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00:18:07 *** Progman has quit IRC 00:19:29 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:23:30 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 00:41:09 *** lastmikoi_ has joined #openttd 00:41:09 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 00:41:14 *** lastmikoi_ is now known as lastmikoi 02:03:26 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 02:03:49 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 02:38:02 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 03:17:11 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:20:31 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:20:58 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 03:25:37 *** tokai has joined #openttd 03:25:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 03:32:31 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 03:33:15 *** glx has quit IRC 03:33:25 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 03:45:12 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 03:46:43 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 04:20:46 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 04:21:08 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:25:45 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 04:52:51 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 04:52:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 04:59:52 *** tokai has quit IRC 05:04:05 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:08:51 *** lastmikoi_ has joined #openttd 05:09:52 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 05:09:52 *** lastmikoi_ is now known as lastmikoi 06:19:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on issue #7830: Load font from openttd config file directory, not from working directory. https://git.io/JewMG 07:17:19 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:18:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on issue #7814: More track for the same cost https://git.io/JezxN 07:23:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:56:35 *** cHawk_ has quit IRC 08:09:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:09:25 <andythenorth> bed happened 08:09:29 <andythenorth> now over 08:13:24 <Pikka> so over 08:13:35 <Pikka> it's been done 08:16:13 <andythenorth> did you finish Horse for me? 08:19:18 <andythenorth> just 46 more trains to draw :P 08:32:22 <Pikka> ez 08:34:13 <andythenorth> how many more for UKRS 99? 08:38:46 <Pikka> ummm... 4 or 5 I think. 08:39:21 <Pikka> pannier, q1, pacific, 14 and 91 08:39:36 <andythenorth> race you? :) 08:39:38 <Pikka> and I'm thinking about replacing the 60 with an EMD just to break up the Brush love 08:39:53 <Pikka> if you like. ;) I'm aiming for April. 08:40:04 <andythenorth> :) 08:40:17 <andythenorth> @calc 46/2 08:40:18 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 23 08:40:42 <andythenorth> avg was 2 per day for Iron Horse 2 08:40:48 <andythenorth> might be done by Feb :P 08:42:33 <Pikka> o/ 08:49:07 <andythenorth> hurrah 08:49:08 <andythenorth> https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/iron-horse/docs/html/tech_tree_table_red.html 08:49:20 <andythenorth> I made the tech tree show 1cc or 2cc optionally 08:49:39 <andythenorth> the 1CC is easier to read, but doesn't show the variations 09:07:18 <peter1138> Playing on some Reddit OpenTTD server. 09:07:26 <andythenorth> o_O 09:07:34 * andythenorth mistakes were made https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7042/oops.png 09:07:35 <peter1138> No cargodist :( 09:07:59 <peter1138> Global warming, eh? 09:10:01 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 09:13:56 <andythenorth> reddit servers are reporting down https://ttdredd.it/detail?srv=1 09:13:58 <andythenorth> oof 09:14:21 <andythenorth> can't be true 09:16:09 <andythenorth> new factory! 09:18:03 <andythenorth> oof industries are quite closey 09:20:47 * andythenorth breakfast? 09:25:12 <peter1138> Oh, I just had to explain DMU, heh. 09:25:17 <peter1138> Maybe I should just keep quiet. 09:28:02 <andythenorth> I stopped spectating :) 09:37:25 <FLHerne> peter1138: Odd, I think reddit S1 had Cargodist for pax/mail last time I did that 09:37:51 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:39:11 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:40:43 <andythenorth> does the industry spam get annoying? 09:41:33 <andythenorth> oh I got kicked 09:43:17 *** tokai has joined #openttd 09:43:17 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 09:43:31 <andythenorth> wow these train stats aren't even realistic 09:43:48 <andythenorth> A4 should be 126mph and 2000hp 09:44:28 * andythenorth quits the server, the industry message spam is insane 09:44:37 <andythenorth> can't be arsed to change my news setting :D 09:46:41 <peter1138> Hmm? 09:47:17 <nielsm> probably smooth economy making industries change production all the time 09:47:21 <nielsm> causing massive news spam 09:49:00 <peter1138> I moved on to Heretic and then iRacing. Gaming loyalty... 09:49:47 <andythenorth> the reddit map is 1024x2048 and terrain looks ok 09:49:56 * andythenorth wonders if TGP is tuned for large map sizes 09:50:07 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 09:50:28 <nielsm> it probably is 09:50:36 <peter1138> It's a crap terrain. 09:51:02 <andythenorth> you don't like the impassable mountains + everything else is flat? 09:51:30 <peter1138> Not enough ocean 09:52:07 *** tokai has quit IRC 09:56:55 <nielsm> map generator idea: scripted, the script returns a bunch of control points (either in a fixed grid, or freely placed) with each point setting height and something about landscape type 09:57:27 <nielsm> and it also returns arrays of town positions and industry positions 09:57:52 <andythenorth> mumble mumble rivers 09:58:15 <nielsm> yeah... they probably also need to be specified in some way 09:58:25 <andythenorth> and then between control points, what? A transform per tile? Or random? 10:00:40 <nielsm> some general code fills in with interpolation 10:00:56 <nielsm> one of the parameters I imagine for control points is rough/smooth 10:02:36 <nielsm> transport fever 2 has three distinct landscape generators, one for temperate, one for desert, and one for tropical islands 10:03:01 <nielsm> the first two are based around running a river through the map, placing some lakes, and some hills and mountains 10:06:45 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:08:12 <nielsm> ofc it also has much more freedom in what kind of maps it can make 10:08:15 <nielsm> like https://0x0.st/zREd.jpg 10:08:15 <Samu> hi 10:09:04 <andythenorth> "river runs through it" 10:10:09 <nielsm> the big limitation of (o)ttd terrain always remains the need to be smooth 10:12:04 * andythenorth wonders 10:12:26 <andythenorth> perlin noise is the default approach to procedural terrain 10:12:43 <andythenorth> but I think it sucks 10:13:23 <andythenorth> it's used to make freeform mesh landscapes seem more organic, fine 10:13:36 <nielsm> for a game the terrain needs to be interesting 10:13:38 <andythenorth> but we don't have a freeform mesh, we have regular polygons 10:14:01 <nielsm> interesting to play on, that is 10:14:03 <andythenorth> yes 10:14:07 <andythenorth> which I think needs designed 10:14:17 <andythenorth> throwing perlin noise or gaussian or whatever at the slopes 10:14:17 <andythenorth> meh 10:14:52 <andythenorth> so scripting 'features'? o_O 10:15:07 <andythenorth> 'cone volcano island' 10:15:09 <andythenorth> 'big bay' 10:15:18 <andythenorth> 'canyon system' 10:15:21 <nielsm> could we change the savegame format and spend one or more of the high bits in the heightmap array to mean "tile is flat"? 