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Log for #openttd on 1st December 2020:
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08:58:38  <andythenorth> yo
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10:26:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] TrueBrain created new tag: 2.0.0 https://git.io/JIJYy
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10:29:40  <TrueBrain> attack of the bots! :P
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10:29:48  <TrueBrain> that is not good .....
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10:30:38  <andythenorth_> hello :)
10:31:04  <TrueBrain> I somewhat need to tune that, I guess :D
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10:34:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/aws-infra] TrueBrain pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JIJ3Z
10:34:52  <DorpsGek>   - Add: updated DorpsGek to version 2.0 (by TrueBrain)
10:35:38  <andythenorth_> 2.0 is always better than 1.0
10:36:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/aws-infra] TrueBrain closed issue #1: Migrate supybot from old VM to AWS https://git.io/JUjQV
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11:14:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #95: [sl_SI] Translator access request https://git.io/JIexN
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11:39:01  <andythenorth_> oh this might be a thing https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/instance-types/mac/
11:43:27  <TrueBrain> they do what GitHub has been doing for months now :P
11:43:38  <TrueBrain> okay, I wrote a news post ... it is 260 sentences long ..
11:43:43  <TrueBrain> I might have gone overboard :D
11:44:21  <andythenorth_> is it the best of all posts ever?
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12:00:29  <TrueBrain> okay, took me 15 minutes to proof-read it .. lol .. now lunch, after that adding a tons of links :P
12:00:38  <TrueBrain> @seen Bjarni
12:00:38  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 9 years, 8 weeks, 2 days, 11 hours, 41 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
12:00:45  <TrueBrain> I should have tested that earlier :P
12:00:47  <TrueBrain> but it still works :D
12:08:22  <Eddi|zuHause> @seen TrueBrain
12:08:22  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: TrueBrain was last seen in #openttd 7 minutes and 34 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> but it still works :D
12:08:47  <Eddi|zuHause> always test the other corner case :p
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12:27:13  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with streaming games, it heavily impacts performance
12:29:35  <LordAro> wonder if anyone is ever going to fix those dependabot alerts for the actions repo...
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12:36:53  <TrueBrain> LordAro: I am not, as it is a stupid one. But I suggest you change the dependabot alerts to only send for new ones
12:36:57  <TrueBrain> not repeating the same thing over and over :P
12:38:04  <TrueBrain> well, maybe we fix them in this months update-round ... that is possible
12:38:04  * FLHerne wonders about using Github's search API
12:38:16  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: kinda a blank statement :)
12:38:21  <FLHerne> DDG kind of sucks even when it's indexed properly
12:38:21  <TrueBrain> I wonder about going to the toilet :P
12:39:05  <TrueBrain> you are talking about the wiki, or? (sorry, context is difficult to guess :D)
12:39:11  <FLHerne> I mean, we could have some JS that performs a Github search API query when entering something in the wiki search
12:39:29  <TrueBrain> ah, wiki, okay :) Kinda important information :P
12:39:31  <FLHerne> It might get tripped up by all the markup though
12:39:43  <TrueBrain> what kind of search was an issue for you?
12:39:51  <FLHerne> I kind of assumed the wiki was the default topic here :p
12:39:55  <TrueBrain> (mind you, our wiki is still not indexer properly)
12:40:02  <TrueBrain> indexed, typing is hard
12:41:29  <TrueBrain> I think it is pretty important to first understand what people search for and what they do (not) find, before looking into other ways of searching :)
12:41:54  <TrueBrain> the mediawiki search for example is also rather useless for many ways of searching, I found out :D
12:42:52  <TrueBrain> so any indications of what people search and how they got stuck, is very useful information :)
12:42:53  <FLHerne> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Community/NewGRF/ seems surprisingly unsearchable
12:43:22  <FLHerne> (I tried 'newgrf list', 'newgrf', etc.)
12:43:28  <FLHerne> Might be lack of indexing
12:43:37  <TrueBrain> that page seems to not be indexed :(
12:43:46  <TrueBrain> but it might also be that it is a directory
12:43:55  <TrueBrain> which is something that I can fix :)
12:43:59  <FLHerne> But in general I use DDG as my default search engine, and from experience I know it's hopeless when searching for a specific phrase of more than 2-3 words
12:44:12  <FLHerne> It seems to just ignore "quotes" most of the time
12:44:25  <FLHerne> Perhaps no-one will ever want to search the wiki in that way
12:44:38  <TrueBrain> you cannot find that page with bing either
12:44:56  <TrueBrain> Google does find it
12:45:01  <TrueBrain> which shocks me, honestly :P
12:45:35  <TrueBrain> I am really really disappointed in Google btw ... this is close to insane
12:45:47  <TrueBrain> but it seems Bing doesn't pick it up because it is a folder
12:46:24  <TrueBrain> anyway, I am not against replacing DDG with anything else btw
12:47:07  <FLHerne> Might as well wait until the indexing's finished, and see how much it works
12:48:06  <TrueBrain> I think I can hint to Bing a bit better that it should index that page
12:48:27  <TrueBrain> and I have noticed that DDG picks up Bing results pretty quick
12:49:14  <FLHerne> Hm, from https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/   "OpenTTD is an source open source reimplementation" ...
12:49:31  <FLHerne> where 'source open source' links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open
12:49:49  <TrueBrain> haha
12:49:52  <TrueBrain> spaces vs %20 :)
12:50:10  <TrueBrain> [https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open source open source] should be [https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open%20source open source], I guess
12:50:13  <TrueBrain> feel free to fix it :)
12:50:16  <FLHerne> Fixed
12:50:25  <TrueBrain> <3
12:51:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
12:51:50  <TrueBrain> this might be too much ^^, but I enjoyed writing it :)
12:54:35  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: https://github.com/TrueBrain/TrueWiki/pull/100 <- hopefully that helps out for bing.com. From what I can tell, the issue you have is concentrated around URLs ending with a /
12:54:52  <TrueBrain> all other pages are found more easily, it seems
13:00:41  <TrueBrain> oops, I should have tested my PR it seems :D
13:01:14  <TrueBrain> ah, no, it is fine
13:01:15  <TrueBrain> pfew
13:01:53  <TrueBrain> lol ... every page has a "atom" feed with history
13:01:59  <TrueBrain> bing indexes those as "sitemaps"
13:02:03  <TrueBrain> over 2000 of them :D
13:03:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] JGRennison commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJXM
13:03:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] JGRennison commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJXD
13:11:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
13:14:11  <TrueBrain> funny, bing tells me it only found 11 URLs in the sitemap
13:14:15  <TrueBrain> pretty sure that is not correct :P
13:14:46  <TrueBrain> when I download the CSV, it is 11k :P
13:14:50  <TrueBrain> minor difference :D
13:15:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that's just 3 orders of magnitude...
