Log for #openttd on 16th September 2019:
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00:35:37  <glx> drac_boy: yes and same for houses
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00:40:50  <drac_boy> hmm thanks glx .. bookmarked that discussion thread for now probably will wait for it to be in beta or final release before I try figure how to use action7 myself :)
00:41:13  <glx> it's already in nightlies
00:41:28  <glx> if you want to test
00:45:25  <drac_boy> I'll prefer to wait for the post-test phase you know? ty still :)
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03:42:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor opened issue #7742: Cannot select partially visible station items
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08:05:18  <andythenorth> o/
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11:27:45  <peter1139> Is it lunch yet?
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11:38:50  <andythenorth> I had a pre-lunch snack
11:38:51  <andythenorth> toast
11:39:05  <andythenorth> later I will have lunch
11:39:06  <andythenorth> toast
11:41:18  * andythenorth wonders about a new town grid
11:41:34  <andythenorth> which makes building in towns easier
12:27:52  <andythenorth> something like 3x3 protected areas, to enforce gaps
12:28:31  <andythenorth> and maybe a more lax attitude to road modification :P
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14:45:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #7510: Emscripten support
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16:35:21  <andythenorth> yo
16:35:47  <nielsm> hi
16:38:49  <andythenorth> new town grid then? :D
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16:43:11  <milek7>
16:43:16  <milek7> updated
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17:15:38  * andythenorth had an idea for towns
17:15:48  <andythenorth> instead of trying to force a specific street layout
17:16:05  <andythenorth> to create gaps etc
17:16:18  <andythenorth> rather designate clusters of tiles in the town zone as 'cannot build here'
17:21:18  <nielsm> as in, the town reserves a bunch of tiles for itself ahead of time?
17:21:26  <nielsm> and then slowly expands into that?
17:24:57  <andythenorth> I find later-stage OpenTTD cities very pointless
17:25:04  <andythenorth> in fact, I now discourage them growing where I can
17:25:34  <andythenorth> it is interesting to play one or two games trying to service a 10k city with buses
17:25:41  <andythenorth> but it's not sustainable fun :D
17:25:54  <andythenorth> mostly cities just get in the way of building routes
17:26:32  <andythenorth> my hope is that we can provide an option where cities leave large blocks of connected tiles open
17:33:17  <andythenorth> picture > words
17:37:23  <nnyby> yeah, that city needs something like central park
17:38:08  <nnyby> and a highway system
17:39:33  <andythenorth> there are 7 cities like that on that map
17:39:47  <andythenorth> 512x256
17:39:58  <andythenorth> and about 40% sea
17:40:13  <andythenorth> so actually, the game is kind of over as far as train routes go
17:40:29  <andythenorth> unless I use magic bulldozer, maximum sandbox mode
17:41:11  <nnyby> magic bulldozer? there's always room for more stations if you make space, isn't there?
17:41:22  <nnyby> but i agree that large cities get boring
17:41:28  <andythenorth> magic bulldozer solves all problems
17:41:49  <glx> large cities and passengers
17:41:58  <andythenorth> there is a GS, Villages is Villages which solves this somewhat
17:42:05  <andythenorth> but then I can't use other GS
17:42:20  <nnyby> seems difficult to tackle in openttd though. what would make large cities more interesting? possibilities of a subway system? highways? cultural exports? not sure how that would fit together, but sounds cool.
17:42:23  <andythenorth> ha, maybe I should just set towns to none?
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17:52:10  <nielsm> allow town buildings further away from roads, increase grid spacing, add some kind of preference to building types and generate districts
17:52:19  <nielsm> so roads waste fewer tiles
17:52:39  <nielsm> and ideally add support for larger buildings, like 3x3 or 2x4 or such
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17:55:37  <LordAro> so 1.9.3 ?
