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Log for #openttd on 30th December 2019:
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00:07:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 opened pull request #131: Make the website better navigable with keyboard https://git.io/JeNxV
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00:59:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #131: Make the website better navigable with keyboard https://git.io/JeNpX
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01:04:18  <andythenorth> bed
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02:11:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] James103 commented on issue #117: There's a couple of layouting/responsiveness issues in the OpenTTD website. https://git.io/Jed55
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08:29:37  <andythenorth> o/
08:30:44  <Pikka> o/
08:39:00  <andythenorth> so many variations on a box :P https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/blob/master/src/graphics/pony/onslaught.png?raw=true
08:44:30  <Pikka> and why not :o or... why? :)
08:45:12  <andythenorth> double arrow maybe? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9569/onslaught-arrow.png
08:45:14  <andythenorth> perhaps not
09:02:29  <peter1138> Well, my trousers still fit.
09:09:17  <Pikka> glad to hear it
09:11:34  <andythenorth> \o/
09:22:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #130: Fix: correct the width of main and footer https://git.io/JeAkR
09:22:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain approved pull request #130: Fix: correct the width of main and footer https://git.io/JeAk0
09:22:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #130: Fix: correct the width of main and footer https://git.io/JeNNS
09:24:14  <LordAro> dammit, TrueBrain
09:24:31  <LordAro> i was about to request changes on that
09:24:42  <TrueBrain> what can I say ..... too slow :P
09:24:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #130: Fix: correct the width of main and footer https://git.io/JeAkz
09:25:11  <TrueBrain> border-box is the only way to make real websites, tbh
09:25:18  <TrueBrain> I was shocked I never added it in the first place :)
09:25:26  <TrueBrain> I don't understand why it isn't the default these days :P
09:27:08  <LordAro> i'm not sure i've come across it before, tbh
09:27:28  <TrueBrain> so you don't make many websites, I assume? :D (sorry, that is bit trolly, but I couldn't resist)
09:28:08  <peter1138> Yes, it should really be default these days, but I guess backwards compatibility trumps it.
09:28:23  <TrueBrain> it is so idiotic: me: div, your width is 800px. div: OKIEDOKIE SIR, I am 800px now. me: div, you have 5px padding. div: OKIEDOKIE SIR, I am 810px in width now. me: WUTH?!
09:28:36  <peter1138> Yes.
09:28:43  <andythenorth> that's why we have maths
09:28:54  <peter1138> So yea, border-box is the correct solution.
09:29:00  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i mean, you're not wrong
09:29:10  <andythenorth> if it wasn't for things like this, there would be mass unemployment
09:29:14  <andythenorth> all those 'css developers'
09:29:14  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: which CSS doesn't support .. so you need SCSS or LESS to fix that :(
09:29:20  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: eh what?
09:29:23  <andythenorth> css has maths now
09:29:29  <peter1138> Are these website changes live?
09:29:29  <andythenorth> I nearly died
09:29:37  <LordAro> applying it to all * ::before & * ::after is a bit weird though? why not just * ?
09:29:38  <TrueBrain> wuth? THEY HAVE MATHS BUT STILL STUPID WIDTH CALCULATION BY DEFAULT?!
09:29:47  <TrueBrain> LordAro: that is CSS for you :)
09:29:48  <andythenorth> https://css-tricks.com/keep-math-in-the-css/
09:29:56  <andythenorth> it EVEN works
09:29:56  <TrueBrain> * doesn't reach all objects
09:29:57  <LordAro> peter1138: www.staging.openttd.org
09:30:02  <peter1138> Thanks.
09:30:07  <TrueBrain> https://css-tricks.com/box-sizing/
09:30:39  <TrueBrain> pseudo-elements are not reached by *
09:31:03  <peter1138> Most of the time you don't notice because you hardly ever use before & after. :)
09:31:33  <LordAro> andythenorth: ah, css variables
09:31:37  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I want to hit "merge" on https://github.com/OpenTTD/website/pull/131; this is okay? :D
09:31:43  <LordAro> the ugliest syntax ever invented
09:31:48  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i approved that one already :p
09:32:20  <andythenorth> LordAro: relative to context, it's beautiful
09:32:22  <TrueBrain> just checking :D
09:32:30  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: calc() is old, but var() I did not know
09:32:38  <TrueBrain> as calc() was useless, as you couldn't reference the border width :P
09:32:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #131: Make the website better navigable with keyboard https://git.io/JeNxV
09:32:47  <peter1138> Yeah, the updates look better in my browser. I have Dark Reader enabled, so the corner changes are a win.
09:32:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #131: Make the website better navigable with keyboard https://git.io/JeAk6
09:33:16  <peter1138> The main banner could do with css corners as well, though.
09:33:34  <TrueBrain> LordAro: there are indeed now a few things out of whack .. like the screenshot on homepage, missing somepadding on the bottom
09:33:48  <LordAro> peter1138: that's next
09:33:54  <peter1138> :D
09:34:20  <peter1138> Great that the green headings actually fit the window now on other pages :p
09:34:23  <TrueBrain> I so want to implement "preview" of PRs ... first migration .. than new stuff ...
