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Log for #openttd on 7th November 2019:
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01:16:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] vineet131 commented on pull request #51: Codechange: Rewrite setup.py https://git.io/Jeaoa
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07:31:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
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07:44:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #51: Codechange: Rewrite setup.py https://git.io/JeaMC
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09:03:42  <dihedral> greetings
09:05:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] planetmaker commented on pull request #51: Codechange: Rewrite setup.py https://git.io/Jeaye
10:16:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] holmesmr commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
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11:46:34  <Eddi|zuHause> have we tried bisecting the mac slowdowns by putting timing counters everywhere?
11:51:40  <LordAro> we already know it's the graphics rendering
11:51:42  <LordAro> i thought
11:57:20  <Eddi|zuHause> but, can we go deeper?
11:58:51  <LordAro> i'm not sure going deeper into cocoa is worthwhile
11:59:00  <LordAro> i thought this was (at least partially) already solved anyway?
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12:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently not
12:23:10  <Eddi|zuHause> also, can we try alternatives like SDL?
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13:05:10  <andythenorth> so what haven't we instrumented yet? o_O https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7644#issuecomment-550555295
13:07:17  <milek7> couldn't this be some power saving shenanigans?
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13:31:20  <andythenorth> it could be app nap yes
13:31:50  <andythenorth> but it's not commonly a cause of performance issues
13:32:39  <andythenorth> https://www.howtogeek.com/277414/what-is-app-nap-is-it-slowing-down-my-mac-apps/
13:33:10  <Eddi|zuHause> how'd they make that shot of my cat? :p
13:33:25  <andythenorth> is your cat on free stock photo sites?
13:33:37  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause you are outed as a secret mac user :P
13:33:42  <andythenorth> you use macs as a cat bed
13:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that "app nap" doesn't seem to apply here, as it's the "active application" by any sane measures
13:36:29  <andythenorth> it's not a plausible cause
13:36:41  <andythenorth> plausible causes
13:36:48  <andythenorth> * something in openttd we're not instrumenting
13:37:01  <andythenorth> * something in the OS / hardware that has insane latency
13:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> in all likelyhood it's some system ressource that is guarded by a lock
13:38:11  * andythenorth wonders if it gets better without Chrome running
13:38:17  <andythenorth> Chrome on macOS is appalling
13:38:25  <andythenorth> followed closely by Firefox
13:38:33  <andythenorth> Chrome seems to lockup video a lot
13:39:52  <Eddi|zuHause> ... followed closely by OpenTTD? :p
13:40:47  <andythenorth> OpenTTD is not usually a cause of system-wide performance issues, or hard crashes
13:40:49  <andythenorth> unlike Chrome :P
13:42:56  <Eddi|zuHause> why, youtube, if i watched videos ending with #1, #2, #3 and #4, is the next suggestion #8, and #5 is nowhere to be found?
13:43:14  <andythenorth> DMCA
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13:58:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
14:01:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, #5 exists, but it's not listed as a related/suggested video
14:13:59  <andythenorth> I added videos for 1.9.1 and 1.9.3
14:14:14  <andythenorth> some results differ widely
14:15:49  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: youtube gonna tube
14:16:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #51: Codechange: Rewrite setup.py https://git.io/Jea7y
14:19:57  <milek7> mov file
14:20:11  <milek7> for some reason i thought it died 10 years ago
14:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> it did, except with clueless mac users :p
14:22:28  <Eddi|zuHause> any sane person uses mkv nowadays. and then there's the fragile mp4 which will die whenever the end of the file gets cut off
14:22:43  <Eddi|zuHause> with 0 chance of recovery
14:22:54  <andythenorth> I used to be able to export from quicktime to many formats
14:22:58  <andythenorth> but Apple nerfed that
14:23:02  <andythenorth> and VLC crashes a lot
14:23:18  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you record a video for 16 hours, and at 15h59 your hdd runs full, you can throw everything away
14:23:45  <andythenorth> it's funny, the production advantage of macs used to lie in the incredibly seamless support for things like video
14:23:49  <andythenorth> with vast flexibility
14:23:55  <andythenorth> and a complete unix and shell
14:24:05  <andythenorth> but they've hit most of that with a nerfbat
14:24:23  <andythenorth> in favour of coffee shop poseurs allegedly
14:24:41  <andythenorth> anyway, the performance videos show nothing useful
14:24:46  <andythenorth> they're highly variable
14:24:54  <andythenorth> and it's very sensitive to which map tiles are showing
14:25:04  <andythenorth> FIRS industries cause it to drop a few fps compared to default
14:25:11  <andythenorth> black tiles seem to aid fps
14:25:34  <andythenorth> I tried 1.10-0 beta, it's getting about twice the fps on ffwd, for no good reason, as I see no relevant code changes
14:26:17  <andythenorth> without more instrumentation, it's basically voodoo :P
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14:28:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i can offer a Tuba, if that helps? :p
14:30:52  <andythenorth> lol
14:31:55  <andythenorth> I did use the Apple tools previously, and the results correlated with the draw issues https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7644#issuecomment-521895427
14:32:06  <andythenorth> could see what else is eating the time there
14:36:56  <andythenorth> this was the bizarre https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9489/mac_fps.mov
14:37:52  <andythenorth> oh I can convert those files with VLC if anyone can name the current format du jour :P
14:37:58  <andythenorth> .webm? :P
14:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you need to decide on 2 components: the container format, and the codec
14:38:48  <Eddi|zuHause> (these are mostly orthogonal choices)
14:38:52  <andythenorth> nothing changed since 2001 then :P
14:39:23  <andythenorth> the default choice is h264 mp4
14:39:32  <andythenorth> we'll ignore the audio codec
14:39:51  <andythenorth> you can all open .mov anyway, VLC does it
14:40:17  <Eddi|zuHause> codec is like x264 or x265, or vp9
14:40:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and container is like mp4, mkv, webm
14:42:24  <milek7> not exactly orthogonal, webm is nerfed mkv and only vp8/vp9/av1
14:42:46  <milek7> (yes vlc plays .mov, i was just surprised that it still exists somewhere as default)
14:49:08  <andythenorth> apple continue to make odd choices
14:52:18  <Eddi|zuHause> apple's "think different" might go into history like the first paragraph of this: http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/russ/russrefr.htm
15:09:03  <andythenorth> "but will Apple survive?"