17:56:05  <andythenorth> hurrah
17:56:11  <andythenorth> nielsm: all sounds plausible
17:56:25  <nielsm> LordAro not sure, there's that alt solution to the colorspace thing
17:56:28  <andythenorth> and maybe try to prevent nonsense bits of road that prevent crossings, or maybe that's fixed already
17:56:34  <nielsm> and I'm not sure which is more good
17:56:53  <milek7> colorspace driver param?
17:57:31  <LordAro> nielsm: i certainly have no way to tell one way or the other
17:58:07  <andythenorth> the michi patch is better for me
17:58:17  <LordAro> how much better?
17:58:32  <nielsm> performance or rendition?
18:03:09  <andythenorth> performance about same, in limited tests
18:03:25  <andythenorth> colour rendition is unchanged from 1.8
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18:04:10  <andythenorth> I would be very very sceptical about any mac performance reports currently
18:04:49  <andythenorth> I have a fair-sized save, 400 vehicles, running at 33fps
18:05:01  <andythenorth> I have another game, just testing ~10 trains, running at 22fps
18:05:08  <andythenorth> something is wrong in gotham
18:06:11  <andythenorth> the slow games are not trivially reproducible, I just reloaded it and it's now 33fps
18:08:26  <andythenorth> anyway LordAro the colour space patch does solve full animation FPS for me
18:08:28  <nielsm> that sounds like the kind of slowness that goes away if you try to add instrumentation
18:08:44  <andythenorth> and the michi patch is the preferred version
18:08:55  <andythenorth> there is no reason to substantially change the colours of the game
18:09:00  <nielsm> let's merge michi's patch then, also to 1.9, and release
18:09:15  <andythenorth> +1
18:10:20  <LordAro> (y)
18:10:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7741: Fix #7644: [OSX] Try to use system colour space to avoid video output…
18:11:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7741: Fix #7644: [OSX] Try to use system colour space to avoid video output…
18:11:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS
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18:17:36  <andythenorth> thx
18:21:11  <andythenorth> nielsm: is everything 'regions'? :P
18:21:38  <nielsm> what?
18:24:02  <nielsm> backport?
18:24:10  <nielsm> backport?
18:24:46  <nielsm> backport?
18:24:56  * andythenorth wondering if regions concept can control town growth
18:25:07  <andythenorth> probably not, wrong level of intervention
18:25:21  <LordAro> nielsm: might as well (for all 3)
18:26:04  <LordAro> #7740 doesn't really need to bother with a changelog entry
18:26:09  <LordAro> imo
18:26:29  <nielsm> 7727 doesn't apply cleanly and will be annoying to fix :P
18:26:47  <LordAro> really? but it's such a simple change
18:26:48  <nielsm> actually no
18:26:59  <nielsm> I'll just redo it :P
18:27:21  <LordAro> what's changed in that area?
18:27:57  <nielsm> the surrounding function signature
18:28:35  <nielsm> so the items to sort have a different level of indirection
18:29:03  <nielsm> but yeah it was still a simple fix after actually looking at the conflict :P
18:29:27  <nielsm> this just makes it look worse than it is:
18:29:52  <LordAro> ha, yes
18:33:01  <nielsm>
18:33:11  <nielsm> new RC or just fast-track release?
18:33:32  <LordAro> release
18:39:23  <nielsm> hmm I just noticed, in the debian package changelog, _every_ version is unstable
18:39:33  <LordAro> yep
18:39:40  <LordAro> i don't understand why either
18:40:10  <LordAro> possibly because it's not the actual version that's packaged by blathjis?
18:41:22  <LordAro> ijs*
18:45:42  <LordAro> nielsm: #7699 as well?
18:45:42  <andythenorth> oh, I don't understand newgrf random triggers :)
18:45:45  <andythenorth> hmm
18:46:10  <andythenorth> how do I only reset some of the random bits?  I want container to change colour, but not wagon
18:48:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7743: Prepare for 1.9.3 release
18:49:22  <nielsm> andythenorth: use an AND operation to mask out the bits you don't want?
18:52:14  <andythenorth> not sure random bits work that way?
