Log for #openttd on 29th September 2019:
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06:52:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries
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07:05:54  <Wolf01> Caboose
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07:16:13  <andythenorth> yo
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07:46:04  <andythenorth> nielsm: o/
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07:57:32  <nielsm> morning andythenorth
08:00:48  <andythenorth> I have just released Horse 2.1 :)
08:00:56  <andythenorth> which means I have some headspace for other things
08:01:37  <andythenorth> I have a big FIRS dev branch, and I'm working on cutting some of it out for a v4 FIRS release
08:01:56  <andythenorth> I remembered that maybe 16 cargo nml docs needed finalised?
08:02:28  <andythenorth> I could help finish them
08:02:39  <andythenorth> also the industry directory window crash, I could help with maybe
08:21:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7630: Fix warnings from GCC9
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08:28:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/CompileFarm] TrueBrain commented on issue #18: Linux error messages contain lots of docker "errors"
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08:52:51  <Ettiene> |Good morning, are there any servers or anybody that is willing to accomodate about 3 players that "kind of" regularly play. Hosting my own server doesn't really work out that well
09:02:36  <nielsm> if you're fine with playing with other random people and the game continuing when you aren't on, just pick a random public server
09:03:17  <nielsm> if you want a private game with your own settings, you might have to pay someone to host for you
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09:33:11  <Ettiene> most of them seem to have passwords on them?
09:34:39  <Ettiene> (ok nvm, you answered my question :) )
09:46:13  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> which means I have some headspace for other things <- nerf something, or tanks
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10:06:57  <FLHerne> Ettiene: Reddit server 1 seems to be the most popular public server for "normal" gameplay
10:07:31  <FLHerne> It's always online, big map and no goals so you can pretty much do what you like
10:08:09  <FLHerne> Only issue is that the company slots often fill up
10:08:16  <FLHerne> You can usually ask to join an existing one
10:09:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] abmyii commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries
10:10:09  <Ettiene> Thanks Herne
10:17:55  <peter1138> They have dumb rules about industry 'ownership' though.
10:20:06  <Samu> what rules do they have
10:21:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] abmyii commented on pull request #7752: Prevent sounds being produced by inactive industries
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10:22:58  <peter1138>
10:25:07  <troy_> i'am useing openttd 1.9.3. installd to update from 1.9.2 and i have download the himalaya map. but as i have build a train with a carriage it works. but if a will build another one or extened a existing one de carriage is from the list. as any one other this prolbem?
10:26:43  <FLHerne> peter1138: Only secondary ones, which makes some sense to me
10:26:58  <peter1138> It's bullshit.
10:27:12  <FLHerne> I think we had this argument before :P
10:27:35  <FLHerne> troy_: I don't quite understand, sorry
10:27:43  <FLHerne> A screenshot might help?
10:29:20  <troy_> where can i upload it?
10:30:02  <Samu> oh, the secondary rules
10:30:38  <Samu> andythenorth proved there are no primary or secondary industries with firs
10:33:01  <Samu> he got some industries which already produce "primary" cargo, but if delivered cargo, they produce more of that primary cargo, makes it hard to identify which industry is primary
10:33:13  <Samu> which is secondary
10:33:27  <Samu> bends conventional rules
10:34:06  <peter1138> s/conventional/stupid/
10:35:23  <Samu> i wonder what's the industry chain like for those industries
10:35:43  <Samu> an infinite loop?
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10:38:13  <Samu> bank <-> bank
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10:50:10  <Wolf01> <Samu> he got some industries which already produce "primary" cargo, but if delivered cargo, they produce more of that primary cargo, makes it hard to identify which industry is primary <- that's the boost cargo, usually "* supplies", there should apply the rule (s/rule/bullshit) "if I'm boosting this industry don't steal from it", it doesn't matter if primary or secondary
10:51:29  <Wolf01> Also I would be fine if we could introduce that game mechanic directly into the game, you already have "buy exclusive transport rights" in cities
10:53:50  <Samu> buy exclusive transport rights for all industries of this town?
10:54:29  <Samu> or per industry?