13:16:23  <orudge> TrueBrain: was the old server really running Debian Etch? :O
13:16:31  <TrueBrain> it reads 10.997 .. it seems there is a , <-> . issue there
13:16:34  <TrueBrain> orudge: the old old server, yes
13:16:36  <TrueBrain> a VM inside the server
13:16:42  <orudge> Ah
13:17:01  <TrueBrain> so I firewalled the fuck out of it, but still .. not cool
13:17:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] orudge commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJyt
13:17:49  <orudge> Yeah
13:18:14  <orudge> A couple of years ago I discovered a client was still using CentOS 5 on a VM
13:18:26  <orudge> and a cPanel version that looked positively antique
13:18:38  <orudge> Migrating that to something more modern was fun
13:19:16  <LordAro> RHEL5 only went out of super-extended-support about a year ago :p
13:19:17  <TrueBrain> your comment is possibly not at a line you referencing too btw .. :D
13:19:32  <orudge> Hmm
13:19:32  <TrueBrain> owh, stupid shit
13:19:33  <TrueBrain> found it
13:19:34  <TrueBrain> nevermind
13:19:35  <orudge> It looks like it's at the right line
13:20:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
13:20:59  <TrueBrain> the bing webmaster tool is better than google's
13:23:16  <TrueBrain> one weird thing, it lowercases URLs ... which doesn't work :P
13:25:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] orudge commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJ9J
13:27:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
13:28:34  <TrueBrain> orudge: I have to figure out how to reset passwords via ldap CLI .. as I shut down the services to do it via web. If I manage, it might be nice to imapsync those 3 accounts indeed :)
13:29:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJ9X
13:30:19  <TrueBrain> lol @ google.nl .. oops :D
13:30:39  <LordAro> hmm, i suppose i need to finish up the release CI by the 25th so we can release 1.11.0-beta1
13:31:11  <LordAro> not that there have been *that* many changes this year, tbh
13:33:27  <LordAro> TrueBrain: what was the bug found during the yogscast(?) event?
13:34:17  <TrueBrain> owh, I was going to link those, tnx for reminding me
13:34:30  <TrueBrain> LordAro: if you did 2 specific requests in rapid succession, the software deadlocked
13:34:30  <LordAro> :)
13:34:38  <LordAro> nice
13:35:44  <TrueBrain> I never fixed it btw :P
13:36:06  <TrueBrain> not really anyway
13:36:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
13:36:44  <TrueBrain> removed many "..", tnx for pointing that out LordAro  :)
13:37:16  <LordAro> i catch myself adding commas everywhere :)
13:37:34  <TrueBrain> I do too :P Removed many already
13:37:41  <TrueBrain> still sure some are .. unneeded :P
13:49:45  <TrueBrain> orudge: still around? Time to try an imapsync?
13:49:52  <TrueBrain> I might have found how to reset passwords .. not sure :P
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13:52:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJd2
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13:53:40  <TrueBrain> LordAro: but do you remember which version of mediawiki it was?
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13:55:01  <LordAro> https://web.archive.org/web/20110918142654/http://wiki.openttd.org/Special:Version archive.org does :)
13:55:04  <LordAro> 1.12.0
13:55:34  <LordAro> assuming it wasn't upgraded after 2011 anyway, i suspect it was not :p
13:56:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJFt
13:56:22  <TrueBrain> we upgraded once ... but yeah, I guess that was in 2011
13:59:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
13:59:52  <TrueBrain> thanks a lot LordAro , much appreciated :)
14:10:11  <TrueBrain> okay, we will imapsync the 3 accounts of which we don't know what to do with yet .. after that, I can shut down the old server :D \o/
14:10:16  <TrueBrain> SO CLOSE! I CAN TASTE IT
14:10:33  <TrueBrain> i am shocked nothing broke so far ..... I expected I missed at least something
14:10:38  <TrueBrain> but so far so good .. lets hope it stays that way :P
14:12:46  <TrueBrain> LordAro / andythenorth_ / FLHerne : any chance you can release a new NML?
14:13:06  <TrueBrain> people are hitting walls, and are starting to try to compile "master" ... with ... various of degrees of success :D
14:13:36  <andythenorth_> I have removed myself from the project, so I can't
14:18:00  <supermop_Home_> andythenorth_ should i buy a book on Cornish clay?
14:21:05  <andythenorth_> hmm
14:21:18  <andythenorth_> the whole industry, or just the actual material?
14:25:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
14:32:08  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: What's wrong with nml?
14:33:22  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: nothing; but from what I understand, master fixes some things
14:33:26  <TrueBrain> and there hasn't been a release in a while
14:34:14  <LordAro> TrueBrain: looks a lot better with the headings now, i was thinking something similar
14:34:17  <LordAro> :)
14:35:41  <TrueBrain> and I rewrote "What next?"
14:35:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
14:35:58  <TrueBrain> let's rename it "What's next?"
14:35:59  <TrueBrain> :P
14:36:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
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14:37:18  <LordAro> you made it longer!
14:37:58  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I don't think there are any fixes for user-visible problems in master
14:38:15  <FLHerne> There's glx's parameter thing, which is a shiny new feature
14:38:22  <FLHerne> And a ton of code cleanups
14:38:39  <TrueBrain> all I see are users installing master, as the latest release is not cutting it :)
14:38:47  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Where?
14:38:47  <TrueBrain> I know very little about NML :P
14:38:50  <TrueBrain> Discord
14:38:53  <TrueBrain> and I am just relaying information here :)
14:39:05  <TrueBrain> "I need parameters in switches which are not in the latest release build"
14:39:08  <TrueBrain> to copy/paste something
14:39:08  <LordAro> no real harm in doing a new release really
14:39:15  <LordAro> releases are cheap now :)
14:39:18  <TrueBrain> release often, I always think :)
14:39:21  <LordAro> as andy says so often
14:40:15  <andythenorth_> I wouldn't release from current master
14:40:46  <FLHerne> andythenorth_: Warnings spam?
14:40:48  <andythenorth_> yes
14:40:55  <FLHerne> Yeah, that
14:41:01  <andythenorth_> it will be misunderstood by users
14:41:39  <andythenorth_> revs prior to https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/commit/7f62081693d5e3b0e4a0ea84d5f17bfb5e7947b9 are much quieter
14:41:45  <TrueBrain> LordAro: let me know where my English went wrong in the "what's next" :D
14:42:03  <andythenorth_> I currently build grfs with make install PW=16 2>&1 | grep -v "returns a constant"
14:42:06  <FLHerne> andythenorth_: It's only really an issue for generated code
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14:42:12  <andythenorth_> the important bit being the grep -v
14:42:13  <FLHerne> Which is mostly you :p
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14:42:26  <andythenorth_> timing :P
14:42:29  <FLHerne> Well, at that level of complexirt
14:42:44  <TrueBrain> it warns it is doing optimizations?
14:42:46  <TrueBrain> that sounds odd :P
14:42:49  <LordAro> speaking of nml, hi glx
14:43:00  <LordAro> have you fixed all the things yet?
14:43:04  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: It warns that the thing it's optimizing out did nothing
14:43:16  <TrueBrain> it is?
14:43:34  <TrueBrain> "Block '{}' returns a constant, optimising." <- guess it needs better phrasing?
14:43:38  <FLHerne> On the assumption that you typed it, so it's probably intended to do something
14:43:54  <TrueBrain> that warning is telling me the system is doing something :)
14:43:55  <FLHerne> This is fine except for generated code, where you didn't type it and probably don't care
14:44:17  <andythenorth_> the warning is useful to find cases that can be optimised out in the compile
14:44:17  <TrueBrain> "Block '{}' returns a constant, which is now being optimized out; was this intended?"
14:44:21  <TrueBrain> I guess is what the warning means?
14:44:22  <andythenorth_> which can improve compile time
14:45:03  <glx> it also improve run time
14:45:25  <andythenorth_> I mean in the compile of the .nml file, in the code generator :)
14:46:10  <andythenorth_> although that takes 4 seconds, so any claims I make about it getting faster can be ignored :P
14:46:10  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: Which discord?
14:46:19  <TrueBrain> -the- OpenTTD one, in this case :)
14:46:28  * andythenorth_ considers getting discord
14:46:30  <TrueBrain> either way, again, I was just relaying information :)
14:46:46  <TrueBrain> I really do not know how to link a Discord ... lol
14:47:13  <TrueBrain> https://discord.gg/0nQXSRX64lJprTrE <- someone knew that, and pinned a message :D
14:47:54  <TrueBrain> it is shocking, but that Discord has some very helpful people around, and the attitude is very positive
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14:49:17  <glx> LordAro: what things ?