09:34:59  <peter1138> Screenshot page looks a bit whacky, but it already did.
09:35:48  <TrueBrain> https://www.openttd.org/screenshots.html <- what happened here?
09:35:52  <TrueBrain> what is this red line now?
09:36:05  <peter1138> Red line?
09:36:09  <andythenorth> red line?
09:36:14  <LordAro> red line?
09:36:18  <andythenorth> Twitch stream or it didn't happen
09:37:07  <LordAro> wait, i see it
09:37:09  <peter1138> If you mean the underline between images, it's because there's line breaks in the HTML between the tags <a> <img /> </a>
09:37:16  <LordAro> separating the pictures
09:37:29  <LordAro> that is a bit weird
09:37:31  <andythenorth> naught
09:37:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #130: Fix: correct the width of main and footer https://git.io/JeAkP
09:38:02  <TrueBrain> peter1138: the underline yes, it is there, AND it is red-ish .. looks freakinglish weird :P
09:38:30  <andythenorth> I see it
09:39:22  <andythenorth> ha ha text-align justify :)
09:39:22  <TrueBrain> LordAro: those 3 were the only issues I could find as a result of border-box. So that is not too bad :)
09:39:26  <andythenorth> not seen that for years
09:39:27  <TrueBrain> ... *facepalm*
09:39:37  <TrueBrain> I NEVER WROTE ANY OF THIS CODE IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN ME
09:39:40  <TrueBrain> I am yelly today, damn
09:39:45  <TrueBrain> *goes sit in a corner for a bit*
09:39:58  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: standard rule
09:40:03  <andythenorth> former us were all idiots
09:40:12  <andythenorth> I don't even want to know those people
09:40:24  <peter1138> TrueBrain, issues because of border-box just means it was relying on "wrong" behaviour before ;)
09:40:43  <andythenorth> it's a web page, relying on wrong behaviour is the ruling meta :)
09:40:44  <TrueBrain> and preparation is for weird people ... in 3 days I have to talk to a big group of people why I think kubernetes is a buzz-word ... and I did not prepare anything yet .... I really should do that ....
09:40:57  <TrueBrain> peter1138: I fully agree :D
09:41:02  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: are you using slides?
09:41:06  <TrueBrain> I should
09:41:11  <TrueBrain> I am in a big room
09:41:15  <TrueBrain> with a big presentation thingy behind me
09:41:17  <andythenorth> one short sentence per slide
09:41:20  <andythenorth> talk slowly
09:41:20  <TrueBrain> and I have to bring my laptop
09:41:21  <TrueBrain> so I guess :P
09:41:23  <andythenorth> and sometimes talk fast
09:41:35  <andythenorth> also get some pictures from unsplash.com
09:41:38  <andythenorth> talk achieved
09:42:00  <andythenorth> I have learnt from mistakes
09:42:06  <andythenorth> now I make presentations the day before
09:42:13  <andythenorth> instead of in the room, just before the talk
09:42:13  <TrueBrain> my peers are sitting in the audience ..  I have to put in some effort ...
09:42:42  <andythenorth> anyway the red line is just the text underline on a
09:42:53  <andythenorth> it's kinda orange, but you knew that
09:43:13  <TrueBrain> red is just orange with missing yellow
09:43:15  <TrueBrain> so that is fine
09:43:38  <andythenorth> <a style="text-decoration:none;" href="foo">
09:43:49  <andythenorth> I love inline styles, they're so easy to find :D
09:43:52  <Eddi|zuHause> before the word "orange" was invented, they just called orange red.
09:43:54  <TrueBrain> and if the color was really blue, it just meant my screen was moving away from me, also fine
09:44:10  <andythenorth> I love LESS too
09:44:39  <TrueBrain> although .. I guess I should be a bit worried if my screen was moving away from me ...
09:44:44  <andythenorth> but seriously, you use a thing once and once only for a tiny tweak, and I have to go hunting through multiple less files to find the definition
09:44:45  <TrueBrain> maybe easier to reason that I am moving away from my screen
09:44:50  <TrueBrain> who is to say, which of us is moving ...
09:45:09  <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, you do know that blueshift means it's moving TOWARDS you?
09:45:14  <andythenorth> and then you tell me that our css is better-engineered because we've moved 400 singleton id-based declarations to less files?
09:45:20  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yes .. so if blue looks red to me ...
09:45:20  <andythenorth> oh wait
09:45:24  <TrueBrain> it is redshifted :P
09:45:25  <andythenorth> this is why I don't do the website :P
09:45:35  <andythenorth> it's too much like a day job
09:45:48  <TrueBrain> now I come to think of it: REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY fast in fact ...
09:46:11  <andythenorth> TrueBrain: are these trains coming or going? https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/iron-horse/docs/html/trains.html
09:46:28  <TrueBrain> finally someone who understands, thank you!
09:46:33  <Eddi|zuHause> they did a calculation once how fast you have to move that a red traffic light appears green to you
09:46:36  <TrueBrain> would be fun if depending on the rotation the color of the train would be different
09:46:45  <andythenorth> that is.....possible
09:46:57  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I was just googling for "how fast do you have to travel for blue to look red"
09:47:31  <andythenorth> does it fit in a word?
