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Log for #openttd on 11th April 2020:
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05:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause> so, i got this game "endzone" which is sorta like banished, but with radiation and post apocalyptic ruins and stuff
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06:35:04  <andythenorth> o/
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07:22:52  <peter1138> Yeah
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07:28:12  <andythenorth> oof
07:28:18  <andythenorth> I have broken my ability to count
07:28:24  <andythenorth> I now start enumerating at 0
07:28:34  <andythenorth> due to programming
07:28:53  <andythenorth> "how many chairs at this table?"
07:28:58  <Wolf01> That's right, is there any other way?
07:29:03  <andythenorth> 0, 1, 2
07:29:17  <andythenorth> then count the length of the list
07:29:28  <Wolf01> Wait, don't confuse array.length with array index
07:29:40  <andythenorth> I know, that's my point :(
07:29:43  <andythenorth> I am broken
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07:30:13  <debdog> common programmer's illness
07:31:32  <Wolf01> In italian "what do you need?" is "cosa ti serve?", I always write "server".
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08:04:05  <andythenorth> hmm industry sizes
08:04:36  <andythenorth> nielsm remember your industry layout patch? :)
08:10:08  <nielsm> yes
08:13:26  <peter1138> I don't remember, I don't recall
08:13:32  <peter1138> I got no memory, of anything at all
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08:22:04  <andythenorth> nielsm was it stuck on the nml format? o_O
08:22:56  <nielsm> no actually reworking it entirely to be callback instead of table based
08:22:59  <nielsm> I think
08:23:42  <andythenorth> I had a complementary idea
08:23:48  <andythenorth> allow attaching objects to an industry
08:23:56  <andythenorth> let the player do it
08:24:15  <andythenorth> not sure if it's stupid or not :)
08:37:12  <Wolf01> Mashinki did it
08:37:47  <Wolf01> But to station attached to the industry to boost the production and storage
08:38:16  <Wolf01> A sort of useful non station tiles, instead of eyecandy
08:39:37  <andythenorth> I want slightly larger industries
08:43:27  <andythenorth> maybe I just do 5x5
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09:19:16  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/content-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of content-api https://git.io/Jvi4X
09:19:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/content-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the content_server rewritten in Python https://git.io/Jvi4P
09:20:02  <TrueBrain> these two are no longer Draft PRs :)
09:21:27  <peter1138> I... just discovered a bottle of Calvados that I forgot about.
09:21:31  <peter1138> So, er... is it too early?
09:21:35  <TrueBrain> yes
09:21:38  <TrueBrain> you have a problem
09:21:39  <TrueBrain> seek help
09:21:49  <peter1138> :(
09:22:14  <peter1138> Of course, I don't really.
09:22:25  <peter1138> If I actually had such a problem, I wouldn't be asking :p
09:22:25  <TrueBrain> :D
09:22:37  <TrueBrain> that is what a drunk would say :P
09:22:39  <TrueBrain> :D :D
09:22:45  <peter1138> I only have a problem with eating currently, heh.
09:22:54  <TrueBrain> too much or too little? :)
09:23:03  <peter1138> Too much.
09:23:20  <TrueBrain> I have a problem with excersice .. this working from home crap is crap
09:23:25  <peter1138> Yeah
09:24:12  <TrueBrain> okay, so how am I going to deploy this on AWS .. euhm ..
09:24:19  <TrueBrain> that requires me to know how things currently work, I guss
09:33:39  <andythenorth> \o/
09:33:57  * andythenorth has an exercise bike
09:34:00  <andythenorth> it's sooooo boring
09:35:21  <peter1138> Somewhat
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09:44:04  <TrueBrain> BaNaNaS uses a lot of domains .. and not everything makes sense :D
09:44:17  <TrueBrain> "content.openttd.org" is used for the ingame client over our custom port
09:44:36  <TrueBrain> "binaries.openttd.org" is used to try to fetch HTTP downloads, which is redirected to what-ever the server tells it
09:45:02  <TrueBrain> and currently that means that a single URL in that last domain is used for a dynamic piece, and the rest is used for static data
09:45:10  <TrueBrain> I think
09:46:44  <TrueBrain> ah, and it is also used by NSIS
09:47:23  <nielsm> it's kind of a problem having to support old versions of ottd that can't be flexible
09:48:01  <TrueBrain> it is always difficult, yes :)
09:48:15  <TrueBrain> owh, and binaries also redirects people who have old download URLs
09:48:55  <TrueBrain> okay, this is complicated :D
09:50:12  <TrueBrain> I want a tablet I can draw on :(
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09:59:41  <TrueBrain> owh, and we of course also have grfsearch .. forgot about that ..
10:00:06  <TrueBrain> pretty sure I did not deploy opengfx-0.6.0 correctly for NSIS :)
10:00:25  <TrueBrain> that is to say, an rsync is no longer happening which I asusmed was :P
10:17:27  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buynov commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
10:36:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buynov commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
10:36:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
10:37:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
10:53:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buynov commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
10:56:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
11:01:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
11:07:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] tomstorey commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
11:11:35  <TrueBrain> okay ... after some debugging, binaries.openttd.org never serves any files, only redirects people to other places. I can work with that :)
11:18:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buynov commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
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11:33:44  <nielsm> I'd rather have larger town buildings first
11:35:43  <nielsm> otoh that's also dependent on someone being willing to make new buildings...
11:36:55  <TrueBrain> hmm .. am I going to serve BaNaNaS files from cdn.openttd.org, or shall I name it cdn.bananas.openttd.org .. hmm
11:37:11  <LordAro> or bananas.cdn.openttd.org !
11:37:29  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is what I needed, more options :P
11:37:46  <TrueBrain> okay, its own subdomain means its own S3 bucket, and that makes things a bit easier
11:38:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buynov commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
11:38:13  <andythenorth> nielsm rescale the game? o_O
11:38:22  <nielsm> andythenorth yeah
11:38:32  <andythenorth> I usually play 256x512
11:38:33  <andythenorth> or so
11:38:41  <nielsm> larger town buildings and larger road distance in towns
11:38:50  <andythenorth> I would like slightly larger industries
11:38:50  <nielsm> and larger catchment areas
11:38:58  <andythenorth> and yes, slightly larger town spacing
11:39:05  <andythenorth> and slightly larger station catchments
11:39:13  <andythenorth> only 1-2 tiles
11:39:32  <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/b423809b41ad037a91fd4eb4f6162c2e <- too complex :P
11:39:33  <andythenorth> I would like to be able to build routes through and inside towns
11:40:07  <andythenorth> eddi's town spacing patch is pretty good
11:40:13  <nielsm> "Station catchment areas: Original, Improved, Improved 150%, Improved 200%, Improved 300%" like that?
