Log for #openttd on 2nd November 2020:
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09:47:36  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain approved pull request #76: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:47:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain merged pull request #76: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:48:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain approved pull request #14: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:48:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain merged pull request #14: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:49:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain approved pull request #36: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:49:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #36: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:49:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain approved pull request #38: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:49:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain merged pull request #38: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:49:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain approved pull request #21: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:50:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain merged pull request #21: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:50:14  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain approved pull request #15: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:50:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain merged pull request #15: Scheduled monthly dependency update for November
09:55:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] pyup-bot opened issue #30: Initial Update
09:55:22  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] pyup-bot opened pull request #31: Config file for
09:57:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Config file for
09:58:07  <TrueBrain> commit checker is strict :P
09:58:07  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain updated pull request #31: Config file for
09:59:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain approved pull request #31: Config file for
09:59:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain merged pull request #31: Config file for
09:59:56  * andythenorth has drawn 50% of the train
09:59:57  <andythenorth> it would be 100%, but something derailed it
10:01:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain closed issue #30: Initial Update
10:01:26  <TrueBrain> you know that 100% is a lie :P
10:02:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.6
10:02:39  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.1.1
10:02:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.7
10:03:15  <TrueBrain> I need a dashboard to see how all our repositories that are on AWS are doing honestly ..
10:03:28  <TrueBrain> so easy to lose count
10:05:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] pyup-bot opened issue #32: Initial Update
10:05:01  <TrueBrain> grr @ pyup .. I want you to update NOW
10:05:01  <TrueBrain> not make silly issues
10:05:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/eints] TrueBrain closed issue #32: Initial Update
10:05:46  <TrueBrain> I don't see how I can overrule the schedule
10:05:48  <TrueBrain> which is a bit silly
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10:27:20  <TrueBrain> <- right, that should help a bit
10:28:11  <TrueBrain> no clue why it says NML Release is failing .. even GitHub Actions badge says that
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10:28:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.5
10:28:41  <LordAro> nice
10:28:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.0.14
10:29:19  <LordAro> something to do with the master branch failing release for some reason?
10:29:19  <TrueBrain> I wish "commits" would change color between 0 and any number
10:29:36  <LordAro> maybe i should delete those 3 failing workflow runs?
10:29:50  <TrueBrain> try it :)
10:30:15  <LordAro> \o/
10:30:35  <TrueBrain> nice :)
10:30:35  <LordAro> you should add OTTD to that list too
10:30:55  <LordAro> :p
10:30:55  <TrueBrain> yeah ... as soon as you finished the port from Azure DevOps :)
10:31:02  <LordAro> ah damn
10:31:07  <LordAro> :p
10:31:39  <TrueBrain> okay, added it ..
10:31:48  <TrueBrain> 291 commits since last release .. nice number :)
10:36:43  <TrueBrain> well, at least now I can tell I did process all the pyup PRs :P
10:37:17  <LordAro> :)
10:48:16  <TrueBrain> "I use SHA512 with a fixed salt" <- I read this on a random page on the internet .. it always makes me a bit sad :P It is a good step, but it is not sufficient. It still surprises me how little education is done why we salt and what it protects against .. the user is not the blame here btw, just the education is ..
10:48:47  <TrueBrain> I had colleagues telling customers the salt should be private and stored away carefully .. that is a lie :P
10:49:47  <TrueBrain> and the most common one: "but the salt is stored in the code, so if my database is breached, they do not have it" ... if your database is breached, safe to assume so is your codebase
11:02:01  <longtomjr> We salt for flavor
11:14:10  <TrueBrain> hmm .. salt ....
11:15:59  * LordAro shakes TrueBrain
11:16:16  <TrueBrain> wait, what part of me are you shaking? :P
11:16:28  <TrueBrain> be .. specific please :P
11:16:30  <LordAro> oh no
11:16:57  <TrueBrain> :D
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13:39:23  <andythenorth> GarryG has made mariokart
13:39:28  <andythenorth> never ceases to amuse or surprise me
13:39:57  <andythenorth> bloke with a brain injury gets a lot done
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14:30:31  <andythenorth> anyone care to play 'git'?
14:30:50  <andythenorth> I need to know if the current rev has a tag annotation
14:31:30  <Eddi|zuHause> other than HEAD? no
14:32:19  <andythenorth> but if I've annotated, e.g. 1.4.1
14:32:38  * andythenorth reading how tags work
14:38:07  <andythenorth> "git name-rev --name-only --tags HEAD" seems to work, but SO says it doesn't
14:38:21  <Eddi|zuHause> initial googling suggests "git describe --tags --exact-match"
14:38:58  <andythenorth> yeah that seems to return a tag name if matched, otherwise fatal error
14:40:14  <andythenorth> "fatal: no tag exactly matches 'bd9c349e73fb74a93ef96486936eb9f8f13a5eca'"
14:40:24  * andythenorth wonders if it's safe to try and string match "fatal" there :P
14:40:33  <andythenorth> will I name a tag "fatal" ever?
