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Log for #openttd on 2nd May 2020:
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06:24:51  <andythenorth> o/
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07:30:55  <Wolf01> andythenorth: https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aEPvEEp_460s.jpg you must buy this one for your wife... btw, wrong model choice in that image
07:33:16  <andythenorth> isn't it
07:33:47  <Wolf01> Does he have a husband?
07:37:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman approved pull request #115: Fix #112: prevent __version__.py regeneration for source package https://git.io/Jf30t
07:38:52  <Wolf01> andythenorth: I think you might appreciate this one https://youtu.be/vcCghbFhIA4 (this month on humble choices)
07:39:57  <andythenorth> I like the art style
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08:01:05  <Flygon> Well, this's annoying.
08:01:23  <Flygon> I have a train that doesn't want to route to a station that it has a clear route to.
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08:05:13  <Wolf01> Missing catenary somewhere?
08:05:20  <Flygon> I don't think so.
08:05:25  <Flygon> If I force it to skip a waypoint.
08:05:31  <Flygon> It WILL go to the platforms I want it to go to.
08:05:37  <Wolf01> We need an overlay which activates with the convert tool
08:05:47  <Flygon> So I think something involving waypoint routing is going weird.
08:06:04  <Wolf01> Highlights in red the tracks of a different type
08:06:18  <Wolf01> And yellow the different but compatible ones
08:10:27  <Flygon> If the issue happens again, I'll take screenshots.
08:10:39  <Flygon> I can probably try and work around it anyway.
08:14:18  <Flygon> Okay so.
08:14:28  <Flygon> I solved the issue by. Not solving it. It's a pathfinding bug.
08:14:38  <Flygon> I just made all the waypoints to the platforms the same distance apart.
08:14:49  <Flygon> Rather than some being 4 tiles away, and others being 14 tiles away.
08:15:10  <Flygon> Also I just realized that since this is the jgrpp, this is probably the wrong channel to muse. :D
08:15:41  <Flygon> Sorry for the mess!
08:16:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #8093: Regular server desynchronisations from clients https://git.io/JfkmV
08:35:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain commented on pull request #115: Fix #112: prevent __version__.py regeneration for source package https://git.io/Jf3EZ
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08:44:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] TrueBrain requested changes for pull request #115: Fix #112: prevent __version__.py regeneration for source package https://git.io/Jf3E2
09:44:18  <Samu> need a bit of help commenting this function https://pastebin.com/raw/KhCZbAAV
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10:48:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andrem0 opened pull request #8106: Update norwegian_bokmal.txt plural fix https://git.io/Jf3zV
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12:40:24  <andythenorth> quiet eh
12:42:32  <andythenorth> was nml released? :)
12:51:40  <glx> not yet, I need to rework #115
13:14:05  <FLHerne> glx: I'm not sure 115 is the right fix?
13:14:48  <FLHerne> glx: If I understand correctly, the problem is that the unpacked nml source is inside a different git repo
13:15:24  <FLHerne> In which case isn't the right fix to check whether the root of the current git repo is where it's expected to be, and abort otherwise?
13:17:08  <FLHerne> blathijs: Is my understanding ^ of 112 correct? ;-)
13:17:30  <glx> it's hard to check if it's a nml repo I think
13:23:11  <TrueBrain> I really would suggest not going to route :)
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13:23:51  <supermop_Home_> andythenorth I need some of that better living over here
13:24:20  <TrueBrain> normally, what you want, after packaging a tarball, that any git-info is removed
13:24:23  <TrueBrain> so no .git folder nothing
13:24:29  <TrueBrain> and that is the moment you want to use a pre-defined version
13:24:54  <TrueBrain> so still doing any form of VCS detection after someone unpacks a tarball, is asking for a bit of trouble, one way or the other
13:26:02  <glx> I think my idea to add the "release=" line is ok, just the way to set the value is wrong
13:26:53  <TrueBrain> not sure; I think hooking into the 'build' command is the more clean way, but in the end, I personally don't really care :) Just as long as you document your choice ;) And if possible, don't like it to GitHub Actions :)
13:28:49  <TrueBrain> as, lets face it, we are going to have this wrong a few more times anyway :P Pretty sure we will find an edge case with the OpenTTD system one of these days too :D
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14:15:51  <Samu> I need a pathfinder expert. What is "estimate_multiplier" supposed to do? I just implemented it on the pathfinder and it magically became fast!
