Log for #openttd on 14th July 2019:
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00:22:12  *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd
00:29:29  <Hazzard> How far out will sub tropical lumber mills search for wood :s
00:35:16  <Hazzard> damn its huge
00:37:10  <Hazzard> 20 tiles in each direction
00:41:47  <Beerbelott> glx: Already knew the doc you pointed out... but I'm somehow struggling at resconstructing the binary chain to send for RCON client (authenticated) commands...
00:41:58  <Beerbelott> Trying to read the code of some lib. Not an easy task.
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02:23:48  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... so i have backups of all the partitions that used to be on the broken SSD (made before it broke), but not of the partition table... and i can't seem to make a partition table so it actually boots from this USB device
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02:32:39  <Beerbelott1> It seems is inaccessible
02:33:06  <Beerbelott1> is, redirecting to w/ HTTP 301
02:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause> works here
02:58:49  <Beerbelott1> Tested from my server too, which sits in a remote location
02:59:03  <Beerbelott1> * Connected to (2a03:b0c0:2:d0::dc6:7001) port 80 (#0)
02:59:03  <Beerbelott1> > GET / HTTP/1.1
02:59:03  <Beerbelott1> > Host:
02:59:03  <Beerbelott1> > User-Agent: curl/7.52.1
02:59:03  <Beerbelott1> > Accept: */*
02:59:05  <Beerbelott1> >
02:59:05  <Beerbelott1> * Recv failure: Connection reset by peer
02:59:30  <Eddi|zuHause> does that do https?
02:59:46  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's an IPv6 issue?
03:00:20  <Eddi|zuHause> there maybe was a thing where a thing needed to be updated manually every now and then
03:00:21  <Beerbelott1> Ahhh IPv6
03:00:24  <Beerbelott1> Totally possible
03:00:28  <Beerbelott1> lemme test for that
03:00:49  <Beerbelott1> Yup
03:00:54  <Beerbelott1> IPv4 works fine
03:01:08  <Beerbelott1> IPv6 pb on your box
03:01:13  <Beerbelott1> Lemme guess... Hetzner?
03:01:25  <Eddi|zuHause> don't think so
03:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, there is probably nobody around who can fix it right now
03:01:57  <Beerbelott1> OK. Often when that happens there is a correlation w/ that hoster ^^
03:02:04  <Beerbelott1> Well, bad call there, but it's IPv6 indeed
03:02:17  <Beerbelott1> Well, it's not "critical" I suppose
03:02:45  <Beerbelott1> It's a lil bit weird dual-stacks don't test both version when available... DNS answers both addresses alright
03:03:13  <Beerbelott1> OK off to bed now
03:03:17  <Beerbelott1> C ya 'round
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03:28:00  <glx> yup ipv6 fails here too, probably the proxy
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03:58:08  <reldred> right, I've finally got what I was wishing for, NRT in jgr's patch pack, I've got my custom made tree set all ready to go for that sweet sweet diferentiating folliage, I've got a few custom tweaked building sets all playing nicely together,
03:58:21  <reldred> and do you think I can maintain attention span long enough to actually PLAY it, no.
04:01:05  <Eddi|zuHause> depends how big of a map you play?
04:01:42  <reldred> been hovering around 2048x1024 or 2048x512
04:02:31  <reldred> nah my add has been legit playing silly buggers lately. I can get really engrosed in some stuff and the others I can't get 5mins in
04:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> my experience is if i don't get interrupted by work problems or game breaking bugs, i can get about a month out of a game
04:04:32  <reldred> About the best I can get is around 5days
04:04:57  <reldred> And at the present moment it's about 5 mins
04:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> currently i'm bugged with system instabilities, where about once per day the system freezes up
04:06:02  <reldred> Bugger
04:06:48  <reldred> Yeah I was expecting my self-compile of jgr's nrt branch to be buggy as hell but I've not managed to break it yet
04:08:03  <reldred> Can't get that updated rainfall patch to compile, seems to be drawing on a bunch of includes common in linux systems but not windows
04:09:29  <Eddi|zuHause> can you compile the original?
04:09:38  <reldred> Yup, and jgr's patchpack
04:09:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the unupdated patch
04:10:07  <reldred> it was apparently a long way behind master
04:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you'd have to check out an old version
04:10:40  <reldred> Yeah I didn't go that far into it
04:11:02  <reldred> the old version was pre NRT so I wasn't terribly interested.