10:55:53  <nielsm> per industry would make most sense, making an exclusivity deal with another private enterprise
10:56:34  <nielsm> but then town exclusivity should also be changed to only apply to passengers and mail
10:57:09  <Samu> I had a poorly made PR that was prioritizing companies which were delivering cargo to an industry, making secondary cargo be available more often to stations of that company
10:57:35  <Samu> but then newgrfs like firs broke it
10:58:19  <Samu> not a PR, actually, just something on my fork
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11:02:04  <Samu>
11:02:47  <Samu>
11:02:50  <Samu> better link
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11:17:52  <_dp_> yeah, industry sharing mechanics would be very nice to have
11:18:08  <_dp_> but that should be just game rule not stupid bs like exclusive rights
11:20:01  <_dp_> e.g. some way to define (via gs i guess) how each industry type behaves
11:24:49  <FLHerne> Anyone for a quiet FIRS-basic/Iron Horse game?
11:25:37  <FLHerne> In the server list under 'Casual UK-ish server'
11:41:44  <michi_cc> Hmm, did nobody change any languages this week or did the EINTS commit bot die?
11:46:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #7754: Fix: [OSX] Wrong allocator usage for creating a CFString.
11:49:35  <michi_cc> nielsm: Regarding #7717, would you approve it in general (assuming we agree on whatever name)?
11:49:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7717: Codechange: [OSX] Use std::unique_ptr with a custom deleter to simply…
11:51:31  <nielsm> I didn't find any bad things last I looked over it
11:55:19  <michi_cc> My alternative name suggestion would be CFAutoRelease, because I'd prefer if the name is similar to CFRelease.
11:55:38  <michi_cc> Or maybe CFAutoReleaser if grammar is a thing.
12:03:29  <peter1138> Is it lunch time?
12:05:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7754: Fix: [OSX] Wrong allocator usage for creating a CFString.
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13:24:38  <andythenorth> yo
14:12:02  <planetmaker> we need someone who is taking care of the translators. No-one replied to translators for a few months :|
14:12:51  <planetmaker> it requires reading and writing e-mails and assigning translator roles
14:15:08  <planetmaker> hm... last valid translation request was in... July
14:15:12  <planetmaker> translator
14:29:57  <andythenorth> does it have to be via email?
14:30:27  * andythenorth wonders about a public system
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14:40:59  <nielsm> or simpler in-system with direct approval?
14:41:09  <nielsm> in-system request *
14:43:23  <planetmaker> I would argue to have some human between registration and commit access to translations
14:44:03  <planetmaker> You might otherwise quickly end-up spam bots "translating"
14:45:03  <planetmaker> besides that I'm not arguing for any particular system of how translations should be handled. I'm just quoting how they are handled now (or badly handled)
14:45:06  <nielsm> that's my intended meaning
14:45:12  <planetmaker> s/badly/negligently/
14:45:21  <nielsm> you click a button to request access to translate, someone sees that request and approves it
14:45:34  <nielsm> without having to send an email and someone else to read it and then do a bunch of manual stuff
14:47:19  <planetmaker> Anyhow. The "how" is not ... the question. But the "who does it now". It obviously is not me to a good enough extent. I asked the same question about a year ago. The same answers. No change
14:50:30  <planetmaker> yes, going through the phpldapadmin for every request is really lengthy and mind-numbing
14:51:29  <planetmaker> But besides it needs means for personal communication if there's requests for new languages or non-standard stuff
14:51:35  <planetmaker> but that needs not be the default
14:53:40  <andythenorth> afaik, we no longer have anybody administering the project?
14:54:05  <andythenorth> obviously we have good rate of dev & PR approval
14:54:21  <andythenorth> but if someone asked me who looks after admin stuff I wouldn't know who to say
14:54:26  <planetmaker> somewhat... dunno? what do you reference with "the project"? OpenTTD as a whole?
14:54:30  <andythenorth> yes
14:54:45  <andythenorth> I don't know who it used to be
14:54:48  <glx> depends on what admin stuff
14:54:48  <planetmaker> yes, I agree. I don't really know whom to ask the stuff I cannot do
14:55:08  <andythenorth> orudge does the money?
14:55:14  <glx> yes
14:55:15  <planetmaker> yes
14:55:34  <andythenorth> ok, so TB does most of the infra
14:56:00  <andythenorth> so that just leaves translations, and random requests?
14:56:14  <andythenorth> frosch was geting the random requests, but is retired
14:56:24  <planetmaker> TB is not in .tgp though... which I greatly regret
14:57:00  <planetmaker> is he officially retired? :-O
14:57:34  <frosch123> i am available for random requests :)
14:57:44  <planetmaker> :)
14:57:49  <frosch123> but i have not done anything ottd for a year
14:58:07  <glx> oh that happened to many of us I think
14:58:39  <planetmaker> ^^
14:59:31  <planetmaker> just to be clear, the work with translations is not huge (anymore). Counting the e-mails asking for access since February is a a low 2-digit number
14:59:43  <planetmaker> the bigger number is deleting the spam to the address
15:00:06  <planetmaker> s/address/mails
15:00:10  <glx> but translator managing could be simpler (probably)
15:00:21  <andythenorth> the reason I am not offering is that I don't read emails :P
15:00:50  <planetmaker> obviously I look at those e-mails every few months... but that's too infrequently
15:04:16  <planetmaker> 29 since 2nd February
15:08:23  <andythenorth> 29 genuine?
