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Log for #openttd on 16th December 2020:
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00:10:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ipatix commented on issue #8313: OpenTTD does not find GM.CAT when named uppercase. https://git.io/JUudP
00:14:36  <_dp_> fwiw I fixed settings in that comment
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01:22:45  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8387: Change: send network error to the server before making an emergency save https://git.io/JLsmp
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02:34:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLslh
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06:00:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLsxb
06:01:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLsxp
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06:51:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] lodewijkadlp opened issue #8389: HDR rendering (12-bit, 16-bit, high brightness) ! https://git.io/JLGT4
06:57:19  <LordAro> wut.
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07:11:51  <LordAro> TrueBrain: should probably add discussions to dorpsgek if they're going to work
07:36:09  <TrueBrain> As I said to frosch123 when he said the same: we accept PRs :)
07:38:24  <TrueBrain> But otherwise I will give that a look this weekend or so :)
07:39:54  <LordAro> :p
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11:07:50  <andythenorth> it's oh so quiet
11:07:57  * andythenorth frantically making html
11:08:00  <andythenorth> with many tpyos
11:08:09  <andythenorth> broke prod live yesterday oof :|
11:12:29  <Timberwolf> Replace it with web OpenTTD. We can do that now.
11:14:35  <andythenorth> yes!
11:14:38  <andythenorth> might have some issues
11:14:44  <andythenorth> does OpenTTD have a podcast player yet?
11:15:33  <Timberwolf> "sorry our site gave you a 503, but you can watch Timberwolf do awful things to horses instead"
11:16:27  <andythenorth> that sounds like something from Amsterdam
11:16:32  <andythenorth> let's not go there
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13:21:49  <andythenorth> groundhog *month* ? :P
13:26:54  <Samu> hi
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13:39:32  <andythenorth> do we need a discussion thread like groundhog, but for daylength?
13:44:41  <glx> no, daylength is asking for troubles
13:45:20  <andythenorth> maybe, and I think it's not viable
13:45:30  <andythenorth> but I don't know of anyone place that sets it out as a clear problem
13:45:35  <andythenorth> problems can be solved
13:45:55  <andythenorth> or are intractable :P
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14:55:40  <supermop_Home> andythenorth i think its just 2-4 different clear problems
14:55:55  <supermop_Home> and 2-6 desired solutions
15:00:02  <andythenorth> can we write them out, under headings?
15:00:04  <andythenorth> rationally?
15:04:19  <supermop_Home> probably
15:05:00  <supermop_Home> you'd need one person with the focus to do that who also holds an empathetic understanding of each of them
15:08:23  <Timberwolf> Yes, and I don't think anyone has ever made the distinction between e.g. "I want a slower scaled game with proportionately smaller cargo production" vs. "I want the same game, but with slower technology progression"
15:10:26  <andythenorth> nobody has written into a stable public place
15:10:32  <andythenorth> it has been said a few times in forums or here
15:11:27  <andythenorth> the second goal I could understand better
15:11:41  <andythenorth> the first goal I haven't found understanding of
15:13:15  <nielsm> the first could technically be solved just by making vehicles much faster
15:13:31  <andythenorth> or newgrf industries and houses
15:13:39  <nielsm> yeah with lowered production
15:19:40  <Samu> question: how do i do the squirrel export thing now?
15:20:20  <nielsm> I think it's automatic?
15:21:13  <Samu> hmm okay
15:22:29  <Samu> the auto-generated files are no longer part of the project?
15:22:41  <glx> they are generated at compile time
15:22:51  <Samu> the hpp.sq
15:29:17  <Samu> ah, found it, it's in the out\build\ folder
15:32:14  <Samu> Git integration on Visual Studio changed again. It still doesn't have a force push. If it has a rebase, why won't they also have a force push
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15:39:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLnvm
15:56:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8354: Feature: Train speed adaption. https://git.io/JLnkZ
16:03:57  <andythenorth> https://openoffice.apache.org/docs/governance/lazyConsensus.html
16:12:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick opened pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ
16:18:34  <Samu> the preview.openttd.org is pretty
16:18:42  <Samu> but it crashes when starting an ai
16:21:05  <LordAro> Samu: nice find
16:21:10  <LordAro> TrueBrain: bug!
16:22:43  <LordAro> newgrfs work, so it's not just downloaded content
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16:32:26  <FLHerne> How about GS?
16:33:42  <LordAro> FLHerne: same
16:33:55  <LordAro> there's no crash info, unfortuantely
16:34:01  <TrueBrain> Pfft, who uses AIs anyway! (Which is only funny because I wrote the framework :D)
16:34:14  <TrueBrain> LordAro: in console should be snippets
16:34:36  <LordAro> TrueBrain: nothing except a numeric code
16:34:37  <FLHerne> How do I preview.openttd.org? Just that URL is a blank screen
16:34:53  <LordAro> https://preview.openttd.org/pr8234/ this one
16:35:11  <LordAro> i already poked TB about giving preview a listing homepage :p
16:35:31  <FLHerne> Got it
16:35:54  <FLHerne> Oh, there's a custom loading screen now :-)
16:36:30  <TrueBrain> Which is not going to happen :)
16:36:36  <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh wait, there is something of value now
16:36:40  <LordAro> there wasn't before, promise
16:36:44  <TrueBrain> There is no autolisting
16:36:51  <TrueBrain> On S3
16:37:01  <TrueBrain> So ... empty page is best I can do :)
16:37:39  <LordAro> actually, this output still looks unhelpful
16:39:12  <LordAro> TrueBrain: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/p/kwPnf3dpnN/
16:40:31  <milek7> if I have [STDC_BOOL] declared as var = network.something
16:40:40  <milek7> what is required to make it appear in settings window?
16:50:08  <nielsm> putting it in the settings_gui.cpp file somewhere, as far as I remember
16:52:19  <TrueBrain> LordAro: that looks very obvious? Something is wrong with a translation string? First line? What am I missing :D
16:52:58  <milek7> that's just warning, probably something else crashes
16:53:04  <TrueBrain> I am surprised it shows functionnames in the back trace :D
16:54:14  <TrueBrain> I will have to check myself when I am back home in that case :)
16:54:55  <glx> milek7: GetSettingsTree() I guess
16:58:43  <milek7> ok
17:01:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] btzy commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLnWr
17:26:35  <LordAro> TrueBrain: looks like just a warning to me
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17:39:29  <TrueBrain> Too slowwww
17:39:32  <TrueBrain> :p
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17:59:48  <TrueBrain> LordAro: btw, I was thinking, I could use the root URL for the nightly OpenTTD .. at least is better than an empty page I guess
18:01:00  <LordAro> TrueBrain: could do
18:01:14  <LordAro> assuming we think hosting such a version is a good idea
18:01:29  <TrueBrain> I kinda want to put it on the frontpage :P :D
18:01:37  <TrueBrain> hmm, console also doesn't work with Chrome, funny
18:01:48  <TrueBrain> I tested many things, but not those :D
18:08:27  <TrueBrain> gratz andythenorth , on stimulating a constructive conversation on Discord today :) That was a fine read :D
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18:12:26  <TrueBrain> "Exception catching is disabled, this exception cannot be caught. Compile with -s DISABLE_EXCEPTION_CATCHING=0 or DISABLE_EXCEPTION_CATCHING=2 to catch" <- is it me .. or is that weird? :D
18:12:30  <TrueBrain> set it to 0 to enable? :P
18:12:55  <milek7> it's "DISABLE"
18:13:14  <milek7> better question is, what 2 does :D
18:13:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #7028: Feature: Option to group vehicle list by shared orders https://git.io/JLn2x
18:13:44  <TrueBrain> yes ... DISABLE=0
18:13:53  <TrueBrain> it is weird
18:14:04  <TrueBrain> and no clue what 2 does, the documentation doesn't mention it :P
18:14:14  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/emscripten-core/emscripten/blob/master/src/settings.js#L564
18:14:17  <TrueBrain> first place that documents it
18:14:19  <TrueBrain> .. lol
18:18:37  <TrueBrain> so you enable the catching again, and it still doesn't capture it :D
18:18:40  <TrueBrain> THIS IS NOT USEFUL :P
18:20:02  <milek7> debug build, -s ASSERTIONS=1 -s EXCEPTION_DEBUG=1 -s DISABLE_EXCEPTION_CATCHING=0
18:20:08  <milek7> that should help?