04:11:53  <reldred> Now that does remind me, now that I do have a working build environment there was some other things I was going to start poking around with
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05:19:30  <Hazzard> some of this code is wack :D
05:22:36  <Hazzard> Does anyone know if the percentages (of 256) are rounded or truncated?
05:22:43  <Hazzard> for UI display
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06:30:44  <reldred> oh custom bridgeheads, how I've missed you
06:31:51  <peter1138> WHAT
06:31:56  <peter1138> Oh, in JGR?
06:32:01  <reldred> yup
06:32:07  <reldred> I finally compiled his nrt branch
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06:32:16  <peter1138> I keep meaning to try porting that to master but... map arrays and savegame changes :/
06:32:50  <reldred> jgr's branch also has some magic buttons that handle all that scheduling nonsense that I don't understand
06:32:57  <peter1138> Also I thought my milk was curdling but turns out the fridge is so cold it's just partially frozen o_O
06:33:03  <reldred> lol
06:33:23  <peter1138> I suppose at least it'll keep fresh for longer :D
06:33:42  <peter1138> It's raw unpasturised milk.
06:34:24  <reldred> and improved breakdowns! *swoon*
06:34:32  <peter1138> Improved how?
06:34:52  <reldred> more failure states, they don't just break and sit there they can limp along, etc.
06:35:06  <reldred> reduced output, etc.
06:35:06  <peter1138> Hmm.
06:36:39  <peter1138> Definitely not off, it still tastes really good (despite being a week old!)
06:37:39  <reldred> nekminnit brain worms
06:38:02  <peter1138> Probably.
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06:40:36  <reldred> huh, I never noticed the extended zoom out options
06:44:09  <peter1138> Oh dear, I just looked at today's planned ride. To a Café Nero. I really can't be arsed with that.
06:44:26  <reldred> push bike?
06:44:37  <peter1138> Yeah.
06:45:04  <peter1138> And the leader is kinda annoying, slows down or speeds up randomly.
06:45:27  <reldred> I should buy a new push bike
06:45:44  <reldred> since I won't be running any time soon with the arthritis
06:45:52  <peter1138> Oof.
06:46:00  <reldred> yeah doc reckons I have RA
06:46:01  <peter1138> Yeah, cycling is at least low impact.
06:46:16  <peter1138> Anyway, I should have a day off from cycling, I've ridden all week.
06:46:40  <reldred> The problem is my idiot ass would go and buy a hard tail with small wheels and do dumb things on concrete with it.
06:46:52  <peter1138> Hard tail with small wheels...
06:46:54  <peter1138> So a BMX.
06:46:57  <reldred> Not quite
06:47:11  <reldred> BMX's are too small for me, I smash my knees something chronic
06:47:30  <reldred> But yeah drop the wheels a few inches, nothing too wild and they do well on concrete
06:47:41  <reldred> single speed
06:47:50  <peter1138> Other than folding bikes, I don't know what other bikes have small wheels.
06:48:03  <reldred> oh not small small
06:48:07  <reldred> but small for a mtb
06:48:37  <reldred> I _could_ do with a decent folder for sticking in my truck though
06:48:38  <peter1138> So, er, there's 26, 27.5 or 29 generally.
06:48:41  <reldred> or get that bmx replaced
06:48:58  <reldred> s/replaced/repaired/
06:49:32  <reldred> bought that bmx off a very crazy lady in coastal nsw when I was driving to adelaide from queensland
06:49:39  <reldred> just a lazy 3000km drive
06:49:42  <reldred> or thereabouts
06:49:48  <peter1138> I just want more bikes :/
06:50:14  <peter1138> Like I keep thinking a Brompton would be useful... but kinda wasteful.
06:56:49  <Hazzard> Reading the industry source code, is it only possible for industries with multiple types (farms, oil rigs) to close if both their productions reach zero?
