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Log for #openttd on 8th April 2020:
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02:18:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #8032: Fix #7904: Don't use a timer for hundredth tick determination https://git.io/JvxLt
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06:27:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/Jvx3E
06:30:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window https://git.io/Jvx3g
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07:24:42  <andythenorth> moin
07:25:00  <peter1138> Yes?
07:35:32  <Samu> hi
07:47:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window https://git.io/JvxGM
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09:46:11  <Samu> another visual studio update, seriously microsoft, it's getting annoying
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10:00:33  <andythenorth> at least you're not on a mac
10:00:44  <andythenorth> the update experience is truly frigging awful
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10:09:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7193: Fix #6468: Load correct version of AI as specified during the time of its save. https://git.io/Jvxls
10:13:04  <Samu> hmm yeah, that savegame version loading can get confusing
10:13:14  <andythenorth> at least my mac keys work on this model
10:13:21  <andythenorth> it's horribly horribly slow computer though
10:32:50  <peter1138> My tablet is updating... 22%.
10:33:13  <peter1138> It's a 32bit Windows tablet with 1GB RAM, so... taking its time.
10:38:58  <LordAro> peter1138: proably come back tomorrow
10:45:00  <Samu> ship depot is ruining the pathfinder :(
10:46:32  <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/P3urR3P.png - bad pathfinder, bad
10:48:16  <andythenorth> so Kamnet asked me if we would consider increasing ship max speed
10:48:31  <andythenorth> anyone got a patch for that? o_O
10:48:38  <andythenorth> I assume it's ekranoplans again
10:50:10  <_dp_> transport type that can only be used with a "no crash" cheat? xD
10:51:17  <Samu> how to detect whether it's possible to connect a tile to another with water, without actually having water on the tiles yet
10:51:41  <Samu> the api is missing something...
10:53:55  <Samu> who would have thought, that i was going to be the ship depot to ruin my day
10:58:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window https://git.io/Jvx4e
11:09:29  <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/UhTkhH0.png
11:09:33  <Samu> not quite what I wanted
11:09:40  <Samu> it avoids the depot completely
11:13:10  <Samu> if the depot is the only passage, which it quite often is when speaking of canals
11:13:29  <Samu> it's going to fail many paths
11:13:34  <Samu> must think
11:15:41  <Samu> AreWaterTilesConnected is useless in this case
11:15:50  <peter1138> LordAro, just finished ;)
11:15:52  <Samu> there is no water nearby
11:15:57  <Samu> in planning mode
11:16:22  <peter1138> andythenorth, I do actually have a patch for it.
11:18:48  <peter1138> And tablet just finished logging in...
11:18:59  <andythenorth> coding on tablet? o_O
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11:40:13  <andythenorth> hmm
11:40:27  <andythenorth> I reckon I could layer a whole extra chain into FIRS Steeltown https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
11:40:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] msikma commented on issue #7644: Mysteriously poor performance on macOS https://git.io/fjii3
11:41:00  <andythenorth> https://geardiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/Jeff-Goldblum-GIF.gif
12:01:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bfut opened issue #8068: Streetcar track removal fails when bank balance negative https://git.io/JvxRZ
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12:25:58  <LordAro> oh matrix
12:26:01  <LordAro> u so silly
12:27:03  <peter1138> Salad time!
12:28:26  <andythenorth> yum
12:28:28  <peter1138> And, more Windows updates!
12:29:12  <peter1138> Damn, all these breweries offering online ordering and delivery of beer... but the beer is about 2-3x the price of normal beer :(
12:30:06  <LordAro> peter1138: there's a rumour that a landlord friend of mine is selling beer for £7.50 for 4 pints
12:30:10  <LordAro> i should ask him about that
12:30:31  <peter1138> That is... a lot but still less.
12:31:06  <LordAro> it's a lot less than i'd pay for 4 pints normally
12:31:17  <peter1138> In a pub, for sure.
12:32:43  <peter1138> 8 3/4 pints for £23
12:32:43  <LordAro> true
12:32:44  <peter1138> Hmm
12:33:19  <peter1138> So 5 litres, heh
12:33:52  <peter1138> Which has to be drunk in 4 days.
