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01:01:51 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:01:58 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 02:15:26 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:18:52 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:41:55 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:27:17 *** glx has quit IRC 03:49:11 <Gustavo6046> I want my buses to just roam around (no specific orders) and load/unload at the stations they will come across. 03:49:13 <Gustavo6046> How do? 04:31:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 04:53:23 *** Speeder has quit IRC 05:16:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 05:55:39 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:00:42 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:01:49 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:10:36 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:22:48 <andythenorth> seems Train Whack already existed https://www.classicmagazines.co.uk//images/5542large.jpg 07:23:00 * andythenorth has ordered a copy 07:23:06 <andythenorth> looks like it's only boring mode 07:28:32 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:37:20 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 10:04:39 <_dp_> wtf was I debugging yesterday till 5am, can't even repro now xD 10:05:12 <_dp_> well, my save comparator can now parse VEHS so that's a plus I guess :/ 10:15:37 <b_jonas> _dp_: yeah, that's most of my output at work too, better debugging tools, not fixes for the problems that they found 10:20:06 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 10:21:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 10:23:11 * andythenorth had ideas 10:23:15 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 10:23:21 <andythenorth> I can use the flip status of a vehicle as configuration 10:23:24 <andythenorth> it's bits 10:23:35 <andythenorth> so 0000 would be livery 1 10:23:56 <b_jonas> can you also use the coupled wagons as configuration? 10:23:57 <andythenorth> 1000 would be livery 2 (reversed bits, user expects to start at front of train) 10:24:06 <andythenorth> 0100 would be livery 2 10:24:09 <andythenorth> etc 10:24:13 <nielsm> you mean flip bit of first, second, third etc. vehicle in the train as bits to select livery of entire train? 10:24:18 <andythenorth> yes 10:24:24 <andythenorth> totally sane, right? 10:24:36 <andythenorth> how many values can I encode in 4 bits? 10:24:41 <nielsm> 16 10:24:50 <andythenorth> that's enough 10:24:55 <andythenorth> I only want to draw 2 in most cases :P 10:25:21 * andythenorth wonders about a better way :P 10:26:17 <nielsm> steamers with tender built as separate wagon and tender chosen determines graphics and performance in some way too, and works as second bit to select livery by flip 10:26:32 <andythenorth> I'm sure V already has all this in NUTS 10:28:33 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 10:28:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 10:28:46 * _dp_ actually wanted a flipped Doombringer yesterday 10:28:53 <_dp_> doesn't flip :( 10:29:23 <andythenorth> flipped articulated vehicles should be a thing :) 10:30:36 <andythenorth> ho 10:30:51 * andythenorth proposes a newgrf flag that redefines ctrl-click behaviour 10:30:58 <andythenorth> if 0, flip is flip 10:31:27 <andythenorth> if 1 ctrl-click sets a bit on vehicle (lead vehicle of articulated consist), and newgrf can choose what to do 10:32:12 <_dp_> https://i.imgur.com/xjeFcZ0.png 10:32:40 <andythenorth> you wanted one for the back also? 10:33:04 <_dp_> yep 10:33:21 <andythenorth> it's not like newgrf couldn't do it 10:33:27 <andythenorth> I already have to manually handle flip anyway 10:33:39 <andythenorth> because openttd does it wrong 10:33:51 <_dp_> mostly because I just wanted two engines without wagons and before I realized it turns last wagon into a head visually 10:34:24 <andythenorth> maybe I should make a JGR feature request :) 10:35:24 *** tokai has quit IRC 11:00:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the main thing that's blocking flipping articulated vehicles is that in order to flip the whole vehicle, the parts need to change order, and that does all kind of weird stuff to functions that traverse the vehicles in the chain 11:01:40 <Eddi|zuHause> keep in mind that some people want flip to actually do what it says 11:02:10 <andythenorth> yes 11:02:59 <andythenorth> apart from "it's work" and "it fragments the existing grf base" what stops it being delegated to newgrf 11:03:12 <andythenorth> given that newgrfs can't support flip without handling it themselves anyway 11:03:49 <andythenorth> I can forsee some bad things happening if var 0x61 is being used extensively 11:04:15 <Eddi|zuHause> you need different parts of the code to traverse the vehicle in different