18:21:14  <TrueBrain> lol... it shows the backtrace, then tells you it failed to capture the throw
18:21:19  <TrueBrain> anyyywwaaaayyyyy
18:21:27  <TrueBrain> script_controller.cpp:123
18:21:31  <TrueBrain> at least I have a line :)
18:22:14  <TrueBrain> throw sq_throwerror(vm, error);
18:24:45  <TrueBrain> so we have 2 bugs :D
18:24:52  <TrueBrain> 1) emscripten doesn't handle throws
18:25:01  <TrueBrain> 2) for some reason the library cannot be loaded :)
18:30:50  <andythenorth> what a long day of html today was
18:31:01  <andythenorth> maybe I stop now
18:31:45  <TrueBrain> do something fun!
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18:32:28  <andythenorth> it got results, but yes
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18:32:56  <andythenorth> the speedrun chat in discord is amusing
18:33:05  <andythenorth> I have no idea what is going on, but it seems funny
18:33:34  <TrueBrain> what ... are you doing? :D
18:36:54  <TrueBrain> okay, when building without disabling exception (this is so annoying to write like that :P), at least it shows the error in the AI window :D
18:37:01  <TrueBrain> does need some finetuning, but we can do that
18:37:44  <glx> oh of course AI/GS heavily relies on exceptions IIRC
18:39:33  <andythenorth> Discuss! https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/8388
18:40:01  <TrueBrain> glx: yes, yes it does :)
18:42:27  <TrueBrain> the whole reason it works is because there is a constant flow of Suspend throws :P
18:43:05  <TrueBrain> pathfinder.road.4 is downloaded, AI wants pathfinder.road.3, and cannot find it
18:43:09  <TrueBrain> well, that somewhat makes sense, I guess
18:43:28  <LordAro> andythenorth: i should ban you for making a '+1' comment
18:43:33  <LordAro> that's exactly what the reaction things are for!
18:44:48  <andythenorth> 'ban' is a bit "0->100 quickly"
18:44:50  <andythenorth> we need gifs
18:45:14  <TrueBrain> give you a firm slap on the head? :D
18:46:08  <andythenorth> what even are reactions?
18:46:23  <TrueBrain> after I downloaded pathfinder.road.3 myself, which shows in the list of course because it is a dependency, it did work
18:46:37  <TrueBrain> so it seems the content download did not download dependencies correctly
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18:47:11  <TrueBrain> neither does it on Linux :o
18:47:26  <TrueBrain> but .. then it should not work on Linux too, which it does :P
18:49:45  <TrueBrain> also on Linux this is an issue
18:50:03  <TrueBrain> so although 1) is an emscripten specific problem, 2) is not
18:51:07  <TrueBrain> but ONLY if I add a debug print on Linux, it crashes in the same way
18:51:11  <TrueBrain> otherwise it just loads the wrong library
18:51:33  <TrueBrain> righhhhttt ... I think we have a bug in the script loading code :D
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18:52:12  <TrueBrain> LordAro: for 50 points, can I interest you in a WTF IS THE COMPILER DOING THIS TIME? :D
18:52:32  <TrueBrain> well, 2 bugs honestly .. 1) dependencies are not downloaded correctly (wrong version)
18:52:40  <TrueBrain> 2) newer versions are loaded while not requested
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18:57:34  <TrueBrain> ah, it is not related to my debug statement, it is just RNG
18:57:57  <TrueBrain> sometimes it does run "ScriptController::Import", sometimes it doesn't ..
18:58:41  <TrueBrain> which is pretty impressive, given it is the first line in the main.nut
18:59:31  <TrueBrain> so a timing bug too
18:59:32  <TrueBrain> great
18:59:37  <TrueBrain> not for me to debug, not today :)
18:59:49  <TrueBrain> I will see about the catch{} stuff this weekend or sot :)
19:00:24  <LordAro> ooh fun
19:00:36  <TrueBrain> yeah ... I think I just file a bug-report, honestly :)
19:01:04  <TrueBrain> but something strange is happening :D
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19:01:28  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8386 <- quick round of votes, anyone against max-load of 0 or max-load of 2B?
19:03:03  <TrueBrain> very curious how long it takes before we get a bug report: I start with 0 money!!!! :D
19:03:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 opened pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig
19:03:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLni2
19:03:52  <LordAro> i was about to ask why the regression sav has its results changed
19:03:55  <LordAro> but then i read a bit more
19:04:09  <TrueBrain> you missed a mind-fuck yesterday :)
19:04:45  <frosch123> are the int64 correct? or should they be Money?
19:04:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLnid
19:06:01  <andythenorth> \o/
19:06:16  <andythenorth> ha PR count is up though :)
19:06:24  <andythenorth> lol 'contributions' :)
19:07:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8387: Change: send network error to the server before making an emergency save https://git.io/JLnPC
19:09:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnPP
19:09:46  <TrueBrain> LordAro: lol, I just also checked that :P
19:09:55  <LordAro> ^^
19:11:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnXv
19:15:11  <TrueBrain> LordAro: OpenTTD still does {} when things are not on the same line as "if", right?
19:15:14  <TrueBrain> (even for one-liners)
19:16:09  <TrueBrain> owh, you already mentioned that, sorry :D
19:16:11  <TrueBrain> sloowwwwww
19:16:57  <LordAro> :)
19:17:11  <LordAro> if (foo) single_statement();
19:17:28  <LordAro> if (foo) {\nmultiple();\nstatements();\n}
19:17:40  <TrueBrain> good :)
19:18:38  <andythenorth> can we clear out any 'probably nots'?
19:18:44  * andythenorth livestream!
