Log for #openttd on 30th October 2020:
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09:42:44  <TrueBrain> turns out a lot of people were using URLs into the OpenTTD infrastructure that they shouldn't have
09:42:53  <TrueBrain> URLs that no longer exist, even :P
09:43:10  <TrueBrain> for example, the debian watch file was using an URL it really should never have used :P
09:43:23  <TrueBrain> sadly, retiring URLs on the web is .. difficult
09:44:51  <longtomjr> yep
09:46:01  <TrueBrain> I did a GitHub code search on old URLs ... I closed it :P
09:46:17  <longtomjr> oof
09:47:02  <LordAro> TrueBrain: how many results? :p
09:48:16  <TrueBrain> 176 hits on one URL, 58 on another .. all various of projects, like debian-watcher, auto-downloads, dockers, etc
09:48:33  <LordAro> well, they'll get the idea soon enough
09:48:54  <TrueBrain> that is the thing .. it turns out it takes months for someone to report it :P
09:49:01  <TrueBrain> (for upstream to fix it)
09:49:08  <TrueBrain> says something about the popularity, possibly
09:51:21  <longtomjr> Old links seems to be popular yep
09:51:56  <LordAro> tbf, it was never particularly clear which links you weren't "supposed" to use
09:52:52  <TrueBrain> the ones you cannot find easily :P
09:53:01  <TrueBrain> I mean .. it isn't rocket science:
09:53:05  <TrueBrain> those always had links we support
09:53:14  <TrueBrain> but somehow people find these weird links from the weirdest places
09:53:43  <TrueBrain> and sometimes I have no clue what-so-ever how they found a link
09:54:03  <TrueBrain> example, was the primary server from the mirror-network; from there, it was distributed to all the other mirror servers
09:54:12  <TrueBrain> it was only meant to be used by the other mirrors to fetch their downloads
09:54:21  <TrueBrain> but somehow .. people found that URL and used it
09:54:58  <TrueBrain> one thing I learnt from OpenTTD: you can try to hide an URL how-ever you like, people will find it, and will use it, and will complain if it no longer works :P
09:55:26  <LordAro> mm, probably just taking the URL it resolves to, or something
09:55:45  <LordAro> i imagine people will start using the direct s3 links this time round :p
09:55:55  <TrueBrain> yeah, I made sure they really cannot :)
09:55:56  <longtomjr> (is this a good link)?
09:56:05  <longtomjr> going through the cdn?
09:56:07  <TrueBrain> longtomjr: yup, anything on is
09:56:36  <longtomjr> is there a CDN link for the checksums as well?
09:56:37  <TrueBrain> LordAro: the S3 bucket is not available from any URL outside of the AWS VPC :P
09:56:44  <LordAro> :D
09:56:49  <TrueBrain> guides you in this longtomjr  :)
09:56:54  <TrueBrain> owh, it does not
09:56:55  <TrueBrain> lol
09:56:59  <TrueBrain> okay, that is silly
09:57:33  <longtomjr> If I were a machine, how do I get the checksum without scraping?
09:57:40  <TrueBrain> is the best way
09:57:53  <LordAro> beep boop
09:58:08  <TrueBrain> and shows more of these yaml files
09:58:25  <LordAro> is there a checksum for the manifest file? :p
09:58:30  <longtomjr> Ah perfect
09:58:47  <TrueBrain> LordAro: and the checksum of the checksum?
09:58:50  <TrueBrain> and of that checksum? :P
09:59:03  <LordAro> trust no one!
09:59:10  <TrueBrain> longtomjr: it is how the website knows what to use btw .. :D
09:59:29  <longtomjr> We might need a new EC2 instance to just hash everything recursively
09:59:40  <TrueBrain> but who is hashing the EC2?
