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Log for #openttd on 7th July 2019:
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01:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> is that just me or is https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling looking a bit outdated?
01:46:08  <glx> msys2 is ok I think, MSVC 2015 is valid for 2015, 2017 and 2019
01:46:56  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but maybe the "historic" ones could be removed from the list?
01:48:18  <glx> maybe
01:50:23  <Eddi|zuHause> a separate "Compiling: Historic" category?
01:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> no idea how you create and manage categories
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05:24:37  <reldred> hmm, I wonder if I can abuse callback 157 to use it like callback 17 for houses since both get called before the item is actually built
05:47:45  <reldred> there we go, var62 I can get tile height out of
05:49:17  <reldred> so spam the spawncount really high, only allow building on flats, use callback157+var62 to allow building at sea level or one or two levels above. Should be able to spawn some marsh/swamp areas in scenarios.
05:49:25  <reldred> found some sprites that'd do the job
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06:24:54  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like it should work
06:29:39  <reldred> Yeah plus I figure some multi tile arrangements will keep it from spawning too high up anyway
06:30:06  <reldred> There's no snowy sprites for these objects but they have no business being above a snow line anyway
06:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you could also check against the (minimum) snow line?
06:30:31  <reldred> True! that would be a far easier check too
06:30:45  <reldred> Ideally I want them close to sea level anyway
06:30:50  <reldred> We'll see
06:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause> (snow line can move throughout the year with newgrfs)
06:31:14  <reldred> I know, I play with snowline wandering between 12 and 48 usually
06:31:26  <reldred> makes maps really dynamic
06:31:41  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it's a neat feature
06:31:48  <reldred> will be interesting to see if the realtime patch makes it through all the hurdles infront of it
06:32:09  <reldred> because that's a complaint I heard from some coworkers who once ran servers, time moved far too quickly.
06:32:10  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a long way, i'm afraid
06:32:17  <reldred> Yeah no kidding
06:32:30  <reldred> I do like the author of that patches enthusiasm though
06:33:30  <Eddi|zuHause> enthusiasm gets you a long way, but you need to fill the gaps with competence and persistence
06:34:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #7641: Attempting to create an array of size 2147483648 and up crashes the whole game, not just the script. https://git.io/fjiYv
06:34:22  <reldred> None of those three are qualities I possess so I'll stand back in awe of anyone who has even just one of them ;-)
06:34:58  <Eddi|zuHause> all the other daylength patches failed on one of those 3
06:35:33  <reldred> I'm still stoked that NRT finally made it. Thread created Dec 26th 2016.
06:35:47  <reldred> Just waiting on JGR's patchpack to re-base against master again.
06:36:05  <Eddi|zuHause> cargodist spent like 5 years in this intermediate stage
06:36:14  <reldred> Yeah
06:36:40  <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen had some mighty persistence :p
06:36:42  <reldred> I have to keep reminding myself that time moves slowly
06:37:15  <reldred> I do love cargodist now that it's in trunk, I was playing JGR's patchpack until NRT hit trunk thinking that cargodist was still only in their branch
06:37:32  <reldred> But I miss the everest patch and custombridgeheads.
06:37:58  <Eddi|zuHause> what everest patch?
06:38:36  <reldred> Does some things to tree gen, alpine trees only spawn around a configurable band around the base snowline, and nothing above it. Temperate trees spawn below.
06:38:44  <reldred> So with a shifting snowline you have to tweak things.
06:39:12  <reldred> But gives you this lovely difference visually to the mountain ranges and then you get an accurate barren mountaintops.
06:39:23  <reldred> when the snowline then recedes and the rocks show up it looks quite pretty.
06:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds neat
06:39:44  <Eddi|zuHause> and not particularly difficult to implement
06:39:59  <reldred> https://twitter.com/reldredrants/status/1142339991403503617
06:40:35  <reldred> using stolen trees for temperate replacement adn opengfx+ trees for that screenshot
06:41:49  <Eddi|zuHause> a bit too steep terrain for my taste. with all those slopes it's difficult to terraform doubletracks without destroying half a mountain (without cliffs)
06:42:10  <reldred> Well for a lot of my custom heightmaps I use those mountains as a very big incentive to go around
06:42:24  <reldred> Force chokepoints along coastlines
06:42:47  <reldred> I'm playing with maxheight 255 on one of them now.