11:41:25  <andythenorth> something like that
11:42:09  <nielsm> maybe "Varied" rather than "Improved"
11:42:31  <TrueBrain> does NSIS support https ... hmmm
11:42:31  <nielsm> upgrading this setting https://0x0.st/iSEl.png
11:42:33  <_dp_> I'd like catchment 5 for everything (like original but 5)
11:42:56  <nielsm> newgrf catchment areas? D:
11:43:00  <TrueBrain> "This built-in plugin allows you to download files via HTTP (but not HTTPS)."
11:43:55  <nielsm> ugh I really don't like aqueducts, their thinness irks me
11:44:12  <andythenorth> situations like https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9638/very_station_1.png
11:44:17  <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9639/very_station_2.png
11:44:32  <andythenorth> aqueducts are quite wrong visually yes :)
11:45:05  <_dp_> nielsm, sometimes I feel that "newgrf" in this community is a synonym of "/dev/null"
11:45:26  <andythenorth> nothing wrong with newgrf catchments :P
11:45:26  <andythenorth> makes sense
11:45:30  <andythenorth> let the station tile do it :P
11:45:34  <nielsm> _dp_ yes I don't think catchment area is suited for newgrf either, hence the D:
11:45:36  <andythenorth> oh, but nfo stations :(
11:45:39  <nielsm> rather than :D
11:46:06  <andythenorth> _dp_ I find that 'GS' is '/dev/null' here
11:46:15  <andythenorth> YMMV etc
11:46:33  <andythenorth> one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist
11:47:09  <nielsm> so, that macos 10.12 crash bug seems to relate to one of the two changes
11:47:19  <nielsm> either the build environment or the colourspace
11:47:28  <TrueBrain> see if there is a nightly with 1 of the 2?
11:47:37  <nielsm> was just about to suggest that
11:47:44  <TrueBrain> :D
11:48:01  <TrueBrain> nightlies don't have a retention atm, so I think the archive is pretty huge atm :P
11:48:14  <andythenorth> this is nice and tidy no? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9640/very_station_3.png
11:48:32  <TrueBrain> all these images ... I just see trains en stuff
11:48:38  <TrueBrain> no clue where to focus my attention to
11:48:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
11:49:03  <andythenorth> TrueBrain it's a mess eh :D
11:49:24  <TrueBrain> no, it is just a random screenshot without context to me :D
11:49:42  <nielsm> andythenorth makes me think of https://voxeltycoon.xyz/ again
11:49:43  <andythenorth> I should do one upside down, see if you notice
11:50:03  <andythenorth> guess the date https://voxeltycoon.xyz/devlog/anticheat
11:50:25  <TrueBrain> owh, I forgot, AWS doesn't support IPv6 on its NLB .. euh .. how am I going to do this .... hmmmm
11:50:26  <nielsm> specifically the building conveyer belts to move cargo between industries and stations
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11:51:01  <andythenorth> we do need a conveyor transport type
11:51:08  <andythenorth> then we can defeat F!
11:51:16  <nielsm> conveyers and pipes!
11:51:19  <andythenorth> imagine
11:51:25  <nielsm> and power lines!
11:51:26  <andythenorth> how much spec docs there would have to be
11:51:32  <_dp_> andythenorth, my main issue with newgrfs is that they're too complicated for new players
11:51:49  <_dp_> so if I'm making a server for new players newgrfs are completely out of question
11:51:53  <andythenorth> emoji
11:51:58  <andythenorth> I would tend to agree
11:52:07  <andythenorth> I didn't use newgrf for first couple of years playing
11:52:10  <_dp_> especially for stupid stuff like changing settings
11:52:13  <andythenorth> I thought they were corrupt hax
11:52:28  <glx> about #8066, could it be a missing respondsToSelector ?
11:52:29  <andythenorth> maybe those were different days
11:55:14  <michi_cc> glx: The colour space stuff at least is supported from 10.6 onwards, so not relevant for 10.12.
11:56:53  <michi_cc> Even if our video driver messages currently lie because they mention 10.4 compatibility, but #8078 updates that message as well.
12:01:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/Jvh6S
12:02:48  <nielsm> so is water depth a good feature after all? :)
12:07:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] buynov commented on issue #8066: 1.10.0 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B
12:07:33  <nielsm> okay that confirms it is #8023 causing the bug
12:07:39  <LordAro> yay!
12:08:09  <milek7> https://milek7.pl/openttd-wasm/
12:08:18  <milek7> updated to 1.10
12:08:43  <nielsm> nice
12:09:20  <glx> at least it's something we can change, #8028 would have been more problematic
12:09:50  <nielsm> ugh the music synth sounds terrible for me milek7, it isn't popping or such but it seems to be warbling
12:10:38  <TrueBrain> nielsm: well, that is the least worse outcome of the OSX issue tbh .. as that means it is our code, which we can fix :D
12:11:25  <TrueBrain> nielsm: btw, I contacted a company in the Netherlands to advise how an Open Source community should from a legal entity if it is international. I have a callback Tuesday about it. Will see what he has to say :)
12:11:33  <TrueBrain> s/from/form/
12:11:36  <nielsm> TrueBrain cool
12:12:33  <nielsm> milek7 tiny detail: maybe remove the "quit game" function from the in-game disk menu :)
12:12:37  <nielsm> since it doesn't work properly
12:13:57  <nielsm> and same for the Exit on the main menu
12:15:07  <milek7> well I'm no audiophile ;p
12:15:16  <milek7> maybe freepats soundfonts issue?
12:16:33  <nielsm> dunno, I should give it a listen on a linux build again some time
12:17:01  <nielsm> anyway bbl, going for a walk
12:17:10  <milek7> practically, it would be better to prerender songs with proper soundfont into .ogg and play that
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12:55:36  * andythenorth has to draw loads of steel industry buildings
12:55:37  <andythenorth> https://www.rivagroup.com/items/1227/foto/1/BrandenburgerElektrostahlwerke.jpg
12:55:55  <andythenorth> picture has docks on canals :D
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13:03:26  <glx> looking at #8023, I think this->color_space can be NULL if CGColorSpaceCreateWithName() fails, but the result is not checked, and I don't know if it can an issue to call CGBitmapContextCreate() with a NULL color_space
13:07:52  <michi_cc> NULL is definitely a problem, but the standard sRGB colour space should in theory be always available.
