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Log for #openttd on 15th September 2019:
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00:34:41  <nnyby> i rebased this to master andythenorth
01:05:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think he's around at this time...
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06:10:38  <Pikka> zounds
06:15:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7741: Fix #7644: [OSX] Try to use system colour space to avoid video output… https://git.io/JeY9y
06:15:57  <andythenorth> :o
06:15:59  <andythenorth> a pikka
06:16:21  <Pikka> tis
06:16:33  <andythenorth> Twitter told me you're still alive and haven't fallen in the Brisbane river :)
06:16:42  <andythenorth> but here, now, you are
06:16:57  <Pikka> not permanently fallen in the river, anyway
06:17:23  <Pikka> trying to remember how this train drawing thing works :)
06:17:51  <andythenorth> use pixels
06:18:12  <andythenorth> advanced level: use code to make pixels
06:18:59  <Pikka> hmmm
06:19:17  <andythenorth> but what are you drawing? :)
06:20:47  <Pikka> 321ing at the moment... also thinking about houses (and whether I should use code to draw houses or if that's tmw)
06:24:22  <andythenorth> hmm
06:24:30  <andythenorth> I never bothered with code for industries
06:24:50  <andythenorth> just drawing
06:27:12  <Pikka> code is nice for lots of variation on a theme, though. I was thinking of drawing elements (or elephants) and then getting the code to put them together
06:27:51  <andythenorth> zeph did that somewhere
06:28:32  <andythenorth> if I did a town set
06:29:05  <andythenorth> I might do this:
06:29:19  <andythenorth> - draw some ground floors (door on left, door on right etc)
06:29:30  <andythenorth> - draw some upper floors (windows, balconies etc)
06:29:38  <andythenorth> - draw different roof styles
06:29:48  <andythenorth> all on same floorplan size
06:30:02  <andythenorth> then composite them, to give 1, 2 or 3 storey houses
06:30:15  <andythenorth> same for tower blocks
06:30:35  <andythenorth> also recolouring
06:30:50  <andythenorth> and I'd automate the boring crap like snow
06:31:11  <Pikka> oh yeah, snow...
06:32:20  <andythenorth> intermodal snow
06:33:48  <Pikka> versatile!
06:34:15  * andythenorth container wagons
06:56:40  <andythenorth> Express Container Wagons!
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07:25:45  <Pikka> implied container wagons?
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07:33:05  * andythenorth now lost in google
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08:11:36  <andythenorth> pikka hi
08:21:24  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9490/gronk!.png
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08:40:11  <Samu> hi
08:44:21  <Samu> Pikka, how do I make your AI "beat everyone else" in profits/company value, or something
08:44:42  <Samu> which settings
08:45:48  <Samu> I've seen it competing fiercely, once, but forgot to see which settings
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10:02:21  <Pikka> Samu, dumb luck probably
10:02:57  <Pikka> disabling the road network building might be it... it just builds randomly then, doesn't spend so much time pathfinding
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10:06:50  <Samu> ok, will try
10:07:26  <Pikka> I'm just trying to remember how it works myself, hadn't touched it for a couple of months before today :)
10:29:25  <Samu> so i just discovered a new music group
10:29:53  <Samu> :o
10:30:12  <Samu> from SWE
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10:32:13  <andythenorth_> so
10:32:24  <andythenorth_> will it snowploughs?
10:33:16  <Samu> weird videos
10:33:41  <Samu> melodic songs with weird lyrics
10:35:37  <Samu> videos seem to kind of express violent thoughts
10:36:10  <Samu> melancolic
10:36:46  <andythenorth_> snowplough zellepins?
10:39:02  <Samu> nop
10:39:13  <Samu> RABBII
10:39:40  <Samu> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2ykjUUXvpilh5ipV25w_nQ
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10:46:37  <Samu> the first song I listened by them was on a mix compilation, this: https://youtu.be/IDOYwuwAJPE
10:47:15  <Samu> the voice intrigued me, lyrics as well, investigated and got tat
10:47:23  <Samu> that group
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11:32:20  <Pikka> snowploughs are better than noploughs
11:32:41  <peter1139> O
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11:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause> P
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12:07:22  <Pikka> E?
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12:30:43  <peter1139> Well, it's my lunch time.
12:31:03  <peter1139> Post-cycle salad.
12:35:12  <andythenorth> mmm lunch
12:35:19  <andythenorth> I had two pork pies
12:35:23  <andythenorth> probably ginsters
12:35:29  <andythenorth> not valid
12:43:37  <peter1139> o_O
12:43:49  <peter1139> Got some sourdough bread as well. Mmm
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13:34:40  <peter1139> Damn, my villagers died :(
13:35:38  <andythenorth> should I Warcraft 1?
