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00:00:48 *** keoz has joined #openttd 00:33:50 *** keoz has quit IRC 00:36:31 *** arikover has quit IRC 00:38:47 *** urdh has joined #openttd 01:48:50 *** Progman has quit IRC 02:13:29 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 02:21:17 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:24:40 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:27:14 <supermop_Home> why is there no random rivers tool in scenario editor? 02:47:13 *** Lejving_ has joined #openttd 02:52:50 *** glx has quit IRC 02:52:55 *** Lejving has quit IRC 03:02:16 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:18:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:26:25 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 04:19:02 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:25:12 *** Laedek has quit IRC 04:29:14 *** EER has joined #openttd 04:32:07 *** keoz has joined #openttd 04:42:40 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 04:56:08 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 04:57:38 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 05:04:31 *** Gadg8eer has joined #openttd 05:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause> because you didn't write one? 05:19:55 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe i didn't... who knows :p 05:22:02 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 05:35:15 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 05:39:05 *** keoz has quit IRC 05:40:58 *** Gadg8eer has quit IRC 05:56:46 *** arikover has joined #openttd 06:02:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8233: Fix 63ccb36e: Incorrect string type for OrderBackup::name save/load https://git.io/JfN1i 06:05:02 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:07:19 <arikover> hello, and good morning/afternoon/evening (timezone-friendly greetings) 06:13:36 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 06:20:20 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 07:06:38 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 07:34:37 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:59:08 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 08:39:29 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 08:49:07 *** keoz has joined #openttd 08:51:42 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 09:16:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:20:10 *** Progman has quit IRC 09:20:48 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:21:18 *** cHawk- has quit IRC 09:29:06 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 09:40:36 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 09:50:49 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:05:16 <andythenorth> OpenTTD for ARM on macOS then? o_OO 10:09:44 <LordAro> easy enough 10:10:10 <LordAro> we already know it compiles to ARM easy enough (via android port if nothing else) 10:10:26 * andythenorth wonders what ARM Mac performance will be like 10:10:39 <andythenorth> full circle, my first computer was an Acorn A3000 10:12:33 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 10:17:38 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 10:21:38 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 11:13:34 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 11:42:52 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 11:43:06 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 11:50:44 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:06:07 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 12:13:29 <andythenorth> OMG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hg1JwwtMU2o 12:13:44 <andythenorth> how will we attract new players and popularity now :( 12:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently with overly dramatic music that doesn't fit the setting 12:21:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8231: Fix #8230: Resolve ".." when opening files in .tar https://git.io/Jfb1Q 12:21:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #8230: Cannot open the file when starting AI downloaded via online service https://git.io/JfbcQ 12:23:29 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:23:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:24:38 <FLHerne> andythenorth: It was fine on PPC Macs back in that day, nothing new 12:42:36 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 12:54:49 <supermop_Home> I need a way more more rivers than 'many' 12:56:01 <supermop_Home> also reloading the same heightmap multiple times gives some sort of non sensical rivers in the same place 13:35:10 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 13:49:44 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:14:53 <supermop_Home> andythenorth those miners seem to be just standing around doing a lot of nothing 14:23:47 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:34:33 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 14:39:58 <supermop_Home> i feel like coal and limestone, and potash should all be somewhat co-located? 