15:08:35  <planetmaker> 29 genuine mails to translators, yes
15:08:49  <planetmaker> compared to previous years that sounds like very few, though
15:09:16  <planetmaker> but that's the current status
15:09:41  <planetmaker> And I just deleted like the same or slightly more spam mails since that date
15:10:31  <andythenorth> is it documented what to do when a translation request is received?
15:10:40  <andythenorth> could literally be policy in the main repo
15:11:28  <planetmaker> Not sure it's written down. But tells people "mail us to have the translation manager grant you access"
15:12:36  <planetmaker> so the translation manager reads mail (looking for account name quoted), opens phpldapadmin, and assigns requested language(s) to that account. commit. answer e-mail with "you are now translator. you might need to re-login for this to take effect"
15:13:58  <planetmaker> don't try to open the list of all users, though. It's too many, it will time out :P
15:14:13  <planetmaker> you need to search for the username :)
15:14:52  <planetmaker> (or e-mail, whatever identifies a user)
15:14:54  * andythenorth wonders about adding that to
15:16:01  <frosch123> it's a somewhat trustworthy job
15:16:12  <frosch123> you can't give that to a stranger
15:16:42  <andythenorth> it was asked about a few times in this channel in last ~1 year
15:16:55  <andythenorth> impression I got was that it was a mystery to most people who might be trusted
15:17:10  <andythenorth> or I misunderstood TB
15:17:37  <andythenorth> :D
15:17:40  <frosch123> i think it's more about spam protection
15:17:59  <frosch123> have no ln annoy you every second day
15:19:03  <andythenorth> hmm, FIRS v4 by halloween? :)
15:19:59  <planetmaker> well, translation manager basically needs to be trustworthy as he has access to all personal information registered with OpenTTD since time beginning
15:20:47  <frosch123> i am sure you can also assig other roles than just translators :)
15:21:21  <planetmaker> yes. I probably can change or add any other role. Never tried... phpldapadmin is scary... and not exactly user-friendly either ;)
15:37:48  <nielsm> I could maybe try to set up an eints development environment here and try to add a kind of user management to it
15:41:33  <TrueBrain> what you could do, is use GitHub authentication, and use a GitHub group per language to assign people
15:41:42  <TrueBrain> saves you from building a user manager yourself
15:42:04  <TrueBrain> (and the SSO of OpenTTD will be retired, hopefully before 2020, anyway; so replacing that for eints would be a huge step forwards)
15:42:32  <TrueBrain> we just haven't talked really about if we want GitHub to be our central user manager, I guess :P
15:42:37  <TrueBrain> just spitting ideas
15:42:46  <glx> ldap is used only for eints and bananas ?
15:43:03  <TrueBrain> and some infra stuff, but yes
15:43:12  * andythenorth mumbles about coop eints
15:43:21  <andythenorth> and having two parallelt translators
15:43:34  <andythenorth> one thing at a time andythenorth
15:43:47  <glx> using github as user manager doesn't seem wrong
15:44:03  <TrueBrain> and yes, andythenorth, I am always very vague who the "translation manager" is, as otherwise people will start bugging people personally, instead of the group as a whole
15:44:21  <glx> translation requests could even be done in issues
15:44:38  <TrueBrain> or you could even make a repository with .csv files per language stating who has access
15:44:45  <TrueBrain> means the PR needs to be approved
15:44:47  <andythenorth> if it's a role to be followed, not a talent, then it should have a process :D
15:45:14  <TrueBrain> I tend to use PR approval for everything that needs a second person looking at it :D
15:45:33  <TrueBrain> saves me from inventing my own system time after time :P
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15:45:40  <TrueBrain> anyway,foodz
15:48:45  <nielsm> okay if the openttd ldap is meant to be retired "some time soon" then it may not be worth it trying to expand eints to have user management
15:49:55  <TrueBrain> It is already overdue, basically :(
15:51:14  <glx> github authentication and a way to link github user to allowed languages should be easier to manage
15:53:05  <glx> and probably more transparent to translators so they could know who are the other translators for their languages
15:53:07  <TrueBrain> Possibly that even means translators find a way to talk to each other :D
15:53:14  <TrueBrain> :D
15:59:50  <nielsm> could maybe also have the language changes be submitted to the repos with the translator's identity instead of as eints alone
16:00:12  <nielsm> though that would mean multiple commits on multiple language changes
16:00:32  <nielsm> * on multiple languages changed
16:01:12  <glx> IIRC details are in the commit message
16:01:56  <TrueBrain> A commit can have multiple authors
16:02:09  <TrueBrain> Not a bad idea tbh, credit where credit is due
16:02:43  <nielsm> well it'd seem weird if I end up co-credited for the russian translation just because that happened to be updated the same day as I updated the danish one
16:03:48  <glx> with details in the message it should be ok
16:04:28  <glx> it's like a PR squash
16:05:09  <TrueBrain> A commit per author per day would also not be bad
16:05:22  <TrueBrain> It is not like it will make many more commits
16:05:29  <nielsm> yes I think per-author per-day would be the cleanest history wise
16:05:50  <TrueBrain> Possibly you could look at it and show how that would look?
