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Log for #openttd on 16th July 2020:
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00:01:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 requested changes for pull request #8260: Codechange: Spell 'Viewport' consistently https://git.io/JJGll
00:03:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8267: Extend viewport renaming PR to include Squirrel API https://git.io/JJGlE
00:03:41  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed pull request #8267: Extend viewport renaming PR to include Squirrel API https://git.io/JJtvi
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02:17:08  <Gadg8eer> Okay, so... The community does not like me. I guess that's fair. However, I noticed something with NRT. In railtypes, if you put something in, for example, the compatible_railtype_list for TEST then it means that trains from other railtypes are compatible with the railtype TEST. Unlike railtypes, when roadtypes and tramtypes are coded, the powered_roadtype_list only causes road vehicles for TEST to be compatible with the listed
02:17:08  <Gadg8eer> roadtypes as well.
02:17:38  <Gadg8eer> This means that the FORD roadtype is not compatible with URaTT.
02:19:52  <Gadg8eer> Only a change to URaTT, which I cannot do because Ufiby is very protective of his code and is abusing a loophole in GPL, can fix this. The best solution is a standardized roadtype scheme, but I'm not going to post a suggestion for a standardized scheme unless I'm not going to attract a virtual lynch mob who either hates me, hates the idea, or both.
02:24:34  <Gadg8eer> orudge: What can I do to encourage everyone to update their GRFs to a standardized roadtype scheme?
02:30:52  <Gadg8eer> Aside from adopting a standardized scheme myself, which I will do but only if a scheme exists that everyone agrees on.
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04:55:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Gadg8eer: in order to design a standardized scheme, you must first find out what people are generally trying to do
04:55:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Gadg8eer: tracksets had been around for years before the standardized scheme for them was designed
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07:39:15  <_dp_> ffs, do we have another closed source "GPL"?
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08:43:56  <TrueBrain> The gift that keeps on giving ...
08:44:17  <TrueBrain> We need a license guide for grf authors
08:49:55  <LordAro> just link them to choosealicense.com ?
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08:58:44  <Timberwolf> Yeah, it feels like a lot of these what the authors actually want is some variant of CC, probably with NC and ND.
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09:01:58  <Timberwolf> But I guess then we're just shifting the problem further upstream to the point someone discovers their GPLed work used in a CC-BY-NC-ND set.
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09:13:17  <_dp_> well, in case of Ufiby I've no idea what he wants since he has both gpl and non-gpl grfs
09:13:35  <_dp_> I've seen some comment somewhere that he used gpled sprites
09:17:00  <_dp_> Have an alternative suggestion: why not just download required grfs seamlessly in game if license is irrelevant anyway? :p
09:24:23  <Eddi|zuHause> that quickly resolves into a "have no grfs downloadable"
09:31:16  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, not on bananas you mean? that doesn't happen very often, at least for servers
09:32:04  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean if bananas just starts ignoring licenses
09:32:18  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, bananas is already ignoring them :P
09:32:21  <Eddi|zuHause> then there quickly won't be much of bananas left
10:04:47  <_dp_> rofl, I just noticed there is already no way to see grf licenses when connecting to the server xD
10:05:11  <_dp_> coz you need to download it first but when you do it goes back to the lobby xD
10:19:07  <_dp_> I'm starting to understand why new players can't join newgrf servers
10:19:37  <_dp_> it involves inconspicuous button that open something that looks like a space shuttle control panel
10:19:56  <_dp_> when in reality all they need are 2 options - download and cancel
10:22:18  <_dp_> and, worst of all, download resets the lobby
10:25:28  <Timberwolf> I find this debugging people's savegames when they have Villages Is Villages problems. The split is about 30% fixing my own dumbass coding mistake, 70% tracking down all the grfs I need to load the damn save in the first place.
10:28:57  <_dp_> yeah, when I see people reporting saves with arcane grfs I almost want to send them fixing those bugs themselves :p
10:29:20  <_dp_> gladly I run servers and don't have deal with that nonsense very often
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11:19:23  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic updated pull request #8274: Feature: option to auto remove signals when in the way during rail co… https://git.io/JJsQJ
11:22:20  <argoneus> is there a dev channel
11:22:26  <argoneus> i could've sworn there was one
11:25:06  <LordAro> there is, but no one's used it in ages
11:25:13  <LordAro> this channel hasn't been busy enough to warrant it
11:30:41  <argoneus> oh
11:30:59  <argoneus> i never really see any dev discussion here
11:31:02  <argoneus> so i was confused
11:31:58  <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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11:53:52  <planetmaker> argoneus, there sure is dev discussions here. And on the exact details, discussion meanwhile usually is in the corresponding github issues :)
11:55:09  <argoneus> o-oh
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13:46:08  <TrueBrain> _dp_: yeah, the license is not there for the end-user, but for who-ever wants to modify them or redistribute them
13:46:15  <TrueBrain> (which is pretty common for mods)
13:46:48  <TrueBrain> it is basically only important if you start to open the tar :)
13:47:05  <_dp_> TrueBrain, what about screenshots?