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14:38:10  <andythenorth> did someone have a patch for newgrf docks?
14:39:09  <nielsm> I don't think so
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14:53:43  <Samu> i have a suggestion
14:54:10  <Samu> I want a remove all signs
14:54:29  <Samu> or I wish
14:54:54  <Samu> I plant my debug pathfinding signs, then i want to remove them
14:55:09  <Samu> can only remove 1 by 1, it's slow
14:55:18  <Samu> this step could be done in a single step
15:08:37  <glx> if human player can't do it, AI can't
15:10:50  <Samu> ok :(
15:17:10  <supermop_Home_> tbh i always feel like just building coke ovens right next to mines
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15:49:16  <andythenorth> supermop_Home_: and that's wrong how? :)
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16:13:56  <peter1139> nielsm, why do you think that?
16:14:07  <peter1139> I mean... I did.
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18:08:43  <andythenorth> hmm
18:08:49  <andythenorth> so HEQS in Road Hog?
18:08:52  <andythenorth> or do HEQS 2?
18:09:04  <andythenorth> I've been adding HEQS-type things to Road Hog so far
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18:57:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4
19:07:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4
19:10:17  <nielsm> anyone want to review that? :)
19:13:29  <Samu> @calc (150* 2 * 3 * 74 * 127 / 4) / (192 * 16) * 2)
19:13:29  <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
19:13:44  <Samu> @calc (150 * 2 * 3 * 74 * 127 / 4) / (192 * 16)
19:13:45  <DorpsGek> Samu: 688.330078125
19:56:48  <andythenorth> nielsm: looks interesting :)
19:56:53  <andythenorth> can't comment on code :)
20:06:01  <_dp_> nielsm, it's probably possible to overflow 32bit on yearly cargotiles
20:06:16  <_dp_> nielsm, will need special newgrf for that though so probably ok
20:06:33  <nielsm> I thought I had made that 64 bit actually, guess not
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20:09:31  <_dp_> also not sure if that feature is useful at all
20:10:36  <_dp_> you can kinda guess that effeciency just by looking at the track
20:11:12  <nielsm> the long-term goal is to add a way for GS to change the company score calculation
20:11:30  <_dp_> would be more interesting if speed was also a factor imo
20:12:10  <nielsm> the thing that isn't obvious just from looking at the track is idle time
20:12:32  <nielsm> this rating will drop if vehicles are waiting long for their turn to load, or sitting at signals
20:13:20  <nielsm> you'll get a worse efficiency rating for having too many vehicles for a route
20:15:35  <_dp_> nielsm, ah, missed that actually
20:16:28  <Samu> https://imgur.com/g7c4l9M pathfinding over 678 tiles
20:17:12  <Samu> top left corner to bottom right corner of minimap
20:17:32  <nielsm> actually, it doesn't handle road vehicles queuing, maybe it should
20:17:45  <nielsm> nor aircraft blocked from movement on airport
20:18:09  <_dp_> nielsm, am I reading it correct that only idling is penalized but going slow isn't?
20:18:30  <nielsm> yes
20:19:07  <nielsm> maybe it should, now you mention it
20:19:33  <nielsm> if a fast vehicle is spending too much time going much slower than its theoretical top speed that's also waste of potential
20:19:51  <Samu> nerf trains, good idea
20:20:18  <_dp_> nielsm, well, at least for profit calculations acceleration plays a huge role
20:21:10  <_dp_> nielsm, bit this thing is kinda arbitrary so hard to tell what should it count :p
20:23:22  <andythenorth> in en-gb, 'intermodal wagon' or 'container wagon'?
20:23:25  <andythenorth> it carries containers
20:23:45  <LordAro> container container wagon
20:24:11  <andythenorth> container wagon container
20:24:19  <nielsm> aren't intermodal wagons the type that carry road trailers?
20:24:23  <LordAro> flatbed wagon?
20:24:33  <andythenorth> the terms are used interchangeably it seems https://www.ltsv.com/w_profiles_intermodal.php
20:24:56  <Samu> interwagontainer
20:25:14  <andythenorth> lol :)
20:27:17  <_dp_> nielsm, what's the point of GS score calculation btw?
20:27:38  <andythenorth> delete current high score mechanic?
20:27:40  * andythenorth guessing
20:27:53  <nielsm> giving the company score more meaning :)
20:28:00  <nielsm> letting GS customise the game rules more
20:28:07  <_dp_> andythenorth, yeah, like, I don't see any point in having a score in a first place
20:28:20  <_dp_> goal servers have scores that matter but that's whole different story
20:28:33  <nielsm> like, in a city builder you could have the company score actually reflect the GS rules
20:30:32  <_dp_> nielsm, erm, you mean let GS show a scoreboard at the end of the game with whatever score it wants?
