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Log for #openttd on 11th August 2020:
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07:02:38  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bl501 opened issue #8293: Crashes upon opening - mac Sierra https://git.io/JJDhA
07:11:41  <andythenorth> escalation of vehicle running costs is hard :P
07:36:51  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8293: Crashes upon opening - mac Sierra https://git.io/JJDhA
07:36:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8293: Crashes upon opening - mac Sierra https://git.io/JJDhA
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09:23:36  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i'm just thankful the full game compiles quicker now lmao
09:25:09  <CornsMcGowan[m]> -compared to like 2 years ago when modifying one file needed a 30 second relinking thingy
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09:30:51  <LordAro> CornsMcGowan[m]: i wouldn't have thought anything done recently would've changed that significantly
09:31:23  <LordAro> depends which file you're editing, as ever - touching a 'core' header file will inevitably mean recompiling everything
09:33:01  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hm i wouldn't imagine changing stuff like rail_gui.cpp would need so much time
09:33:10  <CornsMcGowan[m]> but yeah its much quicker now, whatever changed
09:33:34  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hm OnPlaceObjectAbort() doesn't execute when the user hits delete...
09:34:45  <CornsMcGowan[m]> doesn't happen when they click X either
09:35:22  <CornsMcGowan[m]> trying to find a function that reliably executes when the tool is closed
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09:36:49  <CornsMcGowan[m]> eg when they deselect the tool, when they choose a different tool (onplaceobjectabort covers these cases), and when the toolbar itself is closed entirely
09:36:58  <Eddi|zuHause> are you sure you're not compiling a debug build? those probably compile faster (but run slower)
09:37:26  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hm could be
09:37:49  <CornsMcGowan[m]> but yeah i do remember when working on 1.8 and 1.7, i'd change one line in rail_gui.cpp and it would take some time to recomp
09:38:13  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i guess i could checkout the old tags and have a go again
10:46:28  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh so the window closing just uses `delete`
10:47:28  <CornsMcGowan[m]> so i can modify the destructor of the rail toolbar to catch that event
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12:20:36  <CornsMcGowan[m]> dp when you were implementing the path search rail builder, did you use the tile edges as the graph vertices?
12:20:48  <CornsMcGowan[m]> _dp_
12:20:54  <CornsMcGowan[m]> idk if i pinged correctly
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13:21:21  <FLHerne> Second one looks right
13:34:50  <TrueBrain> and here I was, wondering why my Rust application was so much slower than I expected .. well, it helps to create a release build instead of a debug :P Damn, that is a lot faster :D
13:36:05  <TrueBrain> 22.1 vs 1.7 seconds :D
13:36:06  <TrueBrain> lol
13:36:35  <LordAro> yeah, rust debug vs release performance is impressive
13:36:49  <LordAro> i've never been sure whether debug is excessively slow, or release is just that fast
13:37:30  <TrueBrain> I am meeting my deadlines with ~1 usec ..
13:37:34  <TrueBrain> that is .. a lot better than I expected
13:37:44  <TrueBrain> s/with/within/
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13:39:41  <TrueBrain> it sometimes, depending on other activities in this still single-thread application, can be 1ms overdue .. rest of the time it is within 1 us .. holy crap :P
13:39:51  <TrueBrain> and this is Rust calling Python calling Rust
13:55:18  <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/26b0d6611aaca28d0e50c15df158a1a0 <- you got to love programming :P
13:59:45  <LordAro> lovely
14:00:25  <LordAro> i'd ask why, but i'm not sure i want to know
14:00:37  <TrueBrain> well, yes, as the answer is ofc: why not? :)
14:00:49  <TrueBrain> but this is a static/dynamic SNES decompiler, or at least, the beginnings :)
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14:01:24  <TrueBrain> it builds an AST; I now need Visitors to make the code easier to read :P
14:02:38  <andythenorth> yo
14:06:39  <TrueBrain> yo andy
14:06:49  <TrueBrain> where is my airco? You happen to know?
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14:21:35  <_dp_> CornsMcGowan[m], yeah, I used edges
14:21:39  <_dp_> well, kinda :p
14:23:37  <_dp_> CornsMcGowan[m], https://github.com/citymania-org/cmclient/blob/smart-polyrail/src/citymania/polyrail.cpp#L156
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14:52:10  <andythenorth> TrueBrain where did you leave it? o_O
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16:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause> where did all my food go? i need to go shopping, i fear
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16:36:57  <andythenorth> delivery?
16:37:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not even sure there's anything that delivers out here
16:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never actually tried
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16:39:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] rubyFeedback opened issue #8294: [Small compile issue] wrong name for bin/ https://git.io/JJyoU
16:44:39  <Wolf01> Hmmm still no update on microsoft store
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16:50:02  <TrueBrain> did anyone ask orudge for that? :)
16:52:16  <LordAro> hmm, 1.10.3 uses configure still
16:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, we're not going to make that kind of changes to release builds :p
16:53:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8294: [Small compile issue] wrong name for bin/ https://git.io/JJyoU
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16:56:23  <andythenorth> definitely happier now
16:56:31  <LordAro> but think of the issues!
