Log for #openttd on 12th April 2020:
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04:32:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
04:48:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
05:04:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth
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06:46:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8082: Fix #8081: Check for waypoints when removing docking tiles
06:46:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8081: Crash log when placing ship depot
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06:57:46  <andythenorth> o/
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07:12:35  <andythenorth> lime kilns
07:45:43  <TrueBrain> CSS finished? :D
07:52:31  <TrueBrain> I found so many eggs in my fridge .. unbelievable. Like I put them there or something
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08:10:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
08:28:51  <Eddi|zuHause> * andythenorth wonders about industries with 8 required input cargos <-- use it very very sparingly. like one single industry. in one single economy.
08:30:19  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: what? no. must have been the easterbunny
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08:43:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
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08:44:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
08:53:48  <andythenorth> TrueBrain did you hoard all the eggs?
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08:55:38  <TrueBrain> YES, YES I DID \o/ :D
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08:56:20  <Samu> hi
08:57:05  <Samu> great fix glx, better than I imagined :)
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09:08:19  * andythenorth plays Blitz
09:08:30  <andythenorth> player nicknames are in inverse proportion to skill
09:08:47  <andythenorth> 'pro' and 'killer' always have < 48% (global average) WR
09:08:59  <andythenorth> 'Iamnoob' is guaranteed purple player (70%)
09:09:05  <andythenorth> dunning kruger
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09:41:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Aswn opened issue #8083: Add currency Unit - Indian  Rupee
10:23:29  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window
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10:27:58  <Wolf01> <andythenorth> player nicknames are in inverse proportion to skill <- rule of L
10:28:32  <Wolf01> Applies to height, cars, names, money
10:28:33  <andythenorth> "xX_Pro_Winner_Assassin_Sniper_Kill_Xx"
10:28:36  <andythenorth> rushes to front, dies
10:28:47  <andythenorth> it's totemic
10:28:56  <andythenorth> we name ourselves what we want to be, not what we are
10:28:59  <andythenorth> I am not in the north :P
10:29:30  <Wolf01> xX_ _Xx is even more explicit of skillness
10:29:34  <SpComb> what's your latitude
10:29:36  * andythenorth doesn't particularly want to be in the north
10:29:41  <andythenorth> Wolf01 you are Northern?
10:29:46  <andythenorth> but yet you are south of me?
10:30:11  <andythenorth> 51 deg N SpComb
10:30:11  <Wolf01> I live nearest to the equator than you, but both are in the northern emisphere
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10:30:47  * SpComb 60°N
10:31:22  <Wolf01> 45°N
10:49:15  <LordAro> 54°N
10:51:13  <TrueBrain> 51.8302697 N :P
10:55:00  <milek7>
10:55:32  <SpComb> are you holding your phone in your left or right hand, facing what heading?
10:56:00  <LordAro> Wally is somewhere on this line
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10:58:25  <SpComb> raises the question of what reference point you use to define where exactly "you" are as a specific point on the surface of the earth
10:58:46  <SpComb> and when your coordinate reference system was updated to take tectonic plate shifts into account?
10:58:55  <LordAro> Dordrecht & Nijmegen are the bigger Dutch cities approximately along that line
10:58:59  <LordAro> in case you were wondering :p
11:09:13  <nielsm>  maybe I went overboard with the float stuff
11:09:45  <nielsm> but I can't think of a good way to keep baseline alignment between a floated button and the main text that isn't massively complex
11:11:16  <LordAro> :)
11:16:43  <andythenorth> SpComb there is a detailed document from UK Ordnance Survey about co-ordinate systems
11:16:55  <andythenorth> many things to consider, including effect of tides
11:19:06  * andythenorth goes back in his hole
11:20:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages
11:26:29  <TrueBrain> LordAro: lol @ "approx" .. I give you this very exact value, and you come back with "approx"
11:26:39  <TrueBrain> I am not saying I am dissapointed, but ...
11:28:57  <LordAro> i was just clicking around in google maps, couldn't be bothered to go into any greater detail :p
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11:56:07  <TrueBrain> :D
11:57:19  <andythenorth> well
11:57:22  <andythenorth> I should do chores
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12:12:04  <Samu> Páscoa!
12:29:35  <TrueBrain> ugh, tusd remains very unfriendly; but there are not many alternatives, sadly
12:29:42  <TrueBrain> I now finally have it up and running
12:29:53  <TrueBrain> but ...
12:30:08  <TrueBrain> it is returning http URLs instead of https, and I cannot change settings for that :D
12:30:17  <andythenorth> oof
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12:35:58  <TrueBrain> $ python -m ape upload
12:35:58  <TrueBrain> 2020-04-12 14:35:24 ERROR    Uploading failed with validation errors:
12:36:03  <TrueBrain> 2020-04-12 14:35:24 ERROR     - File 'test.txt' failed validation
12:36:03  <TrueBrain> 2020-04-12 14:35:24 ERROR     - test.txt: Could not recognise this file; possibly the extension is wrong?
12:36:04  <TrueBrain> :D
12:47:42  <Wolf01> LOL: "the while background (which has been my main reason for not playing the game at all"
12:48:26  <Wolf01> People have strange priorities
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13:07:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what's worse is that the people with strange priorities are also often the loudest ones
13:25:26  <TrueBrain> so close .... my pod cannot write a file on S3 .. so sad!
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14:00:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
14:03:35  <frosch123> hmm, i wonder what's the purpose of the swagger-generated client
14:04:15  <frosch123> i am only passing json structs between backend and jinja template, so i think i do not need anything of the swagger stuff
14:04:32  <TrueBrain> validation :)
14:05:09  <TrueBrain> as you have seen, I wrote my own swagger-generated client, but if that could have been automated, that would have made a lot of things easier :)
14:06:26  <TrueBrain> there are also generated clients that wrap everything in nice objects
14:06:34  <TrueBrain> which are a bit more friendly than JSON objects, ofc
14:06:49  <TrueBrain> but there too, it mostly adds type-checking
14:12:52  <frosch123> whenever i read sources which follow a fixed maximum line length, i think how nice code is that does not bother about line length
14:13:49  <TrueBrain> so you are that type of programmer :P
14:14:21  <frosch123> i think code formatting should fit the logic of the code. it's silly to give hard rules precedence
14:14:41  <nielsm> right try to avoid long lines but sometimes a statement works best with a long line and has no good place to break
14:19:54  <TrueBrain> why oh why is my deployment key not working .. grrrr
14:21:23  <glx> typo ?
