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00:01:18 *** king[m] has joined #openttd 00:07:08 *** Samu_ has quit IRC 00:52:26 *** blim[m] has joined #openttd 00:53:04 *** UncleCJ has joined #openttd 01:12:01 *** ad5twoknebor[m] has joined #openttd 01:19:32 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:53:07 *** glx has quit IRC 01:59:12 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:18:03 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 02:23:15 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:26:33 *** godbed has quit IRC 03:26:35 *** Mahjong1 has joined #openttd 03:31:13 *** Mahjong has quit IRC 04:06:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 04:18:39 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 04:23:28 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has quit IRC 04:45:53 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:12:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 05:39:08 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:07:47 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 07:19:38 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:59:08 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:00:56 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 08:25:05 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:50:07 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:10:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:38:14 <peter1138> Is it lunch time? 09:40:36 <andythenorth> I accidentally ate lunch 09:41:14 <peter1138> Well, I had dinner this morning. 09:41:28 <peter1138> It was about half-past midnight. 09:41:35 <peter1138> Kinda late but. 09:41:49 <peter1138> I'd only had about 1300 carolies so needed something. 10:14:12 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 10:16:50 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 10:55:43 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 11:31:10 *** gareppa has joined #openttd 11:32:29 *** gareppa has quit IRC 11:40:50 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:29:47 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 12:58:32 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:59:02 *** tokai has joined #openttd 12:59:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 13:05:49 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 13:06:27 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:18:41 <andythenorth> is it lunch again? 13:21:44 <peter1138> Yes, Lunch Redux. 13:22:45 <andythenorth> what should I have? 13:23:42 <peter1138> Macaroni Cheese, probably. 13:23:52 <peter1138> I had salad, obviously. 13:41:51 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 14:01:35 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:04:08 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 14:15:01 *** lpx has quit IRC 14:20:29 *** lpx has joined #openttd 14:20:39 *** Samu_ has joined #openttd 14:21:48 *** Samu has quit IRC 14:29:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i got promised steak tonight 14:34:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 14:42:17 *** gelignite has quit IRC 14:45:51 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 14:46:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:58:12 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:58:38 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 15:04:33 *** grossing has quit IRC 15:13:46 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 15:45:31 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 15:46:08 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 15:52:45 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:02:41 *** gareppa has joined #openttd 16:06:40 *** gareppa has quit IRC 16:11:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 16:17:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 16:28:27 <andythenorth> well 16:30:18 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:35:50 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:14:14 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 17:18:52 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 17:45:16 <frosch123> so, V ruined his coworker's love for factorio by theory-talking factory designs :p 17:45:27 <frosch123> only a #coop person could achieve that 17:45:56 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:47:11 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 17:49:12 <V453000> :( 17:53:47 <frosch123> at least there a 3 people with ttd/ottd background on the team :) 17:54:31 <V453000> :) 17:54:39 <V453000> ruined their openttd even more :P 17:56:20 <frosch123> did they found a support group for coop-suffering? 