13:11:28  <Samu> isn't it nullptr?
13:14:27  <TrueBrain> I wish IRC supported a webcam .. you would see me facepalm :)
13:18:35  <Samu> I think I finished my canal pathfinder!
13:18:57  <Samu> penalty costs seem to be working correctly
13:19:43  <Samu> 2 tile wide aqueducts are a possibility, though it required me careful handling
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13:21:13  <Samu> ship depots were also difficult to handle, but it was made possible
13:21:59  <Samu> now there's only the matter of https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8074 being fixed
13:22:16  <Samu> seems to only affect costs
13:22:46  <Samu> doesn't affect pathfinder checking connectivity by mere luck
13:24:05  <Samu> by the time it walks through an aqueduct it is already assumed the tiles are connected, so, it was just luck
13:45:08  <TrueBrain> LordAro: the repository is named content-api and content-server .. should that be bananas-api and bananas-server, in your opinion?
13:45:20  <TrueBrain> internally BaNaNaS was always called "content-service"; the BaNaNaS name came a bit later :P
13:47:33  <LordAro> doesn't really matter :p
13:47:49  <LordAro> i guess that i would probably name them bananas-foo
13:48:05  <TrueBrain> I was more thinking about when people never seen the code, what they would expect to find
13:48:21  <TrueBrain> meh; guess I rename the repositories while it isn't live yet :P
13:48:59  <andythenorth> oof I left OpenTTD on the title screen and now my battery is gone :(
13:49:04  <andythenorth> 70% CPU
13:49:22  <andythenorth> ha
13:51:09  <Samu> holy snap! the pathfinder is utterly slow
13:51:19  <Samu> testing with 10k ops and medium speed
13:51:27  <Samu> I feel disappointed
13:55:22  <andythenorth> next April 1st someone code bots to impersonate me and samu
13:55:28  <andythenorth> not hard
13:55:48  <TrueBrain> lol @ andythenorth  :)
14:00:48  <nielsm> milek7: another random thought: offer an alternate webasm client that does not include the data files for music
14:01:08  <nielsm> (to lower the download size a bit)
14:05:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the content_server rewritten in Python https://git.io/JvhXd
14:05:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of content-api https://git.io/JvhXb
14:06:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the content_server rewritten in Python https://git.io/JvhXd
14:06:33  <TrueBrain> there, renamed :)
14:08:02  <nielsm> oh right, while I was walking, I thought about making a milestone (or "project" board) for openttd 2.0 and use that for wild but not implausible features that would definitely mark a 2.0 release
14:09:13  <TrueBrain> hmm .. GitHub Actions don't want to start ... oh-oh :P
14:10:25  <TrueBrain> ah, just terribly slow
14:10:25  <TrueBrain> fine
14:15:51  <TrueBrain> ah, it is even on their status page
14:15:58  <TrueBrain> so it is not the rename, pfew :)
14:17:04  <TrueBrain> okay, the AWS infrastructure for BaNaNaS has been setup (not yet deployed). I have to make a small Docker to redirect some old URLs, and after that I should be able to start this on staging
14:21:33  <andythenorth> hmm
14:21:38  <andythenorth> think I'm going to run out of industry IDs
14:21:41  <andythenorth> 128 is limit
14:32:31  <milek7> nielsm: https://milek7.pl/openttd-wasm-nomusic/
14:33:47  <nielsm> seems to load significantly faster for me
14:34:45  <milek7> it's 33MiB
14:38:01  <nielsm> I never noticed this block before, but it's probably worth keeipng in mind for newgrf industries: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/industry_cmd.cpp#L2688-L2690
14:38:19  <nielsm> water industries just have one of their cargoes limited in natural production...
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14:42:57  <Samu> wow
14:43:22  <Samu> pathfinder did find a path, built it, but the time it took... is abysmal https://i.imgur.com/8Weh3SP.png
14:43:43  <Samu> I'm happy and sad at the same time, about it
14:46:11  <milek7> nielsm: https://milek7.pl/openttd-wasm-lite/
14:46:28  <nielsm> that was _very_ fast :D
14:46:46  <milek7> no sounds and english only
14:47:14  <nielsm> I keep clicking the exit button by habit...
14:49:37  <nielsm> _dp_, regarding https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7896 - would you see a use for a button type that causes a text entry box so the player can submit a line of text? or how about one making a login box requesting both username and password?
14:49:43  <glx> probably like using right click on a screenshot to move the map :)
14:49:55  <Samu> now I see why detecting a river tile should be possible
14:50:31  <Samu> some competitor might demolish the river
14:51:01  <Samu> pathfinder goes through rivers
14:51:16  <Samu> but doesn't build canals on rivers
14:51:33  <Samu> and there's no easy way to detect whether the tile is river or not
14:51:52  <Samu> it could be sea
14:52:02  <Samu> i don't want to build canal on sea, only on river
14:54:12  <Samu> must experiment fibonacci heap, see if it's faster than binary in this situation
14:55:22  <Eddi|zuHause> <nielsm> I'd rather have larger town buildings first <-- we should probably resolve the "house walking" issue when replacing a large house with a smaller one. currently it replaces the north corner of the house, which may put the new house away from any roads
14:55:41  <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause yeah
14:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, not sure if we really need that much bigger house, a newgrf with 2x2 houses for larger towns would probably go a long way
14:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause> plus a few 2x1 and 1x2 "filler" houses
15:01:20  <nielsm> maybe some "commercial industries" that build in towns (replacing houses perhaps) which can be bigger
15:01:47  <nielsm> like a 3x4 luxury hotel
15:02:10  <nielsm> "headquarters" for various production industries
15:02:42  <nielsm> several competing banks :D
15:03:41  <Eddi|zuHause> town industries may be annoying because people can't remove them
15:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i once considered a GS where it splits the map into regions, and you can only build in the region where you put your HQ
15:05:37  <nielsm> make them rare, have checks for never making multiple of the same in one town, special town requirements, maybe only building in towns with well-established transport infrastructure?
15:06:33  <Eddi|zuHause> later you can expand by putting statues in other towns that act aas "branch office"
15:07:45  <nielsm> I'm imagining a statue with a secret door on the side, leading to an underground base
15:08:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/Jej1Z
15:08:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/JvhMM
15:09:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i always misread that title as "disallow GS from making production changes"
15:10:03  <Eddi|zuHause> wheras it's more like "allow GS to disallow production changes"
15:10:03  <nielsm> Feature: [GS] Disallow industry production changes
15:10:07  <nielsm> would that be better?
