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Log for #openttd on 9th April 2020:
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06:59:23  <andythenorth> o/
07:12:58  <peter1138> Yes.
07:13:29  <peter1138> I need to either a) stop eating salad or b) go to the supermarket :/
07:14:13  <peter1138> c) just play games
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07:16:39  <andythenorth> I went to Tesco last week
07:17:03  <andythenorth> it was still there
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07:21:25  <peter1138> It's scary now though.
07:23:44  <andythenorth> because it's outside?
07:24:23  <peter1138> No, because it's full of other people who don't understand rules.
07:24:50  <andythenorth> rules were strongly in effect at Tesco
07:25:14  <andythenorth> obviously quite weird
07:26:45  <peter1138> They are there, but it only takes a few people ignoring them to ruin it all.
07:26:55  <peter1138> And the staff themselves ignore them.
07:27:39  <peter1138> I wonder if they think the "social" part of "social distancing" only applies to their specific socializing activities, not everything...
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09:25:42  <Samu> hi
10:05:55  <Wolf01> <peter1138> I wonder if they think the "social" part of "social distancing" only applies to their specific socializing activities, not everything... <- I wonder why people use the face mask while driving alone
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10:23:55  <Flygon> Wait.
10:23:57  <Flygon> Wait wait wait.
10:24:00  <Flygon> peter1138
10:24:04  <Flygon> There's an option other than c?
10:24:36  <Wolf01> Smart(?)working
10:24:51  <peter1138> Flygon, my employer would hope so.
10:27:01  <andythenorth> FML
10:27:08  <andythenorth> my employer is right here *at* home
10:27:15  <andythenorth> frigging nightmare
10:27:27  <Wolf01> My employer is trying to waste some time... today is "why don't you come here and grab this smartphone to evaluate this application?" I need to do 40km to get there, for a fucking smartphone, for an app which could give me some ideas to develop our one.
10:27:59  <Wolf01> Only because I don't have android/iphone
10:28:21  <peter1138> Emulate ;)
10:28:41  <peter1138> Time-wise, setting that up would probably take longer.
10:28:44  <Wolf01> Ahahah I tried, bluestacks doesn't get well with hyper-v enabled
10:29:23  <peter1138> Ah yes, the weird "ONLY I CAN CONTROL THIS" bollocks that happens :/
10:29:35  <Wolf01> I bet the next step is "now that you have an android smartphone, use whatsapp"
10:30:15  <Wolf01> I'm avoiding to buy a non-windows smartphone exactly to not use whatsapp
10:40:50  <milek7> I think android sdk emulator does use hyper-v
10:42:14  <milek7> 'VM acceleration on Windows can use one of two hypervisors: the Intel Hardware Accelerated Execution Manager (HAXM) or the Windows Hypervisor Platform (WHPX).'
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12:10:28  <peter1138> STOP. SALAD TIME!
12:25:28  <andythenorth> oof
12:25:32  <andythenorth> I forgot to lunch
12:25:42  <andythenorth> the problem is that every morning I eat a packet of cookies
12:28:54  <peter1138> Oof
12:53:58  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> the problem is that every morning I eat a packet of cookies <- how big? We have packets with 2, 3, 6, 10, ~50 cookies here :P
12:54:09  <andythenorth> about 10
12:54:25  <andythenorth> hmm, I should stop trying to rss and json ld
12:54:29  <andythenorth> at least until I have lunch
12:58:02  <Flygon> Now I just want to buy a bag of 100 Biscuits and inevitably suffer the Acid Reflux and Sugar Headache that would result.
12:58:08  <Flygon> Thanks #openttd :D
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13:01:03  <peter1138> Sugar headache? Is that a thing?
13:01:24  <peter1138> I get sugar head, but that's just craving more sugar...
13:01:38  <peter1138> Probably good that I didn't order lots of beer for this weekend...
13:01:56  * andythenorth has small pasta tubes with cheese
13:02:07  <peter1138> Delightful.