16:05:51  <nielsm> clear credit for who did what
16:05:54  <glx> per-language could be enough
16:06:15  <TrueBrain> I would do per author
16:06:29  <nielsm> well multiple authors on one language in one day gets slightly tricky then
16:06:48  <nielsm> you'd do multiple commits on the same file
16:06:58  <nielsm> which would need the changes from just that user
16:07:11  <nielsm> and handle cases where both translators touched the same lines
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16:08:53  <nielsm> you'd kind of end up with eints needing to keep its own branch history for each line changed, and then construct a series of commits at the turn of the day based on a git blame kind of thing
16:09:28  <glx> only the latest change for a line is used at commit time
16:12:09  <nielsm> but yeah an oauth based login and then storing user permissions in one/more files in the repo itself would probably work well
16:12:10  <nielsm>
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16:31:11  <frosch123> i have a partial implementation of that
16:31:24  <frosch123> if you want to continue it, just shout
16:34:02  <planetmaker> right... for now I handled all translation requests for this year up to now
16:34:18  <frosch123> planetmaker: nice, thanks :)
16:35:17  <planetmaker> translation commits per author would IMHO be awesome. It would show more who did what work and how much. which can give incentive
16:39:56  <andythenorth> +1
16:41:46  <andythenorth> oof
16:41:48  <andythenorth> crashed OpenTTD
16:42:09  <glx> what kind of crash ?
16:42:54  <andythenorth> assert on NRT station tile
16:43:54  <glx> I hope you can repdroduce it
16:44:05  <andythenorth>
16:44:10  <andythenorth> dunno if reproducible
16:44:13  <andythenorth> also patched client
16:44:34  <andythenorth> I wish crash reports didn't leak half my system auth creds by default
16:45:06  <andythenorth> yup it reproduces
16:47:34  <andythenorth> trying to set an order to a specific roadstop asserts
16:48:30  <andythenorth> it's not widespread
16:51:11  <andythenorth> savegame uses patched client and unreleased grfs, so I doubt it's useful
16:55:27  <nielsm> is it the creation of the order that crashes?
16:55:35  <nielsm> or the vehicle attempted to begin pathing to the destination?
16:55:42  <nielsm> or the vehicle arriving at the destination?
16:56:27  <glx> the stacktrace is not very helpful
17:04:19  <andythenorth> it repros, so I can LLDB it or something
17:04:31  <andythenorth> if someone flys alongside :P
17:05:05  <glx> knowing where the call happens should help :)
17:08:20  * andythenorth reads the LLDB docs
17:08:44  <glx> I guess it's similar to gdb
17:09:54  <andythenorth> ok so I need to inspect the stack during the crash?
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17:10:40  <andythenorth> oh lolz, I remember it has this 'bug' where LLDB it causes the system beep to repeat endlessly, and doesn't respect mute
17:14:15  <andythenorth> ok so after I trigger the assert
17:14:20  <glx> type bt
17:14:27  <glx> or bt all
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17:15:36  <glx> but bt should be enough
17:16:19  <andythenorth> looks like it's all just the crash handler
17:17:02  <andythenorth>
17:19:45  <glx> nothing exploitable there
17:19:48  <andythenorth> yeah
17:20:01  <andythenorth> so what now, try and insert more logging and crap to the line that crashes?