14:40:20 <supermop_Home> iron ore would be in less sedimentary rock? 14:49:10 <supermop_Home> andythenorth: https://mrdata.usgs.gov/major-deposits/map-us.html#home 14:50:47 <andythenorth> supermop_Home plausible, not sure it works for actually generating industries reliably in current model 14:50:50 <andythenorth> needs 'regions' 14:56:17 <supermop_Home> im placing by hand now 14:57:38 <supermop_Home> assuming ill put iron in mountains in one area, coal and the rest in hills or flat areas on the other side of the map? 14:59:07 <supermop_Home> according to this map there sure is a bunch of zinc in the US 15:00:25 <supermop_Home> andy: rocky ground grey in coal / limestone region, red in iron or cinnabar areas? 15:03:09 <andythenorth> ha 15:07:25 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:08:33 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:19:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #6101: Hotkeys: using 2 byte language's letter in Hotkeys.cfg https://git.io/JfAQ9 15:22:51 <Timberwolf> supermop_Home: Full evil mode: coal/iron/cinnabar mines work like the tropical lumber mill. Enjoy rock planting. 15:25:54 <supermop_Home> coal mine: plant forest -> fast forward 100M years -> prospect mine 15:31:03 <supermop_Home> can industries check the flatness of their surrounding area? 15:31:15 <Timberwolf> "We have just designed a new dinosaur - would you be interested in a year's exclusive use of this reptile, so we can see how it performs before making it universally available?" 15:31:39 <supermop_Home> like pick open pit or shaft/drift based on terrain 15:34:13 <supermop_Home> or maybe having the different mines be different industries 15:41:48 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:43:48 <andythenorth> industries can check flatness 15:43:55 <andythenorth> it gets unwise quickly 15:49:58 *** cHawk has quit IRC 16:00:57 <supermop_Home> andythenorth not to allow / disallow, just to pick sprites? 16:01:53 <andythenorth> even worse, runs more often :) 16:04:04 <supermop_Home> hah 16:04:23 <supermop_Home> terraform and your open pit mine becomes a deep shaft? 16:08:39 <supermop_Home> after spending hours first fixing mountains so they don't have weird craters, and valleys so they flow down hill, then manually drawing in rivers, then placing towns (at bays on the coast, along rivers, not a city on mountain top) 16:08:57 <supermop_Home> then placing industries in sensible loctions 16:09:30 <supermop_Home> what are the chances i start the game an some newgrf thing is totally wrong 16:09:47 <supermop_Home> i'm betting on 1 in 3 16:10:11 *** keoz has quit IRC 16:15:16 <andythenorth> you probably have the wrong GS 16:15:31 <andythenorth> recently all my games I have forgotten that I have 10 Civil AI configured 16:15:39 <supermop_Home> haha 16:15:40 <andythenorth> this has...consequences 16:15:53 <andythenorth> and I never save and restart OpenTTD so the config changes never stick 16:15:57 <andythenorth> as I always crash it 16:16:42 <supermop_Home> mine is always computer restarts over night after a few days for some update 16:16:54 <LordAro> andythenorth: i've had similar issues 16:17:39 <andythenorth> it isn't something that should be fixed :) 16:17:43 <andythenorth> special class of user :P 16:18:33 <supermop_Home> i'd like a quick scenario editor 16:19:36 <supermop_Home> basically generates everything like you were starting a new game, then quickly check to delete any stupid industries or towns, then one button to immediate begin playing 16:22:11 <andythenorth> YES 16:22:15 <andythenorth> that 16:22:28 <andythenorth> it never occurred to me :) 16:22:41 <andythenorth> I usually generate 20-50 maps to get a new game 16:23:04 <andythenorth> some of the reasons are valid, eg. not enough coal mines or ore mines to be viable 16:23:19 <andythenorth> some are aesthetic (no port industries in tiny lakes) 16:23:22 <supermop_Home> that way you don't need to go down a rabbit hole of scenario editor time, nor do you have to save the scenario then load it 16:23:27 <andythenorth> some are stupid (some town names are a jinx) 16:23:28 <supermop_Home> exactly 16:23:53 <supermop_Home> stupid / distracting towns/water/industries 16:24:09 <supermop_Home> just needs like 90 seconds to fix it 16:24:38 <andythenorth> 'add more coal mines' :P 16:25:00 <supermop_Home> random industries by type also would be nice 16:25:10 <andythenorth> oh SE has no 'add random of type x' :o 16:25:14 <andythenorth> has to be placed manually 16:25:17 <supermop_Home> yeah 16:25:37 <andythenorth> supermop_Home probably a GS should do all this? o_O 16:25:42 * andythenorth is a terrible person 16:25:57 <supermop_Home> you can do many random (all) industries, many random towns, many random trees 16:26:18 <supermop_Home> you can also do single random town 16:26:51 <supermop_Home> single random industry of selected type - similar to towns - would be nice 16:27:18 <supermop_Home> many random and perhaps single random river would be nice too 16:28:00 <supermop_Home> or just random only (primary / secondary) industry 16:28:02 <nielsm> nah the scenario editor should also have a feature to just jump right into the game 16:28:07 <nielsm> like disk menu -> "play scenario now" 16:28:10 <supermop_Home> yeah 16:28:16 <supermop_Home> that's what i'm saying 16:28:38 <nielsm> brb, reboot 16:28:49 <supermop_Home> its too much fuss now, so typically we just re-roll new games over and over again to fix these small problems 16:29:05 <nielsm> (microsoft should make some more effort to not require visual studio updates to need a system reboot) 16:29:11 *** nielsm has quit IRC 16:29:33 <supermop_Home> where as SE -> roll game -> make small fixes -> one click to play would be nice 16:29:33 <andythenorth> I mean, fixing FIRS ports would solve 25% of my problems 16:29:44 <andythenorth> and 25% of the problems are problems only I have :P 16:30:19 <supermop_Home> it's just one button 16:31:19 <andythenorth> hmm 16:31:28 <supermop_Home> (pony would be a button in disc menu for one-click load game into scenario editor) 16:31:29 <andythenorth> SE starts totally flat and empty though? 