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00:08:01 <Gustavo6046> Hello! 00:08:23 <Gustavo6046> I have been toying with the concept of intertwining a city's road network with waterways. Did I do it right? 00:08:25 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/hAp6dpS.png 00:09:20 <Gustavo6046> I feel like I did one thing wrong, but I always feel that way lol 00:09:25 <Gustavo6046> (perhaps because I always do at least one thing wrong) 00:42:25 <Gustavo6046> You really have to add buoy orders manually?! ;-; 00:42:37 <Gustavo6046> Why not have the buoys be like pathnodes, so we can have a hierarchical-based pathfinding algorithm? 00:44:01 <Gustavo6046> Maybe keep track of what buoys can reach what buoys/docks (by searching for pathfindable waypoints in a manhattan radius of 30 tiles) 00:44:16 <Gustavo6046> Then when a ship wants to go from A to B, consider this high-level graph first 00:44:24 <Gustavo6046> before connecting each node on a per-tile basis 01:20:26 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 01:54:26 *** b_jonas has quit IRC 02:02:12 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:14:07 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:17:32 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:32:33 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 03:10:45 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:17:33 *** glx has quit IRC 05:14:32 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 05:35:56 *** Guest5399 is now known as planetmaker 06:06:33 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:10:57 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 07:13:04 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 07:29:49 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:34:40 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:36:08 <Wolf01> Hmmm, I wanted to make some little scripts for fun, but I know well myself and I would end up creating entire applications and overcomplicate the starting idea 07:36:34 <Wolf01> Now I understand andythenorth :| 07:36:53 <andythenorth> think of the time you'll save though 07:37:07 <andythenorth> and you'd have a framework for creating scripts 07:37:57 <Wolf01> By not doing them, yes, because doing them is a waste of time anyway as they will be useless and I could already find alternatives 07:38:47 <andythenorth> the most best way to complete a project: 'invalid' 07:39:05 <andythenorth> or 'not doing' 07:39:23 <andythenorth> my favourite ticket statuses 07:40:22 <Wolf01> I should tell this to boss when I'll get to work again, I wonder if I'll get to keep the job 07:50:06 <andythenorth> I am in the top 3 people for invalidating tickets :P 07:50:18 <andythenorth> I'm only not #1 because I am sometimes lazy and ask someone else to do it 08:54:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on issue #29: Send download URL via API https://git.io/JfktR 08:55:06 <TrueBrain> right ... guess I should start working on the AWS migration again 08:55:15 <TrueBrain> the temperature is down enough that I guess focusing is possible again 08:58:17 <andythenorth> huzzah 08:58:22 * andythenorth needs to do AWS stuff 08:58:42 <andythenorth> but it's Monday, so I have to do socially-responsible capitalism first 08:59:02 <TrueBrain> "cloudfront: (cloudfront) Changed IDs for Distributions (will cause resource replacement)." <- owh boy, updating CDK will be slow 08:59:20 <andythenorth> oof 08:59:37 <andythenorth> also I should learn about cloudfront, and stop clicking the 'manual invalidation /*' option 09:00:12 <TrueBrain> only if you want to :) 09:00:35 <andythenorth> AWS have a politely worded hint that It's Very Silly 09:01:23 <TrueBrain> I automated it via cli commands in a GitHub Action :P 09:02:54 <andythenorth> I'm going to do something a bit similar 09:09:51 <TrueBrain> I am always scared to death to redeploy with the latest CDK .. no clue what breaks ... 09:09:56 <TrueBrain> it is going to redo most of the DNS entries 09:09:58 <TrueBrain> this will be fun 09:09:59 <TrueBrain> YOLO! 09:29:32 <TrueBrain> guess it is summer .. not many nightlies this month .. (2 so far :P) 09:31:22 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 09:38:29 <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh dear 09:38:58 <TrueBrain> LordAro: what? 09:39:11 <LordAro> 2/16 isn't a good hit rate 09:39:16 <LordAro> someone should do some stuff 09:39:30 <TrueBrain> yeah, LordAro , do some stuff :P 09:39:30 <TrueBrain> :D 09:44:01 <TrueBrain> changing the IAM policy on the ECS cluster .. what could possibly go wrong .. fingers crossed 09:45:29 <andythenorth> I have to set up a proper IAM policy 09:45:34 <andythenorth> I hate this kind of admin :) 09:45:39 <andythenorth> so the opposite of what I'm good at 09:45:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on issue #29: Send download URL via API https://git.io/JfktR 09:45:55 <andythenorth> weekend project: draw Venn diagram of things andythenorth is good at, and everything else 09:46:38 <TrueBrain> updating all DNS records ... lets see if everything is still working in a bit :P 09:48:29 <TrueBrain> seems to be okay :P 09:53:23 <TrueBrain> meh; GitHub dependabot still cannot make a single PR for all dependency updates 09:53:33 <TrueBrain> I really do not like a PR per dependency .. 