10:15:29 <andythenorth> then interpolate between the feautures :P 10:15:35 <nielsm> to get some kind of natural ridge-like stuff 10:15:56 <andythenorth> we're pretty good at getting large bland plateaus currently :P 10:16:19 <peter1138> You can perform functions on top of perlin to make ridges 10:17:06 <nielsm> problem is that ottd can not represent ridges :) 10:18:00 <peter1138> True but even smoothed out ridges are better than just random lumpy landmasses. 10:18:02 <nielsm> "this tile has natural foundations" kind of, is what I mean 10:18:19 <andythenorth> so cliffs 10:18:23 <nielsm> yes 10:19:59 <Wolf01> First we need map rotation, or you won't see anything you build behind a ridge 10:20:19 <peter1138> Transparent rendering ;) 10:20:32 <andythenorth> can we see behind foundations? 10:20:35 * andythenorth tests 10:20:45 <Wolf01> That could be an option 10:21:07 <LordAro> or fake cliffs that are just unpassable 10:21:12 <andythenorth> can see behind foundations except for – angle 10:21:49 <nielsm> scenario editor really needs some more paintbrush like terrain tools 10:21:59 <Wolf01> That too 10:22:04 <Wolf01> I have a patch 10:22:31 <Wolf01> Feel free to get it from my repo 10:27:35 <nielsm> also I want stuff like this: https://0x0.st/zR60.jpg 10:27:40 <nielsm> (that's "rivers") 10:28:09 <Wolf01> Only if they can flood lower areas 10:28:10 <nielsm> (hand placed on a modified tgp) 10:30:03 <nielsm> I want the terrain generator to fill local low points with lakes, like this: https://0x0.st/zR6R.jpg 10:30:05 <andythenorth> where's eddi's river patch 10:31:00 <andythenorth> got stalebotted https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7213 10:32:09 <nielsm> qqwhttps://0x0.st/zRI-.jpg 10:32:12 <nielsm> wow 10:32:14 <andythenorth> nielsm: can we divide the map into sectors, and take a local water table height? 10:32:15 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/zRI-.jpg 10:32:33 <andythenorth> o_O 10:33:25 <nielsm> simulate water filling up a local low in the point by raising the base terrain and putting water on top 10:33:30 <Eddi|zuHause> there need to be halftile rivers on the lower end of a diagonal slope 10:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and rivers flowing down diagonal slopes 10:33:56 <nielsm> also, make a flag on river tiles to make them indestructible, or have a fake depth that needs to be filled with dirt (which is stupidly expensive) to remove it 10:34:01 <nielsm> that too 10:34:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that would simplify river generation by a ton 10:34:27 <LordAro> nielsm: it's not possible to have actual water tiles there, rather than river tiles, is it? 10:34:43 <nielsm> LordAro, river tiles are just water tiles with height > 0 afaik 10:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> river tiles are water tiles that do not flood 10:35:36 <andythenorth> river removal remains 'interesting' 10:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> they don't have to have height > 0 10:35:46 <andythenorth> I often just bulldoze rivers for game reasons 10:36:18 <LordAro> andythenorth: pretty sure they show by unmovable 10:36:32 <LordAro> should* 10:36:33 <nielsm> lots of free bits on water tiles too 10:36:44 <nielsm> could easily find room to store "depth" 10:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: that's too restrictive, imho you should be able to reroute rivers through canals 10:37:33 <nielsm> ideally river springs should have a constant flow, if you fill/dam a river somewhere, it will flow around 10:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> which would mean we need to mark sources and drains, and check that all sources are connected to a drain 10:37:53 <nielsm> and then we're into dwarf fortress territory 10:38:20 <andythenorth> there's a patch for that? 10:38:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think flooding is needed, just making the river indestructible if there is no bypass 10:39:19 <andythenorth> this nose shape is a right pisser to draw in pixels https://railphotoprints.uk/img/s/v-10/p2819145335-3.jpg 10:39:32 <andythenorth> also, 1 tile locks 10:39:38 <andythenorth> or placeable weir / rapids 10:39:43 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause, that would mean running a potentially expensive pathfinder when you destroy river tiles 10:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it should be ok to run expensive operations on user interaction 10:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and it can probably be simplified if you store the river flow direction 10:41:10 <nielsm> hmm yes, river tiles could store their distance from the main flow 10:41:42 <andythenorth> rivers that carve landscape :P 10:41:51 <nielsm> perhaps just up to 6 or 14, capped at 7 or 15 if they are not part of a flow 10:41:54 <andythenorth> rivers that aren't 1 tile wide forever 10:41:57 <Samu> 8>Running ai/regression/tst_regression... passed! 10:42:00 <Samu> success 10:42:36 <Samu> and that's one more setting :o 10:43:21 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:43:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 10:44:51 <nielsm> yeah stuff like this https://0x0.st/zRIx.jpg 10:45:35 <nielsm> except also with halftile pieces 10:46:00 <andythenorth> I started drawing those once 10:46:11 <andythenorth> but then I got into one of those silly irc arguments and rage quit 10:46:16 <andythenorth> deleted the repo :( 10:46:19 <andythenorth> silly andythenorth 10:46:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, halftile pieces are the highest priority 10:46:34 <LordAro> the pathfinder operation for re-rivering doesn't need to run to completion, just needs to find the next downslope 10:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> basically every attempt at rivers i had was ultimately thwarted by the lack of those 10:46:45 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8395/diagonal.png 10:46:46 <LordAro> though that still wouldn't work for extremely flat maps, i guess 10:46:52 <andythenorth> stupid rivers https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8396/rivers_diagonal.png 10:46:58 <LordAro> could just limit it to 20 tiles distance or something 10:47:50 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 10:47:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 10:48:08 <andythenorth> oh there's a river tiles repo eh https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/water-features/repository/revisions 10:48:35 <andythenorth> I tried improving curves, even without half-tile https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6779/rivers_better.png 10:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not about the look. it's about the freedom to place rivers on any map tile 10:50:39 <andythenorth> yes 10:50:48 <andythenorth> I am +1 to half-tiles, I understand the issue 10:51:07 <andythenorth> the basic appearance of curves could be improved without them though, but I didn't find it worth the work 10:52:13 <nielsm> halftile rivers could possibly even re-use the ocean halftile graphics? 