09:59:50  <LordAro> EC3
09:59:51  <longtomjr> Time for Trusted Execution Environments
10:00:00  <longtomjr> Anyone have credits on Azure
10:01:06  <longtomjr> Or maybe using replicatable builds. (there is a better term for it, but builds that will have the same checksum (and contents) when built on another machine)
10:03:39  <TrueBrain> reproducible builds :)
10:04:07  <longtomjr> Close enough
10:04:17  <LordAro> debian's very keen on it these days
10:05:45  <longtomjr> How easy is it to do it. I have not really looked into it much at all, and I only rember it from a couple of years ago
10:06:14  <LordAro>
10:06:32  <LordAro> mostly it's eliminating timestamps and absolute paths from everything
10:07:02  <longtomjr> and using the same compiler and build dep versions
10:07:50  <TrueBrain> it is not as trivial as it sounds, most of the time
10:08:01  <TrueBrain> often you need an LD_PRELOAD to eliminate timestamps, basically
10:08:25  <TrueBrain> tools do start to get options to do these things for you
10:08:29  <TrueBrain> but .. it is a slow process :P
10:08:49  <andythenorth> oh this is interesting
10:09:14  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you do know this is #openttd, right? :P
10:09:21  <TrueBrain> wow, that was random as fuck ... :P
10:09:24  <longtomjr> That is really interesting
10:09:32  <andythenorth> from lordaro's link
10:10:06  <TrueBrain> I like their title .. it says absolutely nothing :D
10:10:09  <TrueBrain> just a bunch of words, basically :P
10:10:25  <longtomjr> what wiki software does the project use?
10:11:27  <TrueBrain> browses to bottom
10:11:29  <TrueBrain> looks at icon
10:11:32  <TrueBrain> yeah .. it is there :P
10:11:34  <andythenorth>
10:11:49  <longtomjr> I am blind
10:11:52  <TrueBrain> I love how people are proud enough to use PHP to make a badge for it :D
10:11:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] Gwenney opened issue #71: [af_ZA] Translator access request
10:12:06  <TrueBrain> longtomjr: in some ways, aren't we all? :)
10:12:07  <longtomjr> ^ my wife asking for translator access
10:12:22  <TrueBrain> ah, finally a reason to deny one :P
10:12:26  <TrueBrain> <3 :)
10:12:26  <longtomjr> plan get her into train game is going along quite nicely
10:12:48  * andythenorth tries to envisage a world where my wife applies for translator access
10:12:48  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] TrueBrain commented on issue #71: [af_ZA] Translator access request
10:13:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] TrueBrain commented on issue #70: [pt_PT] Translator access request
10:13:36  <longtomjr> She is currently doing her Honors in Translation and Editing, so thought it would be fun for her to do more work. :P
10:13:47  <TrueBrain> and you are right about that! :P
10:15:26  <longtomjr>
10:15:40  <longtomjr> bot has wrong link
10:17:44  <TrueBrain> no it doesn't?
10:18:07  <longtomjr> Getting a 404 I think
10:18:40  <TrueBrain> because you are not part of that team :)
10:18:45  <TrueBrain> and she needs to accept the org-invite first
10:18:54  <TrueBrain> (as mentioned in the bot's reply too :D)
10:19:13  <TrueBrain> "If you are not a member of OpenTTD yet, you will receive an invitation shortly (or click here).
10:19:13  <TrueBrain> You will have to accept this invitation before your membership is updated."
10:19:26  <longtomjr> It is because she did not accept the invite before yes, I thought she did already.
10:19:28  <longtomjr> Sorry
10:19:38  <TrueBrain> :D
10:19:42  <TrueBrain> no worries :P
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10:19:50  <TrueBrain> 8 people failed to accept the invitation ..
10:19:56  <TrueBrain> (out of the 50 or so)
10:20:00  <TrueBrain> it is not a good track-record ...
10:20:08  <TrueBrain> but we have no idea how to make it more obvious
10:21:21  <LordAro> bold text
10:21:24  <longtomjr> what is the timeout?
10:21:50  <TrueBrain> 7 days I think?
10:22:00  <TrueBrain> LordAro: but they ALSO get an email from GitHub inviting them
10:22:15  <TrueBrain> anyway, more important, wiki
10:22:21  <TrueBrain> <- what do we think about the navigation bar like this?
10:22:23  <TrueBrain> (breadcrumbs)
10:22:40  <TrueBrain> or, funnier:
10:23:24  <longtomjr> I think having an icon or something inbetween the crumbs will help, currently it looks a bitl ike tabs
10:23:42  <TrueBrain> that is a nice idea
10:24:12  <TrueBrain> something like this or so (but prettier, ofc)
10:24:13  <longtomjr> Maybe the first crumb can also be ommitted, since the title links to that page as well
10:24:28  <longtomjr> Yep, something like that
10:24:48  <TrueBrain> the first one lets you easily see how to get back
10:24:53  <longtomjr> Maybe having the root there makes sense yep
10:24:55  <TrueBrain> that sounds like one of the more useful ones to have? :)
10:25:16  <TrueBrain> okay, so how am I going to make this pretty .. hmm ..
