Log for #openttd on 20th July 2019:
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00:03:40  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting
00:04:39  <Samu> inb4 regression fail
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00:06:52  <Superuser> Hi folks
00:07:52  <Superuser> I was wondering if translators are credited individually at all? I did a lot of l10n work for OTTD about 6 years ago, it seems that a record of that sadly isn't maintained anywhere
00:08:26  <Superuser> it would be frightfully arrogant to ask for just myself, I'm asking about translator credits as a whole
00:08:51  <Superuser> At the very least, I wasn't able to find a list of people who did i18n/l10n for the project in the code
00:13:03  <Samu> i dont know where to get the list of translators
00:17:20  <glx> Superuser: translators names are in the commit messages
00:18:31  <Superuser> hmm, I think the project was still on Mercurial back then, let's see
00:19:33  <Superuser> oh that's cool, all those commits were imported too. Yeah, I can see my username there
00:21:14  <Superuser> seems like the mercurial->git import tool you used even carried over developer profiles, presumably with a combination of keys and email addresses. Really neat. I can see frosch's contributions from all those years ago appear with his github account attached to them
00:21:34  <glx> it was svn->git
00:22:32  <glx> and yes the migration tools is very nice
00:24:22  <Samu> awww... regression passed
00:24:26  <Samu> i'm surprised
00:27:48  <glx> Superuser: we also migrated all bugtracker tickets to github keeping the numbers
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00:32:04  <Samu> im intrigued why regression passed.
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00:44:36  <Samu> ah, its a loaded savegame
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00:45:36  <Samu> so that means _next_competitor_start is the value from the loaded save
00:45:41  <Superuser> glx: lol, highlighting me also disconnected me. Gotta love IRC
00:45:44  <Samu> makes sense
01:06:54  <Samu> about that fire in aljezur, still 180 firefighters in it :o
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02:42:12  <Beerbelott> Is it a bad idea to try to integrate an external lib like ldns (with the nightmare of autoconf)? Or is it better to implement by hand a subset of features?
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07:12:30  <andythenorth> moin
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07:22:14  <Arveen> moin moin
07:42:16  <andythenorth> it's a marginal case
07:42:46  <andythenorth> but sometimes it would be nice if vehicle intro dates could be forced to be the same
07:43:23  <andythenorth> the case I have is engines that have specific wagons
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07:45:09  <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that what we have done?
07:48:13  <andythenorth> I might be doing it wrong
07:48:19  <Eddi|zuHause> most likely
07:48:45  <Eddi|zuHause> all you need to do is put the same intro date
07:48:48  <andythenorth> yes
07:48:55  <andythenorth> and if I don't, it won't work
07:49:10  * andythenorth fixes that
07:49:23  <andythenorth> PEBKAC
08:02:22  <andythenorth> ok, so it's never going to work with exclusive previews :D
08:02:58  <andythenorth> nvm
08:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, yes? the wagons won't have previews, so should become available immediately for everyone
08:05:47  <andythenorth> but the preview is one year before the intro date?
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08:08:09  <andythenorth> also the PEBKAC error is fixed and tested
08:08:20  <andythenorth> I had set the correct property...but on the wrong wagon :P
08:18:29  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #95: Fix typo: relase -> release
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10:21:34  <andythenorth> did I imagine that vehicle list can be sorted by 'breakdowns this year'?
10:22:54  <nielsm> that statistic isn't even recorded
10:23:03  <nielsm> afaik
10:23:34  <andythenorth> yup, I imagined it
10:25:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the breakdown statistic is completely useless
10:29:44  <nielsm> change the current counter to instead mean "this year" and reset it on year change instead of on service?
10:29:55  <nielsm> no savegame upgrade, just pretend it was always like that
10:31:29  <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: also add "last year" like profit
10:34:05  <nielsm> really I think vehicles should record more than just one year history on stats
10:35:51  <andythenorth> I'm 50:50
10:36:04  <andythenorth> it would sometimes be nice to know liifetime profit / ROII
10:36:13  <andythenorth> and sometimes it's nice to just make trains
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10:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause> time for "NoStatistics"?