06:56:50  <Hazzard>
06:57:14  <peter1138> If you've just read the source you probably know more than anyone else ;)
06:58:07  <nielsm> yeah by default rules a multi-output primary industry can only close when all of its outputs are at minimum
06:58:32  <nielsm> also note that that's for smooth economy, not classic economy
06:59:00  <nielsm> and newgrf industries can override the closure rules with the production change callback
06:59:37  <Hazzard> Hmm neat, thanks nielsm
07:01:47  <Hazzard> source code is a bit hard to read, not confident
07:02:19  <reldred> Ahah. The only foul up I've managed to find in jgr's nrt, custombridgeheads plus nrt plus stations underneath are all fine, until a train is in said station and a tram goes over the top and then the poor sprite sorter loses its goddamn mind.
07:02:21  <Hazzard> I guess the clamp means the production never actually shows up as zero
07:02:30  <reldred> So situation normal then.
07:02:31  <nielsm> it's features layered on features with years of special exceptions added
07:03:00  <nielsm> very much spaghetti
07:03:08  <peter1138> Bridges over stations is a feature I didn't add (after writing it) about 10 years ago, for that very reason.
07:03:52  <reldred> It's fine, and even fine with a train at the station, it's just once a tram goes accross the pylons and everything has a fit.
07:04:10  <reldred> Overall not too bothered, if anything I've been surprised how stable this branch has been.
07:05:12  <reldred> I was thinking the reason he didn't post binaries was because it was unstable but so-far so-good.
07:07:23  <Eddi|zuHause> reldred: sprite sorter is a bit useless if bounding boxes overlap
07:07:37  <reldred> yu
07:07:39  <reldred> yup
07:08:01  <reldred> I have fond memories of coaxing behavior out of the sprite sorter when making stations with overpasses, etc.
07:08:06  <Eddi|zuHause> might need a better heuristic to resolve that case, but solving it one way usually creates more problems elsewhere
07:08:13  <reldred> and by fond I mean painful
07:09:19  <reldred> it's that one thing alone that's probably singlehandedly stopped the suburban stations rework dead in its tracks
07:09:31  <reldred> laid out all the sprites then went fuck now I have to actually code it
07:12:23  <peter1138> Urgh, as much as I like my CH yoke, the 8-bit sampling on the analogue axes is kinda frustrating :/
07:12:48  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe the game should throw error messages for bounding box overlaps, if in newgrf-developer-mode?
07:13:41  <reldred> peter1138: it's only 8bit? :O. I was pondering getting a yoke for star citizen since I mainly fly big ships when I do play it.
07:14:04  <peter1138> Yes, the CH hardware is pretty ancient.
07:14:27  <peter1138> Thinking about swapping the circuitry for a Leo Bodnar thing.
07:15:58  <peter1138> Technically it's enough.
07:16:10  <peter1138> But it feels wrong when you can see the steps in movement.
07:20:33  <peter1138> Hmm, seems there is a bit of a deadzone too :/
07:20:42  <peter1138> Wonder when that started. Hmm.
07:21:23  <peter1138> I tried using yoke & rudder in Elite Dangerous but... Elite's yaw pitch is so crap anyway...
07:21:31  <peter1138> PITCH?
07:21:33  <peter1138> yaw axis..
07:23:34  <peter1138> Hmm, problem with OrbX TrueEarth UK is... the UK is mostly flat :p
07:23:59  <peter1138> There's a bit up north where mountains are visible but when you're at 4-5000 ft it all looks very tame.
07:26:00  <Hazzard> @logs
07:26:00  <DorpsGek> Hazzard:
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07:47:54  <peter1138> I think the G27 pedals are probably 8 bit too, but that hardly matters either.
07:48:25  <peter1138> I did buy some hall-effect sensors to replace the pots with but never go around to doing it. And then lost them.
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08:08:29  <andythenorth> o/
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08:23:58  <peter1138> o\
08:24:32  <peter1138> Uh, what, to change my callsign I have to... edit the plane? o_O
08:27:47  <andythenorth> o_O
08:27:54  * andythenorth wonders
08:28:15  <andythenorth> in the cheat window, for game date, why does the '<' arrow incremement game date?
08:28:31  <andythenorth> I thought I was mis-clicking, but I'm not
08:28:57  <andythenorth> in fact all the '<' arrows are broken
08:29:01  <andythenorth> super :)
08:30:06  * andythenorth wonders if James103 will file an issue about it :)
08:33:01  <andythenorth> hmm, not all, maybe just date and max height
08:38:55  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc opened issue #93: IPv6 broken again
08:39:50  <peter1138> UI scaling issue?