14:21:33  <frosch123> bananas-server is surprisingly small compared to bananas-api
14:22:28  <TrueBrain> it really is frosch123 , it really is :)
14:22:44  <TrueBrain> I was so happy with bananas-server .... I did not realise how big bananas-api would become
14:23:08  <glx> but api does a lot more checking
14:23:41  <TrueBrain> I think 50% is validation
14:23:42  <TrueBrain> if not more
14:23:49  <TrueBrain> possibly even 70%, tbh
14:24:08  <glx> still better than the old one accepting almost anything
14:25:17  <frosch123> pretty sure the problem is so hard, that the new one still accepts a lot of sillyness :)
14:25:51  <TrueBrain> but at least it gives means to fix them when they pop up :)
14:26:18  <TrueBrain> I absolutely hate errors I cannot reproduce locally
14:26:32  <glx> nobody likes that I think
14:28:35  <TrueBrain> add AWS in the mix, and you have like a bizilion possible issues
14:34:03  <TrueBrain> finally, I can reproduce it inside a docker :D w00p
14:35:28  <frosch123> is it the fault of pyyaml if it does not have wheel as requirement, but needs it for building?
14:36:04  <TrueBrain> I guess?
14:36:34  <frosch123> well, i had to add wheel to requirements.txt, before pyyaml
14:36:49  <frosch123> no idea whether that's something that needs fixing in bananas_api
14:38:22  <TrueBrain> euh .. the package "wheel"?
14:38:32  <TrueBrain> that sounds like your pip did something wrong :)
14:40:02  <TrueBrain> if my memory serves me right, you only need "wheel" if you are building wheels, which you shouldn't be doing :D
14:40:25  <TrueBrain> anyway, the requirements.txt in the repo works fine in the Docker, so not sure what went wrong
14:41:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
14:43:09  <TrueBrain> okay, after 10 layers of debugging: "error: cannot run ssh: No such file or directory"
14:43:10  <TrueBrain> lolz
14:43:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
14:44:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
14:44:32  <glx> ahah
14:45:32  <frosch123> he, i just c&p the readme :p
14:45:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
14:46:14  <TrueBrain> frosch123: yeah .. I guess .. if it is in the README, we might want to add it
14:46:23  <TrueBrain> Python just made this so annoying
14:47:19  <frosch123> so, next thing missing is tusd
14:47:25  <frosch123> maybe i should have used the docker :)
14:47:28  <TrueBrain> yes
14:47:43  <TrueBrain> but that reminds me .. did I write in the README that youhave to install tus
14:48:13  <frosch123> no, but you also did not write that you have to install pip3
14:49:55  <TrueBrain> This API is written in Python 3.8 with aiohttp, and makes strong use of asyncio.
14:49:59  <TrueBrain> I mean ...
14:50:05  <TrueBrain> you cannot get Python 3.8 without pip these days :D
14:50:19  <TrueBrain> but I will write it down :)
14:50:49  <TrueBrain> huh, no, even more weird. .. why did youhave to install pip3?
14:50:53  <TrueBrain> the python3 -m venv .env
14:50:55  <TrueBrain> installs pip
14:51:03  <TrueBrain> what kind of OS are you running over there? :D
14:51:07  <TrueBrain> I start to worry :)
14:51:24  <frosch123> pip was already installed, i just guessed
14:51:42  <TrueBrain> sorry, I am honestly curious now what you tried to do, as this is a bit weird to me
14:51:49  <TrueBrain> you have python3.8? And did python3 -m venv .env ?
14:51:54  <TrueBrain> and in that .env/bin, there was no pip?
14:52:15  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
14:52:41  <frosch123> no, i am on debian stable, i have python 3.7, and wanted to know whether that is an issue
14:52:56  <frosch123> and i had no issue with pip
14:53:06  <frosch123> i just named a random basic package
14:53:39  <TrueBrain> okay, now I am confused :) And no, it needs 3.8 :)
14:53:41  <frosch123> forget that i mentioned pip. replace it with "you did not mention to not run it on windows"
14:54:36  <TrueBrain> "Host key verification failed."
14:54:38  <TrueBrain> pffft
14:55:19  <frosch123> what is the point of using $(pwd) in mkdir? that sounds like cat |
14:55:56  <TrueBrain> what are you refering to? :)
14:56:04  <frosch123> the readme
14:56:08  <TrueBrain> mkdir -p $(pwd)/../bananas-common
14:56:30  <TrueBrain> the $(pwd) is there because the next line needs it, and it is easier to understand if they are consistent
14:56:41  <TrueBrain> so people who want to replace it with anything else, can understand those 3 should be identical
14:56:44  <TrueBrain> I hope, anyway
14:57:09  <frosch123> ok, i wondered whether there was magic with symlinks
14:57:21  <TrueBrain> nah; I just didn't want to make a variable out of it
15:00:17  <TrueBrain> owh, I see the Docker doesn't like IPv6 bind
15:00:18  <TrueBrain> I will fix that too
15:00:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
15:07:26  <TrueBrain> hmm .. the volume mounts are no longer working here
15:07:29  <TrueBrain> let me check
15:09:47  <frosch123> i wonder what is running inside the docker that blocks port 80
15:10:54  <TrueBrain> the IPv6 stack in Docker is a bit wonky
15:11:38  <TrueBrain> CMD ["--bind", "", "--storage", "local", "--index", "local", "--user", "developer", "--index-github-url", ""]
15:11:43  <TrueBrain> I will push that in a second
15:12:12  <TrueBrain> euh, you can forget about the index-github-url :D
15:13:25  <frosch123> hey, it started
15:13:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
15:13:46  <TrueBrain> and there are all the fixes I found and you mentioned :)
15:14:44  <TrueBrain> need to fix bananas-server in a similar way
15:14:53  <TrueBrain> but to test your frontend, you don't need bananas-server just yet :)
15:15:31  <frosch123> i needed the secret repo, but i figured that out myself
15:15:45  <TrueBrain> you can start clean just fine :)
15:15:51  <TrueBrain> with my latest push, that even works :)
15:16:03  <frosch123> i guess "latest" is important there
15:16:13  <frosch123> it failed when the directory was just empty
15:16:15  <TrueBrain> yeah, otherwise it has issues doing the "git init" on BaNaNaS :)
15:16:19  <frosch123> maybe git init would have been enough
15:16:32  <frosch123> anyway, curl claims it works
15:16:33  <TrueBrain> although it seems there is still a bug there .. hmm ..