14:49:27  <TrueBrain> ALL the things
14:49:29  <TrueBrain> you know
14:49:31  <TrueBrain> the world
14:49:31  <LordAro> ^
14:49:32  <TrueBrain> the universe
14:49:34  <TrueBrain> and the rest!
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14:49:58  <TrueBrain> I removed 2000+ sitemaps from bing for wiki.openttd.org, but 42 I could not delete
14:50:03  <TrueBrain> what ever I tried, it always kept 42 of them
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14:50:09  <LordAro> glx: the warning "spam", specifically
14:50:09  <TrueBrain> I guess ... it is the right answer
14:50:16  <FLHerne> for example, Arecibo collapsed today, it needs putting up again
14:50:30  <LordAro> osht, it's actually collapsed?
14:50:34  <FLHerne> Yeah
14:50:43  <glx> ah no, still no warning filters
14:50:43  <LordAro> rip :(
14:50:55  <FLHerne> The whole thing went twang-crash-splat a few hours ago
14:51:07  <LordAro> i'd heard it was likely going to be demolished
14:51:13  <FLHerne> Which I suppose vindicates the people who decided it wasn't safely repairable
14:51:28  <TrueBrain> what was their plan .. putting people on ropes connected to a helicopter?
14:51:32  <TrueBrain> that if it collapsed, they would be safe?
14:51:47  <FLHerne> Probably not, because cable snapback can be really nasty
14:51:53  <TrueBrain> like .. if you need to do that, you are already doing it wrong :P
14:51:55  <LordAro> TrueBrain: that was actually considered
14:52:01  <TrueBrain> I know, I wasn't really asking LordAro  :)
14:52:02  <LordAro> probably very briefly, but it was considered
14:52:26  <TrueBrain> years of neglect tends to collapse structures like that ...
14:52:30  <TrueBrain> no money for science :(
14:52:49  <FLHerne> What should warning filters look like?
14:52:59  <TrueBrain> -Wall
14:53:00  <TrueBrain> :P
14:53:05  <FLHerne> -Wno-redundant-switch or so?
14:53:26  <TrueBrain> do it the flask way, give every warning an unique number, and allow ignoring numbers based on content of a file
14:53:30  <FLHerne> s/redundant/constant/
14:54:04  <glx> there are also deprecation warnings to filter
14:54:07  <TrueBrain> file not mandatory btw :P
14:55:56  <FLHerne> -Wno-deprecated-industry in that case?
14:56:14  <FLHerne> (should be specific, so people still see any new deprecation warnings)
14:56:50  <FLHerne> There's --verbosity, but that doesn't seem usefuk
14:57:10  <glx> yeah verbosity is too generic
14:57:56  <FLHerne> And --quiet, which was always a terrible idea
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15:05:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
15:13:36  <orudge> TrueBrain: OK, I synced the other accounts just now, thought I might as well get it done :D Some of those mailboxes are heftier than I expected. But we should be ready for the old server to retire now...
15:13:49  <TrueBrain> w00p
15:13:58  <TrueBrain> what is a bit weird, is the size difference on your server vs my server :P
15:14:10  <TrueBrain> the storage size seems to be excluding the inbox size :)
15:14:32  <TrueBrain> tnx a bunch orudge , going to shut down the server now :D
15:14:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIUty
15:14:53  <LordAro> \o/
15:14:58  <LordAro>  |
15:15:01  <LordAro> \
15:15:03  <LordAro> shit
15:15:26  <TrueBrain> even more things LordAro ? :P
15:15:29  <orudge> TrueBrain: there's also compression on the new server
15:15:38  <LordAro> TrueBrain: just a few
15:15:42  <LordAro> i roped in a few friends
15:17:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
15:18:02  <TrueBrain> okay, all VMs are now offline \o/ \o/ \o/
15:18:05  <TrueBrain> now I need to backup them :P
15:18:23  <TrueBrain> the backup of OpenTTD alone is already 600GB
15:18:34  <TrueBrain> I think it will be 200GB more when I am done with the backups :P
15:18:49  <TrueBrain> I am very happy with my 500/500 connection :)
15:18:51  <andythenorth_> hmm
15:19:01  <andythenorth_> I could just rewrite my code to not trigger the warnings?
15:19:11  <TrueBrain> that would be a CRAZY idea :P
15:19:41  <andythenorth_> I'd need to learn more about writing compilers I guess
15:19:51  <andythenorth_> it would need to start analysing the code it's generating
15:19:55  <andythenorth_> instead of just generating it
15:20:14  <andythenorth_> I guess it would need to know something about nml semantics
15:20:19  <TrueBrain> orudge / LordAro: owh, and I now also dare to say the XenServer host was running for 1900 days .. without patches :P
15:20:25  <TrueBrain> that is now safe to say :D
15:20:47  <TrueBrain> XenServer build date: 2015-04-17 ...
15:20:53  <andythenorth_> I guess if I wrote a compiler, it could stop outputting nml?
15:21:01  <andythenorth_> python -> grf
15:21:30  <andythenorth_> I'd need to parse my input into an AST?
15:21:34  * andythenorth_ uses words
15:21:55  <andythenorth_> Compiler Design 101 is now starting :P
15:22:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
15:22:16  <LordAro> TrueBrain: nice.
15:22:27  * LordAro looks at his VPS
15:22:31  <TrueBrain> honestly, that kept me up most at night ...
15:22:46  <TrueBrain> I once replaced the XenServer with a newer version, in 2015
15:22:53  <TrueBrain> was more than a few hours of work :(
15:22:54  * LordAro 's VPS reached 1000 days a year ago
15:23:07  <LordAro> then i upgraded to debian buster :p
15:23:08  <TrueBrain> not something to be proud about :P
15:24:47  <andythenorth_> there's a lot more train chat in this discord
15:24:52  <andythenorth_> it's really on-topic
15:25:06  <TrueBrain> there is an off topic channel, if youlike
15:25:08  <TrueBrain> I have it muted :P
15:25:58  <FLHerne> andythenorth_: I've said before, it would kind of make sense to have your tooling call directly into NML rather than generate text
15:26:12  *** Flygon has quit IRC
15:26:18  <andythenorth_> Eddi did it with CETS
15:26:26  <FLHerne> Unfortunately nml kind of sucks from a Python API perspective
15:26:28  <andythenorth_> it's a step beyond what I could accomplish I think
15:26:53  <andythenorth_> I suspect there is an implicit AST in my compile
15:27:16  <andythenorth_> but most of the control logic is still written in nml
15:27:18  <FLHerne> (which is something I'd like to try and improve; I originally started poking nml because I was trying to use it for a GUI grf builder and that also sucked)
15:27:41  <FLHerne> I think your definition of 'AST' might differ from everyone else's ;-)
15:27:48  <supermop_Home_> andythenorth_ https://shop.cooperhewitt.org/collections/product-design-books/products/colour-and-material-studies-in-porcelain-collection-cornwall
15:28:18  <andythenorth_> supermop_Home_ that colour is correct, and I widely use it in web UIs
15:30:01  <andythenorth_> I think I'll stop saying AST, and stick to 'tree'
15:30:09  <andythenorth_> there is an implicit tree in my compile
15:30:19  <TrueBrain> how many?
15:30:24  <andythenorth_> yes
15:30:46  <andythenorth_> I don't know, it just looks like a forest to me
15:30:50  <TrueBrain> that sounds like the right amount!
