Log for #openttd on 18th October 2019:
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00:52:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lolPants opened pull request #7780: Feature: Configure minimum share trading years
01:14:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lolPants commented on pull request #7780: Feature: Configure minimum share trading years
01:23:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7780: Feature: Configure minimum share trading years
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02:18:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
02:18:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lolPants updated pull request #7780: Feature: Configure minimum share trading years
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02:26:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lolPants updated pull request #7780: Feature: Configure minimum share trading years
02:32:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
02:39:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lolPants updated pull request #7780: Feature: Configure minimum share trading years
02:39:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7780: Feature: Configure minimum share trading years
03:11:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #7780: Feature: Configure minimum share trading years
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03:58:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7780: Feature: Configure minimum share trading years
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07:14:21  <andythenorth> yo
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07:24:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
07:26:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
07:26:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
07:28:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
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07:42:20  * LordAro wonders when glx sleeps
07:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> sleep is overrated
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09:07:33  <peter1138> I wish I'd slept.
09:52:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #104: Change: Don't push push notifications to IRC
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09:53:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #104: Change: Don't push push notifications to IRC
09:53:55  <peter1138> What about pushing push notification notifications?
09:54:08  <andythenorth> I want to be notified if a notification isn't pushed
09:58:26  <peter1138> I need a lunch notification.
09:58:35  <andythenorth> I had cheese on toast
09:58:38  <andythenorth> or cheese toastie
09:58:44  <andythenorth> I can't remember the approved lexicon
09:58:54  <andythenorth> we should teach DorpsGek about lunch
09:58:59  <andythenorth> DorpsGek: is it lunch?
09:59:03  <peter1138> Cheese toastie would be cheese *in* toast.
09:59:07  <andythenorth> dorpsgek @lunch
09:59:23  <andythenorth> I can't keep up with everyone's differing cultural views on cheese foods
09:59:24  <peter1138> But that sounds a bit early for lunch.
09:59:36  <andythenorth> newgrf docks?
09:59:36  <peter1138> You're British, should be simple.
09:59:40  <andythenorth> English
10:00:07  <peter1138> I thought "toastie" is a fairly clear definition, to be honest.
10:00:09  <andythenorth> do the Welsh call cheese on toast Welsh Rarebit?
10:00:11  * andythenorth wonders
10:00:16  <andythenorth> could ask the wife
10:00:43  * andythenorth had a toastie
10:01:43  <peter1138> Welsh Rarebit is supposed to be a melted cheese sauce, on toast, rather than grilling cheese, on toast.
10:19:36  <andythenorth> does it include Worcester sauce?
10:25:08  <peter1138> Unspecified.
10:25:28  <Sacro> That would be heading into melt territory
10:26:02  <andythenorth> so does anything use liballegro?
10:26:12  <peter1138> The DOS build did.
10:26:23  <peter1138> You can possibly enable it on Linux but there's no reason to.
10:26:30  <peter1138> Urgh, these grapes are a bit sharp!
10:27:17  <LordAro> could probably strip it out
10:27:33  <LordAro> peter1138: do they have knives in them?
10:30:42  <peter1138> Quite.
10:38:06  <Sacro> Classic ceaser
11:35:02  <andythenorth> lunch?
11:35:05  * andythenorth had crisps
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14:29:49  <andythenorth> so which SDL?
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14:29:55  * andythenorth editing
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15:17:54  <arikover> andythenorth: #SDL On Linux, the ./configure script requires SDL2 now. I guess that means SDL 1.2 is deprecated (for Linux) now...
15:18:28  <andythenorth> thanks
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15:42:34  <LordAro> arikover: you can specify --with-sdl=sdl1
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15:43:03  <andythenorth> does that need included in the deps list, or too detailed?
15:44:20  <LordAro> might as well remove it
15:45:30  <andythenorth> if I push current state, do all the previous review comments get removed?