15:10:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure
15:13:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8079: Add: [NewGRF] Industry behaviour flag to override second cargo produc… https://git.io/JvhMQ
15:13:58  <nielsm> more random ideas: let GS buy land as a town, effectively reserving tiles for town expansion
15:15:22  <nielsm> oh nice, just discovered github now allows you to convert an open PR back to draft status
15:15:48  <nielsm> michi_cc: the commit title for that PR is rather long :P
15:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i just read that as: "more features that annoy players because they can't build where they like" :p
15:16:38  <michi_cc> Has the complete commit message more characters than the actual change? I didn't count, so I might have missed my goal :p
15:16:50  <glx> nielsm: https://github.blog/changelog/2020-04-08-convert-pull-request-to-draft/ it's quite recent indeed
15:18:44  <Samu> once again fibonacci heap beats binary heap in speed
15:18:53  <Eddi|zuHause> "smooth economy" is probably one of those features that maybe should be ripped out and rewritten from scratch
15:19:31  <Eddi|zuHause> this time with proper newgrf interaction
15:19:47  <Samu> @calc 19842 / 20598
15:19:47  <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.963297407515
15:19:59  <Samu> ~4% faster
15:21:33  <_dp_> nielsm, I almost found a use for #7896 as it is, though I'd prefer inline buttons
15:22:00  <_dp_> to select quests to do among 100 available
15:22:01  <nielsm> _dp_ you mean as part of the text flow?
15:22:24  <nielsm> because that would probably be very annoying
15:23:17  <_dp_> nielsm, yeah, so it's more clear what line it refers to
15:24:14  <FLHerne> nielsm: Feature: GameScript can block industry production changes  <- ?
15:25:00  <_dp_> nielsm, text input dialog as a separate feature also sounds awesome
15:25:12  <_dp_> ideally even some way to construct dialog boxes
15:25:42  <nielsm> _dp_ I can maybe do something so the button floats to the left of the previous or following paragraph
15:26:10  <nielsm> and maybe then has an icon instead of text?
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15:27:04  <supermop_Home_> hello
15:27:06  <_dp_> float to the right is better imo
15:27:46  <_dp_> icons are nice but together with text imo
15:28:05  <_dp_> icon rarely makes sense on its own
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15:29:42  <supermop_Home_> maybe i should play openttd
15:33:21  <supermop_Home_> anyone have a nice game going?
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15:59:55  <supermop_Home_> ugh breakdowns and inflation on
16:00:21  <supermop_Home_> i wish you could see this before joining a game
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16:14:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DonaldDuck313 opened issue #8080: Wrong station is added to the train's orders when clicking on a station. https://git.io/JvhyM
16:15:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8080: Wrong station is added to the train's orders when clicking on a station. https://git.io/JvhyM
16:15:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8080: Wrong station is added to the train's orders when clicking on a station. https://git.io/JvhyM
16:15:54  <LordAro> can't even get away from it even after a new release :p
16:15:58  <nielsm> closed without 30 seconds, you'd almost think I was a bot
16:17:35  <LordAro> beep boop
16:18:39  <andythenorth> death to smooth economy?
16:18:53  <andythenorth> we haven't done many big rewrites for a long time?
16:19:01  <andythenorth> what was the last one?  PBS?  YAPF?
16:19:28  <LordAro> NRT :p
16:21:09  <nielsm> music? :3
16:23:34  <andythenorth> Bananas!@
16:34:40  <TrueBrain> hmmm ... bananaaanananananaaaa
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16:38:23  <Samu> strange, graph aystar version 4 is faster than graph aystar version 6, for no apparent reason
16:38:48  <Samu> unless, that length
16:38:56  <Samu> ah, that must be it
16:49:15  <nielsm> okay yeah making floating buttons will be quite a task
16:49:30  <nielsm> I'll need to change the entire storybook drawing/layout code
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16:54:22  <Samu> is Zuu around?
16:54:31  <Samu> @seen zuu
16:54:31  <DorpsGek> Samu: zuu was last seen in #openttd 6 days, 19 hours, 36 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Zuu> Yes some of the devzone projects have been moved there but not all yet.
16:54:39  <Samu> :(
16:56:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/binaries-redirect] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of binaries-redirect https://git.io/JvhSj
16:58:40  <Samu> the addition of _length parameter, with the DistanceManhatan calls has made version 6 slower than previous versions: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/lib-aystar/repository/revisions/b9624f830d93/diff/
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17:26:09  <TrueBrain> right, did all the administrative tasks for BaNaNaS ... creating keys, creating sentry projects, assigning permissions
17:26:11  <TrueBrain> damn, that is boring work
17:26:24  <andythenorth> oof
17:26:28  <andythenorth> GG
17:26:31  <andythenorth> WP
17:35:13  <TrueBrain> okay ... think I am ready to deploy this ... oef, always this painful moment :P
17:35:17  <andythenorth> :D
17:38:29  <andythenorth> we are with you TB
17:38:49  <TrueBrain> lets start off with creating a bunch of new certificates
17:39:32  <TrueBrain> one annoying thing, the certificate overview sorts domain names by alfabet .. instead of by TLD, etc
17:42:43  <TrueBrain> I wonder what it will do with the cost-per-month .. the current information suggests BaNaNaS uses 4 TB per month .. which would cost 400 euro a month .. I just hope my measurements are somewhat wrong :P
17:49:58  * andythenorth crosses fingers
17:51:52  <TrueBrain> otherwise we can always deploy CloudFlare in front of it, to reduce the bill :)
17:53:18  <TrueBrain> or fix why-ever people are downloading so much content :P
17:53:22  <TrueBrain> I still don't believe it can be true
17:54:13  <TrueBrain> holy crap, we are now up to 8TB a month .. lol
17:54:18  <TrueBrain> it is a bit busy :)
17:55:22  <TrueBrain> seems that on average a download is 4 MiB, which sounds about right
17:55:45  <supermop_Home_> charge a subscription fee to bananas?
