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Log for #openttd on 9th January 2021:
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00:22:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLp7t
00:23:54  <TrueBrain> What value does it carry?
00:24:23  <TrueBrain> I couldn't come up with a reason why we want to tell it that explicit :p
00:25:01  <TrueBrain> And it is waaayyyy to big for the screen and what it does
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00:25:40  <TrueBrain> Dunno, feels like we giving it too much value
00:26:00  <LordAro> maybe, but it is an action that "cannot be undone"
00:26:14  <LordAro> users should be suitably warned about that
00:26:30  <TrueBrain> I noticed I never read the sentence :l
00:26:47  <LordAro> of course not, you probably wrote it originally :p
00:26:54  <LordAro> or had a hand in it
00:26:58  <TrueBrain> So if that is the goal, not sure we succeeded
00:27:08  <TrueBrain> Nah, it is the UI pattern used
00:27:28  <TrueBrain> Maybe a popup when you first use it, but also feels like too much
00:27:54  <TrueBrain> I will toy a bit with it tomorrow, see if it can be a bit more useful and friendly
00:28:41  <TrueBrain> I even considered removing the "we remember what you did"
00:28:50  <TrueBrain> But for debugging it tends to be useful
00:31:03  <TrueBrain> Now first, zzzzzzzz
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00:38:41  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Berbe commented on pull request #7286: Add #2155: newheightmapgame command https://git.io/JLp7n
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01:49:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber opened pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb
01:49:52  <Timberwolf> oops, I broke it :(
02:31:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] kiwitreekor commented on issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway https://git.io/JLN40
02:38:21  <reldred> Okay, that multi tile depots patch is kinda cool
02:38:57  <reldred> Building a four wide tram depot and unleashing a dozen trams at once and watching them all roll out side by side
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07:18:57  <andythenorth> yo
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09:05:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhJY
09:05:25  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLhJO
09:06:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway https://git.io/JLN40
09:06:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLpyz
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09:22:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhJ6
09:25:12  <andythenorth> issue count 88
09:25:19  <andythenorth> visually pleasing number, please maintain
09:25:44  <andythenorth> WHO HAS ADDED PRS OVERNIGHT?
09:25:45  <TrueBrain> haha
09:25:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLpSx
09:26:17  <TrueBrain> better question: why did nobody review during the night? Unacceptable :P
09:27:38  <andythenorth> https://twitter.com/PHP_CEO/status/1169920906317238272
09:27:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF
09:28:51  <TrueBrain> and you only hope he is joking :)
09:30:21  <andythenorth> "Too many files at address 01A2: 4233"
09:30:24  <andythenorth> oof
09:30:32  * andythenorth was playing https://classicreload.com/drug-wars.html
09:33:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLhUI
09:34:52  <TrueBrain> that seems reasonable
09:37:37  <andythenorth> I probably need to set aside my NRT regrets
09:37:47  <andythenorth> we 're not going to remove it now eh :|
09:38:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8541: Revert 78f92130: "Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build" https://git.io/JLhU8
09:39:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLhUR
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09:41:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8541: Revert 78f92130: "Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build" https://git.io/JLhU8
09:43:20  <TrueBrain> changing graph colours is surprisingly difficult :D I did not expect anything less ...
09:43:58  <andythenorth> is it directly the company colour?
09:44:08  <andythenorth> no intermediate table?
09:44:09  <TrueBrain> so each colour has these gradient colours .. where the ... is that documented :P
09:44:16  <TrueBrain> ^^ :P
09:44:46  <andythenorth> is it not just 'palette index + n'?
09:45:02  <TrueBrain> [3] is dark, [5] is medium_dark, [7] is light
09:45:15  <TrueBrain> there are snippets in the code which tell what the gradients are
09:45:24  <TrueBrain> there must be someone who made an image out of it, I am sure :D
09:45:51  <andythenorth> oh they're not just + n
09:45:55  <andythenorth> some ranges are special
09:46:21  <TrueBrain> there are 8 colours in a gradient per company colour
09:46:22  <andythenorth> this isn't quite what you need but gives clues https://github.com/frosch123/TTDViewer/blob/master/src/recolor.xml#L186
09:46:53  <andythenorth> I never found the actual definitions in openttd src
09:47:00  <andythenorth> I assume they're in openttd.grf somewhere
09:47:08  <TrueBrain> seems the higher the number, the lighter the colour
09:47:23  <TrueBrain> the palette itself is in one of the grf files, yes
09:47:24  <andythenorth> yes, they're palette indexes, and mostly the run dark->light
09:47:28  <TrueBrain> but I don't care about any of that :)
09:47:31  <andythenorth> but some of the ranges have 'surprise' in them
09:47:33  <TrueBrain> I just want to know what the gradient means :P
09:49:08  <andythenorth> you want indexes into the actual company ranges?  Or just 'a bit darker/lighter than current choice'?