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14:21:12  <Samu_> ah, so this is where it came from... https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=767157#p767157
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14:48:06  <Samu> this estimate multiplier is absolutely magic!
14:48:25  <Samu> takes 52 days only to pathfind from 1,1 to 4094,4094
14:48:31  <Samu> super fast
14:48:56  <nielsm> yes it's going to be faster when it makes assumptions and guesswork and doesn't try to be perfect
14:50:08  <Samu> took a year to actually build the canals
14:50:17  <Samu> much longer than pathfinding
14:50:54  <nielsm> yeah you probably can't assume the found path remains valid for that time
14:52:45  <Samu> yexo is a genius
14:54:20  <nielsm> what might be a better idea is maybe make a very rough estimate path as a guide, then make more exact sub-paths along the route while constructing
14:57:41  <Samu> got a crash, wondering if it also crashes in 1.10.1
15:05:17  <Samu> crashed in 1.10.1 too
15:06:38  <Samu> openttd.exe!SQInstance::Release() Line 145
15:06:38  <Samu> 	at d:\a\s\srcrdparty\squirrel\squirrel\sqclass.h(145)
15:07:04  <Samu> this->~SQInstance();
15:07:14  <Samu> looks like path was too long?
15:09:05  <Samu> no crash log files generated :(
15:09:36  <glx> for me it's the usual memory crash
15:10:29  <Samu> it didn't use much memory at all
15:10:59  <Samu> gonna try on a 2048x4096 map
15:13:13  <Samu> i no longer have the pathfinder caching
15:13:19  <Samu> it's memory light now
15:21:13  <Samu> no crash at this size
15:21:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andrem0 closed pull request #8106: Change norwegian_bokmal.txt plural fix https://git.io/Jf3zV
15:22:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andrem0 reopened pull request #8106: Change norwegian_bokmal.txt plural fix https://git.io/Jf3zV
15:23:43  <michi_cc> Samu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*_search_algorithm#Bounded_relaxation
15:27:21  <Samu> that jargon makes it too complicated for my head
15:31:44  <michi_cc> Samu: If you compare that animation with the one from the earlier example sections, the difference is quite visible.
15:32:53  <Samu> ah, so that's what estimated multiplier do?
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15:36:11  <FLHerne> Does anyone actually use the "line directive" support in nml?
15:38:03  <FLHerne> Removing it, and LinePosition in favour of just integers, reduces memory usage and parse time by 10% each
15:39:48  <andythenorth> what does it do?
15:40:57  <frosch123> FLHerne: yes, all pnml projects do
15:42:01  <frosch123> 5 years ago, i would have said that's the majority of projects, no idea today
15:42:06  <frosch123> opengfx certainly is
15:43:21  <FLHerne> Ok
15:43:57  <frosch123> ofc, it's only used when there is something wrong :)
15:44:36  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Allows nml to tell you the correct original source file and line, even when they've been munged together
15:45:16  <FLHerne> Using __slots__ on Position and its subclasses reduces total memory usage by ~5%, with no change to compile time
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15:54:59  <erikandre> Would there be a deb package for ubuntu 20.04 (LTS) with 1.10.1 ?
15:55:05  <frosch123> things start to get confusing... two people making similar newgrf sets have similar openttd/github names :)
15:55:29  <erikandre> Ive tried to install openttd with the apt-get tool. but there is only 1.9.3 (and my friend that host gameplay is on 1.10.1
15:56:36  <LordAro> erikandre: we could (theoretically) make a deb file for 1.10.1, but it's not up to us to get things into the official apt repos
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15:56:46  <frosch123> https://www.openttd.org/downloads/openttd-releases/latest.html <- there are .deb
15:56:48  <LordAro> they're usually frozen anyway
15:56:55  <frosch123> the official debian 1.10.1 will take another week or so
15:58:25  <erikandre> I thought that the deb file for 18.04 was gonna be possible to install on 20.04 LTS also
15:58:36  <erikandre> but of course i was wrong.