19:20:00  <TrueBrain> milek7: from your description, but I would have to look into the code, it sounds like your "pubkey" just acts like a secret
19:20:38  <milek7> it's more like username
19:21:11  <milek7> and during connecting to server you must prove you can sign something with matching privatekey
19:21:24  <TrueBrain> okay, yeah, that is not that clear in your words, hence me asking :)
19:21:33  <TrueBrain> you should always sign something with what only you know
19:21:39  <TrueBrain> what the other side can validate that only you signed :)
19:21:40  <TrueBrain> good
19:22:10  <TrueBrain> but this can be a lingo issue :D
19:22:45  <TrueBrain> so "secret_key" is private_key?
19:22:59  <milek7> yes
19:23:01  <TrueBrain> (not debating how to call it, just so we talk the same words :D)
19:23:37  <TrueBrain> as if there is one thing I learnt from working for a cyber security company for 6 years ... it is easy to write encryption, it is MUCH EASIER to fuck it up :P
19:24:18  <TrueBrain> I literally have seen people sending their pubkey + challenge back, without signing anything
19:24:22  <TrueBrain> thinking it was secure :P
19:24:36  <TrueBrain> or, having the server with a private key, while authenticating clients
19:24:38  <TrueBrain> that was fun too!
19:24:55  <TrueBrain> the horror stories ... right, focus ..
19:24:58  <milek7> server sends 16 random bytes, client signs them and returns its pubkey and signature
19:24:59  <milek7> server verifies if signature is valid for given pubkey and random data it sent earlier
19:25:17  <TrueBrain> cool!
19:25:50  <TrueBrain> signature == signing, I assume?
19:25:54  <TrueBrain> yes, we covered that
19:25:55  <TrueBrain> cool
19:26:32  <TrueBrain> (people tend to confuse digests with signing, hence the maybe stupid question :D)
19:27:29  <TrueBrain> how does it handle you setting a company password after it also has a pubkey protection?
19:27:50  <milek7> it does have both
19:27:53  <milek7> and requires either one to join
19:27:58  <TrueBrain> nice:)
19:28:03  <milek7> (if pubkey doesn't match, you can still try to enter password)
19:28:21  <TrueBrain> why is there a string "KEYAUTH" in there .. what does that do ... hmm
19:29:06  <milek7> https://github.com/jedisct1/libhydrogen/wiki/Contexts
19:30:24  <TrueBrain> not clear to me if it is a nonce or not, but meh, doesn't really matter in our context
19:31:46  <TrueBrain> ah, no, it is not
19:31:46  <TrueBrain> cool
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19:33:27  <TrueBrain> it uses Curve25519 .. so DH .. so .. we can also encrypt communication between client/server this way? :D
19:34:20  <milek7> we could ;p
19:34:35  <milek7> there's encryption and dedicated key-exchange api in this
19:35:18  <TrueBrain> cool :)
19:35:36  <TrueBrain> and again, sorry if the questions sound stupid to you; but I don't know your background, and if you copy/pasted this together or know what you are doing :P
19:35:44  <TrueBrain> occupational hazard ;)
19:35:59  <milek7> of course I copy-pasted this :P
19:36:45  <TrueBrain> I wanted to throw in an insult to another user of this channel, but I refrained :)
19:38:08  <frosch123> starts with X ?
19:38:20  <TrueBrain> no, insulting Xaroth I do without issue
19:38:27  <TrueBrain> our PeterT replacement
19:38:42  <Xaroth> ....
19:38:45  <frosch123> ah, also starts with X sometimes
19:40:28  <TrueBrain> milek7: looks nice on the surface; haven't looked into yet where you leave your secrets, but that will come :)
19:40:48  <TrueBrain> no clue how we rate another 3rdparty library, but it is rather small, so meh
19:41:30  <milek7> any comment on 'Implications and further changes' paragraph?
19:42:32  <TrueBrain> more keys -> no comments at this stage; there are 2 roads from a PR like this, how I see it
19:42:48  <TrueBrain> either server tracks "last name" with pubkeys, store that in savegame, so you can manage who can access your company
19:42:54  <TrueBrain> or we bounce it via a centralized server
19:43:04  <TrueBrain> basically, this is the cheap variant of the ssl library I have been wanting ;)
19:43:54  <TrueBrain> privacy concerns -> yes and no, depends on ^^
19:44:01  <TrueBrain> you can just generate a key per server you join
19:44:11  <TrueBrain> makes it completely anonymous
19:46:08  <milek7> I have this idea with sharing pubkey with other clients, so you could have cross-server friends list etc.
19:46:10  <milek7> there's slight privacy issue but meh, it's like username in any other game
19:46:53  <milek7> and there would be that 'privacy' option with keys generated for specific server
19:47:10  <TrueBrain> with a "centralized" server idea, you can have a true friends list (again, not really centralized .. a connected group of servers, is a better word :D)
19:47:35  <TrueBrain> it also means you can bind a username to a pubkey
19:47:40  <TrueBrain> which solves SO MANY ISSUES server admins have
19:48:59  <TrueBrain> (in regards to faking you are someone else :P)
19:55:12  <milek7> about codestyle..
19:55:17  <milek7> if (keypair_file == nullptr) or if (!keypair_file)
19:56:12  <TrueBrain> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Development/Coding%20style doesn't seem to mention that :P
19:56:44  <TrueBrain> but explicit for implicit, so the first, I think :)
19:56:51  <TrueBrain> LordAro knows :P
19:57:48  <TrueBrain> never assume nullptr is 0 :P :D
19:57:56  <TrueBrain> is this fixed in specs by now, that it is 0?
19:59:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLnHz
20:00:07  <frosch123> we no longer follow that rule. it's a C rule, that came out of fashion in c++
20:00:15  <milek7> "A prvalue of arithmetic, unscoped enumeration, pointer, or pointer to member type can be converted to a prvalue of type bool. A zero value, null pointer value, or null member pointer value is converted to false; any other value is converted to true."
20:00:58  <LordAro> milek7: i tend to prefer explicit null checks
20:01:14  <LordAro> it does work, and it is defined to work, but it's still confusing
20:01:16  <TrueBrain> milek7: wow .. well, that is an improvement :)
20:01:54  <frosch123> TrueBrain: that is a c argument. c++ is type-strict and does an implicit conversion to bool, when needed
20:02:18  <TrueBrain> just to repeat myself: that is an improvement :)
20:02:35  <TrueBrain> (not sure what was a C argument .. that it is an improvement? Not sure :D)
20:02:55  <frosch123> in C everything is an int
20:03:21  <LordAro> or an array
20:03:43  <LordAro> (of ints)
20:04:43  <frosch123> only in C you find stuff like "if (!intbool1 == !intbool2)" or  "int safebool = !!intbool;"
20:04:43  <TrueBrain> well, strictly seen that is a pointer to a piece of memory :P
20:05:12  <frosch123> TrueBrain: haha, no :) with that interpretation you get undefined behaviour
20:05:19  <TrueBrain> welcome to C!