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15:39:32  <andythenorth_> discord is baffling :)
15:39:38  * andythenorth_ should read instructions
15:39:53  <TrueBrain> there is a lot to read and understand if you never used it
15:40:01  <TrueBrain> but .. you also learn it easily when using it :)
15:40:20  <andythenorth_> I just want to spam some stuff into openttd discord channel
15:40:29  <TrueBrain> go for it
15:40:31  <andythenorth_> but I'm not allowed, and there's some kind of slow mode filter
15:40:38  <andythenorth_> and I have to have my own server or something
15:40:42  <andythenorth_> UIs confuse people
15:40:59  * andythenorth_ rephrases
15:41:02  <andythenorth_> UIs confuse andythenorth_
15:41:16  <TrueBrain> haha, yes, it is possible they configured the server that if you just joined, you cannot speak :)
15:41:29  <TrueBrain> well, I gave you some words of encouragement :)
15:42:02  <andythenorth_> hmm it has push-to-talk?
15:42:05  <andythenorth_> that is interesting
15:42:08  <TrueBrain> voice, yes
15:42:12  * andythenorth_ getting bored of video chat tools
15:42:22  <TrueBrain> well, you are already getting love andythenorth_  :)
15:45:23  <TrueBrain> owh, sorry andythenorth_ , I just never get the opportunity to talk shit about you without you being able to reply :P
15:46:10  <andythenorth_> well you could start a dedicated channel for it
15:46:22  <andythenorth_> or you could do it in OpenTTD issues which I stopped reading
15:47:03  <Xaroth> TrueBrain shittalking? story of my life tbh :P
15:47:12  <glx> wow they are fast to react, I'm already added to openttd dev role
15:47:24  <andythenorth_> not sure I can handle being in 2 channels at once
15:47:34  <andythenorth_> but this answers 'should I join reddit?' at least
15:48:03  <Xaroth> Fun note, you can create folders inside discord to more easily group servers if you're on several :P
15:48:15  <TrueBrain> "fun" he said
15:48:20  <TrueBrain> we need to have a talk about what is "fun" and what not
15:48:48  <Xaroth> What can I say, a lot of people want me to join their server... unlike you, who never invited me!
15:48:52  <andythenorth_> I had fun once
15:48:56  <TrueBrain> glx: it is pnda, he is kind like that, yes :)
15:49:15  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: being in 1 common channel with you is more than enough thank you very much
15:49:29  <Xaroth> :D :D
15:51:02  <TrueBrain> so now we only need to get frosch to Discord, and we can close IRC, right?
15:51:13  <andythenorth_> oof web discord is killing my CPU
15:51:18  <FLHerne> What we need is an IRC-Discord bridge
15:51:26  <FLHerne> I don't want this stupid browser thing open all the time
15:51:28  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: I ran that for a while ... no, we do not :P
15:51:40  <TrueBrain> the protocols really are not compatible enough, basically
15:51:43  <TrueBrain> IRC -> Discord is fine
15:51:48  <TrueBrain> Discord -> IRC .... not so much
15:52:04  <glx> I just use the discord app
15:52:08  <TrueBrain> I do too
15:52:21  <TrueBrain> I have the mobile app and the desktop app
15:52:25  <glx> same
15:52:33  <TrueBrain> but if you don't have many people on Discord, that feels weird at first
15:52:39  <glx> and some muted servers :)
15:52:42  <TrueBrain> before you know it .. all other chat thingies are annoying :P
15:53:08  <FLHerne> Well, I'm not leaving my hundred-odd IRC channels, and I don't want two chat clients
15:53:29  <TrueBrain> I am happy the group "OpenTTD Developer" is a ... broad defined group :P
15:53:57  <FLHerne> I'm very puzzled that I seem to have name recognition on Discord :p
15:53:59  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: there is only one answer for that: https://xkcd.com/1782/ :)
15:54:26  <FLHerne> I mean, I've made a handful of NML commits, and I was active on the forums, like, six years ago
15:54:57  <glx> that's enough to be known
15:55:02  <andythenorth_> FLHerne you're now a maintainer :P
15:55:07  <TrueBrain> it is always fun to realise how other people perceive you :)
15:55:27  <FLHerne> (tbf, I was *very* active on the forums like six years ago)
15:56:03  <FLHerne> andythenorth_: darn
15:56:09  <FLHerne> As if I didn't have enough problems
15:56:56  <TrueBrain> but ... to go back to that "100 IRC channels" .. wtf?
15:57:19  <FLHerne> It just seems disproportionate when TrueBrain's rewritten the entire server stack and andy's single-handedly made half the grf ecosystem :p
15:57:43  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: They stopped fitting on the side of my screen years ago
15:57:53  <FLHerne> You can never have too many arguments
15:58:01  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: that is your perception; mine is different: pretty sure a few of those NML PRs wouldn't have happened without you .. and I wouldn't be able to do it :)
15:58:21  <TrueBrain> we all have our strengths and points of contribution :)
15:58:40  <FLHerne> I suppose I'd better hack on nml a bit more :-/
15:58:55  <TrueBrain> hahaha, you feel pressured now? :P
15:58:56  <TrueBrain> :D
15:59:37  <FLHerne> IRC channels http://www.flherne.uk/files/Screenshot_20201201_155912.png
15:59:48  <TrueBrain> wtf really
15:59:57  <TrueBrain> I was hoping IRC would die a bit, but it seems a few keep it alive :P
16:00:29  <FLHerne> It's like TTD, all the newer ones are worse
16:00:35  <FLHerne> Or closed-source
16:00:37  <andythenorth_> I don't think I made half the grf ecosystem :P
16:00:37  <TrueBrain> :D
16:00:45  <andythenorth_> I've done about as much as pikka
16:00:56  <TrueBrain> yes ... that makes 99% of the ecosystem :P
16:01:02  <TrueBrain> well done on your math there buddy :)
16:01:23  <glx> and remember TrueBrain knowns newgrf numbers ;)
16:02:18  <glx> based on user migration to github he could see the volume of newgrfs
16:02:18  <andythenorth_> if we just go by download count, other people are way more popular
16:02:23  <andythenorth_> "pls just love me"
16:02:39  <TrueBrain> I was going by: how many people reused what-ever you did :P
16:03:14  <glx> if they reuse andythenorth_'s template system they are crazy ;)
16:03:28  <TrueBrain> people are forking FIRS left and right
16:03:34  <andythenorth_> and centre
16:03:38  <TrueBrain> no
16:03:40  <TrueBrain> never centre
16:03:42  <TrueBrain> fucking weirdo
16:03:45  <TrueBrain> :P
16:03:46  <TrueBrain> <3
16:04:01  <andythenorth_> there are as many as...get this....*7* forks :o
16:04:19  <TrueBrain> and at least 2 are released on BaNaNaS
16:04:24  <TrueBrain> possibly more :P
16:05:34  <TrueBrain> I want to make dinner, but I was like: I will wait for this backup to finish, so I can start the other one over dinner
16:05:41  <TrueBrain> but ... it has been 30 minutes already
16:05:45  <TrueBrain> I am starting to get hungry ...