09:53:42 <TrueBrain> guess that only works if you keep up constantly or what-ever 09:53:50 <TrueBrain> requires a lot of automated testing to make that useful, I guess 09:55:19 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: why are you talking about "weekend projects" on a monday .. do you know what can happen between now and the weekend?! 09:56:14 <andythenorth> is this a question of semantics, and the unknowable future? 09:56:30 <andythenorth> or do you think I might get hit by a bus? 09:56:44 <TrueBrain> no no, nothing of that sorts 09:56:45 <TrueBrain> please no 09:56:55 <TrueBrain> more that you will have 5 more of these "weekend projects" before the week is over 09:56:59 <TrueBrain> and then feel sad you cannot do them all 09:57:14 <FLHerne> We should just clone him 09:57:21 <TrueBrain> do we REALLY want to do that? 09:57:22 <andythenorth> isn't that like....the essence of life though? 09:57:25 <TrueBrain> can you really handle that FLHerne ? 09:57:29 <andythenorth> life is making choices 09:57:38 <FLHerne> Well, not right now 09:57:40 <andythenorth> mostly I choose to play Blitz, and regret it 09:57:55 <TrueBrain> I am trying REALLY hard to not start WoW .. 09:58:00 <TrueBrain> it is REALLY hard not to :( 09:58:04 <TrueBrain> I like writing REALLY like this 09:58:06 <FLHerne> But if you invest a few million dollars in this biotech company I'm about to start, in a few short years who knows what might be possible?! 09:58:11 <TrueBrain> it makes me feel REALLY important 09:58:22 <andythenorth> REALLY 09:58:24 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: I was not talking about the possibility of it, more the outcome 09:58:28 <TrueBrain> I mean .. more than one andythenorth .. 09:58:32 <andythenorth> I keep playing warcraft 1 09:58:33 <TrueBrain> can we really handle that? 09:58:40 <andythenorth> I stayed up waaaaaaaay too late 09:58:42 <FLHerne> NML probably can't 09:58:43 <TrueBrain> They will talk to each other .... 09:58:47 <TrueBrain> constantly 09:58:50 <TrueBrain> about trains 09:58:50 <andythenorth> I talk to myself, it's fine 09:58:53 <TrueBrain> and disagreeing 09:58:58 <TrueBrain> and opening their forum PMs 09:59:03 <FLHerne> We'll end up with generated files where the line number overflows 09:59:05 <andythenorth> TrueBrain I think you're describing the current situation? 09:59:16 <TrueBrain> ssssttttt 09:59:22 <FLHerne> Also, all the bugs will be closed for spurious reasons 09:59:30 <andythenorth> I really wanted to try a custom game in Warcraft 1 with no peons at the start 09:59:35 <TrueBrain> we will hit negative issues on GitHub :) 09:59:37 <andythenorth> but if peons are 0, you can't train any 09:59:55 <andythenorth> I did try 1 peon and 6 catapults and a raider 09:59:58 <andythenorth> very hard 10:00:18 <TrueBrain> that's what she said 10:00:39 <andythenorth> do we keep doing that joke? 10:00:43 <TrueBrain> yes 10:00:43 <andythenorth> I thought it was over 10:00:53 <TrueBrain> why would you think that? 10:01:10 <TrueBrain> at what point did anyone give any indication it would be over? 10:01:33 <andythenorth> there seems to be a mismatch 10:01:43 <andythenorth> between how I want the world to be, and how it is 10:01:46 <andythenorth> that's just me, right? 10:01:51 <andythenorth> nobody else feels that? 10:01:58 <TrueBrain> looks at US .. no, we all have this :P 10:05:03 <TrueBrain> so, where was I on my trello board .. 10:05:10 <TrueBrain> owh, right, MSU .. 10:06:01 <TrueBrain> https://trello.com/b/6j90aRB1/openttd <- backlog is not THAT big, I guess 10:07:08 <andythenorth> you could prioritise this one? https://trello.com/c/iizhksNO/30-make-openttd-mmo-capable 10:07:15 <TrueBrain> :D 10:08:03 <TrueBrain> CDK is still deploying AWS .. after an update it can take such a long time .. 