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08:45:25  <reldred> we need more tree sets
08:45:41  <reldred> I should do something about that
08:47:08  <andythenorth> could be UI scaling issue
08:47:23  <peter1138> andythenorth, difficult to test, eh?
08:47:44  <andythenorth> I can only repro it in the cheat window
08:47:52  <andythenorth> can't trigger it in settings
08:48:01  <peter1138> Reproduce it with different UI scales.
08:48:10  <andythenorth> ok
08:48:21  <peter1138> They're separate windows, so... that's likely.
08:49:21  <andythenorth> yeah it triggers at [1x zoom, 2x font] and at [1x zoom, 2x font] and [2x zoom, 2x font]
08:49:42  <andythenorth> how do I record an animated gif? :P
08:51:00  <peter1138> 1x 1x?
08:51:10  <peter1138> No need to record, surely?
08:51:17  <peter1138> Or are you unable to describe things clearly these days?
08:53:06  <andythenorth> the video is just way less verbose :P
08:53:58  <peter1138> Less verbose is less useful.
08:58:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened issue #7655: Cheat window date '<' arrow incremements date
09:00:29  <andythenorth> I added an extra note, moving the mouse further left does get the expected result
09:05:14  <nielsm> the docs on ClickChangeDateCheat does not match the actual code...
09:05:45  <nielsm> "p1 unused" (appears to contain modified year), "p2 +1 (increase) or -1 (decrease)" (is not used at all)
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09:11:21  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7655: Cheat window date '<' arrow incremements date
09:13:38  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #7655: Cheat window date '<' arrow incremements date
09:19:24  * andythenorth BBL
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09:23:00  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain closed issue #93: IPv6 broken again
09:23:01  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
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11:25:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
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11:43:18  <andythenorth> Horse 91%
11:47:01  <nielsm> reaching dangerous levels of completedness
11:57:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
11:57:41  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019
11:58:04  <michi_cc> Quick poll: First or second option for layout: ?
12:06:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16
12:08:28  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
12:12:59  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #93: IPv6 broken again
12:16:07  <michi_cc> andythenorth, LordAro: First or second layout option in
12:20:24  <andythenorth> I vastly prefer the first option
12:20:29  <andythenorth> michi_cc ^
12:20:48  <michi_cc> okay
12:28:40  <LordAro> michi_cc: definitely first
12:28:58  <LordAro> possibly with a little more spacing after the paragraph
12:31:43  <michi_cc> The formatting is just a markdown change, but the spacing would be css messing I think.
12:32:05  <andythenorth> Horse 92%
12:32:11  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7560: Make GSGoal.QuestionClient work correctly at least for clients with ID < 2**16
12:32:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7534: GSGoal.QuestionClient sends message to wrong client
12:32:30  <LordAro> michi_cc: we can worry about that later then
12:32:42  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019
12:33:09  <michi_cc> Please note that the GitHub preview renders differently to our site.
12:35:56  * LordAro spots 2 typos
12:37:30  <michi_cc> You may push changes anytime.
12:38:15  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
12:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause> so, anyone know how one would select the boot partition with gpt?
12:40:10  <Eddi|zuHause> or, where i would get a windows bootloader from?
12:40:47  <nielsm> UEFI or BIOS boot?
12:42:15  <LordAro> michi_cc: i feel the "extension" explanation is unnecessary, given we're assuming people are already familiar with source code
12:42:25  <LordAro> can i remove?
12:43:08  <michi_cc> Our use of both .h and .hpp is not common, if that is in, leaving .cpp out looks wiered.
12:43:41  <LordAro> mm, perhaps
12:44:06  <LordAro> though our differences between hpp & h are usually fairly arbitrary :p
12:44:13  <michi_cc> I.e. both extension are commonly used, but don't have any set meaning.
12:45:45  <michi_cc> And purely from a didactical point of view, IMHO if you split something into parts, simply not saying anything about one part is wrong.
