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Log for #openttd on 23rd May 2019:
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03:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the possible sizes are fixed, but it can provide more larger houses and shorter lifetimes so the problem can become more apparent
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05:13:05  <peter1138> mood gorning
05:13:36  <peter1138> A spec addition could probably quite easily add more sizes.
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05:30:23  <andythenorth> hi
05:38:44  <Corns[m]> Plot twist: turns out the dev of jokers patch pack has already implemented a "public roads" patch
05:39:12  <Corns[m]> During world gen it creates a road network between the towns, connecting the majority of them
05:40:14  <Corns[m]> On the other hand, i hear it uses a buttload of memory
05:40:50  <peter1138> Also the dev turned out to have a personality issue and disappeared for some reason.
05:54:34  <LordAro> quite a few broken save games
06:11:01  <Corns[m]> peter1138: :0 where does it say
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06:16:49  <peter1138> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74365
06:16:51  <peter1138> First post...
06:20:22  <Corns[m]> Holy
06:21:23  <Corns[m]> You mean like
06:21:32  <Corns[m]> How their post is basically cleared out?
06:21:52  <peter1138> And some later ones were replaced with "Done here"
06:33:40  <andythenorth> the most mysterious  rage quit
06:36:52  <andythenorth> is it lunch?
06:39:18  <peter1138> Unlikely
06:41:01  <andythenorth> thanks
06:41:08  <andythenorth> we should teach the bot to answer
06:57:27  <Corns[m]> peter1138: I'd like to modify and then add Jokers public roads patch to the master branch
06:58:16  <Corns[m]> What are your thoughts on the patch?
06:58:27  <peter1138> Never seen it.
06:59:14  <Corns[m]> peter1138: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=77024
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07:06:24  <andythenorth> AI
07:06:27  <andythenorth> GS
07:09:35  <Corns[m]> andythenorth: what do you mean
07:09:55  <andythenorth> there are AIs that build roads :)
07:09:59  <Corns[m]> Oh ru saying
07:10:04  <Corns[m]> Yeah
07:10:05  <Corns[m]> And gamescripts
07:10:13  <andythenorth> generally I think we favour using content over modifying the game
07:10:24  <Corns[m]> But i think its a nice feature that works alongside other gamescripts
07:10:24  <andythenorth> although that changes depending on who's active
07:10:46  <Corns[m]> +i guess it uses less cpu than the CityConnector ai?
07:13:12  <andythenorth> dunno :)
07:13:58  <Corns[m]> andythenorth: okay what do you think about this patch idea
07:14:23  <andythenorth> it's moot what I think, I can't merge anything :)
07:14:38  <andythenorth> I prefer using the content APIs, and having a smaller core game codebase
07:14:50  <Corns[m]> Oh
07:16:11  <Corns[m]> https://gfycat.com/zealoussentimentalcollardlizard
07:16:21  <Corns[m]> I dont think this one can be implemented via newgrf
07:17:19  <andythenorth> no
07:17:23  <andythenorth> I think that's in JGR
07:17:26  <andythenorth> iirc
07:17:46  <Corns[m]> Polyline is in JGR, yeah
07:18:10  <Corns[m]> But this uses A* to pathfind between the start and goal
07:18:10  <andythenorth> is it good?
07:18:17  <andythenorth> I tried polyline, but I couldn't figure it out
07:18:26  <Corns[m]> Oh rip
07:18:52  <Corns[m]> Polyline makes it easier for building longer lengths of track imo
07:20:28  <Corns[m]> Im still working on this railplanner - i need to reduce its memory usage most importantly
07:24:38  <Corns[m]> I think it'll save a lot of tedium for mobile/console players
07:25:37  <Corns[m]> And reduce the amount of clicks/effort the player needs to build tracks
07:27:22  <andythenorth> railbuilding can be tedious
07:31:17  <Corns[m]> Yeah i play a lot in reddit S1
07:31:49  <Corns[m]> And spending 30 mins building a track from one side of the 1024x2048 map to the other was a big motivator in me developing this
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08:11:42  <peter1138> Sure but that is basically the game.
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08:22:51  <Corns[m]> Depends what you get out of the game :)
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09:24:20  <planetmaker> Long ago I would have argued against it. But actually I meanwhile like the idea of this polyline rail builder
09:25:17  <planetmaker> I think it solves a problem for a number of people - and doesn't really hurt anyone
09:25:27  <planetmaker> after all, you're not forced to use it
09:25:47  <planetmaker> and a manual route would still be better - but take longer to build
09:29:29  <Artea> good morning
09:29:47  <Artea> my server stil running
09:32:17  <Artea> I gave up going everyday make more aircrafts
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10:29:47  <peter1138> planetmaker, from what I saw the game stalls while planning a route, so it needs work :p
10:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure the patch is "well tested"
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11:02:23  <planetmaker> I'm just talking about the feature, not the actual implementation ;)
11:12:23  <Corns[m]> peter1138: game doesnt stall while planning, ive implemented it so it does a fixed number of loops before relegating control back to the rest of the game loop
11:13:09  <Corns[m]> But yeah its memory usage is bonkers at the moment (up to 2gb for 1024x2048 corner to corner)
11:13:50  <Corns[m]> It needs work - i do plan to add features to account for corner size, inclines and maybe even bridges/tunnels
11:15:04  <peter1138> Why so much? o_O
11:15:29  <Corns[m]> Ive been reading a bunch of path search algorithms written by this one professor - although ive yet to implement them/see how they compare in performance with regards to time and memory
11:18:18  <Corns[m]> peter1138: the A* algorithm has to make a new struct for each possible track placement on each tile of land
11:19:32  <Corns[m]> So something like 64 bytes per node, 12 directions per tile and then some number of tiles per search
11:20:30  <Corns[m]> The "freeze" you see at the end of the gif, just as the entire track is built, actually comes from freeing/ deleting all the data structures that were in use :^)
11:21:20  <Corns[m]> So i guess that deletion process could be split up into multiple ticks so it doesn't cause noticeable lag
11:40:08  <peter1138> Hmm, is it lunch time?