15:09:07  <andythenorth> perenial question :P
15:21:25  <milek7> Eddi|zuHause: i just wanted to point out that truncated .mp4 won't play cleanly, but surely it should be possible to extract raw stream and remux it (because why not?..)
15:21:50  <milek7> except that i googled and really recovering that is not trivial ;p
15:22:07  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: no, because the mp4 container, all relevant muxing information is at the end of the file
15:22:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #51: Codechange: Rewrite setup.py https://git.io/JeadI
15:22:37  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: without that muxing information, you essentially have only random noise
15:23:25  <milek7> there are tools but they require another valid file produced by same encoder and settings
15:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> milek7: yes, but even then it might still fail
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16:28:12  <Samu> who can #7670?
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18:18:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNS
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18:21:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro approved pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNA
18:30:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 commented on pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaAm
19:30:45  <andythenorth> "nml is lovely this time of year"
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19:37:46  <LordAro> andythenorth: i love the smell of nml in the morning?
19:38:55  <andythenorth> nml is so bracing
19:39:19  <andythenorth> https://www.travelpostersonline.com/ekmps/shops/travelposters/images/skegness-is-so-bracing-lincolnshire.-lner-vintage-travel-poster-by-john-hassall-1926-911-p.jpg
19:39:27  <andythenorth> I should 'adapt' that for nml :P
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19:44:50  <andythenorth> so
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19:59:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Honza1987 commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
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20:47:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
20:47:30  <andythenorth> so not many conclusions ^
20:47:42  <andythenorth> but it is a regression, we can't simply blame Apple :x
20:47:46  <andythenorth> well we can, but it's not true :P
20:49:22  * andythenorth should try JGRPP
20:49:28  <andythenorth> apparently doesn't have any mac issues
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21:17:25  <LordAro> andythenorth: suspicious
21:17:53  <andythenorth> haven't tested yet
21:18:45  <andythenorth> wonder how often JGR rebases master
21:19:06  <andythenorth> 1.8.0 has different performance issues to 1.9.0 and 1.9.3
21:20:46  <LordAro> andythenorth: 1.8 -> 1.9 could be due to different build server
21:20:52  <LordAro> but you build yourself anyway, so...
21:21:41  <andythenorth> I use the official binaries for official releases
21:21:57  <LordAro> hmm
21:22:02  <andythenorth> hmm, so there are many variables
21:22:08  <LordAro> as ever
21:22:14  <andythenorth> instrumentation needed :P
21:22:48  <andythenorth> can we build 1.8.0 on the new farm?
21:23:14  <LordAro> in theory yes, in practice ...with quite a lot of effort
21:34:02  <andythenorth> mystery continues :P
21:36:57  <milek7> there are things unaccounted by framerate gui
21:37:05  <milek7> like rest of GameLoop
21:37:30  <milek7> and QZ_CheckPaletteAnim
21:38:04  <andythenorth> I can instrument using the mac tools
21:38:17  <andythenorth> it's quite....hard to interpret for me
21:39:10  <_dp_> andythenorth, you can also try citymania client
21:39:21  <_dp_> though I'd be very surprised if it's any different from vanila
21:43:37  <andythenorth> trying jgrpp
21:43:43  * andythenorth needs faster compiler
21:43:46  <andythenorth> faster computer
21:43:47  <andythenorth> faster all
21:44:29  <andythenorth> so slow
21:46:25  <andythenorth> jgrpp perf. is subjectively identical to 1.9.3
21:49:30  <LordAro> well that's something
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22:04:30  <andythenorth> they're pretty rough measures
22:04:38  <andythenorth> I don't have a consistent savegame etc
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23:26:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh reopened issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3

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