15:17:33  <frosch123> also nice that the last package's description says "Tahnk you for downloading my pack, have fun"
15:17:42  <frosch123> (typos by me)
15:17:49  <TrueBrain> :D
15:18:27  <TrueBrain> somehow the volume mounts dont work .. hmmmm
15:18:32  <TrueBrain> not in the way I expect them to, anyway
15:19:54  <TrueBrain> it made the mounts somewhere .. I just don't know where on my disk :D
15:19:54  <TrueBrain> sweet
15:20:48  <frosch123> bbl
15:21:08  <TrueBrain> if I restart my docker, I can still see the content; I just cannot find it on my disk :D
15:21:09  <TrueBrain> haha
15:21:16  <TrueBrain> I have spaces in my folders
15:21:17  <TrueBrain> always nice :)
15:22:17  <TrueBrain> owh
15:22:18  <TrueBrain> euh
15:22:19  <TrueBrain> I am being stupid
15:22:22  <TrueBrain> like .. big-time
15:22:26  <TrueBrain> I run docker on another host :D
15:22:26  <TrueBrain> lol
15:23:11  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
15:23:18  <TrueBrain> seems the "mkdir" is optional, but what-ever
15:24:27  <TrueBrain> frosch123: important mention: tusd on local systems runs on another port; it is not forwarded by the port 80 webserver
15:24:42  <TrueBrain> in production it is a single endpoint
15:28:35  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api
15:29:16  <TrueBrain> frosch123: if you like, you can now also use
15:29:27  <TrueBrain> that is to say, I am still validating it, but I just uploaded the first package (OpenGFX 0.6.0)
15:29:43  <TrueBrain> it is otherwise completely empty
15:30:22  <TrueBrain> right, dinner time indeed :)
15:44:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7
16:09:46  <Samu> minchinweb's ship pathfinder isn't what I thought it was
16:10:10  <Samu> doesn't builds locks, or aqueducts, it only works at sea level
16:10:34  <Samu> the only thing it builds is buoys :(
16:12:23  <Samu> there's 2 other AIs to take a look
16:12:38  <Samu> ShipAI and RailwAI, both use ships and canals
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16:14:37  <mcbanhas> howdy :)
16:17:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the bananas_server rewritten in Python
16:23:54  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7
16:25:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7
16:28:27  <frosch123> i like looking at diffs that remove lots of code. even if i do not understand them otherwise
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16:30:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7
16:30:44  <TrueBrain> a good review rarely needs understanding of code :P
16:31:06  <TrueBrain> okay, wrote a very very VERY basic CLI tool
16:31:08  <TrueBrain> that can upload content
16:31:10  <TrueBrain> and list your own
16:31:12  <TrueBrain> that is it :P
16:31:27  <TrueBrain> well, I guess I should make it able to edit too
16:31:30  <TrueBrain> just .. to be sure that works
16:31:35  <frosch123> how do you do authentication via cli? or is it dev only?
16:31:48  *** Flygon has quit IRC
16:31:48  <TrueBrain> no, just like any frontend
16:31:59  <TrueBrain> any CLI frontend
16:32:04  <TrueBrain> the azure-trick, I call it :P
16:32:17  <frosch123> you ask for pw and send it to gh?
16:32:19  <TrueBrain> I setup a small webserver on localhost, ask the API to authenticate, tell the user to visit the github URL I show him
16:32:21  <TrueBrain> and that is it :)
16:32:40  <TrueBrain> after GitHub flow, it redirects to localhost
16:32:42  <TrueBrain> giving me the all-okay
16:32:49  <frosch123> redirect to localhost works?
16:33:02  <TrueBrain> yes, why not?
16:33:17  <frosch123> i just assumed browsers would block that
16:33:26  <frosch123> like they block file:///
16:33:40  <TrueBrain> yeah, but file:// is rather unrestricted
16:33:45  <TrueBrain> localhost not so much :)
16:34:02  <TrueBrain> anyway, it also caches your token, so you don't have to do that every time
16:34:05  <TrueBrain> just every 14 hours :P
16:35:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7
16:42:08  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain opened pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API
16:44:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7
16:44:51  <TrueBrain> okay ... I think the infra is up and running
16:44:57  <TrueBrain> and everything seems to be in working order
16:46:23  <TrueBrain> well, for the HTTP part
16:46:30  <TrueBrain> I have some work to do to make it available to the ingame client
16:46:42  <TrueBrain> and I need to add callbacks so it reloads the GitHub repository when changes are made
16:49:08  <glx> oh need to rebase cmake carefully I think
17:02:38  <Samu> I found another heap!
17:02:44  <Samu> Native Heap
17:05:13  <Samu> ShipAI author had this heap, it's great! it's faster
17:10:40  <Samu>
17:18:47  *** Jackal has joined #openttd
17:18:56  <Jackal> Hello Everyone
17:19:20  *** Jackal is now known as Guest22033
17:19:39  <Guest22033> I am long time openttd fan but now i want to play Russia empire map and i am facing error becose i have to somehow manually add extensions to game
17:19:54  <Guest22033> Can someone please help me what to do
17:21:02  <FLHerne> Guest22033: Do you have a link to this?
17:22:10  <Guest22033> i download russian empire and i think this is all i have to install
17:22:14  <Guest22033>
17:22:37  <FLHerne> Guest22033: You should download the relevant NewGRF files and install them to Documents\OpenTTD\newgrf
17:23:04  <FLHerne> The files from that link, you'll have to unzip first
17:23:06  <Guest22033> i put them in there but somewhere i read that i have to get ttdpatch
17:23:28  <nielsm> no, ttdpatch is not relevant for openttd
17:23:30  <FLHerne> You don't need ttdpatch; OpenTTD is fine
17:24:03  <FLHerne> (probably; I think there are a few ttdpatch saves that OTTD isn't compatible with)
17:25:18  <Guest22033> i have those files in newgrf folder but when i try to launch it says i am missing files
17:28:21  <glx> you may need to activate them manually in newgrf settings
17:29:41  <Guest22033> new grf setting says  matching grf not found
17:29:47  <Guest22033> i see them in list
17:30:08  <Guest22033> matching filr not found
17:31:16  <nielsm> if you open NewGRF Settings from the main menu (not the load game/load scenario window) do the NewGRFs show as avaialble there?
17:33:33  <Guest22033> No they dont show in there list
17:33:46  <nielsm> okay then you did not put them in the correct folder
17:33:57  <glx> you restarted openttd after putting them there ?
17:34:33  <Samu> funny how different queues return different paths...
17:34:47  <Samu> is that intended to happen?