17:56:13  <TrueBrain> charge who? :)
17:56:22  <TrueBrain> the authors or the users? :D
17:56:26  <supermop_Home_> random passers-by
17:57:16  <TrueBrain> 60,000 downloads in the last 24 hour via BaNaNaS
17:57:27  <TrueBrain> (via ingame client, even)
17:58:02  <michi_cc> Are there search engine bots that use the ingame API? :p
17:58:15  <TrueBrain> no, that is nearly impossible :)
17:58:28  <TrueBrain> well, those are two statements. No. And that is nearly impossible :)
17:58:32  <TrueBrain> (I checked :P)
17:59:27  <TrueBrain> 40 downloads every minute .. that is a lot ..
17:59:36  <TrueBrain> so I guess the bill will be ~400 euro a month :P
18:03:42  <michi_cc> Okay, I guess that is where they make their profit. Strato will sell you a basic managed server with 10TB/month for 29 €.
18:04:32  <TrueBrain> main difference between Strato (and any other VPS or what-ever), that this is a true CDN :)
18:04:42  <TrueBrain> so latency for clients is really low
18:05:05  <TrueBrain> and for that, you pay :)
18:05:41  <TrueBrain> for now btw, it is free, as AWS gave us some lovely credits; but that is not really the point of course :)
18:07:05  <TrueBrain> I just really wish I could better see why so many people are downloading so much content. And if there is anything to gain there :)
18:07:36  <TrueBrain> I just have a really hard time believing so many people use the content-service
18:09:09  <TrueBrain> if I do the math some more, it means that on average a single person downloads 100 content entries .. which seems like .. A LOT
18:09:28  <andythenorth> bots?
18:09:53  <TrueBrain> not scrapers
18:10:18  <_dp_> there are servers with zillion newgrfs
18:10:23  <nielsm> yeah that
18:10:31  <TrueBrain> but ... how many people play multiplayer?
18:10:32  <_dp_> and with this corona thing there are lot more ppl playing
18:10:33  <TrueBrain> I mean ..
18:10:35  <nielsm> especially patchpack servers
18:10:52  <TrueBrain> we have 300 people playing in public servers atm
18:11:09  <TrueBrain> we have 6000 people a day downloading 60,000 entries via the content-service
18:11:09  <_dp_> TrueBrain, about 150 people at any given time on avg
18:11:19  <_dp_> up to 200 on sat/sun
18:11:25  <_dp_> https://citymania.org/player-activity
18:11:36  <andythenorth> how much of it is zbase?
18:11:54  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is something I do not know
18:12:17  <TrueBrain> _dp_: nice stats :)
18:13:33  <andythenorth> I was low on hard drive space once, and found about 1GB of different 32BPP grfs
18:14:06  <TrueBrain> I am still .. this is like a lot :P
18:15:14  <andythenorth> hmm
18:17:47  <TrueBrain> but okay, we will first see how much AWS says we consume .. as I trust those numbers more than my own :)
18:22:29  <TrueBrain> and now finally, lets deploy the new BaNaNaS ...
18:22:40  <TrueBrain> well, on staging
18:22:40  <TrueBrain> ofc
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18:37:09  <nielsm> this is not entirely as intended https://0x0.st/iSUT.png
18:37:32  <andythenorth> I like it
18:40:18  <nielsm> this is more like it: https://0x0.st/iSUA.png
18:45:02  <nielsm> https://0x0.st/iSUM.png
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18:50:27  <milek7> vector fonts without antialiasing look really bad
18:51:03  <nielsm> it's okay on a 200 dpi (I think?) display :P
18:51:58  <nielsm> (definitely looks better than doubled pixelfont)
18:55:40  <nielsm> look at this! https://0x0.st/iSU1.mp4
18:56:05  <nielsm> (there's some clipping issues on the right edge)
18:56:11  <_dp_> 200 dpi? what kind of display monstrosity is that?
18:56:22  <_dp_> I'm already having troubles with mine 160
18:56:56  <nielsm> maybe it's not that high, I don't remember
18:57:16  <nielsm> 24" 4k display
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18:57:55  <_dp_> yeah, that's sligthly less, 200 is 22 iirc
18:59:36  <nielsm> around 185 dpi
18:59:50  <nielsm> measured display area to 297 mm tall
19:01:08  <_dp_> buttons look nice
19:01:36  <_dp_> though I was talking of something like inline-block but float is not bad either
19:02:20  <nielsm> making buttons part of text layout would be hellish, making them part of block layout is doable :P
19:02:24  <supermop_Home_> ukrs 3 in 1930 + firs steeltown = spamming coal trains
19:04:24  <_dp_> nielsm, I know, it's just my OCD missing baseline alignment xD
19:05:05  <nielsm> ah yeah... I was thinking floating buttons should maybe just be moved up by the top border+padding
19:06:47  <_dp_> mb worth trying
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19:08:38  <frosch123> haha, you cannot define branch restrictions on empty repositories
19:09:49  <peter1138> o
19:11:13  <TrueBrain> frosch123: always push an empty commit to master, yes :)
19:11:32  <TrueBrain> the reason the first commit in all OpenTTD repos I made are: "Add: initial empty commit" :)
19:16:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages https://git.io/JepYW
19:16:46  <frosch123> how do i even make an empty commit...
19:17:28  <frosch123> google helped
19:17:29  <nielsm> git commit --allow-empty
19:17:48  <TrueBrain> :)
19:21:42  <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ you need a better steeltown :P
19:21:44  <andythenorth> oof
19:24:33  <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-oldskool-frontend/pull/1 <- i guess like that
19:24:55  <TrueBrain> just please name it "bananas-web" :) Or "bananas-frontend-web"
19:25:25  <frosch123> aw, who is going to write the js frontend then?
19:25:47  <TrueBrain> if we write it, it would replace your version, not? :D
19:25:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-oldskool-frontend] frosch123 merged pull request #1: Add: [DorpsGek] announce issues, pull-requests, and tags to IRC https://git.io/Jvh5C
19:25:52  <TrueBrain> or you wanted to have two? :P
19:26:15  <TrueBrain> I am also fine with bananas-frontend-oldskool, but this ordering is just ticking off my OCD :)
19:31:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 opened pull request #2: Add: first version of the web front-end to new BaNaNaS server. https://git.io/Jvh5V
19:31:13  <frosch123> andythenorth: if you want to do css, feel free
19:31:45  <frosch123> let's see whether i can run the server locally
19:32:58  <TrueBrain> I hope so :D
19:33:10  <TrueBrain> well, you want to run the api locally ;)
19:33:33  * andythenorth thinks black serif font is nice
19:34:46  <frosch123> andythenorth: be careful, i added an easteregg last weekend. it scared me today, when i tripped into it
19:35:11  <frosch123> also don't tell tb, he might kick me
19:35:16  <andythenorth> I honestly think we should use the current website skin
19:35:22  <Samu> tomorrow is easter
19:36:03  <TrueBrain> frosch123: tssk
19:45:00  <frosch123> what is the correct way to import "unused" modules, when the imports are done for their side-effects?