15:45:45  <LordAro> they get hidden
15:45:58  <LordAro> (if github determines they are now "outdated")
15:46:10  <LordAro> if you're really lucky, it might invalidate my review
15:48:13  <andythenorth> "Since Visual Studio 2013, ATL code in Visual C++ 2013 is static, eliminating the DLL" I think this can probably go. Though would want someone who actually knows VS to comment on it
15:48:18  <andythenorth> needs an answer
15:48:49  <andythenorth> and can we delegate the detailed instructions for Windows deps to the wiki?
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15:52:56  <LordAro> andythenorth: given someone has apparently wiped out the wiki page as "out of date", i'd be cautious doing that
15:53:04  <LordAro> (i think it was you :p)
15:54:34  <planetmaker> wiping out is bad. Adding a out-of-date template is the recommended thing
15:56:18  <arikover> LordAro: Oh. Didn't know that.
15:56:46  <arikover> LordAro: Well SDL2 seems a bit quicker anyway (when fast-forwarding) (maybe wishful thinking)
15:57:03  <LordAro> i didn't notice anything when testing
15:57:06  <LordAro> but idk
16:00:32  <andythenorth>
16:00:34  <andythenorth> :D
16:00:50  <andythenorth> I used the outdate template, unless I know the page is junk
16:03:29  <andythenorth> outdated *
16:05:19  <andythenorth> I think we should either (1) move the windows deps instructions to wiki or (2) provide full compile instructions for every platform
16:05:24  <andythenorth> currently it's 2-track approach
16:05:44  <andythenorth> providing full compile instructions really starts to blur the scope of this PR :)
16:32:10  * andythenorth biab :P
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17:11:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
17:12:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
17:16:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
17:18:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
17:21:38  <andythenorth> LordAro: think I changed everything except 'OpenTTD needs the Platform SDK, if it isn't installed already. This can be...'
17:21:44  <andythenorth> which we don't know if we need
17:21:48  <andythenorth>
17:21:59  <andythenorth> and $somebody should write a wiki page for Windows compiling
17:22:12  <andythenorth> or alternately make the repo docs canonical for compiling :)
17:22:46  <planetmaker> repo docs should be for compiling... after all: who compiles has source
17:22:53  <planetmaker> and can thus make PRs
17:24:25  <andythenorth> but can those who figure out compiler problems rely on us to make docs commits? o_O
17:24:29  <andythenorth> compared to editing wiki?
17:25:01  <andythenorth> updates to the mac compile page have been vital, and I'm not sure they would have got committed here for days, weeks or even months
17:25:25  * andythenorth is not a big wiki fan, but sometimes they are useful
17:26:21  <glx> wiki can help with some details, but I think should be enough to get the info
17:26:38  <glx> and wiki are often outdated ;)
17:29:42  <glx> for windows having the MSVC step-by-step in is enough with other working options, like MSYS2, just linked to the wiki
17:30:31  <andythenorth> glx: any changes needed in that doc above? ^^
17:30:47  <andythenorth> if we want to add more compile instructions, I would rather a separate PR
17:30:57  <andythenorth> I only did this so I could improve main README :P
17:32:16  <glx> yeah for now merging/splitting current files is enough
17:32:30  <glx> if someone wants to improve it can be done later
17:33:53  <andythenorth> can we approve?
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17:54:32  <LordAro> andythenorth: i'd like someone who knows about MSVC to say something about the SDK stuff
17:54:36  <LordAro> other than that, fine
17:56:01  <glx> the SDK stuff seems ok to me
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18:08:32  <andythenorth> that'll do then :)
18:17:13  <andythenorth> can someone merge this so we can edit in place?
18:17:38  <andythenorth> actually I'll just delete it
18:21:29  <andythenorth> no that doesn't work either, I can't create files in the website repo
18:21:40  <andythenorth> GH suggests I can, but then I don't have rights after filling out all the form fields
18:21:49  <andythenorth> this is like the most lolz form of blogging ever
18:21:58  <andythenorth> TrueBrain hi
18:50:17  <glx> doesn't work for you ?