17:34:55  <nielsm> newgrf folder location:
17:36:44  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code)
17:36:58  <glx> I just hope I didn't break anything :)
17:37:54  <Guest22033> Now i see them in list but how i activate them
17:38:18  <nielsm> try load loading the game now
17:39:06  <Guest22033> matching file not found [ compatitle grf found}
17:39:41  <nielsm> maybe it will work then :D
17:42:53  <Guest22033> cant load scenario becose of missing files
17:45:00  <glx> ok cmake branch still seem to work for macos
17:47:39  <FLHerne> Guest22033: Are you trying to start a normal game or a multiplayer server?
17:48:32  <Guest22033> Normal
17:48:58  <Guest22033> play scenario and then i try to start russia empire
17:49:44  <Guest22033> can someone please try that russian empire scenario and tell me what i do wrong..
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17:59:55  <Guest22033> herne ootko suomesta
18:02:20  <glx> ok I tried using "find missing content online" and still 3 missing files
18:03:59  <Guest22033> i have 4
18:04:49  <Guest22033> mari   new ships    new staions    bas
18:13:20  <Guest22033> can someone recommend something another very good scenarion with different trains,ships etc than stock is
18:13:27  <FLHerne> Guest22033: You need some specific older version of those grfs
18:13:39  <FLHerne> You might be able to find them on the forum somewhere
18:14:19  <nielsm> and that'
18:14:39  <nielsm> and that's (part of) why it's silly to not want your stuff on bananas...
18:21:53  <Guest22033> if i download some newfrf in game will it be avalaible for all scenarios
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18:45:39  <mcbanhas> got a question, are there no plans to convert the vanilla vehicles to double livery in OpenGFX? This would be useful for identifying groups in multiplayer and such, and it should be a relatively easy thing to do.
18:46:20  <TrueBrain> I don't think there are any plans as such for OpenGFX, but contributions are always welcome; especially as it is considered this easy :)
18:46:25  <TrueBrain> good way to get started ;)
18:46:48  <mcbanhas> I'm not good with graphics, but I can give it a shot
18:48:24  <mcbanhas> I was wondering mostly if there would be an objection against it
18:48:45  <TrueBrain> you can always start it off in a new GRF, and see how people react
18:52:40  <frosch123> mcbanhas: take a look at opengfx+vehicles
18:53:03  <frosch123> all the "opengfx+" projects are exactly that. extending the original stuff with new options
18:57:39  <mcbanhas> opengfx+ projects also add a lot of additional stuff
18:58:10  <mcbanhas> I'm talking more about updating the opengfx package to support what is now a core feature
18:58:36  <frosch123> 2cc is not a core feature
18:59:26  <mcbanhas> dual liveries you mean?
18:59:33  <frosch123> yes
18:59:40  <mcbanhas> i mean it's there by default
19:00:04  <mcbanhas> it's no part of the original TTD, but it's a core OpenTTD feature
19:00:12  <mcbanhas> it's not an add on
19:00:20  <frosch123> no idea what your defintion of addon is
19:00:40  <frosch123> but dual colors are an add-on
19:00:47  <frosch123> the original vehicles can be green
19:00:55  <frosch123> while 2cc vehicles cannot
19:01:11  <frosch123> the feature set of baseset are frozen since 1995
19:01:19  <frosch123> they don't gain stuff
19:01:51  <LordAro> (new graphics excluded)
19:05:24  <mcbanhas> how does that relate with opengfx?
19:05:30  <mcbanhas> I'm not sure I'm following here
19:05:44  <LordAro> opengfx is a base set
19:06:01  <LordAro> the only things it can have are the sprites defined to be in the base set
19:06:05  <LordAro> no shiny features
19:08:52  <mcbanhas> my point is the base set should be compatible with a feature that is now part of the game, namely dual liveries). It's not a shiny feature per se, it's literally coded into openttd without any external downloads needed
19:09:22  <mcbanhas> and moreover it does have a practical use
19:09:33  <frosch123> you are argueing
19:09:46  <frosch123> but there is no argueing, there is a technical reason that opengfx will never get that feature
19:09:52  <mcbanhas> why so
19:10:05  <frosch123> because that is how basesets and newgrf work
19:10:16  <mcbanhas> how so
19:10:34  <frosch123> <- have a read
19:10:52  <frosch123> will take a few weeks, you can't summarize that on irc
19:11:48  <mcbanhas> that's a non-answer, you can't answer a question but saying "it's a technical matter and then throwing me an entire manual to read
19:12:10  <frosch123> you are asking why the wall is solid
19:12:32  <frosch123> either learn the technical stuff, or accept the short answers
19:12:38  <LordAro> NewGRF format is fixed, and has been since the late 90s
19:12:41  <LordAro> it cannot be changed
19:14:01  <mcbanhas> frosch123: that's a false comparison. I can feel that a wall is solid and simple answers on why that happens is also possible without resorting to in-depth molecular physics
19:14:41  <nielsm> baseset grf's and newgrf's are different, as far as I know
19:14:44  <frosch123> well, i can't help you then
19:14:59  <nielsm> the baseset grf is not allowed to contain anything but bare realsprites
19:15:17  <TrueBrain> lol; I did not know that :D Learn something new every day ;)
19:15:52  <nielsm> that's actually just an assumption on my part, but I'm assuming that ottd baseset graphics follows the same basic rules as original transport tycoon/ttdpatch
19:16:27  <nielsm> the newgrf format is a hacked up version of the grf spriteset format from transport tycoon, there were never pseudosprites from chriw sawyer's hand
19:16:31  <mcbanhas> that would be my assumption too, but it's not a valid reason why they cannot at some point be modified or updated
19:17:14  <mcbanhas> but OpenGFX is technically a newgrf, or at least it is downloaded as such
19:17:14  <TrueBrain> nielsm: well, there is map-stuff in grfs :P (all I kinda know about that :D)
19:17:29  <TrueBrain> mcbanhas: that is the point they are trying to make: it is not a NewGRF
19:17:37  <TrueBrain> it is for sure not downloaded as such; it is downloaded as a Base Graphics
19:17:42  <TrueBrain> wherein there are a few grfs
19:17:49  <nielsm> I don't know how 2cc is done, but if it requires using action 2/3 chains to select a sprite variation then it means invoking reproducability across network
19:17:52  <TrueBrain> but as nielsm  mention, they clearly are not full-fletched NewGRFs
19:18:01  <nielsm> and then all players on a multiplayer server would have to use the same baseset
19:19:59  <glx> and opengfx can't have more "feature" than original base set
19:21:24  <nielsm> if grf container version 2 allowed multiple recolour masks in some form, to support multiple recolour layers, that could be an action-free way to support it
19:21:33  <nielsm> or maybe that would rather be a grf container version 3
19:22:47  <mcbanhas> so why was OpenGFX made this way though?