13:47:21  <TrueBrain> a very good point; pretty sure nobody ever considered that :D
13:47:31  <_dp_> xD
13:47:32  <TrueBrain> well, I guess the same rules apply as with any screenshot
13:48:02  <TrueBrain> the same rules you have when you take a screenshot of a game etc
13:48:15  <TrueBrain> the exceptions in all copyright laws :D
13:48:44  <TrueBrain> so you cannot use them to recreate a GRF :P
13:48:57  <TrueBrain> well, recreate is always fine
13:49:04  <TrueBrain> what-ever .. I will stop digging this hole now
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13:55:25  <supermop_Home> TrueBrain I believe screenshots are 'fair use', you are using them to essentially editorialize on the game, same as if you were writing a review in a magazine, even if it is just to share some weird thing you did on imgur
13:55:50  <TrueBrain> yup; but it has to be fair use
13:55:55  <TrueBrain> which sometimes is a bit of a debate
13:55:59  <TrueBrain> when does fair use start and end :)
13:56:22  <supermop_Home> using photoshop to crop out house sprites from the screen shot and put them in a commercial game you are making is obviously not
13:56:59  <TrueBrain> :D
13:57:49  <supermop_Home> the tricky part would be if you were to claim that whatever non compliant grf you made with someone else's sprites was a piece of artistic work, like a collage
14:00:03  <supermop_Home> i would say even that would be allowable in most jurisdictions if it wasn't distributed... if it was just running on some air gapped computer in a gallery.....
14:00:07  <_dp_> crazy idea of the day: make grf with a license that explicitly forbids to use it in the game
14:00:50  <TrueBrain> _dp_: would make a very interesting case if you upload that to BaNaNaS, as you willingly upload content you know cannot be used in the purpose of the distribution platform
14:01:00  <TrueBrain> it is like uploading a video on youtube with a license that disallows watching
14:02:14  <supermop_Home> but saying that thousands of people using a cracked version of Autocad you distributed to do commercial work is your "Performance Art" probably will not get you very far in court...
14:03:44  <_dp_> TrueBrain, well bananas isn't the game...
14:03:57  <TrueBrain> no, but the only purpose of BaNaNaS is to supply ingame content
14:04:14  <_dp_> oh, even better idea: copyleft-alike license that allows modification but not to use any derivatives in the game
14:04:17  <TrueBrain> so you could argue that you purposefully created an impossible situation ..
14:04:24  <supermop_Home> "Your Honor, those were not fake Prada bags i was selling on the sidewalk... they were sculptures of Prada bags that were part of an interactive art installation..."
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14:27:59  <CornsMcGowan[m]> did matrix's font change?
14:28:21  <TrueBrain> seems so
14:28:24  <TrueBrain> the UI changed for sure
14:28:24  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh riot.im changed to Element
14:28:33  <TrueBrain> lot more difficult to spot when there are notifications in channels now
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14:40:31  <CornsMcGowan[m]> ah
14:40:47  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hmm is there a console commmand to download newgrfs required for a particular save/scenario?
14:41:50  <CornsMcGowan[m]> aside from
14:41:56  <CornsMcGowan[m]> content select all; content downoad
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18:25:10  <_dp_> hm... is there any grf that has flower meadows?
18:26:03  <nielsm> any of the dutch set ones? :)
18:30:18  <_dp_> doesn't seem so... also I'd prefer something more alpine :p
18:31:28  <frosch123> ice flowers?
18:35:14  <_dp_> frosch123, alpine, not arctic :p
18:39:57  <supermop_Home> farms should be allowed above snowline
18:40:37  <supermop_Home> the game always starts in January, when the snow covers all of the lower valleys, so no farms can be placed
18:41:28  <frosch123> i think switching hemisphere does not help
18:41:49  <frosch123> iirc it considered the lowest snow height over the whole year
18:42:05  <supermop_Home> really it should consider the highest
18:42:28  <_dp_> lol, I literally had farm above snow line on second monitor when I read that xD
18:42:34  <supermop_Home> nearly all of the farmland here is under at least some snow in the winter
18:43:46  <frosch123> oh, you are lucky, it does check highest snowline
18:43:49  <frosch123> both forest and farm
18:44:21  <frosch123> so hard restriction for forest, relaxed for farms
18:45:47  <frosch123> supermop_Home: so, your january observation is a myth
18:45:57  <supermop_Home> hmm
18:46:11  <frosch123> unless newgrf does different than default farms
18:47:12  <frosch123> hmm, maybe newgrf don't have that info
18:48:07  <frosch123> so switching hemisphere probably works for newgrf
18:50:31  <frosch123> ogfx+landscape can do that
18:51:11  <supermop_Home> hmm
18:51:27  <supermop_Home> still would be nice to change the start month
18:51:35  <supermop_Home> not realy sure why though
19:08:17  <glx> oh nigthly failed again (this time it's not my fault)
19:14:59  <b_jonas> what I'd like to change about the map generation is to not put so many useless transmitters and lighthouses on the map. sometimes lots of transmitters close together. currently I'm magic bulldozering them.