19:45:36  <TrueBrain> # noqa
19:45:38  <TrueBrain> behind the import
19:46:13  <frosch123> really?
19:46:48  <frosch123> well, it works
19:47:08  <frosch123> but when "noqa" is fine, why did you complain about oldskool?
19:47:15  <TrueBrain> there are cleaner ways to do it, but this is pretty normal too :)
19:47:26  <TrueBrain> because one is in my reach, the other is not :P
19:48:52  <TrueBrain> cool, did not know "secrets" module existed
19:49:01  <TrueBrain> I have been using "uuid"
19:49:26  <frosch123> you know too much python, i always google for modules
19:49:36  <frosch123> so i got "secrets"
19:49:49  <TrueBrain> :D
19:49:59  <TrueBrain> you have many imports in init; this is a bit of an anti-pattern. Are they needed?
19:50:09  <TrueBrain> (honest question, to be clear :D)
19:50:17  <frosch123> they register the pages to flask via the decorator
19:50:22  <frosch123> they are not referenced otherwise
19:50:33  <frosch123> but the load order somewhat matters
19:50:43  <frosch123> i.e. first initialize flask, then load pages
19:50:57  <TrueBrain> feels like flask has been using too much black magic
19:51:51  <frosch123> anyway, i added #noqa there :)
19:54:38  <TrueBrain> manager_new_package ... manager_package_edit .. why do you hate me :P
19:54:39  <TrueBrain> (sorry :D)
19:55:20  <frosch123> says the person who added 13 decorators to main()
19:55:25  <TrueBrain> really a long time ago I saw this kind of website .. but I wouldn't have done it any better .. well .. pretty much I would have done it worse :P
19:55:31  <TrueBrain> @click is awesome :D
19:56:01  <TrueBrain> and now I have to figure out how to give an ECS pod access to S3 ..
20:07:29  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what part of bananas-api is auto-generated?
20:10:47  <TrueBrain> none
20:10:49  <TrueBrain> why?
20:11:18  <frosch123> oh, i assumed helpers/api_schema was from swagger
20:11:35  <TrueBrain> no; I couldn't find an exported that worked for Python
20:11:40  <TrueBrain> (well, for Python3.8)
20:12:20  <TrueBrain> I wrote api_schema, it basically is an export of swagger to marshmallow, but manually :P
20:12:40  <TrueBrain> 1 of the annoying things for example, was that the schema was not ordered .. which made responses from the API in random order .. which is just annoying
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20:32:27  <TrueBrain> right, found the first real bug while deploying .. :D
20:33:42  <TrueBrain> sentry at least is kicking in nicely
20:33:46  <TrueBrain> which is a good thing
20:34:31  <andythenorth> :)
20:35:23  <TrueBrain> and bananas-server booted :D
20:35:29  <TrueBrain> now lets see if bananas-api can boot too
20:37:09  <Samu> got a really weird crash
20:37:10  <TrueBrain> ha, the ALB of AWS is doing what it should :D (shocker, right?)
20:37:22  <TrueBrain> on the same domain, it is now serving 2 different pods, depending on the path
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20:37:28  <TrueBrain> that makes so many things so much easier :D
20:39:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened issue #8081: Crash log when placing ship depot https://git.io/Jvhdi
20:40:06  <Samu> no idea what happened
20:40:14  <Samu> just crashed for no reason
20:41:16  <frosch123> haha, so you implemented the oauth2 client yourself :)
20:42:47  <TrueBrain> I love sentry
20:42:55  <TrueBrain> frosch123: no? Well, as much as you did for eints?
20:43:32  <TrueBrain> only instead of requests-oauth library, it is an asyncio-oauth library, but that is just tomato tomato :D
20:43:55  <frosch123> "healthz" is some external tool?
20:44:54  <TrueBrain> healthz is a k8s thingy, which should return 200
20:44:58  <TrueBrain> it is used to know when the pod is healthy
20:45:14  <TrueBrain> the loadbalancer only starts to use pods when they returned that URL as 200
20:45:20  <TrueBrain> (and stop using it if it fails to give 200 for N times)
20:45:31  <frosch123> ok, it looked so oldskooly
20:46:20  <TrueBrain> the "humor" of k8s, so Google, I guess :)
20:46:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8081: Crash log when placing ship depot https://git.io/Jvhdi
20:49:07  <TrueBrain> Docker Hub is not the most stable SaaS out there ...
20:49:16  <TrueBrain> it has been like this for months .. I worry about them
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20:53:31  <TrueBrain> okay, fixed a bunch of crashes .. I love getting my own software to crash :D
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20:57:57  <TrueBrain> okay, GitHub authentication works
20:58:08  <TrueBrain> S3 bucket seems to work
20:58:14  <TrueBrain> so now I need to upload something .. euh ..
20:58:25  <TrueBrain> I am going to write a simple CLI tool tomorrow :P
20:58:55  <nielsm> demoparty online right now https://www.twitch.tv/revisionparty/
20:59:08  <nielsm> PC 4k intros
21:00:51  <TrueBrain> http://bananas.cdn.staging.openttd.org/ <- the pretties page of them all ... a nice 404 :D
21:03:19  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhFl
21:03:31  <frosch123> commented what i understood
21:03:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhF4
21:05:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhFE
21:05:18  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhFu
21:06:07  <TrueBrain> tnx frosch123 ; I will extend the wishlist :D
21:06:25  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i did not find, where authors are set on upload
21:06:29  <frosch123> are they editable later?
21:06:53  <TrueBrain> ah, that is not on the wishlist yet
21:06:59  <TrueBrain> no, currently you cannot set the authors via the API
21:07:14  <TrueBrain> the functionality simply doesn't exist yet :)
21:07:19  <frosch123> well, the api should set at least one author for new packages
21:07:38  <TrueBrain> the current user is set
21:08:04  <TrueBrain> that is part of the Package struct
21:08:19  <TrueBrain> (authors are per package, not per version, as a reminder :D)
21:08:38  <TrueBrain> so currently if you upload a new version of an existing package, and you are an author, nothing changes (in regards to authors)
21:08:49  <TrueBrain> and if you upload a new version of a non-existing package, a new package is created with you as only author
21:08:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8081: Crash log when placing ship depot https://git.io/Jvhdi
21:09:29  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I am tempted to put the stricter validation of dependencies on the wishlist too
21:09:47  <TrueBrain> on the other hand, it is a small change .. I have issues drawing any line :D
21:09:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #8081: Crash log when placing ship depot https://git.io/Jvhdi
21:10:01  <andythenorth> pharmaceuticals cargo
21:10:04  <andythenorth> PHRM?