06:43:42  <reldred> And yeah, it's savage
06:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, but i'd like my tracks actually climbing a mountain pass once in a while
06:43:59  <reldred> I still have some smaller mountains
06:44:12  <reldred> And theres some passes where you can make the climb if you're game.
06:44:19  <Eddi|zuHause> but with all these steep slopes you can't even build sensible tunnels
06:45:17  <reldred> See I'm one of those freaks who wants Rollercoast Tycoon style terrain deformation, lack of visibility/map rotation be damned :P
06:45:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, cliffs
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06:47:11  <Eddi|zuHause> but that's a bit more involved to implement
06:47:20  <reldred> No kidding.
06:47:48  <Eddi|zuHause> but probably not nearly on the level of daylength
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06:48:05  <reldred> Who do I need to sponsor then? :P
06:48:12  <reldred> and what will it cost me? :P
06:48:21  <Eddi|zuHause> everything.
06:48:39  <reldred> hah
06:55:00  <reldred> alas, if I were rich
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07:10:48  <andythenorth> yo
07:12:20  <reldred> aloha
07:22:47  <andythenorth> @seen frosch123
07:22:47  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 27 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <frosch123> iron moose
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07:46:25  <reldred> the moose is loose
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08:24:47  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7641: Attempting to create an array of size 2147483648 and up crashes the whole game, not just the script. https://git.io/fjiY9
08:36:59  <andythenorth> hmm
08:37:08  <andythenorth> game balance
08:37:11  <andythenorth> power creep problems
08:37:48  <Arveen> moin
08:40:45  <Arveen> did anyone play the Voxel Tycoon pre-aplha yet ? i'm watching on twitch and wondering if you can build "OTTD-style" networks there
08:42:51  <nielsm> I saw some videos of it yesterday on youtube, but didn't watch much of it
08:43:46  <nielsm> (the guy playing had the typical problem of not being attentive on the game and being excessively slow, which I can't stand)
08:44:48  <andythenorth> so
08:45:01  <Arveen> hehe, i see that problem
08:45:02  <andythenorth> how about a chart of transported cargo, broken down by cargo type? :)
08:45:24  <andythenorth> we have a delivered cargo graph already....
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10:08:40  <reldred> UGH
10:08:45  <reldred> finally got nmlc running
10:15:35  <reldred> aaaaand I'm gonna guess there's a specific version of nml required for NRT
10:16:07  <nielsm> probably... I'm not sure the NRT changes are even integrated in NML master
10:57:24  <reldred> Fair
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11:26:48  <andythenorth> power creep :P
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11:30:06  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7641: Attempting to create an array of size 2147483648 and up crashes the whole game, not just the script. https://git.io/fji3E
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13:24:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7621: Feature: Town name filtering https://git.io/fjisF
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14:31:55  <LordAro> thoughts on #7616 ? i'm tempted to reject
14:32:11  <LordAro> on grounds of "it really doesn't matter"
14:34:07  <nielsm> agree
14:34:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7612: Feature: Allow showing Newspaper and Ticker messages in parallel https://git.io/fjiGo
14:34:40  <nielsm> "difficult to calculate" is also not an argument, the computer does the calculation for you
14:34:47  <LordAro> aye
14:34:54  <nielsm> if you want to know what the price is in £ then just play in £
14:35:02  <LordAro> and i've no idea why you'd be converting between the 2 yourself
14:35:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed pull request #7616: Codechange: Change KRW currency rate https://git.io/fjuBp
14:35:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7616: Codechange: Change KRW currency rate https://git.io/fjiG6
14:36:15  <nielsm> as an add-on, if you change the conversion rate, people loading old saves are going to be confused why their cash on hand suddenly changed
14:36:20  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7617: Fix #5685: Check for free wagons in ScriptVehicleList https://git.io/fjiGP
14:36:35  <LordAro> ah, i can't force merge that
14:36:38  <andythenorth> Horse 91%
14:36:41  <LordAro> where's glx? :p
14:38:32  <LordAro> maybe i can check out the branch locally and force push ...