10:54:43 *** tokai has quit IRC 10:56:39 <nielsm> okay, no. https://0x0.st/zRlT.png 10:57:21 <LordAro> well not without additional sprites :p 10:57:38 <nielsm> my thought was that maybe it could work without additional sprites 11:02:55 <andythenorth> sprites can be drawn 11:03:14 <andythenorth> I did rivers, it took a couple of days due to climate variations, but basically fine 11:03:22 <nielsm> haha awesome... the danish translation uses at least three different terms for AI players 11:08:11 <Pikka> ew rivers 11:08:38 <Pikka> I suppose they need to be done... 11:10:41 <nielsm> oh lol this revision... https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/67a1507b83a5a51db68095bea493feef593d0752 11:10:50 <nielsm> the web translator seems to have broken that day 11:12:24 <LordAro> ha 11:14:17 * andythenorth bodges some sprites 11:15:10 <andythenorth> just 44 trains to draw@ 11:15:49 <LordAro> andythenorth: time for another redesign? 11:16:04 <andythenorth> nah, not until 98% 11:16:50 <andythenorth> if we do livery groups, I'll have to redesign the whole grf :) 11:17:03 <andythenorth> like when auto-refit destroyed FISH :) 11:17:11 <andythenorth> so livery groups then? o_O 11:20:09 <nielsm> I should go out and get some air and sunshine while available 11:21:39 <LordAro> pfft, outside 11:21:41 <andythenorth> https://i.imgur.com/XrIMbO3.jpg 11:22:01 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 11:22:08 <andythenorth> oh there was an update https://pics.ballmemes.com/reality-worst-game-ever-this-isnt-twitch-stop-watching-me-31005821.png 11:28:05 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 11:28:12 *** nielsm has quit IRC 11:41:49 <Samu> hey mister _dp_ 11:42:06 <Samu> how do i set up this? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/files/4048158/move-goods-to-station.zip 11:43:28 <Samu> "simple code", huh 11:44:32 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 11:48:20 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 12:03:46 <Samu> what does a comma do in a return? 12:03:49 <Samu> return samu, TOCC("MoveGoodsToStationSamu", 10); 12:03:56 <Samu> samu is what i want to return 12:09:16 <Samu> TICC TOCC isn't as smart as I expected 12:12:05 <peter1138> They're macros, I doubt putting it after a comma after a return statement will do anything desirable. But you never know. 12:13:43 <Samu> didnt work 12:14:08 <Samu> if i return samu after the TOCC, it says samu is undefined 12:18:48 <Samu> if TOCC is after the return, it isn't reached :( 12:19:57 <peter1138> define samu before the TICC, obviously. 12:21:14 <Samu> wow it seems to work, gonna try 12:21:22 <andythenorth> so how often is the 'trains' window repainted? 12:23:01 <andythenorth> I'm wondering if the perf. issue is the train drawing, or the profit display 12:23:56 <andythenorth> more or fewer groups don't seem to affect fps 12:24:01 <andythenorth> nor groups open or closed 12:24:53 <Samu> TICC TOCC gives me 0 us most of the time 12:25:01 <Samu> gonna try TIC TOC 12:25:09 * andythenorth suspects newgrf though 12:25:19 <andythenorth> the plane window with AV8 barely slows 12:25:31 <andythenorth> the ship window with my ship grf is horrible fps 12:25:36 <andythenorth> the RV window barely slows 12:25:41 <andythenorth> the train window nails fps to the floor 12:26:25 <peter1138> Let's see if my company is still alive. 12:26:40 <peter1138> Ooh, it is. 12:27:00 <peter1138> peter1138 MIGHT BE CONNECTING VIA A PROXY IN GB. I can guarantee I'm not :P 12:29:24 <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationSamu] 905242 [avg: 9052.4] 12:29:24 <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationOrig] 220269 [avg: 2202.7] 12:29:34 <Samu> meh, not 8 times slow 12:29:43 <Samu> @calc 9052.4/2202.7 12:29:43 <DorpsGek> Samu: 4.10968357016 12:30:31 <peter1138> Such slow 12:34:37 <andythenorth> such slow compile 12:37:08 <andythenorth> ok the vehicle window fps is caused either (1) by any vehicles in motion or (2) newgrf vehicles in motion 12:37:21 <andythenorth> I sent all trains to depot, fps substantially improved 12:37:29 <andythenorth> I don't have a vanilla game to compare yet :P 12:38:00 <peter1138> I mean... that could be pathfinding... 12:39:09 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9599/vehicle-window-windowshade-fps-2.m4v 12:41:34 <andythenorth> ok it's not limited to newgrf 12:42:26 * andythenorth trying vanilla trains 12:42:33 *** crazystacy has joined #openttd 12:46:08 <crazystacy> hi 12:46:37 <andythenorth> digression: having a FIRS industry in the viewport knocks about 20fps off FFWD speed (70-80fps vs 90-100fps) 12:48:15 <andythenorth> ok so vehicle list, (not ffwd): 34fps 150 vanilla trains stopped, 25fps 150 trains started 12:48:30 <andythenorth> windowshading the vehicle list restores fps to 34 12:48:35 <andythenorth> might be a sideshow though 12:49:11 <andythenorth> I wondered about the profit / usage display initially, as drawing text appears to be slow, but deleting that widget makes no difference 12:50:02 <crazystacy> hm, i fixed the choochoo ai, but the original author is gone, what could i do? 12:56:29 <Samu> call him 13:00:24 <LordAro> crazystacy: not a lot, really 13:00:38 <LordAro> other than publish your fixed version under a different name (licence permitting) 13:00:54 <LordAro> admiralai has similar issues 13:01:13 <crazystacy> i will upload a patch on the forum i suppose. i at least saw 1 person complaining only 1 month ago so maybe this person will benefit 13:01:36 <crazystacy> what happens is AIVehicle.GetName(vehicleId) // vehicleId is int returns null 13:01:57 <crazystacy> not sure if the API changed or if it could always return null 13:03:14 <LordAro> shouldn't have changed, if it has then there's a compatibility issue that's missing 13:05:04 <crazystacy> other problem was that Road Pathfinder was updated to v4 and it looks for v3 13:05:23 <crazystacy> not sure how libraries work, are they automagically downloaded when i download an AI? because i found the tarballs in my .openttd directory 13:05:55 <LordAro> yeah, dependencies are downloaded at the same time 13:14:39 <andythenorth> savegame runs at 21x FFWD with trains stopped 13:14:57 <andythenorth> 4x FFWD with trains started 13:15:22 <andythenorth> interesting eh 13:21:41 <andythenorth> Pikka: how do steam trains pixel? :P 13:34:10 *** tokai has joined #openttd 13:34:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 13:37:33 <Pikka> ummm 13:37:39 <Pikka> roundly? :) 13:37:49 <peter1138> Round pixels, yes. 13:37:55 <Pikka> yes 13:41:07 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 13:42:13 <andythenorth> mine all look the same https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/iron-horse/docs/html/tech_tree_table_red.html 13:42:17 <andythenorth> that can be fixed 13:42:33 <andythenorth> deasils are offer more options :P 13:44:04 <crazystacy> there are tournaments? for AI? for players? 13:44:28 <crazystacy> andythenorth, do you base your trains on real trains? 