16:31:33 <supermop_Home> yes 16:31:38 <andythenorth> do I miss something? :) 16:31:41 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 16:32:07 <supermop_Home> you have to click landscape - random map to then roll the map 16:32:39 <nielsm> the number of clicks to reach the map generator is too high imo 16:32:46 <supermop_Home> yes 16:32:56 <andythenorth> supermop_Home no 16:33:09 <andythenorth> ~ newgame [cursor up] [enter] 16:33:46 <supermop_Home> should be option when you click scenario editor whether to start with flat land or generated landscape? 16:33:59 <supermop_Home> like who ever wants the flat land/ 16:34:12 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:35:04 <dP> can anyone guess what graph this is? https://i.imgur.com/LuRM2c2.png 16:35:48 <andythenorth> hedgehog population? 16:36:00 <supermop_Home> lunch time 16:38:00 <glx> [18:29:06] <nielsm> (microsoft should make some more effort to not require visual studio updates to need a system reboot) <-- this requirement seems random, sometimes it doesn't need it 16:38:10 <nielsm> yeah 16:38:29 <nielsm> it seems _some_ updates need to touch some files that apparently are too system-y 16:38:30 <glx> worse thing is "shutdown is not reboot" 16:39:59 <glx> they should do like windows update with "update and shutdown" 16:43:34 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:48:34 <frosch123> what is wrong with people, when they start translating the nfo specs into polish? 16:49:30 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:49:42 <andythenorth> that is very diligent 16:56:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:03:30 *** keoz has joined #openttd 17:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a maintenance nightmare 17:15:30 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 17:18:21 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 17:19:04 <milek7> why wrong? 17:21:50 <frosch123> because the wording of the specs is difficult, things get lost in translation 17:22:15 <frosch123> but well, maybe they get around to translating a nml tutorial 17:22:36 <frosch123> translated tutorials are way more useful than translated references 17:42:36 <glx> nfo specs are already not very clear in english, it will be worse after translation 17:45:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JfANK 17:45:53 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 18:23:31 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:29:49 <nielsm> dP: so what did that graph show? some kind of return on investment? 18:31:04 <dP> nielsm, yeah, total profit if it's immediately reinvested 18:31:22 <dP> nielsm, in 1 year with 100k gbp start 18:31:44 <Wolf01> Nice, new transport fever 2 patch, I wonder how many mods will break 18:32:02 <nielsm> the sawtooth shape looks a bit suspicious to me 18:32:41 <dP> nielsm, it grows with distance until you get less trains at start 18:32:51 <dP> then it drops significantly 18:37:07 <supermop_Home> three blast furnaces should be enough for a 512x512 map? 18:39:17 <dP> hm, in the end, not on start, since it's measured after 1 year with distance increasing some trains won't be arriving in time and thus income drops 18:39:51 <dP> it also ignores topology completely so trains spawn on station and can easily go at the same time 18:42:21 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 18:52:20 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 19:12:01 *** cHawk- has joined #openttd 19:18:06 *** cHawk has quit IRC 19:30:02 <dP> tried to smothen it by adding part of profit for still moving trains at the end of period: https://i.imgur.com/o6tpNAY.png 19:32:48 <nielsm> so basically 250-350 tiles is the optimum distance to move stuff 19:34:17 <dP> nielsm, optimal distance to get money fast with sh125 19:36:15 <dP> added it to a profit tool if anyone wants to play with it: https://citymania.org/tools/profit 19:36:35 <dP> called "200 gbp start" in chart type 19:40:10 <dP> what makes me confident that it works relatively correctly is that sh125 is the best engine for a 1 year time frame xD 19:42:36 <nielsm> not quite right: https://0x0.st/i4OV.png 19:43:44 <andythenorth> 'probably fine' 19:44:11 <nielsm> trying to change it over to use a matrix widget instead of 12 individual button controls 19:45:29 <nielsm> problem is right now the window is getting sized after the "plant trees of random type" button", making it wider than the ideal width of 4 tree buttons, and then the matrix widget draws 5 buttons per row even though they don't all fit 19:45:51 <nielsm> while in the original code with individual buttons, those buttons just got to stretch proportionally 19:46:22 <dP> can't you set max items in row for a matrix? 