12:33:57  <peter1138> Doable but kinda excessive.
12:34:02  <LordAro> a little
12:34:51  <peter1138> Special coupon to remove the £10 delivery charge, that's good I suppose.
12:35:06  <peter1138> Plus a combo offer, so 10 litres of beer for £41.
12:35:15  <LordAro> where are you ordering from, ooi?
12:35:44  <peter1138> Looking at my local in this instance, https://chilternbrewery.co.uk/
12:42:21  <peter1138> Damn, this Trek "protein" nut bar (so it's just a nut bar and full of fat so they had to call it protein to make it sell more) is very salty.
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12:42:26  <peter1138> Oh!
12:42:43  <peter1138> "Dark chocolate and sea salt" Yes, that would do it
12:43:05  <peter1138> Problem with salted nuts if you always want more, of course.
12:43:12  <peter1138> s/if/is/
12:44:04  <LordAro> that does sound nice
12:44:22  <LordAro> wait, you're no longer talking about beer
12:46:02  <rotterdxm> look beer and salted nuts go hand in hand (but not these days i guess)
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12:49:44  <peter1138> Heh
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13:17:12  <supermop_Home> hello
13:17:56  <peter1138> Another Facebook ad... 12 bottles for £30 o_O
13:18:14  <supermop_Home> beer or wine
13:18:20  <peter1138> Beer. 500ml.
13:18:38  <peter1138> That would be cheap for wine, yeah.
13:25:23  <supermop_Home> almost out of beer here
13:25:59  <supermop_Home> plenty of wine though
13:26:15  <supermop_Home> low on whiskey
13:26:27  <supermop_Home> and whisky
13:30:23  <peter1138> I've got plenty of whisky... meant to be gifts, but might not be ;D
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13:36:47  <supermop_Home> I had a nice box of some special glenmorainge in my emergency gift stcokpile
13:37:08  <supermop_Home> but that got raided last weeek
13:47:51  <peter1138> Presumably you still have some left...
13:54:55  <rotterdxm> supermop_Home, i was thinking about doing some work on your Docklands set. have 1.0 source code from the forum thread, but that´s not the most recent one. do you still have source for 1.01?
13:55:25  <rotterdxm> i´m using the cobblestone for the mediterranean building set and would like to expand on those a bit more
14:00:50  <supermop_Home> oh hmm I probably have it on an external hdd?
14:00:57  <supermop_Home> i can look for it
14:01:17  <supermop_Home> you want the psd files?
14:02:15  <supermop_Home> apparently i need to lose my cargo ageing code that i added to simulate jam packed standing room trams
14:03:04  <supermop_Home> i wonder if i could still add loading speed that changes based on load amount
14:03:46  <supermop_Home> i don't do BAD FEATURES - I do poorly conceived ESOTERIC BAD FEATURES
14:04:24  <supermop_Home> haven't touched any grf stuff in like 18 month though because it was all on previous computer
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14:48:01  <rotterdxm> supermop_Home, the PSDs would be nice too but I mainly want those bugfixes since 1.0
14:48:30  <rotterdxm> would rather work with the best version if i´m to add on to it
14:48:53  <rotterdxm> also thanks for taking the time to look
14:49:02  <rotterdxm> i was very happy to discover your docklands stuff
14:49:31  <rotterdxm> will be making transitional tiles for your roads and the FIRS and CHIPS terrains
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16:11:55  <nielsm> 1.10.1 today?
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16:50:10  <supermop_Home> rotterdxm should i send you the .zip on forum?
17:20:43  <rotterdxm> supermop_Home, yes plz
17:20:45  <rotterdxm> same account name
17:20:54  <rotterdxm> and again thanks !!!