20:05:20  <TrueBrain> :D
20:05:20  * LordAro regularly finds things like "boolVal != false" in C++ at work
20:05:41  <TrueBrain> in any language ... beginner Python programmers do that a lot too :(
20:06:08  <frosch123> LordAro: yeah, you can only make that worse with "return boolval ? true : false"
20:06:50  <LordAro> we have those too
20:06:53  <TrueBrain> never sure what is worse: "return var ? true : false" or "return !!var"
20:07:00  <TrueBrain> (where var is anything, not only bools)
20:07:14  <LordAro> if (boolval) { return true; } else { return false; }
20:07:17  <frosch123> yeah !! is C in a nutshell :)
20:07:28  <LordAro> also JS and other loosely typed languages
20:07:32  <TrueBrain> but "return" has the same function, basically :P So I am never really sure :)
20:07:35  <TrueBrain> but I like C :D
20:07:39  <frosch123> LordAro: now you are paid by lines of code :)
20:07:41  <TrueBrain> I do not understand C++ :(
20:08:03  <frosch123> not understanding c++ is no excuse to like c
20:08:27  <TrueBrain> I never said that :) That is your interpretation ;)
20:08:46  <TrueBrain> I like C. And, completely unrelated, I do not understand C++
20:09:06  <frosch123> well "liking C" is just wrong :)
20:09:09  <TrueBrain> it is just annoying that most people assume: you know C? Owh, here is a C++ program, can you debug?
20:09:36  <frosch123> oh, don't worry, people also claim the reverse :)
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20:09:37  <TrueBrain> Well, you know I am not completely there, so that is no surprise I hope :P
20:09:54  <TrueBrain> well, I guess if you can read C++ syntax, you at least know what the C code reads
20:10:01  <TrueBrain> I have C++ constructs, I am like: WTF DOES THIS DO!?
20:10:13  <frosch123> to quote kate gregory: when people say you should learn C before learning C++, do they mean you should also learn modula2 first? :)
20:10:27  <TrueBrain> that really is bullshit, to learn C before C++
20:10:28  <TrueBrain> lolz
20:10:34  <TrueBrain> which idiots say that? :D
20:11:01  <frosch123> TrueBrain: if you think c++ people can do c, then you never saw a c++ guy trying to use zero-terminated strings or data
20:11:13  <TrueBrain> owh, char[] ofc
20:11:14  <LordAro> might have been worthwhile 20 years ago
20:11:15  <TrueBrain> fair point
20:11:19  <TrueBrain> if you only ever used std::string
20:11:21  <LordAro> but C++ has moved on
20:11:34  <TrueBrain> okay, I will adjust my opinion now :D
20:11:34  <FLHerne> Well, unfortunately almost all of C is a subset of C++, so you really can't learn the latter without the former
20:11:38  * FLHerne looks at grfcodec
20:11:40  <TrueBrain> C++ people are just an island :P
20:12:14  <frosch123> TrueBrain: for some reason i had to deal with multiple people who implemented some serialisation-like code in c++. they are wrote unterminated strings, and were confused that the decoding failed
20:12:38  <TrueBrain> I guess you also have to know less and less what pointers really are?
20:12:49  <TrueBrain> "the compiler warns you if I have to add a &"? :D
20:13:09  <TrueBrain> in Rust, you mostly need to understand when it copies and when it doesn't (by-ref or by-value, basically)
20:13:13  <TrueBrain> which is pretty nice
20:13:51  <LordAro> TrueBrain: tbf, a lot of my Rust is adding & or * until it works
20:13:59  <TrueBrain> to give an example that I as C programmer am like: WUTH?!, one that cracks me up: "for (auto &s : sockets) {"
20:14:12  <LordAro> ^^
20:14:20  <TrueBrain> LordAro: not saying it isn't, most mentioning you no longer need to understand pointers and memory allocation really :)
20:14:35  <LordAro> that's fair, yeah
20:14:50  <TrueBrain> well, you have lifetime in return for that, but okay
20:15:30  <TrueBrain> owh, one I ran into with emscripten that made me look up what was going on: "for (ContentInfo *ci : *cv) delete ci;"
20:16:10  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i designed the programming test for the job interview at my old company. https://dpaste.org/O4zM was one of the tests
20:16:25  <frosch123> all tests were added due to experience with previous hires
20:16:39  <TrueBrain> wow ..., that is a nice test, honestly :)
20:17:37  <frosch123> there were plenty of people who worked for > 5 years, and still failed it
20:17:43  * LordAro tells the Big Boss that to run a powershell script he needs to not quote the filename
20:17:59  <frosch123> they just write A, and when it crashes they ask a coworker
20:18:13  <TrueBrain> null pointer exception, enjoy debugging :D
20:18:22  <TrueBrain> and if you don't know, it is really difficult to know what is causing it
20:18:33  <TrueBrain> you really have to understand pointers, stack, etc
20:18:36  <frosch123> TrueBrain: not null pointer, uninitialised pointer :)
20:18:41  <LordAro> frosch123: depends on the function !
20:18:42  <TrueBrain> if it is on the stack it is 0 :P
20:18:55  <TrueBrain> if it is in the heap ... well, yes :)
20:18:57  <LordAro> some functions would initialise the pointer for you ;)
20:19:16  <frosch123> since when are stack variables zero initialised?
20:19:22  <frosch123> is that some security compiler option?
20:20:27  <FLHerne> People fail this? I should apply for some C jobs :p
20:20:44  <TrueBrain> frosch123: no, you are right; it is only true for static variables ofc :)
20:20:51  <TrueBrain> what ever went into the bss :)
20:21:07  <LordAro> FLHerne: is that really what you want though? :p
20:21:10  <frosch123> yeah, the program loaded zeros stuff :)
20:21:11  <TrueBrain> so non-static globals are 0 too
20:21:23  <TrueBrain> which is a lovely mindfuck sometimes .. people moving a global to a local
20:21:26  <TrueBrain> and poef, it is no longer 0
20:22:05  <frosch123> FLHerne: you get that at any company older than 30 years
20:22:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] jostephd commented on pull request #8278: Feature: tiles/day velocity unit https://git.io/JLndL
20:23:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8387: Change: send network error to the server before making an emergency save https://git.io/JLsmp
20:23:29  <frosch123> TrueBrain: what is a non-static global? did you mean non-const?
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20:23:50  <TrueBrain> "int a;" outside a function
20:23:59  <TrueBrain> not the word "static" in front of it :)
20:24:10  <frosch123> ah, so an external variable
20:24:34  <frosch123> but static and external have the same initialisation
20:24:38  <TrueBrain> no, not external
20:24:40  <TrueBrain> non-static :)
20:24:49  <TrueBrain> they don't have to be defined anywhere else
20:25:00  <TrueBrain> what is that online compiler thing LordAro ? :)
20:25:04  <frosch123> godbolt
20:25:19  <frosch123> https://godbolt.org/
20:25:20  <FLHerne> LordAro: Yeah, C code generally does interesting stuff
20:25:37  <TrueBrain> https://godbolt.org/z/43h53G
20:25:44  <TrueBrain> non-static global, is what I mean :)
20:25:54  <TrueBrain> no clue if it is also external btw .. might :P
20:25:56  <LordAro> godbolt is love, godbolt is life
20:25:59  <TrueBrain> but there is no "extern" there too
20:26:06  <LordAro> FLHerne: you're not wrong there
20:26:13  <frosch123> TrueBrain: it is "extern"
20:26:20  <TrueBrain> but not defined anywhere
20:26:24  <TrueBrain> weeeiiirrrrddddd
20:26:25  <frosch123> "extern" is the default for global scope
20:26:37  <TrueBrain> I always learned you had to define an "extern" variable too :P
20:26:46  <frosch123> TrueBrain: ok, you only defined it :)
20:26:48  <TrueBrain> https://godbolt.org/z/344cz9
20:26:51  <TrueBrain> doesn't compile :(
20:27:16  <TrueBrain> but anyway, that type of global :D
20:27:24  <frosch123> yes, but that is also zero
20:27:30  <TrueBrain> yup
20:27:32  <TrueBrain> but ...