19:46:25 <nielsm> nope 19:46:33 <nielsm> the matrix is really weird in some ways 19:46:46 <nielsm> it also doesn't have a way to get the currently selected item, only set 19:53:17 <nielsm> also interesting: https://0x0.st/i4Ow.png 19:57:34 <andythenorth> nielsm laying ground for newgrf trees? o_O 19:58:06 <nielsm> that's one of the ideas yes, at least make it slightly less pain if that ever happens 19:58:19 <nielsm> my immediate goal is really just to make some better tree tools for the editor 19:58:29 <andythenorth> I always just put it on 'random' 19:58:32 <andythenorth> silly me 19:58:45 <andythenorth> if we had arbitrary regions.... 19:58:52 <andythenorth> we could have ForestTypes 19:59:56 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:03:25 <nielsm> once again I find that I want the GUI widget sizing to be two-stage in some way 20:03:50 <supermop_Home> i just want trees on shaded side of hills to be shaded 20:04:06 <supermop_Home> so you can actually see your pretty mountains 20:04:09 <nielsm> to support "widgets with fixed (minimum) size that force the containing window's size to a minimum" and also "widgets with dynamic size that need to scale in custom ways depending on the window's size" 20:04:31 <nielsm> I did a hack some time ago to make trees shaded 20:04:43 <nielsm> the code was scary 20:05:24 <nielsm> https://github.com/nielsmh/OpenTTD/tree/tree-slope-brightness 20:09:50 <andythenorth> I'm sure you did screenshots 20:10:36 <andythenorth> meh, mac is idle, but running fans and draining battery 20:10:43 * andythenorth BRB, restarting 20:10:51 <nielsm> yeah I'm very sure I took screenshots of it, but can't find them in the irc logs 20:10:51 <andythenorth> 'this will never happen with ARM' 20:10:57 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:11:15 <nielsm> oh or maybe I should look at 2019 logs instead of 2018 ones 20:11:42 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/zwtg.jpg 20:12:10 <nielsm> giant screenshots: without = https://0x0.st/zwvl.png with = https://0x0.st/zwvG.png 20:14:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:17:41 <supermop_Home> looks beautiful for Appalachia / upstate NY 20:19:33 <nielsm> the results look great, the way I got them is not pretty to look at :) 20:23:24 <supermop_Home> anyone here have any experience with german modular toolboxes? 20:25:36 <nielsm> toolboxes as in boxes to store hand tools for various crafting in? (my answer is no regardless) 20:25:58 <supermop_Home> Festool/systainer vs sortimo/L-Boxx vs Auer 20:26:20 <supermop_Home> nielsm exactly. both for tools and for hardware 20:35:29 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:36:58 <glx> festool is expensive 20:37:14 <glx> that's the only thing I know :) 20:42:04 <supermop_Home> indeed 20:42:35 <supermop_Home> but you can buy the boxes in the system without the festool tools though 20:43:28 <supermop_Home> also hitachi and Makita also make cases compatible with that system. Bosch however uses the Sortimo L-Boxx system 20:51:54 <nielsm> hax! https://0x0.st/i4Vi.png 20:56:56 <supermop_Home> of those festool is the most common / esteemed here, which makes me interested in the other two brands as a contrarian i guess 21:00:36 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 21:00:37 <nielsm> improvements! https://0x0.st/i4VX.png 21:00:53 <nielsm> (never mind that my "regular" installation is 1.10.1 and I haven't got around to update it yet) 21:02:00 <nielsm> also also here: https://0x0.st/i4V8.png 21:07:17 <nielsm> also: time to make sure our mac builds are cross-arch once again 21:07:33 <nielsm> or make separate ones for intel and arm 21:09:10 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:09:34 <supermop_Home> the idea is only as many buttons as there are trees? 21:09:53 <nielsm> that's really just a side effect of the technical changes :) 21:10:06 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:10:09 <nielsm> it wasn't a goal for me 21:17:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh opened pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements https://git.io/JfxU1 21:26:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements https://git.io/JfxU1 21:39:38 <nielsm> and gn 21:46:50 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:46:55 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:47:40 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:57:29 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:57:44 *** Samu has quit IRC 22:08:30 *** keoz has quit IRC 22:12:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:35:28 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 22:49:41 *** Feuersalamander has joined #openttd 22:51:41 *** grossing has quit IRC 22:57:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:59:39 *** arikover has quit IRC 23:07:10 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:07:27 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:08:59 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 23:12:38 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 23:28:29 *** Feuersalamander is now known as grossing