19:23:03  <nielsm> because it needs to be a drop-in replacement for the original base graphics
19:23:31  <mcbanhas> i get that, but it could be that and support extra features
19:24:46  <mcbanhas> restricting it to the exact  limitations of the original sounds of an arbitrary design choice
19:24:56  <TrueBrain> could would should .. but what problem are you now trying to solve? :)
19:25:09  <TrueBrain> especially given you can download any other NewGRF which does add this functionality
19:25:24  <nielsm> yes it's "arbitrary" in the sense that it could be worked around, if you made some major architectural changes and huge swathes of rewrites of the entire game
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19:25:41  <glx> no, because if in network game one player is using original baseset and the other is using opengfx with added feature, desync is highly probable
19:27:16  <mcbanhas> ok, now you're stating to make sense, but are dual liveries programmed as such it is truly impossible?
19:28:02  <nielsm> mcbanhas how much do you know about newgrf programming?
19:28:14  <nielsm> do you know what action 0, action 2 and action 3 are?
19:28:18  <glx> there are newgrf to add 2cc to base vehicle
19:28:48  <mcbanhas> pretty much nothing, hence why I am asking
19:29:45  <nielsm> okay, the core idea is that the game has a base vehicle set with hardcoded values and sprite id's into the baseset
19:30:19  <nielsm> there is only support for one company recolour natively, due to the limitations of the 256 colour palette, changing the palette is not possible as that would break compatibility
19:30:46  <mcbanhas> alright, that's a reasonable answer
19:30:58  <mcbanhas> thank you
19:31:19  <nielsm> to implement 2cc a newgrf needs to define new or redefine existing vehicles, such that it can define callbacks that fetch appropriate sprites based on selected company livery
19:31:40  <nielsm> this fetching of sprites can be non-deterministic and invoke other behaviour
19:32:18  <nielsm> the core game design of openttd revolves around "commands", which are used whenever a player does something, and apart from that it needs to simulate the exact same things on all clients participating in a multiplayer game
19:32:33  <nielsm> if something causes two clients to end up with different simulation results, you get a desync
19:32:55  <nielsm> that something could be newgrfs doing different things on each client
19:33:54  <nielsm> so if you allowed basesets to define new vehicles using callbacks to select different graphics based on various things, and keep allowing players to use different basesets, then you could have players participating in a game where their basesets cause simulation desyncs
19:34:04  <nielsm> I hope that made sense and I didn't skip too many details
19:34:08  <mcbanhas> yeah, hence why players with have to mandatorily share the same packages if playing with newgrfs online
19:34:45  <mcbanhas> no, that was a lovely answer, in fact you went too much into detail. I got it when you explained the limits of the 256 color palette
19:34:57  <nielsm> :D
19:35:01  <glx> every player MUST have the exact same newgrfs online for this reason
19:36:03  <glx> some newgrf can be used in "static" mode, but openttd checks they can't cause desyncs
19:36:18  <nielsm> even with basesets that use 32bpp sprites (mainly aBase and zBase) they still need to provide 8bpp sprites, and 32bpp sprites still only support one recolour layer
19:37:24  <mcbanhas> that sucks a wee bit though, because it means the base vehicle set can never be upgraded with new vehicles to match coming upgrades such as the in-progress water depth feature
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19:38:35  <glx> that's possible because we provide new graphics usually, and there's a mechanism for baseset to be able to replace them
19:39:20  <mcbanhas> what new graphics are currently included actually?
19:39:34  <nielsm> rivers/canals/waterlocks
19:39:41  <nielsm> various GUI sprites
19:39:42  <glx> tramway, new signals
19:39:59  <mcbanhas> oh yeah the path signals, i forgot about that
19:40:11  <glx> basically action 5 :)
19:40:14  <mcbanhas> how are they rendered with the original TTD base set?
19:40:31  <andythenorth> but....
19:40:41  <andythenorth> we could move all the default vehicles to an included newgrf
19:40:43  <mcbanhas> are the new sprites within the OpenTTD package itself?
19:40:46  <andythenorth> adding 2CC
19:40:48  <andythenorth> refittability
19:40:51  <andythenorth> cargo labels
19:40:52  <andythenorth> trams
19:40:53  <nielsm> orig_extra.grf
19:40:58  <andythenorth> but I doubt we will
19:41:07  <nielsm> is a sprite-addition set that ships with ottd
19:41:34  <glx> andythenorth: would mean openttd is responsible for the full grf ;)
19:41:51  <andythenorth> is that an upside or a downside?
19:42:31  <mcbanhas> andythenorth: would rather have an entirely new landscape over that I think
19:42:54  <glx> and including it in all openttd packages is silly because it rarely changes
19:46:03  <_dp_> are there any patches that combine normal view and minimap mode?
19:46:31  <_dp_> I vaguely remember there being something but can't find anything
19:47:39  <nielsm> wow... the drum set is aggressive on this yamaha MU50 sound module
19:51:05  <FLHerne> mcbanhas: There's a set of "OpenGFX+" newgrfs
19:51:28  <FLHerne> mcbanhas: OpenGFX+ {Trains, Airports, Landscape, Trees...}
19:52:34  <FLHerne> mcbanhas: Which do pretty much what you're proposing - they're similar to the original game elements while taking advantage of OpenTTD's newer features
19:52:51  <FLHerne> e.g. OpenGFX+ Airports are rotateable and climate-aware
19:53:51  <Wolf01> Needs OpenGFX+ roads now :P
19:54:07  <FLHerne> And OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles includes trams
19:55:03  <mcbanhas> I'm fiddling with the parameters for that now actually
19:57:54  <mcbanhas> I don't think OpenGFX+ trains has 2cc
19:58:01  <mcbanhas> a least as far as I can see on the parameters
20:04:04  <FLHerne> Hm, doesn't seem to
20:04:11  <FLHerne> But it could :P
20:10:20  <mcbanhas> I make a thread about fixing grammar, and suddenly a guy comes out of nowhere and wants to overhaul the entire UI
20:10:28  <mcbanhas> the screenshots he posted are nuts
20:10:36  <Samu> what is xtree and xstddef ?
20:12:10  <glx> system includes
20:14:46  <nielsm> implementation details in microsoft's c++ standard library
20:15:23  <Samu> hmm, so they are doing the sort
20:16:22  <Samu> script list sorter uses buckets?
20:16:36  <Samu> slightly confusing, but whatever it is, it's faster
20:16:48  <mcbanhas> andythenorth: is there any place where i can see the full list of trains for Iron Horse?