21:10:06  <andythenorth> DRUG?
21:10:21  <andythenorth> HEAL
21:10:23  <frosch123> my main concern is, that the dependencies disable the "savegame-only" restriction
21:10:57  <frosch123> so, i added the stronger dependency validation to the wishlist, and a simpler in the code
21:10:59  <NGC3982> i just noticed that ctrl+clicking options in the transparency menu locks them individually
21:11:10  <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is fair :)
21:11:10  <NGC3982> that is a very, very nifty feature
21:11:42  <frosch123> NGC3982: https://wiki.openttd.org/Hidden_features <- everyone should read that page at least once
21:12:08  <NGC3982> ooh.
21:12:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhF9
21:14:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the bananas_server rewritten in Python https://git.io/JvhXd
21:14:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhXb
21:14:42  <TrueBrain> will fix the rest tomorrow frosch123 ; good comments, tnx :)
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21:16:34  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I setup a staging variant of BaNaNaS, including a GitHub: https://github.com/OpenTTD/BaNaNaS-staging
21:16:41  <TrueBrain> this so we can constantly test stuff on staging
21:16:47  <TrueBrain> without having to worry to break production :D
21:17:54  <milek7> everything on github? isn't it bit too much vendor lock-in?
21:18:56  <frosch123> no, we only rely on git and oauth2
21:19:33  <frosch123> the stuff can be ported to the next githype platform pretty easy
21:19:53  <frosch123> eints already survived hg and svn
21:19:56  <TrueBrain> as long as I don't have to port the GitHub Actions :P
21:20:11  <glx> hehe
21:20:28  <TrueBrain> rewrote CF code ... 7 times now?
21:20:40  <frosch123> this year
21:20:45  <TrueBrain> Custom, buildbot, Jenkins, Custom, Docker, Azure Pipelines, GitHub Actions
21:20:49  <TrueBrain> ha, 7, yes :)
21:20:58  <TrueBrain> well, in 16 years, so I guess that is fine
21:21:22  <frosch123> when did we have jenkins? do you mean bamboo?
21:21:31  <TrueBrain> owh, we also did bamboo, dammit .. 8
21:21:49  <glx> hmm CF is not fully GitHub Actions
21:21:57  <TrueBrain> not sure when we did Jenkins .. just know it was when I learned it sucks balls :P
21:22:05  <TrueBrain> glx: it never was fully one or the other :P
21:22:12  <TrueBrain> it was always "pending migration to N"
21:22:13  <TrueBrain> :D
21:22:16  <TrueBrain> some things never change :P
21:22:35  <TrueBrain> well, the old stuff can all be set offline now, I guess
21:22:41  <TrueBrain> that is a first .. so we only have 2 active atm :D
21:22:57  <frosch123> TrueBrain: pretty sure "bamboo" was online the longest
21:23:14  <TrueBrain> it was also the easiest one to use, for me
21:23:22  <TrueBrain> as it "just worked"
21:23:28  <TrueBrain> the first one we had, used jails
21:23:30  <TrueBrain> that was also very stable
21:23:37  <TrueBrain> but run on an university server somewhere :P
21:24:07  <TrueBrain> after that for a few years it was just messy ... Rb also really helped out, but it was difficult
21:24:14  <TrueBrain> bamboo stabilized the shit out of the CF
21:24:21  <TrueBrain> Azure Pipelines also hasn't disapoint, tbh
21:24:30  <TrueBrain> now also running for, what, over a year?
21:24:37  <TrueBrain> with minimal amount of issues
21:24:54  <TrueBrain> 5 jan 2019
21:24:58  <TrueBrain> so 15 months
21:24:59  <TrueBrain> nice
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21:25:11  <glx> Samu: the save is so slow :)
21:26:36  <Samu> im checking it, the problem is that it's trying to update docking tiles of buoys
21:26:48  <Samu> they're not even stations
21:27:03  <Samu> Station::GetByTile(tile) returns nullptr
21:27:42  <glx> yes that's what I guessed when reading the call stack
21:28:03  <TrueBrain> right, enough for one day. Tomorrow we make a nice CLI to test out the API. And I will check out your work too frosch123  :) LETS DO THIISSSSSS :D
21:29:11  <frosch123> i thought you already had a cli in the regression
21:29:22  <Samu> just filter out buoys, i dunno which function does that
21:29:27  <Samu> and it should be fixed
21:29:42  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I do. But I need to move it to a new repo and make it nice and everything
21:29:47  <andythenorth> ;)
21:29:49  <TrueBrain> guess I will support the musa ini or something
21:29:57  <TrueBrain> so we can ask silly people like andythenorth  to test stuff :P
21:30:05  <andythenorth> oof
21:30:11  <TrueBrain> all the code is there, just a matter of moving :)
21:30:12  <andythenorth> is that wise?
21:30:12  <frosch123> don't distract him from writing css
21:30:17  <frosch123> we have noone else who does that
21:30:19  <andythenorth> I'm writing css? :(
21:30:20  <TrueBrain> frosch123: fair point :D
21:30:23  <andythenorth> we have loads of people
21:30:24  <Samu> !IsBuoyTile(tile) should suffice
21:30:27  <Samu> let me try
21:30:36  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: aren't you? Owh boy ....
21:30:37  <TrueBrain> :D
21:30:57  <TrueBrain> well, I am off getting some nightrest
21:31:00  <TrueBrain> take care all :)
21:31:02  <andythenorth> thanks TB :)
21:31:06  <andythenorth> bananaramas
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21:31:56  <andythenorth> frosch123 I am not trolling about keeping existing bananas skin btw
21:31:59  <andythenorth> deadly serious
21:32:07  <frosch123> i don't mind
21:32:31  <andythenorth> all I see from changing is weeks or months of debate
21:32:35  <frosch123> but i am not sure whether it makes stuff easier
21:32:56  <andythenorth> and lots of 'review' from people who otherwise do not show up and help
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21:33:11  <frosch123> the navigation bar is pretty massive in the new frontend, that already fails with the existing layout
21:33:20  <andythenorth> maybe we can fix it
21:33:52  <andythenorth> I'm not really productive with our public  process where it seems anyone can nitpick and prevent a feature shipping, but few will actually do it :P
21:33:58  <frosch123> i used 3 rows, to reduce the width
21:34:03  <andythenorth> when I did eints it was me and alberth and nobody could stop us doing it
21:34:13  <andythenorth> same reason I won't write any more blog posts
21:34:27  <andythenorth> it's more important to people to pick at commas than actually ship anything, or write anything
21:34:28  <andythenorth> :D
21:34:46  <frosch123> he, i was surprised that even two blog posts were written :p
21:35:14  <frosch123> when i read in irc log about regular blogs and a faster release cycle, i felt pretty lol :p
21:35:51  <frosch123> noone wanted to write release announcements in 10 years, why would people suddenly want to write blogs?