09:47:36  <andythenorth> train speed has upper limits :P
09:47:38  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: which resulted in your question and answer: 50,000 km/s
09:47:55  <andythenorth> we can do 65k hm/h?
09:47:56  <andythenorth> hmm
09:48:11  <andythenorth> limitation disturbs
09:48:11  <TrueBrain> lucky enough, my screens are redshifted .. so it will never crash into me
09:48:13  <TrueBrain> I am good
09:48:17  <Eddi|zuHause> that's like 0.2c or something?
09:48:26  <TrueBrain> 1/6th, so yeah
09:48:29  <peter1138> Hmm, I need another name for a supplier...
09:48:35  <peter1138> Oh, provider may do.
09:48:37  <TrueBrain> Wendies
09:48:40  <andythenorth> bob?
09:48:48  <TrueBrain> Subway?
09:49:25  <andythenorth> Simon
09:49:36  <andythenorth> hmm
09:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can't know whether something is blue- or redshifted just by the colour. you'd have to know the original colour too (typically by finding known patterns in the spectrum, like a H line)
09:49:51  <andythenorth> did anybody publish my newgrf docs to amazon S3 yet?
09:49:51  <peter1138> Cool, the Consent-o-Matic plugin works nicely ;)
09:50:16  <peter1138> https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/supplier
09:50:22  <peter1138> What the fuck is that
09:50:37  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: does that do away with all the fullscreen overlays that prevent you from using any website?
09:50:52  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: it is all about relative speeds anyway .. if it looks red to me, and blue to you, we are in some serious trouble :P
09:51:04  <andythenorth> websites are over
09:51:06  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, not sure yet, I just saw one pop up and disappear by itself. If you can link one I'll try it :-)
09:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: not for long, though :p
09:51:12  <andythenorth> it's almost like Facebook managed to nerf GDPR
09:51:21  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: well, you are the one who is in shit in this case, so I am fine with that :P
09:51:26  <TrueBrain> <3
09:51:37  <peter1138> There's still websites around that are blocking EU visitors completely.
09:51:41  <andythenorth> yup
09:51:48  <andythenorth> but no cookie banners on Facebook
09:51:53  <andythenorth> or all the FB apps
09:51:58  <TrueBrain> I like those websites: WE ARE DOING SHADY SHIT WITH YOUR DATA SO WE BLOCK YOU ACCESS MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
09:51:59  <andythenorth> walled garden
09:52:01  <andythenorth> AOIL won
09:52:03  <TrueBrain> I love how open they are about that :)
09:52:10  <andythenorth> why do I type AOL as AOIL
09:52:55  <TrueBrain> hmm .. appears my stomach is telling me I should put some food in it
09:52:58  <TrueBrain> I guess I can do that ..
09:52:59  <andythenorth> +1
09:53:05  <andythenorth> it's often small US news websites that block EU
09:53:12  <andythenorth> I think they just looked at GDPR costs and ran away
09:53:47  <andythenorth> but as they're processing my IP address without my permission....
09:53:53  <andythenorth> they're violating GDPR
09:54:37  <andythenorth> algorithmic processing without my consent
09:56:03  * andythenorth back to pixels
10:06:27  <peter1138> Being back in the office is... good for me :/
10:06:39  <peter1138> I've eaten so much shit this weekend.
10:07:17  <peter1138> Like why did I have a giant crumpet at 10pm last night? What purpose did that fulfil?
10:08:23  <andythenorth> fulfillment
10:08:29  <andythenorth> in the moment
10:08:35  <andythenorth> cheese train problem recurs https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9570/cheese-trains-again.png
10:08:45  <andythenorth> all cheese shaped
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10:11:18  <andythenorth> more or less cheese? https://i.ytimg.com/vi/v44OChwMiFY/maxresdefault.jpg
10:11:54  <andythenorth> not cheese? https://img.fotocommunity.com/voith-maxima-30cc-c308ab43-fb17-4bbf-8433-23a572ae68c4.jpg?height=1080
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10:18:19  <peter1138> And there it flashes up again.
10:21:44  <peter1138> Annoyance about CSS. padding: 0 and padding: 1px can fuck up margins.
10:25:02  <andythenorth> oof
10:25:13  <andythenorth> drawing certain trains I have never used in a game
10:25:16  <andythenorth> and probably never will
10:25:22  <andythenorth> not the most inspiring :P
10:25:32  <andythenorth> but set isn't 'complete' without it :(
10:26:15  <peter1138> Who are you making the set for?
10:27:50  <andythenorth> ne
10:27:51  <andythenorth> me
10:28:26  <andythenorth> inspiration will strike, if I stare long enough :D
10:30:14  <peter1138> When Hunger strikes... not enough Shreddies...
10:32:47  <peter1138> Hmm, right padding 0 allows margin collapsing to work... and it does.
10:33:40  <peter1138> But margin collapsing should be between same-level elements, as I understand it.