17:20:09  <nielsm> maybe the assert fires another thread to do the warning thing
17:20:14  * andythenorth no clue about these things
17:20:15  <nielsm> so the real error is on a different thread
17:20:48  <andythenorth>
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17:22:34  <nielsm> yeah try "thread list" next time you have the error
17:22:39  <nielsm> see what threads exist
17:22:52  <glx> but bt all lists all threads
17:22:53  <nielsm> actually just try "thread backtrace all"
17:23:00  <nielsm> oh...
17:23:13  <andythenorth> tthat's the paste above :)
17:23:37  <nielsm> I didn't read it well
17:24:40  <andythenorth> given Assertion failed at line 32 of OpenTTD.andythenorth/src/station_map.h: IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)
17:24:46  <andythenorth> can I insert a line of code there to dump the stack?
17:25:04  <nielsm> not quite
17:25:11  <andythenorth> or someone can have the savegame, and all the grfs, and the link to the PR I'm testing, and instructions :P
17:25:16  <nielsm> you should try setting a breakpoint or a tracepoint at it
17:25:28  <nielsm> if you can set a conditional breakpoint that might be best
17:26:16  <glx> is it a debug build ?
17:26:43  <andythenorth> it can be
17:27:22  <glx> ah, yeah try a debug build
17:27:27  * andythenorth food
17:28:16  <glx> optimisations in release build don't go well with debuggers
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17:37:22  <andythenorth> is debug build a configure option, or just -d on run?
17:37:35  <peter1138> configure
17:38:31  <andythenorth> google can't find it :P
17:38:49  <peter1138> ./configure --help
17:38:53  <frosch123> ./configure --enable-debug=3
17:39:15  <andythenorth> boom
17:39:17  <andythenorth> thanks
17:41:25  <frosch123> you can also try setting breakpoints
17:41:38  <frosch123> sometimes "break __assert_fail" works
17:41:49  <frosch123> but probably compiler-specific
17:46:56  <andythenorth> this is better
17:46:57  <glx> breakpoint set --name GetStationIndex --condition '!IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)'
17:47:09  <glx> should work if I understand the doc
17:47:21  <andythenorth>
17:47:43  <andythenorth> lot more stack there
17:47:47  <glx> ah it's better with a debug build :)
17:52:12  <andythenorth> this occurs when I try to route an RV to a roadstop
17:53:55  <peter1138> I wouldn't do that if I were you
17:55:10  <glx> hmm looking at the code it really should MP_STATION, unless it's an MP_INDUSTRY
17:56:16  <glx> can you display the tile type ?
17:58:16  <glx> only thing I can see is an incorrect st->xy
17:58:51  <frosch123> st->xy is the position of the station sign, it does not need to be a station tile at all
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18:03:04  <frosch123> so, yeah, that code is new, and it is wrong
18:03:15  <frosch123> if was "tile" before, not "st->xy"
18:05:07  <frosch123> i guess the fix is s/GetStationIndex(st->xy)/s->index/
18:06:49  <nielsm> it'd actually be pretty easy to make a station whose sign is on a tile belonging to a different station
18:07:00  <andythenorth> station tile moved at this station btw AIUI
18:07:12  *** Arveen has joined #openttd
18:08:39  <nielsm>
18:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause> so, did i miss anything?
18:13:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7754: [OSX] Small fixes of older code parts.
18:18:10  <LordAro> someone pls merge #7630
18:19:47  <frosch123> andythenorth:
18:20:49  <nielsm> LordAro: looking at it now
18:22:14  <andythenorth> frosch123: works
18:22:17  <andythenorth> no assert
18:22:19  <andythenorth> hi Eddi|zuHause
18:26:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7630: Fix warnings from GCC9
18:29:29  <nielsm> LordAro: sorry :)
18:29:34  <LordAro> :>
18:31:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #7754: [OSX] Small fixes of older code parts.
18:33:22  <LordAro> nielsm: pretty sure it should actually be lengthof(...) * sizeof(uint32)
18:33:37  <LordAro> ...which is the same as sizeof for an array, isn't it?
18:33:38  <nielsm> then you're repeating yourself
18:33:45  <LordAro> bit clearer though, perhaps :)
18:33:59  <nielsm> lengthof(x) is defined as sizeof(x)/sizeof(x[0])
18:34:38  <LordAro> yeah
18:34:52  <nielsm> alternatively, switch it for a std::array like that one other place in the code :D
18:34:53  <michi_cc> We do have a typed MemCpyT...