09:49:19  <TrueBrain> I want to know what the gradient looks like
09:49:29  <TrueBrain> that if I change the "6th" to the "5th", how much colours I change
09:49:31  <TrueBrain> for better or worse :)
09:49:44  <TrueBrain> basically, a PNG that puts the company colours on 1 axis and the gradient on the other :P
09:49:52  <TrueBrain> I am sure someone has that image, I just can't find it :D
09:50:31  <andythenorth> I could generate one if nobody has
09:50:39  <andythenorth> surprised if they haven't TBH
09:50:42  <TrueBrain> if that is not too much trouble, that would help
09:50:45  <TrueBrain> but I assume someone has it
09:50:48  <TrueBrain> the one in docs only shows 1 gradient
09:50:51  <TrueBrain> which is a bit silly :D
09:51:38  <andythenorth> I generate this from code, and I have all the company colour indexes as constants also https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/blob/master/palette_key.png
09:52:27  <TrueBrain> that combined with the XML paints a picture
09:52:31  <TrueBrain> but a single one would be more useful to me :D
09:53:00  <TrueBrain> owh, one is hex, other is dec
09:53:01  <TrueBrain> that sucks :P
09:53:44  <andythenorth> yeah but I can adjust
09:56:55  <andythenorth> might take a bit of time, but worth having the image I think
09:57:19  <TrueBrain> sure someone has it already :P I just odn't know where :D
10:00:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLhUp
10:01:27  * andythenorth makes a thing
10:02:13  <TrueBrain> I guess I could render it ingame too; but that might be more effort :D
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10:11:34  <andythenorth> I will have something on AWS in 10 mins or so
10:11:40  <TrueBrain> \o/
10:11:44  <TrueBrain> I am going to add it to the repo :P
10:12:03  <TrueBrain> hmm, my keyboard needs a clean .. letters are sticking
10:12:37  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLhTC
10:12:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF
10:17:38  <LordAro> TrueBrain: ew
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10:18:04  <LordAro> my keyboard is bad, but it's not *that* bad :p
10:23:43  <andythenorth> slow upload is slow
10:23:59  <andythenorth> 5.5KB/s
10:24:00  <andythenorth> lol
10:25:45  <andythenorth> AWS wtf day :P
10:25:55  <andythenorth> my connection is 30Mb/s upload
10:28:52  <FLHerne> Some kind of soft rate-limit?
10:29:53  <andythenorth> pff dunno
10:31:50  <andythenorth> TrueBrain this is a hack inside the Iron Horse compile at the moment https://grf.farm/misc/company_colour_reference/html/company_colour_indexes.html
10:32:12  <andythenorth> I can strip it down to be self-contained like https://grf.farm/misc/industry_map_colours.html
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11:04:28  <TrueBrain> LordAro: the keyboard is almost 10 years old, give him a break :P
11:04:31  <TrueBrain> nice andythenorth  :) Tnx!
11:04:49  <andythenorth> most of the time was formatting html tables :P
11:04:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF
11:05:13  <TrueBrain> LordAro: now a quick approval on https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8541 as well, and I am a happy kid :D
11:13:08  * andythenorth had all the colours in scope for doing stupid stuff like https://grf.farm/misc/company_colour_reference/html/growler.html
11:13:23  <andythenorth> sometimes I have ideas about writing a newgrf generator
11:13:31  <andythenorth> then I remember 'lol'
11:14:10  <andythenorth> I think we could a lot more towards content previews on bananas though
11:14:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #8541: Revert 78f92130: "Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build" https://git.io/JLhId
11:14:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8543: Fix #8272: vehicle destination text colour when mousing over https://git.io/JLhIN
11:14:20  <andythenorth> just not sure of the direction
11:14:27  <TrueBrain> tnx michi_cc_  :)
11:14:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8541: Revert 78f92130: "Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build" https://git.io/JLhU8
11:14:59  <michi_cc> Huh, did I gain a _? My client doesn't show one.
11:15:06  <TrueBrain> no, it is my client
11:15:08  <TrueBrain> I am sorry :(
11:15:17  <TrueBrain> it remembers very old names, and tends not to notice they left the channel :P
11:15:30  <TrueBrain> andythenorth_corner <- is active in this channel, it claims
11:15:37  <michi_cc> No problem, I was just wondering because I have configured that as one of the possible alternate nicks.
11:16:11  <michi_cc> So I though something might have become unsync between client and bouncer.
11:16:19  <TrueBrain> I love to find a bug, open it, and see JGRPP already has a fix. It does require looking a bit further if there were follow-up fixes, but at least it is better than fixing it myself :)
11:16:28  <TrueBrain> nah, you're good :)
11:16:58  <TrueBrain> I am doing a lot of "git blame" lately, I have noticed :)
11:18:36  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8471: Fix #8462: Don't check whether to grow a town road on water https://git.io/JLQpH
11:18:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8462: Towns testing whether a road is allowed on a river tile return true https://git.io/JL9o3
11:19:28  <andythenorth> TrueBrain I do wonder if we are upstream or downstream to JGRPP now
11:19:33  <andythenorth> not trolling, quite serious
11:19:50  <TrueBrain> I think it is a useless question
11:20:26  <TrueBrain> I mean, the answer is pretty irrelevant, is it not?
11:21:17  <andythenorth> only relevant in that I am confused, it clearly doesn't matter in the real world
11:21:22  <andythenorth> onwards
11:21:52  <michi_cc> We are (and should be) downstream of many things, including, JGRPP. Tested things are always better than untested things. But as we also accept non JGRPP-things, we are also upstream as well.
11:22:20  <TrueBrain> basically, you have to define "upstream" and "downstream" :)
11:22:54  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8525: Server on MacOS is not sending ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_WELCOME packet https://git.io/JLpsj
11:24:11  <TrueBrain> and I wouldn't have any idea what you are confused about :P You basically ask a question, without explaining why you ask it .. sounds familiar? :D :P :D
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11:31:19  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain reopened issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway https://git.io/JLN40
11:38:44  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #7869: The human-readable name of a cargo type can't be queried by AI/GS. https://git.io/Jed7d
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11:45:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8506: Town builds unnecessary junctions on highway https://git.io/JLN40
11:49:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhtB
11:49:55  <TrueBrain> right, if everything gets reviewed, people fix the last thingies in their PRs, I think we have all I had planned for 1.11 done :)
11:53:56  <TrueBrain> oops, forgot lunch
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12:16:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO
12:20:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO
12:21:09  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO
12:23:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF
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12:30:43  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhmq
12:32:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhmm
12:33:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhm3
12:34:08  <TrueBrain> that makes sense
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12:36:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF
12:37:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLhmE
12:37:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLhUp
12:37:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO
12:40:35  <TrueBrain> hmm .. do rivers have a direction ...
12:43:01  <FLHerne> TrueBrain: I find it weird that the river-building tool isn't available
12:43:06  <FLHerne> I mean, why not? :p
12:43:18  <FLHerne> People do build artificial rivers in real life
12:43:30  <FLHerne> And it is really useful for the aesthetics
12:44:08  <TrueBrain> if even JGR doesn't enable it by default, that is already telling, tbh :D
12:44:36  <TrueBrain> currently, in my opinion, it is just a bit weird how rivers, canals and locks interact
12:44:46  <FLHerne> Why?