orders 11:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> because vehicles are now both the 3rd part in the articulated chain, and the 1st part in the vehicle chain 11:06:03 <andythenorth> yes 11:06:27 <andythenorth> I can see the problem 11:06:54 <andythenorth> container vehicles :P 11:07:21 <andythenorth> the IDs and properties of units inside an articulated consist should not be the concern of neighbouring vehicles 11:07:32 <andythenorth> but that's not going to change :) 11:08:22 <andythenorth> anyway, I have made a totally rational way to control liveries 11:08:37 <andythenorth> Horse has random 1cc/2cc livery for cargo wagons 11:08:45 <andythenorth> which can be reversed by flipping the vehicle 11:08:53 <andythenorth> but there have been a few feature requests to disable that 11:09:09 <andythenorth> which I ignored because it could be avoided using the company colour settings for wagons 11:09:19 <andythenorth> (set 1cc and 2cc same for wagons only) 11:09:24 <andythenorth> but that doesn't work with groups 11:09:31 <andythenorth> so 11:09:45 <andythenorth> flipping the second vehicle in same-id chain toggles random on or off 11:10:03 <andythenorth> if random is off, flipping the first vehicle determines 1cc or 2cc for the whole id chain 11:10:28 <andythenorth> https://media1.tenor.com/images/0d1329f5ff7d31712e3d12ce160df6ec/tenor.gif?itemid=5263684 11:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like complete nonsense :) 11:11:02 <andythenorth> trying to control train appearance in a spec that is borderline hostile to it 11:11:06 <andythenorth> is a good meta-game 11:11:40 <andythenorth> if starting a model train simulator from scratch, blank paper, 'control appearance' would probably be near top of spec 11:11:48 <andythenorth> but we are where we are 11:12:47 <andythenorth> I could just add 1CC and 2CC variants to the purchase menu and be done with it? 11:13:00 <andythenorth> it wouldn't bloat grf much, it's a sprite recolour, so just a few extra lines and an ID 11:13:31 <andythenorth> "Open Wagon (Small) 1CC", "Open Wagon (Small) 2CC", "Open Wagon (Small) Random" 11:13:35 <andythenorth> etc 11:20:16 *** Lejving has quit IRC 11:23:06 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 11:41:38 <andythenorth> hmm 11:41:59 <andythenorth> is there a var somewhere for 'company colour is being applied to this vehicle by a group'? 11:42:19 <andythenorth> vehicles without livery from group should continue to randomise 1cc/2cc 11:42:25 <andythenorth> vehicles in groups should not 11:42:42 <andythenorth> maybe I should allow/prevent randomisation based on tasteful colour combos :P 11:46:33 <andythenorth> ha ha genius idea 11:46:36 <andythenorth> 2 kinds of caboose 11:46:51 <andythenorth> attaching a random-colours caboose in the consist causes random colour swap 11:46:56 <andythenorth> otherwise all the same 12:10:55 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 12:24:31 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 12:33:08 <b_jonas> why would you want random colors in first place? do you want more rainbow slugs? 12:33:35 <b_jonas> I prefer my trains to just have group colors 12:33:54 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:39:49 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:58:18 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:30:43 <andythenorth> you don't want wagons to sometimes have an alternative colour? 13:32:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd prospect the vast majority does not want random 13:32:29 <nielsm> depends on the type of wagon, in general I think it makes more sense that wagons purchased/built at the same time should look the same 13:32:35 <andythenorth> non-random is definitely tidier 13:32:44 <nielsm> but then OTTD doesn't have wagons moving between trains 13:32:55 <andythenorth> it's quite a nuanced situation 13:33:01 <nielsm> since that's really how mixed-looking trains happen irl 13:33:15 <andythenorth> without groups in use, I set wagon colours to e.g. blue, dark blue, or pink, red 13:33:22 <andythenorth> and then the randomisation is small 13:33:40 <andythenorth> but with groups I usually have e.g. red-white, mauve-orange etc 13:33:45 <andythenorth> and the wagons look horrible 13:35:04 <frosch123> i love random 13:35:11 <frosch123> more variety for less work 13:35:23 <nielsm> actually one thing you can do is have old cargo wagons at the end (and possibly regular intervals in long trains) have brakeman huts 13:35:29 <nielsm> https://www.jernbanen.dk/dsb_gvognfotos.php?Aar=1893&litra=PB&typenr=2 13:35:46 <andythenorth> frosch123 hurrah, a vote for random :) 13:36:12 <andythenorth> I could randomise to nearby company colour, instead of 1cc / 2cc 13:36:17 <andythenorth> might look less bad 13:37:11 <nielsm> containers can definitely be different each time they are loaded though 13:37:27 <andythenorth> yeah that's done already in Horse 13:38:13 <andythenorth> the number of side-channels I'm using to try and let player influence livery :P 13:38:26 <andythenorth> because I hate the spec implementation of liveries 13:41:35 <nielsm> how about instead of grouping in the purchase window there is a before-purchase callback that enumerates a list of variants available for purchase, and variants are shown in a separate list after choosing the wagpm 13:42:04 <nielsm> and each variant has a byte id that just becomes another variable 13:42:49 <andythenorth> does that differ much from current implementation? 