19:15:25  <b_jonas> you can avoid the transmitters if you don't generate mountains, but I'd like mountains and oceans on the map
19:16:03  <_dp_> what I'd like too change about map generation is everything :p
19:16:21  <b_jonas> yes, that too
19:16:38  <b_jonas> the mountains, the industries, the towns,
19:16:54  <b_jonas> but the transmitters are the worst
19:17:52  <b_jonas> and in game, I'd like to be able to pay industries to close. at least when they're not serviced at all, and with a delay like you have to pay for two years so you can't use it against others so easily in multiplayer
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20:16:01  <glx> TrueBrain: re-run failed tasks in release pipelines is basically unusable because https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/4079c47b6cd5d210bdc31eff2040fb5aeb0f10de/azure-pipelines/templates/release.yml#L178-L183 , is it really needed with https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/4079c47b6cd5d210bdc31eff2040fb5aeb0f10de/azure-pipelines/templates/release.yml#L175-L176 ?
20:17:17  <TrueBrain> glx: the comment speaks for itself :) Otherwise, experiment on your fork if it still holds true :)
20:30:09  <glx> ok based on the docs it seems the condition can be improved
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20:50:43  <openttdguest> TrueBrain: you there?
20:50:55  <TrueBrain> depends on your definition of "there" :)
20:50:56  <TrueBrain> wassup?
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20:54:42  <openttdguest> TrueBrain: I wrote some code to get the download url and such for network content (https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/qjB37mzBQy/). Why is the byte order for only three of the content types little endian and the rest big endian?
20:55:17  <TrueBrain> because reasons, basically :)
20:55:28  <TrueBrain> history tends to do weird stuff with consistency
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20:58:38  <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...glx22:manifest <-- I think this should work (if I understand the doc in https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/devops/pipelines/process/expressions?view=azure-devops#dependencies)
21:00:21  <TrueBrain> I have no reason not to believe you :P
21:00:28  <TrueBrain> we should port this to GitHub Actions tbfh
21:01:17  <glx> but testing azure stuff is not easy for me
21:01:32  <TrueBrain> hence the porting to GitHub Actions :D
21:03:25  <glx> yeah I should revive my branch
21:05:15  <TrueBrain> testing in the DevOps is difficult; best you can do is clone the current job, one way or the other, and assign it to another GitHub fork
21:05:20  <TrueBrain> I did that in the beginning
21:05:28  <TrueBrain> I believe I removed that project long ago
21:05:47  <openttdguest> TrueBrain: I just need to properly get the the download URL. Is that issue on bananas-api the same as my goal?
21:06:07  <TrueBrain> openttdguest: as explained to you yes time, yes
21:06:11  <TrueBrain> well
21:06:13  <TrueBrain> most likely
21:06:16  <TrueBrain> your goal is still vague enough :D
21:06:40  <TrueBrain> openttdguest: https://github.com/OpenTTD/bananas-server/blob/master/bananas_server/openttd/receive.py#L106 for your earlier question
21:08:53  <openttdguest> TrueBrain: It would be convenient for me if the website had the download link. I could write the function if you want and paste it.
21:09:24  <TrueBrain> we accept pullrequests on this repositories; just mind the coding style etc :)
21:09:53  <openttdguest> TrueBrain: Is there a doc for coding style?
21:10:03  <TrueBrain> for python it is "black"
21:10:12  <openttdguest> TrueBrain: Okay good
21:10:12  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/psf/black
21:12:37  * _dp_ added to bookmarks
21:12:50  <Xaroth> Black is a good standard
21:16:30  <_dp_> unfortunately, not that useful when you're neck-deep into the c++ swamp :/
21:18:07  <TrueBrain> nothing is useful when you reached that point :D
21:25:05  * _dp_ translating javascipt code into c++ to replicate python script
21:26:35  <glx> oh there is https://github.com/marketplace/actions/run-vcpkg
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23:43:40  <Gadg8eer> Is anyone online?

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