12:44:48  <TrueBrain> if you can put down rivers, what is the use of canals
12:44:53  <FLHerne> (other than locks being impractical)
12:44:59  <TrueBrain> well, that for locks
12:45:13  <FLHerne> To look like canals :p
12:45:27  <TrueBrain> but I don't know what the original intention of this all was
12:45:32  <TrueBrain> is done waayyyy after my time :P
12:46:10  <FLHerne> In 'realistic' games, it's often convenient to divert rivers a few tiles
12:46:27  <FLHerne> And it looks weird to have a tiny section of concrete-edged canal
12:46:32  <TrueBrain> yeah, well, I still stand by my suggestion: make rivers flow
12:46:38  <TrueBrain> which allow you to divert rivers fine
12:47:01  <TrueBrain> but in a way that makes a bit more sense game-play wise
12:47:05  <FLHerne> 'flow' as in they flood in another direction if you destroy them?
12:47:13  <FLHerne> That sounds like it would be a complete headache
12:47:24  <TrueBrain> well, that would require pressure; also a fun idea, but no :)
12:47:32  <FLHerne> People have tried to make flow-based river generation before, it never works very well
12:47:43  <TrueBrain> but in case you missed it: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8461#issuecomment-756432270
12:48:00  <FLHerne> Because the OTTD landscape has big expanses of flat tiles, so it's hard to pick a direction that really makes sense
12:48:13  <TrueBrain> the river generation as it is, is fine by me
12:48:21  <FLHerne> (and TGP doesn't generate things that work as drainage basins)
12:48:53  <FLHerne> I like both lighthouses and indestructible rivers for the same reason ;-)
12:49:11  <TrueBrain> it only works for certain playstyles
12:49:17  <TrueBrain> but that is a common issue for OpenTTD :)
12:49:28  <TrueBrain> we tend to shape the game to our own playstyle, including myself, which is dangerous :D
12:50:14  <TrueBrain> but again, I miss a bit of backstory about rivers and canals and such
12:50:28  <TrueBrain> to me, they look absolutely amazing, but game-play wise they lack something; not sure what that something is
12:50:49  <TrueBrain> they fit weirdly with the rest of OpenTTD
12:51:23  <TrueBrain> so do ships in general, btw
12:52:59  <TrueBrain> is river destruction bound to town rating?
12:55:11  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhYm
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13:05:06  <LordAro> needs them realistic rivers that ic111(?) made
13:06:08  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhYg
13:06:34  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on issue #8545: Debugging: There is no way to see road and rail type flags in game https://git.io/JLhqO
13:12:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhYP
13:13:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhY1
13:18:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhtB
13:18:13  <TrueBrain> I forgot how stupid the "diff" of the regression is, really
13:22:05  <Samu> let me test 8544, i think the "human readable" is also language affected
13:22:53  <TrueBrain> or, you could read the PR description .. like ... it says so right there
13:23:39  <Samu> oh, so that's not a problem?
13:23:59  <TrueBrain> again, read the PR description; there are letters there for a reason :)
13:26:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhOm
13:26:59  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I like your thinking, but that requires a lot of fluid mechanics :D
13:27:04  <TrueBrain> not a bad thing :P
13:27:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
13:27:27  <Samu> what about those languages with weird characters?
13:27:43  <TrueBrain> pretty sure you just offended 60% of the world population
13:28:40  <Samu> wow, it works, apparently
13:29:17  <LordAro> wow.
13:29:25  <TrueBrain> it is like .. it was intentional
13:29:27  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhO8
13:29:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure the number of people in the world who speak english is <20%
13:29:56  <Eddi|zuHause> and that's native AND forgeing language
13:29:59  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: well, I was referring to the ones not using latin-alphabet :P
13:30:23  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, that maybe doubles the number :p
13:30:27  <TrueBrain> as I am pretty sure Dutch doesn use "weird characters" :P
13:30:38  <TrueBrain> German on the other hand ...... ;)
13:30:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah ÿ is certainly not a weird character :p
13:30:48  <LordAro> wikipedia says "over 2 billion"
13:30:53  <TrueBrain> we don't have that in Dutch, not in the way you might think :)
13:31:00  <TrueBrain> we use ij, at best
13:31:01  <LordAro> which is >25%
13:31:17  <TrueBrain> I wouldn't even know how to produce an t with " on it
13:31:19  <TrueBrain> t = y
13:31:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhOR
13:31:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhOz
13:31:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not an expert, but i believe ÿ is a different spelling of ij
13:32:13  <TrueBrain> Dutch doesn't have y"
13:32:23  <milek7> TrueBrain: I just realized that security model as implemented in PR is broken when using same identity on multiple servers
13:32:24  <TrueBrain> not sure where you got that from )
13:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't know any dutch, really :)
13:32:34  <TrueBrain> well, lucky for you, I do! :P
13:32:47  <TrueBrain> we have y, if we borrowed the word from another language, or ij
13:33:13  <milek7> 1. victim secures their company on legitimate server with pubkey
13:33:13  <milek7> 2. attacker lures victim to connect to malicious server
13:33:13  <milek7> 3. malicious server simultaneously connects to legitimate server and proxies KEYAUTH packets
13:33:13  <milek7> 4. after KEYAUTH is completed malicious server is left with authorized socket and can access the company, profit
13:33:13  <milek7> so, either: we need to generate unique keypair for given host/port, or do secure key-exchage and encrypt/authenticate all communication
13:33:15  <TrueBrain> in class, when we learn about the german ss, we are like: what is this weird thing?! How do I type it on my keyboard? :P
13:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> "Buchstabenfolge ij: Die Buchstabenfolge IJ, die beispielsweise im Niederländischen oder im Frühneuhochdeutschen vorkommt, wird bisweilen durch ein ÿ ersetzt, da dieses besonders in Handschriften oft genau gleich aussieht."