14:38:43  <nielsm> I think you can
14:38:52  <LordAro> assuming they've allowed it
14:39:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it's on by default
14:46:37  <Samu> gonna use https://www.random.org/ to generate openttd.cfg for the last round :o
14:46:45  <Samu> nobody sent me any PM
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14:54:16  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7617: Fix #5685: Check for free wagons in ScriptVehicleList https://git.io/fjiGP
14:54:17  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7617: Fix #5685: Check for free wagons in ScriptVehicleList https://git.io/fjuy6
14:54:24  <LordAro> woo
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14:55:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7617: Fix #5685: Check for free wagons in ScriptVehicleList https://git.io/fjiGb
14:55:58  <Samu> lol, only 180 road vehicles
14:56:09  <Samu> this is gonna cause some weird results
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15:02:14  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7617: Fix #5685: Check for free wagons in ScriptVehicleList https://git.io/fjuy6
15:02:22  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #5685: AI: wagons are lost in depot because of lack of API feature https://git.io/fjiZU
15:09:29  <andythenorth> ooh
15:09:34  <andythenorth> GH cleaning? :)
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15:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: only if you clean it by merging
15:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i should make some food...
15:15:51  * andythenorth had 3 lunches
15:16:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 commented on pull request #7616: Codechange: Change KRW currency rate https://git.io/fjiZO
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15:17:31  <LordAro> that's interesting.. MSYS is no longer detecting my OS
15:17:44  <LordAro> or rather, configure is no longer detecting my OS on MSYS
15:20:06  <LordAro> false alarm, is was in the MSYS terminal, not MinGW
15:20:14  <LordAro> stupid unnecessary distinction
15:21:35  <glx> usually you don't need to use MSYS terminal
15:21:51  <glx> it's only required to develop MSYS tools
15:21:58  <LordAro> we use it at work for <poorly defined reasons>
15:22:08  <LordAro> forcing things to detect MinGW is ...a pain
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15:34:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7605: Fix #7593: Crash in ScriptOrder::GetOrderDistance in VT_AIR mode https://git.io/fjBBD
15:34:16  <LordAro> pretty sure i don't get to review that anymore
15:34:24  <LordAro> nielsm: ^ ?
15:36:48  <glx> looking at it
15:37:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro dismissed a review for pull request #7605: Fix #7593: Crash in ScriptOrder::GetOrderDistance in VT_AIR mode https://git.io/fjzqs
15:42:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7605: Fix #7593: Crash in ScriptOrder::GetOrderDistance in VT_AIR mode https://git.io/fjiZV
15:43:33  <glx> hmm too fast
15:45:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7605: Fix #7593: Crash in ScriptOrder::GetOrderDistance in VT_AIR mode https://git.io/fjiZr
15:45:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #7605: Fix #7593: Crash in ScriptOrder::GetOrderDistance in VT_AIR mode https://git.io/fjiZV
15:47:25  <glx> GetByTile() uses GetStationIndex(tile) which expects an MP_STATION tile
15:48:18  <LordAro> yeah, i was mistakenly looking at BaseStation originally, which is a pool object thingy, which doesn't assert in the same way
15:48:25  <LordAro> then forgot to go back and update it
15:48:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7605: Fix #7593: Crash in ScriptOrder::GetOrderDistance in VT_AIR mode https://git.io/fjBBD
15:49:56  <michi_cc> Q regarding #7480: Do we want to meddle in translations nobody (presumable) really knowns, or do we strictly let translators deal with it? And do we even have a translator for arabic egypt?
15:50:54  <LordAro> probably not
15:51:21  <LordAro> i think it's acceptable to manually "step in" to translations when there's a bug open about it
15:51:36  <LordAro> and when the solution is perhaps not obvious from the translators point of view
15:51:53  <michi_cc> As far as I can determine with Google Translator comparisons, the proposed changed are at least not worse and probably better than existing.-
15:52:05  <glx> yeah we usually touch translations when they break compilation, but that's the only valid case I think
15:53:05  <michi_cc> So one vote for yes, one for no.