10:25:25  <longtomjr> what is the deepest nested page that you have?
10:26:03  <TrueBrain> the one I linked, I think
10:26:16  <longtomjr> Ah ok, then that should be fine.
10:26:54  <longtomjr> You can use pseudo-elements to do the crumbs
10:28:12  <TrueBrain> yeah, I just need to find a nice UTF-8 char for it
10:28:23  <longtomjr> or just use /
10:28:28  <longtomjr> like bootstrap
10:28:53  <longtomjr> and github
10:30:10  <TrueBrain> that works
10:30:14  <TrueBrain> #navigation-bar li.crumb:not(:first-child)::after
10:30:18  <TrueBrain> I do love CSS selectors :)
10:31:01  <TrueBrain> hmm, I like ❱ more :)
10:34:11  <TrueBrain> well, this will have to do for now :)
10:36:07  <TrueBrain> right, now something to do folder listing .. hmm
11:16:47  <TrueBrain>
11:16:52  <TrueBrain> guess that is sufficient for now
11:17:42  <longtomjr> Looks good :)
11:17:53  <TrueBrain> now only where to link it from :D
11:18:05  <longtomjr> Still needs the breadcrumbs
11:18:26  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I guess ..
11:18:56  <longtomjr> Also, the breadcrumb links does not link to the folders yet
11:20:20  <TrueBrain> they are never going to
11:20:28  <TrueBrain> I do however need a place to link to folders, not sure where ..
11:21:56  <TrueBrain> the breadcrumbs normally point to an "index.html" (in this case, "Main Page"). That is most likely what a user wants to visit anyway
11:22:05  <TrueBrain> visiting the folder structure is a more rare event
11:34:26  <TrueBrain> okay, I made something at the bottom .. hopefully that is enough :)
11:47:59  <longtomjr> True, is there a history of translations pre-eints?
11:48:18  <longtomjr> or at least the current eints history
11:48:46  <longtomjr> Some of the af_ZA translations look a lot like machine translations
11:51:32  <TrueBrain>
11:52:17  <andythenorth> hmm
11:52:25  <andythenorth> does Horse need GT3 locomotive?
11:52:31  * andythenorth awaits crowd answers
11:52:32  <longtomjr> ok, will have a look, sorry for bothering with this :)
11:52:46  <TrueBrain> longtomjr: or if that makes it easier to read :P
11:52:59  <TrueBrain> except for some bugs, it should most of the time mention who made the change
11:53:09  <longtomjr> Yep, blame is probably the easiest
11:53:27  <TrueBrain> longtomjr: and you are not bothering me with these kind of questions; they are always welcome to be asked :)
11:53:31  <longtomjr> What is WebTranslator v3.0?
11:53:37  <TrueBrain> pre-eints :P
11:53:44  <TrueBrain> you will find v2 if you go back even further
11:53:47  <TrueBrain> and ... v1 before that :P
11:53:56  <longtomjr> Is there history of that somewhere?
11:53:57  <LordAro> looks like it's been a long time since there were any meaningful Afrikaans translations
11:54:15  <TrueBrain> longtomjr: not written down; also not really interesting for most people
11:54:17  <TrueBrain> why you ask?
11:55:10  <longtomjr> My wife does not want to just change things around without knowing the context, but there are some translations that is very literal and does not sound or read like native Afrikaans
11:55:49  <TrueBrain> the context is ingame, tbh
11:55:57  <TrueBrain> what past people did, is not that relevant
11:56:09  <TrueBrain> what we want to avoid, is one translator doing A, and the other doing B, ofc
11:56:15  <TrueBrain> we had that with some .. they kept changing it back and forth
11:56:21  <longtomjr> I meant more the history. Ok so it is fine if she updates some of the more literal translations.