20:27:37  <TrueBrain> https://godbolt.org/z/6rEraY
20:27:41  <TrueBrain> doesn't -have to-
20:27:51  <TrueBrain> (is in this way of using, as .. stack is zero'd)
20:28:07  <TrueBrain> (at startup)
20:28:09  <TrueBrain> mostly :P
20:28:11  <TrueBrain> depends on compiler
20:28:12  <TrueBrain> :D
20:28:18  <TrueBrain> okay, this C nonsense has to stop!
20:28:29  <frosch123> well, i still disagree with you
20:28:53  <TrueBrain> on startup, the memory is most of the time wiped
20:29:00  <TrueBrain> I don't mean that the stack is zero'd on call
20:29:21  <LordAro> std::unique_ptr<User> tb = std::make_unique(TrueBrain);
20:29:33  <frosch123> it's not "most of the time". the linker explicitly states what memory sections to load from disk, and which to zero
20:29:34  <TrueBrain> I mean, run the above godbolt as often as you want
20:29:45  <TrueBrain> well, I don't know if the compiler optimizes this :D
20:29:58  <frosch123> run ldd on your exectuable, and it will tell you
20:30:02  <TrueBrain> we say the same thing I think frosch123  :)
20:31:45  <TrueBrain> https://godbolt.org/z/rddsca <- this "b" is non-zero, to be clear :D
20:32:46  <frosch123> https://godbolt.org/z/4Pn9ff <- but this one is
20:32:56  <TrueBrain> static locals are, yes :)
20:33:36  <TrueBrain> but I mentioned that 10 minutes ago :) As I said, we mean the same thing, but something something, language :)
20:35:03  <frosch123> https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/storage_duration <- problem is that "static" means a lot of things. but stuf with "static storage duration" is initialised, independent of internal/external linkage
20:36:05  <TrueBrain> either way, it gives a lot of lovely bugs if people are like: this code can be made easier! And move around variables and/or add static ... it is fun :D
20:36:08  <TrueBrain> it makes C interesting!
20:37:19  <TrueBrain> can godbolt also show what it put in what segment, like bss, data, etc?
20:37:28  <TrueBrain> or is b.0 just bss, etc?
20:38:00  <frosch123> haha, the worst bug i ever found was: programmer A copies a checksum/hash-algorithm from a textbook somewhen in early 90s. it's that kind of algorith that shifts and ors bytes while doing modulo with a prime
20:38:34  <frosch123> then programmer B comes around: this modulo is slow, i move it outside the loop. i am so proud of this optimisation that i put my name into the code
20:39:02  <frosch123> (hint: this "optimisation" made the checksum/hash only consider the last 8 bytes)
20:39:09  <TrueBrain> and the "module" was no longer prime :P
20:39:27  <frosch123> nah, they did not change to modulo
20:39:39  <TrueBrain> I meant byte-wrapping as "module" :)
20:39:45  <TrueBrain> byte-overflow?
20:40:27  <frosch123> they just did "result = 0; for (b : buffer) { result = result << 8 | b } return result % magic;"
20:40:56  <TrueBrain> my "joke" was that it still does module, only with UINT32_MAX :P
20:41:07  <TrueBrain> or-what-ever-the-size-is
20:41:12  <frosch123> too complicated for me :)
20:41:19  <TrueBrain> yeah, I am sorry :)
20:41:48  <frosch123> but they had already left the company, so i could not confront them :)
20:42:07  <TrueBrain> but this is why I like C!
20:42:27  <TrueBrain> it is easier to make bugs :P C++ starts to warn you about it
20:42:32  <TrueBrain> "did you mean blablabla"
20:42:34  <TrueBrain> well, not in your example
20:42:35  <glx> C can do nasty things :)
20:42:37  <TrueBrain> but you get what I mean :)
20:42:56  <glx> especially when you don't know what you're doing
20:44:01  <TrueBrain> (okay, in all fairness, I hate that I never learnt C++, and never took the time to learn it; but sssttttt)
20:44:01  <glx> c++ does minimum checking
20:44:40  <glx> oh I still don't fully understand templates (I can't read yapf)
20:44:49  <TrueBrain> NOBODY can read YAPF
20:44:52  <TrueBrain> it ... exists
20:44:55  <TrueBrain> and therefor it is
20:45:51  <glx> but many c++ things are not too hard to read
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20:46:10  <TrueBrain> reading is fine, the writing is the problem
20:46:17  <TrueBrain> like ... how do you come up with it :P
20:46:53  <glx> usually I open cppreference, and look for something in std that could work
20:47:39  <glx> I'm still surprised there's no getopt stuff in std c++
20:47:40  <TrueBrain> you have all those "for" constructs, "const" is used a lot more in many .. weird ways, by-value calls are more common, which are not always by-value, it is really confusing to me :D
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20:47:44  <TrueBrain> but so was erlang :P
20:48:45  <TrueBrain> ever tried Erlang frosch123 ? I am really curious if you can write Erlang :D
20:51:05  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLnAl
20:51:09  <frosch123> no, but i think my brother had a university teacher who was involved with that
20:51:26  <TrueBrain> I noticed my brain cannot think in a function construct
20:51:38  <frosch123> but i got the impression that none of the students took him serious while talking about it
20:51:39  <TrueBrain> which is funny to me, as it shows limits of my brain :)
20:51:47  <frosch123> or maybe that was just my brother
20:51:54  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/rocky-linux/rocky <- well, that did not take long .. founder of CentOS makes CentOS alternative ...
20:52:05  <frosch123> TrueBrain: clojure is the hipster functional language
20:52:37  <TrueBrain> owh, my bad ..
20:52:39  <TrueBrain> I just gave up on it
20:52:53  <frosch123> huh? what changed with centos? isn't "centos" just redhat without support?
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20:53:17  <TrueBrain> you missed the CentOS QQ?