16:06:37  <andythenorth_> never wait for a machine
16:06:43  <andythenorth_> ideal life goal
16:07:02  <TrueBrain> sounds like a horrible piece of advise when trains are involved
16:07:13  <TrueBrain> walks over crosswalk yelling, I NEVER WAIT FOR A MACHINE
16:07:44  <andythenorth_> machine waits for you
16:07:59  <andythenorth_> there are a lot of dots on icons in discord
16:08:04  <andythenorth_> I should probably click on them all
16:08:37  <andythenorth_> oh peter is in the discord still, I hope he's ok
16:08:47  <andythenorth_> I mean, I could just ask, but I am to blame for him leaving so eh
16:08:51  <TrueBrain> ask him! I have seen him playing games, so I guess he is :)
16:09:06  <TrueBrain> there is a huge difference between direct and indirect causing something
16:09:26  <TrueBrain> one thing caused WW II, but to blame the war on that one thing .. :P
16:09:33  <andythenorth_> there is a big difference between "I am the centre of the world" and objective reality
16:09:36  <andythenorth_> but I prefer option 1
16:09:41  <TrueBrain> we know :P
16:09:42  <TrueBrain> <3
16:10:01  <andythenorth_> I don't always get option 1, unlike Donald J Trump
16:10:06  <andythenorth_> but eh
16:10:15  <TrueBrain> you want the world to laugh at you that badly?
16:10:26  <orudge> [15:20:20] <TrueBrain> orudge / LordAro: owh, and I now also dare to say the XenServer host was running for 1900 days .. without patches :P <-- impressive
16:10:36  <TrueBrain> orudge: not the word I would use, but sure
16:10:45  <orudge> I didn't say it was good or clever :D
16:11:01  <TrueBrain> terrifying, is the word I rather use :)
16:11:21  <TrueBrain> okay, backup done, next backup is running, food time!
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16:24:19  <supermop_Home_> do a lot of people use discord here?
16:24:44  <supermop_Home_> i see basically no use case for myself
16:25:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] LordAro approved pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIU86
16:26:27  <TrueBrain> I will ask frosch123 to fact-check the post before merging :)
16:36:53  <TrueBrain> total backup: 672GB
16:36:54  <TrueBrain> lol
16:37:39  <TrueBrain> orudge: I see no reason to renew the server this friday
16:38:03  <TrueBrain> we will see if anything pops up tomorrow, but .. I think we are fine by just letting it expire (which is btw the OVH way of cancelling your subscription)
16:38:18  <TrueBrain> you would think you can cancel it somewhere, but no .. letting it expire is their way of doing so :D
16:39:32  <orudge> TrueBrain: Yes, they tend to keep the server up for a few days then they terminate it
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16:40:09  <TrueBrain> for my own server I wiped the disks before it expired .. I wonder if I should do that here too
16:40:10  <orudge> You can now do automatic payments via credit card for OVH, and so there is a cancellation option, but I don't think there's an immediate termination option. Well maybe there is, but letting it expire naturally is fine to be honest.
16:40:27  <TrueBrain> I looked, there is no: CANCEL NOW, anywhere :D
16:40:31  <TrueBrain> and yes, their method is fine
16:41:03  <TrueBrain> okay, this is a nice GDPR violation .. send people a newsletter about "subscribe to our newsletter"
16:41:07  <TrueBrain> it is opt-in dipshits, not opt-out
16:42:31  <TrueBrain> (Docker sending an email about a newsletter)
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17:02:11  <FLHerne> andythenorth_: I think I'm more directly to blame for upsetting peter :-/
17:02:22  <FLHerne> I wrote that stupid comment about NRT
17:02:54  <andythenorth_> I campaigned for NRT for about 8 years
17:03:27  *** Progman has joined #openttd
17:03:29  <FLHerne> Yeah, background vs proximate cause...
17:24:44  <Xaroth> was there something that didn't upset peter?
17:27:48  <TrueBrain> Don't be a dick plz
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17:31:40  <milek7> I'm trying to setup matrix server
17:31:48  <milek7> but that federation feature seems useless honestly
17:32:22  <TrueBrain> Depends on how you want to use it
17:32:34  <TrueBrain> Matrix has different ways it can be used :)
17:32:46  <milek7> maybe it requires i9 and 64gb ram? I dunno
17:33:04  <milek7> joining 'mozilla central' took 15min
17:33:28  <milek7> joining `matrix hq` is doing something for 20min and seems stuck..
17:33:34  <TrueBrain> You don't need a server to join these servers :)
17:34:00  <TrueBrain> I only run servers non-federated
17:34:08  <milek7> that sort of defeats the point
17:34:09  <TrueBrain> I leave the rest for others :p
17:34:26  <TrueBrain> Depends on what you want from it :)
17:35:27  <milek7> but wtf
17:35:28  <milek7> 4gb ram is not enough for chat!?
17:38:40  <TrueBrain> You are clearly misunderstanding what is going on :)
17:38:54  <TrueBrain> For chat, you only need a client
17:39:40  <TrueBrain> Running a federated server .. that is another league on its own :)
17:42:09  <milek7> oh I know, but that just defeats the point
17:42:14  <milek7> I could use discord or whatever then
17:43:21  <TrueBrain> You keep referring to some magic "point"
17:57:48  *** TooTallTyler has quit IRC
17:58:18  <milek7> well it advertises itself as 'An open network for secure, decentralized communication'
17:58:37  <milek7> but it turns out that 'decentralized' sort of doesn't work in reality
18:01:23  <TrueBrain> It is truly decentralized
18:01:49  <TrueBrain> Well, depends a bit on how many servers are in a federation, I guess
18:01:59  <TrueBrain> My home server is not decentralized :D
18:02:42  <TrueBrain> But if you expect decentralized also means low-memory, that might be a wrong expectation :D
18:04:58  <milek7> I would say that 'decentralized' implies 'you can run it without unreasonable hardware requirements'
18:05:03  <milek7> but apparently not ;p
18:07:28  <TrueBrain> That really was an assumption on your part :)
18:07:55  <TrueBrain> Still, joining huge federations doesnt require that much resources, compared
18:08:34  <TrueBrain> Joining smaller ones take almost nothing btw
18:13:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot opened pull request #77: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/JIUiT
18:14:05  <TrueBrain> Let there be spam!
18:14:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot opened pull request #15: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/JIUiW
18:14:53  <LordAro> \o/
18:15:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #50: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/JIUir
18:16:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #38: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/JIUiF
18:18:39  *** otetede has joined #openttd
18:22:14  <TrueBrain> we are not done yettttt
18:22:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #22: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/JIUP1
18:23:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #17: Scheduled monthly dependency update for December https://git.io/JIUPF
18:23:48  <milek7> >doesnt require that much resources, compared
18:23:51  <milek7> compared to what?
18:24:46  <TrueBrain> lol, my mobile ate some letters :)
18:25:05  <TrueBrain> compared to what it does / how it does it / what it offers, etc
18:26:32  <TrueBrain> hmm ... none of the actions are starting up
18:27:41  <milek7> lol
18:27:43  <milek7> 'At least 1GB of free RAM if you want to join large public rooms like #matrix:matrix.org'
18:28:28  <milek7> quite an understatement
18:28:56  <milek7> imo it's nice idea, but implementation it's just broken
18:29:08  <TrueBrain> I think you are judging something without understanding what is going on :)
18:29:20  <TrueBrain> that is easy to do, I get that, but if you dive in ..
18:31:24  <TrueBrain> and in case you missed the memos, Matrix has passed the station of "idea" a while ago :D It has a pretty solid userbase
18:31:43  *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd
18:32:14  <TrueBrain> https://www.githubstatus.com/incidents/sxthxvdlljk4 <- pfew, it is not me :)
18:33:02  <TrueBrain> will be interesting to see if the new pip is installed in the base docker images, and if things break because of the new pip .. it is likely
18:36:05  <milek7> anyway, I need replacement for mattermost that does have some moderation tools
18:36:14  <milek7> (..unfederated synapse maaybe would do it, but after what I've seen I don't trust it anymore)
18:38:14  <TrueBrain> as mentioned earlier, you are easy to judge a book by its cover :)
18:38:31  <TrueBrain> if you want a private on-premise deployment, an unfederated Matrix works lovely
18:38:42  <TrueBrain> setup your own identity server if you like even
18:38:45  <TrueBrain> smooth sailing
18:39:46  <TrueBrain> but if you measure your experience based on joining the biggest federation out there, and complaining it using a bit of memory .. I guess there is not really an alternative for you :)
18:40:38  <milek7> oh, and I need to migrate mattermost conversation history
18:44:09  <milek7> mattermost is fine, but it just isn't made for public deployments: no way to ban user from channel, no op/permissions except system administrator, anybody can delete channel, anybody can kick anybody..