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10:42:38  <Samu> hi
10:47:10  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause sure, let GS define its own graph windows for anything
10:47:15  <nielsm> also reposting this:
11:00:57  <Eddi|zuHause> why does youtube suddenly decide i should watch lockpicking videos?
11:03:51  <Wolf01> andythenorth: samolot's the martian rover, that's epic
11:04:11  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Everyone should watch lockpicking videos
11:04:29  <Wolf01> :D
11:05:11  <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Anyway, you're on IRC, so there's a 100% chance that you want to watch lockpicking videos even if you don't know it yet
11:09:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
11:21:46  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0
11:49:01  <Samu> you're using wiki for ideas?
11:49:22  <nielsm> that's not a new thing
11:49:48  <nielsm> in fact it looks like historically it has been modus operandi
11:50:08  <nielsm> to make a subpage of your userpage on the wiki to present ideas
11:53:13  <Samu> seems better than that gist thing
11:56:05  * andythenorth wonders
11:56:24  <andythenorth> could we make cities more fun to build routes in?
11:56:38  <andythenorth> maybe a new town road layout, forced to be spatious?
11:57:12  <andythenorth> and maybe an option to demolish town roads more easily? (or is it better to just use magic bulldozer?)
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12:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> how do you have trouble removing town roads?
12:13:02  <Eddi|zuHause> run a few busses, and even if you run into the limit, it recovers in no time
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13:04:32  <Samu> The original ratings are recalculated monthly in the game loop - oh noes
13:05:06  <Samu> you have not seen my script :(
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13:06:56  <Samu>  it's likely safer to have the GS update the company ratings on its own time.
13:07:13  <Samu> well, every gameloop in my case
13:13:50  <Samu> 16 17 18 19 20 21 22
13:14:24  <Samu> if rating id 0 is invalid then it's 126
13:15:54  <Samu> nevermind
13:16:05  <Samu> 0 to 127, counts 128
13:16:12  <Samu> 0 is invalid, 127 is correct
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14:35:42  <Samu> i forgot how to use SetDParam strings... any help
14:36:03  <Samu> ah
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15:37:37  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Shindurion commented on issue #7659: Railway construction menu disappears
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16:18:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably safe to close that as invalid
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16:23:32  <peter1138> Close everything as invalid.
16:24:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not andy :)
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16:44:21  <Samu>
16:45:16  <Samu> i've been thinking
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16:45:20  <Samu> putting it there
16:45:35  <Samu> instead of in an obscure place such as the game settings
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16:51:47  <Samu> but it can be there as well
16:52:24  <Samu> it's still 1 setting, in 2 places
16:53:24  <Samu> 1 setting, in 2 places, for all AIs
16:53:55  <Samu> affecting all AIs equally? my english
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17:08:31  <peter1138> Bloody Andy...
17:08:40  * peter1138 is now seasoning his new cast iron pan ...
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17:23:37  <Eddi|zuHause> which salad requires a cast iron pan?
17:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no, youtube, i don't want to watch a top gun trailer
17:26:00  <peter1138> :D
17:26:20  <peter1138> So I have salad for lunch at work, and usually lunch at the weekend.
17:26:30  <peter1138> But my evening meals... they are not normally salad.
17:27:22  <peter1138> Especially at the weekend after a morning club ride, I have loads of wiggle room for a big fat meal.
17:34:03  <nielsm> what are the formal requirements for a dish to not be a salad?
17:36:42  <peter1138> Hmm!
17:37:02  <peter1138> I my case the primary constituent of a salad is lettuce of some sort.
17:37:54  <Eddi|zuHause> we have things called "flesh salad" and "fish salad" which definitely don't contain any lettuce
17:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause> also, "fruit salad"
17:38:05  <Samu> how do I make a default be based on another setting?
17:38:14  <peter1138> "potato salad" is also not really a salad, indeed.
17:38:30  <Samu> easy, medium and hard profiles each have their start_date defaults
17:38:35  <peter1138> But then you don't really refer to any of them as just "salad"
17:39:03  <Samu> how do I put that to work properly in game settings and the openttd config file?