10:36:43  <andythenorth> https://www.itsnicethat.com/features/british-rail-railfreight-design-roundel-the-new-look-291116
10:36:51  * andythenorth inventing train colours
10:38:35  <peter1138> If you could tell CSS to inherit attributes with a specific selector, instead of only the parent, that would be kinda useful.
10:39:06  <peter1138> But I guess they made templating systems instead.
10:41:59  <LordAro> https://i.imgur.com/zoANOtp.png
10:42:02  * LordAro making some progress
10:42:27  <LordAro> banner image no longer has hardcoded fade to black & rounded corners
10:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause> what are we looking at?
10:42:55  <LordAro> the website
10:43:31  <LordAro> specifically, redoing how the banner images on the front page work
10:43:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember when i last looked at the website
10:44:07  <LordAro> it'd be great if i could get some more images though (800x185)
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11:08:17  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you have 6! :P
11:08:21  <TrueBrain> 1 for every day of the week :)
11:09:01  <Eddi|zuHause> you must have very long weeks if they have 6! days
11:09:45  <LordAro> TrueBrain: only 3 (they're repeated), and they have the corners and fade built into them, which is not what i want :p
11:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be plenty of intro screens to make screenshots from
11:10:56  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I took them from screenshots :P
11:11:36  <LordAro> TrueBrain: bet you can't remember which screenshots ;)
11:12:36  <TrueBrain> ofc not :)
11:12:43  <TrueBrain> 10+ years ago
11:13:55  <LordAro> :p
11:14:13  <LordAro> https://i.imgur.com/WRHtgjJ.png currently trying to convince these things to vertically centre
11:21:25  <andythenorth> css table
11:21:33  <andythenorth> or just equalise margins and cross fingers
11:21:46  <andythenorth> or flexbox, but I am not allowed to use flex, so can't comment
11:22:03  <Samu> [img]https://i.imgur.com/leLEsrC.png why doesn't '250,000 ops' fit there?
11:24:21  <Samu> [img]https://i.imgur.com/8xkJCZx.png it fits with opengfx, but not with original_windows
11:24:34  <Samu> what did i do wrong
11:25:28  <LordAro> andythenorth: it's already a flexbox :p
11:27:01  <LordAro> Samu: text is different sizes
11:28:50  <andythenorth> I thought flexbox really did just work?
11:29:01  <andythenorth> vertical center with css table is fairly reliable
11:29:09  <andythenorth> and flexbox is Even More Modern!
11:31:21  <LordAro> https://i.imgur.com/6RLgAaP.png whyyy
11:31:58  <andythenorth> padding on container?
11:33:04  <Samu> here's the code about sizes https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:variable-script_max_opcodes#diff-5174deab34f3d1f2d52055d766de6325R625
11:33:11  <Samu> what is wrong there?
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11:33:39  <LordAro> andythenorth: none that i've set - it is a float:right though, which i'd bet is confusing things
11:33:53  <andythenorth> probably not needed with flex?
11:34:08  * andythenorth has never written a single word of flexbox :P
11:34:12  <andythenorth> awaiting the day
11:34:25  <andythenorth> browser support policy says 'no'
11:35:29  <LordAro> andythenorth: "possible"
11:35:32  <LordAro> andythenorth: i'm so sorry
11:35:40  <LordAro> which one are you having to support? IE9?
11:35:57  <andythenorth> and 10-11 https://caniuse.com/#feat=flexbox
11:36:12  <andythenorth> we don't have engineering time to spend on "IE doesn't behave as expected"
11:36:21  <andythenorth> we're spending all that on "Chrome broke the nightly again"
11:36:26  <andythenorth> and "Firefox doesn't really work"
11:36:44  <LordAro> much sadness
11:36:52  <andythenorth> cunning Google strategy: ship a buggy browser, thereby sapping resources that could be spent on IE
11:40:12  <LordAro> https://i.imgur.com/523uZvy.png this... is not better
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11:50:05  <andythenorth> it's lovely
11:50:48  <LordAro> https://i.imgur.com/upuiRQ2.png this... is better
11:54:46  <Flygon> LordAro: Is this the "This picture brings joy; this picture does NOT bring joy" meme? :P
11:58:27  <andythenorth> result
12:10:24  <andythenorth> inspiration strikes :P
12:10:42  <andythenorth> if I copy and paste enough bits of sprites around
12:10:45  <andythenorth> I get a new train :P
12:11:11  <Pikka> o/
12:11:13  <Flygon> Oh no, this is sounding like classic Age of Empires II mods. :D
12:11:30  <Flygon> Copypasta bits and bobs from I, II, and various protos. And bam, new Unit. :D
12:14:35  <andythenorth> paste train 106 onto 107 https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9571/copypasta.png
12:14:49  <andythenorth> boom! train 108 is the improved version of 107!
12:15:14  <andythenorth> seems to be realistic eh
12:15:14  <andythenorth> https://d2e1tbtdbinpro.cloudfront.net/media/articles/pop/zz/11568.jpg
12:16:26  <Pikka> hmm!