18:56:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7743: Prepare for 1.9.3 release
18:57:13  <nielsm> better restart the CI build, forgot a blank line in changelog.txt
18:57:49  <LordAro> high importance
19:05:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh pushed 1 commits to release-1.9.3
19:05:32  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update release date (by nielsmh)
19:05:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] nielsmh updated pull request #100: Add: Release 1.9.3 newspost
19:08:01  <nielsm> ship it?
19:08:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7743: Prepare for 1.9.3 release
19:09:22  <andythenorth> ship it
19:09:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7743: Prepare for 1.9.3 release
19:09:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh pushed 7 commits to release/1.9
19:09:34  <DorpsGek_III>   - Fix #7479: Don't close construction windows when changing client name (by nielsmh)
19:09:36  <DorpsGek_III>   - Fix #7644: [OSX] Try to use system colour space to avoid video output performance degradation. (by michicc)
19:09:36  <DorpsGek_III>   - Change: [OSX] Recreate backing store if the colour profile of the screen (or the screen) the game window is one changes. (by michicc)
19:09:38  <DorpsGek_III>   - Fix: Use natural sort when sorting the file list. (by j-pet)
19:09:38  <DorpsGek_III>   - Fix: inconsistent description for 32bpp-sse4-anim blitter (#7740) (by glx22)
19:09:40  <DorpsGek_III>   - Fix: Avoid using stat to retrieve file modification times on Windows (#7731) (by orudge)
19:09:40  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Changelog for 1.9.3 and prepare for release (by nielsmh)
19:09:49  <LordAro> oh yeah, there was that thing that TB said we should do
19:10:01  <LordAro> ah well, probably the last change to that branch
19:10:17  <nielsm> hm?
19:11:22  <LordAro>
19:11:33  <nielsm> ah
19:14:08  <nielsm> tag and release made
19:17:06  <LordAro> \o/
19:17:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #100: Add: Release 1.9.3 newspost
19:17:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #100: Add: Release 1.9.3 newspost
19:17:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro pushed 1 commits to master
19:17:46  <DorpsGek_III>   - Add: Release 1.9.3 newspost (#100) (by nielsmh)
19:19:03  <nielsm>
19:19:56  <andythenorth> quak
19:20:38  <LordAro> website needs a tag once the CI is done
19:26:22  <nielsm> the container build process for the website still feels rather ridiculous to me
19:26:49  <nielsm> on the level of, "we need a new post on the website, order a new machine so we can set it up and trash the old server afterwards"
19:27:08  <andythenorth> that's the modern world
19:27:13  <nielsm> (I know that's not quite what's happening)
19:27:13  <andythenorth> remember when we had ftp? :P
19:27:36  <nielsm> hacking your php3 website in production over ftp
19:27:40  <nielsm> that was life
19:27:41  <andythenorth> yes
19:27:44  <andythenorth> editing live
19:27:52  <andythenorth> and multi-tenant
19:27:57  <andythenorth> no isolation
19:28:05  <andythenorth> all customers in one DB on one box
19:28:18  <andythenorth> 'table based isolation strategy'
19:28:20  <andythenorth> :P
19:30:43  <nielsm> website released
19:30:54  <LordAro> haha
19:30:57  <LordAro> woo
19:31:17  <milek7> i still do it
19:31:24  <milek7> (hacking production over ftp)
19:31:45  <nielsm> depends on what you're producing, really ;)
19:34:24  <peter1139> NewGRF dock patches?
19:35:35  <nielsm> website is up!
19:35:39  <nielsm> who fixes topic etc?
19:37:40  <LordAro> someone with op
19:37:43  <LordAro> @whoami
19:37:43  <DorpsGek> LordAro: I don't recognize you.
19:38:20  <andythenorth> hurrah
19:38:27  <andythenorth> peter1139: backport to 1.9.4!
19:38:31  <peter1139> @whoami
19:38:31  <DorpsGek> peter1139: I don't recognize you.