17:40:49  <Samu> i can make a workaround that works in ai_gui.cpp, but i'm not sure where to touch in settings_gui.cpp
17:40:50  <andythenorth> salad = lettuce
17:41:58  <Samu> value = (int32)(size_t)sd->desc.def;
17:42:33  <Samu> SettingDesc desc.def is just too strick
17:42:44  <nielsm> Samu: a default can't be dynamic
17:42:47  <Samu> the default is only 1 value
17:42:50  <Samu> oh :(
17:43:15  <Samu> strict*
17:43:16  <nielsm> easy/medium/hard would have to be "actions" and not a setting
17:44:31  <Samu> by "actions", could it be a function that works out the default value?
17:45:20  <Samu> def      = AI::START_DELAY
17:45:35  <Samu> could I instead place a function in that place?
17:45:47  <nielsm> don't count on it
17:46:27  <Samu> gonna experiment...
17:46:33  <nielsm> what I mean is that selecting easy/medium/hard does _not_ affect the default, it just changes the current value
17:46:45  <nielsm> the default might be the "normal" value
17:46:53  <nielsm> but easy and hard would not be defaults in any way
17:47:09  <Samu> current default profile is easy
17:47:14  <Samu> so i went with 730 days
17:47:42  <Samu> but was really attempting to make it dynamic, based on profile
17:55:47  <Samu> can't do it t.t
17:57:17  <Samu> it's saying identifiers not found
17:59:51  <Samu> I got this on ai_gui.cpp
18:00:01  <Samu> i guess it's fine enough
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18:21:29  <Samu> should I remove start_date from game settings gui window?
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18:21:44  <Samu> ai_start_delay, I mean
18:21:59  <Samu> due to the default not being dynamic there?
18:23:19  <peter1138> Yeah but more importantly I've stuffed the peppers, put them in the oven, and started off the risotto rice.
18:25:49  <Samu> :)
18:33:05  <Samu>
18:33:09  <Samu> big tooltip
18:33:28  <Samu> who wants to help me with the english part?
18:33:31  <Samu> tooltip
18:34:40  <Wolf01> This evening: fried fish sticks and octopus salad :P
18:38:29  <Samu> sometimes I wonder, do ppl really like random deviation for start date?
18:47:28  <Samu> is this good english description:
18:47:29  <Samu> AIConfigWidgets widget;  ///< corresponding widget to setting for which a value-entering window has been opened.
18:49:59  <peter1138> fish sticks?
18:50:02  <peter1138> What's a fish stick?
18:50:44  <peter1138>
18:50:48  <peter1138> Doesn't look very appetising :p
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18:57:27  <Eddi|zuHause> ... not what i expected :p
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18:58:49  <Wolf01>
18:59:09  <peter1138> They're fish fingers.
18:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause> idiot, fish don't have fingers.
19:00:45  <Eddi|zuHause>
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19:12:40  <peter1138> Oh god this is delicious.
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19:30:09  <andythenorth> looks like I tried a few options here :P
19:37:02  <peter1138> Yeah but...
19:37:20  <andythenorth> winning instagram
19:37:40  <peter1138> Presentation not perfect... that happens when trying to share out 3 stuffed peppers to 2 people.
19:41:59  <peter1138> It was pretty nice though.
19:42:34  <andythenorth> it's all about the square plate too
19:42:46  <peter1138> Haha
19:43:06  <peter1138> At least it's porcelain. Not a lump of timber or something.
19:43:40  <peter1138> It's actually a bowl. I always use those as it's good for portion control.
19:43:53  <Samu> (int32)(size_t)sd->desc.def
19:44:01  <Samu> why so many conversions here?
19:44:22  <Samu> value = (int32)(size_t)sd->desc.def;
19:44:50  <peter1138> Aliasing.
19:45:04  <peter1138> (I made that up but it sounds good)
19:45:22  <Samu> value = ReadValue(&sd->desc.def, sd->save.conv);
19:45:31  <Samu> what's the difference between this and the other one
19:45:57  <Eddi|zuHause> might be a result of a regex
19:47:28  <peter1138> One is direct, one is... indirect.