12:16:34  <Samu> who made framerate_gui.cpp? this line can't be right https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/framerate_gui.cpp#L569
12:17:14  <andythenorth> hmmm! Pikka ?
12:17:19  <andythenorth> :D
12:17:40  <Samu> actually, 563 to 575, it's treating allocatted memory as milliseconds
12:18:14  <Pikka> hmm it's all about the greebles ;)
12:18:22  <Pikka> and livery
12:18:29  <Pikka> more yellow makes it go faster
12:19:24  <andythenorth> 96mph!
12:19:31  <andythenorth> all the intermodal speeds
12:19:58  <andythenorth> might make it more swooshy
12:21:45  <Pikka> are you allowed to end a speed in 6?
12:22:05  <Pikka> I mean I know some people use km/h but they're wrong
12:22:15  <andythenorth> unknown :)
12:22:16  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9572/swoosh.png
12:22:20  <andythenorth> that's a pax one
12:22:24  <andythenorth> might be a bit too pointy
12:22:46  <andythenorth> fix the roof, probably fine? :P
12:22:48  <Pikka> cheesy
12:23:03  <andythenorth> everything is edam
12:23:26  <Pikka> 84 and 85 look tall with the cc roof
12:23:36  <Pikka> they look taller than the passenger cars
12:24:00  <andythenorth> it's the yellow stuff
12:24:02  <andythenorth> the cheese
12:24:32  <andythenorth> it's not a great sprite eh :D
12:27:22  <Pikka> it always surprises me drawing those side views how low the middle of the roof should really be
12:27:32  <Pikka> and how wide things like noses need to be to look right
12:27:41  * Pikka just drew the side view for the 37 ;)
12:28:06  <Samu> what is SetDParam(1, 2) supposed to be doing there?
12:28:47  <Samu> at line 568 framerate_gui.cpp
12:29:59  <Samu> STR_FRAMERATE_MS_GOOD                                           :{LTBLUE}{DECIMAL} ms
12:29:59  <peter1138> Sets parameter 1 to the value 2.
12:30:10  <Samu> is it for DECIMAL?
12:30:20  <peter1138> Decimal places, I'd guess?
12:30:27  <Samu> I don't know !
12:31:17  <peter1138> Obviously, otherwise you wouldn't've asked.
12:31:35  <Samu> seems to be doing nothing
12:31:40  <Samu> but im unsure
12:31:47  <peter1138> I don't know either, so I took a guess. If I wanted to know further, I'd either check the documentation or git log, or just dive in and work it out.
12:32:17  <Samu> gonna try a 3
12:32:56  <andythenorth> should I give engines livery options? o_O
12:33:16  <andythenorth> OH MY GOD NO
12:33:21  <andythenorth> ok
12:33:26  <andythenorth> thanks for the advice
12:35:25  <Samu> just tested, it's for decimal spacing
12:35:30  <Samu> places
12:35:31  <Pikka> "options", no andythenorth
12:36:08  <andythenorth> it's hard enough making them look diferent already :D
12:36:19  <peter1138> What a guess!
12:36:37  <Pikka> well that's it... if you have a few locos, making them look different over time is fun
12:36:54  <Pikka> if you need lots of locos in the set, just make each visual variant a new loco :D
12:39:08  <andythenorth> buy menu groups anyone? o_O
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12:53:22  <andythenorth> swoosh failed https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9573/freight-swoosh-2.png
12:54:03  <Flygon> I'm getting huge XPT vibes from 106.
12:54:22  <Flygon> This whole thing screams CountryLink.
12:54:34  <peter1138> Remember when vehicle sound effects were all the rage?
12:54:41  <peter1138> I miss that.
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12:55:15  <peter1138> I'm guessing it was hard work to do for "very little benefit". But the extra ambience!
12:55:51  <Wolf01> andythenorth: so, I don't have any device compatible with lego PU, and I don't plan to get one just for it... so liebherr goes in a box and right in the storage area
12:56:07  <andythenorth> Wolf01: power functions :P
12:56:15  <andythenorth> sbrick
12:56:22  <Wolf01> Yeah, I was thinking about a conversion
13:05:05  <peter1138> Oh gosh, it's past my 1pm salad time. So... 1:05pm salad time it is!
13:05:25  <andythenorth> nice https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9573/freight-swoosh-2.png
13:05:39  <andythenorth> oh I need a new keyboard :x
13:05:43  <andythenorth> paste fails
13:05:48  <andythenorth> https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/ehe8le/shinobu_port/
13:18:00  <andythenorth> hurrah https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9575/progression-exclamation-mark.png
13:18:09  <andythenorth> Pikka: copy paste ftw :D
13:18:40  <Pikka> excellent :)
13:19:21  <Samu> why not use SetDParamMaxDigits(0, 6);
13:19:27  <Samu> seems to be what I needed
13:23:18  <andythenorth> Pikka: you doing an A4?