13:33:32  <Eddi|zuHause> it says so on wikipedia, it must be true
13:33:43  <TrueBrain> yeah ... I guess who-ever wrote that has never talked to any Dutch person before :P
13:33:55  <TrueBrain> long long long long ago we might have had that
13:34:02  <TrueBrain> but ... no; not even learnt in school for 40 years
13:34:12  <TrueBrain> (at least; don't know from before :P)
13:34:17  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8535: Fix #8506: Towns shouldn't add junctions to NewGRF roads they cannot build https://git.io/JLhOi
13:35:21  <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: you do know telling a Dutch person they speak German is a grave insult, right?
13:36:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: a) when did i do that, and b) you know the words "Dutch" and "Deutsch" [=german] are effectively the same word?
13:36:37  <TrueBrain> always knew I was a hidden German :P
13:36:50  <milek7> or third option: client along with challenge signs server IP/port, and server verifies that. but this is complicated because server might not necessarily be aware of all addresses from what it is accessible
13:37:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLpSx
13:37:55  <TrueBrain> milek7: I am way too busy with other things to process what you are saying, but I am not sure the scenario you put forth is a realistic one in the world of OpenTTD
13:38:40  <Samu> im not sure what return nullptr on squirrel will do, need to test that
13:38:52  <milek7> it's not too unrealistic
13:38:57  <milek7> if you set up eg. rcon access for you pubkey all is needed to compromise is to connect to malicious server
13:39:26  <TrueBrain> to connect to a malicious server that knows which server you have rcon access too
13:39:59  <milek7> yes
13:40:10  <TrueBrain> yeah, that is a pretty big if :)
13:40:22  <TrueBrain> nevertheless, I will look what you implemented and what you just said next week
13:40:27  <milek7> but that could be easy, by checking you nickname :P
13:40:31  <milek7> *your
13:40:39  <TrueBrain> how do you know based on my nickname what server I manage? :)
13:40:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhOj
13:40:59  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: by bigdata meta analysis
13:41:13  <TrueBrain> and if someone puts in that much effort .... not sure anyone would for OpenTTD :)
13:41:24  <Samu> ah, it types out a weird null
13:41:29  <TrueBrain> anyway, without a CA, MITM attacks in general are not preventable, not really anyway
13:41:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't follow the topic, but that sounds like a bad attitude to security
13:41:50  <TrueBrain> but again, I need to read better what you wrote milek7 ; don't have the capacity for it atm :)
13:41:56  <TrueBrain> would you mind writing it in a gist, and sending that over?
13:42:01  <milek7> ok
13:42:04  <Samu> last cargo is an invalid cargo: https://i.imgur.com/mY9jQLT.png
13:42:16  <milek7> this isn't MITM attack really, you don't need to takeover victim network
13:42:17  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: security is never 100%. It is always a balance of risk
13:42:25  <TrueBrain> so it is perfectly in line with how you should approach security
13:42:59  <TrueBrain> milek7: fair
13:43:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. so you have a slider "more effort" and a result "more security", so you need a proper argument why the "more effort" doesn't result in "not enough 'more security'"
13:44:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLh3L
13:45:30  <TrueBrain> frosch123: "over the first item", what do you mean?
13:46:05  <frosch123> i mean to replace header_height with WD_PAR_VSEP_NORMAL instead of 0
13:46:14  <frosch123> so the buttons do not touch the top of the panel
13:47:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb
13:50:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLpSx
13:51:06  <TrueBrain> frosch123: I think I did this right :)
13:51:16  <TrueBrain> I only added it to the top, as the bottom already had sufficient padding
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13:51:27  <TrueBrain> I like the window system :) Just wish I didn't have to recompile for it every time
13:52:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8542: Change: use a darker gradient colour for company colours on graphs https://git.io/JLh3c
13:52:42  <TrueBrain> frosch123: in other words, you think changing the background is a better approach too?
13:52:54  <TrueBrain> "should have the biggest impact" can go both ways :P
13:53:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLh34
13:56:29  <milek7> TrueBrain: https://gist.github.com/Milek7/8482c4e87947f4748aea5d96b3e89b80
13:56:35  <TrueBrain> <3
13:57:48  <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, i would try black background.
13:57:52  <TrueBrain> :D
13:57:57  <frosch123> "would", not "will" :)
13:57:58  <TrueBrain> I will experiment with it a bit next week
13:58:11  <TrueBrain> I like his design overal
13:58:15  <TrueBrain> might just try that, see how that goes
13:58:29  <TrueBrain> unless the signing certificates come in; that would keep me busy next week too I guess :P
13:58:31  <TrueBrain> we will see :D
13:58:50  <frosch123> yeah, the designs are cool. a bit utopian, but a direction for orientation
13:59:04  <TrueBrain> "someone with an opinion" :P
13:59:19  <TrueBrain> always nice to follow people who appear to know what they are doing :D
14:00:04  <glx> at least it's using existing widgets
14:00:59  <glx> and design is argumented
14:01:49  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLh39
14:03:56  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLh3d
14:08:51  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhtB
14:09:59  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhsn
14:10:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhsC
14:14:13  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLhsD
14:15:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8034: Text in cheat menu window is excessively dramatic https://git.io/Jvrdw
14:15:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8538: Remove: warning in cheat window https://git.io/JLpSx
14:15:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #7869: The human-readable name of a cargo type can't be queried by AI/GS. https://git.io/Jed7d
14:15:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8544: Add: [Script] ScriptCargo::GetName, to get the human readable name of a cargo https://git.io/JLhtB
14:15:32  <TrueBrain> cheers for the reviews :)
14:17:51  <michi_cc> Anybody interesting in looking at #8378?
14:20:41  <TrueBrain> for me it was blocking on LordAro , if he accepted your answer :D
14:25:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLhGI
14:29:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JIjs7
14:29:45  <michi_cc> No change, just making sure nothing broke.