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12:48:10  <dihedral> hello
13:10:32  <planetmaker> o/
13:12:14  <supermop_work> yo
13:28:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #7603: Town::cargo_accepted, Town::cargo_produced saveload and consistency issues https://git.io/fjB3A
13:33:07  <andythenorth> yo
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13:50:39  <peter1138> Might do a cycle tonight.
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14:02:22  <andythenorth> fair
14:02:29  <andythenorth> I might do some Azure pipelines
14:02:35  <andythenorth> kinda need a friend :P
14:27:26  <Eddi|zuHause> not sure how you'd get a friend via azure pipelines... but it's not like i'm an expert :p
14:27:56  <andythenorth> it's probably just a thing on the Azure plugin store
14:27:59  <andythenorth> 'install friend'
14:28:23  <Eddi|zuHause> a few years ago that would have been a python joke
14:29:41  <planetmaker> that sounds... spooky
14:30:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean https://xkcd.com/413/
14:31:42  <planetmaker> :D nice
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14:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i think there was another one of those buried in some larger xkcd, but i can't find it
14:51:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i got it: https://xkcd.com/521/
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15:49:38  <FLHerne> Alt-text too in that one
15:50:13  <FLHerne> There's also https://www.xkcd.com/353/
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16:04:56  <LordAro> FLHerne: https://github.com/python/cpython/blob/master/Lib/antigravity.py
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17:17:34  <Wolf01> o/
17:17:42  <supermop_work> hi Wolf01
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18:33:06  <andythenorth> yo
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18:34:41  <frosch123> ho
18:35:13  <andythenorth> hi
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18:38:15  <andythenorth> so I need to teach Azure pipelines about git revs / tags
18:38:22  <andythenorth> probably OpenTTD did that already?
18:48:45  <LordAro> probably
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19:20:53  <glx> you just need some files in your repo I think
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19:38:25  <glx> andythenorth: you need https://github.com/marketplace/azure-pipelines too
19:48:14  <andythenorth> what does it do? o_O
19:48:53  <andythenorth> oh I installed it already ok
19:50:25  <peter1138> hi
19:50:48  <andythenorth> chicken and rice
19:50:54  <andythenorth> not photo-worthy though
19:52:19  <peter1138> salmon and stirfry veg (my usual mix)
19:53:20  <glx> andythenorth: then basically it's just https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/pipelines/get-started/pipelines-get-started?view=azure-devops&tabs=yaml
19:54:06  <andythenorth> yeah, I have it building for a while now
19:54:15  <andythenorth> :)
19:54:38  <andythenorth> but I need to prep the artifacts for distribution
19:55:29  <andythenorth> maybe I can just the existing make target for bundling
19:56:00  <andythenorth> the goal is to push it Amazon S3
19:56:30  <glx> you can check openttd yml
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19:59:40  <andythenorth> ok the magic is all in the templates
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20:11:28  <nielsm> I "fixed" this page: https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Windows_using_Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2015
20:12:09  <glx> nice fix :)
20:12:37  <nielsm> who can delete pages?
20:12:44  <glx> hmm could add a link to the readme
20:13:00  <andythenorth> I can delete pages
20:13:25  <nielsm> https://wiki.openttd.org/Category:Compiling_OpenTTD
20:13:41  <nielsm> the pages for visual C++ 2012, 2008/2010, and 2005 are no longer valid
20:13:45  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: that last sentence could go in some notification box, wikipedia style?
20:13:46  <nielsm> none of those compilers are supported
20:14:09  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause yeah, I didn't care for looking up what box templates exist on this wiki right now
20:14:24  <glx> better link directly to https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/docs/Readme_Windows_MSVC.md than indicating README.md I think
20:15:51  <frosch123> nielsm: can you delete them now? maybe relogin?
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20:19:56  <nielsm> frosch123, I think I'll add the {{Historic|explanation}} box to them instead maybe?
20:21:58  <andythenorth> so when's 1.10? :)
20:22:24  <frosch123> i think history content is more for gameplay features
20:22:34  <frosch123> stuff you can learn from, or use in some discussion
20:22:36  <Eddi|zuHause> $someone wanted to accelerate the release schedule
20:22:45  <frosch123> andythenorth: 1.A
20:22:54  <andythenorth> _final
20:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause> we'll run into the next newgrf version trouble at 1.16
20:24:08  <Eddi|zuHause> or we pull a java and call the next version "10"
20:25:33  * peter1138 ponders some cheese.