12:48:04  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: not entirely sure, but i assume UEFI
12:48:23  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019
12:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: i have a windows partition and a boot partition, but the partition table stuff got lost
12:48:47  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: and when i create a partition table and move the partitions in, it won't boot from the disk
12:49:05  <LordAro> probably merge it now so we can see it on staging, then tweak anything else
12:49:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019
12:50:43  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper updated pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
12:50:44  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: if you have the windows boot partition (typically a 500 mb FAT32 thing) then you should just be able to point your firmware at the disk and it should auto-detect the boot partition and run the bootloader
12:51:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
12:51:35  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: did i put them in the wrong order?
12:52:21  <nielsm> order shouldn't matter afaik
12:52:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still thinking i'm missing some "this is the boot partition" flag
12:52:59  <Eddi|zuHause> but i've never worked with gpt partitions before
12:53:10  <nielsm> have you tried booting from a windows install usb/dvd and see if the repair boot option can detect the install?
12:53:30  <nielsm> and bbiab, need to take care of laundry
12:53:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i've not, but that should probably be my next try
12:53:53  <michi_cc> LordAro: Should look okay, I even installed jekyll to check. Will still merge though.
12:54:48  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc merged pull request #88: Add: Monthly Dev Post of July 2019
12:54:52  <Eddi|zuHause> "Win 10 1703" iso.. that should work, if i just dd it on a stick, right
12:55:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
12:56:31  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7654: Change: Update for French town name "Beaujolais"
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13:15:06  <andythenorth> Horse 93%
13:21:31  <nielsm> what will happen if that number reaches 100% ?
13:23:47  <michi_cc> Anything looking wrong in ?
13:26:33  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
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13:33:19  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: that will never happen
13:38:17  <andythenorth> it's true
13:38:32  <andythenorth> well, strictly, it's just counting sprites marked as complete
13:38:46  <andythenorth> it doesn't deal with design issues, codebase issues, bugs
13:47:12  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
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14:32:33  <Samu> gi
14:33:41  <Samu> scoring the last 6 rounds atm
14:35:54  <andythenorth> Horse 93%
14:36:00  <andythenorth> :P
14:36:18  <Eddi|zuHause> weren't we there like an hour ago? :p
14:36:24  <andythenorth> 351 trains :P
14:36:34  <andythenorth> each 1% is a few trains to draw :P
14:37:03  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should switch metrics? :p
14:37:07  <andythenorth> might be time
14:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause> 90% done, time for the other 90%
14:38:10  <andythenorth> @calc 24 * 6
14:38:10  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 144
14:38:16  <andythenorth> @call 144 + 351
14:38:24  <andythenorth> @calc 144 + 351
14:38:24  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 495
14:38:38  <andythenorth> soon it will get worse :P
14:38:59  <andythenorth> 500 trains seems like a lot for one roster eh :P
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14:39:22  <Eddi|zuHause> if we add views, your whole project will collapse under its own weight :p
14:39:44  <andythenorth> we probably won't though
14:39:54  <andythenorth> at some point compile time inhibits additions
14:39:57  <andythenorth> also
14:41:01  <andythenorth> "Iron Horse is a minimalist train set"
14:41:06  <andythenorth> not
14:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause> "perfection is not achieved when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove"
14:42:21  <andythenorth> that
14:42:53  <andythenorth> it's a very subtle quote
14:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i probably mangled it a bit
14:44:02  <andythenorth> if I could find a way, I'd remove one whole generation
14:44:13  <andythenorth> but I tried it and it doesn't quite make sense
14:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's your problem
14:45:53  <andythenorth> unusually I don't have many problems with Horse
14:46:07  <andythenorth> I just like deleting things :P
14:46:46  <andythenorth> I could remove some coach / freight wagons
14:47:01  <andythenorth> 'mistakes were made'
14:47:30  <andythenorth> I misunderstood cargo aging, so the wagon design is a little flawed
14:51:50  <Eddi|zuHause> ButRealism(tm)
14:52:25  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] imcasper commented on pull request #7653: Add: BuildVehicleSmartGUI
14:53:02  <andythenorth> strictly speaking, there are 6 luxury passenger coaches that could be deleted
14:53:10  <andythenorth> each with 4 graphical variants
14:53:12  <andythenorth> but eh
14:53:36  <andythenorth> it's also not clear that every generation needs 4 mail wagons :P
14:53:56  <andythenorth> hmm 6 mail wagons actually
14:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> how many length paddings do you need?