13:42:51 <andythenorth> :) 13:43:24 <nielsm> in UI it does, perhaps? 13:43:24 <andythenorth> the UI might be less clunky :) 13:44:34 <andythenorth> can I repaint a vehicle after it is purchased? 13:45:04 <nielsm> actually have three cbs, one for enumerating the available variant ids, one for querying variant names by id, and one for selecting actual variant id from selected variant id (and other variables) at purchase time 13:46:02 <nielsm> aaaaaa big bird poop in my hair 13:46:13 <nielsm> and running down the back of my head 13:46:34 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 13:48:23 <andythenorth> oof 14:01:27 <andythenorth> lateral approach 14:01:38 <andythenorth> rule-based company colour 14:02:22 <andythenorth> choose a colour, or open a rules UI 14:02:47 <andythenorth> 'if wagon use colour x | random choice from [options] 14:02:53 <andythenorth> if engine... etc 14:03:44 <andythenorth> this would (1) work with groups as well as non-groups 14:04:02 <andythenorth> (2) we could replace the current colours UI, which has some of the weirdest design I've ever seen for making choices 14:04:31 <b_jonas> andythenorth: yes, I want alternative colors, that's when I assigne different colors to different train groups 14:04:58 <b_jonas> I woulnd't like random, because that would make it harder to distinguish different train groups by different colors 14:05:30 <b_jonas> nielsm has a point that in reality trains are often multicolored, but this isn't reality, I want to see my trains 14:05:41 <b_jonas> and I can have different trains running on the same line, or just close to each other 14:06:35 <nielsm> something like "prototype looks different from main production run" can also be cool 14:07:20 <nielsm> if you can get the actual introduction date and compare to the purchase date 14:07:33 <b_jonas> currently I color every train that carries only engineering supplies or farming supplies or chemicals or clay to blue. that's not perfect, because then I often redistribute the engineering supplies by adding one or two flat wagon to the back of the mining trains, and those wagons aren't blue, but since the iron/scrap/coal goes to hoppers and the eng supplies goes to flat wagons with cars on them, it's 14:07:39 <b_jonas> still obvious enough which trains have eng supply wagons 14:08:03 <b_jonas> but more importantly, I have five different mines on the north mining line, and distinguish the trains serving them with four different colors 14:08:15 <b_jonas> the south train line is similar, though that currently only has two mines 14:08:21 <Timberwolf> nielsm: I think `built_during_preview` does that? 14:08:32 <b_jonas> this will get even more important when I finally extend the north train line, there are a lot of currently unused mines there 14:09:03 <Timberwolf> I've been tempted to have an alternative DP1 sprite for Deltics built during the preview window, although I'm also tempted not to end up in combinatorial switch hell. 14:09:11 <nielsm> Timberwolf that sounds like it yes 14:09:21 <b_jonas> so I color the scrapyard trains yellow, coal to gray or brown, and the mining trains chosen from red, pink, orange, and whatever the other pink color is 14:09:34 <b_jonas> but these aren't fixed, I just use whatever works for my network 14:09:53 <b_jonas> my previous network had mostly oil and goods trains, so I had colors for different oil destinations 14:11:24 <b_jonas> I'm not saying that this helps the invisible workers that switch the track swithes for the trains, it helps me 14:11:31 <b_jonas> the real trains might be different color, this is for my interface 14:13:02 <b_jonas> although the maglev tracks are probably computer-controlled, there are no invisible workers pulling switches between two 4000 km/h vacuum trains 14:13:46 <b_jonas> the steam trains in the 1960s of the game may be switched manually 14:22:36 <andythenorth> Timberwolf switch livery depending on CC choice :P 14:23:52 <andythenorth> oof this randomisation based on flip state of 2nd wagon in ID chain :| 14:23:55 <andythenorth> it's nearly brilliant 14:24:01 <andythenorth> and also very odd 14:49:51 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 14:52:00 <b_jonas> well now Sundwood will find out