17:57:48 <V453000> no they just avoided touching any train game ever since 18:01:28 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:31:15 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, is that like promised lands? 18:37:01 *** Progman has quit IRC 18:50:49 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:50:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:04:35 *** Progman has joined #openttd 19:08:33 *** Progman has quit IRC 19:23:20 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: are these lands delicious when put on a grill? 19:26:44 * andythenorth had lamb rice chips halloumi 19:29:33 * peter1138 is having frozen-veg medley with boiled marrow and chicken meatballs. Traditional "eh, whatever" fayre... 19:30:54 *** _FlaFGiraF_ has quit IRC 19:38:18 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:03:44 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:02:46 <Eddi|zuHause> soo... astroneer update 21:03:08 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: ooh 21:03:13 <LordAro> anything fun? 21:05:01 <Eddi|zuHause> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/784105063657988555/9EA65E90E3E085739C68FB7FA6DCB644E212D519/ <-- i kinda like the "tall platform" (left), but the "tall storage" (right) is kinda meh 21:06:09 <Eddi|zuHause> haven't delved much deeper than that yet 21:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> need more bits to research the new stuff 21:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also some storage silo thing in the screenshot which seems neat 21:07:30 <peter1138> I... haven't played it for so long. I don't know what I'm supposed to do now :/ 21:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the new storage silo looks weird on the medium rocket, but i guess it triples the amount of stuff i can take with me 21:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i should finally make that leap to search for iron on another planet, instead of hoping i happen across a third piece of processed scrap on the starting planet 21:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> (with three pieces of scrap i could trade for iron, which would allow me to build a shredder and make more scrap) 21:14:50 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the recent patchnotes also said they made the core structure provide oxygen, so i might go back there and work on the puzzle 21:14:52 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:15:39 *** Progman has joined #openttd 21:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause> what doesn't help is that i still haven't gotten a new computer, and am still scraping at the single-digit fps 21:22:43 <andythenorth> oh Eddi|zuHause :( 21:22:46 <andythenorth> just buy a Dell 21:23:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but everybody i talked to recently said to wait for the new ryzen 21:23:27 <andythenorth> should I buy an external GPU? 21:23:53 <Eddi|zuHause> external as in usb plug? 21:25:01 <andythenorth> USB-C / Thunderbolt 21:25:12 <andythenorth> by some witchcraft, it then drives my laptop display 21:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm unsure about GPUs... my current one cost 100€ back when i bought it, but 100€ GPUs today have barely any performance gain (according to benchmarks) 21:25:39 <peter1138> Hmm, apparently I don't even have a savegame. 21:26:11 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i think they wiped early-access savegames 21:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i'm out to at least a 200€ CPU, 200€ mainboard and 200€ GPU, and i'm almost at the price of my previous PC, and haven't got any other stuff like a case, SSD, RAM, ... 21:28:59 <andythenorth> "Depending on the game, the Iris Plus 655 will probably be on par with a dedicated GeForce 930M or GeForce 940MX and can handle smooth gameplay in modern titles in low up to medium settings." 21:29:08 <andythenorth> lucky me 21:29:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: afaict, computer prices are now €2k 21:30:04 <andythenorth> they were €600, then €1200, and now they're the price of a good used car 21:30:15 <andythenorth> but we buy them every 5 years not every year 21:30:46 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:30:47 <glx> mac maybe, you can get decent pc for way less than 2k 21:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the last one was 800€-ish, with no monitor and onboard graphics 21:30:55 <milek7_> 200eur motherboard is rather expensive? 21:32:04 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7_: there was still some fuzz about motherboards for the next gen ryzen, but it was said they were going to be on the expensive side 21:32:51 <milek7_> it wouldn't be still AM4? 21:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> probably, but with some bios tweaks and higher ram speed? 