13:24:14  <Pikka> was going to, but decided it's been done. ;)
13:24:43  <andythenorth> I have this but not streamlined https://www.p2steam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Ch6-4b-1024x386.jpg
13:25:11  <andythenorth> I tried smoke deflectors, but failed to make them work https://live.staticflickr.com/8243/8662790137_e91f76f47c_b.jpg
13:26:06  <Pikka> going Light Pacific here
13:26:31  <andythenorth> I have to draw a Jubilee or something
13:26:37  <andythenorth> then maybe I'll streamline the p2
13:26:47  <andythenorth> didn't fancy the curves much tbh :P
13:26:47  <Pikka> I've got UKRS down to 25 locos, if I don't put a gronk in.
13:26:57  <andythenorth> gronk seems inevitable
13:27:01  <andythenorth> I had to add one :|
13:27:05  <Pikka> well
13:27:12  <Pikka> I'm planning the 14
13:27:15  <Pikka> that might be gronk enough
13:27:31  <andythenorth> I've never used the gronk
13:27:35  <andythenorth> it's just for looks :P
13:28:32  <Pikka> well
13:28:37  <Pikka> I might end up drawing one for industries
13:28:50  <Pikka> then I guess I can include it as a loco with my industry set ;)
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13:40:39  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9576/revolutionary-boom.png
13:41:41  <andythenorth> but when do I start NARS Horse? :P
13:42:11  <Pikka> immediately? :)
13:43:07  <andythenorth> 10% of sprites incomplete for UK Super Realism Horse
13:43:22  <andythenorth> it was a productive week, I have gone from 100% to 90% :D
13:45:27  <andythenorth> too similar?
13:45:41  <andythenorth> nvm, talking to myself
13:47:35  <Pikka> these things happen
13:48:34  <Samu> I wish I could git push --force inside visual studio
13:48:38  <Pikka> supercomplete or superrealism is overrated though. more content isn't more gameplay etc.
13:55:47  <andythenorth> NARS Horse!
13:55:54  <andythenorth> or a break from trains :D
13:56:34  <Pikka> how's soapy sam?
13:57:17  <Samu> oh, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commits?author=SamuXarick this is a nice link
13:58:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro opened pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAYP
13:59:12  <LordAro> tada
14:00:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAY1
14:02:44  <andythenorth> can we fit a 'stop all replacements' button into the auto-replace gui?
14:03:12  <andythenorth> or does everyone else just leave the old replace rules running?
14:03:13  <andythenorth> :D
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14:20:04  <TrueBrain> LordAro: those with low contrast I removed once .. that is why there were only 3 :P
14:20:07  <TrueBrain> we started with 7 :D
14:20:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #130: Fix: correct the width of main and footer https://git.io/JeAOI
14:21:04  <LordAro> TrueBrain: makes sense :)
14:21:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAOt
14:22:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #130: Fix: correct the width of main and footer https://git.io/JeAOq
14:22:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAOY
14:23:56  <TrueBrain> LordAro: mostly "1" seems to be an issue. So possibly just pick a random other one? :D
14:24:46  <LordAro> TrueBrain: yeah, could do
14:25:00  <LordAro> does seem a shame to exclude snowy environments though
14:25:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAOs
14:25:41  <TrueBrain> make it darker :P
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14:26:42  <andythenorth> got a layer over the image?
14:26:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAOc
14:27:10  * andythenorth assumes the gradient darkens the bg image in css
14:27:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAOl
14:27:50  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I still think adding 'venv' is a bad idea. The README code is more as example .. more and more people are switching to non-venv solutions
14:28:11  <LordAro> andythenorth: aye
14:28:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAOg
14:30:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAOw
14:32:45  <TrueBrain> LordAro: but in all fairness, it is in the README .. did not expect that still being the case :P
14:34:05  <andythenorth> oh I just saw an actual bug in OpenTTD
14:34:10  <andythenorth> path reservations not clearing
14:34:18  <andythenorth> probably not reproducible
14:36:35  <Samu> is it Upon 'transfering' cargo or Upon 'transferring' cargo
14:36:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAOH
14:36:41  <Samu> think i found a typo
14:37:58  <Samu> maybe not
14:38:00  <Samu> nvm
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15:13:03  <Samu> looking at my old patches, I got a Scaled Subsidies one
15:13:25  <Samu> scales the number of subsidies and the distance of subsidy by map size
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15:15:17  <Samu> 4096x4096 distances were absurdly impossible to do in a year, except by air, i guess that's what made this patch a no go
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15:18:14  <nielsm> 4096 was a mistake
15:18:31  <FLHerne> Yeah
15:26:53  <peter1138> 2048 as well.
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15:30:21  <Samu> road_bridges_store_town_indexes_in_map_array
15:31:20  <Samu> https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/commit/a5b647f86c0be03ee7b64a56315bb375c736cadb
15:31:26  <Samu> I suppose you no longer want this
15:31:36  <Samu> can I delete it?