18:57:04  <TrueBrain> oowwhhh, one GitHub Action became alive! Of course failed ... commit checker :D
18:57:25  <TrueBrain> the backlog is going to be gigantic :D
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19:15:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] stormcone commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIUS1
19:30:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain dismissed a review for pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIU86
19:30:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
19:30:59  <FLHerne> I don't understand *how* such a server requires many GB of RAM
19:31:01  <FLHerne> Text is small :p
19:31:03  <TrueBrain> frosch123: would you mind fact-checking ^^ ? :) You often have this nice memory of the past ;)
19:31:18  <frosch123> already have the first pending comment
19:31:23  <TrueBrain> FLHerne: it is because how Matrix do federations
19:31:27  <TrueBrain> frosch123: <3
19:31:28  <frosch123> no idea what "so why the no?" means
19:31:50  <TrueBrain> "### Is this a bad thing, you ask?
19:31:50  <TrueBrain> Well, yes and no."
19:31:54  <TrueBrain> but that gained distance :D
19:32:54  <TrueBrain> I will rephrase it :D
19:32:57  * andythenorth_ would have published it already :)
19:33:06  <andythenorth_> then re-read it 50 times for improvements :P
19:33:18  <TrueBrain> good thing I am not re-reading it :)
19:37:39  <TrueBrain> 3 hours in GitHub issues, still no update .. mehhhh :P HURRY UP! WE HAVE STUFF TO RELEASE :D
19:38:51  <Wolf01> https://www.commitstrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Strip-Top-langage-web-650-finalenglish.jpg :D
19:39:56  <TrueBrain> stop telling horror stories Wolf01
19:39:58  <TrueBrain> it is not funny :P
19:40:03  <Wolf01> :DDDD
19:44:10  <Wolf01> I need to start making newobjects for OpenTTD
19:44:30  <Wolf01> But first I need to learn how to pixel
19:44:54  <andythenorth_> you just draw 1 pixel to start with
19:45:03  <andythenorth_> then you draw 1 more
19:45:07  <andythenorth_> then you just keep doing that
19:45:32  <Wolf01> I'll end up drawing a defrag screen
19:46:28  <andythenorth_> I _think_ I've drawn about 15 million pixels, at a guess
19:46:50  <andythenorth_> that is actually a shitload of clicks on my trackpad :o
19:47:50  <TrueBrain> and it survived?
19:48:10  <andythenorth_> let's say there was more than 1
19:48:38  <LordAro> andythenorth_: how many ships is that?
19:48:48  <andythenorth_> about 3
19:49:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] frosch123 commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIU7N
19:49:11  <frosch123> TrueBrain: quite some essay :)
19:49:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIU5f
19:50:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
19:50:59  <TrueBrain> and if you didn't find any errors in my timeline, good :D
19:51:08  <TrueBrain> now we just have to wait for GitHub Actions to act normal again :P
19:51:15  <andythenorth_> what's the next essay!???!! :)
19:51:21  <andythenorth_> future of nml?
19:51:25  <andythenorth_> state of the base game? :)
19:51:34  <andythenorth_> things to watch on TV at christmas?
19:51:41  <LordAro> TrueBrain: "IRC bot *that* was running"
19:51:48  <LordAro> otherwise the tenses(?) don't match
19:52:09  <TrueBrain> LordAro: that sentence is no longer there; reload and let me know what you think about this sentence
19:52:11  <LordAro> "IRC bot *that* was not ..."*
19:52:20  <TrueBrain> ah, okay, I was about to say :P
19:52:28  <LordAro> :p
19:52:48  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
19:52:51  <LordAro> i wonder whether 'winter' should be capitalised
19:53:32  <TrueBrain> that kind of nitpicking I leave for others :P
19:53:58  <LordAro> well it looks inconsistent with all the others ^^
19:54:39  <TrueBrain> well, "may" doesn't exist in the English dictionary. It really is May.
19:54:53  <TrueBrain> (I love using May for these kind of jokes :D)
19:55:38  <TrueBrain> but feel free to look it up in a dictionary LordAro , if your OCD is triggering that much :)
19:56:08  <milek7> 'winter' is probably ambiguous?
19:56:20  <TrueBrain> no, I am just messing with LordAro a bit. It really is "winter"
19:56:39  <TrueBrain> it is not like my OCD is any better than his :P
19:56:53  <frosch123> DorpsGek: happy birthday!
19:57:04  <andythenorth_> what is OCD pls?
19:57:11  <frosch123> @logs
19:57:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
19:57:16  <TrueBrain> funny enough, the missing "d" a line above he did not notice :P
19:57:30  <TrueBrain> frosch123: logs are not yet public; something I have to setup first. soon! (tm)
19:57:51  <frosch123> ah, fine, will continue with webster then :)
19:57:55  <milek7> northern/southern hemisphere thing
20:14:30  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] frosch123 approved pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIUFN
20:15:20  <glx> andythenorth_: accidentally joined a vocal channel ?
20:26:18  *** jottyfan has quit IRC
20:32:44  <andythenorth_> glx maybe?
20:32:54  <andythenorth_> let's see
20:33:19  <andythenorth_> was that streaming audio?  Mic is blocked to this browser
20:33:40  <glx> you were mute
20:34:03  <andythenorth_> yeah discord has this bouncing yellow exclamation icon
20:34:06  <andythenorth_> so I clicked it
20:34:13  <andythenorth_> but then it said I had to go to the helpdesk
20:34:19  <andythenorth_> [shrug] UI design is hard
20:34:33  <andythenorth_> how do people even computer?
20:39:28  *** otetede has quit IRC
20:41:00  <andythenorth_> yogscast openttd time
20:41:13  <andythenorth_> they're swearing a lot, and my kids are not asleep yet
20:41:25  <andythenorth_> https://www.twitch.tv/yogscast
20:42:27  <frosch123> haha, perfect time for the news post :)
20:42:57  <frosch123> no idea what their target age is
20:44:11  <frosch123> but my 10yo nephew is invested in minecraft songs or something
20:45:20  <andythenorth_> 10yos are weird
20:45:25  <andythenorth_> half child, half teenager
20:45:41  <andythenorth_> they're using some horrible old FIRS
20:45:45  <frosch123> teenager starts as 12 :p
20:45:47  <frosch123> err 13
20:50:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain merged pull request #176: Add: news post about finishing aws migration https://git.io/JIJik
20:50:15  <TrueBrain> let's see how stable this stuff is ...
20:50:37  <TrueBrain> wait, they are actually playing OpenTTD now? That is ... funny :P
20:51:15  <frosch123> i keep on forgetting, but i think ottd is always december 1st
20:51:37  <frosch123> just like april 1st is release date :)
20:52:32  <TrueBrain> well, traffic is spiking
20:52:36  <TrueBrain> 3 times the normal volume :P
20:53:09  <FLHerne> andythenorth_: You should do this twitch chat thing and tell them you drew all the pixels
20:53:44  <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JCXwJGB.png
20:53:50  <frosch123> FLHerne: no, not again :)
20:54:21  <frosch123> there was an early-teen some years ago, who was chatting here and in their twitch
20:54:28  <frosch123> playing mailman
20:55:14  <frosch123> TrueBrain: is that the new twitch game?