14:35:37  <glx> took me some time to understand OC_ASSERT stuff, it's just abusing parameters
14:36:45  <Samu> fix for 7670 when not coming to 1.11? t.t
14:37:51  <Samu> TrueBrain removed this from the 1.11.0 milestone 4 days ago
14:38:56  <Samu> already being skipped 2 version
14:38:57  <Samu> s
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14:56:01  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ
14:56:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JLhne
14:57:47  <glx> diff looks huge, but the real changes are not that much
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15:01:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLS3A
15:04:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8378: Remove undefined behaviour from save/load code https://git.io/JIjs7
15:07:42  <Samu> I don't understand why #8514 is "missing intention"
15:09:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick closed pull request #8404: Feature: Snow line height can be autodetermined upon world generation https://git.io/JLa2N
15:09:39  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLhnV
15:14:01  <supermop_Home> yo
15:14:05  <Eddi|zuHause> ho
15:14:25  <supermop_Home> what's going on in the real world?
15:14:40  <Eddi|zuHause> dunno
15:15:32  <Eddi|zuHause> they discovered a genetic mutation that makes male pigs grow female organs
15:17:14  <Eddi|zuHause> s/mutation/modification/
15:17:26  <frosch123> they replaced a Y with a X?
15:17:48  <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i understood it, they added some markers to Y to disable a few parts
15:18:30  <Eddi|zuHause> so they didn't modify the DNA directly
15:18:42  <michi_cc> Lovely epigenetics
15:19:31  <frosch123> maybe they find a method to make male chicken lay eggs
15:19:51  <frosch123> "solves" that killing-half-of-all-chicks issue
15:20:43  <frosch123> though chicken probably have that U/V thing instead of X/Y
15:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i think actually producing eggs might still be a bit further out from that point
15:22:49  <frosch123> s/UV/ZW/
15:22:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLhcu
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15:32:32  <TrueBrain> milek7: found some time, left a (long) comment .. sorry :) I don't know how much you know about cybersecurity, so I explained a few more things than might be needed :)
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15:37:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8461: Feature: Permanent rivers https://git.io/JLS3A
15:37:46  <Samu> Eddi|zuHause, just updated, does it look better?
15:37:53  <milek7> TrueBrain: unless I'm missing something, encrypting channel is solving that
15:37:56  <milek7> after DH exchange server would have client public key
15:38:39  <milek7> if malicious server would want to terminate encrypted connection at their end.. it can, but it will yield different public key, not that of client
15:44:20  <milek7> >it wouldn't even require the full communication to be encrypted
15:44:21  <milek7> it does need to be encrypted (well, at least authenticated), because otherwise whatever complex authorization scheme you come up, malicious server can just passthrough it and takeover socket when it is done
15:45:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on issue #8539: Graph Window - Colors of the mauve, dark green and purple companies are barely visible https://git.io/JLpHF
15:48:46  <Samu> glx, there are no canals or rivers built on the regression.sav
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15:48:53  <Samu> how would I test that
15:49:15  <Samu> wait, maybe there is a canal, let me find it
15:50:27  <glx> oh there's AIMarine.IsCanal
15:51:02  <Samu> i mean in the actual map, there are no rivers
15:52:16  <glx> it's weird IsCanalTile is in AIMarine
15:53:16  <glx> hmm or maybe IsSeaTile should be in marine too
15:53:51  <Samu> they're not constructable, I don't think it needs to be in AIMarine
15:54:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb
15:54:27  <Samu> canal is constructed, seems fair it is in AIMarine
15:55:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb
15:55:50  <milek7> TrueBrain: I replied in gist to keep discussion in one place
15:56:07  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb
15:57:20  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb
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16:03:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #8546: Doc: provide a visual representation of the company colour ranges https://git.io/JLhCP
16:03:55  <frosch123> hmm, no andy, did he run to discord?
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16:10:00  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhWe
16:11:50  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhWI
16:15:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth opened pull request #8547: Doc: add a png representation of the palette overlaid with indexes (dec) https://git.io/JLhWW
16:16:57  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #8547: Doc: add a png representation of the palette overlaid with indexes (dec) https://git.io/JLhWW
16:17:53  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLhW0
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16:30:28  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhWx
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16:31:22  <Xaroth> frosch123: it's like you summoned the devil himself... with a bit of delay.
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16:38:55  <andythenorth> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGo6Qm0Wt8
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16:48:29  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JL5Hh
17:04:23  <Samu> where do i find the regression log at?
17:05:21  <Samu> i ran regression test, it failed, the diff isn't too helpful
17:05:30  <Samu> i want the log itself
17:07:18  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8455: Unified GUI buttons for renaming and scrolling to entities https://git.io/JLhBY
17:08:54  <glx> there's no written log
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17:18:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Wolfolo commented on pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JLhBR
17:19:28  <andythenorth> oof I finally broke my 160 year save irretrievably :D
17:19:44  <Wolf01> Don't you have a backup?