13:02:13  <peter1138> I'm running low on salad again.
13:02:21  <peter1138> Might need to do another essentials shop.
13:02:50  <peter1138> Should've paid more attention and just planted everything I need, eh?
13:03:17  <andythenorth> oof :)
13:03:21  <Flygon> peter1138: You clearly haven't binged as hard as I do. :D
13:03:22  <peter1138> Malt, hops, barley...
13:03:38  <peter1138> Flygon, I've often binged such that I cannot move.
13:03:42  <Flygon> ...
13:03:44  <peter1138> In my past life, at least.
13:03:48  <Flygon> Okay, we just have different body chemistry then. :D
13:04:05  <Flygon> The Sugar Headaches have happened my whole life.
13:04:13  <Flygon> I got worried at one point and thought I was diabetic.
13:04:24  <peter1138> I mean... I'd be worried, I've never heard of them before.
13:04:29  <Flygon> But... no, my body just overreacts to Sugar. I think it's a blood pressure thing. :D
13:04:45  <Flygon> It's a bit like.
13:05:02  <Flygon> If I drink a Soft Drink that has Sugar in it, my brain gets overwhelmed and I essentially become drunk.
13:05:23  <Flygon> But if I eat Chocolate in Solid Form, doesn't get digested so quickly as to overwhelm my body.
13:05:33  <Flygon> I think my body just overprocesses Sugar way too quickly. O_o"
13:05:41  <peter1138> What about processed food, like bread?
13:05:46  <Flygon> It's happened my whole life.
13:05:49  <Flygon> Bread? Bread's fine.
13:06:22  <Flygon> I can and will overbinge on carbs if given the chance tho. Been trying to break that habit.
13:06:27  <peter1138> Sugary drinks are of course known for making everyone hyperactive, but that's not a headache.
13:06:48  <Flygon> Oh, the headache comes in combo with my brain being unable to concentrate and go 160mph. :D
13:07:09  <Flygon> Then again, caffeine makes me feel tired AND unable to sleep so. :D
13:07:24  <Flygon> I have absolutely no idea how normal people enjoy life. :D
13:08:50  <peter1138> Anyway, I can order a fruit & veg box from random farm shops, at vast expensive.
13:09:00  <peter1138> But nobody seems to offer a fruit & salad box :/
13:09:32  <peter1138> I'm not interested in tons of root vegetables...
13:09:56  <Flygon> Ouff.
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13:55:52  <Samu> fast food
13:56:08  <Samu> it's food, and want to be transported fast!
14:03:00  <Samu> i wonder if i can make the pathfinder build 2 tile sized aqueducts
14:03:38  <Samu> 3, it can
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15:28:23  <Wolf01> <Flygon> If I drink a Soft Drink that has Sugar in it, my brain gets overwhelmed and I essentially become drunk. <- same here, me, my mother, and my sister all have problems with sugar, I become drunk, they start to sweat and shiver at the same time
15:29:25  <Wolf01> And I'm not talking about soft drinks, but cakes and other food full of sugar
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15:46:43  <luaduck> stupid question: does the `clients` command have support for listing IPv6 addresses?
15:47:18  <luaduck> I'm connected via IPv6 and I seem to have been given the address of 172.25.0.1, which is obviously a private address
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16:32:14  <Samu> i'm listening to sad music again https://www.rtp.pt/play/p287/e463017/argonauta
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16:38:23  <Samu> wow im listening to music from 1978, I'm really sad
16:42:46  <peter1138> What's... the problem with that?
16:50:53  <arikover> Sad memories about Jimmy Carter maybe?
17:01:16  <andythenorth> well
17:01:24  <andythenorth> we should OpenTTD or something
17:05:30  <Samu> Apparently I can't make easy 2-tile wide aqueducts
17:07:44  * andythenorth closes zoom, must be the end of the working week
17:07:47  <andythenorth> and whereby
17:19:18  <Wolf01> I'll have at least 2 other meetings tomorrow... also I must finish the project by one week ago
17:24:19  <_dp_> is there any good solution to oil rig infestation?