14:54:50  <andythenorth> 'some'
14:56:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i think in CETS i have mail vans for passenger trains and mail vans for freight trains (what in other countries would be a caboose)
15:01:26  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
15:01:45  <nielsm> still need to find a way to measure days (or ticks) spent waiting at a signal...
15:02:08  <nielsm> that works reliably and equally for block and path signals
15:02:45  <LordAro> something horrendously inefficient, like a counter per signal
15:02:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted to add a few flags for which speed limit affects a train, you could incorporate that there (signal would impose a speed limit of 0)
15:03:47  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: the signal doesn't know whether a train is waiting on it
15:04:28  <nielsm> I still haven't understood the actual code path taken to pathfind a train past a signal
15:04:31  <LordAro> but what if it did? :p
15:04:44  <nielsm> it seems that for one of the types it needs to run through the code twice for some reason?
15:05:21  <nielsm> and the VRF_TRAIN_STUCK flag is only set for one of the types?
15:05:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i have some vague memory of dealing with that issue years ago with my "stuck trains" hack
15:06:06  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i should dig that up
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15:07:01  <Eddi|zuHause> did i ever post that in the forum?
15:07:21  <nielsm> I don't know
15:08:37  <nielsm>
15:08:55  <nielsm> specifically Train::wait_counter increases at double speed for one signal type
15:09:00  <nielsm> (signal class?)
15:09:47  <nielsm> also that commit subtly changes something else that it shouldn't, see if you can spot it
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16:02:32  <nielsm> time for some testing!
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16:04:47  <nielsm> okay this is probably "good enough"
16:05:14  <nielsm> after waiting at different types of signals for several months there is a slight difference between penalty accrued
16:05:18  <nielsm> but not a major difference
16:05:31  <andythenorth> Horse  94%
16:05:48  <nielsm> (the dark blue number below the "efficiency this year" line is the raw "potential cargotiles delivered" value)
16:07:12  <andythenorth> o_O
16:07:15  <andythenorth> very interesting
16:07:25  <andythenorth> feel like adding lifetime earnings? :P
16:07:28  <andythenorth> and ROI? :P
16:07:38  <nielsm> those could be interesting yes :)
16:08:13  <nielsm> even just a display of "earnings this year" in addition to the "profit this year" could be useful
16:09:51  <michi_cc> nielsm: short-circuited if statements with side effects, how nice :p
16:10:01  <nielsm> michi_cc yeah
16:10:17  <nielsm> well after some more analysis the side effect can safely be moved to the line above
16:10:34  <nielsm> nothing depends on the value apart from that code itself
16:11:01  <nielsm> iow. it's okay for the wait_counter to increment even for "wrong" settings of reverse_at_signals
16:14:49  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
16:15:46  <Samu> 2 rounds remaining
16:15:58  <Samu> 1st and 2nd places are not yet decided :p so exciting
16:17:25  <nielsm> michi_cc: any opinions on this UI?
16:20:05  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] michicc opened pull request #94: Create
16:22:16  <michi_cc> nielsm: Make the vehicle text into two lines and combine the group stats to "Efficiency this (last) year: 76% (73%)" maybe?
16:26:35  <nielsm> can try that
16:26:40  <nielsm> how about the vehicle list itself?
16:36:03  <Samu> last round remaining, the round that was generated via
16:36:13  <Samu> should pose some surprises
16:45:12  <andythenorth> 18 trains left to draw
16:48:11  <andythenorth> jenkins hates me :)
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16:53:39  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency
16:54:34  <Samu> round 47 completed
16:54:41  <Samu> and the tournament winner is...
16:55:05  <Samu> NoNoCAB !!!!!!!!!
16:55:22  <Samu> lies
16:55:25  <Samu> AIAI !!!!!!!
16:55:43  <michi_cc>
16:55:47  <Samu> AIAI v97	2407
16:55:47  <Samu> ; NoNoCAB v6	2377
16:56:03  <Samu> AIAI with 2407 points, NoNoCAB 2nd with 2377 points
16:57:53  <Samu> last place is WmDOT
16:58:05  <Samu> with 120 points
16:58:19  <nielsm> Samu: suggestions for next time: decide on a time limit per game ahead of time, so your running time isn't unbounded (maybe 50 or 100 years), decide on some fixed scenarios ahead of time and test each AI pairing in several different scenarios (doesn't have to be "scenario scenarios", just config and map) so the results are properly comparable
16:58:54  <nielsm> and decide on scoring rules before you begin the testing and figure out if you can make your GS collect some more interesting statistics during each game
17:00:10  <nielsm> maybe plan your scenarios so different qualities of AIs are tested, e.g. how well they perform on small maps, large maps, maps with lots of prebuilt roads, maps with lots of water, mountaneous maps, etc.