17:19:49  <andythenorth> I changed something in railtype grf, and now all my narrow-gauge tracks have been converted to RAIL
17:19:58  <andythenorth> surprised how long it took
17:20:11  <andythenorth> it's on a branch anyway to test 8342 separation PR
17:20:19  <andythenorth> so the savegame is pretty much junk now
17:20:47  <andythenorth> lets have a moment of silence for it
17:21:47  <Samu> glx: the diff isn't too helpful in this situation, https://pastebin.com/Hc28tAAk
17:22:06  <Samu> i added a list of tiles to valuate IsSeaTile, IsRiverTile
17:22:32  <andythenorth> samu, that wasn't a long enough silence :(
17:22:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] MagnumSociety opened issue #123: [de_DE] Translator access request https://git.io/JLhB2
17:22:45  <Samu> it was exactly 1 minute
17:22:50  <andythenorth> oh ok
17:22:57  <andythenorth> I didn't specify a length
17:22:58  <andythenorth> that's fine
17:23:03  <Samu> hehe
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18:07:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #8390: Add: [AI/GS] Missing water related functions and objects https://git.io/JLnqJ
18:07:17  <Samu> it's going to fail regression
18:07:37  <Samu> just wondering if the output is more useful over there
18:08:05  <glx> I'm trying to add something about that, but it seems there's a bug somewhere
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18:12:59  <Samu> ugly :) https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8390/checks?check_run_id=1674261783
18:13:49  <Samu> i really just wonder if the log can't be placed alongside the temporary files
18:14:06  <Samu> that would help greatly, then I'd just copy paste the missing section into the original result
18:14:23  <glx> it can, I'm working on that, but I first need to fix a regression crash :)
18:16:56  <andythenorth> anybody feel like making a prototype of this? https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1780327/103203644-4c54b180-48ed-11eb-93df-d22d698858de.png
18:17:07  <andythenorth> just a spike, doesn't have to be PR-able
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18:17:59  <andythenorth> the alternative approach is probably more flexible, but seems a lot of work https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=215487
18:18:21  <andythenorth> context https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=88255
18:20:51  <glx> and I also have script version conflicts (silly search paths)
18:26:34  <glx> ah no it's not the search path, it's AIs with different version in tar name but same internal version
18:29:49  <andythenorth> shall I just ship this? :) (could have a parameter to disable it)
18:29:51  <andythenorth> https://grf.farm/images/variants_this_is_fine.png
18:30:10  <glx> I have too much downloaded content
18:30:17  <andythenorth> there is an issue with the reliability varying between each colour scheme, due to random
18:30:25  <andythenorth> probably realistic
18:31:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JLh0N
18:31:05  <DorpsGek>   - Update: Translations from eints (by translators)
18:32:14  <Samu> are they different engines
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18:33:13  <Samu> do you have to create different engines for each colour?
18:36:19  <andythenorth> they use different IDs in this implementation
18:37:11  <andythenorth> there are at least 3 alternative ways to provide the colour schemes
18:37:29  <andythenorth> all rely on abusing side channels
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18:45:51  <frosch123> did you add that reliabiility issue to the discussion?
18:46:31  <andythenorth> I'll do it now
18:49:40  <andythenorth> oh I already did it seems
18:50:27  <andythenorth> I had vague ideas about all child vehicles just have a pointer to parent for reliability etc
18:50:32  <andythenorth> but I am bad at implementation
18:50:39  <andythenorth> and that probably fails hard with cb36
18:51:05  <andythenorth> the ID route seems...quite unpopular and maybe not worth pursuing
18:51:32  <andythenorth> the extensible property route, I have NFI how that would work.  I got as far as thinking maybe action 14 to define the extended props.
18:51:50  <andythenorth> but then every vehicle instance on the map needs extra arbitrary bytes or words
18:51:54  <andythenorth> and savegame upgrades
18:51:56  <andythenorth> and crap
18:52:39  <andythenorth> and I have NFI at all how autoreplace could be patched to handle n arbitrary properties in tabs
18:53:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what?
18:54:50  <andythenorth> Samu https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1239793#p1239793
18:55:10  <andythenorth> oops why did that highlight samu?
18:55:13  <andythenorth> intended for Eddi|zuHause
18:56:53  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i'm actually Samu?
18:57:16  <andythenorth> I don't know if that's funny or terrifying
18:57:36  * andythenorth has a weak grip on reality today, that might be enough to break me
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19:35:09  <supermop_Home> should i draw something or play the game?
19:42:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLhz0
19:46:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z commented on pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLhzu
19:48:13  <TrueBrain> milek7: I think you forgot a detail in what I tried to say: if you don't have an initial trust, someone that is in your network path (which is the case in your scenario) can intercept all traffic, even with DH :) He can just terminate the encrypted channel on both sides, and none would be any of the wiser
19:48:21  <TrueBrain> but I will typie type some words in the gist :)
19:48:44  <milek7> no :)
19:49:27  <milek7> server would be wiser, because while someone can terminate connection on its side, but then it will just connect with different pubkey
19:51:40  <TrueBrain> hmm .. my o was stuck this morning, but now my r is stuck
19:51:41  <TrueBrain> that is odd
19:52:05  <Eddi|zuHause> time for a thorough keyboard cleaning ;)
19:52:22  <TrueBrain> which was exactly what I did what caused this issue
19:52:49  <TrueBrain> meh .. time for a new keyboard I am afraid ... long overdue
19:52:54  <TrueBrain> but hard to get good keyboards
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19:53:40  <TrueBrain> anyway, milek7 , it is nice and all you replied to "my objections", but you don't react to my alternatives; feels a bit you only want your way, but that might be the internet and letters ;)
19:57:33  <milek7> 1. first is useless without encryption anyway, as I explained, and with encryption it isn't really necessary
19:57:50  <milek7> 3. you threw away yourself
19:58:17  <milek7> 2. might be ok, but why solve problem partially when it is possible to solve it fully?
19:59:52  <TrueBrain> first explore the field you have, before you zoom in on a single solution. It helps you to open up for other solutions you might not have considered
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20:25:12  <supermop_Home> multiplayer?
20:26:38  <FLHerne> Yes
20:27:24  <supermop_Home> anyone want to play? or any good servers to check out?
20:28:43  <FLHerne> For vanilla, Reddit S1 is usually busy
20:29:06  <supermop_Home> hmm
20:29:11  <FLHerne> I much prefer grfs, but no-one is ever hosting with the right ones :P
20:29:19  <supermop_Home> yeah
20:29:49  <FLHerne> I could play, but I'm on my laptop so I probably shouldn't host
20:31:00  <supermop_Home> same
20:31:38  <supermop_Home> i need to get some kind of set up where i can just have a server with my preferred grfs playing at all times
20:32:19  <FLHerne> My cheapo VPS is probably too slow for that
20:34:52  <supermop_Home> though i do not have a computer other than a laptop anymore
20:40:21  <supermop_Home> man why did so many N64 games have such interesting scores
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20:43:38  <supermop_Home> the RV pathfinder looks ahead several junctions right?