20:53:24  <frosch123> yes
20:53:26  <TrueBrain> owh, the read ... let me see if I can still find the articles
20:53:47  <TrueBrain> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25345428
20:53:55  <TrueBrain> in other words: CentOS is dead
20:53:59  <TrueBrain> CentOS Stream is ... "something"
20:54:36  <TrueBrain> or https://www.servethehome.com/red-hat-goes-full-ibm-and-says-farewell-to-centos/
20:54:39  <TrueBrain> has pictures
20:56:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JLnx3
20:56:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8386: Change: extend the allowed range for max loan setting https://git.io/JL3Mx
20:57:13  <TrueBrain> people went completely apeshit over this, it was so much fun :D
20:57:31  <TrueBrain> so a reboot of CentOS is just hilarious :)
20:58:14  <frosch123> ok, so centos is mysql, and rocky is the new mariadb?
20:58:24  <TrueBrain> it seems so :D
20:58:27  <TrueBrain> nice comparison :)
20:58:48  <frosch123> well, someone has to annoy me about making stuff that that compiles with gcc 4.8
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20:59:13  <TrueBrain> why .. is someone still using 4.8?
20:59:18  <TrueBrain> do we want to know? :D
20:59:51  <frosch123> 4.8 is the standard compiler on centos/rhel 7
21:00:02  <Samu> Quick question: are you planning to release 1.10.4 soon or not really? Asking because I could use AIPriorityQueue on my AI
21:00:03  <frosch123> (maybe i confuse it with 6, but pretty sure it is 7)
21:00:10  <TrueBrain> https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/gcc-4.8 <- it is still in bionic :o
21:00:32  <frosch123> it just about supports c++11, though not officially
21:00:49  <TrueBrain> dammnnnnn
21:01:29  <TrueBrain> CentOS 6 uses GCC 4, it seems ..
21:01:30  <TrueBrain> damn
21:01:41  <frosch123> i like to say: comparing windows with linux is hard :) debian is 5 years ahead of windows, but rhel is 10 years behind debian, so 5 years behind windows
21:01:50  <TrueBrain> CentOS 7 too
21:02:10  <TrueBrain> haha :)
21:02:11  <frosch123> centos 7 is about windows vista. it comes with a completely broken gnome
21:02:19  <TrueBrain> I tend to forgot how "stable" CentOS is, with a cost :)
21:02:34  <frosch123> though i am not sure whether gnome 3 exists in any other state than "completely broken"
21:02:37  <TrueBrain> (it really is stable btw, that "" was not to insult the stableness)
21:02:44  <TrueBrain> haha
21:02:52  <glx> stability is nice, but sometimes it's too much
21:03:09  <TrueBrain> it reminds me of those server-graphs, of which one was "uptime"
21:03:14  <TrueBrain> in early 2000 that was common
21:03:20  <TrueBrain> my server is up for 3 years now!
21:03:23  <TrueBrain> like .... not something to be happy about
21:03:40  <TrueBrain> CentOS feels like that for me :)
21:03:40  <frosch123> TrueBrain: i would have less issues with it, if people would use it only for servers without frontend
21:03:51  <TrueBrain> wait, CentOS has another market ?
21:03:57  <TrueBrain> I thought it was only for servers :P
21:04:00  <frosch123> but for some reason companies get the idea that software should be developed on desktops using the same os version as the servers
21:04:11  <TrueBrain> owh my ....
21:04:13  <frosch123> and there is probably no worse choice than centos for a desktop
21:04:26  <glx> poor users
21:04:33  <TrueBrain> well, I am slowly looking around what my new challenge in life is going to be, and I would hate to find myself joining such company :p
21:04:36  <frosch123> (rhel on customer servers, centos in-house)
21:04:41  <TrueBrain> I should make a list of questions which makes them go: WTF DUDE?!
21:05:01  <TrueBrain> "Which OS do your workstations use?"
21:05:04  <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you want the job at that insurance company that i declined?
21:05:06  <TrueBrain> sounds like a good question to ask :D
21:05:10  <TrueBrain> no
21:05:16  <TrueBrain> :D I don't want your seconds :P
21:05:22  <frosch123> it's well payed, you only have to work 2 hours a day, and pretend the other 6
21:05:32  <TrueBrain> is it that bad? Haha :)
21:06:10  <TrueBrain> I am honestly really annoyed by the amount of places you can apply to ... in the range I am looking for (km away from home, salary, role), there are over 300 jobs I can apply to
21:06:13  <TrueBrain> like .. this is insane
21:06:15  <frosch123> they were a team of 8 who maintained their in-house insurance management, written in pl1, running on ibm mainframe
21:06:25  <frosch123> (i went there for the lolz, just to have seen it)
21:06:29  <TrueBrain> AS/400? Riigggghhhhhttttt
21:06:46  <TrueBrain> walk .. away .... slowly ... :D
21:06:59  <frosch123> but as i discovered: the whole thing is probably less complex than bananas. you can probably rewrite everything in 6 months in python, and make those 8 fools unemployed
21:07:10  <TrueBrain> haha :D
21:07:13  <TrueBrain> that is evil :P
21:07:29  <TrueBrain> and quit right after
21:08:04  <frosch123> i expected some things when i accepted the interview invitation :) but i did not expect them to do almost nothing
21:08:30  <TrueBrain> as long as everyone joins that doing nothing, it is pretty self sustaining :)
21:08:34  <TrueBrain> I really could not work there ...
21:08:40  <TrueBrain> like .. I would be really annoyed every fucking single day
21:08:43  <frosch123> i kept asking them, what makes their software complex
21:09:09  <frosch123> and their answer was: we have to support all insurance policies that ever existed. but that turned out to be about 20
21:09:58  <TrueBrain> only 20?!
21:10:05  <TrueBrain> well, I know insurance shit is complex
21:10:12  <TrueBrain> but ... 8 FTE complex?
21:10:44  <frosch123> no, it's not complex. it's just that they are all hobby programmers, using tools from 40 years ago
21:11:30  <frosch123> their biggest fear is the december of every year. because then they have to process the annual letters to everyone
21:12:09  <frosch123> oh, i forgot to mention: i would have been the youngest in the team :p
21:12:43  <TrueBrain> yeah, I can see that
21:12:46  <TrueBrain> that explains a lot
21:12:56  <TrueBrain> you are, what, 50 now; so yeah, that makes sense :P
21:13:05  <TrueBrain> (sorry, I had to make an insult to someone this hour; it was too long)
21:13:53  <frosch123> when i am 50, you are 49
21:14:02  <TrueBrain> dammit :( It came right back at me! :P
21:14:03  <TrueBrain> :D
21:14:14  <TrueBrain> did you had to lookup my age first? :D
21:14:26  <frosch123> yes, i only know rb's by heart
21:14:34  <TrueBrain> about the same, all I know
21:14:45  <TrueBrain> all our oldies are from around the same age :P
21:15:33  <frosch123> usually the birthyear is a random number. but in case of rb it had meaning
21:15:45  <TrueBrain> same as yours, I assume? :D
21:16:10  <frosch123> no, so you do not know rb's year?
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21:16:22  <TrueBrain> I am REALLY horrible at remembering such details
21:16:31  <Samu> i'm confused about something on Bananas
21:16:39  <frosch123> look up rb in the element table. it's the element number
21:16:49  <Samu> on Dependencies, it asks for an Id
21:17:01  <TrueBrain> haha, okay, I would NOT have made that connection
21:17:04  <TrueBrain> that is sweet frosch123 :D
21:17:05  <TrueBrain> nice :)
21:17:14  <Samu> what do i input there?