17:24:20  <_dp_> https://i.imgur.com/FptgN6G.png
17:25:13  <nielsm> only allowing one of each industry per town?
17:26:05  <nielsm> make industry density founding-only and have a GS create industries instead?
17:26:08  <FLHerne> You could minimize the max distance from the edge
17:26:15  <FLHerne> (min allowed seems to be 12 tiles)
17:26:23  <nielsm> make a newgrf that override oil rig placement rules and prevents them from being too close?
17:26:33  <peter1138> Let's do an OpenTTD coding livestream!
17:26:39  <FLHerne> Then you only have a border of oil rigs, rather than the whole map
17:26:41  <peter1138> (Just, not me)
17:26:46  <_dp_> well, I can disable oil rigs altogether but kinda wanted to have them just not in such ridicullous quantities
17:27:11  <FLHerne> Didn't Pikka do a pixelling livestream once?
17:29:09  <_dp_> and don't want to have newgrf either
17:31:58  <nielsm> you could also make a GS that deletes oil rigs spawning too close to others...
17:32:16  <_dp_> yeah, I guess
17:32:32  <_dp_> just weird to see that something that silly needs a gs
17:33:31  <nielsm> remember the original game always had the max one of each industry per town restriction, probably in part to avoid that kind of industry overload issues
17:39:01  <_dp_> hm, I can probably enable 1 ind per town after map generation...
17:39:13  <nielsm> that might work
17:39:30  <_dp_> except it would affect funded industries as well :p
17:39:59  <_dp_> disable it for a second when someone funds industry xDDD
17:40:46  <nielsm> toggle the setting on for 3 months a year, off rest of the year
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18:15:03  <andythenorth> so I tried adding more industries + cargos to this https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
18:15:09  <andythenorth> and concluded there are enough already
18:15:22  <andythenorth> so now I just need to draw all the industry graphics and crap
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18:55:30  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: “vehicle engines” and “vehicle parts” as separate cargoes?
18:55:53  <snail_UES_> “stainless steel” vs “steel sheet” vs “steel wire rod”?
18:56:07  <snail_UES_> talk about micromanaging… I’m not going back and edit my set for this :p
18:58:16  <andythenorth> crates
19:04:58  <Samu> yes! I made it, pathfinder can now build 2-tile wide aqueducts
19:05:13  <Samu> requires too many checks
19:05:22  <Samu> but it was possible
19:25:51  <Samu> I wonder, about aqueducts, do I really need to create a list of bridge types
19:25:57  <Samu> there's only 1 type of aqueduct
19:26:06  <Samu> it would simplify code
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20:23:52  <Samu> there's some tile costs that I don't quite understand. I'm adapting them from a rail pathfinder to a canal pathfinder
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21:14:07  <mcbanhas> Hello everyone
21:15:01  <mcbanhas> I've recently made a forum thread on the subject of creating a manual of style for OpenTTD. Let me know your opinion on the matter: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=86891&p=1230658#p1230658
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21:34:36  <FLHerne> mcbanhas: At a quick look, I like all your proposals
21:35:28  <FLHerne> Except the example proposed text for the signal button, which I found hard to read
21:35:52  <FLHerne> (not that the current version is ideal; it might just mean that button does too much :P)
21:44:20  <mcbanhas> Yeah I am aware
21:44:54  <mcbanhas> It's an overly long tooltip that sadly requires a lenghty description for now
21:50:06  <mcbanhas> Ideally, it would be nice for someone to implement dynamic key shortcuts so we could include them in the tooltips too, I left a suggestion for this under issue #7873, but it will take some time until someone picks it up, if ever...
22:04:39  <supermop_Home> can the  manual of style be a bound volume
22:06:23  <supermop_Home> also can it follow the ridiculous new Yorker style guide with umlauts over every compounded vowel?