21:33:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not really knowledgable on that sector 21:34:11 <andythenorth> so how much is a decent PC? 21:34:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ... depends 21:34:38 <peter1138> andythenorth, don't confuse "mac" with "computer" 21:35:01 <andythenorth> I looked at switching to HP last year 21:35:13 <andythenorth> because Apple looked like they were losing the plot 21:35:25 <andythenorth> there's no price saving on laptops 21:35:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can probably go a long way with an ALDI-PC and slapping a decend GPU in 21:35:53 <andythenorth> how much is a decent GPU? 21:36:00 <andythenorth> they seem to be > €1k 21:36:36 <peter1138> No, that's high-end more-money-than-sense gamer GPUs. 21:36:38 <Eddi|zuHause> GPU speed seemed to be linear with price in the ranges i looked at 21:36:45 <peter1138> A decent GPU is still 100-200. 21:36:57 <Eddi|zuHause> which is 100-400€ 21:38:57 <andythenorth> eh SSDs caught up 21:38:59 * andythenorth looking 21:40:50 <milek7_> funny, my cpu is from 2009. back in 2009 cpu from 1999 would be useless 21:41:07 <Eddi|zuHause> same here 21:41:23 <andythenorth> hmm SSDs are confusing 21:41:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the important stat of SSDs is continuous write speed, but they never tell you that stat 21:42:10 <andythenorth> I have an app that benchmarks it for as long as you want to leave it running :P 21:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but you can only run that app if you already bought it 21:42:35 <andythenorth> that is the sad thing 21:42:56 <andythenorth> quoted speeds are very variable from manufacturers 21:42:56 <nielsm> I think the wisdom for SSDs now is that pretty much any recent model is "good enough", WD Blue is a good middle ground, and samsung are expensive for name brand but not any better than the rest 21:43:17 <andythenorth> mine's some kind of 'soldered to the motherboard' thing 21:43:56 <nielsm> and unless you're doing heavy data/media processing (like 4k video or a bunch of VMs at the same time) then paying extra for NVMe is not worth it, but if you can get NVMe for little or no extra price you may as well 21:44:37 <andythenorth> I just like fast backups 21:45:05 <andythenorth> I have 2GB/s on board, but the fastest external I can back up to is about 300MB/s 21:45:46 <andythenorth> I can still remember having spinnng glass disk, not that long ago 21:46:03 <andythenorth> 5400 RPM :P 21:46:31 <milek7_> ssd are still too expensive 21:46:55 <nielsm> you value your time that little? 21:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i still have this cheap 2.5" ssd from 5 years ago 21:47:22 <nielsm> the time wasted waiting for spinning platters of rust is unbearable 21:48:24 <nielsm> a fast computer definitely has solid state storage, a slow computer might not have that 21:48:37 <nielsm> if you get rotating rust then you're guaranteed a slow computer 21:48:43 <andythenorth> never waiting for IO is great 21:48:51 <milek7_> i have ssd for system disk, but honestly it doesn't make that difference 21:48:52 <andythenorth> I only get beachball rarely now 21:49:35 <Eddi|zuHause> milek7_: i don't know what benchmark you put onto that, but when i put in my SSD, boot time was like 1/10th of before 21:51:07 <andythenorth> is a Radeon RX 560 any good? 21:51:25 <glx> to heat a room yes ;) 21:51:52 <andythenorth> apparently it allows 'some modern titles' to be played 21:51:54 <andythenorth> at lower settings 21:52:14 <andythenorth> it might be able to cope with e-sports, if you're not too demanding 21:52:25 <andythenorth> WTF happened in gaming whilst I was asleep? 21:52:45 <andythenorth> last time I checked in, consoles had won, and high-end gfx cards were for mining crypto 21:53:04 <glx> consoles are low cost pc 21:53:05 <andythenorth> something is weird 21:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> crypto crashed like a year ago? 21:53:18 <andythenorth> and iPad massively outperforms my Mac 21:53:32 <andythenorth> despite being 50% of the price and 50% of the size 21:53:47 * andythenorth very confused by technology 21:53:53 <glx> well it's Apple doing stuff ;) 21:54:15 <glx> nice design, high price, useless ;) 21:54:28 <andythenorth> that doesn't make any sennse 21:54:40 <andythenorth> how does that lead to iPads that outperform high end laptops? 21:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you're comparing apples with apples... 