13:44:44 <andythenorth> somewhat 13:49:30 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 13:49:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 13:52:59 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 13:54:18 <Samu> i just realised MoveGoodsToStation is called an insurmountable amount of times 13:54:41 <Samu> even if it's moving 0 amounts or 0 stations around at all 13:55:00 <Samu> any tile on the map that produces cargo, calls it 13:55:37 <_dp_> Samu, it immediately returns in those cases so should be optimized out 13:56:23 *** tokai has quit IRC 13:57:58 <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationOrig] 105527 [avg: 1055.3] 13:57:58 <_dp_> why is it called with 0 amounts tho? 13:57:59 <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationSamu] 184096 [avg: 1841.0] 13:57:59 <Samu> dbg: [misc] [MoveGoodsToStationSOld] 241123 [avg: 2411.2] 13:58:42 <Samu> TIC TOC here 13:58:57 <Samu> some houses 13:59:02 <Samu> want to move 0 13:59:15 <Samu> i suspect that 14:01:02 <Samu> i can't use 1 build to test the times of 3 different methods 14:01:35 <Samu> because of UpdateStationWaiting 14:03:09 <Samu> i need 3 builds running in parallel with each method 14:08:49 <crazystacy> trying ShipAI makes me realise how decent ships are :P 14:25:25 <Samu> [img]https://i.imgur.com/muXa4Pz.png[/img] 14:25:30 <Samu> finally getting results that make sense 14:32:09 <Samu> stupid bugs 14:32:34 <Samu> loading a save randomizes random settings :( why isn't it fixed yet :( 14:33:49 <Samu> i knew there was something suspicious about the screenshots 14:35:13 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7486 14:35:16 <Samu> this bug 14:51:14 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:51:31 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 15:08:25 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 15:10:02 <Samu> funny stuff that happens in reality. with 14 Convoys as AI 15:11:06 *** SpComb has quit IRC 15:11:07 <Samu> my old method, which was supposed to make every station receive equal amounts based on rating, is resulting in 1 convoy company being ahead of every other 15:11:48 <Samu> and the original method results so far in more companies above £0 profit 15:12:49 <Samu> gonna let this evolve 5 years or so before i jump into conlcusions 15:13:54 <Samu> after all, the AIs still react accordingly 15:14:07 <Samu> no profit routes are eliminated 15:14:14 <Samu> new routes are created, etc.. 15:26:01 *** crazystacy2 has joined #openttd 15:32:27 *** crazystacy has quit IRC 15:33:40 <LordAro> Samu: re 7486 - i agree with niels - why not just remove the rerandomise block on script (re)load? 15:38:57 <Samu> I don't know 15:39:23 <Samu> they're needed 15:43:31 <Samu> I can't remove the randomize block there 15:44:00 <Samu> the way the load game is set up, it will call the Change function 15:44:53 *** tokai has joined #openttd 15:44:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 15:48:19 <Samu> I don't know how to answer that 15:51:47 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 15:54:42 <crazystacy2> uint16 does not name a type, assert was not declared in this scope 15:57:41 <_dp_> crazystacy2, I've no idea what are you doing but did you include stdafx.h? 15:57:43 *** tokai has quit IRC 15:58:26 <crazystacy2> tried to add two new source files, added to source.list 15:58:36 <crazystacy2> i will try that _dp_ 15:59:07 <nielsm> all files in ottd should include stdafx.h 15:59:14 <nielsm> as the first thing 16:00:11 *** SpComb has joined #openttd 16:00:51 <_dp_> nielsm, cpp files 16:00:57 <crazystacy2> oh. i see that now. 16:01:19 <crazystacy2> it was odd because the cpp file was empty and .h file included some other headers (i basically tried to copy an existing file, and gutted everything except 3 headers) 16:01:41 <crazystacy2> i'll wait for the compile to finish 16:03:04 <frosch123> stdafx.h is first, safeguards.h is last, for all files 16:04:19 <crazystacy2> ok. thanks 16:07:14 <crazystacy2> now it works :P 16:07:25 <crazystacy2> i still had my own header file above stdafx. 16:17:45 *** crazystacy2 has quit IRC 16:18:07 *** crazystacy2 has joined #openttd 16:25:20 <Samu> _dp_, [img]https://i.imgur.com/Bh19TsU.png[/img] 3 different methods, orig is original, samu is that of pr, samuold is that of my old PR. 16:25:49 <Samu> I am not sure if these profits were to be expected 16:25:54 <Samu> perhaps they are 16:26:18 <Samu> I also not sure of my methodology of getting TIC/TOC measurements 16:30:38 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:34:18 <peter1138> Oh. Orbx updater decided to take over my computer whilst playing ETS 2... so I have 97% truck damage, and my cargo is wrecked too :( 16:36:58 <LordAro> did you fall off a cliff? 16:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause> still 3% to go :p 16:40:06 <andythenorth> call rescue! 16:40:21 <andythenorth> or just edit the save file, it's human-editable in ETS 1 16:47:43 <andythenorth> after about 8 real hours driving, I get bored and gift myself loads of money 16:47:47 <andythenorth> then I do more driving :P 16:47:51 <andythenorth> weird game ETS 1 16:49:49 <zvxb> cheater 16:50:18 <peter1138> I don't think it is in ETS 2, but I have enough money to not care anyway. 16:50:29 <peter1138> The multiplayer mod messes it up. 16:51:41 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/zR07.png continue (Y/N)? 16:52:20 <peter1138> heh 16:52:25 <LordAro> oho 16:54:12 <andythenorth> continue 16:54:15 <andythenorth> see what happens 16:58:48 <nielsm> hm should water depth "flood" or maybe rather "normalise" in some way? perhaps via tile loop? 16:59:02 <nielsm> such that over time you get an even gradient of depth from shore out 17:00:26 <andythenorth> what's the upside? 17:00:31 <andythenorth> long shore drift? o_O 17:00:49 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longshore_drift 17:12:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7922: Improved logic of sharing industry production between stations https://git.io/JvfnP 17:16:41 *** Pikka has quit IRC 17:29:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain opened pull request #1: First version of a few actions https://git.io/Jvfnj 17:29:45 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:29:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:29:59 <TrueBrain> in case anyone is bored, and wants to review a bit of typescripting, comments are welcome :) 17:32:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #140: Add: [Actions] switch to our own actions instead of writing them out https://git.io/JvfcU 17:33:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #140: Add: [Actions] switch to our own actions instead of writing them out https://git.io/JvfcU 17:33:37 <glx> oh stuff to read :) 17:34:11 <TrueBrain> that was an interesting experience :) 17:37:32 <Samu> yay approved! 17:41:21 <crazystacy2> SDL2 support is brand-new? 17:41:46 <crazystacy2> noticed when compiling 1.9.3 as opposed to master 17:41:50 <nielsm> it's after 1.9 17:41:53 <crazystacy2> nice :) 17:42:06 <nielsm> was merged in september or so 17:43:42 <Samu> nielsm, https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7486#discussion_r329305354 - I don't know what you want me to do. Can you do it for me? 17:50:59 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/zRG3.mp4 17:51:01 <nielsm> how's that 17:52:07 <Samu> more costs to clearing water 17:52:37 <nielsm> yes one effect possible :) 17:53:01 <nielsm> also I made a silly thing where ship depots can only be built on at most 40 m depth 17:53:33 <nielsm> and oil rigs should maybe only build on high depths 17:55:00 <crazystacy2> there's depth? 17:56:15 <Samu> should I split 7486? 