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Log for #openttd on 17th September 2019:
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00:00:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/JeOBW
00:04:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/JeOBB
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00:17:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7742: Cannot select partially visible station items https://git.io/JeOTK
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00:54:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7746: Fix #7742, 66dd7c3: widget position can be negative https://git.io/JeOBd
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02:28:11  <supermop_Home_> Eddi|zuHause that looks great
02:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> there must have been a reason why i never posted it, but i can't figure it out
02:30:59  <Eddi|zuHause> http://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd&date=1323129600 <-- related discussion
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03:58:03  <supermop_Home_> i certainly think there's a use for more / better road layouts that can provide a bit more space
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06:40:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7745: Feature: setting for more flexible town spacing https://git.io/JeOul
06:56:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7746: Fix #7742, 66dd7c3: widget position can be negative https://git.io/JeOug
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09:36:12  <dihedral> Hello
09:36:24  <dihedral> How is everybody
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10:15:28  <andythenorth> oh eh
10:15:51  <andythenorth> I've triggered 22fps instead of 33fps
10:16:08  <andythenorth> this is a transient issue that has no obvious repro
10:16:23  * andythenorth looks at it to see if it disappears :P
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11:04:49  <peter1138> I'm wondering about lunch.
11:08:42  <andythenorth> also
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12:00:11  <andythenorth> did we conclude lunch?
12:00:24  * andythenorth had coffee to stay alive
12:19:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JeOVC
12:55:06  <peter1138> I had lunch, and a green tea.
12:55:55  <LordAro> i had lunch, and mince pies
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12:58:01  <andythenorth> scrambled eggs
12:59:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 commented on pull request #7510: Emscripten support https://git.io/JeOVj
12:59:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 closed pull request #7510: Emscripten support https://git.io/fjm0r
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13:50:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Honza1987 commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
13:54:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
13:57:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Honza1987 commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
13:59:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
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14:01:44  <nielsm> moo
14:01:50  <andythenorth> syo
14:01:55  <andythenorth> or just yo
14:03:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Honza1987 commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
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14:11:29  <LordAro> meow
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14:12:55  <andythenorth> wish I could write with more clarity :)
14:13:04  <andythenorth> something goes missing brain -> screen
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15:16:54  <Samu> making towns a nightmare for pathfinders
15:19:39  <Samu> pathfinders and islands/holes https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7745
15:20:25  <Samu> or in this case, finding a spot for a station
15:22:43  <Samu> i should actually rework my build station code
15:23:21  <Samu> it's been working based on assumptions
15:23:34  <Samu> that roads are always connected to the center of town
15:26:41  <Samu> i should perhaps pathfind from a center of a town to the center of the other town
15:27:18  <Samu> if this succeeds in test mode, then i should try finding a station spot
15:29:17  <Samu> almost all AIs have 1 road depot per town, or 2 per route
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15:29:31  <Samu> i currently don't share road depots,hmm
15:29:41  <Samu> only 1 depot per route
15:32:05  <Samu> I have more control with a unique depot per route, than I would with shared depots
15:33:02  <Samu> shared depots would be troublesome, I wouldn't know how to remove them if I want to terminate a route
15:33:46  <nielsm> well just don't remove them?
15:34:08  <nielsm> or, when removing a station, check if any depots are nearby, and if there are, check if any other stations are nearby and if not then remove the depot
15:34:29  <andythenorth> 2.0 also
15:36:34  <Samu> must find my code about sending a road vehicle to a depot
15:37:47  <Samu> ah, I remember, it goes to any random depot that happens to be nearby
15:38:29  <Samu> when I renew a vehicle, i sell it from the depot it went to, and build it back on the route's specific depot
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15:38:51  <Samu> kind of teleporting
15:40:29  <Samu> but what happens if I terminate a route where I have a road vehicle currently heading to that route depot?
15:42:22  <Samu> interesting, this has never happened to me
15:42:30  <Samu> i wonder what happens
15:42:37  <Samu> lost road vehicle?
15:42:47  <Samu> road vehicle goes to another depot automatically?
15:43:25  <Samu> i re-order the vehicle to another depot? I actually dont know
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17:57:45  <Wolf01> How is elite dangerous compared to X?
17:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause> whatever to *shrugs*?