11:56:25  <TrueBrain> but given Afrikaans hasn't had a change in ... YEARS
11:56:29  <TrueBrain> that shouldn't be an issue here :)
11:56:52  <longtomjr> Ok, but with the new teams setup when a new Afrikaans translator signs up they should be able to communicate.
11:56:57  <TrueBrain> what we HOPE that happens, when there are more than 1 translator, they start on GitHub a discussion in their language section, to set some ground rules
11:57:00  <longtomjr> Thanks a lot :)
11:57:13  <longtomjr> Yep, will pass that on to her.
11:57:17  <TrueBrain> :D Awesome, tnx :)
11:57:21  <LordAro> of course, none of that has happened yet
11:57:45  <TrueBrain> and she is the only one for af_ZA :)
11:58:00  <FLHerne> andythenorth: tbh, I've never really used the UKRS2+ one
11:58:09  <TrueBrain> right, lunch, I really should do lunch ..
11:58:35  <longtomjr> Food is important
11:58:38  <LordAro> omg, there is a discussion!
11:58:41  <LordAro> it has been used!
11:58:43  <FLHerne> More than one is unrealistic, and just one is pointless micromanagement
11:59:48  <TrueBrain> LordAro: and we didn't even get email about it! :P
12:00:09  <TrueBrain> LordAro: honestly, I am as shocked as you are that it is used :D
12:00:18  <LordAro> i get so many github emails i probably wouldn't have noticed it
12:00:29  <TrueBrain> my settings are pretty good these days
12:07:21  <longtomjr> When did you move over to the github integrated eints?
12:11:30  <TrueBrain> Few months ago .. why?
12:13:36  <longtomjr> There is some recent afr translations that were in this year still, so just wondered.
12:19:13  <andythenorth> FLHerne correct answer :)
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13:18:11  <TrueBrain> <- you can now browse all languages :D \o/
13:20:16  <andythenorth> :)
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13:33:22  <TrueBrain> and even this works now \o/
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14:13:06  <TrueBrain> for frosch123: <- this is a valid YAML file
14:13:45  <TrueBrain> it reports all errors found during rendering of all pages
14:14:09  <TrueBrain> 3505 pages report something :)
14:17:37  <LordAro> out of how many pages?
14:17:57  <TrueBrain> 5871
14:18:05  <LordAro> very good
14:18:15  <TrueBrain> so over 50% contains some form of error
14:18:22  <TrueBrain> most of the cases it links to a page that doesn't exist
14:19:54  <longtomjr> Is redlinks an error?
14:19:57  <TrueBrain> and, 0 exceptions happened during rendering \o/
14:20:03  <TrueBrain> yes
14:20:14  <longtomjr> Why?
14:20:46  <TrueBrain> because someone should fix that
14:21:19  <longtomjr> Fair enough, Is there only 1 severity for the errors?
14:21:43  <TrueBrain> errors is a severity, isn't it? :D
14:21:43  <LordAro> mm, definitely a low severity error if any
14:22:02  <TrueBrain> everything is "low" if you look at it like that
14:22:04  <TrueBrain> as "it works" :P
14:22:16  <TrueBrain> label it how-ever you like; it requires attention :)
14:22:58  <longtomjr> I am just thinking if there is a dashboard that shows a list of pages that need attention, it might be nice to have redlinks grouped and seperate from other issues
14:23:20  <TrueBrain> problem is that a lot of those broken links are not intentional
14:24:22  <longtomjr> Hmmm
14:24:23  <TrueBrain> but okay, the list above is for frosch123 specifically, as many broken links are due to the migration, and requires attention on another level
14:25:05  <TrueBrain> but take for example this page:
14:25:05  <TrueBrain>
14:25:08  <longtomjr> Ah some of them are duplicates, as in if an error gets fixed with the migration, the several of the reported issues will be fixed?
14:25:12  <TrueBrain> it is really bad those links are broken
14:25:36  <TrueBrain> "duplicates"? No, there are no duplicated errors
14:25:46  <TrueBrain> an error can happen in a template, and by fixing 1 many pages can be fixed
14:25:50  <TrueBrain> that can be considered "duplicate", but no
14:25:51  <longtomjr> as in it refers to one bug
14:26:20  <longtomjr> Those are all external links
14:26:30  <longtomjr> or am I missing something?