20:45:13  <supermop_Home> i assume it knows things like "this tile is a one way road in the direction i want to go"
20:45:55  <supermop_Home> hmm i guess i should upgrade my version to play mo
20:45:56  <supermop_Home> mp
20:52:04  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison opened pull request #8548: Dump info commands https://git.io/JLhan
20:54:43  <andythenorth> frosch123 you wanted something at 16.03?
20:55:20  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: wow, you figured out what 0x0102 means? Respect!
20:56:00  <Eddi|zuHause> well, all the info was technically there :p
20:58:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison updated pull request #8548: Dump info console commands https://git.io/JLhan
21:00:05  <frosch123> andythenorth: you wanted that var to check whether the current rail tile powers a certain railtype. i wondered what to return when the railtype you queried is unknown to the railtype grf
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21:01:13  <frosch123> i settled for: it's more likely that a random railtype does not power a random other railtype. or if they do that the railtype author would have known about the other one
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21:04:01  <andythenorth> seems valud
21:04:08  <andythenorth> valid *
21:04:11  <andythenorth> tpying skills
21:05:02  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8549: Codechange: On regression failure, output the result in a file https://git.io/JLha7
21:08:12  <Samu> nice nice, excelent
21:09:24  <andythenorth> so the 'variants are just IDs' route might be a thing, but grf authors on discord are quite -1
21:09:51  <andythenorth> this, with arbitrary extensible vehicle properties...I just don't see how we'd implement that sanely https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1239793#p1239793
21:10:57  <andythenorth> so how about cargo remains cargo, vehicles get to subscribe to a grf-global property which would work with auto-replace (and is intended for liveries, but could be abused) and vehicles get one arbitrary local property, not auto-replaceable, for vehicle specific crap like regearing etc
21:11:13  * andythenorth wonders if a picture would be better
21:11:27  <andythenorth> also frosch has made space in vehicle window by removing the eye :P
21:11:46  <supermop_Home> ugh this server has breakdowns on
21:12:02  <andythenorth> like...arbitrary extensible _sounds_ cool
21:12:09  <andythenorth> but we have 4 spritelayers, and that's fine
21:12:26  <andythenorth> sometimes n is as easy as 2
21:12:34  <andythenorth> but sometimes 2 is easier than n, and better than 1
21:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i've not understood a single word you're saying
21:15:00  <frosch123> andythenorth: that forum link is funny. while you talk about liveries all the time, that forum link talks about changing vehicle properties, and showing their range
21:15:22  <andythenorth> I am fairly convinced both me and the forum poster are wrong
21:15:35  <TrueBrain> awh, but I wanted to be wrong :(
21:15:41  <andythenorth> just supporting liveries, we'll repeat the same bad UI where it's then used for stats
21:15:58  <andythenorth> so we'll get "DB - 120km/h, dellner couplings, 2 drivers"
21:16:13  <andythenorth> and "DB - 120km/h, screw couplings, 2 drivers"
21:16:15  <andythenorth> repeated
21:16:33  <andythenorth> but the forum link....
21:16:35  <andythenorth> FML
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21:17:00  <frosch123> did someone link a computer/car configurator
21:17:08  <andythenorth> I can't see how we'd allow a grf to register arbitrary properties, display them, with different kinds of values
21:17:16  <andythenorth> and work with autoreplace
21:17:18  <andythenorth> and AI support
21:17:19  <frosch123> you pick one of 5 basic layouts, and then choose indiviudal parts, to get your custom computer/car
21:17:39  <andythenorth> also that UI mockup is only for planes, trains are abitrarily combinable
21:18:09  <frosch123> well, it's certainly something entirely different than what you suggested :)
21:18:55  <andythenorth> I thought it might be a better idea
21:19:26  <andythenorth> but then I tried to imagine writing nml code that would make use of it
21:19:36  <andythenorth> I can't even find an appropriate emoji for how confusing that was
21:19:58  <frosch123> let's compare that forum post to nuts. nuts has a bunch of vehicle classes with different stats
21:20:24  <frosch123> going by that forum post, nuts would have a single vehicle per generation, and you pick the class as variant of it
21:21:06  <frosch123> so, essentially that forum post lets the player freely combine the look of an engine with its properties
21:21:15  <frosch123> (in the extreme case)
21:21:25  <frosch123> i think there are not enough stats in the game, where that makes sense
21:22:45  <frosch123> either you have a single train engine, and you can switch out parts for other parts. or you have many engines with fixed combinations
21:22:48  <andythenorth> but the buy menu would be very short!
21:22:51  <andythenorth> super!
21:22:55  <frosch123> i think the latter makes more interesting game play
21:23:44  <frosch123> the former is common for racing games :)
21:23:55  <andythenorth> I used to spend so long tuning gear curves
21:24:06  <andythenorth> trying to be better than the 'auto for this track' setting
21:24:31  <andythenorth> hmm mariokart on wii has a nice level of configuration
21:24:41  <andythenorth> choose driver, choose kart, choose tyres, choose wings
21:25:05  <andythenorth> by the time I get to wings I'm like 'whatever'
21:25:17  <andythenorth> they're all the same anyway for gameplay, so it's cloud vs glider
21:25:27  <supermop_Home> i mean 1st rule of Mariokart is just always be yoshi
21:25:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if i ever wrote this explicitly: but my use case for "variants" would be different number of articulated parts
21:26:07  <andythenorth> https://i.ytimg.com/vi/h4AxKyh0ohs/hqdefault.jpg
21:26:30  <Eddi|zuHause> like "Talent 2" could be available with 3, 4 or 5 cars
21:26:43  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause and (bearing in mind you helped me do that with HEQS)...why not just more IDs?
21:27:06  <andythenorth> we're no longer constrained by TTDP
21:35:06  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic opened pull request #8550: Feature: Remove all industries button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhwv
21:38:02  <andythenorth> reframe the use case?