18:52:36  <andythenorth> works fine, but it's not how the blog posts should be done
18:53:02  <andythenorth> actually, no, it doesn't work
18:53:09  <andythenorth> that's lolz
18:53:40  <andythenorth> the commit button remains disabled
18:54:15  <glx> I just tried adding a space and starting to fill the commit enabled the button
18:54:48  <andythenorth> yeah that works
18:55:24  <glx> you can't edit without creating commits on github
18:55:35  <andythenorth> but then I might as well just edit in editor
18:55:41  <andythenorth> and not in a crappy browser UI :)
18:58:05  <glx> on github editor you can preview the changes ;)
18:59:09  <andythenorth> I just preview them locally in the website ;)
18:59:16  <andythenorth> jekyll install innit
18:59:33  <andythenorth> anyway, this blogging stuff is pretty unrewarding, so I'm watching YT
18:59:44  <andythenorth> I stayed up late writing a post, because we don't have any recently
18:59:48  <andythenorth> but it just goes off to die
18:59:57  <andythenorth> with a crapload of edit suggestions
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19:00:26  <andythenorth> we act surprised that nobody wants to promote the project
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19:00:31  <andythenorth> but it's ~impossible
19:00:59  <andythenorth> I rewrote the website to make this crap easier
19:01:10  <andythenorth> but was pretty much a waste of time
19:02:13  <andythenorth> we've fixed github pretty good, and the commits we have this last year are awesome
19:02:59  <andythenorth> but the website is like pulling teeth, and the newgrf tools / coop ecosystem is collapsing
19:03:11  * andythenorth goes back to watching TV shows from 1981
19:04:00  <andythenorth> it's really fucking demotivating taking on sole maintainer tasks in a system that's based on at least two people, one to commit, and one to review / merge
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19:31:30  <LordAro> andythenorth: do you want an internet hug?
19:32:07  * Wolf01 hugs andythenorth
19:32:24  <andythenorth> lolz
19:32:37  <andythenorth> I am watching original Minder and planning to rewrite README
19:33:32  <Wolf01> I'm planning to kill diablo, but I don't know if I'll be able to do it this evening
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20:00:49  <TrueBrain> wassup andythenorth?
20:03:07  <andythenorth> yo
20:03:54  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: is there a way we can reduce bullshit from making news posts?
20:03:56  <andythenorth> :)
20:04:33  <TrueBrain> owh boy, is it one of these days? Did you take those magic pills like we talked about? :D
20:04:44  <TrueBrain> gathering from the words "reduce bullshit", something triggered you :P
20:04:52  <TrueBrain> guess you need a bit more words to make that clear to me :D
20:05:06  <andythenorth> the actual trigger was World of Tanks Blitz, where I clicked a button to see what it did
20:05:17  <andythenorth> and what it did was take £20 of gold from my account with no warning
20:05:21  <TrueBrain> :o
20:05:26  <TrueBrain> that is .... wow
20:05:31  <TrueBrain> illegal in my country :)
20:05:31  <andythenorth> which is somewhat like being scammed by Belarussians
20:05:39  <andythenorth> meanwhile
20:05:44  <glx> illegal here too I think
20:06:20  <andythenorth> anyway, I stayed up late writing this
20:06:37  <andythenorth> but it's just like a massively over-engineered process to get it live
20:06:49  <TrueBrain> huh?
20:06:53  <andythenorth> at work, I want to do a blog post, I log in to Wordpress, type, press publish
20:07:00  <TrueBrain> you write blog post, someone approves it, you merge it ..
20:07:06  <TrueBrain> what .... are you smoking exactly? :D
20:07:18  <andythenorth> TL;DR async sucks
20:07:32  <andythenorth> there's no reward doing this work, it's just like unpaid work
20:07:49  <andythenorth> write...wait...wait....get review...make changes...await endless consensus
20:07:56  <andythenorth> then finally someone approves and merges
20:07:56  <TrueBrain> ah, you want dictator mode?
20:08:08  <andythenorth> dunno
20:08:09  <andythenorth> something
20:08:10  <andythenorth> anything
20:08:13  <TrueBrain> well, given that feedback you got on that pullrequest, it seems fair that we do it this way, not?