14:26:38  <TrueBrain> I do not validate external links, so no :)
14:26:41  <TrueBrain> these are all innerlinks :)
14:26:57  <TrueBrain> but again, that gist is not for you guys; frosch will know what to do with it :)
14:27:17  <longtomjr> sorry, were just curious
14:27:35  <TrueBrain> it is okay; it just brings us in a weird route :P
14:27:55  <TrueBrain> hmm .. that figure-of-speech does not translate well to English :D
14:28:09  <TrueBrain> well, to give an example of where the migration fails:
14:28:10  <TrueBrain>
14:28:28  <TrueBrain> the links on top are migrated wrong; this can either be that it cannot be automated, or that there is a boo-boo
14:29:10  <TrueBrain> in this case it is because {{en/Release|prev=OpenTTD 0.5.0|next=OpenTTD 0.5.2|date=2007-04-20}} doesn't have its "prev" and "next" fixed
14:29:16  <TrueBrain> which is difficult to do for any script, to know it should fix those
14:32:10  <TrueBrain> hmm .. this is an interesting case .. I wonder what frosch123 wants here ... should "[[abc]]" when you are in "en/Archive/Bla/def" point to "abc" or to "en/Archive/bla/abc"
14:32:35  <TrueBrain> in other words, should it always be absolute, or relative, or try-absolute-first-relative-after?
14:35:37  <TrueBrain> <- also a fine example of broken links that really .. shouldn't be links?
14:35:58  <TrueBrain> either do not link it, or who-ever started this should have finished it :P
14:36:09  <longtomjr> yep
14:36:32  <TrueBrain> the only thing this causes, that someone makes a page somewhere else, totally unrelated, with the same name, and they now link ..
14:36:54  <TrueBrain> so yeah, when talking about "severity" of errors ... I rather say: this is not right and requires some form of attention :)
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14:37:21  <longtomjr> Yep, I agree with you there for sure
14:37:37  <TrueBrain> so possibly I should rename "errors" with something else
14:37:48  <TrueBrain> "messages during rendering" :P
14:39:33  <longtomjr> even the links on that page will need some cleanup
14:39:58  <TrueBrain> I would expect so ;) As my given scenario most likely became reality :D
14:40:00  <longtomjr> Maybe linked with the settings page
14:40:15  <TrueBrain> but okay ... migrate first, fix after :D
14:40:31  <TrueBrain> many many pages need attention ..
14:40:39  <TrueBrain> for example, there is a template that renders an image with a caption
14:40:45  <longtomjr> Accounts cannot be created for the wiki atm right?
14:40:46  <TrueBrain> like ... yes ... wikitext has that already
14:40:49  <TrueBrain> no
14:41:39  <TrueBrain> like ... I doubt even I can provision new accounts atm within a reasonable amount of time :P
14:42:25  <longtomjr> Goodness, Is the source mass editable on the migration wiki (without creating conflict nightmares?). I can maybe start a PR to clean some of this up;.
14:43:27  <TrueBrain> with truewiki (still love the name :P) you can mass-edit via GitHub, yes
14:43:35  <longtomjr> Anyways, pinned it for the future.
14:43:42  <TrueBrain> but don't expect it to be online before the end of November :)
14:44:19  <TrueBrain> hopefully editing somewhat works by the end of this weekend, so we can start testing it .. and we will find tons of edge-cases and bugs
14:44:40  <TrueBrain> which normally takes anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks to iron out :)
14:45:39  <longtomjr> Would be happy to help test it if you need more hands.
14:46:16  <TrueBrain> we tend to try drag people that idle here in our "now test this shit" phase, so yeah, please :)
14:46:30  <TrueBrain> you can already test by clicking around  and report anything odd
14:46:37  <TrueBrain> (except for the known stuff, like lots of broken links and images)
14:46:58  <TrueBrain> anyway, I am off for a few hours; talk to you guys tonight!
14:47:04  <longtomjr> Cheers!
15:01:53  <longtomjr> What is the difference between the Archive pages and other pages?
15:04:25  <longtomjr>
15:04:30  <longtomjr> some things I picked up
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16:43:57  <FLHerne> Hm, grfcodec doesn't compile :p
16:44:37  <andythenorth> oofies
16:45:03  <FLHerne> Oh, someone else already found that
16:46:04  <FLHerne> Why is grfcodec code formatted so horribly?