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18:01:28  <Wolf01> It's discounted, but I don't want to get another everspace
18:02:14  <Wolf01> (not that everspace is bad, but not really my kind of game, it's like a coin op)
18:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, never played any of those games.
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18:04:37  <Wolf01> peter1138?
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18:11:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #7746: Fix #7742, 66dd7c3: widget position can be negative https://git.io/JeOBd
18:11:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #7742: Cannot select partially visible station items https://git.io/JeOTK
18:15:32  <LordAro> anyone opposed to me merging SDL2 PR?
18:15:44  <LordAro> i'd like to get it in before -beta1
18:16:49  <LordAro> and what did we decide to do regarding #7630 & #7680 ? merge the latter into the former?
18:16:49  <nnyby> ^_^
18:25:17  <andythenorth> SLD2 is unmerged, not in nightlies?
18:29:16  <nnyby> correct, sdl2 is unmerged, not in nightlies. and yeah, if that's still planned for 1.10, then it would be good to get it in before any sort of beta release.
18:30:00  <andythenorth> merge it, see what reports come from nightlies?
18:30:38  <LordAro> that's the idea
18:31:06  <andythenorth> boom boom
18:31:31  * andythenorth waiting for visual diff to run, for work purposes
18:31:39  <andythenorth> visual diff needs to be faster
18:31:55  <LordAro> nnyby: can i be really really annoying?
18:32:30  <LordAro> can the commit history be cleaned up? pretty much everything before "Separate SDL2 code into a new video driver" can be removed
18:32:37  <LordAro> or squashed down
18:32:48  <LordAro> and a few things after that as well
18:33:17  <nnyby> sure.. i will squash that rn
18:33:41  <nnyby> i did make a few small changes after separating it into a new video driver... which may complicate the rebase.. i'll see what i can do
18:33:51  <LordAro> thanks :)
18:39:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
18:40:05  <nnyby> it's now three commits
18:51:04  <LordAro> nnyby: ...which has missed out on what i actually wanted :> i don't like the fact that the PR changes sdl_v.cpp, then changes it back again
18:51:17  <LordAro> might as well squash it into 1 commit, really
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18:51:39  <Samu> CivilAI seems to shine past superbus era
18:51:40  <nnyby> alright
18:52:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
18:53:57  <nnyby> yeah, much cleaner history if it just doesn't touch sdl_v.cpp at all
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19:00:54  <Samu> testing different AIs on desert tileset without industries, just towns
19:01:04  <Samu> and limited to road vehicles only
19:01:23  <Samu> aka pass + mail
19:03:03  <Samu> NoNoCAB leads in profits, year 2024
19:03:28  <Samu> mine is 2nd
19:03:33  <Samu> cluelessplus 3rd
19:03:42  <Samu> and the surprise, civilai 4th
19:05:42  <Samu> i have yet to find the best perfect optimal profit distance between 2 points
19:05:59  <Samu> compute it the correct way
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19:23:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/JeO16
19:24:03  <TrueBrain> sorry, you triggered my OCD. You only have yourself to blame :P (I like how small the PR became :D)
19:27:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
19:28:13  <TrueBrain> shouldn't it be #elif defined() ?
19:28:51  <andythenorth> TRUEBRAIN!
19:28:53  <andythenorth> hi :)
19:29:19  <TrueBrain> IT WASNT ME
19:29:21  <TrueBrain> I PROMISE
19:29:29  <andythenorth> sounds like a famous song
19:31:33  <TrueBrain> LordAro most likely knows if it should be #elif defined(X) or if #elif X works ... I am too rusty with C++
19:31:51  <LordAro> it should be #elif defined()
19:31:57  <LordAro> alas, #elifdef is not a thing
19:32:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ
19:33:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver https://git.io/JeO8B
19:33:55  <michi_cc> Let's see if that cloud Visual Studio will behave now :)
19:34:04  <TrueBrain> NEVAH
19:36:02  <Samu> what's the difference between SDL and OpenGL
19:37:17  <TrueBrain> https://nl.lmgtfy.com/?q=sdl+vs+opengl&p=1
19:37:37  <TrueBrain> https://lmgtfy.com/?q=sdl+vs+opengl&p=1 for the non-dutchies :P
19:39:23  <nnyby> they are different layers of abstraction. SDL can actually use OpenGL
19:43:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver https://git.io/JeO8B
19:44:35  <Samu> hum.. what of Vulcan?