20:08:25  <TrueBrain> looking at the timestamps, you got that review REALLY quick
20:08:40  <TrueBrain> so .. I am not sure what you trying to say? (honestly, you just pushing out random words, I am trying to pick up context :D)
20:08:40  <andythenorth> dunno, we can have 'monthly' blog posts that are perfect and consesus approved
20:08:45  <andythenorth> the last one was what...July?
20:08:53  <andythenorth> or we can have less good, and it got done
20:08:58  <TrueBrain> and was that really because of the process, or because of the people?
20:09:10  <TrueBrain> seems you trying to fix something in the wrong place?
20:09:26  <andythenorth> I am probably the wrong person to try tbh
20:09:29  <andythenorth> it's my day job
20:09:39  <andythenorth> and I don't have this problem, I just write, publish
20:09:51  <andythenorth> or I just make website, put it through QA, push git tag
20:09:55  <TrueBrain> you publish external information without review?
20:09:59  <andythenorth> all the time
20:10:00  <TrueBrain> sounds you need to fix your day-job process :D
20:10:14  <TrueBrain> please, tell me at least someone else looks at your work before it hits public?
20:10:17  <andythenorth> like I said, I am the wrong person
20:10:19  <TrueBrain> :D
20:10:28  <andythenorth> I am playing with my own skin in the game
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20:11:00  <TrueBrain> anyway, still not fully sure what ticked you off in this process
20:11:11  <TrueBrain> I think it is at easy-going as it can be, given what we have
20:11:23  <TrueBrain> what would you like to see different?
20:11:33  <andythenorth> well
20:11:39  <andythenorth> we could have collaborative editing?
20:11:44  <TrueBrain> we have?
20:11:48  <andythenorth> instead of this bizarre double handling review process
20:11:57  <TrueBrain> E_DID_NOT_PARSE :)
20:12:02  <glx> anyone can push changes to PR
20:12:05  <andythenorth> I have to make a branch in my fork, commit, push, make a PR
20:12:12  <TrueBrain> you are very in-cohesive to me, sorry :(
20:12:14  <andythenorth> then wait review, then await multiple opinions on review
20:12:16  <TrueBrain> you have to do what?
20:12:25  <glx> unless you unticked the box
20:12:39  <TrueBrain> okay, so much to unwrap here .. we go from 0 to 100
20:12:41  <andythenorth> then I have to integrate changes from review, commit, push
20:12:45  <andythenorth> await more review
20:12:48  <TrueBrain> 22:12 <andythenorth> I have to make a branch in my fork, commit, push, make a PR <- no, wrong
20:12:59  <TrueBrain> you make a branch in the website repo, and you all make your changes in there
20:13:06  <TrueBrain> if you don't have those permissions, you can ask
20:13:15  <TrueBrain> (instead of this vague me-hunting-down-what-ticked-you-off)
20:13:24  <andythenorth> I have a 'make new file' button
20:13:27  <andythenorth> and I get a form
20:13:29  <andythenorth> and I fill in all fields
20:13:32  <TrueBrain> 22:12 <andythenorth> then wait review, then await multiple opinions on review <- yes; that is called collaboration. That is what you were looking for, not?
20:13:33  <andythenorth> but the button does not go green
20:13:41  <TrueBrain> so .. ask me about that problem
20:13:43  <TrueBrain> that is something I can help with
20:13:49  <TrueBrain> instead of this now lengthy conversation :)
20:14:16  <glx> you tried to make new file in a branch or master ?
20:14:18  <TrueBrain> 22:12 <andythenorth> then I have to integrate changes from review, commit, push <- no, those changes are made in the branch by who-ever has issues with it. We have done this for the last few monthly dev-posts .. I assumed that would make it clear how you should use it
20:14:21  <TrueBrain> not sure where that went wrong ..
20:14:31  <andythenorth> I tried to make a file, I must be missing a button somewhere
20:14:36  <TrueBrain> I am a bit baffled tbh ..
20:14:39  <TrueBrain> we did, what, 4 monthly dev-posts
20:14:42  <TrueBrain> without a peep
20:14:49  <TrueBrain> and all of a sudden the world is burning?