16:46:16  <FLHerne> Hadn't they invented spaces back then?
16:48:15  <andythenorth> hmm
16:48:22  <andythenorth> it has taken me a week to draw 1 ship
16:48:31  <andythenorth> and I have about 60 planned
16:48:41  <andythenorth> this is not desirable
16:51:49  <frosch123> FLHerne: you are looking at nforenum
16:53:48  <frosch123> wait, dalestan is now gone for > 10 years?
16:55:05  <frosch123> FLHerne: <- that's how it looked in the old days
17:02:29  <LordAro> oof
17:03:42  <LordAro> FLHerne: grfcodec compiles now :p
17:04:01  <FLHerne> Ok, thanks
17:04:04  <LordAro> i wanted to set up all the relevant dorpsgek & github actions gubbins, but never got around to it
17:04:09  <FLHerne> There are some other compile warnings with gcc 10
17:04:17  <LordAro> this does not surprise me
17:04:19  <FLHerne> I was going to try and fix them, but then I saw the code :p
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17:04:23  <LordAro> ^^
17:05:06  <FLHerne> I swear half of inlines.h is reimplementing bits of the stdlib for no reason
17:05:55  <frosch123> you are probably better off reimlpementing it in python :)
17:06:24  <LordAro> FLHerne: oh god, don't spend time looking at it
17:06:29  <LordAro> you'll make your eyes bleed
17:07:24  <FLHerne> frosch123: I got into this because I want to make NML tests compile the resulting NFO using grfcodec
17:07:36  <FLHerne> To check that it produces the same as direct grf output
17:08:49  <frosch123> for what purpose?
17:09:05  <frosch123> there are some parts if grf, that can be reordered without changing the meaning
17:09:16  <frosch123> pseudo sprites are obviously the same, or everything would break
17:09:20  <FLHerne> Curiosity?
17:09:27  <frosch123> realsprites are the same because they literally use the same code for compression
17:09:36  <frosch123> FLHerne: okay, have fun :)
17:17:03  <FLHerne> frosch123: Is there a benefit from not using Unicode in grf strings?
17:17:20  <FLHerne> nmlc goes to considerable effort to use only ascii when it can
17:17:22  <frosch123> smaller file size :p
17:17:40  <frosch123> otherwise i am not aware of any difference
17:17:48  <frosch123> ottd transcodes them to the same on loading the grf
17:17:54  <FLHerne> How is unicode encoded in the grf?
17:18:08  <frosch123> there is a starting þ
17:18:20  <FLHerne> UTF-8, or some fixed-width encoding?
17:18:21  <frosch123> the control characters are mapped into the private area
17:18:24  <frosch123> utf-8
17:18:46  <FLHerne> Then...the file size should be virtually identical anyway?
17:19:10  <FLHerne> Except two bytes per string for the thorn...
17:19:15  <frosch123> <- ofc there is the usual ttdp mess: invalid utf sequences are treated as latin1 :p
17:19:31  <LordAro> not a bad fallback, tbh
17:19:34  <FLHerne> Yeah, I was reading that last night
17:19:49  <frosch123> it's proably to simplify using the control codes
17:19:57  <frosch123> so grf people do not need to learn the private range
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17:26:14  <frosch123> FLHerne: maybe action8 does not support utf-8
17:26:44  <FLHerne> frosch123: I think the "parse broken stuff as old bytes" thing covers that anyway?
17:27:05  <frosch123> ah no, it does as well
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17:37:45  <frosch123> so, factorio is copying the ttd title screen :p even the orange game title
17:42:37  <LordAro> heh
17:43:07  <frosch123> i guess V got homesick
17:44:00  <longtomjr> (he is still watching)
17:44:04  <longtomjr> shhh
17:46:03  <Eddi|zuHause> or it's like The Big Bang Theory, who remade advertisment pictures like from "Dexters Laboratory"
17:49:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Polynomial-C opened pull request #8333: Fix build with icu-68.1
17:50:17  <LordAro> ha
17:51:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master
17:51:58  <DorpsGek_III>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
17:57:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Polynomial-C updated pull request #8333: Fix build with icu-68.1
18:05:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8333: Fix build with icu-68.1
18:08:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8333: Fix build with icu-68.1
18:08:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8331: Fix: [NoAI] don't notify caught exceptions
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18:44:04  <frosch123> TrueBrain: <- click on the first bread crumb
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19:09:54  <frosch123> i am not sure whether that link to the main page makes sense at that point. maybe there could be a "/" folder that lists P,age Category, File, Template instead
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20:40:34  <TrueBrain> frosch123: nice catch :D I changed the first entry in breadcrumbs a bit too often :P
20:41:00  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I wanted the most left button to always bring you back to the main page, to give some consistency
20:41:41  <TrueBrain> but I can add another page in between there that allows browsing Files etc
20:41:53  <TrueBrain> just the current structure in Files is not ideal for that ..