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22:07:27  <supermop_Home> for some reason among my friends / classmates in the early 00s it was trendy to keep the big orange Chicago manual of style on your shelf
22:08:07  <mcbanhas> lol, i guess you can print it if you want to :)
22:08:27  <mcbanhas> Manuals of style DO come in handy from time to time
22:08:59  <supermop_Home> i got suckered into buying the nice MTA and British Rail graphic Standards books
22:09:10  <supermop_Home> almost bought the NASA one too
22:09:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #7744: Draft Feature: OpenGL video driver https://git.io/JeO8B
22:10:14  <supermop_Home> https://standardsmanual.com/products/nyctacompactedition
22:10:18  <mcbanhas> if you're into fonts and design, those things are great for inspiration
22:10:22  <supermop_Home> one of these but for OpenTTD
22:11:05  <supermop_Home> actually it would be nice to codify the graphic style - both Simon Foster and OGFX+
22:11:32  <mcbanhas> hnnng that Helvetica cover
22:11:51  <mcbanhas> I love that font so much I'd print my wedding invitations on it
22:12:37  <mcbanhas> Well, we don't even have official fonts at the moment
22:15:41  <FLHerne> mcbanhas: Are the little pixelly ones not official? :P
22:16:04  <mcbanhas> are they in the package?
22:16:05  <supermop_Home> i don't have proper training in copyediting so can't be of much help but i am excited by the idea of a manual of style
22:16:19  <supermop_Home> they are sprites in the baseset i think?
22:16:33  <supermop_Home> it's not a full font
22:16:38  <mcbanhas> oh that one
22:16:46  <supermop_Home> but it does have glyphs for trains etc!
22:17:15  <supermop_Home> i tried to use rail alphabet as my font in game
22:17:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Goury opened issue #8070: Check Online Content once was a useful feature, not anymore https://git.io/Jvpao
22:17:35  <supermop_Home> but couldn't get it so went for a clone of Transport
22:18:20  <mcbanhas> yeah but it would be nice to adapt an official font at some point. there's no shortage of freely licensed fonts around
22:19:05  <supermop_Home> unfortunately that sounds like a huge bike shedding risk in an open source software group
22:19:44  <supermop_Home> once andy gets work of this there will go a few hundred hours of irc discussions
22:20:33  <mcbanhas> you mean picking a font?
22:20:53  <supermop_Home> "best official font for OpenTTD" sounds like both his dream and nightmare
22:21:27  <FLHerne> Oh, of course there's a low-res pixel font in the official logo
22:21:45  <supermop_Home> and for the rest of us amateur graphic designers here
22:22:05  <FLHerne> (all six different glyphs of it)
22:22:19  <FLHerne> And the $ sign :P
22:22:54  <supermop_Home> that's really more of a logotype than a typeface :)
22:23:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8070: Check Online Content displays too much https://git.io/Jvpao
22:23:48  <supermop_Home> nice work on retitling issue LordAro
22:23:59  <LordAro> it's still not very useful
22:24:06  <supermop_Home> some of that decade old garbage in there is mine!
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22:24:33  <andythenorth> 'lye' or 'caustic soda'?
22:24:42  <supermop_Home> oh god i summoned him
22:24:44  <LordAro> and frankly there have been many issues of very similar sort that have just been closed in the past
22:24:45  <mcbanhas> Hahah well you be surprised how much of a blessing BaNaNas is compired to what they do at the OpenXcom community
22:24:55  <andythenorth> NaOH
22:25:05  <supermop_Home> hopefully he wont check the logs.....
22:25:37  <andythenorth> where's the clone of Transport?
22:25:59  <andythenorth> there is a whole history around that, I considered getting licensed for it
22:26:07  <supermop_Home> too late
22:26:14  <supermop_Home> he's onto us
22:26:27  <mcbanhas> I'm all down for font talking
22:26:30  <supermop_Home> andythenorth a bit dodgy
22:26:31  <andythenorth> I really wanted to get licensed for TfL Johnston as well
22:26:42  <supermop_Home> oh yeah tell me about it
22:26:57  <mcbanhas> which font you guys talking about actually?