18:35:00  <nielsm> or use that one
18:35:18  <LordAro> nielsm: i like that one better :)
18:37:46  <LordAro> nielsm: alternatively, make it a vector and remove textref_stack_size at the same time
18:37:53  <LordAro> but maybe that's getting a bit out of scope
18:39:21  <LordAro> or maybe make it a std::stack, given that's in the name...
18:41:53  <nielsm> std::stack is an adapter type iirc
18:41:57  <LordAro> yeah
18:42:08  <andythenorth> what if industries don't produce until town population is > n?
18:42:16  * andythenorth still trying to make town cargos purposeful
18:42:33  <LordAro> anyway, one of the constructors passes in a pointer, so i'll just use sizeof and figure something else out later
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18:46:37  <LordAro> hrm
18:46:44  <LordAro> ./configure --with-sdl=1 should work, right?
18:48:26  <milek7> --with-sdl=sdl1
18:48:46  <LordAro> doesn't seem to work either
18:49:33  <LordAro> oh hang on, why am i trying to use sdl? i'm on mingw
18:49:37  <LordAro> must've been testing something before
18:51:51  <LordAro> ooh, new warning in the midi driver
18:51:55  <LordAro> i'll fix that while i'm here
18:57:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro updated pull request #7630: Fix warnings from GCC9
19:01:55  <Samu> my ai wins again. I think WormnestAndroid uses other settings which makes my ai look bad :(
19:04:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh approved pull request #7630: Fix warnings from GCC9
19:12:38  <Samu> this image doesn't hide some numbers
19:14:19  <Samu> got a small screen :(
19:19:37  <Samu> something weird WormAI is doing lately
19:19:46  <Samu> is selling aircraft
19:20:16  <Samu> seems to be closing air routes, it shows profits declining
19:20:47  <glx> LordAro: on mingw I'm more on the --without-sdl side
19:21:30  <glx> because I installed sdl1 and sdl2 to test the detection when updating the cmake branch
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19:23:45  <Samu> it had 86 aircraft before, if I recall, now it's down to 71
19:24:20  <Samu> there was a recession inbetween, i wonder if that is affecting it
19:25:27  <LordAro> glx: that's what i did
19:27:51  <Samu> hmm, of the 4 best AIs, WormAI had the worst recovery post recession upturn
19:28:53  <Samu> green had the best recovery, it's nearly catching up WormAI in profits atm
19:30:00  <Samu> green = RailwAI
19:30:31  <andythenorth> frosch123: should I PR that?
19:30:38  <andythenorth> or does it need more investigation?
19:31:20  <glx> I think we did all the investigation
19:34:21  *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC
19:34:40  <frosch123> andythenorth: i will, in a while
19:37:16  <andythenorth> thx :)
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20:03:44  <frosch123> hmm, first time using git since debian upgrade
20:03:54  <frosch123> git or the commit hooks give me a weird error message
20:03:57  <frosch123> i wonder what changed :p
20:05:39  <frosch123> hmm, GIT_DIR is no longer set when invocing the hooks
20:12:47  *** frosch has joined #openttd
20:14:02  <frosch>
20:14:24  <frosch> so, our commit hooks do no longer work with git 2.18+
20:14:40  <LordAro> interesting
20:14:55  <andythenorth> oof
20:14:58  <LordAro> do they error, or just silently fail?
20:15:20  <LordAro> because michi_cc(?) noticed that the message checker apparently wasn't working the other day..
20:15:20  <frosch> our scripts test whether GIT_DIR is set, and the print an error message
20:15:31  <frosch> to stderr
20:15:52  <frosch> however, my new debian stable has git 2.20, so 2.18 is not *new*
20:16:30  <frosch> it writes "Don't run this script from the command line." to stderr and then fails with exitcod 1
20:16:36  <frosch> so, it should reject everything?
20:17:32  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
20:17:34  <LordAro> hmm
20:17:44  <glx> it was me LordAro
20:17:44  <frosch> i think the commit-checker invokes the scripts differently
20:17:48  <frosch> so it should not be affected
20:18:02  <LordAro> right
20:18:09  <glx> and the script works but seem to check only latest commit
20:20:44  <frosch> <- the revision range is defined there
20:20:59  <frosch> no idea where TARGET_BRANCH is set
20:21:13  <glx> it's set in the yaml
20:22:07  <glx> default to master, defined for non master PR
20:23:14  <glx> looking at there's clearly something wrong as commit checker passed
20:27:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7749: Fix: Some typos found using codespell
20:27:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7749: Fix: Some typos found using codespell
20:27:57  <andythenorth> should industries require workers?
20:30:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign.