21:36:13  <andythenorth> well I would, but 100% zero motivation after the last one
21:36:20  <frosch123> but i like referencing the january dev post. i think i will continue that meme for a while
21:36:43  <andythenorth> I think it annoys TB :)
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21:39:15  <andythenorth> 'ETHY' or 'C2H4'?
21:40:05  * andythenorth chooses C2H4
21:40:16  <frosch123> i also prefer C2H4
21:40:32  <andythenorth> also, is the industry limit increasable beyond 128? :)
21:40:41  <andythenorth> I have a solution if it's not
21:40:43  <frosch123> there are a lot of elements with ethsomething
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21:41:39  <frosch123> the limit of industries is arbitrary
21:41:43  <frosch123> the limit of industry tiles is harder
21:41:50  <frosch123> map array stuff :)
21:42:15  <glx> not enough free bits ?
21:42:17  <andythenorth> I am running out of industries faster than tiles for some reason
21:43:01  <andythenorth> oh there are 255 tiles, that's why
21:43:06  <andythenorth> and most industries use 1 or 2
21:43:58  <frosch123> hmm, i thought we hosted landscape_grid somewhere
21:44:06  <frosch123> but i guess that's still on some todo list somewhere :)
21:44:24  <andythenorth> there was a hokey solution for it
21:44:54  <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Map_array_(landscape_grid)
21:45:07  <frosch123> oh, looks like the industry tile limit is already 512 total, 255 per grf
21:45:28  <andythenorth> ha ha I forgot that I organised all the wiki dev docs
21:45:34  <andythenorth> what else did I do and forget?
21:45:36  <andythenorth> HEQS!
21:46:02  <andythenorth> nobody got to review my wiki changes :P
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21:47:12  <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, both industry and tile limit are already higher in ottd internals, and limited to lower numbers per grf
21:47:35  <glx> oh I can reproduce #8081 with rail waypoint too
21:47:42  <andythenorth> I doubt I'd need more than 64 active at once
21:47:48  <andythenorth> even if I did weird town buildings
21:48:01  <andythenorth> but I have hit 99 in current FIRS codebase
21:48:20  <andythenorth> I can assign IDs per economy, I do that for cargos, it's not onerous
21:48:20  <frosch123> ah, there is a comment about the limit to 128
21:48:36  <frosch123> some 60+x variables take an industry id as parameter
21:48:42  <andythenorth> ah
21:48:48  <frosch123> and they can only handle 7 bit ids, since bit 8 is used for original/newgrf
21:49:41  <frosch123> pretty sure you use those variables for your placement checks
21:49:55  <andythenorth> likely
21:50:10  <frosch123> so, that part is not easy :)
21:50:12  <andythenorth> well assigning IDs per economy is not awful
21:50:19  <andythenorth> it just breaks savegames more often
21:53:56  <andythenorth> I am doing a chemical economy
21:54:10  <andythenorth> rejected names include 'All Your Base Belong to Us'
21:54:39  <frosch123> isn't it "all your base are belong to us"?
21:55:07  <andythenorth> know your meme
21:55:11  <andythenorth> yes you're correct
21:55:49  <frosch123> what about "super model"?
21:56:23  <frosch123> with botox and other makeup stuff
21:56:43  <frosch123> H2O2 and stuff
21:56:49  <supermop_Home_> i think the botox is not for the super models
21:57:25  <frosch123> the recycling yard needs botox to produce super models?
21:57:55  <frosch123> anyway, pretty sure i heard about teenagers using botox
22:00:50  * andythenorth learns about catalysts
22:01:02  <andythenorth> chemistry is somewhat magical mystery tour for me
22:01:14  <andythenorth> all the words look similar, but the meanings are very different
22:03:22  <supermop_Home_> organics?
22:03:36  <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegler%E2%80%93Natta_catalyst
22:03:48  <supermop_Home_> hmm we have a bag of French oak chips
22:04:03  <supermop_Home_> maybe i will 'barrel age' this soup stock i'm making
22:04:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8082: Fix #8081: Check for waypoints when removing docking tiles https://git.io/JvhNB
22:06:04  <frosch123> "oak chips" does not sound edible
22:06:14  <andythenorth> :)
22:07:14  <andythenorth> this new economy is basically new Extreme
22:07:22  <andythenorth> everything goes everywhere, just less ugly
22:07:34  <andythenorth> which food cargos are most important?
22:07:36  <andythenorth> cheese?
22:07:49  <glx> depends :)
22:10:11  <NGC3982> did you just say that the importance of cheese "depends"?
22:10:33  <glx> no the most important food
22:10:35  <NGC3982> what has the world come to
22:12:30  <NGC3982> that reminds me
22:12:31  <NGC3982> https://dbtwgukw5oo4.cloudfront.net/film_AGDO_dtop_1.jpg
22:15:11  <frosch123> i thought it was weird, that the moon was only one type of cheese
22:19:31  <supermop_Home_> andythenorth i wish there were some reversed coke ovens
22:19:35  <andythenorth> ?
22:19:59  <supermop_Home_> so i can have the coal drop on the right and the coke loading on the left
22:20:36  <andythenorth> hmm
22:20:43  <andythenorth> rotterdam objects
22:22:58  <NGC3982> https://www.flickr.com/photos/maciej_drwiega/7529152168/
22:23:13  <NGC3982> i really like how people can create so much dynamics in lego
22:23:29  <NGC3982> doesnt even look blocky
22:26:40  * andythenorth wonders about industries with 8 required input cargos
22:26:44  <andythenorth> lolz or not?
22:29:01  <andythenorth> also sleep
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22:33:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8082: Fix #8081: Check for waypoints when removing docking tiles https://git.io/JvhAu
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