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17:45:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JvxPG
17:45:47  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
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17:50:37  <frosch123> i wonder how tb configured the mail server. apparently we can receive mails from some parallel universe
17:50:46  <frosch123> "Could I have level 100 please because my brother is really into planes and he can’t fly the because I am not high enough level so I was just wondering thx"
17:55:12  <andythenorth> randoms
18:02:37  <SpComb> sentence structure get
18:03:57  <frosch123> SpComb: ofc that was the subject, the body is empty
18:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> houses don't use cargo labels for acceptance <-- that's unfixable, because all old GRFs behave like that
18:04:59  <frosch123> the 64bit cargo support added a cargolist for house acceptance
18:05:18  <frosch123> s/bit//
18:05:54  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that doesn't magically fix existing GRFs
18:05:57  <frosch123> is andy working on a house set?
18:06:22  <Eddi|zuHause> no, he's complaining that his industry GRF can't remove "Goods" cargo
18:06:39  <frosch123> ah, ok :)
18:07:44  <andythenorth> afaict, the solution is that I do a house set
18:07:49  <andythenorth> inside FIRS
18:07:55  <andythenorth> re-implementing all the base houses
18:08:25  <frosch123> that's probably a bad idea :)
18:08:28  <andythenorth> I'm wondering if I can automate that by having python parse the C++ files where the houses are defined
18:08:32  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a "solution" that creates more problems than it solves
18:09:26  <frosch123> i am sure you can find a cargo in every economy that is equally favoured by customers as goods
18:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why can't you just accept that the first 6 or 7 cargos in the CTT are "fixed"?
18:09:32  <nielsm> can we hack the base game to have some more pseudo cargos for "first town cargo" (goods default), "second town cargo" (food default) which house sets can then use, and translate the old house properties' values for goods and food into those pseudo values?
18:09:47  <nielsm> and then an industry grf can define which cargos count as those two pseudo cargos?
18:09:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you can rename them, but not remove them
18:09:50  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I have, what do you mean?
18:10:17  <frosch123> anyway, i think ottd already patches the default ships to use cargolabels
18:10:25  <frosch123> probably same can be done for default houses
18:10:26  <andythenorth> I literally wrote a guard for it https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/master/src/cargo.py#L50
18:10:43  <andythenorth> but I can't stop the bug reports for economies where Goods isn't a cargo
18:10:59  <nielsm> well the towns have to accept something?
18:11:10  <andythenorth> I haven't campaigned to get this fixed
18:11:26  <andythenorth> because I think town acceptance is blah blah already
18:11:44  <andythenorth> I don't really use towns in my games any more, except to get local authority permission
18:12:20  * andythenorth considers playing without towns
18:12:36  <nielsm> replace all town buildings with parking lots
18:17:15  * andythenorth wonders if YETI has goods
18:19:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a lot of the discussions in the past few years show the same fundamental problem: you have a too narrow view of gameplay in mind
18:19:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you have a problem seeing how other people play the game
18:19:41  <Eddi|zuHause> which leads to bad game design
18:20:18  <andythenorth> ok, I'll come back later
18:20:31  <frosch123> what's if the problem is with the other people?
18:20:34  <andythenorth> this isn't a conducive conversation
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18:21:00  <Eddi|zuHause> that was probably phrased too harshly
18:22:37  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: accepting that the users are flawed is an important lesson as well :)
18:24:52  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the major problem with your argument is that you remove all edges. if every set is made to please everyone, they converge to the same thing. just as large political parties
18:26:54  <frosch123> ah, i found another solution. andy can rename the pax cargo to "metalvores"
18:27:14  <frosch123> or "robots" if that is too abstract
18:27:25  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that is true, however, that means if you have to put in edges, you have to deal with the people that wish the edge was a tiny bit in a different place
18:28:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fboscato opened issue #8069: Não consigo comprar as componias no jogo  https://git.io/JvxX5
18:30:07  <nielsm> can anyone translate?
18:31:15  <Eddi|zuHause> from the 75% i think he's talking about buying shares?
18:31:31  <nielsm> yea I assume it's something with that
18:33:19  <nielsm> google translate says "I can't buy companies when I own 75% shares"
18:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably been a multiplayer session at some point?