20:31:02  <nielsm> andythenorth: maybe to cross certain production thresholds
20:32:38  <andythenorth> I am trying to figure out how to make towns relevant
20:32:45  <andythenorth> maybe I played too much OpenTTD :)
20:33:06  <andythenorth> finally time to retire?
20:33:19  <frosch> try the reverse? increase production when the town is small
20:33:33  <frosch> favour deleting towns
20:33:43  <andythenorth> there is a migrations GS that looks interesting
20:33:50  <andythenorth> but Eddi's town layout patch crashes it :P
20:35:04  <andythenorth> FIRS town cargos, I just don't bother delivering
20:35:08  <Samu> WormAI built aircraft, finally
20:35:19  <andythenorth> there is no purpose to towns, except to get in the way :)
20:36:26  <Samu> make cities require less houses to upgrade in house quality
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20:37:31  <Samu> making them expand less roads, but have more bigger houses
20:39:03  <Samu> maybe a new town type, above cities
20:39:14  <Samu> capitol or so
20:39:45  <andythenorth> this was ideal, because above the snowline the towns are nerfed :P,%2014-11-1996.png
20:40:43  <Samu> ewww newgrfs
20:40:57  <Samu> I never understand what's a station, what's a industry
20:41:55  <frosch> glx: it works when i execute the hooks locally for 7752
20:42:18  <frosch> TARGET_BRANCH is printed in the logs
20:43:59  <frosch> so, no idea
20:44:29  <glx> hmm rebasing step looks wrong
20:45:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign.
20:45:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] planetmaker approved pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign.
20:46:02  <andythenorth> hurrah
20:46:14  <frosch> it's a race :p
20:46:21  <planetmaker> :P
20:46:34  <andythenorth> are big maps fun?
20:46:37  <planetmaker> I leave it to you though to merge it
20:46:43  <planetmaker> :)
20:46:43  * andythenorth needs something to jazz up openttd
20:46:56  <planetmaker> long maps are fun
20:46:56  <LordAro> andythenorth: turn the music on
20:47:08  <glx> hmm "Note: switching to 'refs/remotes/pull/7752/merge'." used to be head, not merge IIRC
20:47:18  <glx> in the checkout step
20:47:24  <andythenorth> mmm music
20:48:02  <andythenorth> also, I should stop playing FIRS Basic economies
20:48:16  <andythenorth> but I have to play test changes :P
20:48:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #7755: Fix fbbbc6e1931: Crash when creating orders to stations with relocated station sign.
20:48:35  <andythenorth> industries need pax?
20:48:42  <andythenorth> industries check town register for pax transport?
20:48:45  <andythenorth> pax = supplies?
20:49:13  <andythenorth> change town black holes to processors, cargo in, waste out?
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20:49:40  <arikover> hi
20:49:49  <andythenorth> change all industry production to be proportional to town popn?
20:50:36  <arikover> andythenorth: did you try the Migration GS?
20:51:16  <frosch> you joined 4 minutes too late :p
20:51:55  <Samu> in TTD, the end year was 2050
20:52:08  <Samu> why is it 2051 in OTTD?
20:52:33  <andythenorth> yes, but migration GS crashed near game start
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20:56:46  <Samu> i disagree with this + 1
20:58:13  <Samu> also static const Year ORIGINAL_END_YEAR  = 2051; should be 2050 too
20:58:24  <Samu> to make it like TTD
20:59:15  <nielsm> Samu: does TTD end when the date turns to jan 1st 2050, or when it turns to jan 1st 2051 ?
20:59:28  <nielsm> I'm pretty sure it's the latter
20:59:29  <Samu> to jan 1st 2050
20:59:39  <FLHerne> FWIW:
20:59:51  <FLHerne> I find the complaints...odd
21:01:57  <Samu> I dont know how to edit newgrfs, either
21:02:05  <LordAro> Samu: reminder that everything you say here will be forgotten, if you want to comment on the issue, comment on it
21:02:08  <andythenorth> we have a discord?
21:02:18  <LordAro> reddit has a discord
21:03:49  <andythenorth> oh this :)
21:04:56  <Samu> 2050 is already past the score screen
21:05:00  <Samu> in TTD
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21:07:25  <Samu> openttd logic is "At the end of this year,", ttd logic is "at the start of this year"
21:07:52  <Samu> not sure if it's worth complaining about it
21:07:57  <andythenorth> hmm how do I reddit?
21:08:06  <andythenorth> is reddit the new forums or what?