10:08:43 <_dp_> wc -l bugs.txt 10:08:44 <_dp_> 157 10:08:50 * _dp_ sighs 10:08:56 <TrueBrain> git rm bugs.txt 10:09:03 <TrueBrain> git commit -m "Fixed the bugs.txt" 10:14:03 <TrueBrain> okay .. so now it is time to upgrade the EC2 instances .. this causes some downtime, which is very unlikely anyone notices :) 10:21:28 <frosch123> wow.... turns out github wiki has no method to upload images, unless you do a local git-checkout 10:21:44 <TrueBrain> drag&drop it in there, not? 10:22:16 <frosch123> https://github.com/RWTH-EBC/AixLib/wiki/How-to:-Add-images-to-the-Wiki#adding-images-explained-by-adding-images <- people use these insane work-arounds 10:22:44 <TrueBrain> talking about wiki, where shall I document how BaNaNaS works? In the wiki of BaNaNaS repo, or in bananas-api? Or a new repo with commits? Any preferences? 10:22:59 <FLHerne> First one sounds sane 10:23:16 <FLHerne> I don't think anyone would ever find it in the others 10:23:28 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what is your audience? 10:23:41 <frosch123> users, uploaders, bananas devs? 10:23:48 <TrueBrain> documentation about the BaNaNaS YAML format, why the md5 stuff, how these repos are organised 10:23:53 <TrueBrain> so more the dev-side 10:24:06 <TrueBrain> users and uploaders should be taken care of by bananas-frontend-web 10:24:33 <TrueBrain> wiki vs git is mostly about tracking and approving changes 10:24:44 <TrueBrain> the repo itself is more: what repo do you open to find documentation 10:24:53 <TrueBrain> guess we can link to a single one from the rest, so not a biggy 10:26:34 <TrueBrain> I was considering making a bananas-docs, just to have a single place to store that all :P 10:28:16 <FLHerne> No 10:28:40 <TrueBrain> okay, no documentation it is, tnx :) :P 10:28:54 <FLHerne> :D 10:29:03 <TrueBrain> that was not really a helpful reply ;) 10:29:43 <FLHerne> I already find the split of bananas-related repos confusing 10:29:52 <TrueBrain> that cannot be helped, really 10:29:54 <FLHerne> Adding another one would not be helpful, IMO 10:29:55 *** DorpsGek_III has quit IRC 10:30:06 <TrueBrain> well, it would, if it explains how the other interconnect ofc 10:30:13 <TrueBrain> and link them all back to the documentation 10:30:16 <TrueBrain> so you can click through them 10:30:28 <TrueBrain> the problem I have, there is not a single repo where all the documentation should go 10:30:34 <TrueBrain> so that would result in splintered documentation 10:30:41 <TrueBrain> which is possibly more confusing 10:31:00 <TrueBrain> (but this is also exactly why I bring it up, as I need opinions :D) 10:31:17 <TrueBrain> BaNaNaS is a complex setup, basically :) 10:31:35 <TrueBrain> I wish you could group repositories in GitHub, that would be nice 10:34:00 <andythenorth> TrueBrain how about here? :D https://wiki.openttd.org/Development 10:34:06 <andythenorth> after I tidied it all up so nicely! 10:34:33 <TrueBrain> sorry, I really refuse to document this on the wiki 10:34:43 <andythenorth> oof, how rude :) 10:34:53 <TrueBrain> I know right 10:37:03 <TrueBrain> funny, you can have projects in the organisation now 10:37:06 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i consider bananas-api the master repo. the other bananas-* are secondary 10:37:10 <TrueBrain> allows you to make tickets cross repos :) 10:37:21 <TrueBrain> frosch123: not even bananas-server? :D 10:37:50 <frosch123> from the nml experience, people want to extend docs together with the code 10:37:53 <TrueBrain> I am fine by marking bananas-api as primary; in the end, it doesn't really matter, as long as I have a single place I can write down what we did and why and blablabla :P 10:38:05 <frosch123> so, it should be a doc/foobar.md within the bananas-api repo. no separate wiki 10:38:26 <TrueBrain> not even the GitHub wiki? 10:38:41 <frosch123> github wikis are a separate git repository 10:38:41 <LordAro> i dislike github wikis 10:38:49 <frosch123> so you cannot make a PR for both code and docs 10:38:52 <LordAro> they've always had a "tacked on" feel to them 10:38:57 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that is very true 10:39:07 <TrueBrain> LordAro: but perfect for documentation :) 10:39:28 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I cannot come up with a reason not to do it like that, so meh .. 10:39:38 <TrueBrain> well, the folder name .. should be "docs" in my opinion, not "doc" :D 10:39:44 <frosch123> LordAro: i just spent 4 days to extract ottd wiki into a git repository. and now learn that github wiki has no method to upload images for regular users 10:39:51 <frosch123> LordAro: so, yeah. github wiki is insane 10:40:10 <TrueBrain> :( 10:40:12 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's "docs" in ottd 10:40:22 <TrueBrain> good :) 10:40:37 <TrueBrain> okay, I will write some shit down; after that people can tell me what I missed :p 10:41:11 <TrueBrain> 2 out of the 4 EC2 instances replaced .. 