22:27:31  <supermop_Home> Transport is Calverts font for UK motorways
22:28:09  <supermop_Home> Rail Alphabet is hers for BR station signage
22:28:28  <supermop_Home> both good high legibility humanist san serifs
22:28:31  <mcbanhas> oh i see, but I don't see this fitting the game per se
22:28:49  <mcbanhas> this type of font is good for signage, not so much for descriptions and such
22:29:10  <supermop_Home> better for titles etc
22:29:44  <mcbanhas> Moreover a pixelart font would suit the graphics better
22:29:57  <supermop_Home> Johnston maybe better for body text
22:30:10  <andythenorth> I just use the original baseset font
22:30:15  <andythenorth> complete with reversed '
22:30:32  <andythenorth> anyway I need to go to sleep
22:30:36  <supermop_Home> mcbanhas its too late you've got font nerds talking we wont have any further actually productive discourse
22:30:42  <andythenorth> but 'lye' or 'caustic soda'?
22:30:46  <supermop_Home> lye
22:30:48  <andythenorth> I already have 'soda ash'
22:30:50  <supermop_Home> idk why
22:30:53  <mcbanhas> no, I like talking fonts, no worries
22:30:53  <andythenorth> lye is more retro and cool
22:30:59  <supermop_Home> more concise
22:31:02  <supermop_Home> sounds better
22:31:05  <andythenorth> cargo label: LYE_ or NAOH?
22:31:09  * andythenorth used LYE_
22:31:31  <supermop_Home> sounds good to me
22:32:08  <andythenorth> trying to figure out if I should insert steel beams and crap to the end cargos https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/firs-v4-previews/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
22:32:20  <supermop_Home> yeah idk
22:32:22  <supermop_Home> maybe
22:32:30  <andythenorth> for strict realism, it needs: steel sections, tinplate, and steel bar
22:32:36  <andythenorth> but they don't add any gameplay
22:32:45  <supermop_Home> if you are going into the weeds on steel making anyway, why not?
22:33:02  <supermop_Home> model railroads are also pretty poor on gameplay
22:33:14  <supermop_Home> but its nice to see the different sorts of wagons
22:33:35  <andythenorth> I don't know where to send steel sections, the only destination is wharf
22:33:47  <snail_UES_> supermop_Home: I doubt any train GRF author would make specific graphics for all those cargoes
22:33:49  <supermop_Home> build skyscrapers in towns>
22:34:02  <supermop_Home> snail_UES_ i can think of one
22:34:14  <snail_UES_> especially because Andy has the tendency of changing his cargoes every other month :D
22:34:16  <mcbanhas> Man everytime I look at a FIRS diagram I feel like I might as well be looking at the sephirotic system from the kabbalah
22:34:16  <andythenorth> I'm going to repeat graphics
22:34:22  * mcbanhas plays vanilla industries
22:34:35  <andythenorth> snail_UES_ you know I've deleted Extreme?
22:34:41  <andythenorth> and all those cargos?
22:34:53  <snail_UES_> beautiful… so I made work for nothing :p
22:35:02  <snail_UES_> what are the cargoes you deleted? is there a list?
22:35:06  <andythenorth> well FIRS v3 still on bananas
22:35:12  <supermop_Home> andythenorth using Kabbalahistic graphic standards might be nice for FIRS docs
22:35:19  <andythenorth> I think players will continue using it
22:35:25  <andythenorth> Extreme seems to be liked
22:35:34  <snail_UES_> oh, so why did you kill it?
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22:35:46  <andythenorth> it makes no sense
22:36:46  <andythenorth> I think this diagram says all http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/3.0.9/docs/html/economies.html#extreme
22:38:53  <mcbanhas> lol holy shit
22:39:48  <andythenorth> supermop_Home turbine factory :P
22:39:56  <andythenorth> dunno what it accepts or produces, but sounds cool
22:40:52  <andythenorth> also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_steel
22:42:36  <FLHerne> andythenorth: The madness is the point!