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19:38:42  <andythenorth> hmm I think I did something dumb
19:38:48  <peter1138> @whoami
19:38:48  <DorpsGek> peter1138: I don't recognize you.
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19:38:56  *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138
19:39:04  *** peter1138 changes topic to "1.9.3 | Website: * (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
19:39:32  <nielsm> anyone can do forum mod things and change stickyness of threads?
19:39:34  <peter1138> andythenorth, is it lunch time?
19:40:45  <peter1138> nielsm, done, I think. Not sure with the new(?) theme...
19:41:19  <nielsm> looks right
19:46:41  <nielsm> I did (some of) the wiki maintenance stuff for versions too, the proper version pages are not written for any 1.8 or 1.9 versions
19:47:14  <peter1138> Heh "oops"?
19:47:55  <andythenorth> peter1138: definitely lunch
19:48:36  <andythenorth> so I am using random bits from the vehicle
19:48:44  <andythenorth> and re-randomising them on load
19:48:49  <andythenorth> then I am surprised that they changed :P
19:49:01  <andythenorth> super dumb
19:49:14  * andythenorth wonders if each layer could have random bits, with re-rolls per layer
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20:22:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain opened issue #7: Always use .dorpsgek.yml of main (master) branch
20:23:09  <TrueBrain> LordAro: ^^ because we will keep forgetting to backport these things over the next months ;)
20:23:43  <LordAro> eh, it only mattered for 1.9, and now 1.9 is "done"
20:23:44  <LordAro> :p
20:24:25  <TrueBrain> yeah .... and then we branch 1.10
20:24:28  <TrueBrain> and we make another change
20:24:30  <TrueBrain> ... etc etc :P
20:24:37  <TrueBrain> so that ticket is the "proper" fix :D
20:24:42  <TrueBrain> (the current system also makes no sense :P)
20:24:51  <LordAro> if you insist :p
20:25:35  <TrueBrain> I do! :D
20:26:09  <TrueBrain> and gratz on release :D
20:26:13  <TrueBrain> happy that all "just works" :D
20:26:25  <LordAro> still!
20:30:01  <andythenorth> hurrah
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20:55:45  <Samu> can't believe it's already 2nd half of september
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21:36:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
21:37:28  <LordAro> :o
21:38:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver
21:39:18  <michi_cc> LordAro: You may look, but I won't have time to do anything more until next week or so.
21:40:22  <michi_cc> SDL/Linux implementation would be nice.
21:42:15  <LordAro> +16850,-402
21:42:16  <LordAro> nice
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22:15:13  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> my hope is that we can provide an option where cities leave large blocks of connected tiles open <-- historically, most europeans had a large section of free space just outside the city wall, which was then used for placing wide roads
22:15:30  <Eddi|zuHause> *european cities
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22:17:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but for that to work, cities need a different expansion algorithm than "place one road and one house at a time"
22:18:57  <Eddi|zuHause> something more like "build a large chunk of roads" every now and then, and then just filling it up with houses over time
22:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> (probably also changing the way that town zones work)
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22:35:10  <Eddi|zuHause> btw, i once ran an experiment with increasing the minimum distance in the "better road" algorithm:
22:43:36  <_dp_> would look really nice if those blank spots were filled with parks or smth
22:43:59  <_dp_> also will be a bit different in a recent version as it builds houses on turns now
22:44:56  <Eddi|zuHause> it makes it more apparent that there should be a resolution for the "two nearby dead ends, but cannot connect in a straight line" situation
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22:49:13  <Eddi|zuHause> simple patch that the screenshot was made with:
22:49:57  <Eddi|zuHause> some attempt at making it more generic
22:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> ... where i don't remember how complete that is
22:50:39  <Eddi|zuHause> ... this is from 2011
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23:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause> "return b-(((uint)(-a-1))%b)-1;" <-- there must be some better expression?
23:53:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z opened pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing

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