20:17:19  <mcbanhas> the first post in the official thread seems out of date
20:17:55  <milek7> mcbanhas: ah, that one :D
20:18:01  <milek7> I'm always surprised of quality of his mockups ;P
20:21:05  <Samu> bucket queue
20:21:10  <Samu> so that's what it's called
20:21:31  <mcbanhas> milek7: i'm wondering if that's just a mockup or if he already programmed the whole thing
20:21:35  <mcbanhas> if so it would be nuts
20:21:50  <glx> mockup I think
20:22:16  <glx> coding that would be a pain :)
20:23:49  <mcbanhas> yeah, he's envisioning a whole set of conditional orders that simply do not exist in the game yet
20:24:08  <andythenorth> oof
20:24:28  <andythenorth> speaking from very personal experience
20:24:39  <mcbanhas> I do however see his concept of fusing timetables and orders in the same window working tho
20:24:42  <LordAro> looks factorio inspired
20:24:45  <andythenorth> adding bevels and shading to everything does not a more usable UI make
20:24:58  <andythenorth> I have committed this error at least twice personally
20:25:14  <LordAro> .andythenorth { border-shadow: 5px; }
20:25:15  <andythenorth> it's a nice retro reminder of winamp though
20:25:23  <mcbanhas> lol
20:25:38  <andythenorth> it's not like the current UI is usable
20:25:39  <mcbanhas> really whips the lamma's ass
20:25:44  <andythenorth> but I am used to it, so eh
20:26:35  <mcbanhas> wouldn't be bad idea to discuss some of his concepts tho
20:26:38  <milek7> he makes mockups and then searches someone to code it ;)
20:26:57  <milek7> "New World Disorder" GS is collaboration of that sort (I didn't finish coding, though)
20:27:29  <mcbanhas> he does seem to have some solutions for present problems tho
20:27:55  <glx> I think most of the devs would agree about some windows needing improvements, but hey we are coders, not UI specialists ;)
20:27:58  <mcbanhas> like I can see the way how he put orders and timetables in the same window working
20:28:09  <andythenorth> glx speak forself :P
20:28:14  <andythenorth> I am the opposite :P
20:28:30  <mcbanhas> yeah that's usually the problem with a lot of open source games
20:28:36  <andythenorth> hmm, I'm not convinced that brining "they don't work" timetables into the orders window does anything but destroy the orders window
20:28:43  <mcbanhas> they end up being made for programmers by programmers
20:28:43  <andythenorth> bringing *
20:29:10  <andythenorth> if I forked openttd, conditional orders and timetables would be deleted
20:29:41  <andythenorth> and everything else would be unicorns
20:29:44  <glx> at least working on the GUI side now is easier than it was some years ago :)
20:30:01  <mcbanhas> timetables are just useless for me ATM. i heard there's a patch that improves it somehow though
20:30:17  <LordAro> glx: gotta be careful with that, albert's GUI rework was about 10 years ago :p
20:30:36  <glx> wow already ?
20:30:44  <andythenorth> I added windowshade to the station window
20:30:47  <andythenorth> that was easy
20:31:05  <frosch123> glx: ottd 1.x was released in 2010+x
20:31:12  <frosch123> very easy rule
20:31:18  <andythenorth> I released child #1 in 2010
20:31:33  <glx> map array was a pain before we added accessors to it
20:31:46  <andythenorth> are we rewriting the economy then?
20:31:56  <andythenorth> I'm scared to ask, someone usually rage quits the discussion
20:33:06  <frosch123> why are there 171 people here?
20:33:12  <frosch123> all matrix zombies?
20:33:26  <frosch123> channel norm used to be 100-130
20:34:10  <TrueBrain> frosch123: how did it go with the API?
20:34:14  <TrueBrain> got it working with your frontend?
20:34:27  <frosch123> i only procrastinated
20:34:34  <TrueBrain> :(
20:34:40  <TrueBrain> you think we will make the end of the month? :D
20:35:27  <frosch123> if i ignore the swagger stuff, i can finish all except the tus stuff tomorrow
20:35:39  <TrueBrain> what did you want to do with swagger? :)
20:35:39  <frosch123> the swagger stuff does not appear helpful to me
20:36:12  <mcbanhas> I think that all in all it's worthwhile to work with a UI designer like this guy to come up with a solution to improve the UI
20:36:19  <frosch123> i think i am just going to pass json dicts around, and do not do any validation
20:36:24  <TrueBrain> just look at the swagger as a way to communicate between you and me how the API should look frosch123 ; and don't give it any more attention :)
20:36:28  <TrueBrain> that is fine for now
20:36:32  <TrueBrain> build first, improve later
20:36:57  <andythenorth> mcbanhas I honestly think that's the worst thing we could do
20:37:05  <andythenorth> being polite about it, his UIs are shit
20:37:17  <andythenorth> I don't like to slag people off in the channel, it's rude
20:37:21  <andythenorth> but they're awful
20:37:37  <TrueBrain> frosch123: tomorrow I hope to finish routing the network on AWS .. if you like I can take a look at tus after that?
20:37:43  <TrueBrain> shouldn't be too hard from what I read
20:37:58  <mcbanhas> well I mean with him or anyone else that knows about UIs
20:38:17  <andythenorth>
20:38:27  <andythenorth> I won't touch OpenTTD UI, it's a tar pit
20:38:51  <andythenorth> there's absolutely no possibility for deleting *any* features, no matter how bad
20:38:59  <andythenorth> which means good UI design is impossible
20:39:02  <mcbanhas> yeah but you can't think only like a programmer for these matters
20:39:08  <LordAro> i don't think that's entirely true
20:39:15  <andythenorth> mcbanhas FWIW I am a UI designer with millions of users
20:39:21  <TrueBrain> frosch123: after that we ask andythenorth or LordAro  nicely to add some CSS :D
20:39:32  <LordAro> but we'd have to be pretty sure
20:39:35  <LordAro> TrueBrain: :<
20:39:53  <andythenorth> not bragging, I just have looked at OpenTTD UI and backed away
20:40:27  <mcbanhas> i think it should be possible to fix some things here and there without setting fire to the whole thing and starting over
20:40:40  <TrueBrain> LordAro: we really need help .. deadline is the end of this month :)
20:40:56  <LordAro> css isn't part of that deadline :p
20:41:01  <LordAro> and basic css is trivial
20:41:04  <andythenorth> +1
20:41:06  <TrueBrain> exactly
20:41:10  <TrueBrain> so we need someone to do it :)
20:41:16  <andythenorth> we really need to just reuse the current skin
20:41:24  <TrueBrain> and if you have seen what frosch123 's site looks like .. that basic CSS part, is needed :P
20:41:30  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: sure, I am fine with that
20:41:30  <andythenorth> we shouldn't confuse a reimplementation with a new skin
20:41:32  <TrueBrain> it just needs doing
20:41:33  <LordAro> haha
20:41:39  <Samu> there is no Bucket Heap when I try to search for it
20:41:51  <LordAro> just for clarification - TrueBrain is talking about new bananas, andythenorth is talking about OTTD UI
20:41:53  <Samu> is it just called Bucket Queue
20:41:54  <andythenorth> frosch123 so what, the current skin needs retemplated from django templates?