20:42:13  <TrueBrain> but I like the idea of at least being able to browse Templates and Categories
20:42:39  <TrueBrain> hihi, and I should hide the View Source / History buttons :P
20:42:58  <TrueBrain> but otherwise, this a bit what you had in mind?
20:44:30  <frosch123> yep :)
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21:13:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] a-gierczak opened issue #8334: HTTP endpoint for online content
21:14:49  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I tweaked some things about /Folder/. It is still not really how I would like it, especially code-wise .. lot of exceptions etc, never a good sign. But I think this works sufficiently for v1. Let me know what you think!
21:15:00  <TrueBrain> mostly, changed :)
21:15:07  <TrueBrain> (and all URLs below :P)
21:17:32  <frosch123> stupid license :)
21:18:22  <frosch123> oh... now i see what you meant with the problems about File:
21:19:45  <frosch123> btw. i think my next export will put more folders into Template and File
21:20:15  <frosch123> i'll probably give those TOC templates a consistent name and put them into directories matching the pages they contain
21:20:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8334: HTTP endpoint for online content
21:20:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8334: HTTP endpoint for online content
21:20:56  <TrueBrain> frosch123: that would be lovely :)
21:21:03  <TrueBrain> and File is empty because I filter for ".mediawiki" :D
21:21:13  <frosch123> yes, thought so :)
21:21:25  <TrueBrain> I really have to rethink how truewiki is build up tbh
21:21:25  <frosch123> should i rename LICENSE to .md, so it does not show up?
21:21:41  <TrueBrain> it is now a bit of a mess with endless exceptions for the namespaces ..
21:21:55  <TrueBrain> hmm .. I am fine with the LICENSE to work; I was more thinking of fixing it so it does work :P
21:22:08  <frosch123> well, if we have to start over, we can name it OpinionatedWiki :)
21:22:15  <TrueBrain> :D
21:22:34  <TrueBrain> I now understand more how I can logically put namespaces in there honestly
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21:22:48  <TrueBrain> but I first want to build the edit part tbh
21:22:57  <TrueBrain> otherwise it will never get to a "workable" state :D
21:24:01  <TrueBrain> regarding, what do you think, should we allow relative pages too?
21:24:16  <TrueBrain> or should we just make them absolute paths?
21:24:39  <TrueBrain> (a bit like , but without the broken links)
21:25:13  <frosch123> the migration will make everything absolute paths
21:25:34  <frosch123> if it doesn't work, i missed something :)
21:25:40  <TrueBrain> what is nice about allowing relative, is that if we move folders, everything keeps working
21:25:51  <TrueBrain> but I am also absolutely fine fixing pages like that to use absolute
21:26:09  <TrueBrain> being explicit is useful in most cases, honestly
21:26:12  <frosch123> but how relative should they be? do you also want to support ".." ?
21:26:19  <TrueBrain> meh, fuck no
21:26:25  <TrueBrain> "current folder" or bust :P
21:26:36  <TrueBrain> okay, well, in that case we have some manual fixing to do after migration :)
21:26:41  <frosch123> so you want detect absolute paths by checking whether they start with a language code?
21:26:55  <frosch123> and forbid people to create pages/templates named like a language code?
21:26:57  <TrueBrain> I was more thinking: test absolute first (if file exists), otherwise try relative
21:27:13  <frosch123> that does not work if the page does not yet exist
21:27:15  <TrueBrain> but okay okay, too many edge-cases, fiinnnneeeeeeeee
21:27:33  <frosch123> when i write a wiki page, i always add the links i want. later i click on the dead links to add the pages
21:28:11  <frosch123> i consider that easier than creating a page in a wild, and then figuring out how to link to it :)
21:28:12  <TrueBrain> how do you plan on doing the migration: just migrate with broken pages like this, and we fix them after manually?