14:40:34  <Eddi|zuHause> just check return value
14:40:47  <Eddi|zuHause> exit code
14:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> if exit code is not 0, it was an error
14:40:57  <andythenorth> oh I see
14:41:03  <andythenorth> more googling
14:41:13  <andythenorth> ok thanks :)
14:42:50  <Eddi|zuHause> the shell of your choice should have easy functions for that
14:43:44  <andythenorth> python :P
14:59:52  <andythenorth> this doesn't quite work
15:00:20  <andythenorth> it seems to perform, but it prints 'fatal: no tag exactly matches '5cdbde0b97f4260f777b0573ba19394e0c3fddd7' to stdout if no tag is found
15:00:22  <Eddi|zuHause> can we have this in openttd?
15:00:28  <andythenorth> which I don't want to see in every compile
15:00:44  * andythenorth bets £10 Eddi|zuHause posted the whale metro?
15:00:54  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
15:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm fairly sure it actually gets printed to stderr
15:02:30  <andythenorth> hmm
15:02:34  * andythenorth way out of depth
15:02:40  <andythenorth> this is all cargo-culted
15:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd try "stderr=subprocess.DEVNULL"
15:05:58  <andythenorth> seems to work
15:06:54  <andythenorth> "that will never go wrong"
15:07:06  <andythenorth> shell scripting is an interesting world
15:07:12  <andythenorth> but I don't belong in it
15:07:56  <FLHerne> andythenorth: NML does this
15:08:30  <andythenorth> so it does
15:08:31  <FLHerne> Well, that bit tells you the last tag
15:08:53  <andythenorth> I could possibly adopt that script
15:09:03  <FLHerne> I think the `release = describe[1] == "0"` is the bit that tells you there are no changes *since* the last tag
15:09:45  <Eddi|zuHause> that split seems slightly more wonky than --exact-match
15:10:15  <andythenorth> my temptation is always to believe the longer more complicated code is more correct
15:10:26  <andythenorth> that's probably never a fallacy ever
15:10:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that is usually wrong :p
15:11:59  <andythenorth> so with this, I can conditionally insert an action 14 link to release docs
15:12:06  <andythenorth> or to [something else]
15:12:17  <andythenorth> hurrah
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18:08:00  <andythenorth> well
18:09:14  * andythenorth wonders if newgrfs run in the same address space
18:09:47  * andythenorth stops wondering that
18:09:57  * andythenorth wonders what is for lunch
18:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of address space?
18:20:58  <FLHerne> They have separate sets of parameters, act2 vars, etc, so 'not really'?
18:22:03  * andythenorth wondered if combining GPL grfs with non-GPL grfs was a GPL violation
18:22:15  <andythenorth> then I remembered not to slice my own fingers off
18:23:44  <FLHerne> Definitely not
18:25:37  <FLHerne> I think you could conceivably argue that 'extension' grfs like UKRS2+ were derivative works of the original even without sharing code
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18:26:16  <FLHerne> Because they don't work without the base grf, and poke around with its settings
18:27:04  <FLHerne> But that would be pretty tenuous, and they're always under the same license anyway
18:36:30  <andythenorth> also they're not GPL :)
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18:40:41  <FLHerne> Well, there could be a hypothetical FIRS extension
18:40:50  <FLHerne> To re-add Extreme mode :D
18:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: real copyright violations are already properly complicated, don't need to make it worse by adding hypothetical ones
18:45:24  <andythenorth> yes
18:50:29  <FLHerne> If you made a grf that exploited a buffer overflow to perform arbitrary code execution within OTTD, and it patched in a daylength feature and timetables that work, while also having every British locomotive no matter how obscure, but wasn't GPL-licensed
18:50:38  <FLHerne> ...would that be a violation?
18:51:05  <Wolf01> new feature?
18:51:41  <FLHerne> Wolf01: I think you're the third one today
18:52:01  <FLHerne> You gotta be faster!
18:53:10  <Wolf01> Maybe if I didn't have to work
18:53:57  <andythenorth> FLHerne depends if you made source available :P
18:59:46  <frosch123> FLHerne: if you make it agpl, maybe all savegames and scenarios will also be agpl
19:03:56  <TrueBrain> Wolf01: they made the art look better at least
19:05:22  <TrueBrain> people have been voting to keep it like this, as it looks like a movie-scene
19:06:50  <frosch123> ah, it is art... i was wondering what it was :)
19:07:21  <TrueBrain> tails of a walrus
19:07:53  <frosch123> well, a subway above water is art in itself, or maybe it is just dutch :p
19:09:40  <TrueBrain> building anything NOT above water is tricky in The Netherlands :P
19:10:22  <frosch123> i guess the subway is on sea level
19:21:53  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] PatrikSamuelTauchim opened issue #75: [cs_CZ] Translator access request
19:29:00  <Wolf01> Mmmh, tanks time
19:29:06  <andythenorth> I did some tanks
19:29:19  <Wolf01> I repair the tanks you smash
19:29:39  <andythenorth> my WR slowly grinds up
19:29:49  <andythenorth> I'm not really good
19:33:04  <andythenorth> lol #2 on the server in this tank though
19:33:43  <andythenorth> the #1 player is waaaaay better than me
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19:39:37  <TrueBrain> that website hurts my eyes
19:39:38  <TrueBrain> just saying
19:40:28  <andythenorth> you get used to it
19:40:42  <TrueBrain> that makes it sound like I have to :P
19:40:45  <andythenorth> lot of numbers
19:41:52  <frosch123> i think the concerns were about the colors :)
19:42:04  <TrueBrain> they were; but he only sees numbers, so that is fine :)
19:47:28  <andythenorth> I don't much like the ads, or the cookie warning
19:47:34  <andythenorth> I should probably get plugins to solve that
19:47:44  <TrueBrain> I went like: "what ads?"