2 more to go :) 10:42:27 <frosch123> TrueBrain: and yes, that image drag/drop only works for issues, not for the wiki 10:42:46 <frosch123> and the url will be disassociated from the wiki data, so a hell for all future migrations 10:42:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that -is- insane 10:42:57 <frosch123> it's essentially like an external url 10:43:07 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 10:43:07 <TrueBrain> I did not expect that tbfh 10:43:37 <frosch123> me neither. i was checking all those template-magic, that fails in gollum/github wiki 10:43:46 <frosch123> i did not expect it would fall flat on images :p 10:44:01 <frosch123> (though they work fine, if you add them via a git checkout) 10:45:00 <TrueBrain> the unexpected problems :( 10:45:15 <TrueBrain> I really do love how OpenTTD now runs on AWS .. 10:45:35 <frosch123> except the bill :p 10:45:42 <TrueBrain> updating EC2 instances is like this: update the base image in the configuration of the auto-scale group. Scale up to twice the instances you had. Scale down to the former value 10:45:50 <TrueBrain> everything is taken care of automatically 10:46:09 <TrueBrain> when scaling up, the instances receive their configuration, and are added to the pool of what-ever they are for 10:46:29 <TrueBrain> when scaling down, they are first deregistered, it waits till all TCP connections are gone (or 5 minute timeout), and destroys the VMs 10:46:40 <TrueBrain> as the VMs don't contain any data, this works absolutely fine :) 10:46:45 <andythenorth> we use something like this for running automated tests 10:46:54 <TrueBrain> yeah, the bill is annoying :P But .. we still have plenty of credits :) 10:46:59 <andythenorth> moving prod to this is a whole other world, though 10:47:19 <andythenorth> "as the VMs contain lots of data, this is a problem" etc 10:47:23 <TrueBrain> well, I just upgrades all the machines in ~20 minutes, mostly because I forgot to press buttons when it was done with the next step :D 10:47:52 <TrueBrain> yeah .. VMs in AWS should really not contain any data :) 10:48:24 <TrueBrain> and now, lunch time! 10:49:41 <andythenorth> pls restore peter1138 from backups 10:49:47 <andythenorth> I miss lunch advice 10:50:01 <frosch123> btw. the .git dir for the wiki is 1 GB 10:54:12 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i think i might have said it before a long time ago, but i would like to keep the wiki around - i'm happy to try to do some work on making it work with the new infrastructure 10:54:37 <LordAro> i saw something recently that suggested we might be able to actually create a docker image without too much effort 10:54:51 <andythenorth> is mediawiki hosting a thing? 10:54:56 <LordAro> not really 10:55:08 <andythenorth> £1 / month? 10:55:12 * andythenorth googled 10:55:23 <TrueBrain> Not meant rude, but yes, you have said this for a few years now ;) but talk to frosch123 about this :) 10:55:34 <andythenorth> "Get The 20X FASTER MediaWiki Host Featuring High Performance Turbo Servers." definitely I'm convinced 10:55:36 <andythenorth> 20X 10:55:37 <andythenorth> FASTER 10:55:59 <LordAro> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki-Docker 10:56:21 <frosch123> LordAro: the problem is hosting the database 10:56:26 <frosch123> they are all expensive 10:57:17 <LordAro> and there's nothing magical that AWS provides, i guess? 10:57:28 <frosch123> so, if we keep mediawiki, we will probably keep a vps, and not do it in the cloud 10:58:23 <TrueBrain> And then we need to talk about who is going to maintain that :) 10:58:45 <andythenorth> can't we move it all to fandom? 10:59:10 <LordAro> ugly and full of ads? ew. 10:59:48 <TrueBrain> AWS supports EFS on ECS these days btw (read, shared storage for docker) 11:00:21 <frosch123> hmm, we could make a silly webapp for uploading images to github wiki :p 11:00:43 <TrueBrain> Haha, not super difficult tbh 11:01:04 <TrueBrain> Cannot believe they do not support it .. 11:02:02 <frosch123> oh, looks like gollum supports uploads... 11:02:11 <frosch123> let's try in my local installtion 11:14:59 <frosch123> well, you can upload files, but you cannot update them 11:15:10 <frosch123> you have to delete/rename the old one first 11:16:49 <TrueBrain> Pretty common not? 11:17:44 <frosch123> so you always rename files in your git checkout, before you add the new file with your edits? 