20:41:55  <Samu> =
20:42:05  <mcbanhas> got it
20:42:10  <andythenorth> sorry mcbanhas :)
20:42:16  <andythenorth> 2x UI conversation
20:42:20  <mcbanhas> I wouldn't change the UI skin either
20:42:30  <TrueBrain> LordAro: we are? Well, I know andythenorth  thinks the same about the website :)
20:42:36  <andythenorth> I do
20:42:39  <TrueBrain> we just needs some hands to make it happen ;)
20:42:40  <andythenorth> I changed track sorry
20:42:56  * andythenorth apologises to everyone
20:43:04  <frosch123> andythenorth: <- just add whatever you need
20:43:50  <andythenorth> oh it's flask
20:43:58  <andythenorth> there's a chance it might actually build for me
20:43:58  <frosch123> when you scream, you have found my easteregg :)
20:44:38  <andythenorth> you have a built-in DMCA takedown form? :o
20:44:41  <andythenorth> how does that work?
20:45:48  * andythenorth probably has old bananas skin checked out somewhere
20:45:54  <andythenorth> I changed it once
20:46:20  <mcbanhas> you're adding a new skin to bananas?
20:46:35  <andythenorth> current bananas dies at the end of April
20:46:40  <andythenorth> 'we' have to write a new one
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20:48:32  <mcbanhas_> oh btw, once I have a good draft for the manual of style I'm working on, would you prefer me to submit a PR with it, or should i just put it on the wiki?
20:48:50  <mcbanhas_> I'm asking because the current coding style guide is only on the wiki itself AFAIK
20:49:38  <andythenorth> the majority of docs are on the wiki
20:49:43  <andythenorth> github docs are minimalist
20:50:22  <mcbanhas_> I began writing it on markdown for that purpose
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20:55:48  <_dp_> how to call company that takes cargo from the industry?
20:55:54  <_dp_> opposite of supplier I guess
20:57:18  <nielsm> transporter?
20:57:56  <nielsm> carrier?
20:58:09  <_dp_> that's any direction
20:58:12  <_dp_> I think consumer
20:59:07  <luaduck> stupid question, does OpenTTD support displaying IPv6 addresses in the console? (I think I asked this before but I lost my IRC scrollback)
20:59:35  <andythenorth> customer or consumer
20:59:38  <andythenorth> downstream
20:59:53  <andythenorth> recipient, destination
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21:04:12  <_dp_> Hm, interesting, industry has an owner
21:04:21  <_dp_> but it can only be OWNER_NONE %)
21:04:37  <_dp_> wtf xD
21:07:24  <nielsm> sounds like a feature that was never implemented
21:10:33  <frosch123> there is a second "founder" or something
21:11:02  <_dp_> lol, owner goes back to r1
21:11:11  <frosch123> _dp_: GSCargoMonitor calls them Pickup and Delivery
21:11:56  <nielsm> supply carrier, production carrier
21:13:02  <_dp_> frosch123, isn't that an act of moving cargo, not the company that does it?
21:13:25  <_dp_> I think supplier and consumer are the best terms
21:14:21  <nielsm> the transport company does not buy the cargo from the producing industry and sell it to the taking industry
21:14:26  <glx> luaduck: it should, at least dedicated server shows local IP (both v4 and v6) on start
21:14:32  <andythenorth> so I have an 800 litre inflatable hot tub on decking
21:14:38  <andythenorth> and it turns out the decking is rotten
21:14:44  <nielsm> so the transport company is not a consumer or supplier
21:14:50  <andythenorth> "Do you wish to continue y/n?"
21:15:53  <nielsm> is this one of the joys of being a homeowner?
21:16:01  <andythenorth> seems
21:16:06  <andythenorth> I can live dangerously
21:16:10  <andythenorth> or die stupidly
21:16:45  <LordAro> imagine having a hot tub in England
21:16:59  <frosch123> _dp_: ottd 0.1 (pretty close to CS) already has owner as parameter to DoCreateNewIndustry, and it is only called with OWNER_NONE constant
21:17:31  <andythenorth> LordAro I don't have to imagine :)
21:17:36  <_dp_> frosch123, xD
21:17:54  <_dp_> well, I guess nobody would mind if I delete it then :p
21:18:27  <frosch123> it ottd 0.1 it is used to fill the landinfo window :p
21:18:36  <_dp_> rofl
21:18:45  <frosch123> _dp_: ottd generally used "founder", which was added later and has meaning
21:18:56  <frosch123> owner is indeed useless
21:19:13  <_dp_> yeah, I'm not touching founder
21:24:35  <_dp_> nielsm, don't think payment is absolutely necessary to be called consumer or supplier :p
21:24:53  <_dp_> also it's just a quirk of a broken openttd economy
21:27:26  <milek7> andythenorth: I don't think personal preference of bevels is really important in that discussion
21:27:31  <milek7> apart from horrid contrast on some rows, general idea certainly isn't worse than current ui
21:27:36  <milek7> with plaintext list and matrix of modification buttons (and dropdowns) stashed aside
21:28:34  <andythenorth> ok
21:28:43  <andythenorth> I have spent 20 years getting paid to argue about UI
21:29:03  <andythenorth> that order window is absolute shit, with or without bevels
21:29:21  <andythenorth> it's also one of those stupid tarpits, OpenTTD UI cannot be fixed
21:29:28  <andythenorth> hot air arguments
21:29:31  <andythenorth> :)
21:29:36  <_dp_> would it be better with an ornament? xDDD
21:29:49  <andythenorth> it would be....different
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21:30:26  <andythenorth> we could try it for one release, remove it in the next? o_O
21:30:30  <andythenorth> Apple do that in macOS
21:30:36  <andythenorth> Feature: transparency in menus
21:30:48  <andythenorth> Feature: menus are no longer transparent, for better legibility
21:30:50  <andythenorth> repeat
21:30:52  <mcbanhas_> I don't think the current UI is (that) bad, it just has some stuff that shouldn't be on top of each other
21:31:44  <andythenorth> most people confuse the UI with buttons
21:31:51  <andythenorth> UI is the tools
21:32:10  <_dp_> lmao, yeah, current UI is bad but not THAT bad...