21:55:10 <andythenorth> iPads are just a useless chunk of glass 21:55:21 <glx> iPad SoC is optimised for the size 21:55:23 <milek7_> i have rx580 and it's ok on AMDGPU 21:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> what you need is oranges 21:55:30 <milek7_> but Windows drivers are garbage 21:55:49 <glx> laptop using standard cpu/gpu can't compete 21:55:52 <andythenorth> https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph13661/103804.png 21:56:17 <glx> they need to be slowed down for battery saving and less efficient cooling 21:56:21 <andythenorth> https://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph13661/103785.png 21:57:07 <andythenorth> the most lolz result https://img.purch.com/ipad-pro-video-editing-jpg/o/aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS82L0gvODA4OTM3L29yaWdpbmFsL2lQYWQtUHJvLVZpZGVvLUVkaXRpbmcuanBn 21:57:15 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i thought graphics cards are mostly affected by memory size, less by gpu 21:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: can you elaborate? 21:57:57 <frosch123> i need to fit all the textures into vram to play factorio properly 21:58:24 <andythenorth> maybe I should compile FIRS on an iPad 21:58:31 <andythenorth> oh no wait, it's a crippled walled garden 21:58:33 <andythenorth> I can't 21:58:46 <frosch123> maybe the question is whether you need high dpi/resolution or high frame rate 21:59:03 <frosch123> my games do not need high frame rate, but they usually care about huge screens 21:59:16 <glx> he needs high dpi, else it's ugly on his mac screen ;) 21:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i want 1080p, possibly dual-screen 21:59:59 <glx> most gpu can handle that now I think 22:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: not my 5 year old 100€ one 22:00:40 <andythenorth> is hidpi not standard? 22:00:41 <glx> yeah my GTS450 is too limited ;) 22:01:04 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: even though they improved driver by several orders of magnitude, every game update brings it back down to its knees 22:01:21 <glx> driver is not updated now 22:01:27 <glx> too old 22:02:17 <glx> but if I buy a new GPU I'll need an hdmi-to-vga converter 22:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> radeon linux driver made some massive leaps about a year ago with pushing vulkan technology 22:02:42 <Eddi|zuHause> huh? your screen uses VGA? 22:02:46 <glx> I don't wan't to replace a perfectly working screen 22:03:00 <andythenorth> I had a monitor once 22:03:01 <frosch123> yeah, i wonder whether my nvidia will be affected when upgrading to next debian 22:03:02 <andythenorth> years ago 22:03:14 <frosch123> i read some nvidia api was trashed from the kernel 22:03:30 <andythenorth> hmm 22:03:33 <andythenorth> bedtime very 22:03:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood how they produce digital screens without a DVI input 22:03:56 <frosch123> glx: you use an analog screen? 22:04:04 <frosch123> digital screens are so much sharper 22:04:17 <andythenorth> I used to like the blurry dots 22:04:21 <andythenorth> I miss all that 22:04:35 <glx> it's an lcd 22:04:37 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:04:58 <Eddi|zuHause> all my screens in the last... 15 years? ... had DVI 22:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> well, basically that's two... 22:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> before that i had a giant CRT 22:05:33 <frosch123> i have not seen dvi in past 10 years 22:05:49 <glx> DVI on some models as stated in the manual 22:05:55 <glx> not for mine 22:06:11 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: like i said, i never understood how that is... 22:06:27 <frosch123> i am mostly confused about displayport vs hdmi 22:06:41 <frosch123> for some reason notebooks often have hdmi 22:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it's easy, there's about 10 versions of each 22:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: and all are marginally incompatible with each other 22:07:53 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i had the opposite experience. laptop with DP out and screen with HDMI in 22:08:07 <glx> manual says march 2008 22:08:48 <frosch123> 2008 means 4:3? 22:08:56 <glx> 16:10 22:09:26 <glx> 1680x1050 22:10:33 <milek7_> for some reason TVs never have displayport 22:11:41 <glx> devices intended to be plugged in TV are usually HDMI 22:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause> if i can trust my screenshots i got my 16:10 screen around mid 2007 (with DVI) 22:13:53 <peter1138> And still 16:10 even now. 22:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and 16:9 around mid 2012 22:16:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (the 16:10 screen died like 3 days after the 5 year warranty ran out) 22:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the 16:9 might also have HDMI, but i can't be bothered to check... 