21:38:31  <andythenorth> I enjoy drawing pixel trains, it's therapeutic, and it would amuse me to draw each of these for grf https://grf.farm/images/45534A8A-ACC7-4067-B4A5-BD3124849BD3_1_105_c.jpeg
21:38:46  <andythenorth> I have exhausted all the current sensible and less sensible ways of doing that
21:39:05  <andythenorth> including abusing the side channels, which is fun, but less therapeutic and more like playing 2048
21:50:32  <andythenorth> obviously there are also the people who wish to accurately represent every train / bus / plane ever made
21:50:36  <andythenorth> and they're using subtypes
21:50:48  <andythenorth> my list of "FIRS disables with vehicle set X' is growing
21:51:07  <andythenorth> so far it's CZ vehicles, RUKTS, and I think maybe the Erato sets
21:51:32  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #7822: Fix #7670: Cache the origin tile to prevent recurring calls to the road pathfinder when a vehicle is blocked by another https://git.io/JLhw5
21:51:40  <Samu> shameless bump
21:51:46  * andythenorth considers just merging all the grfs, FIRS Horse Hog Ships
21:51:50  <Samu> really wanted this fixed for 1.11
21:52:50  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: I have considered "Timberwolf in 1x" for the people who complain about zoom level conflicts, but IMO that would be better served by separating out "maximum zoom level" and "maximum sprite zoom level"
21:53:57  <andythenorth> Timberwolf.grf, all things combined? :)
21:54:05  <TrueBrain> 1 to rule them alllllll
21:54:14  <andythenorth> maybe the canadian dude was right
21:54:24  <Timberwolf> Would be an interesting workflow, given Stations is NFO and the rest are NML.
21:54:39  <andythenorth> it's fine, I do nml -> nfo
21:54:47  <andythenorth> and I've had templated nfo
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21:55:19  <andythenorth> splicing multiple nfo together though is quite hard
21:55:24  <Timberwolf> Stations is pretty horrific, all the stations are hardcoded into a Go program which outputs the requisite NFO.
21:55:25  <andythenorth> there are problems with string IDs
21:55:36  <andythenorth> might be solvable by re-generating the strings
21:56:03  <andythenorth> this sounds like a nice project P
21:56:11  <andythenorth> 2021: the year the grfs combined
21:57:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8550: Feature: Remove all industries button in scenario editor https://git.io/JLhrf
21:58:07  <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> there are problems with string IDs <-- that's why i have a dummy callback that uses all strings
21:58:23  <andythenorth> glx oh that's a nice one )
21:58:45  <andythenorth> I see people ask about scenarios being tied to industry grfs quite often
21:59:46  <glx> I think it's a nice addition to scenario editor
22:00:31  <andythenorth> 1.11 might be a bit of a legendary release
22:01:31  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb
22:02:51  <andythenorth> @Timberwolf you don't do any livery or stats crap do you? (cargo subtypes, depot flip, company colour combos)
22:03:18  * andythenorth keeps trying to discord
22:03:25  <andythenorth> Timberwolf :P ^^
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22:18:33  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhrF
22:19:24  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Nope, it's boring old 2cc. I think there's a couple of PASS livery refits in Road Vehicles for the taxi cabs and one of the trams, and that's it.
22:19:36  <andythenorth> nvm :)
22:19:44  <Timberwolf> (So technically I do have cargo subtypes in one set)
22:20:18  * andythenorth seeking a spec :P
22:20:46  <andythenorth> my track record with newgrf spec is....weak
22:24:40  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhom
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22:36:21  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber updated pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLpdb
22:36:58  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8549: Codechange: On regression failure, output the result in a file https://git.io/JLhoQ
22:38:46  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] mattkimber commented on pull request #8540: Fix eeb88e8: Trains reversed while paused do not correctly update sprite bounds https://git.io/JLhoN
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22:39:10  <milek7> TrueBrain: replied in gist https://gist.github.com/Milek7/8482c4e87947f4748aea5d96b3e89b80#gistcomment-3588271
22:39:24  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8543: Fix #8272: vehicle destination text colour when mousing over https://git.io/JLhox
22:41:22  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8546: Doc: provide a visual representation of the company colour ranges https://git.io/JLhKe
22:41:51  <andythenorth> LordAro you could find and replace the css
22:42:07  <andythenorth> it was all generated originally so eh
22:42:43  <LordAro> yes, the issue with that is that it is no longer generated :p
22:43:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8543: Fix #8272: vehicle destination text colour when mousing over https://git.io/JLhIN
22:43:15  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8272: Stopped vehicule destination should be red when mouse over https://git.io/JJ35w
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22:43:29  <TrueBrain> 10 open issues for 1.11 :D :D
22:43:47  <andythenorth> I learnt years ago that stuff like inline css or not is things other people can worry about
22:44:01  <andythenorth> TrueBrain is that the magic number? :)
22:44:16  <TrueBrain> no, 0 is
22:44:21  <andythenorth> oooo
22:44:31  <TrueBrain> but removing things from the 1.11 milestone is fully an option :)
22:44:58  <andythenorth> is this going to be the best 1.11 we've ever done?
22:48:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8549: Codechange: On regression failure, output the result in a file https://git.io/JLha7
22:48:22  <TrueBrain> it is going to be the best 1.11.0, I promise you!
22:49:00  <TrueBrain> (especially as it is going to be the only one, for those missing the joke :P)
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22:54:54  <andythenorth> ok sleeping times
22:54:56  <andythenorth> zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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23:07:12  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LC-Zorg opened issue #8551: Flat maps of arctic and tropical climates are completely inaccessible https://git.io/JLh6Z
23:17:14  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8551: Flat maps of arctic and tropical climates are completely inaccessible https://git.io/JLh6Z
23:17:47  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp
23:19:10  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: w00p, lot of improvements :) Some quick feedback: we use /* */ comments on single lines :) (always something to complain :P)
23:20:16  <Eddi|zuHause> someone should test whether i broke it :p
23:20:38  <TrueBrain> haven't you? :)
23:21:42  <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Eddi-z updated pull request #8444: Feature: Close adjacent level crossings as if they were one large crossing https://git.io/JLDFp
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23:36:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm having a weird issue where it doesn't find a grf file that should be there...
23:36:25  <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm also having these weird layers of symlinks all over the place
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