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21:33:10  <andythenorth> until we're prepared to delete things that don't work, like timetables and conditional orders
21:33:13  <mcbanhas_> incidentally I do agree we should get rid of timetables in its current form
21:33:17  <andythenorth> changing the button style is this
21:33:29  <andythenorth> timetables literally doesn't work
21:33:36  <andythenorth> but eh
21:33:54  <mcbanhas_> But I still would like something to have buses behave in a more civilmanner
21:34:10  * andythenorth heads towards ASD obsession about certain issues, sorry, UX is one of them
21:34:19  <andythenorth> I am not ASD according to 'test on the internet'
21:35:01  * andythenorth back to cargos
21:35:35  <Samu> anyone here can help me with this? , on the descriptions where it says "The complexion of this operation is UNKNOWN", if anyone actually knows the complexity or Script Lists, which is using bucket sort
21:35:43  <mcbanhas_> andythenorth: btw I asked b4 if you have a list of all the trains in Iron Horse, since the one on the thread seems outdated
21:35:55  <Samu> plz tell
21:36:05  <andythenorth> this is recent-ish mcbanhas_
21:36:10  <andythenorth> that url is not permanent
21:36:23  <mcbanhas_> lovely, thanks
21:36:35  <andythenorth> there's a tech tree as well
21:37:45  <FLHerne> mcbanhas_: You can set "vehicles never expire", set year to 3000, and see all of them :P
21:38:02  <FLHerne> andythenorth: "1 rosters of trains for OpenTTD"
21:38:06  <_dp_> Samu, heaps are usually logarithmic, buckets are usually squared, but tf is that thing I've no idea :p
21:38:07  <andythenorth> oof
21:38:19  <andythenorth> ${'s' if len(foo) > 0 else ''}
21:38:22  <andythenorth> is missing
21:38:33  <mcbanhas_> I just love your trains man, you gonna do american inspired stuff at some point?
21:38:34  <andythenorth> or alternately, the other rosters :P
21:38:44  <andythenorth> mcbanhas_ depending on death or disability, yes
21:38:48  <andythenorth> eventually
21:38:49  <mcbanhas_> FLHerne: good point, thanks fo the suggestion
21:38:55  <Samu> _dp_ you have to look inside openttd code, for how ScriptList uses the buckets
21:39:08  <Samu> let me find it
21:39:09  <mcbanhas_> separate pack or same?
21:39:23  <mcbanhas_> all these look like brit stuff
21:39:36  <andythenorth> same grf, different parameter
21:39:58  <mcbanhas_> aha
21:40:21  <Samu>
21:40:55  <Samu> this is sorting by value, ascending, so line 543
21:42:19  <Samu> "The complexity of this operation is UNKNOWN", I typed uknown because I don't really know, it's a placeholder
21:42:41  <Samu> if you actually can figure them out, i'll appreciate
21:45:12  <andythenorth> mcbanhas_
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21:47:11  <mcbanhas_> very nice man, I see E-unit loco inspired stuff on the top
21:47:47  <mcbanhas_> also amtrak double decker carriages at the bottom?
21:48:59  <milek7> I was just trying to get what threw you off in that window
21:49:04  <milek7> but if 'is absolute shit' was just statement without explaination, not meant to be discussed, then.. ok
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21:50:44  <andythenorth> it's very hard to explain how wrong that UI is :)
21:50:52  <andythenorth> like, it just starts wrong, and carries on
21:51:04  <andythenorth> oops router reboot time
21:52:11  <mcbanhas_> milek7: I think andythenorth means the functions provided by the user interface
21:52:19  <mcbanhas_> not necessarily how they're displayed
21:52:34  <_dp_> lol, stl conversion was a bit too straightforward here xD
21:52:47  <_dp_> if flag use sort if not use sort anyway xD
21:53:04  <LordAro> i noticed that the other day
21:53:10  <LordAro> doc comment doesn't match anymore either :)
21:53:25  <_dp_> second one should probably be stable_sort judging by that comment
21:53:50  <LordAro> possibly, yeah
21:54:05  <LordAro> if indeed that's faster with "nearly sorted" data
21:54:33  <_dp_> it is in gcc but I don't think it's guaranteed by the standard
21:54:37  <andythenorth> hmm
21:54:46  <LordAro> mm, i wouldn't have thought so
21:54:50  * andythenorth needs natural gas cargo
21:54:54  <LordAro> might just be easier to just remove the flag entirely :p
21:55:01  <andythenorth> Error: pipelines not found :P
21:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause> how could the standard guarantee that?
21:55:17  <_dp_> logically speaking stable_sort should be merge sort or similar
21:55:30  <luaduck> glx: ipv6 addresses show up as "" in clients
21:55:49  <luaduck> not sure if that's just a quirk of my networking setup but I don't think it is?
21:56:10  <LordAro> luaduck: ipv6 certainly should work
21:56:17  <LordAro> and does in many other cases
21:56:53  <LordAro> luaduck: however, that is part of the RFC 1918 private range
21:57:01  <LordAro> are you sure you're not actually using ipv4?
21:57:13  <luaduck> 100% sure I'm connecting via ipv6
21:57:37  <luaduck> IPv4 clients have the correct addresses so it's not a bridging problem
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21:59:27  <LordAro> have you any idea where the could've come from? any part of your current network setup use anything similar?
22:00:57  <andythenorth> cargo label for aluminia? :)
22:01:05  <andythenorth> ALUM is Aluminium
22:02:15  <nielsm> AlO_
22:02:44  <andythenorth> good call
22:03:09  <andythenorth>
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22:07:23  <andythenorth> 'Aluminia' or 'Aluminium Oxide'?
22:07:44  <FLHerne> 'Alumina', no second 'i'?
22:08:16  <FLHerne> And I think everyone uses the first one
22:08:40  <FLHerne> The alumina train to the smelter at Fort William is called that
22:09:02  <andythenorth> exactly :)
22:09:15  <glx> luaduck: all display use NetworkAddress::GetHostname() and it works
22:09:25  <luaduck> glx: hm, probably something fucky with my network stack then
22:09:28  <luaduck> will investigate in more detail
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23:09:00  <milek7> hmm
23:09:01  <milek7>
23:09:25  <milek7> before/after signing :P
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