that it doesn't matter that they're the fourth largest city on the world map without passenger trains, they'll probably NEVER get connected to my vactrain network because they pissed me off way back when I tried to connect that scrapyard. you'll see how your NIMBY council decisions affect you now, when the other big cities will get vactrains 14:52:18 <b_jonas> they even have a hotel, won't sway me 14:52:20 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:52:21 <b_jonas> map is full of hotels 15:17:43 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:17:45 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Random forever 15:23:28 <andythenorth> maybe it does need a parameter 15:26:00 <andythenorth> for something like Schenker livery, it's not good on the wagons https://grf.farm/images/random_horse.png 15:28:35 <andythenorth> this has no group, so the engines and wagons have different colours 15:28:38 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/no_group.png 15:28:41 <andythenorth> much nicer imho 15:30:44 * andythenorth options 15:30:49 <andythenorth> * don't use groups? 15:31:06 <andythenorth> * do engine liveries with only 1CC, and use the 2CC only for wagons? 15:31:12 <andythenorth> * add a 3rd CC? 15:31:28 <andythenorth> * use recolour sprites to remap wagon colours to my choices, not players? 15:32:26 <andythenorth> * do 'realistic' coloured wagons only? 15:33:43 <nielsm> flat and box wagons tend to be mostly brown (maybe from wear and grime) while tankers have a bit of visible variation 15:36:52 <andythenorth> this 'problem' is of my own making 15:37:04 <andythenorth> the Horse wagon colours were designed against old livery UI 15:37:10 <andythenorth> then I campaigned for group liveries :) 15:38:07 <andythenorth> and group liveries cannot split the colours by vehicle type 15:38:19 <nielsm> make wagons only use the 1cc but have the 2cc select what kind of random variations show 15:39:26 <b_jonas> andythenorth: yes, I mentioned that, I can't color the one or two engineering station flat wagon to blue 15:39:39 <b_jonas> but they luckily look different enough even in the same color 15:40:01 <nielsm> maybe the group liveries should have a flag to control whether they apply to everything, only locos, or only wagons 15:40:12 <nielsm> (and then figure out how it determines what's a loco and what's not) 15:41:02 <andythenorth> game already knows that for buy menu sort order 15:41:09 <andythenorth> and for current liveries actually 15:42:25 <b_jonas> the game knows what's an engine because if you buy a lone engine then it counts as a train, if you buy a lone wagon it isn't a train 15:46:36 <andythenorth> there are shenanigans though 15:46:42 <andythenorth> is it an engine or a railcar? 15:46:47 <andythenorth> or an electric engine? 15:46:55 <andythenorth> is it a passenger coach or a freight wagon? 15:47:04 <andythenorth> the current livery UI has all the extra crap in it 15:51:40 <andythenorth> hmm, what if we just replaced it all? 16:05:44 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 16:08:29 *** openttdguest has joined #openttd 16:22:29 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 16:36:07 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:45:18 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 17:10:58 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:10:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:25:16 <andythenorth> hmm 17:25:25 <andythenorth> Horse depot sprites should maybe have text overlays 17:25:38 <andythenorth> 'ctrl-click this vehicle to change colour' 17:25:53 <andythenorth> can we increase size of depot sprites for trains? 17:25:59 <andythenorth> I need to write quite detailed instructions per vehicle 17:26:32 <andythenorth> about 400px high per train will be enough, at 2x zoom 17:26:54 <andythenorth> currently they are about 30px high at 2x zoom 17:31:50 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/horse_depot_instructions.png 17:33:34 <frosch123> i think we need a new term for BAD FEATURE. the old one is not sufficient 17:34:12 <andythenorth> 'probably fine' 17:34:13 <andythenorth> ? 