19:44:43  <TrueBrain> life long
19:44:45  <TrueBrain> live long?
19:44:52  <TrueBrain> live long and prosper
19:45:39  <Wolf01> I think I'll sleep
19:45:50  <TrueBrain> granted
19:45:50  <TrueBrain> you may leave
19:45:51  <TrueBrain> :D Night Wolf01 :)
19:46:11  * Wolf01 fires up netflix
19:46:21  <nnyby> that's not how you sleep
19:46:35  <TrueBrain> no, you have just been doing it wrong :D
19:47:02  <Samu> https://www.khronos.org/vulkan/
19:47:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm in the annoying part of civ again, where everything takes ages, but nothing i do is ever the correct way to do it :/
19:48:02  <Eddi|zuHause> ... has somebody pointed andythenorth to the log of last night yet?
19:48:15  <Wolf01> I usually sleed withing 15 minutes while watching netflix, I call it sleepflix
19:49:12  <Eddi|zuHause> netflix and sleep?
19:50:58  <Samu> CivilAI is attempting 3rd place
19:51:28  <andythenorth> cities? )
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19:53:22  <Samu> has a better profit/veh ratio than my AI
19:54:07  <Samu> why don't some AIs get 500 road vehicles as fast as they can?
19:54:30  <Samu> they wait too much
19:54:39  <nielsm> samu have you ever heard of the saying "perfect is the enemy of good"?
19:54:47  <nielsm> because I think you're falling into that trap
19:54:54  <milek7> if this is only backend driver, wouldn't it be essentially the same as SDL_HWACCEL?
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20:15:54  <michi_cc> milek7: If you assume that SDL knows how to accelerate OTTD specific RGBA palette remapping...
20:16:08  <milek7> hmm, right
20:17:24  <michi_cc> And before you say that: yes, using libs like GLEW could probably reduce the code size a lot, but half the motivation to do this was for me to get more familiar with OpenGL. And just slapping in a library doesn't do that.
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20:19:50  <michi_cc> Also, I have thought about how to accelerate the drawing further than that, even if it's not done so far.
20:21:59  <milek7> opengl is annoying, too much version segmentation :(
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20:23:40  <milek7> and you either end with doing thing old way (cumbersome api and potentially slow), new way (cut off half of userbase), or have dozens of codepaths supporting both
20:24:22  <nnyby> hmmm, it looks like SDL is kind of on the same level as GLFW. except glfw doesn't handle sound
20:24:40  <milek7> oh, and there is that GLES thing, which is almost the same... but not exactly
20:25:00  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I am intending to try your patch btw
20:26:43  <milek7> and of course API that end in core are frequently different than EXT predecessor, even more codepaths...
20:31:23  <milek7> azure CI doesn't publish compiled binaries?
20:31:47  <LordAro> only if specially(tm) specified
20:31:47  <nielsm> the regular PR builds don't no
20:31:58  <nielsm> since that could publish un-reviewed code
20:32:37  <milek7> well, it is not codesigned :P
20:34:04  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it might not be immediately obvious/properly explained what the settings do.
20:34:52  <LordAro> milek7: we don't really want to have to check every PR for bitcoin miners/botnets/etc
20:36:14  <andythenorth> or worse, new features for Toyland
20:36:50  <nnyby> toyland hurts my eyes o_o
20:37:54  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the original patch that the screenshot was done with was just a one-liner, btw.
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21:04:52  * andythenorth compiling
21:08:32  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: interesting
21:08:44  <andythenorth> did we always allow buildings to build non-adjacent to roads?
21:17:20  <LordAro> wasn't there something relatively recently to do with putting buildings on corners?
21:17:31  <LordAro> or did that never get merged
21:17:42  <LordAro> also presumably some special cases for 3x3 layouts
21:19:39  <andythenorth> anyway the new grid options are appealing
21:19:43  <andythenorth> towns just look better
21:20:01  <andythenorth> somewhat like the breadth-first rivers patch :D
21:20:48  <andythenorth> doesn't create more room for big stations, but more chance of getting tunnels or bridges in
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21:32:31  <andythenorth> we should probably ship it
21:32:43  <andythenorth> settings text need a bit more info
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22:02:17  <Eddi|zuHause> we've had special code for 3x3 grid fillings for ages, the corner thing is new
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