11:19:42 <TrueBrain> Lol, that is one way of translating what I said. Not the most productive one, but okay :p but no, most systems don't allow you to overwrite files on upload 11:19:57 <TrueBrain> They either add a (1) or refuse it 11:20:43 <TrueBrain> For wikis you have the added issue you don't know where the image is used .. so that would be a bonus, not to be able to overwrite, not? 11:22:02 <frosch123> when people update images, they replace them with images from newer ottd releases, or (in the past) replaced them with more aggressive png compression 11:22:22 <frosch123> it would be fine, if there was a button "upload update for this upload" 11:22:24 <frosch123> but there isn'T 11:22:48 <frosch123> anyway, i'll ignore the images for now (custom app is possible), and check out how much of the template magic fails 11:23:09 <TrueBrain> people do that? Funny :) Wouldn't expect that :) 11:23:31 <TrueBrain> and if we want, we can always make a PR in gollum I guess :) 11:23:33 <frosch123> current state is that gollum aborts rendering when it does not a single part of some template (which appears stupid) 11:23:38 <frosch123> and it fails with the inter-language links 11:23:45 <frosch123> so most ottd wiki pages currently render as "error" :p 11:23:58 <TrueBrain> which is an upgrade for most pages :D 11:26:27 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/gollum-mainpage.png <- without custom css it looks like that 11:26:42 <andythenorth> sounds like I need to leave the channel now :D 11:26:48 <TrueBrain> that is not bad 11:26:48 <frosch123> :p 11:27:01 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: why? 11:27:17 <frosch123> TrueBrain: "css" is close to "brexit" 11:27:58 <TrueBrain> r/whoosh 11:28:16 <andythenorth> I have a theory about who ends up writing the css 11:29:10 <TrueBrain> ah; well, tnx for volunteering :) 11:29:26 *** DorpsGek_III has joined #openttd 11:29:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #60: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings https://git.io/JJFKu 11:31:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #60: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings https://git.io/JJFKu 11:31:24 <TrueBrain> cool, vscode inserted my credentials correctly when I wanted to push via the Terminal inside vscode .. that makes me happy :) 11:32:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] LordAro approved pull request #60: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings https://git.io/JJFKw 11:32:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #60: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings https://git.io/JJFKu 11:34:02 <TrueBrain> LordAro: anyway, to get back to mediawiki: I personally really do not care how we solve the wiki. Fact is, the current setup cannot survive :) So far frosch123 is the only one who actively has been busy looking for a solution :) 11:36:44 <andythenorth> unrelated, I'm assuming coop devzone is dead? 11:38:14 <frosch123> it is undead 11:38:50 <frosch123> sometimes parts that were killed before start moving again in some weird way 11:54:46 *** Laedek has quit IRC 12:31:13 *** GroovyNoodle has joined #openttd 12:41:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together https://git.io/JJFXM 12:41:50 <TrueBrain> very likely I forgot to write things down, but lets update the documentation when we get questions about stuff not documented 12:42:07 <TrueBrain> this should resolve my promise to LordAro to document it better :) 12:42:32 <TrueBrain> but do tell me if this isn't the case :) 12:44:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together https://git.io/JJFXM 12:45:39 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: if you have some time, I would love to know if documentation like this (start at introduction.md) helps out understand the amount of repos involved :) 12:48:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot opened pull request #62: Config file for pyup.io https://git.io/JJFXj 12:49:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot opened pull request #63: Initial Update https://git.io/JJF12 12:51:03 <TrueBrain> guess pyup has to do, till GitHub can create a single PR for all updates .. 12:51:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #24: Config file for pyup.io https://git.io/JJF1D 12:52:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #25: Initial Update https://git.io/JJFMv 12:52:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #36: Config file for pyup.io https://git.io/JJFMk 12:52:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #37: Initial Update https://git.io/JJFM3 12:53:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot opened pull request #7: Config file for pyup.io https://git.io/JJFMn 12:53:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot opened pull request #8: Initial Update https://git.io/JJFMu 12:57:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together https://git.io/JJFM1 12:58:24 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] FLHerne commented on pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together https://git.io/JJFMQ 12:58:30 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I really cannot remember any