20:55:31  <TrueBrain> that is the load of one of our services :P
20:55:37  <frosch123> twitch plays spreadsheet charts
20:56:07  <FLHerne> frosch123: I don't think the fact that a teenager can make something annoying proves that it's a bad idea
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20:56:23  <FLHerne> Otherwise pretty much everything would be a bad idea
20:56:43  <frosch123> valid theory :)
20:58:07  <TrueBrain> shocker, BaNaNaS traffic is also spiking :P
20:58:32  <frosch123> now only the aws credits need spiking
21:03:13  <TrueBrain> it is 5 times more traffic to www.openttd.org :P
21:03:14  <TrueBrain> haha
21:03:29  <andythenorth_> FLHerne I'd have to register a twitch account :P
21:05:08  <frosch123> andythenorth_: it gets worse. to be a kool kid you have to use bttv (better twitch tv) as chat client, to have more emojis
21:05:37  <TrueBrain> not happy how the news item is styled, but I can't be bothered to dive in CSS .. lets release this :P
21:05:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain created new tag: 1.4.5 https://git.io/JIUjG
21:06:26  <andythenorth_> ship it!
21:08:17  <TrueBrain> I AM!
21:08:39  <TrueBrain> it always surprises me how much impact streamers have on sites :)
21:09:06  <andythenorth_> no that's just me hitting refresh
21:09:11  <andythenorth_> to see your post
21:11:37  <TrueBrain> hmm ... publishing to staging worked just fine, but now GitHub Actions seems stuck again :(
21:11:40  *** gelignite has quit IRC
21:15:49  <andythenorth_> poof
21:15:53  <andythenorth_> oof even
21:19:57  <TrueBrain> "make sure to put passwords on companies"
21:20:01  <TrueBrain> best .. advise .. ever
21:21:38  <TrueBrain> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=87947
21:21:41  <TrueBrain> there
21:21:45  <TrueBrain> done with this migration crap
21:21:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/aws-infra] TrueBrain closed issue #3: Shut down the old infrastructure https://git.io/JUj7W
21:22:56  <TrueBrain> now I go on vacation yes yes?
21:24:06  <frosch123> you need a VR set for that
21:24:11  <frosch123> but you can have some cookies
21:24:49  <frosch123> also, why do you have so many posts on the forum?
21:24:59  <TrueBrain> honestly ... I really do not know
21:25:07  <TrueBrain> I cannot remember I was active on the forums
21:25:08  <TrueBrain> guess I once was
21:25:23  <frosch123> 112 posts in the noai topic
21:26:12  <TrueBrain> that is 10% !
21:27:40  <frosch123>    159   1889  11575 2019-07-14-monthly-dev-post.md
21:27:41  <frosch123>    321   3263  19764 2020-12-01-infrastructure-migration-finished.md
21:27:44  <frosch123> just saying :)
21:27:55  <TrueBrain> I broke the record? Nice!
21:28:11  <frosch123> you just wrote 7% of news posts
21:28:24  <TrueBrain> I used to write these kind of posts on the forum
21:28:32  <TrueBrain> I can port them, if you like :P
21:29:01  <frosch123> actually, most of the long posts are from after jekyll
21:29:10  <frosch123> i guess the old webeditbox did not ask for long posts :p
21:30:14  <TrueBrain> I really REALLY did not like writing in a textbox, no :P
21:30:29  <TrueBrain> (it was django-admin default thingy)
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21:31:53  <frosch123> ah, sorting my linecount is unfair. the textbox news do not break liens
21:32:37  <TrueBrain> no, they did not
21:32:38  <frosch123> hmm, sorting by bytecount makes the 2019+ posts even more dominant :p
21:33:01  <TrueBrain> even michi_cc joins Discord? Omg!
21:33:05  <TrueBrain> frosch123: where are you? :P
21:33:23  <frosch123> pff, in my memory the 1.0.0 release post was really long. but there were 3 longer release posts
21:33:45  <michi_cc> I've been using Discord in general already, just not for OpenTTD :)
21:33:54  <TrueBrain> well, welcome :)
21:34:12  <frosch123> TrueBrain: uhm... are you suggesting we shall all leave irc on the day you finished dorpsgek4?
21:34:23  <TrueBrain> hahahaha, yes :D
21:34:36  <TrueBrain> it wouldn't even hurt my feelings, funny enough :)
21:34:52  <frosch123> is there some client that can connect to both irc and discord?
21:34:58  <TrueBrain> not that I am aware
21:34:59  <frosch123> or shall i get a haiku wm?
21:35:16  <TrueBrain> Discord is best viewed in either their app or via the web
21:35:35  <andythenorth_> we need comments on the news posts
21:35:42  <andythenorth_> or...like a forum even?
21:36:05  <TrueBrain> the reason I posted it on the forums is to have a place for comments, as I realised too there was no place what-so-ever :P
21:36:12  <andythenorth_> Buckle Up!
21:36:13  <andythenorth_> etc
21:36:21  <frosch123> andythenorth_: people found github commit comments to comment on wiki pages
21:36:23  <TrueBrain> a GitHub Discussion :P
21:36:26  <frosch123> they will find the same solution for news posts
21:36:30  <andythenorth_> mmmmm
21:36:35  <TrueBrain> but is it one we like? :D
21:36:58  <andythenorth_> so now you can start on the MMORPG version of openttd?  With sharded maps and other crap?
21:37:16  <andythenorth_> OpenTTD Forever!
21:37:17  <glx> <andythenorth_> we need comments on the news posts <-- no we don't, else we need moderation
21:37:34  <TrueBrain> andythenorth_: don't tempt me ....
21:38:42  <frosch123> hmm, maybe pidgin can
21:39:24  <andythenorth_> and web saves
21:39:30  <andythenorth_> and a web based content creator
21:39:40  <frosch123> we already have that
21:39:52  <andythenorth_> we do? :o
21:39:55  <frosch123> it's called "irc + talk to andy"
21:40:03  <andythenorth_> that's just a turk
21:40:20  <andythenorth_> I mean makemytrain.farm
21:40:47  <frosch123> i forgot whether we talked about myfirs.farm, or myhorse.farm
21:41:18  <andythenorth_> firs.farm is for christmas trees
21:42:10  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i'll try pidgin tomorrow, see whether it can cannot to irc and discord, and whether it is decent on any scale
21:42:20  <TrueBrain> :D
21:42:27  <frosch123> s/cannot/connect/
21:42:29  <frosch123> wtf
21:42:45  <frosch123> was thas fore-shadowing?
21:43:51  <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JCXR4Ax.png
21:43:53  <TrueBrain> I like graphs
21:44:12  <frosch123> did that link already leak to twitch chat?
21:44:45  <LordAro> TrueBrain: congrats :)
21:45:01  <LordAro> we all owe you many drinks
21:45:59  <milek7> about haiku: it needs some cmake fixes
21:46:13  <milek7> -rdynamic is not supported, and it needs extra linker flags: -lbe -lnetwork -lmidi
21:46:56  <milek7> (and sdl2 is glitchy for some reason, sdl1 works better)
21:46:59  <frosch123> TrueBrain: in other news. there was a specifically targeted scam mail wave at work today, and i took the opportunity to thank IT for their "external mail" warning banners :)
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21:47:11  <TrueBrain> hahahahaha
21:47:15  <TrueBrain> you are such an ass :D I like it :)
21:47:31  <frosch123> i think i am the first one to thank them, so let's see what i can earn from that down the river :p
21:47:55  <andythenorth_> so Yogscast have raised £500k so far
21:48:03  <TrueBrain> its insane ....