15:58:57  <LordAro> yeah, we probably need to add 20.04 to our release process now
15:59:05  <LordAro> but it wasn't released when 1.10.1 was :p
15:59:12  <Eddi|zuHause> no, those versions were never compatible with each other
16:00:40  <erikandre> its complaining about a Dependency is not satisfiable: libicu60 (>= 60.1-1~)
16:01:07  <LordAro> yeah, icu is always the incompatible one
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16:02:46  <erikandre> could it be possible, to ask you very kindly for a 1.10.1 deb file ? ;)
16:02:48  <andythenorth> FLHerne oh so it's the feature that tells me the error is in the wrong place?
16:02:53  <andythenorth> I hate that feature
16:03:03  <andythenorth> I always wondered why it was broken
16:03:05  <FLHerne> andythenorth: ?
16:03:37  <andythenorth> nmlc often gives me useless filenames and line numbers for parse errors
16:03:47  <andythenorth> as though it's working with a CPP includes compile
16:04:27  <FLHerne> If you're not using `# line [blah] or `# <number> <filename> [blah]` in your source, it does nothing
16:04:53  <andythenorth> ok so I might be conflating it with something else
16:04:55  <FLHerne> #line, rater
16:05:11  <andythenorth> why would anyone number source in nml?
16:05:14  * andythenorth confused
16:05:37  <FLHerne> " useless filenames and line numbers for parse errors" sounds like you're triggering it by accident somehow
16:05:51  <andythenorth> I haven't seen it for a while
16:06:27  <andythenorth> I removed all the CPP #include stuff, might not have seen it since then
16:06:35  <FLHerne> You don't have any such directives in current FIRS/Horse
16:06:38  <andythenorth> no
16:06:40  <andythenorth> pure python
16:06:52  <FLHerne> "CPP #include stuff" would do that
16:06:55  <andythenorth> right
16:07:04  <Wolf01> Oh, finally a modded bus/tram station in transport fever 2
16:07:08  <FLHerne> Because the CPP generates those directives when it does includes
16:07:11  <andythenorth> so one minor reason I got rid of it is that it gives junk errors
16:07:20  <andythenorth> it makes debugging ridiculously hard
16:07:24  <FLHerne> I don't see why they'd be junk though
16:07:41  <FLHerne> If the CPP is including includes, they should be right :P
16:07:52  <andythenorth> [emoji shrug]
16:07:58  <andythenorth> could have been EBKC
16:08:13  <andythenorth> I guess there are all those pnml projects though
16:08:27  <andythenorth> forums often directs people to copy an existing pnml project
16:08:31  <erikandre> So, Until debian pushes 1.10.1 i guess i have to try build the program by source , Make make insTALL and all that other crap
16:08:49  <andythenorth> FLHerne probably have to keep it :(
16:08:52  <andythenorth> urgh
16:12:03  <LordAro> erikandre: afraid so
16:12:46  <erikandre> Everything is better in windows. it just works.
16:13:19  <erikandre> If it had not been for det crappy windows driver and blackscreen in windows. i would have still got windows on my laptop.
16:14:26  <Wolf01> <erikandre> Everything is better in windows. it just works.  <- also on linux, just install a lot of dependencies and install packages from the sites instead of the package manager
16:18:17  <FLHerne> Wolf01: Well, OTTD doesn't have the "generic" binaries anymore
16:18:30  <Wolf01> "shit" :D
16:18:39  <andythenorth> FLHerne compile time flag to suppress line number crap? :P
16:18:41  <andythenorth> or enable it?