discussion around hyphens. Only around plural :P 12:58:37 <TrueBrain> I am fine with what-ever, so I will change it :) 12:59:01 <frosch123> i am not sure how helpful the paragraph on the byte-swapping of unique-ids is. 12:59:13 <frosch123> it may be more confusing than helpful :p 12:59:35 <frosch123> maybe just call it "human-readable" format (which may include byte-swapping) 12:59:40 <TrueBrain> nice :D 13:01:57 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together https://git.io/JJFXM 13:05:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 approved pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together https://git.io/JJFDS 13:05:17 <frosch123> unless you want to wait for the customers 13:05:21 <frosch123> to read it 13:33:38 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:37:27 <TrueBrain> it is a beginning. I rather receive requests :) 13:37:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #61: Add: bunch of documentation of how BaNaNaS components work together https://git.io/JJFXM 13:39:16 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 13:39:20 <supermop_Home> yo 13:41:36 <andythenorth> yo 13:41:59 <supermop_Home> weekend of no trains 13:42:13 <supermop_Home> only comical numbers of subarus 13:46:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain opened pull request #64: Fix: move text about documentation to top of README https://git.io/JJF94 13:46:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #26: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings https://git.io/JJF9B 13:46:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain opened pull request #38: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS https://git.io/JJF9R 13:46:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain opened pull request #9: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS https://git.io/JJF9u 13:46:59 <TrueBrain> SO MANY COMMITS :P 13:47:49 <nielsm> f-strings sounds dirty 13:48:37 <TrueBrain> really? 13:48:48 <TrueBrain> so does the language D I guess? :) 13:52:35 <TrueBrain> Also: https://git.io/JJF97 for review 13:53:24 <_dp_> hm, weird, when I generate temperate 2030 game sometimes Dash(Diesel) is available and sometimes it isn't... 13:55:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 approved pull request #64: Fix: move text about documentation to top of README https://git.io/JJFHI 13:56:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] frosch123 approved pull request #26: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings https://git.io/JJFHt 13:57:19 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] frosch123 approved pull request #38: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS https://git.io/JJFHY 13:57:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] frosch123 approved pull request #9: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS https://git.io/JJFHG 13:58:00 <frosch123> revenge spm 13:58:03 <frosch123> *spam 13:58:15 <TrueBrain> <3 13:58:27 <LordAro> _dp_: right on the edge of expiring, perhaps? 13:58:34 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #64: Fix: move text about documentation to top of README https://git.io/JJF94 13:58:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #26: Fix: convert f-strings without variable to strings https://git.io/JJF9B 13:58:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #38: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS https://git.io/JJF9R 13:59:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain merged pull request #9: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS https://git.io/JJF9u 13:59:10 <TrueBrain> revenge revenge spam :) 13:59:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain opened pull request #27: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS https://git.io/JJFHu 13:59:51 <TrueBrain> and one more :) (last one, I promise) 14:00:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] frosch123 approved pull request #27: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS https://git.io/JJFH2 14:01:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #27: Add: hint in the README where to find more documentation about BaNaNaS https://git.io/JJFHu 14:01:37 <TrueBrain> right, that should resolve most of the "I do not understand BaNaNaS" questions :) 14:01:53 <_dp_> LordAro, yeah, looks like it 14:02:08 <_dp_> weird that it outlasts all other rail engines by 10 years though 14:02:19 <TrueBrain> who are you calling weird? 14:04:52 <LordAro> CS, probably 14:22:05 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Nice, thanks 14:22:23 <TrueBrain> :) 14:24:47 <_dp_> what does sort() in nml do? 14:24:55 <_dp_> sort(FEAT_TRAINS, [item_rail_EARLY_01, item_rail_EARLY_02, ... 