20:14:49  <andythenorth> 'Commit new file' is disabled
20:15:07  <TrueBrain> so please, don't over-react :D It doesn't make my work easier ;)
20:15:18  <TrueBrain> so, to boil down the whole story: you don't have permissions to create a branch
20:15:20  <TrueBrain> let me check :)
20:15:50  <TrueBrain> you have the same access as I do
20:15:53  <TrueBrain> so something else is amiss
20:16:07  <andythenorth> it will be user error
20:16:10  <glx> hmm I just tried, and the button goes green for me in both master and new branch
20:16:15  <TrueBrain> <- click "Branch: master", type in a name of a new branch, and there you go
20:16:16  <andythenorth> there is some field I am not seeing
20:16:43  <TrueBrain> we reuse the branch "monthly-dev-post" for ... the montly dev post
20:16:46  <TrueBrain> but this is fully optional
20:16:58  <TrueBrain> (to reuse, first remove the old, then create the new)
20:17:08  <TrueBrain> <- here you can delete branches
20:17:12  <andythenorth> ok so instructions are: edit in github, using branch monthly-dev-post?
20:17:16  <TrueBrain> (hopefully the trash-can is obvious ;))
20:17:19  <andythenorth> I will try tomorrow with new eyes
20:17:37  <TrueBrain> yes; otherwise ask help
20:17:42  <glx> but I'm an admin, I think for non admin with merge rights creating file in a new branch is possible, but not creating file in master
20:17:43  <TrueBrain> several people in here already went through this process ;)
20:17:54  <TrueBrain> glx: you are one of the few that can edit in master, yes
20:18:04  <glx> there are radio buttons in the bottom of the form
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20:28:54  <TrueBrain> pfft, they shouldn't give you choices!
20:35:59  <TrueBrain> okay, so the main question is why Azure didn't got back to me ... I wrote them a nice email, I would expect a reply by now .. even if it was to say: FU, not happening
20:36:21  <andythenorth> gold standard service :P
20:37:04  <TrueBrain> nah; just if they do any form of discounts for Open Source projects
20:37:26  <TrueBrain> they do for non-profits, but .. we don't have a legal entity ;)
20:38:06  <andythenorth> is there a 'follows #nnnn' concept in Github PRs?
20:38:14  <andythenorth> or do we have to that in notes?
20:38:29  <TrueBrain> 'follows #nnnn'?
20:38:38  <andythenorth> a PR that depends on a prior PR
20:38:50  <TrueBrain> ah; that doesn't exist, basically
20:38:58  * andythenorth trying to figure out how not to make a mess in a diff
20:38:58  <TrueBrain> either that is in the same PR, or they are not overlapping
20:39:27  <TrueBrain> comes from the idea: either you are finished or you are not
20:39:34  <glx> you can keep the branch in your repo for now, the file is editable there anyway ;)
20:39:35  <TrueBrain> I don't always agree with the choices; but at least they are choices :D
20:40:38  <andythenorth> the cleanest is to not make a PR until the prior PR is merged, which I think is what glx is suggesting
20:43:51  <glx> but you can still work on the next part from a branch of the PR, so once it's merged you just rebase your working branch
20:44:40  <andythenorth> yes
20:44:44  <andythenorth> thanks
20:45:18  <andythenorth> FWIW TrueBrain, sometime this year you wrote "some more serious thought, what would really help for OpenTTD, I think, is if the in the root folder was meant for people visiting GitHub"
20:45:25  <andythenorth> which is what I'm working on, hurrah
20:45:32  <TrueBrain> \o/
20:45:32  <glx> like my branch is based on the cmake one
20:45:38  <andythenorth> all prizes
20:46:11  <TrueBrain> in the meantime I am pretty much stuck with DigitalOcean, and I have to build much myself ..
20:46:17  <TrueBrain> but Azure is twice as expensive ..