19:48:20  <Samu> ah. the ReadValue "value" is a int64
19:48:29  <Samu> the other "value" is int32
19:48:57  <Samu> i wonder what sd->desc.def is
19:48:57  <peter1138> "Problem" with using 150ml of wine to cook risotto rice is you have 600ml of wine left over.
19:49:21  <Samu> looks like it can be several things
19:49:45  <peter1138> There's probably some better C++ way of doing all that stuff.
19:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause> if only there was a thing that two people who sit a home on a saturday evening could do with 600ml of wine...
19:50:03  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, one of whom does not drink wine (but apparently doesn't mind it in risotto rice)
19:50:32  <peter1138> So... if only there was a thing that one person who sits at home, on a Saturday evening could do with 600ml of wine...
19:50:41  <Samu> const void *def;        ///< default value given when none is present
19:50:44  <Samu> is a void?
19:50:47  <Eddi|zuHause> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
19:50:48  <Samu> im confused
19:50:50  <peter1138> I already two 330ml cans of beer :D
19:50:58  <peter1138> I may not be getting up tomorrow morning :p
19:51:19  <peter1138> Samu, void because there is no specific type.
19:51:31  <glx> it's a pointer without "type"
19:51:49  <peter1138> Who the heck talks about code on a Saturday evening when we have food and wine and 'fine' dining to discuss?
19:52:39  <Eddi|zuHause> "void *" is "i need a pointer to something, but i don't care what that something actually is"
19:56:51  <Samu> I see
20:08:56  <nielsm> the double cast likely has to do with storage width and having to do a narrowing conversion, which can require some extra care on big endian systems
20:08:57  <nielsm> maybe
20:10:51  <glx> probably to prevent a warning
20:11:36  <nielsm> yes the explicit narrowing cast is probably just to silence a warning
20:34:51  <andythenorth> 7631 is making more friends
20:37:19  <Eddi|zuHause> it would probably be a bit involved to turn the text stack into an actual stack...
20:44:52  <peter1138> When a portion of nuts is... 4 nuts... do you bother...
20:46:01  <peter1138> (Obviously a portion is larger, but that's the given weight to make it look 'healthy')
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20:50:27  <peter1138> He's quit in disgust.
20:54:12  <andythenorth> sometimes there is Eddi2
20:54:15  <andythenorth> not today
20:54:31  <andythenorth> also how big are the nuts?
20:54:38  * andythenorth is hungry
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20:58:01  <peter1138> Well, they're chocolate coated almonds. "Tiramisu"
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20:59:02  <peter1138> So not huge at all.
21:13:20  <Samu> STR_AI_CONFIG_START_DELAY_TOOLTIP                               :{BLACK}Number of days to wait before starting an AI, or subsequent AI(s) after the previous one.{}If the number of days is different than zero, a random deviation of 60 days is added, and the actual value in-game will be 'number_of_days + random(-60 days, 60 days)', with a minimum of 1 day and a maximum of 3600 days.{}If the number of days is zero, the AI(s) will start
21:13:20  <Samu> immediately.{}Default values for this setting are based on the default settings profile selected.
21:13:50  <Eddi|zuHause> ... there was a loss of power, because wetness outside triggered the FI circuit breaker
21:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> ... and my graphics card is on the brink of collapse, which makes booting a problem
21:14:22  <Eddi|zuHause> ... i need this new computer asap
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21:15:21  <Samu> The default value for this setting is based on 'default settings profile' selected.
21:16:29  <Samu> The default value for this setting is based on the value selected for 'Default settings profile'.
21:16:35  <Samu> muh english
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21:19:18  <Samu> i'm 'hacking' settings.cpp and settings_gui.cpp to have special treatment for 'ai.ai_start_delay' defaults
21:19:40  <Samu> and ai_gui.cpp, of course
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21:39:18  <Samu> value = (int32)(size_t)ReadDefaultValue(GetSettingFromName("ai.ai_start_delay", &dummy));
21:39:21  <Samu> magic
21:39:28  <Samu> let's see if it works
21:45:49  <andythenorth> bye
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22:17:03  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7661: Codechange: Rework 'start_date' parameter for AIs as a game setting
22:17:31  <Samu> plz look at my PR, someone
22:19:37  <Samu> specifically the int64 ReadDefaultValue(const SettingDesc *sd)
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22:42:50  <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eriphia opened issue #7662: Station sets using ground tile numbers using incorrect tiles for maglev and monorail
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22:50:44  <Beerbelott> Does autorenew have higher precedence than vehicle replace?