14:25:22 <frosch123> it defines the order of trains in the purchase list 14:25:42 <_dp_> ah, ty 14:26:31 *** GroovyNoodle has quit IRC 14:31:28 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 14:32:25 *** glx has joined #openttd 14:32:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 15:40:23 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:37:54 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:52:02 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:52:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:03:29 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:06:31 <Gustavo6046> Why do the locks look like antigravity water slopes? 17:08:08 <nielsm> because anything more advanced would be annoying to code 17:09:40 <Gustavo6046> Ah 17:09:44 <Gustavo6046> I'm sure you can make building sprites look deeper than the actual tiles they're located in. 17:09:58 <Gustavo6046> "Anamorphism" is a stretch. It's.. just sprites. There are only four angles. 17:10:10 <Gustavo6046> Oh wait 17:10:12 <Gustavo6046> you mean like 17:10:18 <Gustavo6046> the throughput of multiple ships? 17:10:30 <Gustavo6046> I think bottlenecking at locks could be a pretty nice balancing tool! 17:10:36 <Gustavo6046> Maybe make it opt-in in the Limitations menu. 17:19:48 <nielsm> all kinds of problems, multiple ships is one of them 17:21:27 <glx> they can pile up everywhere anyway 17:26:34 <Gustavo6046> Ah 17:26:36 <Gustavo6046> Yeah 17:26:56 <Gustavo6046> nielsm: so no multi-staged locks? 17:27:06 <Gustavo6046> or whatever it's called 17:27:11 <Gustavo6046> one that goes up and down 17:27:16 <Gustavo6046> Why not just have a bunch of ships go in? 17:27:19 <Gustavo6046> Kinda like a shopping mall lift 17:27:33 <Gustavo6046> 65535 ships go in, lock goes up, 65535 ships go out 17:27:52 <nielsm> and then you'd want single-direction locks? 17:27:57 <Gustavo6046> ? 17:27:58 <Gustavo6046> Well 17:28:06 <Gustavo6046> we could have a more advanced lock 17:28:08 <nielsm> or ships waiting in fron of the lock if it's at the wrong height atm? 17:28:34 <Gustavo6046> a lift-lock, that starts in a ground canal, and you can add a level up (each level = exponential price), and each level must end in an aqueduct in one of four directions 17:28:52 <Gustavo6046> or nah 17:28:54 <Gustavo6046> nevermind 17:28:59 <Gustavo6046> nielsm: single-direction? 17:29:10 <Gustavo6046> Also, waiting is fine 17:29:16 <Gustavo6046> kinda like train signals 17:29:19 <nielsm> like two locks side by side and one only goes up and one only down 17:29:33 <Gustavo6046> ah 17:29:35 <Gustavo6046> could be nicee 17:29:40 <Gustavo6046> but then that would be two individual locks 17:30:03 <Gustavo6046> I did suggest at one point having a more hierarchical graph-based approach to ship pathfinding, where waypoints (buoys, docks, locks, etc) would be nodes in a graph, and the tile pathfinder would merely find and cache paths between those 17:30:32 <Gustavo6046> it would split cached paths into regions of 8x8 or something along these lines, so a single region change only needs an update in those particular path sections 17:30:35 <Gustavo6046> that would be efficient 17:30:40 <Gustavo6046> but I digress, that's on a more technical side 17:31:03 <Gustavo6046> the point is, with graphs, having "signals" internally to tell ships to wait would be trivial 17:31:27 <Gustavo6046> and really it would basically go unnoticed by the player, thanks to something called noclip (which all ships seem to have lol) 17:31:31 <Gustavo6046> idspispopd 17:31:50 <Gustavo6046> nielsm: locks could be one-way, but then that would be opt-in 17:32:01 <Gustavo6046> dropdown -> "Both" "Up" "Down" 17:32:06 <Gustavo6046> I want to try to implement that 17:32:15 <Gustavo6046> on the other hand I don't think I can do any actual improvements to existing OpenTTD pathfinders 17:32:26 <Gustavo6046> and I don't want to implement a new tile-based pathfinder, just a high-level pathfinder that uses that 17:32:31 <Gustavo6046> nodes -> regions -> tiles 17:32:44 <Gustavo6046> regions can be updated individually without having to update the entire path 17:33:09 <Gustavo6046> also, are contributions accepted via patch submission, or GitHub pull requests, or? 17:33:32 <nielsm> if you take the approach that water pathfinding features (like bouys and docks) are part of a graph and you only pathfind on that graph 17:34:00 <Gustavo6046> yes 17:34:01 <Gustavo6046> that is the point 17:34:06 <Gustavo6046> then 17:34:23 <nielsm> it would make sense that this graph is made by a simple nearest neighbors algorithm kind of thing, i.e. a bouy just searches for the nearest 3 neighbors or a max distance whichever is hit first 17:34:31 <Gustavo6046> yeah 17:34:56 <Gustavo6046> nielsm: additionally, we could have those waypoints cache all reachable water tiles in a radius of up to 20 or something 17:35:08 <Gustavo6046> or uh nevermind 17:35:23 <Gustavo6046> but we could add an upper limit to the length of a path between two nodes 17:35:31 <Gustavo6046> something between 30 and 50 or something 17:35:37 <Gustavo6046> have it be adjustable (and opt-out, of course!) 