18:34:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8069: Unable to take over companies https://git.io/JvxX5
18:35:05  <nielsm> I did a rough guesstranslation based off google
18:35:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8069: Unable to take over companies https://git.io/JvxX5
18:37:14  <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion: can always buy 100% of an AI company, and buying 100% of a player company pops up a question whether they accept (puts the original owner in spectator mode. can switch to new company if they know the password)
18:38:46  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly with a setting
18:38:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8068: Streetcar track removal fails when bank balance negative https://git.io/JvxRZ
18:40:04  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, what if he a) doesn't want to accept but gets spammed b) accepts accidentally?
18:40:51  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: a) talk to an admin, b) bad luck
18:41:17  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: a) could be limited to once per month
18:41:36  <nielsm> make it a button in your own company window instead, you have to manually open your own copmany window and click the button to accept the buyout
18:42:25  <nielsm> a buyout offer lasts for maybe a month, you can't send another while it stands and you can't rescind it
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18:56:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fboscato commented on issue #8069: Unable to take over companies https://git.io/JvxX5
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19:05:05  <andythenorth> right, what are we talking about?
19:05:12  * andythenorth had broken git, broken python, broken node
19:05:14  <andythenorth> in prod.
19:05:40  <andythenorth> this is now resolved, or at least the 404 checker thinks so
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19:07:34  <_dp_> accident protection can work like !resetme on our servers, you need to agree and immediately leave a company
19:07:43  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause the narrow view leads to bad API design not bad gameplay design
19:08:08  <andythenorth> gameplay tends to be better when it excludes compromise
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19:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i said "game", not "gameplay"
19:09:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the API is very much part of "game design"
19:09:21  <andythenorth> yes
19:09:47  <andythenorth> it's not controversial that my approach makes for terrible API design
19:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> what i was saying after you left, was that whatever way you narrow it down, you have to deal with people who want it slightly wider in some direction
19:11:30  <andythenorth> there are 2 aspects to towns/houses
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19:12:17  <andythenorth> (1) is there a simple fix to have towns use labels, not fixed numeric cargo slots (2) is 1 terrible?
19:12:59  <andythenorth> towns / houses /s
19:13:23  <nielsm> I don't think there is a simple fix, it would have to be intrusive and make assumptions about what already existing town buildings newgrfs do
19:14:31  <Eddi|zuHause> forcing 1) onto existing GRFs would break all GRFs that already use "advanced" stuff
19:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes keeping legacy stuff around leads to worse API design, but we can't really afford breaking the legacy stuff
19:16:42  <andythenorth> don't we have a grf version system? o_O
19:17:22  <nielsm> kind of yes, does anyone remember the process for deprecating old behaviour? :D
19:17:30  <Eddi|zuHause> that would only affect GRFs written after the grf version bump
19:17:36  <nielsm> and also that
19:17:46  <andythenorth> I'm intrigued what will break in grfs if houses use labels
19:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> you still have to interface with the old GRFs
19:18:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: as far as i can tell, house GRFs can already use labels
19:19:40  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: are you sure newgrf houses are affected?
19:19:47  * andythenorth wonders what the actual problem is
19:19:50  <frosch123> i would not be suprised if default houses are different
19:20:44  <andythenorth> the observed behaviour was in FIRS 4 was houses accepting Carbon Steel cargo
19:21:19  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well, my (admittedly vague) understanding is that in the simple case, newgrf houses are just copies of default houses with different graphics, and most house sets wouldn't even touch the cargo stuff
19:21:34  <andythenorth> I have plastered over that by putting Vehicles in slot 6
19:22:10  <andythenorth> I have no idea how this interacts with GS, or any of those things
19:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: GS only look for TownEffect
19:22:46  <andythenorth> do they?
19:22:47  <frosch123> andythenorth: you can also leave slot 6 empty
19:22:56  <andythenorth> what about the ones that require lots of cargos to towns?
19:22:56  <nielsm> is it perhaps possible to change default houses to not use cargo indexes but labels instead? or is there an issue with loading order?
19:22:59  <frosch123> or do you already use all 64? :p
19:23:13  <andythenorth> frosch123 no I don't, I auto-fill them currently
19:23:16  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: GS also have no clue whether cargo gets delivered to houses or industries, the town records both the same way
19:23:33  <frosch123> nielsm: default vehicles have no problems with cargo labels
19:23:41  <andythenorth> so in the case of a GS expecting good, I broke it?