22:43:20  <FLHerne> Also, dot's awful layouting makes it look worse than it is :P
22:43:32  <andythenorth> I was hoping I could do a new Extreme focussed on city cargos
22:43:39  <andythenorth> but I tried it, was soooooo very dull
22:43:45  <andythenorth> delivering to towns is the pox
22:43:52  <andythenorth> it's such non-gameplay
22:44:13  <andythenorth> towns are frigging awful to build in
22:44:19  <andythenorth> and they never accept anything useful
22:44:27  <andythenorth> and it's all just black hole crap
22:44:28  <FLHerne> Right
22:44:50  <andythenorth> I did have sewage sludge on the list though
22:45:07  <andythenorth> and hoovers
22:45:41  <mcbanhas> lol literally carrying shit on your trains
22:46:13  <FLHerne> For model-railway games, "focused on x" is less than ideal
22:47:08  <andythenorth> is it the broadest range of cargos wanted?  Or the most detailed?  (subtle difference)
22:47:19  <FLHerne> Temperate Basic and Extreme both let you have a world and traffic distribution that looks reasonable
22:47:28  <andythenorth> Steeltown has tended towards detailed, but you don't get livestock wagons :P
22:47:40  <FLHerne> Former
22:47:47  <FLHerne> Yes, that's the problem
22:47:59  * andythenorth considers a Kaolin Clay economy
22:48:13  <FLHerne> A 64^2 map with every Steeltown industry would be pretty cool
22:48:19  <andythenorth> http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/43597/SB002I-DJ-Models-JIA-TIGER-China-Clay-Wagon-number-33-70-9382061
22:48:34  <andythenorth> I play Steeltown on 256x512
22:48:41  <andythenorth> you get to do the whole chain twice
22:48:43  <FLHerne> Basically modelling the Scunthorpe internal network or something
22:48:49  <andythenorth> South Wales
22:48:55  <andythenorth> PIttsburgh
22:48:58  <andythenorth> Great Lakes
22:49:12  <FLHerne> But on a big map, it's just weird that there are metalworking industries and nothing else
22:49:43  <andythenorth> someone will probably fork V4 to put Extreme back
22:49:51  <andythenorth> or there's Oz Industries
22:49:57  <FLHerne> Even South Wales isn't *that* monocultural
22:49:59  <andythenorth> clay slurry https://www.dapol.co.uk/2f-027-008-n-gauge-silver-bullet-ermewa-33-87-789-8013-0-2157
22:50:04  <andythenorth> clay powder
22:50:06  <andythenorth> ball clay
22:50:18  <andythenorth> hmm, that's probably the limit
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22:56:35  <andythenorth> hmm fasteners https://elceegroup.com/fasteners/
22:56:40  <andythenorth> AKA nuts and bolts
22:57:06  <supermop_Home> andythenorth turbines more of a special shop
22:57:27  <andythenorth> somehow fasteners don't interest
22:57:38  <andythenorth> neither forgings, castings, or weldged subassemblies
22:57:38  <supermop_Home> hilti?
22:57:46  <supermop_Home> Lichtenstein economy
22:58:06  <andythenorth> lol
22:58:23  <andythenorth> steel beams just overlap with pipe / tube
22:58:40  <andythenorth> I've done rebar rather than generic bar
22:58:49  <andythenorth> steel sheet covers plate
22:58:57  <andythenorth> I tried tinplate, but it's ugly to fit in
23:00:44  <andythenorth> tin is also a minority metal, relatively low production
23:02:18  <mcbanhas> is there anything similar to FIRS for toyland? :D
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23:13:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jpsouzamatos opened issue #8071: Vehicles renewing and new technologies https://git.io/Jvpr8
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23:26:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8071: Vehicles renewing and new technologies https://git.io/Jvpr8
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