17:56:31 <Samu> it's solving 2 issues in 1 pr 17:56:43 <Samu> cus they're related :( 17:56:57 *** crazystacy2 has quit IRC 18:08:04 *** hythlodaeus_ has joined #openttd 18:08:09 <hythlodaeus_> hi guys 18:08:18 <hythlodaeus_> STR_REPLACE_HELP_LEFT_ARRAY :{BLACK}Select the engine type to replace 18:08:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] glx22 commented on pull request #1: First version of a few actions https://git.io/JvfCv 18:08:50 <hythlodaeus_> STR_REPLACE_HELP_RIGHT_ARRAY :{BLACK}Select the new engine type you would like to use in place of the engine type selected to the left 18:09:05 <hythlodaeus_> i would like to suggest changing these strings 18:09:29 <hythlodaeus_> the word "engine" should be replaced by "vehicle" as to avoid translation confusion 18:09:51 <hythlodaeus_> bc this string is being used for both road vehicles and trains 18:11:23 <Eddi|zuHause> hythlodaeus_: string can be split into two to improve translations 18:11:48 <hythlodaeus_> could also work 18:12:02 <hythlodaeus_> we would need three then 18:12:10 <hythlodaeus_> one for aircraft too 18:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc we did something similar in another place 18:12:51 <hythlodaeus_> I think replacing engine with vehicle would work tho 18:12:54 <glx> yeah the "engine" part could be a {STRING} 18:13:56 <hythlodaeus_> that could work too yep 18:14:18 <glx> but I can't remember if we can use the same arg in 2 places :) 18:14:36 <glx> (anyway pushing 2 times the same args work for sure) 18:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> don't we have {STRING:0} or something like that? 18:16:40 <andythenorth> hmm 18:16:42 <Samu> loading a savegame calls 3 sets of ScriptConfig::Change 's 18:16:47 <glx> yes it's often used to change the order, but I don't know if we can also reuse arg 18:17:03 <Samu> a set is made of 15 configurable AI slots + GS slot 18:17:06 <andythenorth> I played this game for 115 years, that's pretty long 18:17:08 <glx> and it's {0:STRING} 18:17:17 <andythenorth> time for a new ottd game? 18:17:30 <hythlodaeus_> would you like me to create an issue on github for this string matter? 18:17:34 <andythenorth> I want to do pax game to test some Horse vehicles 18:17:40 <andythenorth> but cities fricking suck for so many reasons 18:18:44 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: i was about to write {0:STRING} and switched it up last second... 18:20:52 * andythenorth wonders how to fix cities 18:20:55 <andythenorth> * new layout 18:21:05 <andythenorth> * 'fix' growth somehow 18:21:17 <Samu> this is extremely dificult for me to explain. Following the code with visual studio is easier 18:21:19 <andythenorth> * find solution to cdist 18:21:23 <andythenorth> oof :( 18:21:48 <Samu> it involves settings that the user defined 18:21:52 <Samu> settings left at their defaults 18:22:16 <Samu> and then a mix of those with random deviation, randomrange 18:23:02 <TrueBrain> glx: I tried to do that, but source cannot be outside the src dir, and I don't understand type script enough :D 18:23:29 <Samu> saving settings only saves some of them 18:23:30 <TrueBrain> So yeah, it would be better, I just don't know how 18:24:42 <Samu> then on load, the function ScriptConfig::Change is used to put an AI config in a company "slot" 18:25:09 <Samu> tldr; it's fine the way it is 18:26:49 <Samu> i don't know how to make it unalter AI's that have started already 18:27:29 <Samu> maybe somewhere in ai_sl.cpp 18:27:38 <andythenorth> so cdist 18:27:50 <andythenorth> is it fixable? 18:27:52 <LordAro> Samu: unalter? just don't alter it in the first place 18:28:26 <Samu> it has to configure the slot, because it was been just cleaned blank 18:28:47 <Samu> then during load, it's filled up via ScriptConfig::Change 18:29:25 <Samu> there doesn't seem to be another method to it 18:29:34 <Samu> or I don't know how 18:34:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain commented on pull request #1: First version of a few actions https://git.io/JvfCa 18:34:20 *** crazystacy has joined #openttd 18:38:57 <hythlodaeus_> guys i think it's better nd easier if we simple replace "engine" with "vehicle" since STR_REPLACE_VEHICLE_VEHICLES_IN_USE_TOOLTIP and others in the same window are already using the word vehicle, e.g "Column with vehicles that you own", "Column with vehicles available for replacement" 18:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hythlodaeus_: it's not "easier", because some languages have no generic word for "vehicle" 18:39:55 <hythlodaeus_> hmm, is that so? 18:40:09 <hythlodaeus_> well ok, we're gonna need modified versions for this one too 18:43:04 <Samu> an engine and a vehicle in openttd code are 2 different things 18:44:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 18:45:37 <hythlodaeus_> Samu, this is specifically about the vehicle replacement window 18:45:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JvfCy 18:45:45 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:45:59 <hythlodaeus_> it's using the word "engine" universally to designate train engines, road vehicles, and aircraft 18:47:04 <Samu> for gui purposes, it can be confusing 18:47:23 <hythlodaeus_> this doesn't work i.e in Portuguese where you cannot use the word "motor" to designate a bus or a truck 18:47:40 <hythlodaeus_> or "locomotiva" for that matter 18:48:07 <andythenorth> bored of this https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9608/cdist.png 18:48:20 <Samu> in that window, the code calls them "engines" 18:48:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Hezkore commented on issue #7006: Hardware mouse cursor https://git.io/fhqLt 18:48:27 <andythenorth> I guess I could add some giant pax trains 18:48:59 <andythenorth> but I have some in other cities which are 400 pax per tile length 18:49:06 <andythenorth> and the stations still don't clear 18:49:10 <andythenorth> losing is boring 18:49:25 <andythenorth> 500 pax per coach? 18:52:17 <Samu> ah, you're portuguese? 18:52:24 <Samu> just call it "modelo" 18:52:26 <Samu> :p 18:53:55 <Samu> there was some recent portuguese translations than have undone what I translated... meh, must be u 18:54:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions https://git.io/Jvfnj 19:00:05 <crazystacy> make an esperanto translation and make everyone learn it 19:00:21 <crazystacy> andythenorth, do you play alone? 19:00:41 <andythenorth> yes 19:01:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions https://git.io/Jvfnj 19:01:39 <crazystacy> so i should get iron horse 2 i am guessing? 19:01:50 <crazystacy> or are they two separate contents 19:04:57 <frosch123> there is an esperanto translation, but it has not been updated in years 19:05:19 <frosch123> crazystacy: http://translator.openttd.org/translation/openttd-trunk/eo_EO 19:07:21 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 19:07:40 <andythenorth> Iron Horse 1 is separate from 2 19:07:47 <andythenorth> for those who don't like 2 19:07:48 <crazystacy> shame for the few thousand speakers 19:07:53 <crazystacy> andythenorth, can they be mixed? 19:08:00 <andythenorth> nothing stops it 19:08:02 <andythenorth> I wouldn't 19:08:07 <crazystacy> i now realised you also made FISH 19:08:16 <crazystacy> my favourite is the harbour point utility vessel 19:09:18 <andythenorth> :) 19:11:10 <TrueBrain> LordAro: fun "fact": when you run "black" over your codebase, flake8 no longer accepts the result :) 19:11:22 <TrueBrain> - commits_url = commits_url[len("https://api.github.com"):] 19:11:22 <TrueBrain> + commits_url = commits_url[len("https://api.github.com") :] 19:11:24 <TrueBrain> it makes boo-boos :) 19:11:50 <LordAro> TrueBrain: yes, black mentions these in its readme 19:11:55 <LordAro> says you should turn those off :p 19:12:38 <TrueBrain> which is ..... well .... 19:12:40 <TrueBrain> what can I say :) 19:14:22 <LordAro> https://github.com/psf/black#slices you can read it as well as i can ;) 19:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause> if you feel the need to say "turn off option X" in your readme, why not change the default setting?!? 