17:00:34  <nielsm> few/many industries
17:01:17  <Samu> i tried to diversify the worlds as most as I could
17:01:24  <Samu> the worlds generated
17:01:46  <nielsm> yes but if you test combination A vs B on a different scenario than combination A vs C, they the results of the two tests aren't really comparable
17:02:33  <nielsm> maybe A has an advantage in the first and a disadvantage in the second due to scenario differences, and you couldn't tell if A wins first and loses second because it's better or worse than B or C, or because of the different scenarios
17:03:15  <Samu> I know :( but then i'd be repeating the same config
17:03:22  <nielsm> yes
17:03:27  <nielsm> why is that bad?
17:03:39  <nielsm> it makes your comparison actually usable
17:03:56  <Samu> there isn't a single config that suits all ais properly
17:04:10  <nielsm> no of course not
17:04:12  <nielsm> that'
17:04:19  <nielsm> and that's something your testing can uncover
17:04:36  <nielsm> what configs and map types are well suited and poorly suited for each type
17:04:55  <Wormnest> Nice to see that NoNoCab did wel Samu :)
17:05:18  <Samu> Wormnest, WormAI on the other hand...
17:05:58  <Samu> 14th place with 1480 points
17:06:38  <Samu> the scoring rules wasn't something I planned ahead of time
17:07:07  <Samu> i had an idea how I would score them before I started, but then I realise my initial ideas wouldn't be too fair
17:07:09  <Wormnest> Oh well, I know it has its weaknesses and it doesn´t do all vehicle types yet
17:07:17  <Samu> that was in the middle of my 10th or so round
17:10:03  <Samu> - final score, i have an excel file of all of this with more details, it's just that it's an online file, dont know if u can open it
17:11:31  <Samu>!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjigjxGip1K_SgIilv
17:13:22  <Samu> my AI finished 3rd place which makes me wonder how biased were my configs...
17:14:31  <Samu> who wants to download 730 MB of savegames?
17:15:45  <Wormnest> Any config will be biased
17:18:17  <Samu> nielsm, I'm quite surprised about EmotionAI and SimpleAI scores
17:18:32  <nielsm> Wormnest yeah, that's why my suggestion is to run every AI pairing on multiple configs and maps
17:18:37  <Samu> regarding the different combinations you mentioned
17:18:51  <Samu> they ended right where they should end
17:18:56  <Samu> next to each other
17:19:01  <Samu> they're basically the same AI
17:19:43  <Samu> I was kind of worried they'd be far apart from each other in the end, turns out they didn't
17:21:58  <Samu> as I was scoring this, the battle for first and 2nd places were always between AIAI and NoNoCAB
17:22:25  <Samu> it would be either of the two who would win
17:22:38  <Wormnest> nielsm Yes, but still there´s so many settings that you can´t test all combinations
17:23:54  <Samu> Terron initially was seen as not a real contender, but it managed to reach 3rd place near the end
17:24:13  <Samu> my AI took that place in the last round, lucky
17:24:30  <Samu> my AI was mostly on 4th and 5th places
17:24:37  <Samu> turns out it ended 3rd
17:24:56  <Wormnest> In most of my tests Terron did fairly well so I´m not surprised
17:25:14  <Samu> it didn't start that well
17:25:29  <Samu> i mean 7th 8th and such, not really that high
17:25:44  <Samu> for me it was the big surprise
17:25:47  <Samu> Terron
17:26:41  <Samu> trAIns surprised me a big negatively
17:26:48  <Samu> I honestly expected more
17:27:28  <Samu> turns out the great times it was pulling out, were after a bankrupt
17:27:39  <Samu> had I not changed the scoring rules
17:27:45  <Samu> it would probably rank higher
17:33:58  <Samu> @calc 70 * 47
17:33:59  <DorpsGek> Samu: 3290
17:34:12  <Samu> @calc 2407/3290
17:34:12  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.731610942249
17:35:57  <Samu> do I post the savegames, I mean is there any interest?