17:34:26 <frosch123> bad feature is not good enough, we need to go to ludicrous feature 17:35:33 <andythenorth> I am suspending judgement :) 17:41:04 <andythenorth> does nml have an XOR 17:41:19 <andythenorth> I am trying to do it by multiplying returns that are 1 or -1 17:41:24 <andythenorth> but it's not working :P 17:41:39 <frosch123> there should be a ^ 17:41:56 <frosch123> blame C for using silly characters 17:42:14 <TrueBrain> Jam ... raspberry.. looonnneeessstttaaaarrrrrr 17:42:33 <TrueBrain> (In reference to the ludicrous feature) 17:42:49 <frosch123> good that you added that :) 17:43:12 <TrueBrain> For those that don't understand the reference: learn some culture 17:54:39 * andythenorth does bad things 17:56:14 <andythenorth> how about a little dice icon for the wagon that randomises crap 17:56:53 <andythenorth> this is a mad interface 17:57:02 <andythenorth> first wagon in ID chain toggle 1cc or 2cc Recolour 17:57:11 <andythenorth> last wagon makes it all same, or random per vehicle 17:57:20 <andythenorth> ctrl-click is the UI 17:59:26 <b_jonas> andythenorth: or just use the refit interface to do things with specific cars other than refitting 17:59:37 <andythenorth> I hate the livery spec 17:59:40 <andythenorth> I won't use it 18:00:02 <b_jonas> refit already has a nice interface to select specific cars, it could also do paint jobs or whatever modifications you want 18:00:30 <b_jonas> don't put little icons over cars, that'll just make the normal things more difficult to do 18:00:48 <b_jonas> especially not little icons that you have to click on 18:00:56 <b_jonas> there's a good reason why they don't have trashcan icons on them already 18:01:28 <b_jonas> plus I want to see what the train looks like in the depot window 18:01:32 <b_jonas> so no overlays 18:02:09 <andythenorth> I think overlays are the future :) 18:10:08 <andythenorth> frosch123 BAD enough? grf.farm/images/probably_fine.m4v 18:10:15 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/probably_fine.m4v 18:15:59 <andythenorth> I probably really shouldn't 18:24:47 <_dp_> ron don don... xD https://i.imgur.com/9FpxIJe.png 18:27:03 <andythenorth> so good 18:27:43 <_dp_> live on -: CityMania.org TEST Need For Speed :- server ;) 18:30:56 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/probably_fine.m4v <- and if you click in the middle? 18:31:08 <andythenorth> flips the current colour of the vehicle 18:31:30 <andythenorth> that's current released behaviour 18:32:00 <andythenorth> it's about 50:50 whether I want random for a train or not 18:33:49 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 18:37:52 *** openttdguest has left #openttd 18:41:23 <andythenorth> give me a simple counter for how many times ctrl-click has been used on a vehicle :P 18:42:55 <andythenorth> 4 bits would be enough :P 18:45:26 <_dp_> funnily enough that's probably doable with a patched server :p 18:45:42 <andythenorth> forks are the future? 18:46:10 <_dp_> forks are the present! :p 18:48:29 <andythenorth> hmm this does need vehicle overlay 18:48:33 <andythenorth> pixel dice! 18:48:57 <Wolf01> Yes, that's better 18:50:33 <andythenorth> better than...? :) 19:09:08 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 19:09:45 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:09:59 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:12:08 <Wolf01> Better than ctrl+click 19:18:38 <andythenorth> well :) 19:18:44 <andythenorth> everyone seems to hate the ctrl-click 19:18:55 <andythenorth> but every other UI for livery has been rejected out of hand 19:22:24 <b_jonas> what's wrong with the refit dialog? 19:25:54 <nielsm> it's not part of the purchase UI, it's annoying to change just some of the wagons, and it's called refit instead of select variant or something like that 19:29:12 <andythenorth> the livery refit spec was mixed up with cargos for some reason 19:29:24 <andythenorth> so if there are 64 cargos in the game, it's very long menu 19:29:29 <andythenorth> just to choose a livery 19:30:25 <andythenorth> also it's called 'cargo subtypes' in the docs 19:30:39 <andythenorth> but all the realism sets call it 'livery' so we should retcon it 19:30:41 <andythenorth> like html5 19:40:32 <nielsm> "vehicle variants" would encompass both cargo and livery 19:40:58 <nielsm> and moving the button to the depot might also work, maybe 19:45:19 <andythenorth> it was just going to be done on IDs 19:45:24 <andythenorth> and disclosure in buy menu 19:45:29 <andythenorth> but that idea hasn't stuck :) 19:45:51 <andythenorth> we have plenty of IDs 19:46:14 <nielsm> something about the refits available only knowable after purchase? 19:48:25 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> everyone seems to hate the ctrl-click <- that's because hides features 19:48:44 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 19:50:22 <andythenorth> but when I draw a GUI for it, it's rejected :) 19:50:25 <andythenorth> for getting in the way 19:53:59 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:54:11 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:54:24 <andythenorth> I didn't see the problem :P https://grf.farm/images/vehicle_options.png 19:54:42 <Wolf01> That hides the vehicles :P 19:55:57 <Wolf01> We should raise the rows by some pixels and make space for options which are shown only if vehicles supports them 19:59:18 <andythenorth> that was rejected earlier :) 19:59:21 <andythenorth> I asked for 400 pixels 19:59:31 <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/horse_depot_instructions.png 20:00:07 <glx> that's just silly ;) 20:00:24 <Wolf01> I was writing the same thing 20:02:28 <glx> maybe use the "dropdown" thing, but in vehicle window, there's a tab with each element on different lines 20:03:08 <glx> depot window is not the ideal place I think 20:03:46 *** Progman has quit IRC 20:03:58 <andythenorth> it's weird that we accept modifiers all over the place 20:04:05 <andythenorth> ctrl-drag, shift-click 20:04:09 <andythenorth> even ctrl-click in depot etc 20:04:11 <nielsm> reimagine the entire purchasing and assembling trains UI 20:04:12 <andythenorth> and in operating systems 20:04:25 <andythenorth> but we think this one specific use of ctrl-click is too wrong? 