22:18:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i never had a HDMI cable 22:25:29 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 22:36:16 <planetmaker> hm... so two 27" at 4k. Or only one 43" at 4k? :P 22:37:20 <frosch123> i haven't seen a curved 32:9 screen in person 22:37:36 <frosch123> so, no idea whether it is as nice as it is hyped 22:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds out of my price range :p 22:38:10 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i got two of the cheapest 16:9 screens in 2010, good enouigh for me 22:38:38 <Eddi|zuHause> my one 16:9 screen cost about 300€ i think 22:38:58 <frosch123> that's about the sum of the two 22:39:03 <Eddi|zuHause> 27" 22:39:27 <frosch123> mine are smaller, or i would need a larger table 22:39:41 <frosch123> i measured that before buying :p 22:39:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i would need to redecorate if i got a second one 22:40:32 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 22:40:38 <frosch123> if you want two, better get two identical ones 22:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and some voice in the back of my head tells me it'd be cooler if i got two narrower screens 22:41:02 <frosch123> some of my coworkers have different old ones, and it's quite irritating that the colors never match 22:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> to put left and right of the current one 22:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> color correction is weird 22:42:02 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, some people use a landscape one in the middle, and a portrait one on each side 22:42:16 <frosch123> they love the portrait ones for consoles 22:42:18 <planetmaker> one of my 24" died... so I need something new :P 22:44:06 <planetmaker> and identical as the remaining... not sure I find that 22:44:10 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i suppose there's no 4:3 or 5:4 monitors of the same height as my 16:9 monitor 22:44:39 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: even identical wouldn't mean it got the same colours 22:44:55 <planetmaker> well, but reasonably close 22:45:13 <frosch123> planetmaker: the colour changes with the age 22:45:13 <planetmaker> They should allow colour calibration 22:45:21 <frosch123> so, same model, one year difference, is noticeable 22:45:38 <planetmaker> hm, yeah 22:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: true colour calibration needs a device that can read the actual displayed colours 22:46:16 <planetmaker> there are a select few which come colour-calibrated out-of-factory. Or so they claim 22:46:26 <planetmaker> I think some... phillips? 22:46:34 <frosch123> sounds expensive :p 22:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that still doesn't correct for aging 22:47:02 <peter1138> Eizo, but they're expensive, and yeah, colours change with age. 22:47:18 <planetmaker> it actually was not super duper expensive - much to my surprise 22:47:36 <planetmaker> similar to what other manufacturers had for similar specs w/o calibration 22:47:53 <planetmaker> but... well... it's not exactly my most important point 22:49:28 <planetmaker> I'm currently inclined for one big monitor slightly... can double as TV better than 2 smaller ones 22:49:49 <planetmaker> and with 4k pixels would still be larger than 2 fullHD 22:50:00 <frosch123> planetmaker: those have different ratios 22:50:13 <frosch123> for a tv you want 16:9, for wokring you want 32:9 22:50:29 <planetmaker> true 22:51:01 <frosch123> also, if you put the tv on one, and work on the other, you do not need to care about colour matching :p 22:51:44 <planetmaker> :D 22:52:02 <planetmaker> But sometimes I want... when I compare photos 22:52:06 * peter1138 has 48:10 22:52:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid i won't have space for 3 widescreen monitors :p 22:53:11 <Eddi|zuHause> well, not unless i also invest in a new desk 22:53:27 <planetmaker> My desk can probably fit 2*32". But not more 22:53:34 <planetmaker> definitely not more 22:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and possibly a new room layout 22:53:51 <nielsm> get a monitor arm and you can fit much more 22:53:52 <Eddi|zuHause> or a new room 22:54:14 <planetmaker> well... no... left is a wall. and right is a cupboard :P 22:54:18 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 22:54:53 <planetmaker> unless I start also to rearrange my whole room :P 22:54:57 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 23:14:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 23:20:53 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 23:21:32 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:40:26 *** grossing has joined #openttd 23:50:28 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:58:53 *** Progman has quit IRC