17:35:45 <Gustavo6046> and buoys would serve as pathnodes 17:35:53 <Gustavo6046> it wouldn't be a per-tile search based limit so 17:36:15 <Gustavo6046> also, I don't know how comfortable I am in writing my contributions in C++ in contrast to Rust, but I will try my best 17:36:48 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 17:36:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 17:43:43 *** tokai has quit IRC 17:48:55 <andythenorth> rust conversion :P 17:49:52 <Gustavo6046> lol 17:49:56 <Gustavo6046> ? 17:49:58 <Gustavo6046> anyway 17:50:37 <Gustavo6046> also, if I have a peninsula with rails on it, what is the best way to get ships across it (more efficient than going round)? Two spires with locks and an aqueduct? 17:50:48 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/ZzHBw1o.png 17:52:46 <nielsm> I guess you could lower the inside part of the peninsula so you can build aqueduct over it 17:52:48 <Gustavo6046> Imagine underground aqueducts 17:52:50 <Gustavo6046> Ah 17:52:57 <Gustavo6046> Lower? 17:53:21 <Gustavo6046> Like this? https://i.imgur.com/qbntThN.png 17:53:22 <nielsm> lower the inside part to sea level 17:53:25 <Gustavo6046> Oh 17:53:30 <Gustavo6046> But then how do I put rails 17:53:32 <Gustavo6046> oh 17:53:34 <Gustavo6046> I get it 17:53:38 <nielsm> so you don't need two locks on each end 17:53:40 <Gustavo6046> the sea level part does not have water 17:53:46 <Gustavo6046> because it's sealed by terrain 17:53:51 <Gustavo6046> but this is sea level 17:54:09 <Gustavo6046> https://i.imgur.com/ZnspYBj.png 17:54:33 <Gustavo6046> but I think I got it 17:54:40 <Gustavo6046> I have to lower the rails down but not let water get in 17:54:45 <Gustavo6046> and then I only need two locks, not four? 17:54:48 <Gustavo6046> I mean in total 17:54:51 <nielsm> yes 17:54:51 <Gustavo6046> so one in each end 17:54:54 <Gustavo6046> nice 17:55:01 <Gustavo6046> thanks! 17:55:13 <nielsm> since locks slow down ships significantly 17:55:19 <Gustavo6046> also there are already maglevs but I have this one crappy monorail line I'm a bit lazy to change lol 17:56:00 <Gustavo6046> Oh wait 17:56:07 <Gustavo6046> I just found out.. it turns out those aren't my rails 17:56:25 <Gustavo6046> AdmiralAI 17:56:32 <nielsm> heh 17:56:33 <Gustavo6046> I wonder what is the new state-of-the-art for AI. 17:56:39 <Gustavo6046> I remember Admiral being cool 17:58:53 <Wolf01> https://hackaday.com/2020/08/17/the-mostly-forgotten-story-of-atmospheric-railway/ 18:05:36 *** urdh has quit IRC 18:05:49 *** urdh has joined #openttd 18:11:10 <Gustavo6046> Wolf01: we have one here in Porto Alegre 18:11:19 <Gustavo6046> but it's a more modern one so 18:11:22 <Gustavo6046> it works 18:11:24 <Gustavo6046> :D 18:16:56 *** urdh has quit IRC 18:30:13 *** urdh has joined #openttd 18:56:58 *** b_jonas has joined #openttd 19:05:17 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:11:41 <andythenorth> oh frosch come back :P 20:11:47 * andythenorth has ponies 20:23:04 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:25:13 <Eddi|zuHause> he always disappears way too early for a meaningful conversation :p 20:33:53 <andythenorth> wise 20:40:36 * andythenorth wonders if we need a format painter mode 20:40:58 <andythenorth> modifying appearance of individual trains is desirable 20:41:10 <andythenorth> modifying appearance of many trains at once is desirable 20:41:22 <andythenorth> this seems to point to some kind of painter tool, on a group basis 20:51:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 20:54:07 *** GT has joined #openttd 21:19:04 <andythenorth> Wolf01 https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=213465 21:22:11 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:41:21 <_dp_> https://i.imgur.com/tJgbrgq.png 21:47:27 <andythenorth> haxor! 21:58:24 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> Wolf01 https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=213465 <- whoa, that's huge 21:58:44 <andythenorth> 2px taller than UK Horse 21:59:06 <andythenorth> pretty rad 22:01:33 <andythenorth> also bed 22:01:35 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:15:10 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:15:55 *** GT has left #openttd 22:23:16 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:42:42 *** gelignite has quit IRC