20:26:18  * andythenorth had some
20:26:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i had something like https://www.rewe.de/rezepte/wurstgulasch/
20:32:17  <frosch123> i am having https://www.coffeefair.de/monin-sirup-mandel-0-7-l/a-71811319
20:32:20  <frosch123> not pure though
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20:36:17  <Eddi|zuHause> can't imagine what you use that in
20:36:59  <peter1138> Definitely not coffee, no.
20:37:26  <frosch123> the nut-based stuff works in light coffees, like cappucino
20:37:32  <frosch123> it does not work in strong coffee
20:37:42  <frosch123> and non-nut-based stuff does not work either
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20:38:02  <andythenorth> zlow Azure iz zlow
20:39:12  <andythenorth> hmm looks like NML failed
20:39:30  <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdmw75a2h/bqmxjo/raw
20:40:01  <glx> you know you can link to pipeline build :)
20:40:23  <andythenorth> https://dev.azure.com/mail0607/FIRS/_build/results?buildId=22&view=logs&jobId=54b4a527-ead6-5d78-3f02-5346815e0ca2&taskId=1eca62fb-7101-51e6-f719-ccbc7984bc29&lineStart=1&lineEnd=37&colStart=1&colEnd=1
20:40:55  <andythenorth> dunno how to make the world-visible
20:41:02  <andythenorth> probably clicking a lot of  scary buttons
20:41:16  <glx> hmm indeed it's blocked
20:41:40  <andythenorth> I'll try to make it unauthed
20:41:50  <andythenorth> Azure is very "and now you have 2 problems"
20:41:56  <frosch123> andythenorth: i think there is some PR to make nml work with newer pil
20:42:32  <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/29 <- you probably need that
20:43:38  <andythenorth> plausible
20:43:47  <andythenorth> currently I rely on getting nml via pip
20:43:57  <andythenorth> not sure how to teach it to install a dev build
20:44:35  <andythenorth> probably just clone the nml repo or something
20:45:04  <frosch123> what, pip? isn't that some 7 year old nml 0.2?
20:47:03  <Eddi|zuHause> > pip search nml
20:47:05  <Eddi|zuHause> nml (0.4.5)             - A tool to compile nml files to grf or nfo files
20:47:32  <glx> it's the latest stable yes
20:48:05  <supermop_work> peter1138: did you have the cheese?
20:48:14  <peter1138> I am having it right now.
20:48:23  <frosch123> https://pypi.org/project/nml/#history <- wow, someone updated it
20:48:27  <supermop_work> anything good?
20:48:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm always mixing up supermop_work and Supercheese
20:48:42  <peter1138> https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/261621240
20:48:42  <supermop_work> i do like cheese
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20:49:06  <supermop_work> hmm tesco goats cheese huh
20:49:25  <supermop_work> i do like ash covered goats cheeses now and then
20:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what you're talking about
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20:50:04  <peter1138> This is pretty... matured, as I bought it reduced price a week or so ago :p
20:50:07  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, cheese.
20:50:19  <supermop_work> no goats cheese in germany, Eddi|zuHause ?
20:50:40  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_work: i'm sure there is, but in my world, cheese plays no part
20:50:40  <frosch123> it's only imported from greece
20:50:57  <andythenorth> peter1138: I just threw some away
20:51:01  <glx> silly, france is closer :)
20:51:05  <andythenorth> there's ash, and then there's black mould :P
20:51:13  <andythenorth> it's important to know one from the other, I found
20:51:15  <peter1138> Hmm.
20:51:21  <peter1138> This is not mouldy.
20:51:28  <supermop_work> hooray
20:51:29  <andythenorth> mine was only just gone
20:51:44  <peter1138> I did buy one a couple of months back and it did go mouldy, but it was orange/pink mould, so kinda obviouis.
20:51:47  <peter1138> -i
20:52:23  <supermop_work> i have this huge bag of bresaola and prosciutto that i got as leftovers from a design party on tuesday
20:53:08  <supermop_work> like 1 kg of charcuterie. in a race against time to eat before its gets much more 'mature' in my fridge
20:53:15  <peter1138> Heh
20:53:52  * andythenorth celebrates 10s Horse compiles, again
20:53:58  <andythenorth> much spriting
20:54:01  <peter1138> Ripped everything out?
20:54:18  <supermop_work> its just the class 20 and one hopper now
20:54:24  <andythenorth> using grfcodec
20:57:45  <peter1138> o
20:57:58  <andythenorth> old is new again
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21:15:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MingweiSamuel opened issue #7604: Buildings "wander" north away from roads https://git.io/fjBBq
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21:45:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #7605: Fix #7593: Crash in ScriptOrder::GetOrderDistance in VT_AIR mode https://git.io/fjBBD
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22:07:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] iigmir updated pull request #7596: Add:Three currencies: NTD, CNY, HKD https://git.io/fjlp7
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