19:23:55  <andythenorth> goods *
19:24:21  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if no cargo has TE_GOODS, then yes
19:24:36  <frosch123> gs should not care, otherwise its their problem
19:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and if cargo has TE_GOODS but not every town has a place that accepts it, then also yes
19:25:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you can have multiple cargos with TE_GOODS
19:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> the GS wouldn't be able to distinguish them
19:25:48  <nielsm> also, food and water in arctic and tropical
19:26:12  <Eddi|zuHause> but you need at least one
19:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and you make everyone's life easier, if you then put that cargo in the original goods slot
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19:28:05  <frosch123> i think the correct soluton is to leave slot 6 empty
19:28:29  <frosch123> those towncargo slots are similar to cargo classes
19:28:54  <frosch123> industry sets are supposed to put cargos in there, that house grfs are supposed to accept
19:29:13  <frosch123> house grfs usually do not care about what cargos exist
19:29:24  <frosch123> they rather want something cargo-classy
19:29:50  <andythenorth> so in the immediate, vehicles is probably ok as a sticking plaster
19:30:01  <frosch123> we can change the behaviour so that houses use the town-effect property of cargos instead of the cargo slots
19:30:18  <andythenorth> that would make sense, but TE Water?
19:30:49  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i find it difficult to believe that you can't find some consumer/household products made from steel
19:30:54  <frosch123> then houses accept all cargos with effect pax/mail/goods/food
19:30:58  <frosch123> not just one, but all
19:31:15  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause every home has a dump truck no?
19:31:17  <frosch123> andythenorth: water is accepted by water towers, not houses
19:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that sounds like a bad idea, because then you break community market industries
19:32:16  <frosch123> what industries?
19:32:51  <andythenorth> off-topic: why is zsh so weird :|
19:32:59  <andythenorth> 20 years of bash, I wasn't ready for change
19:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> industries that are placed in towns, that accept various town effect cargos that shouldn't be sent directly to houses
19:33:32  <frosch123> who uses that?
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19:33:38  <Eddi|zuHause> like, grocery stores and stuff
19:33:49  <frosch123> why do they use town effects?
19:34:04  <frosch123> is that a real thing, or did you make it up?
19:34:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe some versions of FIRS had that, but i lost track... :p
19:34:52  <Eddi|zuHause> like, construction materials and stuff
19:35:33  <andythenorth> seems petroleum fuels
19:35:38  <andythenorth> https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/code_reference.html
19:35:50  <andythenorth> I only set the town effects because I have to
19:35:56  <andythenorth> I don't really understand them
19:36:00  <_dp_> can someone with a mac check if it works on reddit #1?
19:36:07  <_dp_> there are some desync suspicions
19:36:13  <_dp_> 1.10.0
19:36:26  <andythenorth> someone explained TOWNGROWTH_GOODS to me once, but I forget
19:36:53  <andythenorth> Goods sets TOWNGROWTH_WATER
19:36:59  <andythenorth> I'm sure this is all fine?
19:37:10  <frosch123> goods effect is currently unused by default game
19:37:32  <frosch123> it was used in the past, until someone made the subsidy creation more magic
19:38:15  * andythenorth recodes the guard on cargo 6
19:38:27  <frosch123> but we can give it a new meaning "accepted by houses who accept default goods"
19:38:43  <frosch123> andythenorth: isn't it 5?
19:39:09  <andythenorth> it's index 5 in my array
19:40:04  * andythenorth recodes the gaurd on cargo 5
19:41:57  <_dp_> would be nice to have client report some build info to a server
19:42:06  <_dp_> mainly os and patchpack
19:42:33  <andythenorth> _dp_ is there a reported repro, or just random crashing?
19:43:24  <_dp_> you mean for mac desync? ppl keep desyncing, one managed to say he's on mac before dropping out xD
19:44:01  <_dp_> hard to get more info from players that can't stay on the server
19:44:33  <andythenorth> protocol error, connection closed
19:44:49  <andythenorth> do we have a desync log?
19:45:06  <_dp_> *** Player has left the game (wrong company in DoCommand)
19:45:09  <_dp_> o_O
19:45:12  <_dp_> was that you?