21:48:05  <TrueBrain> (in a good way)
21:48:24  <TrueBrain> owh, and if someone links it to Yogcast twitch chat, that graph above, I would love to know their reaction :)
21:49:33  <LordAro> TrueBrain: what is that graph? client download numbers?
21:49:39  <TrueBrain> requests
21:49:54  <TrueBrain> HTTPS requests to the ALB to be exact, which hosts dynamic part of openttd.org :P
21:49:59  <TrueBrain> but the increase is 80% on www.openttd.org
21:50:16  <frosch123> LordAro: doesn't matter. it's a curve twitch chat can influence
21:50:48  <TrueBrain> the details are indeed not as important as the scale they alone caused
21:50:55  <TrueBrain> 3 times more traffic as normal
21:51:37  <andythenorth_> peter is alive on twitter
21:52:07  <frosch123> oh, we actually managed to get more members than teams :)
21:52:07  <LordAro> nice
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21:52:19  <TrueBrain> :D
21:52:31  <frosch123> but the number of failed invitations is still insane
21:52:49  <TrueBrain> still not sure they don't understand GitHub enough, or that their attention-span is this low
21:52:53  <frosch123> i wonder how many actually translated a string after applying
21:53:23  <frosch123> well, they are no fresh sign-ups to github
21:53:34  <frosch123> i guess it's more a "like" button
21:53:57  <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JCXVabJ.png <- www.openttd.org only, 5 minute resolution
21:54:18  <frosch123> some people are member of 10+ github orgs
21:54:32  <frosch123> no idea what a "github org" means in that content. sound like a facebook friend
21:54:51  <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JCXVvQu.png <- in case anyone wonders if it is "normal" around this time of day :P
21:54:57  <TrueBrain> frosch123: very odd
21:55:29  <frosch123> i guess if we care, we can kick them out after a year of inactivity
21:55:35  <frosch123> not sure whether i care though :p
21:55:49  <SpComb> hey are they playing *that* map
21:55:58  <SpComb> there's more towns than the original, though
21:56:16  <LordAro> which map?
21:56:25  <andythenorth_> I am mostly troubled by old FIRS :( That sand pit :(
21:56:29  <frosch123> the german tt forums used to be very proud of kicking out users with 0 posts. and always compared their pure member numbers with the "inflated" ones from tt-forums :p
21:56:42  <LordAro> i don't have the bandwidth :(
21:57:10  <TrueBrain> the name of your sex-tape?
21:57:43  <LordAro> bad TB
21:57:48  <TrueBrain> :D
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21:57:54  <frosch123> why are there 3 people on screen, but only 2 in the subject?
21:58:08  <TrueBrain> I wonder when LordAro is joining Discord ...
21:58:41  <frosch123> ah, i see, renaming things is still the most popular thing
21:59:05  <TrueBrain> I am surprised by the spike of traffic tbh; I would expect it to spike for 30 minutes or so, and die off .. but it keeps on going .... :)
21:59:10  <TrueBrain> well, we can handle it, so what-ever :P
21:59:55  <SpComb> autoscaling past one instance yet?
22:00:29  <TrueBrain> There is no pressure on any service yet :)
22:00:41  <TrueBrain> Main website is just nginx with static files
22:02:33  <TrueBrain> okay, no, sorry, the CPU usage doubled .. from 0.4% to 0.8%!
22:02:34  <TrueBrain> :P
22:02:52  <LordAro> TrueBrain: i generally disagree with discord
22:02:54  <SpComb> the orignal TTD came with some pre-made maps/scenarios, one of them was for southwest england / wales and had some of the same towns are the UK map that they're playing now
22:03:36  <TrueBrain> cool you spot that :D
22:08:17  <LordAro> SpComb: ah nice
22:08:28  <LordAro> they're based in bristol, so it makes sense
22:08:40  <LordAro> that was always my favourite TTD map
22:09:21  <frosch123> you mean they use firs only because andy is based in bristol?
22:09:22  <Timberwolf> That and Megarail, 1960 :)
22:10:33  <Timberwolf> I also liked that West Country 90210 had a bunch of signs around the Yate/Chipping Sodbury area denoting the locations of MPS' favoured pubs.
22:13:38  <SpComb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyIfeqF2_aM best reference I could find
22:14:44  <SpComb> I definitely still remember playing that scenario
22:15:32  <Timberwolf> I liked it when I was 13/14 and didn't really know how to play, you could just build Leopard buses between all the towns.
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22:17:11  <Timberwolf> Megarail looked like such an incredible achievement in that context, it's a bit of a shock loading it up these days with huge maps and the #openttdcoop games and going, "oh, it's only 20 or so trains on a tiny jam-prone network"
22:18:32  <SpComb> state of the art :P
22:18:59  <LordAro> no presignals back then :p
22:19:09  <LordAro> that's clearly the only thing holding you back
22:19:23  <SpComb> I must have played it with TTDPatch and DBset, I can still vaugely remember which trains went where
22:20:05  <SpComb> but seeing Weston Super-mare on an openttd stream just instantly triggers those memories :D
22:20:28  <andythenorth_> Timberwolf West Country reboot? o_O
22:20:35  <andythenorth_> I am planning a FIRS economy for it
22:20:40  <andythenorth_> needs a scenario
22:22:15  <Timberwolf> Pointedly build diesel-hydraulics and send screenshots of your heretic activities to BR management.
22:22:49  <SpComb> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Mup0MMBkJA some megarail gameplay
22:23:38  *** jottyfan has quit IRC
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22:25:50  <andythenorth_> how big was megarail map?
22:26:35  <Timberwolf> 256x256
22:26:53  <Timberwolf> It was more enormous on a 486 running at 640x480 :)
22:27:07  <TrueBrain> These good old days
22:27:30  <andythenorth_> crazy talk
22:27:40  <andythenorth_> now I play maps as big as 256x512
22:30:19  <TrueBrain> Omg, can your computer handle that?!
22:30:44  <FLHerne> Well, no, because macOS + OTTD
22:30:51  <frosch123> he has a mac, so not quite
22:31:13  <frosch123> hmm, i see, joke too obvious :)
22:31:51  <andythenorth_> it's not even a joke
22:31:52  *** Wolf01 has quit IRC
22:31:53  <andythenorth_> it can't handle it
22:32:20  <andythenorth_> 100% CPU, fans running, and causes lag on the macOS windowserver
22:33:25  <andythenorth_> used to run 30%-40% on older Core2Duo macs, but i9 is unable to handle it
22:34:41  <andythenorth_> one theory is that the removal of palette support from the graphics subsystem is the cause
22:35:33  <andythenorth_> so now the CPU is doing all the paint, and then trying to move image data to the GPU over a limited bandwidth pipe, I don't know how true any of those guesses were
22:35:35  *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd
22:35:54  * andythenorth_ awaits an M1, which has UMA, and might have 'interesting' performance with OpenTTD
22:39:05  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:39:31  * andythenorth_ drove away frosch again :|
22:39:38  <andythenorth_> or it was bedtime!
22:41:34  <SpComb> I'm quite enjoying myself working with the ESP8266, I've still got 20kB of the 80kB user RAM left to spare
22:42:22  *** Wormnest has quit IRC
22:42:49  <SpComb> I also have the ESP32's, but I can't bring myself to upgrade :<
22:43:41  <andythenorth_> how long does it take to compile OpenTTD? :)
22:45:00  <SpComb> it doesn't self-host
22:46:10  <andythenorth_> definitely bedtime
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