15:31:38  <nielsm> that was made redundant yes
15:33:48  <Samu> so much work for nothing :)
15:34:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAsP
15:42:53  <Samu> I feel bad about deleting this... :(
15:44:37  <nielsm> why I can't work right now https://0x0.st/zkNS.webm
15:45:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAGm
15:48:21  <Samu> holy mother of conflicts
15:48:32  <Samu> it's conflicting with not road types
15:48:40  <Samu> yeah, cancel rebase
15:49:51  <Samu> bridge_map.h so conflictuous
15:50:02  <Samu> cancelled
16:02:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAYP
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16:06:52  <glx> nielsm: cute
16:25:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 opened pull request #133: Padding corrections as consequences of #130 https://git.io/JeAZ3
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16:38:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #133: Padding corrections as consequences of #130 https://git.io/JeAZa
16:38:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro merged pull request #133: Padding corrections as consequences of #130 https://git.io/JeAZ3
17:05:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] auge8472 commented on pull request #133: Padding corrections as consequences of #130 https://git.io/JeAnW
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17:16:00  <Samu> prevent-town-growth-from-blocking-ships
17:16:04  <Samu> remember that?
17:17:07  <nielsm> that was a terrible idea
17:18:22  <Samu> I still don't feel that way
17:19:35  <Samu> i just discovered I had a link to the forum in the commit message, maybe that's why it was rejected?
17:20:24  <Samu> oh well nvm
17:27:14  <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6931#issuecomment-469012054 oh it wasn't the commit message
17:34:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7883: Fix: Ensure a minimum gap of water upon generating terrain with original generator https://git.io/JeNQn
17:39:43  <Samu> oops, i was just rebasing
17:39:57  <Samu> all my stuff to current day
17:46:14  <Samu> the controversial 1.10 change https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7293
17:46:30  <Samu> closed in favour of another that created a controversy
17:46:42  <Samu> sad day
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18:06:35  <Samu> most of my fixes is changing FOR_ALL stuff
18:06:47  <Samu> and CompanyByte being CompanyID now
18:06:53  <Samu> rebases*
18:10:08  <Samu> i'm on my favourite branch https://github.com/SamuXarick/OpenTTD/commits/max_no_competitors-%3D-15-v33-r27931.patch
18:11:00  <Samu> minor conflicts, ez fixs for how big it is
18:19:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save. https://git.io/fhHI1
18:45:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JeAlY
18:45:53  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:56:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAlc
18:56:42  <TrueBrain> sorry LordAro, couldn't resist :)
18:57:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAlB
18:58:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAlR
19:14:02  <nielsm> huh what happened to that W https://0x0.st/zkqg.png
19:16:42  <LordAro> TrueBrain: noo
19:17:43  <LordAro> TrueBrain: abc for CSS?
19:18:15  <TrueBrain> put the entries on alphabet, yes
19:18:17  <TrueBrain> like all the others are :)
19:18:48  <LordAro> did not realise that was a thing
19:18:59  <LordAro> generally go with something resembling "logical" order
19:19:17  <TrueBrain> that is the issue .. the airquotes :)
19:19:25  <TrueBrain> nobody could agree on any, ever (not only in OpenTTD :P)
19:19:30  <TrueBrain> so .. abc is the next best thing :)
19:19:35  <TrueBrain> that is someone everyone can apply :P
19:19:41  <LordAro> :)
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19:52:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAYP
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19:57:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro updated pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeAYP
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20:00:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #132: Change: Rework banner image use more modern CSS, and replace all images https://git.io/JeA85
20:00:45  <glx> <nielsm> huh what happened to that W https://0x0.st/zkqg.png <-- weird
20:03:05  <nielsm> and yes it kept misrendering the same way in subsequent newspapers
20:03:43  <glx> aren't letter renders cached at some point ?
20:04:27  <nielsm> I think they're made into sprites yes
20:05:22  <nielsm> (so the freetype and win32 font renderers actually just transform a string into a sequence of sprite ids, which may happen to be freshly created sprites from some font data)
20:05:57  <glx> then sprites can be blitted
20:07:33  <nielsm> misrenders even after a game restart
20:07:39  <glx> broken font for a given size maybe
20:07:50  <glx> or it's our handling
20:08:17  <nielsm> it's Georgia 18 at x2 scale
20:16:11  <Samu> waterways consutrction button doesn't play a *beep* sound
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20:21:04  <Samu> [img]https://i.imgur.com/jg8w0vF.png - look at distance flown in aircraft details, wouldn't this be cool to have in the game?
20:26:19  <glx> nielsm: happens for me too
20:27:13  <glx> x4 is worse :)
20:29:03  <nielsm> I wonder what goes wrong, maybe something is mis-measured and a wrong size sprite is made
20:29:32  <nielsm> or something wrong with the stride of the image
20:29:40  <glx> normal font seems to have issue in x4 for me too (I use arial unicode ms)
20:35:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7880:   Fix: Remove some redundant steps during world generation https://git.io/JeA4K
20:36:04  <Samu> damn me
20:36:07  <Samu> :(
20:36:28  <Samu> my testing methodology has failed me
20:38:19  <Samu> i dont understand what I did wrong the other time
20:38:35  <Samu> because it was't detecting any slope fix
20:39:04  <Samu> my detection code probably sucked
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20:46:28  <Samu> 		slopes_fixed	4154	unsigned int
20:46:38  <Samu> funny... now it detected fixes
20:46:51  <Samu> what have i done wrong then?