19:45:20  <andythenorth> yup
19:45:35  <andythenorth> triggers on 'New Company'
19:45:43  <_dp_> that's a new error xD
19:45:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i smell an endianness issue?
19:46:41  <andythenorth> Network - Game synchronisation failed
19:46:42  <glx> hmm broken endianness detection ?
19:46:44  <andythenorth> in spectator
19:47:14  <_dp_> andythenorth, can you check citymania test server as well?
19:47:27  <_dp_> I may be able to tell more for it..
19:47:56  <_dp_> oh, last one on reddit came as desync
19:48:33  <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/2196cd3cf87f2fa164ad746b87e2686e2b207158 <-- only change I see in this area
19:49:46  <_dp_> interesting, so citymania doesn't desync...
19:50:01  <glx> there's also https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/9959cd9522c939d83744c1eac97582c842ed9907#diff-42f739ee9a4be3f2fe31dacb5ce68182 and https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/0165fe128339733822cf56c6d230de4778bbad39#diff-42f739ee9a4be3f2fe31dacb5ce68182
19:50:04  <_dp_> seems like it's either something in that game or reddit issue
19:50:31  <_dp_> wrong company in DoComman is a very weird issue though
19:53:28  <glx> hmm no the two latest links are also in 1.9.3
19:54:28  <frosch123> glx: the endian stuff is not used in gameplay or network code
19:54:36  <frosch123> only in sound and graphics stuff
19:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause> then the next suspicion is one of the custom server patches
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19:59:02  <frosch123> oh noes, is it companyid cast again?
19:59:33  <_dp_> possibly
19:59:41  <frosch123> is "byte" signed on osx?
19:59:56  <_dp_> I think reddit uses vanilla server with admin port
20:00:11  <_dp_> mb wrong on vanilla part tho
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20:05:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so it might be a DoCommand issued by admin port?
20:05:54  <_dp_> don't think it would report it as an exit reason if it was by admin
20:08:12  <andythenorth> so this cargo flow has an interesting side effect https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
20:08:13  <frosch123> no idea what could be osx specific
20:08:27  <andythenorth> all the chains converge on vehicles, and take a long time to connect
20:08:39  <andythenorth> then suddenly there are a *lot* of vehicles being produced
20:09:02  <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: did you find a way to upgrade station parts without rebuilding the entire station in transport fever?
20:09:05  <frosch123> why suddenly?
20:09:17  <andythenorth> combinatorial production
20:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: admin port might not be the reason for the desync, but might be key to reproducing it reliably
20:09:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i haven't really played in a while
20:10:44  <andythenorth> I could probably fight more into this economy
20:10:48  <andythenorth> but should I? :P
20:13:23  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how do i zoom in the "cargo flow larger" view?
20:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> ctrl+scrollwheel does nothing
20:13:37  <Eddi|zuHause> can't read any of the text
20:13:43  <andythenorth> the larger view is not loading for me in Chrome
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20:13:57  <andythenorth> oh it loads on refresh
20:14:07  <andythenorth> do you see controls here? https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/cargoflow_steeltown.html
20:14:15  <andythenorth> I'm using some javascript 3rd party thing
20:14:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, there's +/reset/- in the lower right
20:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause> not in my original tab, though
20:15:30  <Eddi|zuHause> and also ctrl+scroll works now
20:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the minimap is wrong though
20:16:09  <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't properly follow mouse cursor, has an offset
20:17:26  * andythenorth looks for an update
20:18:04  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how about glass works produces "town supplies"?
20:18:45  <andythenorth> I could split glass
20:18:51  <andythenorth> also the component factory could produce goods
20:19:05  <andythenorth> tyres I can't split
20:19:16  <andythenorth> vehicles engines probably not
20:19:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, tryres and engines don't make sense to split off
20:20:08  <Eddi|zuHause> component factory could provide consumer electronics?
20:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> say, radios, microwaves, fridges etc.?