19:15:22 <TrueBrain> it is stupid :P 19:15:33 <TrueBrain> and who reads readmes .. 19:15:34 <TrueBrain> ffs :P 19:15:38 <TrueBrain> but fair enough LordAro :) 19:15:39 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly 19:16:52 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: black says to turn the option in flake8 off 19:17:01 <LordAro> they can't exactly do anything about that 19:19:20 <crazystacy> andythenorth, aren't the metro trains incredibly tiny compared to the tracks? 19:19:35 <andythenorth> not for me 19:20:08 <andythenorth> guess it depends on the track grf 19:21:10 <crazystacy> ah 19:22:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the default tracks are pretty massive 19:23:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain opened pull request #14: Reworked GitHub Actions https://git.io/JvfWz 19:23:23 <crazystacy> yes, i like the narrow gauge 19:23:36 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:23:48 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:24:19 <nielsm> andythenorth: do you know/remember how ships that have different speeds in canals, rivers, and on sea implement that? 19:24:41 <nielsm> are they just built in two different top speeds? or does it use a callback to check the underlying tile? 19:24:43 <andythenorth> there is a newgrf property 19:24:46 <andythenorth> I'll look 19:24:48 <crazystacy> i wish there were even more ships 19:25:08 <andythenorth> nielsm: prop 14 and 15 19:25:23 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain updated pull request #14: Reworked GitHub Actions https://git.io/JvfWz 19:25:27 <andythenorth> it's not a newgrf cb, but I assume there's an underlying openttd cb 19:25:37 <andythenorth> cb / tile check /s 19:25:43 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Ships 19:27:06 <frosch123> i think yapf also assigns different path costs depending on those speeds 19:31:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWw 19:32:50 <nielsm> hmm, milestone 1.10.0 is marked as "due by february 1st" on github, we'll have to hurry up to hit that! 19:33:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-proxy] TrueBrain opened pull request #8: Switch to GitHub Actions https://git.io/JvfWo 19:33:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 19:33:21 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we want 1.10 out by last october or something? :p 19:33:26 <nielsm> yeah 19:33:31 <TrueBrain> right ... if these commits are reviewed, I should be able to deploy these to AWS, and I can shut down kubernetes :D 19:33:47 <LordAro> nielsm: it was overdue, i figured i should bump it a bit 19:34:06 <LordAro> TrueBrain: it's quite hard to review 90000 lines of code in a language no one else reads 19:34:16 <TrueBrain> LordAro: try writing them :P 19:34:54 <TrueBrain> I never wrote a Typescript project from scratch before, so yeah .. :P 19:35:11 <TrueBrain> blame GitHub Actions 19:35:14 <crazystacy> typescript? for github? 19:35:27 *** greeter has quit IRC 19:35:30 <crazystacy> for openttd* 19:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: a statement i read recently: "We introduced VMs to solve problems with Distributions. We introduced Containers to solve problems with VMs. We introduced Docker to solve problems with Containers. We introduced Kubernetes to solve problems with Docker" 19:36:45 <TrueBrain> well, k8s didn't solve anything ... yet 19:36:49 <Wolf01> The next step should be distributions again 19:36:50 <TrueBrain> it only over-complicated matters 19:37:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain updated pull request #14: Reworked GitHub Actions https://git.io/JvfWz 19:39:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 19:39:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-proxy] TrueBrain merged pull request #8: Switch to GitHub Actions https://git.io/JvfWo 19:39:51 <TrueBrain> huh? 19:39:53 <TrueBrain> that is .. wrong 19:42:14 *** greeter has joined #openttd 19:42:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-proxy] TrueBrain opened pull request #9: New actions https://git.io/JvfWd 19:43:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWF 19:43:02 <TrueBrain> so that never happened okay? 19:44:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-proxy] TrueBrain updated pull request #9: Switch to GitHub Actions https://git.io/JvfWd 19:48:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/Jvflv 20:01:36 <glx> typescript is not that hard to read, it's very similar to JS :) 20:02:04 <TrueBrain> it is vastly more difficult to write, especially if you run a linter over it 20:02:08 <TrueBrain> complains about almost EVERYTHING :P 20:02:44 <glx> I just need to find how to test stuff locally 20:03:44 <TrueBrain> that repo is nearly impossible to test locally 20:03:57 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/TrueBrain/test-actions/actions <- this runs most of the code 20:04:04 <glx> I can test the building at least 20:04:16 <TrueBrain> npm install 20:04:18 <TrueBrain> npm run all 20:04:27 <TrueBrain> I should add that to the readme 20:07:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions https://git.io/Jvfnj 20:07:16 <TrueBrain> at least now a few words how to build it locally :) 20:08:09 <glx> yeah with the right command it's easier :) 20:08:47 <TrueBrain> yeah, sorry about that; I should have done that earlier :) 20:09:25 <glx> I tried "npm run build" but the deps were not installed so of course it failed 20:09:43 <glx> I should have try bootstrap ;) 20:11:46 <glx> and of course I get a different output in dist 20:12:01 <TrueBrain> that should not happen 20:12:04 <TrueBrain> everything is pinned 20:12:05 <TrueBrain> so that is odd 20:13:19 <glx> different version of the tools maybe 20:16:20 <TrueBrain> how big is the diff? 20:16:25 <TrueBrain> like everything, or just small parts? 20:16:36 <TrueBrain> (and you did 'npm run all'?) 20:22:44 <TrueBrain> ah, my ncc version is not what I pinned 20:22:46 <TrueBrain> that is interesting 20:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> NCC 1701? 20:26:31 <TrueBrain> ah, no, ncc is of the correct version, it just reports the wrong one 20:26:32 <TrueBrain> lol 20:27:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions https://git.io/Jvfnj 20:29:24 <TrueBrain> hmm .. my local path is in the 'dist' file, is that the diff you are seeing glx? 20:29:49 <glx> no the diff was quite big 20:29:59 <TrueBrain> one does not exclude the other :) 20:30:08 <TrueBrain> module.exports can be different, I guess 20:30:12 <glx> but I should retry with current PR version :) 20:42:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 updated pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/JedpH 20:42:14 <TrueBrain> found how to deal with the absolute paths :) 20:42:40 *** Montana has joined #openttd 20:42:56 <milek7_> hm.. https://i.imgur.com/wjGJrRJ.png 20:43:09 <TrueBrain> please don't go in there 20:44:11 <andythenorth> "something is not right" 20:44:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/actions] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: First version of a few actions https://git.io/Jvfnj 20:45:07 <TrueBrain> glx: try the latest :) Hopefully that no longer generates a diff 20:49:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/Jvf8W 21:04:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 updated pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/JedpH 21:08:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/Jvf4f 