16:56:54  <andythenorth> nah, if there were more of us who were completionist I would
16:57:00  <andythenorth> but it's not a fun game to play solo
16:57:11  <andythenorth> trying to hold back the sea is no fun alone
16:57:33  * andythenorth is curious
16:57:55  <andythenorth> at the seaside, which of you build the biggest possible fort / dam / sandcastle against the incoming tide?
16:57:58  * andythenorth usually does that
16:59:02  <LordAro> of course
16:59:29  <LordAro> been many years since i was at a suitably sandy beach (with digging implements) though
16:59:41  <supermop_Home_> andythenorth i prefer to find a stream running into the ocean and build dams and headraces
16:59:49  <LordAro> i also enjoy daming streams
16:59:52  <andythenorth> same
17:00:01  <andythenorth> futile game, losing in the long term
17:00:06  <andythenorth> totally addictive
17:00:12  <Eddi|zuHause> on the seas i usually am, there's not much going on with tides
17:00:17  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: just like life, I guess :P
17:00:19  <supermop_Home_> preferably one with several channels so my brother and i can compete
17:00:48  <supermop_Home_> though now that he is a hydrological civil engineer i imagine it would no longer be fair
17:02:19  <TrueBrain> depends on if he earned that degree or not :P
17:04:37  <supermop_Home_> well my dad, also a civil engineer never built particular ambitious dams when all three of us were at it
17:05:04  <supermop_Home_> you really need the hubris of an architect to make a good beach dam
17:05:25  * andythenorth looking for pictures
17:07:23  <andythenorth> can't find any
17:07:41  <andythenorth> the ideal is to have the most upstream dam on a stream lots of people are damming
17:08:06  <supermop_Home_> i would love to have one of those big sand tables they have in hydrology labs
17:08:13  <andythenorth> this (1) tends to be the most technically challenging build, as it will be wider
17:08:24  <andythenorth> (2) blocks everyone else's water supply
17:08:40  <andythenorth> (3) people come up and ask you to break your dam so they can have water
17:08:47  <supermop_Home_> (3) open the spillway to destroy everyone elses
17:08:51  <andythenorth> (4) after enough requests and enough water, you let everyone break the dam
17:08:57  <andythenorth> which they really really want to do
17:09:05  <andythenorth> (5) all their dams collapse almost instantly
17:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you play wildly different games than me :p
17:09:30  <andythenorth> creates a public spectacle and voluntary trolling
17:09:44  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause this is probably _not_ surprising? o_O
17:09:56  <supermop_Home_> honestly so much of what annoys be about the terrain generator is hydrology based...
17:10:06  <andythenorth> ha
17:10:17  <supermop_Home_> maybe it's time for Open Dam Tycoon
17:10:19  <andythenorth> didn't servers used to have flooding?
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17:11:00  <Eddi|zuHause> all my attempts at rivers so far failed on the restrictions that they can't be on half-slope tiles
17:11:20  <andythenorth> goes it throw out restriction? o_O
17:11:28  <andythenorth> you so nearly won with breadth-first Eddi|zuHause
17:11:32  <andythenorth> the artefacts were good
17:11:38  <andythenorth> also your town grid patch
17:12:00  <supermop_Home_> yes
17:12:06  <andythenorth> on the other hand....I am kind of wary of social pressure in open source right now
17:12:13  <supermop_Home_> liked the idea of that town thing
17:12:20  <andythenorth> having had a sense of humour failure about the whole open source project lifecycle
17:12:35  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause forget I ever mentioned your patches :)
17:12:54  <Eddi|zuHause> you forgot the synchronized level crossings
17:13:19  <supermop_Home_> hell yeah
17:13:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and i think i have a half-done version of diagonal level crossings around somewhere
17:13:32  <supermop_Home_> with teleporting stuck trucks across?
17:13:59  <supermop_Home_> i thought the synchronous crossings was the prelim. work for diagonal
17:14:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:14:11  <supermop_Home_> man that was like 10 years ago at least?
17:14:17  <andythenorth> I have been yak-shaving down cost optimisations in Horse which almost no-one will notice
17:14:24  <andythenorth> and which I will declare wrong in 6 months
17:14:43  <andythenorth> but it is infinitely more fun than doing the nml docs rewrites I am *supposed* to be doing
17:14:44  <Eddi|zuHause> there's a crazy old version of diagonal crossings without the synchronization, which caused all kinds of problems
17:15:06  <andythenorth> infinitely
17:15:25  <Eddi|zuHause> so i started out with that problem, then updated the rest of the patch
17:15:40  <Eddi|zuHause> but i never got done porting over the graphics part
17:16:03  <Eddi|zuHause> it seemed to work fine mechanic wise
17:16:37  <supermop_Home_> andy i am supposed to be rendering lots of stupid pieces of furniture, but instead i'm looking at houses for sale in Honolulu that i'll never be able to afford
17:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause> and i'll never reach a shop before it closes at this speed...
17:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i should learn to do this in the morning
17:19:00  <andythenorth> I learned to live somewhere that delivers :|
17:19:12  <andythenorth> I would hate the logistics of having to plan to go out
17:21:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it would be healthy for me to have yet more excuses to not go out
18:03:10  <andythenorth> so should I adjust running costs to be more...realistic? o_O
18:03:21  <b_jonas> no! never
18:06:13  * andythenorth thinks track access charges should be simulated
18:06:15  <andythenorth> but how!
18:06:33  <andythenorth> sometimes longer trains cost more, because they take up 2 paths, not 1
18:06:44  <andythenorth> and sometimes shorter trains cost more, because they 'waste' a path
18:07:01  <andythenorth> but shorter trains accelerate faster, and take less loop space
18:07:06  <andythenorth> but they carry less payload!
18:07:14  <andythenorth> oh wait, we own all the tracks :P
18:07:16  <andythenorth> as you were
18:08:56  <andythenorth> FLHerne supermop_Home_ major tactical Horse question: ┬┐Garratt? y|n
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19:11:01  <TrueBrain> that moment you can decompile and run the whole intro of Zelda :D (well, without any gfx; only the CPU instructions :P)
19:11:05  <TrueBrain> \o/ :D
19:13:40  <glx> nice, means you can also play the game virtually
19:13:48  <TrueBrain> :D
19:13:55  <TrueBrain> in my mind, I sure can! :P
19:13:59  <glx> unless inputs are not yet supported
19:14:19  <TrueBrain> nothing is supported other than running opcodes :P
19:14:38  <TrueBrain> well, and 1 memory register, as otherwise the APU initialization code just halts :P
19:14:40  <glx> so intro then infinite loop in the menu
19:16:18  <TrueBrain> well, better: infinite loop of the intro :)
19:19:19  <andythenorth> metagames :)
19:25:34  <TrueBrain> Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC)                = 13,880 <- lines of generated code :P
19:25:45  <TrueBrain> this is fun :) Mostly because it works :P
19:26:02  <TrueBrain> a good: fuck-it-is-too-hot-to-think chore :)
19:26:31  <TrueBrain> I am still amazed how fast Rust is
19:26:45  <TrueBrain> despite calling Python constantly :)
19:27:46  <_dp_> zero-cost abstractions ftw xD
19:31:43  <TrueBrain> I am still surprised I meet most of my deadlines within a few usec .. for something that is calling 60 times a second, going through Python back to Rust .. I really did not expect that
19:31:48  <TrueBrain> I was fully prepared to slow down emulation
19:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause> at least if you're not constantly restarting python, that's not THAT surprising :)
19:38:52  * andythenorth forsees a Rust -Python hybrid NML :P
19:39:06  <andythenorth> oof I could franken-rust my newgrf compiles? o_O
19:39:28  <Eddi|zuHause> because you don't have enough layers of indirection yet?
19:39:43  <andythenorth> I could template the python :P
19:39:47  <andythenorth> I could template the Rust!
19:39:49  <andythenorth> with Python
19:40:19  <Eddi|zuHause> if you say "blockchain" and "kubernetes" then i have bingo
19:41:41  <andythenorth> "cloud" ?
19:41:59  <andythenorth> hmm Train Bingo
19:42:03  <andythenorth> "new, from Iron Horse"
19:42:28  <andythenorth> 9x9 grid, you get 10 goes, if your trains match the grid, you win!
19:43:05  <andythenorth> oh, Train Tetris also
19:43:10  <andythenorth> but I might get sued for that
19:43:46  <Eddi|zuHause> flappy train
19:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> train crush
19:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause> world of trains
19:44:09  <andythenorth> crossy train
19:44:23  <andythenorth> Train Tycoon!
19:44:28  <andythenorth> Train Tycoon Deluxe!
19:44:37  <Eddi|zuHause> train simulat... oh wait :p
19:44:41  <andythenorth> someone should make a game with all these sprites I've drawn
19:45:12  <andythenorth> 496 so far https://grf.farm/iron-horse/dev/html/trains.html
19:45:13  <LordAro> TrueBrain: nice :)
19:45:46  <andythenorth> how about a game where you have to build a train network?
19:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you know these mornings where you declare war, and blow all your advantages in the first moments?
19:46:16  <andythenorth> sounds like my every day?
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21:22:49  <supermop_Home_> slot machine?
21:25:37  <andythenorth> Pacer Horse? oO
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21:28:55  <supermop_Home_> hmm can i use this guanciale for lardons
21:31:18  <supermop_Home_> well no protests from the Italian so i will go ahead
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21:57:02  <Wolf01> supermop_Home_: always use guanciale
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