16:19:11  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Wouldn't work, needed at lexer generation time
16:19:17  <FLHerne> Well, for perf
16:19:41  <FLHerne> You could have a flag that just disabled the behaviour
16:22:56  <LordAro> erikandre: i think most linux users would violently disagree with "windows just works"
16:23:05  <LordAro> i'm on windows right now, and i certainly do
16:24:29  <andythenorth> nothing just works
16:24:40  <LordAro> pretty much
16:25:00  <andythenorth> macos used to 'just work' for a period of about 7 years, as long as you only used Apple and Adobe stuff, and nothing complicated, and you didn't want to sync your non-Apple phone
16:25:05  <andythenorth> and even that stopped
16:30:44  <_dp_> lol, yeah, windows just works until it doesn't xDDD
16:31:57  <glx> hmm #115 is annoying
16:33:42  <_dp_> though kind of starting to be the case with linux too sadly :(
16:33:52  <_dp_> hard to find good manuals amid the gui crap
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16:34:39  <FLHerne> glx: Which part?
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16:44:24  <LordAro> glx: how do other python packages do it? this can't be a hard problem
16:46:18  <LordAro> https://github.com/pypa/setuptools_scm black uses this
16:47:43  <LordAro> pycodestyle hardcodes it https://github.com/PyCQA/pycodestyle/blob/master/pycodestyle.py#L81
16:48:32  <LordAro> as does pyflakes
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17:06:31  <glx> I managed to always use content of __version__.py for setup.py unless the file doesn't exist
17:07:09  <glx> that's ok for compile farm, but for local version it's annoying to have to remove a file to test stuff
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17:09:50  <FLHerne> glx: Is there a hook so setup.py can know whether it's running `sdist` or not?
17:10:05  <FLHerne> I was reading the setuptools docs, but they're awful :-(
17:10:37  <glx> I can add a hook yes
17:11:45  <FLHerne> I mean, if it's running `sdist` it should set the version permanently
17:12:07  <glx> other packages need the permanent version too
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17:14:04  <glx> and yes setuptools doc is not very helpful
17:14:52  <glx> and source code doesn't help either as it extends distutils so you have to navigate in 2 source trees
17:19:59  <glx> and even if I can force the regeneration for the right commands it will still use the previous generated version in setup() call
17:21:33  <LordAro> glx: i'd strongly recommend just making use of some other module, like setuptools_scm
17:21:38  <LordAro> there's no point reinventing the wheel here
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18:06:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] giordy commented on issue #8019: AppImage support https://git.io/Jv0hG
18:32:00  <andythenorth> are we doing translations via PRs?
18:32:11  <nielsm> still no
19:20:14  <Samu> this site still doesn't work https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects
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19:56:42  <andythenorth> planetmaker ^ redmine is quietly 500-ing :)
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21:23:06  <blathijs> FLHerne: Re you earlier question: THat it is in a different git repo is not the problem, that just exposes the problem. The problem is IMHO that a release tarball actually looks at git data in the first place.
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21:25:39  <blathijs> glx: I thikn the ideal solution would be if __version__.py was generated during setup.py only inside the build directory, as TrueBrain suggested, so there is no need to remove it afterwards (in fact, there is never a reason to generate __version__.py outside of build in the git checkout itself, since there you can always just re-detect from git anyway)
21:28:08  <glx> I don't think it's possible, even setuptools_scm puts a file in source
21:29:47  <TrueBrain> setuptools cmdbuild is often used for this
21:29:54  <TrueBrain> take over the build step, and you can do ANYTHING :D
21:30:07  <TrueBrain> cmdclass -> build, I believe
21:30:11  <TrueBrain> in the setup {} blob
21:34:59  <blathijs> I think setup.py already has a custom cmdclass for something
21:35:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #115: Fix #112: prevent __version__.py regeneration for source package https://git.io/Jf373
21:35:28  <blathijs> I posted another summary of what I think would be the best approach (assuming setuptools can do it, but TrueBrain suggestion sounds feasible)
21:35:34  <blathijs> Gotta run now though!
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