21:08:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/Jvf4U 21:11:18 *** hythlodaeus_ has quit IRC 21:13:24 *** hythlodaeus has joined #openttd 21:16:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/Jvf43 21:16:31 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:17:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/Jvf4G 21:17:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/Jvf4Z 21:22:06 <hythlodaeus> nielsm: do you think you could have a look at PR #7870? I did the changes you requested, and then some 21:23:54 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 21:27:32 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:27:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #7925: A certain save-game corrupts the title screen sprites when loaded. https://git.io/Jvf40 21:29:43 <Samu> that water depth patch sounds interesting for pathfinder reasons 21:30:06 <Samu> remove water tracks from too deep water = faster pf 21:32:43 <Samu> would make ships navigate more around coasts automagically 21:32:49 <hythlodaeus> water depth can add a whole new level to ships gameplay 21:33:19 <hythlodaeus> would be very nice if, for instance, bigger ships like cargo/tankers couldn't navigate on shallow depths 21:33:43 <hythlodaeus> it greatly affects positioning of ports IRL 21:34:30 <nielsm> the tile loop depth evening out thing I have in right now should probably not stay, at least not at the rate it works currently 21:34:48 <nielsm> it makes depth not important enough 21:35:03 <andythenorth> depth as distance to coast? 21:35:08 <andythenorth> what does depth even do? 21:35:10 <andythenorth> :) 21:35:11 <nielsm> depth should generally be something that exists from worldgen, not something that happens on its own 21:35:19 <andythenorth> can I dredge? 21:35:24 <nielsm> (except over the course of decades) 21:35:52 <andythenorth> if we added non-navigable depths to sea 21:36:00 <andythenorth> then building ports does get more interesting 21:36:08 <andythenorth> channels would need creating 21:36:56 <nielsm> andythenorth can you make water sprite variations that indicate deeper water levels? :D 21:37:13 <andythenorth> not trivially 21:37:19 <andythenorth> the usual approach is to change water colour 21:37:23 <andythenorth> but eh 21:37:52 <andythenorth> green water vs blue water 21:37:58 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green-water_navy 21:38:00 <glx> TrueBrain: still big diff 21:38:19 <andythenorth> also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown-water_navy 21:38:45 <TrueBrain> glx: post part of diff somewhere? 21:38:46 <Samu> or instead of removing water tracks, maybe make bigger pathfinder penalties 21:38:50 <hythlodaeus> In order for depth to look good, tiles would have to animated in a way to transition seamlessly tho 21:39:15 <hythlodaeus> otherwise we'll have rough edges all over the place 21:39:39 <nielsm> yes there would have to be some transition pieces between the different water tile sprites 21:40:23 <hythlodaeus> that would work yeah 21:40:29 <hythlodaeus> nielsm: kindly peep my request for a PR review :) 21:40:50 <nielsm> sorry not right now, semi-busy 21:41:21 <hythlodaeus> no worries 21:41:41 <Samu> also, different ship speeds depending on depth it is in 21:41:54 <Samu> wow, so much genius idea 21:42:24 <Samu> in the end this all results in nerfs for ships :p 21:42:53 <glx> TrueBrain: https://devs.openttd.org/~glx/checkout.diff it's one of the smaller diff (1450 lines) 21:44:09 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 21:44:23 <hythlodaeus> with water depth added, ships can become almost as complex as trains, and planning routes would become important 21:44:54 <hythlodaeus> wouldn't be able to sail a tanker in a 1 tile canal for example 21:45:09 <glx> seems the files are generated in a different way 21:46:33 <supermop_Home_> hythlodaeus: water depth in game: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea#/media/File:Aralship2.jpg 21:47:05 <TrueBrain> Tnx glx. Interesting. What happens if you run 'npm run clean && npm run all'? 21:47:27 <TrueBrain> Don't know enough about web webpack to understand what these numbers means 21:48:23 <TrueBrain> I also wonder if it matters 21:49:32 <supermop_Home_> apparently some of my old Pizzicato 5 CDs would be worth like 0 now 21:49:42 <TrueBrain> For now I am going to ignore it. First I want it done; after that we can optimise 21:49:44 <hythlodaeus> aha oh wow 21:49:51 <hythlodaeus> man the aral sea is such a tragedy 21:54:19 <andythenorth> buy menu vehicle groups might help this horror https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9609/stuff-and-things-both.png 21:55:25 <hythlodaeus> can, I ask, why not implementing type icons as some newgrfs already do? 21:55:50 <hythlodaeus> XUSSR for example, uses icons to distinguish between diesel, electric, etc 21:56:07 <hythlodaeus> and you can combine them better as well for hybrid locos 21:56:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/Jvf4d 21:57:45 <hythlodaeus> lol 22:01:03 <LordAro> #7925 is an impressive amount of breakage 22:01:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/Jvf4p 22:01:45 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 22:02:08 <glx> LordAro: yeah seems it massively corrupts memory 22:02:47 <LordAro> to valgrind! 22:03:59 <andythenorth> I guess if your favourite thing is finding esoteric bugs 22:04:05 <andythenorth> adding more settings doesn't scare you at all 22:04:16 <crazystacy> why do water tiles have depth 22:04:23 * crazystacy reads backlog 22:05:15 <nielsm> crazystacy they don't, yet 22:05:30 <nielsm> except in the new feature I tried develping today 22:05:41 <crazystacy> i meant, what is the purpose 22:05:44 <crazystacy> i like it, i like boats 22:06:00 <nielsm> the purpose is to make water more interesting and more challenging 22:06:27 <nielsm> deep tiles can be more expensive to fill in, making water more challenging to get past 22:06:41 <nielsm> deep tiles can be required for certain industries, or perhaps certain ships 22:06:48 <crazystacy> ah. so you could terraform "down" in water? 22:06:49 <nielsm> shallow water can be required for certain other things 22:07:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfBT 22:07:12 <nielsm> maybe, somehow 22:07:18 <nielsm> not right now :) 22:07:33 <crazystacy> in the future 22:13:21 *** crazystacy has quit IRC 22:13:56 <hythlodaeus> tbh i always felt that ships were crazy neglected in TTD 22:14:39 <hythlodaeus> like Chris Sawyer spent 70% of his time on trains and then decided to do ships at last minute just because 22:14:46 *** Montana has quit IRC 22:16:46 <nielsm> I tried making a depth check for oil rigs construction, but turned out to be pointless, at least currently, since they already have the "water check zone" around them 22:17:06 <nielsm> which is why it isn't part of that PR right now 22:18:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfB4 22:19:37 <LordAro> hahahaha 22:19:54 <nielsm> did we finally make clearing water sufficiently expensive? 22:20:17 <nielsm> but, the Money type used for all costs should protect against overflows 22:20:21 <nielsm> so it's not a problem 22:20:38 <Samu> doesn't protect underflow someone told me 22:21:30 <LordAro> yeah, this is true 22:22:09 <Samu> i had a company into the negative so much that it suddenly became quadrillionaire the next month 22:28:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh dismissed a review for pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/Jedhp 22:30:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/JvfBD 22:34:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfBH 22:35:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/JvfB5 22:38:10 <Samu> GetMaxTrackSpeed 22:38:57 <Samu> doesn't exist for water 22:43:07 <nielsm> what determines a water vessel's top speed? 