15:54:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7605: Fix #7593: Crash in ScriptOrder::GetOrderDistance in VT_AIR mode https://git.io/fjiZ1
15:59:36  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16 https://git.io/fjiZD
16:08:39  <michi_cc> Who's going to be the tie breaker for #7480? I'd merge it, but then I'm not impartial.
16:10:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i actually did make food...
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16:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: if it's purely syntactical changes, i don't see why we should go through the extra step and pipe it through the webtranslator. the changed strings should come up in webtranslator to be doublechecked when a translator comes around, though
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16:23:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7480: Fix #6666: brackets in arabic strings https://git.io/fjinU
16:30:54  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7480: Fix #6666: brackets in arabic strings https://git.io/fjLdR
16:31:02  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #6666: Town name list in Arabic https://git.io/fjinm
16:33:47  <LordAro> :)
16:34:04  <LordAro> shall we actually get 1.9.2 out of the door?
16:34:07  <LordAro> what still needs to be done?
16:34:29  <LordAro> or is it waiting on #7560?
16:34:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7632: Update: Changelog for 1.9.2 and prepare for release https://git.io/fjKU8
16:35:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7632: Backports and changelog for 1.9.2 https://git.io/fjin3
16:35:33  <michi_cc> LordAro: See my comment :)
16:35:46  <LordAro> just saw it :)
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16:37:30  <LordAro> in which case... go for it?
16:38:13  <michi_cc> So you validated #7560? :p
16:38:43  <LordAro> not really, but if it fixes _dp_'s problem and doesn't break anyone else's...
16:39:34  <michi_cc> That's the question, isn't it? I don't play network games with goal scripts...
16:43:22  <Eddi|zuHause> what's the worst thing that can happen (TM) :p
16:43:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7632: Backports and changelog for 1.9.2 https://git.io/fjKU8
16:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause> it's only network code, why would you be concerned about whether it's correct :p
16:43:51  <michi_cc> Changelog typo.
16:43:52  <nielsm> michi_cc: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7620 should perhaps also be backported
16:43:56  <nielsm> forgot to tag it I think?
16:44:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16 https://git.io/fjinZ
16:45:21  <LordAro> nielsm: quite a large change...
16:45:26  <LordAro> probably not an issue though
17:06:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16 https://git.io/fjinB
17:09:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7632: Backports and changelog for 1.9.2 https://git.io/fjKU8
17:09:53  <michi_cc> nielsm: Can you have a look at the new commit? I had to faff around a bit with the midi fixes as 1.9 is still pre-C++11.
17:10:50  <LordAro> (officially)
17:27:34  <nielsm> michi_cc: the critical section taken at the start of the timer callback is supposed to be held for the entire callback now, not just the first half
17:30:43  <LordAro> thoughts on #7522 ? close, or fix-manually-then-merge ?
17:30:54  <LordAro> it doesn't matter much either way
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17:37:11  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: that seems to be the kind of thing where you go "if the original author can't be bothered to fix it, better let it die"
17:37:46  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: equally, they'll notice when it's closed :p
17:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> add a stalebot-like reply and close it
17:40:01  <andythenorth>  oh
17:40:16  * andythenorth is picking fictional train names but turns out they're real :P
17:40:21  <andythenorth> convergent evolution?
17:40:28  <andythenorth> or forgotten prior information?
17:40:30  <michi_cc> nielsm: Okay, I'll move the release.
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17:44:19  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7632: Backports and changelog for 1.9.2 https://git.io/fjKU8
17:44:25  <michi_cc> nielsm: Better?
17:49:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone opened pull request #7642: Fix #7250: Viewport kdtree not being updated for waypoints when sign … https://git.io/fjinh
17:54:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019 https://git.io/fjZhM
17:54:29  <nielsm> michi_cc ah no, you'll also have to change this line: if (TryEnterCriticalSection(&_midi.lock)) {
17:54:41  <nielsm> into: if (!TryEnterCriticalSection(&_midi.lock)) return; \n {
17:55:25  <nielsm> (so the block isn't related to the if any more, just to avoid changing indentation of it all)
17:55:48  <Eddi|zuHause> nice change, but we still have no content for the blog post :p
17:56:14  <nielsm> otherwise the callback can run and skip the first block but still play back stuff and then try to release a critical section it did not take
17:56:17  <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Maybe a release.