20:46:20  <TrueBrain> which ticks me off :P
20:46:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7778: Doc: split compiling instructions from README, as they aren't requir…
20:47:11  <andythenorth> we don't have the funds? :|
20:47:18  <andythenorth> or you just like to win? :)
20:48:01  <TrueBrain> no, when starting this migration to a more managed platform, I had the goal to not spend more than twice we do now
20:48:10  <TrueBrain> which mister o said was well within what we had to spend
20:48:21  <TrueBrain> going double on that, I would have to check in again
20:48:24  <TrueBrain> possibly
20:48:39  <TrueBrain> but it also becomes this number that just sounds too big .. but possibly I should just ignore that annoying feeling
20:48:54  <TrueBrain> either way, I at least always like to ask; even if the answer is: no, we don't give discounts, that is fine
20:49:01  <TrueBrain> just the getting no reply is .. annoying
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20:50:19  <glx> the most annoying part with DO is the absence of ipv6 support
20:50:30  <TrueBrain> no IPv6 and UDP on their LB
20:50:44  <TrueBrain> the constant 404s on their CDN for reasons I still don't get
20:50:58  <TrueBrain> managed database that starts at 15 dollar a month
20:51:07  <TrueBrain> it is perfect for the small stuff
20:51:22  <TrueBrain> it becomes a bit problematic if you start to want more :)
20:51:28  <TrueBrain> which is totally fine, and I fully get it
20:51:30  <TrueBrain> not blaming DO :)
20:51:44  <andythenorth> anyone want to point out needed improvements in this, before I do too much?
20:52:05  <andythenorth> #1 improvement: it doesn't tell you where to just download OpenTTD and start playin it
20:52:09  <andythenorth> playing *
20:52:15  <TrueBrain> main issue I have, it is too long
20:52:24  <TrueBrain> lot of stuff nobody really cares about
20:52:24  <andythenorth> compiling info is split out
20:52:32  <andythenorth> other stuff could be split out
20:52:48  <andythenorth> at some point I wonder about distinction between github .md docs, and website info
20:52:54  <andythenorth> there is some blurred lines
20:52:55  <andythenorth> also wiki
20:53:05  <TrueBrain> like 5.1 and 5.2 .. nice and all .. but really in a README?
20:53:28  <TrueBrain> 7.2 ... like anyone still doing that?
20:53:39  <andythenorth> doubt it
20:53:56  <glx> 7.2 has nothing to do in the readme I think
20:54:13  <andythenorth> +1
20:54:20  <andythenorth> do we want ?
20:54:38  <glx> translation stuff should probably go in CONTRIBUTING.MD
20:55:07  <andythenorth> don't we translate with eints?
20:55:18  <glx> we do
20:55:42  <andythenorth> So, now that you have notified the development team about your intention to
20:55:43  <andythenorth> translate (You did, right? Of course you did.) you can pick up english.txt
20:55:44  <andythenorth> (found in the Git repository under /src/lang) and translate.
20:55:55  <glx> but translating is contributing
20:55:59  <TrueBrain> for me, it is not as much as slimming down, but more about making one that fits with GH
20:56:37  <andythenorth> I am going to look at a few others
20:56:56  <glx> the stuff in the readme really looks like creating a brand new translation
20:57:07  <TrueBrain> it is :)
20:57:20  <glx> and readme is not really the place for that :)
20:57:22  <andythenorth> see this is much much simpler no?
20:57:35  <TrueBrain> the README used to be for another public/goal
20:58:00  <andythenorth> times change :D
20:58:16  <TrueBrain> yes it does
20:59:04  <glx> some stuff in the readme just needs to move away from the readme, but kept in docs
20:59:31  <andythenorth> Get Started, Community, Contribute, License, Credits??
21:00:05  <andythenorth> hmm needs Supported Platforms
21:00:35  <andythenorth> and Translating
21:00:36  <andythenorth> ok
21:01:17  <glx> supported platforms can stay in readme
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21:01:34  <glx> same for installing and running
21:03:19  <glx> and we could probably generate a from settingsgen to document the config file
21:03:42  <andythenorth> oh that would be nice
21:03:53  <andythenorth> how much of this should be in website?
21:03:57  <andythenorth> or delegated to wiki?
21:04:08  <andythenorth> should mostly be links / signposts?