21:28:17  <TrueBrain> or do you want to fix them during migration already?
21:28:51  <frosch123> in this specific case, i have code to convert those prev/next links
21:28:58  <frosch123> it just does not work apparently :)
21:29:11  <TrueBrain> the /Fr template is a bit weird in that it adds /Fr :P
21:29:30  <TrueBrain> as in:
21:29:38  <frosch123> yes, those need manual fixing :)
21:30:06  <frosch123> the templates have like 4 methods to link to pages/images given by parameters
21:30:12  <TrueBrain> k; so you just do as much as you can, and we go through it after fixing the rest; sounds like a plan :)
21:30:14  <frosch123> i consider unifying them a bit
21:30:24  <TrueBrain> ppllleeeeaaasssseeeee do :)
21:30:36  <TrueBrain> I dislike some have "Image:" implied, others do not, for example
21:30:39  <TrueBrain> drives me mad :P
21:31:27  <frosch123> for example: {{#if:{{{image|}}}|[[File:{{{image}}}]]|[[File:default.png]]}} is really complicated
21:31:42  <frosch123> compared to [[File:{{image|default.png}}]]
21:33:22  <TrueBrain> or: [[{{{image|File:default.png}}}]]
21:33:27  <frosch123> and then there is one template that composed a image name from two or three parameters
21:33:31  <TrueBrain> depends a bit if you want "File" to be out or inside the template :D
21:33:44  <TrueBrain> yeah, people tried insane stuff ....
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21:36:12  <frosch123> oh, lol, about the relative paths.... i just remembered there were some legacy build tools at my previous company that used "./" to distingiush relative from absolute paths
21:36:24  <TrueBrain> I know these kind of tools :)
21:36:32  <TrueBrain> haven't seen them in YEARS
21:36:47  <frosch123> really? i thought that was a unique idea. they kind of told people, relative paths have to start with ./
21:37:06  <frosch123> maybe there is some historic reason then, and it was needed in the 70s
21:37:31  <TrueBrain> well, starting apps from local folder has to be done with ./
21:37:33  <frosch123> i used to delete #ifdef ULTRIX :)
21:37:35  <TrueBrain> so it is not that an unique idea ;)
21:38:20  <TrueBrain> right, pushed the latest changed to the repos .. if you like, you can run --validate-all yourself now :)
21:38:34  <TrueBrain> tomorrow I will add GitHub login, and hopefully some basic edit functionality
21:38:41  <TrueBrain> just so we can get a bit of feeling for that part
21:38:48  <frosch123> :)
21:39:06  <TrueBrain> I always assume that v1 needs to be redone because you learn during v1 what you want and don't want :)
21:39:17  <TrueBrain> so I love touching all parts a bit, to get a feel for it
21:39:26  <TrueBrain> that sounds REALLY wrong
21:39:27  <TrueBrain> lol
21:39:29  <TrueBrain> what-ever :P
21:39:56  <TrueBrain> I am not sure yet how we want to do editing tbh .. I think the URL will be something like /edit/ as prefix
21:40:06  <TrueBrain> the ?action=edit stuff is bad for caching
21:40:20  <frosch123> i kind of assumed it would be /edit/... :)
21:40:26  <TrueBrain> :D
21:40:41  <frosch123> gollum did the same. everything that was not a page started with /gollum/
21:40:54  <frosch123> but since we have language codes at the top, we have a lot of freedom
21:41:00  <TrueBrain> yeah ..
21:41:10  <TrueBrain> I am still not sure making "Page" the implicit namespace for the URLs
21:41:20  <TrueBrain> but so far it seems fine
21:42:08  <TrueBrain> +about
21:42:11  <TrueBrain> what-ever, it is late
21:42:14  <TrueBrain> typing hard
21:42:30  <TrueBrain> btw, I am going to need a lookup table for en -> English, etc
21:42:34  <TrueBrain> to make some pages more pretty :)
21:42:47  <TrueBrain> but, bikeshedding
21:43:35  <TrueBrain> for now: zzzzzzzz
21:43:59  <frosch123> bye
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