22:44:30 <nielsm> friction (depends on vessel shape) 22:44:33 <nielsm> ability to handle bad weather (depends on vessel shape and local conditions which might be modeled by depth) 22:45:29 <nielsm> ability to turn and/or stop (depends on vessel shape, and possibly distance to coast/shallows) 22:46:03 <nielsm> I don't think it makes sense to have speed limits as such on water 22:46:20 <nielsm> well maybe canals/near bridges 22:50:46 <Samu> i was thinking, slower speeds near coasts 22:51:23 <Samu> faster speeds when it is walking on water with some more depth 22:52:01 <Samu> pathfinder would also need to be adjusted, have increased costs on lower depth tiles 22:52:19 <nielsm> there's a better way 22:52:20 <hythlodaeus> don't forget currents 22:52:21 <Samu> and lesser costs on water with more depth 22:52:35 <nielsm> ships can already have different speeds on ocean and on river/canal 22:52:41 <hythlodaeus> and wind of course 22:52:58 <nielsm> change the meaning of those two speeds to "on depth" and "on shallows" instead 22:53:10 <nielsm> then the pathfinder will already prefer routes that can use the faster speed 22:53:38 <hythlodaeus> currents play a huge role both in rivers an oceans. a boat travelling upstream and thus against current will obviously go much slower 22:53:54 <hythlodaeus> or at least require more engine effort 22:53:56 <nielsm> additionally we could introduce a callback for ships to ask it what its speed on a particular tile would be 22:54:07 <Samu> there is no currents, but i notice that waters have random bits 22:54:19 <nielsm> unfortunately we don't have flow in water, at least not yet :) 22:54:24 <hythlodaeus> oh i thought you were talking IRL 22:54:30 <hythlodaeus> as in what to plan 22:54:54 <Samu> random bits could be used to determine random speed penalties :p 22:55:07 <Samu> very minor though 22:55:38 <Samu> then call it, "it was the wind effect" 22:56:49 <nielsm> if you wanted wind to have an effect then something with tile hash and current date would be more likely to do sensible-feeling things I think 22:57:48 <nielsm> or something else that makes areas nearby have similar wind conditions 22:58:30 <milek7_> ata1: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x4000000 action 0xe frozen ata2: exception Emask 0x10 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x4000000 action 0xe frozen 22:58:39 <milek7_> dwa dyski naraz chyba się nie zepsuły 22:58:50 <milek7_> oops, wrong window 22:58:53 <Samu> milek7_, yes! 22:58:56 <Samu> yes to that 22:59:55 <Samu> gonna take a look at pathfinder, it's something I can at least adjust 23:00:04 <Samu> since im more familiar 23:01:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 23:06:39 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:07:46 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 23:13:24 <Samu> if (IsTileType(n.GetTile(), MP_WATER)) { 23:13:24 <Samu> c += YAPF_TILE_LENGTH * (WATER_DEPTH_MAX - GetWaterDepth(n.GetTile())); 23:13:24 <Samu> } 23:13:31 <Samu> hue 23:13:38 <Samu> gotta go sleep take care 23:17:03 <nielsm> huh yapf can't pathfind between these docks? https://0x0.st/zRdG.jpg 23:17:52 <glx> it should 23:17:52 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:19:02 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:20:00 <glx> I don't think we have a "show reservation" thing for water 23:20:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] sheepo99 commented on pull request #7870: Change: improved english tooltips https://git.io/JvfRF 23:20:53 <glx> maybe the path is too long to be found without buoys 23:20:59 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:21:05 <glx> but yapf should handle that 23:21:38 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:23:11 <FLHerne> nielsm: Was there previously a connection between those long narrow channels? 23:23:19 <FLHerne> If so, caching bug? 23:23:25 <nielsm> no 23:25:33 <glx> to go in this location, it seems it used the direction to dock fallback 23:26:16 <glx> do you get ship is lost notices ? 23:26:24 <nielsm> this also fails: https://0x0.st/zRnr.jpg 23:26:33 <nielsm> the ship just circles around in the corner 23:26:42 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 23:27:28 <nielsm> and no, no lost warnings 23:27:43 <glx> so PF bugs 23:28:11 <glx> and in yapf it's a pain 23:28:19 <nielsm> oh now it did get lost yes 23:28:45 <glx> anyway there's a path it should find it, still a PF bug 23:28:45 <nielsm> maybe it was because I had "advice on players vehicles 23:28:51 <nielsm> turned off 23:29:01 <nielsm> when it first got lost, and then it didn't re-post the message 23:29:43 <glx> OPF had a length limit for pathfinding but I think there's no limit for newer PF 23:29:52 <nielsm> but yes it does prefer paths away from the coast with this change 23:30:19 <TrueBrain> glx: I looked why the order of 'ids' can be different. The "ID" it creates are set to "deterministic" ... funny word, as it turns out :P Seems that the global npm package influences it somehow 23:30:25 <TrueBrain> bit silly tbh 23:31:10 <glx> I'm currently cleaning stuff, I noticed removing the pr branch wasn't removing all files 23:31:11 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:31:50 <TrueBrain> 'npm run clean' removes everything relevant 23:32:08 <glx> but for some reason it didn't want to run 23:32:17 <TrueBrain> "deterministic - Module names are hashed into small numeric values." 23:32:26 <TrueBrain> glx: it is expecting to run on a linux command line btw :D 23:32:55 <TrueBrain> "clean": "lerna exec rm -- -rf node_modules package-lock.json dist lib", 23:33:11 <TrueBrain> the only command that does that :P 23:33:48 <glx> well rm "partially works" in powershell ;) 23:33:56 <glx> it's an alias 23:34:21 <TrueBrain> yeah, the -rf only is not compatible 23:34:32 <TrueBrain> so remove all the "node_modules" folders, and you will be fine :) 23:34:50 <glx> but exec rm doesn't because it's not an executable 23:36:38 *** rtrdd has joined #openttd 23:37:52 <glx> no changes, still the big diffs 23:40:20 <TrueBrain> *shrug* 23:40:24 <TrueBrain> doesn't matter, really 23:40:38 <TrueBrain> I am more interested in a review atm :) 23:40:43 <glx> yes it's just annoying :) 23:41:30 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 23:42:20 <TrueBrain> there are more things that are annoying :) I am just more happy if this works, and I can shut down k8s :P 23:42:49 *** zvxb has quit IRC 23:50:32 <nielsm> hmm, building canal over river, the river depth should be preserved, right? should there be a max depth to canals? what should happen if the player tries to build canal over a river deeper than the max canal depth? 23:52:31 <nielsm> (error? just lower depth? additional cost?) 23:52:58 <hythlodaeus> if depth means there there has to be a transitioning area, then it might not be a problem at all 23:53:15 <hythlodaeus> because a deeper river would also mean it would be wider 23:54:30 <hythlodaeus> so it's very much like raising or lowering terrain: no tile can be raised/lowered without afecting thhe depth of the surrounding ones 23:55:03 <hythlodaeus> so a 1-tile wide course of water would always have the same depth