20:30:41  <nielsm> yes
20:30:50  <nielsm> (still under the 0 to 1000 restriction)
20:31:39  <nielsm> and the performance rating graph reflects it as well
20:31:58  <_dp_> mb somewhat useful but not with 1000 restriction
20:32:47  <_dp_> like, for cb score is population, wtf is population in 0...1000 range supposed to mean?
20:33:26  <Samu> there's 3 screenshot options
20:33:42  <Samu> but... why
20:33:48  <_dp_> also scoreboard is quite useful to have in game at all times not just at the end
20:33:59  <_dp_> right now global goals are used for that
20:34:07  <_dp_> probably the only use of global goals :p
20:34:59  <milek7> 'Company league table'
20:35:03  <Samu> make a gif video creator instead of more screenshot options
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20:36:37  <_dp_> milek7, oh, yeah, we have that thing as well
20:37:33  <_dp_> idk, unless GS is allowed to write arbitrary info there it doesn't seem all that useful
20:39:01  <_dp_> btw, score also comes with unit of measure. e.g. money, cargo units, etc.
20:39:41  <nielsm> yes
20:39:57  <nielsm> https://wiki.openttd.org/User:Nielsmh/GS_performance_rating
20:40:02  <nielsm> some ideas I wrote
20:40:55  <Samu> there can be only one GS :(
20:42:31  <_dp_> nielsm, omg, components...
20:43:15  <nielsm> yes that's how the scoring works originally and I want to allow only partially replacing the original scoring
20:43:22  <nielsm> but you could also just make a single component score
20:45:36  <_dp_> nielsm, yeah, I get it that you're trying to make original rating customizable
20:45:55  <_dp_> it's just that goal servers work on a whole different premise
20:46:17  <_dp_> I would be more than happy if I could just have some window where I could put whatever I want
20:46:32  <_dp_> not having to deal with arbitrary components limitations etc
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20:48:21  <_dp_> currently it's exactly this way with global goals that are designed to work as goals but never used like that
20:48:38  <_dp_> and using them just to write a text is a huge pita
20:49:11  <_dp_> coz they're unordered
20:50:57  <nielsm> I suppose it could be possible to add a global switch for scoring mode, "fixed maximum" or "no maximum"
20:51:27  <nielsm> with no fixed maximum the company league window would lose the "titles" for score ranges
20:52:22  <_dp_> nielsm, one tricky part is that hq graphics also depend on titles
20:52:34  <nielsm> yeah...
20:52:58  <nielsm> and the HQ actually changes acceptance
20:53:04  <_dp_> actually.. title can also be assignable by GS
20:54:01  <_dp_> though it's kinda weird to have it all tied together
20:54:12  <nielsm> or a hybrid of kind? there's still scoring components used to calculate the rating, but the score is separate
20:56:51  <_dp_> nielsm, you mean have separate rating and scoring?
20:56:58  <nielsm> yea
20:57:32  <nielsm> the company league table reflects rating while the graph reflects score
20:58:52  <_dp_> nielsm, idk, rating just feels completely unnecessary to me in that case
20:59:07  <_dp_> I'd rather just have a command to set HQ style
21:03:25  <_dp_> oh, btw, scoreboard on our multigoal servers includes companies that were closed
21:03:31  <_dp_> so there is that usecase as well
21:03:46  <_dp_> was quite a pain to implement also
21:04:00  <_dp_> had to abuse some other feature
21:05:16  <_dp_> namely vehicle groups as adding a group on server company is the only way I know to show arbitrary strings in GS
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21:13:20  <nielsm> so you'd like a way for dead companies to be "memorialised" so their data is recorded even though they have no presence on the map
21:13:37  <nielsm> and allow some large history of these ghosts
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21:15:09  <_dp_> nielsm, well, I just wanted a company name but I guess more history can be of some use as well
21:17:06  <_dp_> nielsm, like, if charts could show more than just 3 years it would make a lot of sense including dead companies
21:17:57  <nielsm> the graph UI is pretty bad as it is :)
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21:19:00  <_dp_> nielsm, yeah, I completely gave up on doing anything with those graphs even in a patched client xD
21:19:15  <_dp_> much easier to do everything on a website
21:31:58  <_dp_> to sum it up, what GS lacks the most imo is ability to do UI
21:32:26  <_dp_> even in a simlest forms like showing error popups that have red window like real errors
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23:30:33  <drac_boy> thought I saw it mentioned somewhere but with everything going on I forgot about it and now can't seem to find it again .. any of you know if its true that openttd may eventually have 4+ cargos per industry etc?
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