20:04:37 *** Progman has joined #openttd 20:04:45 <andythenorth> why is it ctrl-click to flip the vehicle obviously correct? 20:04:59 <andythenorth> nielsm templates :P 20:06:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: no, it is wrong 20:06:38 <frosch123> the depot is mainly a train list, and for moving stuff between trains 20:06:47 <frosch123> it's not for designing indivudal trains 20:07:12 <frosch123> i guess the template-based train patch added a separate gui for desiging consists 20:07:34 <glx> for me vehicle variant should be an option of buy window, and in vehicle details window, it has nothing to do in depot window 20:08:48 <andythenorth> frosch123 https://grf.farm/images/very-groupy.png 20:08:49 <andythenorth> ? 20:09:00 <frosch123> the ctrl+click for reversing trains should be removed imo :) 20:09:30 <glx> yeah reversing is usually broken ;) 20:09:55 <andythenorth> ctrl-click should increment a counter :P 20:10:04 <andythenorth> anyway, the variants-in-buy-menu 20:10:10 <andythenorth> is not very representative 20:10:14 <andythenorth> due to group livery setting 20:10:25 <andythenorth> or other newgrf bollocks 20:11:05 <andythenorth> some kind of 'configure my train' window? 20:15:48 <andythenorth> the 'more random is better' that frosch123 likes is kind of the opposite of 'perfectly configure my train' 20:15:54 <andythenorth> not sure a configure UI helps there 20:17:11 <andythenorth> so maybe layered approach 20:17:55 <frosch123> yes, i am pretty much a "i build many trains, i do not design them one-by-one"-player 20:18:01 <andythenorth> proposal 1) OpenTTD (not newgrf) gains a 'random company colour per vehicle from range' option (probably tied to group, not individual trains?) 20:18:48 <andythenorth> proposal 2) something something variants, that can be chosen either (A) before purchase or (B) changed after purchase (more fun for player) 20:19:19 <andythenorth> I see no reason why newgrf should be able to forbid (1) even though some authors might disagree 20:22:21 <andythenorth> I do think it might need to have rules for different vehicles though, e.g. wagons vs. engines 20:23:54 *** tokai has joined #openttd 20:23:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 20:25:52 <glx> for a passenger train I think all wagons should use the same livery, but for a cargo train a different livery per wagon looks better 20:26:49 <andythenorth> rework of current CC livery UI then :) 20:30:55 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 20:36:27 <Wolf01> <glx> for a passenger train I think all wagons should use the same livery, but for a cargo train a different livery per wagon looks better <- even on passenger trains there should be different graffitis 20:36:36 <glx> haha 20:37:06 <glx> yeah but a common color scheme for the graffiti background 20:41:19 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 20:41:37 *** Samu has joined #openttd 20:42:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Terkhen 20:42:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v michi_cc 20:42:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DorpsGek 20:43:34 * _dp_ time to crack some NUTS 20:47:46 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:53:15 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 21:00:58 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:05:45 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 21:36:54 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:37:12 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:45:34 <andythenorth> btw nml procedures have been so useful thanks :) 21:47:39 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:49:16 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 22:05:27 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:13:19 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:46:39 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:52:56 *** GT has joined #openttd 23:06:00 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:18:27 *** GT has left #openttd 23:29:34 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:47:56 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 23:48:08 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd