Config
Log for #openttd on 1st January 2021:
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00:00:34  <LordAro> cheers, etc
00:00:45  <Heiki> happy new UTC 2021
00:00:59  <Timberwolf> Happy new year :) https://i.imgur.com/TbFacon.gif
00:01:03  *** nielsm has quit IRC
00:04:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8472: Cleanup 2db88953e7: Remove VL_FIRST_SORT as it's useless https://git.io/JL7qz
00:05:36  <LordAro> glx: grats on first commit of the year :p
00:06:55  <LordAro> preempted andy's "ottd is dead, no commits all year"
00:08:06  <andythenorth> wow
00:08:13  <andythenorth> ooof FIRS is dead
00:08:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8468: Fix #8316: Make sort industries by production with a cargo filter possible https://git.io/JL7mE
00:08:46  * andythenorth made a Sam commit though
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00:10:02  <LordAro> andythenorth: <3
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00:27:50  <andythenorth> supermop_Home yes
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00:42:50  <supermop_Home> need wood siding/ timbers for national park lodge effect
00:44:22  <andythenorth> +1
00:44:28  <andythenorth> wood above snowline
00:44:30  <andythenorth> brick below
00:45:09  <andythenorth> hacienda version for sub-tropic
00:45:28  <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.0-beta-3/html/industries.html#vineyard
00:45:41  <andythenorth> I am unusually proud of that bell tower
00:48:26  <supermop_Home> yes
00:49:04  <supermop_Home> Waikiki strip?
00:53:20  <andythenorth> hotels grf forthcoming
00:53:40  * andythenorth must to sleep :)
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03:37:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8439: Feature: Make town bridge max length a function of its population https://git.io/JL7no
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04:31:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #8473: Add: Towns can build tunnels https://git.io/JL7cV
04:34:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8473: Add: Towns can build tunnels https://git.io/JL7cV
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05:25:42  <supermop_Home> i guess happy new year from here
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08:14:47  <andythenorth> yo
08:18:26  <Wolf01> o/
08:28:58  * andythenorth draws boats
08:30:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8049: Suggestion: Allow Game Scripts to set the max loan of a company. https://git.io/Jv7Jj
08:31:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 closed issue #8049: Suggestion: Allow Game Scripts to set the max loan of a company. https://git.io/Jv7Jj
08:31:04  * Wolf01 plays games alone as always
08:35:26  <andythenorth> you could do MMPORG
08:35:31  <andythenorth> with the toxic kids
08:35:36  <andythenorth> and the toxic adults
08:41:29  <Wolf01> I usually play online with friends
09:34:14  <TrueBrain> happy new year all :)
09:35:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8458: Fixes for issues with rotated (non-rectangular) airports https://git.io/JL70w
09:38:52  <andythenorth> Wolf01 HNY
09:39:02  <andythenorth> oops intended for whole channel :)
09:39:04  <andythenorth> back to bed andythenorth
09:49:20  <Wolf01> :)
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09:59:58  <J0anJosep> Happy new year
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11:06:00  <Samu> growing towns with tunnels sounds like fun
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11:17:28  <andythenorth> paint https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1239872#p1239872
11:43:14  <Con_TheGranny> Nice boat!
11:47:19  <andythenorth> ta
12:18:25  <Samu> question: int chance = Chance16(1, 16);
12:18:37  <Samu> is this bool conversion into a 0 or 1 acceptable code?
12:19:32  <Samu> or should I be more complete? int chance = Chance16(1, 16) ? 1 : 0;
12:20:29  <TrueBrain> LordAro: new years present: https://truebrain.github.io/OpenTTD-savegames/index.html
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12:26:30  <Samu> this is the issue: https://pastebin.com/bcYAia8f
12:27:13  <Samu> p2 in DoCommand is a uint
12:27:21  <Samu> i'm passing a bool
12:27:54  <Samu> will it auto convert to 0 or 1? or is there gonna be some compiler going to argue?
12:36:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8474: Codechange: move some DEBUG-levels and remove some others in saveload routine https://git.io/JL72Q
12:37:00  <michi_cc> Samu: Don't just always guess, look at some references: https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/implicit_conversion#Integral_conversions
12:38:51  <LordAro> Samu: generally better to be explicit anyway
12:39:18  <andythenorth> what shall we do today Brain?
12:39:19  <LordAro> TrueBrain: ooh
12:39:49  <andythenorth> ha the Pinky and the Brain reference is entirely co-incidental :)  Nothing to do with TB
12:39:55  * andythenorth just noticed it
12:42:52  <Eddi|zuHause> just now? we've been joking about TruePinky over 10 years ago
12:44:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8474: Codechange: move some DEBUG-levels and remove some others in saveload routine https://git.io/JL7ak
12:52:27  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause I'm usually a bit behind
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13:25:03  <Wolf01> https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aXoZG82_460swp.webp ahahaha
13:26:08  <LordAro> pretty sure i saw that image a year ago
13:26:18  <Wolf01> But today is official
13:26:42  <LordAro> last january was official too
13:41:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8474: Codechange: move some DEBUG-levels and remove some others in saveload routine https://git.io/JL72Q
13:41:23  <TrueBrain> LordAro: you do know that this was an iteration on your own work, right? ^^ :D
13:51:54  <LordAro> i guessed as such
13:52:50  <Samu> what's the complement of a steep slope?
13:54:04  <Samu> i wonder... what will the terraform command do
13:54:55  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: nice joke, but they didn't cross out norway or russia either
14:03:14  <Wolf01> Also Switzerland
14:10:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Mailaender opened issue #47: nmlc ERROR: Image file "sprites/png/infrastructure/locks_normal.gimp.png": cannot identify image file https://git.io/JL7wG
14:14:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro commented on issue #47: nmlc ERROR: Image file "sprites/png/infrastructure/locks_normal.gimp.png": cannot identify image file https://git.io/JL7wG
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14:25:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8295: Game crashes trying to sell huge wagon chain https://git.io/JJ9zk
14:25:56  <LordAro> TrueBrain: you might be interested in ^
14:27:21  <TrueBrain> LOL
14:28:28  <LordAro> calling Vehicle::Next 1.4 billion times probably isn't helping
14:28:34  <LordAro> (in 500 ticks)
14:28:59  <TrueBrain> I still think the bug is that you are allowed to have such a huge chain of vehicles :P
14:29:10  <LordAro> yeah, you're probably right
14:29:37  <LordAro> doesn't mean we can't improve things in other areas
14:29:40  <TrueBrain> nevertheless, improving performance is always fun :D
14:30:52  <LordAro> like, am i reading this right? ReleaseDisastersTargetingVehicle is taking 50% of the runtime?
14:31:12  <TrueBrain> profiling extreme savegames is always fun :)
14:31:19  <TrueBrain> did it a lot with openttdcoop back in the day
14:31:25  <TrueBrain> we increased the speed a lot by doing so
14:31:28  <LordAro> i remember a blog post on it
14:32:52  <TrueBrain> and yes, this suggests ReleaseDisastersTargetingVehicle  is your issue :P
14:32:55  <TrueBrain> not the SetNext() :D
14:33:14  <LordAro> oh wait no, i am misreading
14:33:27  <LordAro> the time in paren is the time in the function itself
14:33:43  <TrueBrain> yes; but why is 50% of the time in a function called only 27129 times
14:34:03  <LordAro> https://github.com/jrfonseca/gprof2dot#output
14:34:05  <TrueBrain> that is a lot of processing power to release a vehicle :)
14:34:33  <TrueBrain> so it is O(n^2) or something?
14:34:38  <TrueBrain> @calc 54260*54260
14:34:38  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 2944147600
14:34:39  <LordAro> seems so
14:34:57  <TrueBrain> but that function seems to be ... relative slow :P
14:35:08  <LordAro> !calc 823421499/54260
14:35:12  <LordAro> @calc 823421499/54260
14:35:12  <DorpsGek> LordAro: 15175.47915591596
14:36:38  <TrueBrain> it should only iterate over disastervehicles
14:36:47  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/bef9e3fcfae897f28601844aad1ea45a6b900233/src/disaster_vehicle.cpp#L955
14:37:01  <TrueBrain> but I guess that is implemented as a filter :P
14:37:08  <LordAro> quite probably
14:37:38  <TrueBrain> worst part, it is most likely empty
14:37:43  <TrueBrain> as it is much more likely there is no disaster :D
14:39:15  <TrueBrain> pretty sure that putting disasters in their own pool would double the speed :P
14:39:19  <TrueBrain> (it would still be slow btw)
14:39:33  <LordAro> it's not obviously a filter...
14:40:14  <TrueBrain> "Returns an iterable ensemble of all valid vehicles of type T"
14:41:44  <TrueBrain> (I do not know how this Pool:: shit works, so I leave that to you :D)
14:41:52  <LordAro> mm, that's what i'm looking at :D
14:41:59  <TrueBrain> but I highly doubt there is even 1 disastervehicle, so I am guessing it is iterating all vehicles trying to find out
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14:42:43  <TrueBrain> but I leave further analysis to you :) Just do release, a 2x faster chain-removing is nice, but it won't solve the bug :)
14:43:09  <Eddi|zuHause> <TrueBrain> I still think the bug is that you are allowed to have such a huge chain of vehicles :P <-- we should probably cap the length of a free wagon chain, and allow for there to be multiple chains instead
14:43:22  <TrueBrain> that is one possible solution, yes :)
14:43:38  <LordAro> would screw with AI though
14:43:53  <TrueBrain> pretty sure this is a bug in the AI ;)
14:43:55  <LordAro> it's hard enough for them to deal with engine-less wagon chains as it is
14:44:00  <LordAro> for sure
14:44:07  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: probably less than disallowing selling an engine when the resulting wagon chain would get too long
14:44:56  <Eddi|zuHause> would be a chance to make the free wagon chains more train-like
14:45:23  <Eddi|zuHause> which could help AIs get a better grasp on them
14:45:34  <LordAro> mildly surprised we don't already have per-type vehicle pools
14:45:42  <LordAro> wouldn't be that hard to split out, i would think
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14:46:00  <TrueBrain> it used to be very difficult, as some code depends on iterating all vehicles
14:46:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. they're a train, with a number, etc. you just can't send them out of the depot with power=0
14:46:09  <TrueBrain> one can now fix that easier, by combining iterators
14:46:18  <LordAro> mm, true
14:46:22  <TrueBrain> (FOR_ALL_VEHICLES couldn't, if my memory serves me well)
14:46:51  <LordAro> grep -R Vehicle::Iterate src | wc -l
14:46:51  <LordAro> 98
14:46:55  <TrueBrain> so I would think too that with all the C++ changes, this should now be possible
14:46:56  <LordAro> still quite a lot of them :)
14:47:22  <LordAro> wait, 81
14:47:23  <TrueBrain> yeah, but it is now a function :)
14:48:12  <TrueBrain> guess a lot of code could benefit from splitting Road from Trains from ... in the iterate :)
14:48:25  <TrueBrain> can be in the same pool btw; just the iterate should not need to skip them
14:48:31  <TrueBrain> (and run IsValidId on them :P)
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15:20:00  <TrueBrain> LordAro: do we want the savegame archive to download BaNaNaS content before running the save? Or something like that ..
15:20:11  <TrueBrain> otherwise savegames with NewGRFs etc will never really be tested, I guess
15:20:16  <TrueBrain> no clue how to do that btw :P
15:20:50  <TrueBrain> guess it is time for a parameter to "auto-download missing content if possible" :P
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15:32:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i would say the archive should contain all dependencies for each savegame
15:32:32  <LordAro> TrueBrain: mm, tricky
15:32:34  <TrueBrain> I am not going to archive zBase ;)
15:32:51  <LordAro> that's not part of the savegame :p
15:33:05  <LordAro> nuts on the other hand...
15:33:08  <TrueBrain> fair; take any other big NewGRF ;)
15:33:14  <TrueBrain> it is just not practicle
15:33:36  <TrueBrain> and as I removed "download all content", it might be only fair for dedicated servers to have: download requirements for this savegame
15:33:37  <TrueBrain> I guess
15:33:39  <Eddi|zuHause> what about savegames requiring non-bananas grfs?
15:33:51  <TrueBrain> we very properly cannot store those anyway
15:34:06  <TrueBrain> if someone doesn't want his GRF on BaNaNaS, I am pretty sure they don't allow us to archive it :P
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16:03:00  <LordAro> did we want to do a release today?
16:03:26  <TrueBrain> don't think so
16:03:30  <TrueBrain> why would we want to?
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16:03:56  <Eddi|zuHause> we should merge #7000 before making a beta release
16:04:52  <TrueBrain> I think we should do a bit more than 1 PR :)
16:05:04  <TrueBrain> LordAro: really, a release before mid feb I would consider unlikely
16:05:12  <TrueBrain> and we should skip "beta"
16:05:27  <andythenorth> yo
16:05:31  * andythenorth has been outside
16:06:13  <LordAro> i'd rather at least one beta before branching
16:06:38  <LordAro> give people a chance to use it in multiplayer contexts - don't really want anothr 1.10
16:06:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8295: Game crashes trying to sell huge wagon chain https://git.io/JJ9zk
16:06:48  <LordAro> full of desyncs, thay
16:06:48  <TrueBrain> haha, okay, fair :)
16:06:50  <LordAro> that*
16:06:54  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: skipping beta is a bad idea, because historically that's when we get actual feedback from a wider audience
16:07:21  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: that is a non-sense argument; RCs carry the same job
16:07:31  <TrueBrain> we did not do betas that often, over the years
16:07:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but RCs carry a stricter "we don't change anything big anymore" message
16:08:07  <TrueBrain> so should beta (and historical, has, except for I believe 1 release, which we regretted :P)
16:08:27  <TrueBrain> it is more about: how much backporting do we expect, and how much do we enjoy that, honestly
16:08:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8295: Game crashes trying to sell huge wagon chain https://git.io/JJ9zk
16:10:15  <TrueBrain> as the only difference between beta and RC is for us if it is branched or not :)
16:10:45  <TrueBrain> which historical had to do with a feature-freeze .. and a "now let's fix the bugs on the issue tracker for a few days" :D
16:11:27  <TrueBrain> owh, Rb could always get so passioned about that .. when it was < 30 bugs, a release could go ahead :P
16:11:31  <TrueBrain> fun times :D
16:13:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. so a beta release marks the start of feature freeze, an RC the end of feature freeze (because that's when we branch off)
16:13:28  <Eddi|zuHause> anything you fix in beta doesn't need backports
16:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> because it's not branched yet
16:14:53  <TrueBrain> I am happy you are repeating my words :) Means we say the same ;)
16:15:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] Mailaender commented on issue #47: nmlc ERROR: Image file "sprites/png/infrastructure/locks_normal.gimp.png": cannot identify image file https://git.io/JL7wG
16:15:52  <TrueBrain> LordAro: anyway, to come back to our conversation: I have a few things on my list I would like to finish before any release, if that is not a problem :)
16:16:36  <TrueBrain> I feel that rushing in a release is not the right call atm, just because we like to have fun with dates ;) :D (but, my opinion; if you have other things in the balance I would love to hear :D)
16:17:31  <Eddi|zuHause> remember when we had the ambition to shorten the release cycle? :p
16:19:14  <andythenorth> when did we last release?
16:19:16  * andythenorth looks
16:19:27  <andythenorth> August
16:19:36  <TrueBrain> LordAro: one of the main things on my list is M1 support btw :)
16:20:01  <andythenorth> does anyone have an M1?
16:23:58  <TrueBrain> (but also for example the settings PR should be merged, in what-ever form :D)
16:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> to conclude: we have too many open questions to declare a feature freeze yet
16:25:57  <TrueBrain> questions? no, we mostly have unfinished work to push
16:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i would use the words "question" and "work" interchangably :p
16:26:40  <TrueBrain> a question is something that requires an answer; we just require hands to do work :)
16:26:48  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i would still suggest trying to resolve these in the next weeks rather than the next months
16:26:51  <TrueBrain> which has been lacking for a while .. so there is a bit of a backlog :)
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16:27:17  <TrueBrain> that fully depends on how motivated people are/get, and how many people want to be pedantic about silly things :)
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16:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i can be pedantic about silly things :)
16:28:58  <Eddi|zuHause> motivation is a... different story
16:30:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #7895: Savegame regression testing https://git.io/JL7XF
16:31:15  <TrueBrain> we all can be rather pedantic about silly things, and waste a lot of time on them :P :D We found each other there :P
16:31:45  <TrueBrain> I will see if I can make a small TODO list of things I would like to have done before a beta this weekend or something :)
16:32:37  <TrueBrain> but basically my motivation is: I would like to be proud of 1.11, and not go: here goes nothing! :P :D
16:33:17  <andythenorth> are we working to get things in to release, or to get PRs out of queue? :)
16:33:35  * andythenorth would like to help
16:33:44  <TrueBrain> getting PRs resolved is a goal, but not a very useful one, in my opinion :)
16:34:14  <TrueBrain> finding which PRs are worth including and which can wait, however, is something else; but that is exactly what I have been doing lately ;)
16:35:05  <TrueBrain> but mostly, we need to give some people time to get back from the xmas break ;)
16:40:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #8295: Game crashes trying to sell huge wagon chain https://git.io/JJ9zk
16:47:57  <TrueBrain> Lol @ michi_cc .. things get worse and worse while diving into the details of that issue :D
16:48:15  <TrueBrain> Why didn't this surface years ago? :p
16:48:57  <michi_cc> Because humans don't have free wagon chains to the mount everest and even AI authors don't really like them? :p
16:50:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i still haven't understood what that code is actually trying to achieve
16:50:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the comments don't seem to match what the code does
16:52:01  <supermop_Home> andythenorth is NE facing slope meant to look brighter than SE?
16:52:31  <supermop_Home> looks that way in ogfx arctic grass and dirt but feels wrong
16:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> there is some weird lighting like that in original graphics as well
16:53:32  <supermop_Home> im making NE facing roof lighter than SE accordingly, but its a very subtle difference
16:53:57  <andythenorth> the lighting on the tiles is different to all the other lighting
16:55:09  <andythenorth> sun is pretty much directly perpendicular to a SE roof IMO
16:55:13  <andythenorth> so fully lit
16:55:26  <andythenorth> NE facing roofs are usually very few pixels due to slope
17:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure wars have been fought over which lighting was correct
17:11:28  <andythenorth> nobody won
17:11:49  <andythenorth> the correct answer is to go the original baseset, which is definitive
17:12:28  <andythenorth> punchline is too silly, the original baseset has 3 or 4 different lighting directions
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17:26:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8465: Documentation: COMPILING.md does not describe how to make a non-debug build on non-Windows https://git.io/JLHTh
17:29:32  <Timberwolf> https://i.imgur.com/5kZreF4.png
17:31:30  <andythenorth> TrueBrain \o/
17:31:43  <andythenorth> oops wrong tab complete
17:31:55  <andythenorth> this irc client does not tab-complete in alphabetical order :P
17:32:12  <TrueBrain> Timberwolf: wauw
17:32:14  <andythenorth> Timberwolf \o/
17:32:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8448: New feature: option to see charts of all items in the balance sheet dating from 10 years prior. https://git.io/JLyv2
17:32:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8448: New feature: option to see charts of all items in the balance sheet dating from 10 years prior. https://git.io/JLyv2
17:33:20  <TrueBrain> oef, I clearly had not looked at the issue-list in a while ..
17:34:21  <andythenorth> I tried :)
17:34:26  <andythenorth> but every oef
17:35:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8294: [Small compile issue] wrong name for bin/ https://git.io/JJyoU
17:35:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8294: [Small compile issue] wrong name for bin/ https://git.io/JJyoU
17:38:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8303: Passwords not autosaving https://git.io/JUYLu
17:38:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8303: Passwords not autosaving https://git.io/JUYLu
17:39:07  <TrueBrain> opening random issues .. so far, 3-for-3 on closing them :)
17:40:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8310: when I logged in to 1M city mania the error window pops up... https://git.io/JU0EE
17:40:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8310: when I logged in to 1M city mania the error window pops up... https://git.io/JU0EE
17:40:26  <TrueBrain> I like these issues .. "problem is solved".. so .. CLOSE! :D
17:44:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8296: Non-latin text language not showing in mac os https://git.io/JJxmQ
17:44:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8296: Non-latin text language not showing in mac os https://git.io/JJxmQ
17:44:40  <TrueBrain> 4 / 5
17:49:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8447: Color tracks and lanes by used capacity https://git.io/JLyvC
17:49:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8447: Color tracks and lanes by used capacity https://git.io/JLyvC
17:49:50  <TrueBrain> 6 / 7 (I miscounted earlier)
17:49:51  <TrueBrain> this is fun :D
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17:52:59  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8314 <- hmm .. to triage I would need a NewGRF with power/unpower ...
17:53:09  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: did you want to make yourself useful? Can you validate if that bug is still current? :D
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17:59:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8465: Documentation: COMPILING.md does not describe how to make a non-debug build on non-Windows https://git.io/JLHTh
18:00:03  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8194: Releases from version 1.10.1 no longer work on mid-2007 iMac https://git.io/JfMJz
18:00:43  * andythenorth reading
18:03:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8465: Documentation: COMPILING.md does not describe how to make a non-debug build on non-Windows https://git.io/JLHTh
18:04:25  <TrueBrain> LordAro / michi_cc : any opinion on ^^ ? Default CMake builds debug-builds (as we did with 'configure' too), as source is meant for developers .. and they likely want a debug build. Should we extend our documentation to include how to make release-builds? I am very tempted to just say: read CMake documentation, honestly :)
18:04:50  <TrueBrain> (the more you write how to compile, the more error-prone it gets, history has shown :P)
18:05:52  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: imho, telling people to "RTFM" while they try to read the FM doesn't sound like a good idea
18:06:08  <TrueBrain> that is .. too blunt
18:06:14  <TrueBrain> we tell how to build a debug build
18:06:21  <TrueBrain> we do not go into detail how CMake works
18:06:26  <TrueBrain> for that, CMake has a very well written documentation
18:06:35  <TrueBrain> redoing documentation on how to use tools, is rarely useful :)
18:06:40  <TrueBrain> we also don't tell in detail how to use MSVC, etc
18:06:59  * andythenorth thinks the main audience for this is 'people compiling JGR because there are no binaries'
18:07:02  <andythenorth> + andythenorth and snail
18:07:09  <TrueBrain> andythenorth: you are clearly  mistaken :)
18:07:14  <TrueBrain> as I asked about that ;)
18:07:38  <TrueBrain> (and that is exactly why I asked about it :D )
18:07:51  <andythenorth> assumptions debunked
18:07:52  <andythenorth> ok
18:07:53  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: what i'm trying to say is: don't expect people to know cmake
18:08:02  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: we don't :)
18:08:09  <TrueBrain> hence we explain how to make a debug build
18:08:10  <andythenorth> but we don't have to solve every problem
18:08:14  <TrueBrain> which is 90% of the time what developers want :)
18:08:25  <andythenorth> the audience of people who want to build, but not a debug is limited
18:08:28  <andythenorth> it's basically me
18:08:37  <andythenorth> and a few others
18:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: btw, i think your assumptions are wrong
18:09:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8314: Converting railtypes under a train https://git.io/JUg2Z
18:09:55  <twpol> It made a huge difference to my testing of automatic separation, as fast-forward in debug is... basically normal speed ;)  But I also don't think you need anything more than a link to CMake docs really.
18:10:48  <TrueBrain> twpol: good point; we do link the download page, not the documentation page
18:16:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] pyup-bot opened pull request #78: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/JL79a
18:16:55  <LordAro> no particular harm in mentioning cmake_build_type, imo
18:17:09  <TrueBrain> owh boy, this spam again ...
18:17:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] pyup-bot opened pull request #16: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/JL79X
18:17:12  <LordAro> explicitly, i mean
18:17:15  <TrueBrain> LordAro: where to draw the line, the question is :)
18:17:31  <TrueBrain> we used to be very explicit in our docs ... and it was broken most of the time :P
18:17:42  <TrueBrain> I found a nice compromise
18:18:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #52: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/JL797
18:19:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8475: Docs: indicate where to find an excellent tutorial on using CMake https://git.io/JL79j
18:19:18  <TrueBrain> there ^^ :)
18:19:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #40: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/JL7Hv
18:19:53  <TrueBrain> made it more explicit :D
18:19:55  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8475: Docs: indicate where to find an excellent tutorial on using CMake https://git.io/JL79j
18:20:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/DorpsGek] pyup-bot opened pull request #41: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/JL7H3
18:23:23  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8112: Players report unauthorized clients joining passworded companies https://git.io/JfGhG
18:24:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8475: Docs: indicate where to find an excellent tutorial on using CMake https://git.io/JL79j
18:24:52  <TrueBrain> stupid commit message checker >:D
18:25:16  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server] pyup-bot opened pull request #23: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/JL7Ho
18:26:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/master-server-web] pyup-bot opened pull request #18: Scheduled monthly dependency update for January https://git.io/JL7HD
18:28:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8253: Very large company values are not graphed correctly https://git.io/JJUWy
18:35:35  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8213: Crash while maximizing the window on first run after compilation https://git.io/JfyF0
18:35:38  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8213: Crash while maximizing the window on first run after compilation https://git.io/JfyF0
18:36:44  <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8168 <- what a nice little bug :D
18:42:09  <TrueBrain> LordAro: any chance of you updating your XDG patch btw? :D
18:42:10  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #8194: Releases from version 1.10.1 no longer work on mid-2007 iMac https://git.io/JfMJz
18:42:55  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: if you are right, there is no way for us to fix that, I guess .. would be a bit sad :)
18:43:24  <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh yes, i should do that
18:43:31  <TrueBrain> <3
18:43:41  <michi_cc> I would hope there is some magic -f<something> or -m<something> compiler flag for that
18:43:43  <TrueBrain> (I am not using XDG as I don't have that weird library installed ... :P)
18:43:52  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] danidoedel opened issue #116: [de_DE] Translator access request https://git.io/JL7QW
18:43:56  <TrueBrain> michi_cc: but that means we would produce binaries for all Macs without SSE4 support
18:44:02  <TrueBrain> hurting their performance, possibly, right?
18:44:33  <michi_cc> Yeah, compiler toggle is usually all or nothing.
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18:44:54  <TrueBrain> so we would have to produce 2 builds, make this a user-problem, or make all Macs suffer, I guess :D
18:45:11  <michi_cc> I mean, it would likely not effect our custom SSE code, just if the optimizer inserts some by itself.
18:45:32  <TrueBrain> ah, fair, that shouldn't be "too bad" I guess :)
18:45:42  <snail_UES_> I’m now trying to switch from macports to homebrew… wish me luck
18:46:03  <TrueBrain> luck
18:47:02  <Eddi|zuHause> wish
18:47:50  <michi_cc> Google thinks the flag should be -msse3, and I do know that we already have some specific overrides in CMakeLists of the blitter.
18:47:59  <TrueBrain> ugh, found more issues with xdg support in OpenTTD .. boy ...
18:48:19  <michi_cc> I don't really know the cmake execution order though, i.e. where to insert what to get the proper flag arrangement.
18:49:37  <TrueBrain> hmm ... so if 32bpp_sse4.cpp is included, it adds -msse4.1
18:50:01  <TrueBrain> should be for those files only
18:50:12  <TrueBrain> you should be good to set -msse3 for the rest, and it should do the right thing
18:50:15  <TrueBrain> should should should :D
18:50:25  <LordAro> TrueBrain: also want to do something to make the cmake warning go away on arch, as its been annoying me
18:50:42  <TrueBrain> the one suggesting to make a Pull Request? :D
18:53:34  <TrueBrain> in C++, std::string == std::string, is that a strcmp or a pointer compare?
18:53:57  <michi_cc> strcmp
18:53:57  <LordAro> strcmp
18:54:01  <LordAro> jinx
18:54:04  <TrueBrain> tnx :)
18:54:20  <TrueBrain> then this code "should work" .. but .. yeah, I will wait for the PR update from LordAro before I delve into XDG :)
18:54:46  <michi_cc> operators on std::string usualy just do what you expect.
18:55:02  <TrueBrain> but my expectations are very weird :P
18:55:06  <TrueBrain> you do realise that, right? :D
18:55:19  <snail_UES_> maybe it’s a silly question, but I’m gonna ask anyway
18:55:34  <TrueBrain> I just asked a silly question, so bring it on :)
18:55:37  <snail_UES_> anyone here runs MatLab in a recent version of Mac OS (greater than 12) ?
18:56:00  <TrueBrain> all eyes look at andythenorth :P
18:56:08  <snail_UES_> I mean greater than 10.12 . The fear of losing it is the only thing that pulls me from upgrading my OS
18:58:45  <andythenorth> never matlabbed
18:59:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8057: Recognize NT 5.2 Service Pack 2 as supported in the installer https://git.io/JvbYw
18:59:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8057: Recognize NT 5.2 Service Pack 2 as supported in the installer https://git.io/JvbYw
18:59:51  <TrueBrain> owh, right, new release also adds the "what to do with signing" to the todolist .. ugh
19:01:39  <snail_UES_> andythenorth: you didn’t miss much :) but it’s the only mathematical/statistical package I know well and I wouldn’t like to lose it
19:06:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7842: Linkgraph takes a very long time to recalculate on large save, causing hangs https://git.io/Jeig0
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19:17:17  <LordAro> random quesrion: should all the issues that have been fixed "automatically" by cmake be mentioned in the changelog?
19:17:20  <LordAro> question*
19:18:16  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. that is a nice random question :)
19:18:27  <TrueBrain> historical, we only use the "git log" to write the Changelog, not?
19:18:30  <TrueBrain> and not the issue-tracker
19:18:38  <michi_cc> snail_UES_: https://www.mathworks.com/support/requirements/platform-road-map.html
19:18:39  <TrueBrain> which means many things can go unnoticed in the changelog
19:18:42  <TrueBrain> is that what you mean, kinda?
19:19:41  <snail_UES_> michi_cc: thanks
19:19:56  <snail_UES_> I have 2016b, it says it works on 10.12 but doesn’t say anything about newer systems
19:20:18  <snail_UES_> and new matlab versions are so expensive...
19:22:46  <michi_cc> Well, the official list for that is https://www.mathworks.com/content/dam/mathworks/mathworks-dot-com/support/sysreq/files/SystemRequirements-Release2016b_Macintosh.pdf
19:22:56  <michi_cc> But I guess that was from the initial release.
19:23:01  <snail_UES_> hmmm
19:23:23  <snail_UES_> michi_cc: yes, I think so, that pdf was created back in 2016
19:23:27  <snail_UES_> https://ralocz.weebly.com/matlab-2016b-mac-download.html
19:23:42  <snail_UES_> you can just download it? I think you later need to buy a license key or something
19:24:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure i would put much trust in that site :p
19:24:45  <michi_cc> https://de.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/answers/358261-why-do-my-matlab-files-appear-corrupt-on-macos-high-sierra says that 2017b is strongly recommended for OSX 10.13
19:25:00  <TrueBrain> LordAro: and if I understand you correctly, how do you think we can manage that? (honest question, to be clear :D)
19:25:59  <snail_UES_> michi_cc : thanks for that. I knew it :(
19:26:30  <snail_UES_> so it’s either matlab or being able to compile openttd
19:26:33  <LordAro> TrueBrain: yes, that's what i mean
19:26:58  <TrueBrain> should we label issues we close with a "changelog" label or something? Or just browse all issues between now and last release?
19:26:59  <LordAro> don't have a good way of generating it though, other than getting the closed date (or, last changed) of all the issues
19:27:33  <TrueBrain> I kinda like it, honestly
19:27:37  <TrueBrain> to mention bugs we fixed
19:27:49  <TrueBrain> as when cleaning up the issues now, I find all kinda of things we kinda fixed, or completely fixed
19:27:56  <TrueBrain> "by accident" basically :D
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19:29:58  <LordAro> aye
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20:10:44  <snail_UES_> now I get this error when I try to compile JGR’s patch:
20:10:46  <snail_UES_> CMakeFiles/openttd.dir/build.make:6551: *** target pattern contains no `%'.  Stop.
20:10:46  <snail_UES_> make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/openttd.dir/all] Error 2
20:10:47  <snail_UES_> make: *** [all] Error 2
20:10:49  <snail_UES_> any ideas?
20:18:07  <LordAro> snail_UES_: space in your checkout/build path?
20:18:14  <LordAro> or other weird character
20:18:35  <TrueBrain> that shouldn't matter
20:19:04  <LordAro> shouldn't
20:19:19  <LordAro> could also be ':', which i've seen in the past
20:19:24  <LordAro> that was a fun one to debug
20:19:32  <TrueBrain> :D
20:19:41  <TrueBrain> the initial version of CMake I build by having a very weird path
20:19:47  <TrueBrain> as I wanted to be very sure that problem would die once and for all :P
20:20:11  <LordAro> been changed quite a lot since then :)
20:20:18  <TrueBrain> I have seen that % error before, but I cannot really remember
20:20:32  <TrueBrain> it generated a weird line ..
20:20:36  <TrueBrain> owh, MSVC did that
20:20:38  <snail_UES_> LordAro: the folder reads: openttd_jgr_202012
20:20:41  <TrueBrain> with Squirrel
20:20:52  <LordAro> all the script generation, for instance
20:20:57  <LordAro> snail_UES_: full path?
20:21:04  <TrueBrain> snail_UES_: what is in CMakeFiles/openttd.dir/build.make line 6551 ?
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20:21:30  <snail_UES_> LordAro: /roba/openttd_jgr_202012
20:21:37  <LordAro> dunno then
20:21:45  <LordAro> what TB said
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20:22:33  <snail_UES_> TrueBrain: hmm, that folder doesn’t exist
20:22:42  <TrueBrain> that is rather impossible :P
20:22:50  <TrueBrain> it is in your build folder
20:23:16  <snail_UES_> wairt, I was looking in the wrong place
20:24:10  <snail_UES_> openttd: PNG::PNG-NOTFOUND
20:24:34  <snail_UES_> did I forget to install something through homebrew?
20:25:00  <TrueBrain> png, for one :)
20:25:06  <TrueBrain> but that should be handled graceful
20:25:14  <TrueBrain> well, clearly it does not :P
20:25:31  <snail_UES_> so, “brew install png” , right?
20:25:48  <TrueBrain> that I do not know :( Not a MacOS user, sorry :(
20:25:59  <TrueBrain> our CI uses vcpkg for dependencies ..
20:26:00  <snail_UES_> np, I’ll try to figure it out
20:29:14  <snail_UES_> looks like there is nothing called “png” available in homebrew. There is “libpng” , which I already have
20:29:57  <Xaroth> you also need the header files, if they are packaged separately.
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20:31:40  <TrueBrain> if you run "cmake ..", it tells you what it detects
20:31:45  <TrueBrain> what does it say for PNG?
20:33:35  <snail_UES_> let me check
20:40:38  <snail_UES_> if I run “cmake ..” in cmake’s “bin” folder, I only get this:
20:40:39  <snail_UES_> -- Configuring done
20:40:40  <snail_UES_> -- Generating done
20:40:41  <snail_UES_> -- Build files have been written to: /roba/cmake-3.19.2
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20:45:08  <snail_UES_> however, when I ran it before trying to compile ottd, I got this:
20:45:09  <snail_UES_> -- PNG found -- -DWITH_PNG -- PNG::PNG
20:51:40  <snail_UES_> I think I’ll change it to “/usr/local/lib/libpng.dylib” in the build.make file
20:54:34  <snail_UES_> alright, now it looks like it got past that roadblock
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21:08:03  <snail_UES_> now it tells me:
21:08:04  <snail_UES_> [CMakeFiles/openttd.dir/all] Error 2
21:08:20  <snail_UES_> but there is no file “all” in the CMakeFiles/openttd.dir
21:19:30  <supermop_Home> oops ive just spent the past 90 min listening to the perfect dark soundtrack
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21:26:46  <TrueBrain> snail_UES_: you are just executing "make" in the end in your build folder, right?
21:26:51  <TrueBrain> not "make all" or something? :D
21:26:59  <snail_UES_> just “make"
21:27:28  <snail_UES_> ok, I still got a very similar error as what I got when I was using MacPorts:
21:27:55  <snail_UES_> ld: warning: ignoring file /usr/local/lib/liblzo2.a, file was built for archive which is not the architecture being linked (x86_64): /usr/local/lib/liblzo2.a
21:27:55  <snail_UES_> Undefined symbols for architecture x86_64:
21:28:03  <snail_UES_>  "___lzo_init_v2", referenced from:
21:28:04  <snail_UES_>       LoadFilter* CreateLoadFilter<LZOLoadFilter>(LoadFilter*) in saveload.cpp.o
21:28:05  <snail_UES_>       SaveFilter* CreateSaveFilter<LZOSaveFilter>(SaveFilter*, unsigned char) in saveload.cpp.o
21:29:01  <snail_UES_> plus a few more
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21:30:56  <TrueBrain> that indicates your liblzo2.a is of another architecture than your system
21:31:20  <TrueBrain> you can disable LZO for now, just to see if it continues
21:32:40  <snail_UES_> make —without-lzo ?
21:33:38  <TrueBrain> no, via CMake
21:34:14  <TrueBrain> you can either rename liblzo2.a, which mostly also does the trick :P
21:34:18  <TrueBrain> cmake-gui allows you to configure it
21:34:27  <TrueBrain> or "cmake .. -D<option>"
21:44:13  <TrueBrain> I am guessing liblzo2 is not created by brew btw
21:44:20  <TrueBrain> but it found it because it was left behind by something else
21:44:23  <TrueBrain> and it is not build for your system
21:44:35  <TrueBrain> this is one of the quirks of MacOS, this happens easily and often
21:48:22  <andythenorth> is it sleeping time?
21:48:50  <TrueBrain> I no longer hav eto care what people in the UK do, so do what you want :P :P :P
21:49:41  <andythenorth> we voted for freedom of sleeping?
21:49:43  <andythenorth> hurrah
21:50:18  <TrueBrain> :D
21:50:37  <andythenorth> freedom from the dictats
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21:55:06  <snail_UES_> wonderful. I was able to compile it, but now it crashes upon executing
21:56:23  <TrueBrain> crash, or exit with error?
21:56:38  <snail_UES_> crash I think
21:56:53  <TrueBrain> with a crash you get an OS error
21:56:57  <snail_UES_> Crash encountered, generating crash log...
21:56:57  <snail_UES_> *** OpenTTD Crash Report ***
21:56:59  <snail_UES_> etc etc
21:57:02  <TrueBrain> oef, that is a crash indeed
21:57:25  <TrueBrain> if you share, we can help you out if you like
21:57:29  <TrueBrain> (the crash log)
21:58:04  <snail_UES_> yep, I’m planning to post it in JGR’s thread
22:03:10  <snail_UES_> written
22:03:11  <snail_UES_> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=73469&p=1239892#p1239892
22:05:19  <TrueBrain> fails in your video driver .. shrug .. that is too OSX specific for me :)
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22:12:32  <snail_UES_> TrueBrain: where can you see this?
22:12:43  <snail_UES_> what part of the crash report?
22:13:00  <TrueBrain> frame #10: 0x000000010486e709 openttd`WindowQuartzSubdriver::SetVideoMode(int, int, int) + 1145
22:13:16  <TrueBrain> it goes from frame #7: 0x000000010486f2d3 openttd`WindowQuartzSubdriver::SetPortAlphaOpaque() + 51
22:13:22  <TrueBrain> to frame #6: 0x00007fff944d9b3a libsystem_platform.dylib`_sigtramp + 26
22:13:25  <TrueBrain> so it hits a trap there
22:13:36  <TrueBrain> so something goes wrong with SetPortAlphaOpaque, I am guessing
22:15:28  <snail_UES_> I see...
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22:45:21  <azulcosta> good year everyone! I'm having a problem with 32bit 2cc masks, only in 3 buses (from 11) but only in vertical sprites (direction 1 and 5). it only shows the colored pixeis... the rest of the bus is transparent e no roof or windows.... and i can't figure it out, where's the problem....
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22:48:12  <azulcosta> here's a picture of the problem
22:48:13  <azulcosta> http://prntscr.com/weddj1
22:48:23  <azulcosta> look at the bus in the right corner....
22:51:16  <azulcosta> version 1.10.3
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22:59:18  <andythenorth> shall we play Train Whack for a bit? https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.16.0/html/train_whack.html
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23:00:57  <azulcosta> anyone waked to help my problem ?
23:07:11  <andythenorth> it's quite late for this channel azulcosta
23:07:21  <andythenorth> most people CET time, gone to sleep :)
23:07:48  <azulcosta> oh... what time is there ?
23:07:56  <azulcosta> here's in Portugal is 23h
23:12:35  <andythenorth> same
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23:16:23  <azulcosta> ok, i'll back tomorro
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23:47:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro approved pull request #42: Fix: [Makefile] make sure installed filenames are as OpenTTD expects https://git.io/JL5tt
23:47:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro merged pull request #42: Fix: [Makefile] make sure installed filenames are as OpenTTD expects https://git.io/Jf8rW
23:50:26  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro commented on issue #47: nmlc ERROR: Image file "sprites/png/infrastructure/locks_normal.gimp.png": cannot identify image file https://git.io/JL7wG
23:50:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenGFX] LordAro closed issue #47: nmlc ERROR: Image file "sprites/png/infrastructure/locks_normal.gimp.png": cannot identify image file https://git.io/JL7wG

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