17:36:10  <Samu> 730 MB to the forum seems massive
17:36:26  <peter1138> I don't think anyone cares, no.
17:37:20  <nielsm> you can put them in a google drive or onedrive shared folder and link that
17:38:56  <peter1138> Ever the pragmatist :D
17:44:50  <Samu> synchronizing
17:44:54  <Samu> to onedrive
17:47:01  <Samu> how do i share folders with onedrive
17:48:32  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Ben79487 commented on issue #7655: Cheat window date '<' arrow incremements date
17:48:35  <Samu> nielsm,!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjjCp_bPR1lURTE6dA?e=X7rVOa
17:48:39  <Samu> does this link work?
17:49:02  <nielsm> I can open it and list the files
17:49:17  <nielsm> and download a random file from it too
17:49:25  <Samu> it's still syncing
17:50:40  <nielsm> so yes that works
17:50:49  <Samu> thx
17:51:56  <Samu> i should post the OneNote file too
17:52:04  <Samu> has some additional detains
17:52:06  <Samu> details
17:52:13  <Samu> like who vs who in each round
17:54:18  <Samu> hmm how do i share one note stuff?
17:55:20  <Samu> can only share via email? that sucks
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17:59:33  <Samu> nielsm: can u try this link?!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjhHheJyvAuHltAA-5
17:59:48  <nielsm> error
18:00:05  <Samu> t.t
18:00:28  <Samu>!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjhHheJyvAuHltAA-5
18:00:41  <nielsm> same
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18:01:04  <Samu> okay, must think
18:02:32  <Samu> Edit link:!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjhHgGPNqMh69THrk8 plz dont change anything
18:02:42  <Samu> View link:!Ah9vX-Q9n7IjhHheJyvAuHltAA-5
18:02:53  <Samu> if neither works, i dunno what to do
18:12:39  <Wormnest> All of those OneNote links work for me
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19:05:59  <Samu> topic:
19:06:42  <Samu> one final thing I wanna do, count all victories/losses, regardless of score
19:11:43  <nielsm> look at my beautiful art:
19:11:54  <nielsm> (station window ideas)
19:16:25  <Samu> :)
19:16:35  <Samu> use paint
19:17:19  <nielsm> that only works when I already have a very good idea of what I want, I put too much work into details then
19:17:35  <nielsm> hand drawn lets me focus more on form
19:19:34  <andythenorth> sketch  ftw
19:19:45  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window
19:34:32  <Samu> most first places
19:34:35  <Samu> haha
19:34:37  <Samu> my AI wins
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20:26:11  <Samu> AIAI v97	2407	66	70	68	46	68	66	66	58	42	64	66	56	18	1	66	64	2	15	52	54	70	36	50	66	2	16	46	70	62	15	66	62	58	62	2	64	62	70	12	66	66	68	60	70	48	68	62
20:26:16  <Samu> hmm
20:31:17  <Samu> how do I create cells on the forum?
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20:34:07  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gymnasiast commented on pull request #7540: Change: New layout for the Station view window
20:34:29  <andythenorth> nielsm: picture tells 1000 words? :)
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22:03:25  <Samu> just noticed something
22:03:48  <Samu> @calc 12 + 1*23
22:03:48  <DorpsGek> Samu: 35
22:04:02  <Samu> @calc 70 - 2*23
22:04:02  <DorpsGek> Samu: 24
22:05:09  <Samu> if all games are bankruptless, score goes from 70 to 24
22:05:26  <Samu> if all games are bankrupted, score goes from 35 to 12
22:05:36  <Samu> there's a small overlap there
22:06:47  <Samu> too late to change the scores now, i guess it's fine anyway
22:07:35  <Samu> just found an AI which had 24 points twice, but one was from winning bankruptless, the other was from winning with bankrupt
22:10:01  <Samu> probably there were so many bankrupted victories in that round, 13+
22:10:19  <Samu> 12 + 1*12
22:10:28  <Samu> @calc 12 + 1*12
22:10:28  <DorpsGek> Samu: 24
22:10:42  <Samu> yeah, 13
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23:20:29  <Samu>
23:20:41  <Samu> how do i make the code part show entirely?

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