22:51:30  <FLHerne> Shouldn't
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22:52:24  <Beerbelott> I got a company in which I set orders to replace vehicles by a newer generation version. That doesn't seem to have an effect (I set them to replace immediately, not when getting old). The company also happens to have autorenew on with a money limit which is not met.
22:52:36  <FLHerne> I'm fairly sure it doesn't, unless something changed recently
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22:52:58  <Beerbelott> When vehicles get to a depot, a message tells me the vehicle couldn't be autorenewed, but the replacement didn't occur either
22:53:13  <Beerbelott> What could I have been missing, then?
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22:53:43  <FLHerne> Railtype incompatibility?
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22:53:43  <Beerbelott> If you want to see that my yourself, yo ucan join me on a public server right now
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22:53:48  <Beerbelott> It's for trucks
22:53:54  <FLHerne> Ok, so not that :P
22:53:58  <Beerbelott> ^^
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22:54:10  <FLHerne> Well, I guess now that NRT is a thing...
22:54:36  <Beerbelott> NRT?
22:55:07  <FLHerne> Partly-overlapping sets of refittable cargos can be a problem too
22:55:30  <FLHerne> NewRoadTypes
22:55:38  <FLHerne> (newgrf?)
22:55:45  <Beerbelott> Trucks got a single type of cargo, haven't they?
22:55:57  <FLHerne> Oh, NotRoadTypes
22:56:17  <FLHerne> (because naming things in weird ways is an OTTD tradition) :P
22:56:26  <FLHerne> But, anyway, like railtypes for roads
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22:56:47  <FLHerne> Are you using the baseset ones?
22:57:01  <FLHerne> Newgrf trucks are usually refittable between more than one cargo
22:57:07  <FLHerne> [they can only carry one at once]
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23:13:11  <Beerbelott> It's a "vanilla" server
23:13:15  <Beerbelott> hence no NewGRF loaded
23:13:32  <Beerbelott> You can join if you wanna (help me) understand what's wrong
23:15:28  <FLHerne> Where?
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23:22:17  <Beerbelott> Report: Problem seemed to have been cash at hand ;)
23:22:20  <Beerbelott> Thx FLHerne
23:22:30  <FLHerne> np
23:30:13  <Beerbelott> Mmmmh... Sth else is interesting
23:30:24  <Beerbelott> All trucks new-enough got replaced by new version
23:30:32  <Beerbelott> All the "red" ones (too old) haven't
23:30:48  <Beerbelott> ... mb that's the sign autorenew has higher precedence than replacement for those?
23:31:12  <Beerbelott> This time I got more than the money limit (250k cash in hand for 200k money limit for autorenew)
23:31:43  <Beerbelott> Still dunno if the autorenew money limit applies to cash balance with or without loans deducted
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23:34:14  <Beerbelott> Autorenew disabled -> replacement for new version has now happened
23:34:27  <Beerbelott> thus there seem to be autorenew precedences :)
23:34:40  <Beerbelott> Which can prevent vehicle upgrade in case the money limit isn't reached
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23:49:16  <FLHerne> Hm, if that's really true it's certainly broken
23:49:34  <FLHerne> I'm sure I remember it not behaving like that for me :P
23:50:21  <glx> it's without loan IIRC
23:52:59  <glx> hmm or maybe not, but wiki says "If the value is, for example, £200,000, a new vehicle costs £10,000 and you have £205,000, the vehicle will not be replaced. Instead, you will get a warning that autorenew has failed on that vehicle."
23:53:23  <glx> so if vehicle cost is more than 50k it will fail
23:55:23  <Samu> requires double the cost of vehicle, i think
23:55:53  <Samu> let me find
23:56:09  <glx> seems money limit is the minimum money that should be available after the renew
23:56:38  <glx> but I didn't check the code
23:57:35  <Samu> 		needed_money += 2 * Engine::Get(new_engine)->GetCost();

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