19:48:09  <TrueBrain> guess PiHole is dealing with that just fine :P
19:48:17  <TrueBrain> or Ghostery
19:51:08  <frosch123> uBlock shows this number on its icon, how many requests it blocked
19:56:13  <andythenorth> also are tank game stats off-topic for this channel?
19:56:48  <frosch123> we assumed you were comparing your win rates with your ship drawing progress
19:57:21  <andythenorth> lol my editor applies correct syntax highlighting to "@preoperty"
19:57:24  <andythenorth> silly editor
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20:01:38  <andythenorth> hmm can't use property in the root level of a module
20:01:42  <andythenorth> has to be in a class
20:01:43  <andythenorth> nvm
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20:17:59  <FLHerne> andythenorth: @preoperty is valid syntax, you can define custom decorators
20:18:37  <andythenorth> silly andythenorth
20:18:42  <FLHerne> If your editor was really good, it would complain about 'preoperty' being an undefined variable
20:18:49  <FLHerne> I think I made KDevelop do that a while ago
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20:22:21  <andythenorth> hmmm Horse release, or refactor 3 other grfs for consistency in compile methods?
20:23:28  <andythenorth> refactor
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20:56:30  <andythenorth> hmm
20:56:43  <andythenorth> "Download Zip" is now a bit of a lie
20:56:48  <andythenorth> bundles links are dead
20:57:35  <andythenorth> bananas doesn't offer downloads, right?
21:02:35  <FLHerne> New-BaNaNaS doesn't, but that's a not-implemented-yet thing
21:02:50  <FLHerne> (I asked this the other day :p)
21:02:58  <FLHerne> It will someday
21:14:59  * andythenorth amends Horse docs
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21:26:39  * andythenorth fixes Title Case
21:29:12  <andythenorth> sentence case is so weird for titles, but It's The New Way
21:33:08  <frosch123> i like "Sentence Case Is The New Way" :)
21:38:56  <TrueBrain> Lol :D
21:40:28  <andythenorth> it's so weird making navigation sentence case
21:40:36  <andythenorth> because it often contains Proper Nouns
21:40:41  <andythenorth> so then there's an inconsistency
21:41:01  <andythenorth> Horse docs now have 'Get started' and 'Code reference' but also 'Train Whack!'
21:41:52  <frosch123> make everything lowercase?
21:42:16  <frosch123> or make WHACK all uppercase?
21:42:42  <frosch123> or remove the other links and only keep Train Whack?
21:43:03  <andythenorth> I can probably wrap .lower() etc in a random.choice?
21:43:25  <frosch123> +1 to randomly changing capitalisation :)
21:43:40  <andythenorth> LoLz
21:43:47  <frosch123> different on every reload, like the trains
21:45:00  <andythenorth> that would need JavaScript
21:45:02  <andythenorth> ew
21:45:05  <andythenorth> or javascript
21:45:16  <andythenorth> shall I tag Horse?
21:46:17  <andythenorth> oops, changelog
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22:05:27  <andythenorth> wow did I really research use of GPL for html?
22:05:29  <andythenorth> seems I did
22:09:41  <andythenorth> "Sprites complete for 499 consists; incomplete for 0 consists; 100%"
22:09:42  <andythenorth> lol
22:09:48  <andythenorth> 1 more for the round number
22:17:28  <TrueBrain> You go girl
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22:25:43  * andythenorth uploads to bananas
22:25:49  <andythenorth> who made this html anyway :P
22:26:46  <andythenorth> oh
22:26:54  <andythenorth> do I make my source code available?
22:26:59  <andythenorth> there's a message saying I have to
22:27:36  <frosch123> never heard of that
22:27:56  <andythenorth> sounds familiar though
22:28:05  <frosch123> i would have expected that was discussed here
22:28:05  <andythenorth> maybe I was away when it was discussed
22:31:21  <TrueBrain> Temporal amnesia
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22:31:58  <frosch123> good idea
22:32:00  <frosch123> night
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22:48:18  * andythenorth also
22:48:22  <andythenorth> but I released 100% trains
22:48:29  <andythenorth> please send grats etc
22:49:58  <FLHerne> grats!
22:50:16  <FLHerne> All the trains is nice, I'll have to try Horse again sometime
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