17:56:26  <michi_cc> nielsm: Yeah, I see. One second.
17:57:30  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7632: Backports and changelog for 1.9.2 https://git.io/fjKU8
17:58:34  <nielsm> it looks right now
17:58:44  <nielsm> I'll check it out and test a bit locally when I'm done cooking
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18:08:51  * andythenorth gone down a rabbit hole
18:08:57  <andythenorth> vehicles statistics and roles
18:09:04  <andythenorth> game design fundamentals
18:09:08  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7642: Fix #7250: Viewport kdtree not being updated for waypoints when sign … https://git.io/fjicZ
18:09:52  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: might be a bit late in the development stage for that kind of change
18:10:08  <andythenorth> it would be
18:10:16  <andythenorth> except that's where Horse 2 started
18:10:25  <andythenorth> I'm just more familiar with the concepts now
18:10:29  <andythenorth> especially power creep :P
18:11:50  <andythenorth> also realisms question
18:12:11  <andythenorth> sometimes IRL n engines doesn't give n * the power
18:12:23  <andythenorth> because the additional engines have to be derated for $reasons
18:12:33  <andythenorth> including pulling the second engine into two pieces
18:12:38  <andythenorth> game feature? :P
18:13:18  <nielsm> immediate breakdown and exploding maintenance cost
18:15:37  <andythenorth> so the useful gap between engine power bands seems to be about 500-700HP
18:15:50  * andythenorth has no question, just observation
18:16:15  <andythenorth> seems to equate to 1-2 tiles more wagons per increase
18:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm> immediate breakdown and exploding maintenance cost <-- need to merge improved breakdowns patch
18:35:06  <nielsm> someone did refresh that one a little while back
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18:46:54  <andythenorth> Horse 90%
18:46:56  <andythenorth> added more trains :P
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19:46:10  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it'll never be 100%
19:46:36  <andythenorth> every time I get to 90% I release it :P
19:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like a plan
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20:06:11  <michi_cc> Anybody going to approve the release PR?
20:07:22  <nielsm> uh let me build and test it quickly...
20:08:55  <nielsm> (except it's going to take a while)
20:15:32  <nielsm> wth... the midi reset stuff does not work now?
20:15:34  <nielsm> D:
20:15:49  <nielsm> the new code is obviously executing since it does something different
20:15:59  <nielsm> but the pitch bend range is not being reset as it was when I tested
20:26:15  <nielsm> wow uh
20:26:25  <nielsm> somehow I made a mistake in the GM reset byte sequence
20:30:09  <LordAro> is this the cause of all the other music complaints? :p
20:30:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7643: Fix 27384486e4: Error in GM Reset sysex data https://git.io/fjiC1
20:31:04  <nielsm> not quite, since the code currently in 1.9.1 only sends GM reset once on startup, not between every song
20:35:52  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7643: Fix 27384486e4: Error in GM Reset sysex data https://git.io/fjiCS
20:36:53  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7632: Backports and changelog for 1.9.2 https://git.io/fjKU8
20:46:24  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7643: Fix 27384486e4: Error in GM Reset sysex data https://git.io/fjiC1
20:49:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7632: Backports and changelog for 1.9.2 https://git.io/fjiCj
20:54:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7632: Backports and changelog for 1.9.2 https://git.io/fjKU8
20:58:00  <michi_cc> Well, I tagged 1.9.2.
20:58:42  <LordAro> \o/
20:58:52  <michi_cc> FYI, I do have some content ideas for the dev post, but I don't think I'll be able to finish it today. You might want to old off on publish it yet.
20:59:26  <LordAro> dev post is now scheduled for 01/08 though :p
20:59:28  <michi_cc> Feel very free to do the 1.9.2 announce post though, when 1.9.2 been spit out by the machinary :p
21:00:17  <michi_cc> LordAro: No, that is the next one. We always link to the branch/commit for the next post.
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