21:17:17  <Samu> ai-library/5343504c/e1940278
21:17:25  <Samu> or just 5343504c
21:17:37  <frosch123> well, rb pointed that out somewhen. since then i know the element number of rb
21:18:21  <frosch123> those two things hold together. i would have forgotten each one, if they had not been connected :)
21:18:47  <frosch123> oh, it's the Element weight, not the element number
21:19:32  <frosch123> he's not that old :p
21:19:33  <TrueBrain> haha, I was about to mention .. 37 sounds off :P
21:19:39  <TrueBrain> I remember him being a lot younger :D
21:20:35  <TrueBrain> awh, he did not even fill it in on his Wiki page :P
21:21:03  <andythenorth> bring back rb
21:21:05  <andythenorth> and yexo
21:21:18  <andythenorth> why do people need jobs so much? :P
21:21:22  <frosch123> yeah, yexo vanished right away, when the new job started
21:21:34  <TrueBrain> new jobs tend to do that with you
21:21:47  <TrueBrain> this is why I am resisting finding one :D :D :D
21:22:22  <andythenorth> patreon
21:22:24  <andythenorth> for devs :P
21:22:37  <TrueBrain> it really is too bad that it is hard to make money in Open Source, honestly
21:22:42  <andythenorth> it would be less fun if it was work, right?
21:22:47  <TrueBrain> like for libraries and applications others use .. there is room
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21:22:50  <TrueBrain> for a game like OpenTTD? Fuck no :)
21:22:51  <andythenorth> like the factorio lead who got totally burnt out
21:23:05  <Samu> nevermind, I figured it out
21:23:06  <andythenorth> factorio, mashinsky etc have made businesses out of it
21:23:11  <andythenorth> but that's.....work
21:23:19  <TrueBrain> and not Open Source :P
21:23:22  <frosch123> maybe we can find a rich wife for tb?
21:23:31  <TrueBrain> haha :D
21:23:35  <andythenorth> Doom got ID rich on open source
21:23:40  <andythenorth> different times
21:23:45  <TrueBrain> like if you could work 1 or 2 days a week, paid, on a game like this? That is nice
21:23:58  <andythenorth> do we all have to pay for RHEL now?
21:24:04  <andythenorth> open source :P
21:24:15  <TrueBrain> "Open Source" you mean :)
21:24:44  <andythenorth> more speech quotes
21:24:54  <TrueBrain> owh well, in IT, it is more like: get a job that pays well, retire early, right? :)
21:25:37  <andythenorth> ha ha ha ha ha
21:25:46  * andythenorth has NFI
21:26:33  <TrueBrain> all energy companies in The Netherlands are looking for Architects
21:26:39  <TrueBrain> and one thing that stands out
21:26:44  <TrueBrain> their conditions are insanely good
21:27:05  <TrueBrain> you get N% a month to spend how ever you like .. either money, days off, training, ..
21:27:10  <andythenorth> technical architects?
21:27:21  <TrueBrain> all kinds, from Software, Solution all the way to Enterprise
21:27:24  <TrueBrain> but technical, yes
21:27:27  <TrueBrain> not presales :)
21:27:36  <andythenorth> but not drawing houses
21:27:43  <frosch123> energy companies? enexis or something else?
21:27:49  <TrueBrain> yeah
21:27:53  <TrueBrain> and our main grid supplier
21:27:57  <TrueBrain> they all have job openings
21:28:04  <TrueBrain> booming business, it seems
21:28:16  <andythenorth> same here
21:28:26  <andythenorth> domestic suppliers, wind suppliers
21:28:35  <TrueBrain> like, I found 4 of them on the first page of a joblisting site ..
21:28:38  <TrueBrain> out of 20
21:28:45  * andythenorth knows where there's a sec ops job :P
21:28:45  <andythenorth> oof
21:28:58  <TrueBrain> nobody wants to work outside the EU andythenorth  :)
21:29:05  <andythenorth> there is that
21:29:23  <frosch123> well, if a company has many job offerings, that means it's a bad company, that noone wants to join, and many quit
21:29:34  <TrueBrain> sometimes :)
21:29:37  <frosch123> "too many open positions" is a bad sign
21:29:40  <TrueBrain> sometimes it just means they are expanding :)
21:29:52  <TrueBrain> but it is not that 1 company has many job openings
21:30:01  <TrueBrain> no, all the energy companies have job openings for architects :)
21:30:12  <TrueBrain> I think "all" is fair .. found 5 now :)
21:30:18  <frosch123> when i was searching, i also crossed every company from the list, that was looking for people with skills in blockchain :p
21:30:20  <TrueBrain> owh, 6
21:30:29  <andythenorth> sometimes it's just expansion
21:30:31  <TrueBrain> haha, yes, that is a big nono :)
21:30:40  <andythenorth> are we on the blockchain yet?
21:31:03  <frosch123> "blockchain" is code for "out managemant has no clue"
21:31:20  <TrueBrain> not only do they have no clue, they also push through bullshit to their underlings
21:31:25  <TrueBrain> which scares the shit out of me :P
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21:31:38  * andythenorth awaits the blockchain
21:31:47  <andythenorth> what even is though?
21:31:50  <TrueBrain> well, do it right and you be rich :)
21:32:08  <andythenorth> decentralised immutable public registers
21:32:14  <andythenorth> don't seem like a terrible idea
21:32:24  <andythenorth> except...if you rewrite the history
21:32:32  <TrueBrain> blockchain is to me like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloot_Digital_Coding_System
21:32:56  <TrueBrain> if you have a great pitch, a good way to make a lot of money
21:33:01  <andythenorth> remarkable story
21:33:27  <andythenorth> oh does he just precompute them all, then store a key in 8KB?
21:33:43  <TrueBrain> he just never did it, at all
21:33:53  <TrueBrain> don't overthink this :D
21:34:06  <andythenorth> BUT I WANT IT TO BE TRUE
21:34:20  <TrueBrain> well, you can encode 256 movies in a single byte
21:34:20  <andythenorth> then we can have streaming movies and stuff
21:34:24  <TrueBrain> that is not a problem AT ALL
21:34:32  <TrueBrain> so you have that, if you like
21:34:34  <andythenorth> then we could have grfs with movies playing
21:34:43  <andythenorth> grftoo
21:34:45  <andythenorth> oh
21:35:14  <TrueBrain> so many job offerings are behind a recruitment agency
21:35:16  <TrueBrain> like ... fuck off
21:35:21  <TrueBrain> tell me who you are, or get out
21:35:25  <TrueBrain> owh, lol, this is funny
21:35:37  <TrueBrain> Are you able to create a solid architecture of complex financial products using blockchain technologies? Can you survive in Amazon Web Services and/or Google Cloud Platforms? Please read further since we have a great opportunity for an experienced Blockchain Architect.
21:35:39  <TrueBrain> I FOUND ONE!