21:05:36  <glx> readme should at least give the info on how to run openttd
21:06:27  <glx> it's part of the bundle
21:06:48  <andythenorth> ok cool
21:06:52  <andythenorth> so keep all of
21:07:59  <glx> bug report procedure can stay too, but maybe move advanced debug (desyncs) outside of it
21:09:20  <glx> and for me supported platforms could be included in the about section
21:09:40  <andythenorth> +1
21:10:38  <andythenorth>
21:10:50  <andythenorth> Windows Allegro is now dead, if I understood correctly?
21:11:03  <andythenorth> FreeBSD and OpenBSD justify separate entries?
21:11:09  <glx> I think it was never really tested
21:11:27  <glx> for SDL I need to test but it's probably broken too
21:12:06  <andythenorth> Linux Allegro valid?
21:12:33  <glx> as it was not a full SDL app, but a win32 app with soft loading of SDL.dll
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21:13:45  <andythenorth> ok
21:14:31  <frosch123> linux allegro worked last time i tried (2 years ago)
21:15:20  <frosch123> also i need to clean my mouse
21:15:31  <frosch123> every now and then clicking left also does click right
21:15:35  <frosch123> so weird
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21:15:56  <glx> ah mine does double or triple clicks on the 3 buttons
21:16:44  <frosch123> well, your fault sounds intuitive
21:17:00  <frosch123> but i see no mechanical coupling between left and right
21:17:09  <andythenorth> no dirt in it?
21:17:11  <frosch123> first i though it was a software bug :p
21:17:15  <glx> but it's a 2002 model :)
21:17:16  <andythenorth> is the flex pinched?
21:17:19  <TrueBrain> fat fingers? :D
21:17:36  <andythenorth> most of my typing erros are because Apple keys are too close together :P
21:17:40  <glx> so probably dying microswitches
21:17:50  <frosch123> no, i tested it with xev
21:18:09  <frosch123> contant clicking and then suddenly the wrong key intermixed :p
21:18:35  <andythenorth> this ok for supported platforms + legacy support?
21:18:43  <andythenorth> ignore the heading order in the file
21:21:22  <glx> "quickly" trying building with sdl (mingw build)
21:21:45  <glx> because doing it in VS is not as easy
21:22:13  <glx> requires changes in the project file
21:23:30  <andythenorth> ? :P
21:23:53  <glx> no need for the caps :)
21:24:04  <andythenorth> docs/
21:24:07  <andythenorth> might be better
21:24:10  <glx> yes
21:24:11  <andythenorth> root of repo is getting cloudy
21:24:29  <glx> root should have basic md
21:24:55  <glx> the rest can go in docs
21:25:01  <andythenorth> +1
21:26:10  <andythenorth> seems fine?
21:26:44  <glx> should be if it's just a copy paste :)
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21:28:56  <glx> hmm building with sdl seems to work
21:29:07  <glx> needs to test some stuff
21:30:09  <glx> List of video drivers:
21:30:09  <glx>              win32: Win32 GDI Video Driver
21:30:09  <glx>                sdl: SDL Video Driver
21:30:09  <glx>          dedicated: Dedicated Video Driver
21:30:09  <glx>               null: Null Video Driver
21:30:14  <glx> seems right
21:30:26  <glx> let's try to use them now :)
21:35:44  <glx> ok sdl works, but dmusic fails with sdl driver is used
21:37:39  <glx> default driver is win32 anyway
21:40:04  <andythenorth> rewriting this
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21:40:30  <andythenorth> the wiki is official-but-not-quite?
21:40:36  <nielsm> oh turns out _that_s why this channel was so silent today
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21:40:40  <nielsm> my client hadn't joined for some reason
21:40:54  <glx> ahah dmusic fails when sdl is used  as video or sound driver
21:41:21  <glx> wiki is a wiki
21:42:03  <andythenorth>
21:42:38  <andythenorth> lol nielsm
21:43:09  <glx> nielsm: happens to me when for some reason IPv6 is down on my side
21:43:38  <nielsm> IPv6 has never been up here so that's not a cause
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22:00:18  <andythenorth> bedtime
22:00:20  *** andythenorth has quit IRC
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