20:21:00  <andythenorth> yes, it's possible
20:21:20  <andythenorth> I also considered refining aluminium, from aluminia
20:21:26  <andythenorth> instead of importing it
20:21:35  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i also always need to reload that page
20:21:47  <frosch123> for some magical reason the js only works the second time
20:21:57  <andythenorth> I've just played this economy through, and it _might_ be finished
20:22:12  <andythenorth> I did try inserting tin -> tinplate -> cannery
20:22:17  <frosch123> does that mean you are going to delete it?
20:22:21  <andythenorth> but I got bored learning about metal food packaging
20:22:25  <andythenorth> frosch123 not until v6
20:22:37  <frosch123> i think i lost count
20:22:43  <andythenorth> v4
20:22:48  <frosch123> ok :)
20:23:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not even sure if FIRS was already v1 when i last played
20:23:22  <andythenorth> those were less good versions :P
20:23:52  <andythenorth> https://github.com/ariutta/svg-pan-zoom/issues/354
20:37:24  <andythenorth> if anybody wants to learn about tinplate :P https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinplate
20:37:29  <andythenorth> I'd try to include it somehow
20:37:37  <andythenorth> or an equivalent
20:38:01  <andythenorth> https://packaging.arcelormittal.com/repository2/Unassigned/ArcelorMittal%20Packaging%20-%20product%20catalogue.pdf
20:38:49  <frosch123> how about a bronce-age economy? after 100 years all industries announce bronce-age-collapse and close
20:40:39  <andythenorth> dwarf fortress economy?
20:46:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure the bronze age lasted longer than 100 years before the collapse :p
20:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause> also, we don't have any BCE dates
20:49:16  <andythenorth> so are tin cans mostly made of steel or aluminium?
20:49:23  <andythenorth> I cannot find a convincing answer
20:49:39  <andythenorth> the trade associations for each material have won at SEO for their term :P
20:51:02  <andythenorth> if I believed their pages, all tin cans are and should only be made of steel
20:51:07  <andythenorth> or aluminium, respectively
20:52:12  <frosch123> here it says that 70% of all tin-plated steel is used for cans
20:52:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there's probably a difference between drinking cans and food cans
20:52:50  <frosch123> sounds plausible
20:54:23  <andythenorth> I've got vehicles and construction steel featured
20:54:32  <andythenorth> but not consumer goods or packaging steel
20:55:31  <frosch123> so you can deliver fresh food and canned food (=goods)
20:55:39  <andythenorth> o_O
20:55:59  <andythenorth> I was saving that for a future city economy
20:56:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think canned food should be something other than te_food
20:56:12  <andythenorth> the city economy may never happen :)
20:56:17  <andythenorth> what goes in the cans?
20:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that brings us right back to the original problem
20:56:27  <frosch123> pineapples?
20:56:30  <andythenorth> yum
20:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause> of confusing people what constitutes "goods"
20:57:20  <frosch123> andythenorth: pineapple is a standard placeholder term: dies, das, ananas
20:57:27  <andythenorth> ha
20:57:42  <andythenorth> I think my German teacher taught us that once
20:57:55  <frosch123> really? impressive
20:57:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i've heard that before
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20:58:47  <andythenorth> it's said in a rhyming way, no?
20:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause> there's this weird section of passive vocabulary, where you can discern the meaning of a phrase you've never heard before
20:58:54  <frosch123> yes
20:59:11  <Eddi|zuHause> because it is immediately intuitively clear
21:01:36  <andythenorth> hmm steel fasteners?
21:01:43  <andythenorth> (nuts and bolts mostly)
21:02:00  <Eddi|zuHause> construction steel?
21:02:35  <frosch123> pressing irons?
21:02:37  <nielsm> extruded steel?
21:02:45  <nielsm> (as a catch-all term)
21:03:23  <andythenorth> there's a whole world of steel related terms :)
21:03:32  <andythenorth> and some overlap or mean more than one thing :)
21:03:35  <andythenorth> it's fascinating
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21:54:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/JvxQY
22:00:20  <andythenorth> could work :)
22:00:23  <andythenorth> also bed
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22:06:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/JvxQK
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23:49:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8063: Fix #8055: Always allow building any available roadtypes, even if there are no road vehicles available https://git.io/Jvxda

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