21:35:59  <TrueBrain> it is even a legit one :)
21:36:00  <TrueBrain> In this role you develop groundbreaking products from scratch. It is important that you have senior knowledge of Ethereum/Solidity, including demonstratable NFT implementations. You can create a solid architecture of complex financial products using blockchain technologies based on cloud environments connected to common backend technologies.
21:36:21  <TrueBrain> Our client is a ground breaking start-up in the blockchain community with a unique and game changing proposition. The company is currently now working with many freelancers but has the ambition to grow with permanent staff since their workload keeps growing.
21:36:22  <TrueBrain> The team is mixed with different genders, ages and ethnicities; everyone is welcome as long as you are qualified in your field and have experience in the blockchain world. The head quarter is based in the Utrecht region.
21:36:33  <TrueBrain> how cute .. startup looking for people ..
21:36:39  <TrueBrain> what, they want you to work for free for the first year?
21:36:45  <TrueBrain> AS THERE IS MUCH MONEY IF THEIR IDEA WORKS
21:37:07  <TrueBrain> Possibility to have tokens <- they are selling it now!
21:37:23  <TrueBrain> Vacation money <- OMG! They do the BARE MINIMUM mandatory by law! OMG! HOW NICE OF THEM
21:37:25  <TrueBrain> lolzzz
21:37:40  <FLHerne> Why stop at scamming the public when you can also scam your employees?
21:37:57  <TrueBrain> haha, I thought it was legit
21:37:58  <andythenorth> oof
21:38:02  <TrueBrain> turns out this too is a lot of hot air :)
21:38:04  <TrueBrain> sorry ..... :P
21:38:07  <andythenorth> I would see the lolz
21:38:11  <andythenorth> but it's all so weird
21:38:24  <andythenorth> twitter tells me nobody can get into the industry without a lot of life privilege
21:38:27  <glx> "ground breaking startup" <-- vaporware for me
21:38:31  <andythenorth> and everybody I know can't hire
21:39:22  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: well, as mentioned earlier .. in my bracket alone are 300+ job openings .. it is also very hard to find people at all
21:39:30  <andythenorth> very
21:40:26  <frosch123> TrueBrain: you should take an interview at a smaller company
21:40:52  <TrueBrain> I tend to find jobs at small companies :)
21:40:56  <frosch123> it's weird to have more experience in job interviews than the interviewer
21:41:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig
21:41:42  <andythenorth> https://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/182001-moc-cutting-steel-with-a-lego-angle-grinder/
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21:42:34  <frosch123> TrueBrain: job interviews can be fun, just go to them, just to confirm your first opinion
21:42:41  <andythenorth> it's all remote now anyway
21:42:46  <_dp_> wait, some blockchain startups are still not dead yet?
21:42:51  <_dp_> or is it a new batch xD
21:42:59  <TrueBrain> well, currently I just have the issue that there are too many, and picking any is because of that rather hard :D
21:43:06  <TrueBrain> new batch, I am afraid :P
21:43:25  <andythenorth> offer paid OpenTTD support :P
21:43:30  <TrueBrain> Cloud Saves!
21:43:33  <TrueBrain> 1 euro a month!
21:43:36  <TrueBrain> profit goes to my pockets!
21:43:38  <TrueBrain> yes yes? :D
21:43:42  <andythenorth> shrug
21:43:46  <TrueBrain> (fuck no, btw, just to be clear)
21:43:55  <andythenorth> I think the lolz would wear off
21:44:01  <andythenorth> after you get paged a few times
21:44:09  <TrueBrain> pretty used to that, honestly :)
21:44:14  <TrueBrain> drives you to make sure it never goes down ;)
21:44:26  <TrueBrain> I had my 0100 calls to get in a car and drive 30km to a datacenter
21:44:40  <TrueBrain> to unplug and replug a server
21:44:42  <TrueBrain> and drive back :P
21:44:59  <andythenorth> customer DNS is the least lolz of the pages
21:45:19  * _dp_ was quite surprised when I glanced over the irc window and saw "blockchain"
21:45:20  <andythenorth> nothing we can do but someone has to get paged because site is down
21:45:22  <TrueBrain> nice work on the coding style milek7 !
21:45:22  <_dp_> thankfully unrelated xD
21:45:38  <TrueBrain> wait, we are not going to add blockchain to OpenTTD?
21:45:43  <TrueBrain> but how do we know you are you if we do not?
21:46:01  <_dp_> trust me, I am I :p
21:46:08  <TrueBrain> okay
21:46:09  <TrueBrain> :D
21:46:18  <TrueBrain> right, enough bullshit for 1 evening .. I did exactly nothing, which was nice
21:46:18  <andythenorth> we could put all the vehicles on a blockchain
21:46:28  <TrueBrain> night all
21:46:30  <andythenorth> bye
21:46:35  <andythenorth> game state via proof-of-work
21:46:36  <andythenorth> :P
21:46:37  <andythenorth> oof
21:46:44  <andythenorth> might hurt the FPS
21:49:00  <_dp_> might hurt humans :p
21:51:29  <Xaroth> Curious, if I were to rename a string in english.txt, does that need fixing in the other languages as well? or will eints be smart about that and pick that up?
21:52:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig
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21:56:38  <frosch123> Xaroth: the STR_xyz is the identifier. if you remove one from english, eints will delete it from the other languages
21:56:57  <Xaroth> How about renaming, frosch123?
21:56:58  <frosch123> eints does not try to detect renaming STR_x ro STR_y
21:57:07  <frosch123> it will delete all STR_x
21:57:39  <Xaroth> does eints pick it up if I rename them in all languages?
21:57:48  <Xaroth> or will that have no use?
21:58:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig
21:58:02  <frosch123> yes, but it will be a "delete x, add y". so "y" will be a new string
21:58:10  <frosch123> "old translations" will be forgotten
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22:04:18  <frosch123> night
22:04:21  *** frosch123 has quit IRC
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22:16:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Xaroth opened pull request #8392: CargoSpec array cleanup https://git.io/JLcIZ
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22:35:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Xaroth updated pull request #8392: CargoSpec array cleanup https://git.io/JLcIZ
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22:56:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig
23:02:17  <LordAro> Xaroth: i'd prefer candyfloss over cotton candy
23:02:28  <LordAro> cotton candy is disturbingly... american
23:03:35  <LordAro> Xaroth: also, if i wanted to be super anally retentive, i'd say the renaming should be in separate commit
23:05:05  *** gelignite has quit IRC
23:06:18  <Xaroth> The renaming of all other languages is in a separate commit
23:06:29  <Xaroth> I tried to keep the commits.. build-able
23:07:34  <Xaroth> but that said, if the consensus is to use another name, that's easily doable :P
23:08:04  *** Lejving_ has joined #openttd
23:08:20  <Xaroth> I need to somehow trick TrueBrain to look at it as well when he's less asleep :P
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23:12:23  <Xaroth> but if we do change it, Candy should become sweets as well, to match English.txt better
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23:30:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8392: CargoSpec array cleanup https://git.io/JLcsK
23:32:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Milek7 updated pull request #8391: RFC: Feature: Public key company authorization https://git.io/JLnig

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