20:48:10  <nielsm> tried to solve a problem that requires mathematical reasoning by using empirical testing?
20:49:20  <nielsm> it's very difficult to set up an empirical test to prove that something does not exist, since you need to be literally exhaustive
20:49:27  <nielsm> test every possible combination
20:50:13  <nielsm> and then you're back into making proper proofs anyway (or the problem is simple enough to enumerate all combinations in reasonable time)
20:51:17  <Samu> I ran this through terragenesis and no fix was made
20:51:28  <Samu> perhaps I confused Original with Terragenesis
20:51:51  <nielsm> you're still talking about empirical testing, not formal proving techniques
20:52:38  <Samu> with a map of size 4096x4096 no slopes were fixed with terragenesis
20:52:59  <Samu> but ok
20:53:05  <Samu> empirical testing
20:55:28  <Samu> [img]https://i.imgur.com/UpkkCEn.png my methodology
20:55:51  <Samu> with a breakpoint at slopes_fixed = slopes_fixed
20:56:54  <Samu> let me google empirical testing
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20:57:37  <nielsm> it means "looking at random examples of stuff and see if it matches a hypothesis"
20:59:22  <nielsm> "I walked around my backyard all day and never once did I see an elephant. Hence, elephants do not exist."
21:04:14  <nielsm> (you can look at all the backyards in europe and probably won't find an elephant, but go to india and your hypothesis of them not existing would quickly be disproven)
21:07:04  <Samu> it was terragenesis, not original, i confused them two
21:07:20  <Samu> terragenesis, so far, has never fixed anything
21:07:31  <Samu> original, has always fixed slopes
21:07:37  <Samu> so, my mistake was that
21:07:50  <Samu> but still...
21:07:59  <Samu> it's an empirical testing
21:19:29  <Samu> this means, one less step for terragenesis, instead
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21:36:07  <Samu> aha
21:36:12  <Samu> tgp.cpp has a HeightMapSmoothSlopes
21:36:27  <Samu> which is like a FixSlopes, but for terragenesis only
21:38:08  <Samu> it Smooths Slopes a bit too often though :p
21:40:10  <Samu> ah, i see, it's needed
21:40:35  <Samu> dont feel like investigating too much into tgp.cpp
21:40:50  <Samu> maybe I should, but all points to no need to run FixSlopes for tgp
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21:45:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7880:   Fix: Remove some redundant steps during world generation https://git.io/JeNLr
21:48:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7880:   Fix: Remove some redundant steps during world generation https://git.io/JeARO
21:57:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7880:   Fix: Remove some redundant steps during world generation https://git.io/JeARz
22:19:50  <Samu> well in debug mode it was about 2.5 seconds
22:20:00  <Samu> but debug mode is always slow
22:21:41  * andythenorth must pixles
22:21:48  <andythenorth> or tpying
22:21:56  <andythenorth> was it lunch yet?
22:22:22  * peter1138 must pixies
22:22:46  <peter1138> Or, perhaps, go to sleep?
22:31:12  <andythenorth> possibly
22:43:24  <Samu> I'm too scared to give the answer to this: How much of a time improvement does this have on world generation (especially on larger maps)?
22:48:34  <Samu> what was the function that would allow me to see how long code takes to run?
22:49:24  <nielsm> tic/toc from some debug header?
22:49:42  <Samu> ok, tic toc
22:52:39  <Samu> TICC/TOCC is better
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23:20:52  <Samu> dbg: [misc] [FixSlopes] 2191806 us [avg: 2191806.0 us]
23:20:52  <Samu> dbg: [misc] [ConvertGroundTilesIntoWaterTiles] 6951231 us [avg: 6951231.0 us]
23:21:24  <Samu> in debug build
23:22:12  <Samu> trying a release build
23:26:04  <Samu> dbg: [misc] [FixSlopes] 161798 us [avg: 161798.0 us]
23:26:04  <Samu> dbg: [misc] [ConvertGroundTilesIntoWaterTiles] 457768 us [avg: 457768.0 us]
23:26:08  <Samu> in release build
23:26:31  <Samu> tested on generating a 4096x4096 original landscaper
23:26:49  <Samu> what a massive difference debug to release makes
23:28:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7880: Fix: Remove some redundant steps during world generation https://git.io/JeAuf
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23:31:48  <Samu> so... it's almost negligible, kind of expected :(
23:32:30  <Samu> debug mode makes me feel like I'm doing massive improvements, turn outs it's meh
23:32:47  <LordAro> Samu: a lesson most learn early on is that it's important to profile *first*, then work out if you can speed anything up
23:33:10  <LordAro> if you're optimising something that doesn't take very long to execute, there's a good chance you're wasting your time
23:33:18  <LordAro> "premature optimisation is the root of all evil"
23:35:02  <Samu> im not sure what that means... anyway gotta go sleep, take care
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23:35:44  <LordAro> surprise of the century
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23:43:18  <andythenorth> all I do with pixels is move them around
23:43:24  <andythenorth> is that how programming works? :)
23:43:31  <andythenorth> cut-paste-move
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23:57:16  * andythenorth bed-sleep-dream

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