix #7371: Avoid dependency on foundations of town tile during saveload https://git.io/fjZwo
20:14:18  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gymnasiast commented on pull request #6811: Feature: Add NotRoadTypes (NRT)  https://git.io/fjZwM
20:27:46  <nielsm> ...maybe this is too long
20:28:58  <nielsm> well, saved the page now
20:37:51  <frosch123> thanks :)
20:55:50  <Samu> oh, AIAI just had its first loss!
20:55:54  <Samu> vs WormAI
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20:59:36  * peter1138 returns
21:04:33  <_dp_> meanwhile on citymania test server https://i.imgur.com/hkJaXDt.png
21:04:37  <_dp_> humanity is in trouble xD
21:04:56  <peter1138> What's going on there?
21:05:30  <_dp_> peter1138, just zombie apocalypse :p
21:08:36  *** Wormnest has joined #openttd
21:09:32  <_dp_> I wasn't joking when I was thinking of doing tower defence in openttd :p
21:10:12  <_dp_> zobies go nuts, food heal houses, goods damage zombies
21:19:38  *** nielsm has quit IRC
21:19:41  <andythenorth> much lolz
21:19:48  <andythenorth> this is the innovation we need :D
21:19:57  <andythenorth> can we do DF in OpenTTD? :P
21:20:14  <andythenorth> disclaimer: I have never played DF, got told it would eat my life
21:21:08  <peter1138> Should I have a hot cross bun?
21:22:13  <rubenwardy> <3 RimWorld
21:22:16  <rubenwardy> DF, but a game
21:22:39  <peter1138> Hmm, probably not at this time of night.
21:22:52  <andythenorth> bit late for carolies
21:23:04  <andythenorth> be like me, have a gaviscon and go to bed
21:23:10  <andythenorth> glamour
21:23:20  <peter1138> + I already had some. "protein" milk drink thing.
21:23:59  <glx> pff translations were not easy
21:24:10  <peter1138> Probably a good idea else I'll still be hungry later and want more and more food.
21:24:16  <peter1138> Stoopid sugar.
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21:26:06  <_dp_> zombies too op, need nerf
21:26:09  <LordAro> evnin
21:26:19  <LordAro> peter1138: good choice
21:26:22  <_dp_> but yeah, that's probably the first server I can call legitimately hard xD
21:26:38  <_dp_> even survival is not trivial
21:26:44  <peter1138> Hmm?
21:27:06  <_dp_> well, I guess there is no survival as zombies grow indefinitely...
21:27:43  <_dp_> was too lazy to program any win condition xD
21:27:52  <peter1138> This is where you want disasters "vehicles"
21:27:54  <peter1138> -s
21:28:11  <_dp_> oh yeah xD
21:28:21  <_dp_> though signs work pretty well too
21:28:23  <peter1138> Make a GS spawn a zombie 'vehicle'
21:28:45  <_dp_> disaster signs xD
21:32:33  <andythenorth> disaster signs :P
21:34:54  <peter1138> bed time signs
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21:35:19  <kryters> Does anyone have experience with troubleshooting Aphid's CityBuilder script? I threw a question on the forum topic, but I don't have much hope for it because it appears to be dead: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=62868&start=200
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21:37:31  <peter1138> shower -> sleep
21:37:33  <peter1138> nn
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21:48:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #72: Add: Monthly Dev Post of May 2019 https://git.io/fjkjm
21:48:46  <michi_cc> Some more content would be appreciated ^^
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22:15:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] juzza1 updated pull request #34: fix ottd_display_speed to reflect changes done in OpenTTD https://git.io/fjZa5
22:15:57  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] juzza1 closed pull request #34: fix ottd_display_speed to reflect changes done in OpenTTD https://git.io/fjZa5
22:22:33  <juzza1> i'll never attempt to change a wrong author on a single commit again
22:24:44  <glx> juzza1: messed rebase ?
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22:41:12  <juzza1> something like that, the pull request went crazy
22:42:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/nml] juzza1 opened pull request #35: Fix ottd_display_speed to reflect changes done in OpenTTD https://git.io/fjZKa
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