21:08:08  <Samu> but k i 'll post
21:08:08  <LordAro> andythenorth: memes, usually
21:08:15  <andythenorth> I don't have a reddit account
21:08:33  <LordAro> andythenorth: probably for the best
21:08:42  <frosch> reddit is the new youtube comment section
21:09:08  <andythenorth> I feel like I should answer this
21:09:18  <frosch> various channel disable youtube comments entirely and link to reddit instead
21:09:27  <andythenorth> did you know there are 2 kinds of YT comments?
21:09:41  <planetmaker> well... discord... exists
21:09:41  <frosch> "first"
21:09:47  <frosch> what's the other one?
21:09:52  <andythenorth> there are the YT comments that I could write an autogenerator for
21:09:56  <andythenorth> trivially
21:10:19  <andythenorth> and there are YT comments of actually nice people sharing information and appreciation
21:10:32  <andythenorth> it really depends on the video
21:13:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year
21:14:30  *** Samu has quit IRC
21:19:38  <LordAro> i made some comments
21:19:41  <LordAro> this may backfire
21:19:54  *** arikover has quit IRC
21:19:55  <LordAro> (in FLHerne's link)
21:20:49  <FLHerne>
21:21:12  <FLHerne> I tried to write constructive instructions, can someone sanity-check them?
21:22:46  <LordAro> FLHerne: the dropdown recognises OS
21:23:11  <FLHerne> LordAro: Oh, neat
21:23:19  <FLHerne> [I've edited out that sentence]
21:24:20  <LordAro> FLHerne: LGTM
21:24:34  <LordAro> oh, s/pallette/palette/
21:24:49  <LordAro> (not that i've ever done any GRF dev work)
21:24:54  <LordAro> (but it looks sane)
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21:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> "can be painfully blunt at times" <- or maybe just german? :p
21:28:09  <LordAro> :p
21:28:30  <LordAro> lost in translations in general, i think
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21:31:28  <andythenorth> 'toxic' can sometimes be snowflake code for 'confronts me'
21:31:36  <andythenorth> and sometimes it just means toxic
21:32:44  <FLHerne> LordAro: Fixed
21:33:13  <andythenorth> first time I came in this channel, I nearly quit
21:33:30  <andythenorth> but then I remembered how usenet used to be :P
21:35:30  <FLHerne> Do we still have webchat here?
21:35:56  <planetmaker> you can use whatever means to connect to IRC
21:36:09  <FLHerne> Well, yeah
21:36:14  <frosch> FLHerne:
21:36:25  <frosch> err, minus the ".dev"
21:36:28  <frosch> that one is dead :p
21:36:29  <FLHerne> frosch: Thanks
21:37:24  <andythenorth> loving this multi-dock thing
21:41:54  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Please do, I have basically the same question :-)
21:42:30  <andythenorth> ?
21:42:45  <andythenorth> oh the FIRS question
21:43:05  <andythenorth> afaict, it's conflating ECS and FIRS
21:43:11  <andythenorth> Extreme hasn't changed much
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21:46:19  <spnda> Just a heads up. is unavailable
21:46:31  <FLHerne> I remember having some unhappiness about the farms in FIRS 2 (3?), but now I can't remember exactly what
21:46:37  <FLHerne> So perhaps it wasn't important anyway :P
21:47:04  <andythenorth> I removed clustering
21:47:09  <andythenorth> and increased production a lot
21:47:48  <frosch> spnda: no idea where you got that link from, but i don't think there have been rpms in quite some years
21:48:15  <frosch> remove the "rpms" and get the tar.gz
21:48:18  <spnda> frosch, then you should update the NML installation guide
21:48:28  <frosch> link?
21:48:59  <spnda>
21:49:04  <spnda> Under Linux
21:49:56  <spnda> Also, doesn't have any windows compiled binary download
21:50:05  <FLHerne> On the same lines, I just realized that still links to openttdcoop (and a presumably-obsolete IRC channel)
21:50:53  <spnda> The only way to get a precompiled binary of nml right now is
21:51:01  <spnda> for windows atleast
21:52:17  <frosch> <- there is a newer one
21:52:26  <frosch> but year, it broke afterwards somehow
21:53:37  <spnda> so, LATEST/ isn't actually latest?
21:54:13  <frosch> it is, but it does not contain windows
21:54:21  <frosch> i linked the second latest
21:54:50  <spnda> oh ok
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22:53:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year
23:21:06  *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC
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23:22:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #7747: Feature: Configurable ending year
23:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to have developed this habit of building stations with too few platforms...
23:25:50  <glx> and the town built around the station when you notice it
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23:37:27  <Eddi|zuHause> correct
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