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Log for #openttd.dev on 26th December 2012:
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12:46:08  <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1999/ <- fs#5406 and similiar issues
12:48:05  <Terkhen> is the second hunk related to the first one?
12:48:30  <frosch123> hmm, i can drop the tree shore case
12:48:43  <frosch123> there are no trees on tiles which can also have ships
12:49:31  <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2000/ <- updated
12:49:42  <frosch123> the first hunk is fs#5406
12:50:08  <frosch123> the second one in rail_cmd prevents ufos from crashing ottd by turning water with ships on it into land
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12:53:46  <Terkhen> oh, a nice corner case :P
12:53:49  <Terkhen> looks fine to me :)
12:54:54  <frosch123> actually, it does not crash since it checks for ships
12:55:00  <frosch123> but it should not clear water without ships anyway
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14:47:23  <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2001/ <- fs#5404
14:48:12  <frosch123> make resolving of recolour sprites deal with mapgen sprites just as for realsprites
14:48:41  <frosch123> i.e. do not crash, but print a debug message and then use the dark blue map
15:00:28  <andythenorth> vehicle.cpp - l2265 - would it be acceptable to add more cases to handle more smoke variants?
15:00:39  <andythenorth> for example, VE_TYPE_DIESEL_CONSTANT
15:01:01  <Terkhen> frosch123: sorry, no idea of what that code does; sprites are weird :P
15:01:14  <Terkhen> andythenorth: would those be able to handle all cases required by NewGRF authors?
15:01:20  <andythenorth> I don't know
15:01:30  <andythenorth> who knows what those are going to be?
15:01:40  <andythenorth> seems like a case of 'guess the future'
15:01:44  <Terkhen> yes :P
15:01:55  <andythenorth> meanwhile, it's *really* only graphics
15:02:00  <frosch123> andythenorth: does that really matter?
15:02:02  <andythenorth> the gameplay implication is minimal
15:02:11  <Terkhen> what I meant is "would that solution be able to handle new sprite cases"?
15:02:16  <andythenorth> no
15:02:27  <Terkhen> then it is Wrong(TM)
15:02:55  <Terkhen> but to me it sounds as if adding just new types would be enough, wouldn't it?
15:04:00  <frosch123> i thought newsmoke was about different sprites?
15:04:08  <frosch123> in different positions
15:04:50  <andythenorth> I don't see the case for different sprites
15:05:04  <andythenorth> I have no objection to them, but I don't see the benefit
15:05:21  <andythenorth> 'everything must be changeable by newgrf' might not include *everything* ?
15:05:55  <frosch123> like green or blue smoke depending on speed :)
15:06:09  <andythenorth> yeah, or martian smoke, or contrails, or ship wakes or so
15:06:41  <frosch123> well, i thought it was about heqs with two smoke sources etc
15:06:44  <frosch123> or ships
15:06:46  <andythenorth> yes
15:06:54  <andythenorth> hmm
15:06:58  <andythenorth> so there are 4 issues
15:07:02  <frosch123> well, you can also solve this by using custom sprites :p
15:07:15  <frosch123> just sprites with multiple steam clouds
15:07:37  <andythenorth> he
15:07:53  <frosch123> white smoke in the flats, black smoke when accelerating
15:08:16  <andythenorth> ok, so that could be viable
15:08:50  <Terkhen> "define number of sources" "define position of sources" "define sprites of sources"
15:09:18  <andythenorth> newgrf effect vehicles?
15:09:23  <frosch123> Terkhen: yeah, but maybe the third one can also solve the first two
15:10:30  <andythenorth> effect vehicles compositing n realsprites?
15:10:34  <Terkhen> "create a spritegroup that contains the smoke sprites that you want in the right places"?
15:10:38  <andythenorth> +1
15:12:21  <andythenorth> does the effect vehicle get a full varact 2 chain?
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15:46:15  <andythenorth> so when ottd tries to draw an effect vehicle for a vehicle, the vehice returns which EV to use....
15:46:29  <andythenorth> and EVs are defined by newgrf
15:46:42  <andythenorth> or vehicle returns 'none'
15:46:56  <andythenorth> how does ottd decide when to try drawing an EV?
15:48:37  <frosch123> just keep the build-in methods for now
15:48:59  <frosch123> don't add  a calback which would need running every tick for every vehicle :p
15:49:52  <andythenorth> +1 :P
15:49:54  <andythenorth> reallyu
15:50:15  <andythenorth> "let's evaluate the entire vehicle chain to decide whether to draw a small puff of smoke or not"
15:50:19  <andythenorth> but people would :P
15:51:38  <andythenorth> "this consist includes coaches which have electric heating: +10% smoker per carriage"
15:52:07  <andythenorth> "this consist contains coach of type xyz, and one set of brakes was known to drag on that model between 1975 and 1976, so aff 0.3% smoke"
15:57:32  <andythenorth> the same objection applies to allowing newgrf to specify current EV?
15:57:39  <andythenorth> but at much lower frequency?
15:58:29  <frosch123> yes
16:00:16  <andythenorth> hmm
16:01:17  <andythenorth> with the option for newgrf to specify EV, the current three algorithms for generating effects might suffice to cover most cases
16:04:54  <frosch123> hmm, is it ok to remove strings which have only been translated by 29 languages?
16:05:01  <frosch123> or should i wait for the lazy translators :p
16:06:24  <Terkhen> which strings are you going to remove?
16:06:35  <frosch123> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_RESTRICT_CHANGED_AGAINST_DEFAULT_WO_LOCAL    :Non-client settings with a different value than the default
16:07:19  <Terkhen> why? :P
16:07:40  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/typefilter.png <- it's redundant
16:08:02  <frosch123> the WO_LOCAL part can also be done with the other dropdown
16:16:13  <Terkhen> oh, ok :)
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16:26:29  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/stuff6/ <- add that setting type filter
16:26:36  <frosch123> and move full animation to game options
16:26:39  <frosch123> next to the full screen
16:39:59  <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/fullanim.png <- hmm, though it does not exactly fit into "screen resolution" :s
16:40:29  <frosch123> i wonder how hard it is to select the blitter in the gui
16:40:43  <frosch123> we can switch to 32bpp, but i am not sure whether we can switch back :p
16:41:14  <planetmaker> s/Screen resolution/Screen settings/
16:41:20  <planetmaker> then it would fit
16:41:36  <planetmaker> or "Display settings"
16:41:41  <frosch123> hmm, i'll try to move the town name to mapgen
16:41:48  <frosch123> then add a blitter in game options
16:41:58  <planetmaker> also "road vehicles" belongs there
16:41:59  <frosch123> "8bpp", "8bpp, 32bpp on demand", "32bpp"
16:42:02  <planetmaker> or in adv. settings
16:42:24  <planetmaker> the blitter then could also go into display settings
16:43:05  <planetmaker> and... imho currency and measuring units go into adv. settings
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16:45:11  <andythenorth> would newgrf effect vehicles be only available to the grf that defines them?  (seems sanest to me)
16:46:34  <frosch123> damn, now pm shuffled the whole mapgen thingie onto me :p
16:46:53  <frosch123> i cannot see the light anymore :)
16:46:58  <planetmaker> :-X
16:47:17  * planetmaker brings some light to frosch123 
16:48:11  <andythenorth> reworking settings?
16:48:30  <frosch123> andythenorth: what have we done all year? :p
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17:49:33  <frosch123> planetmaker: Terkhen: poke :p
17:49:39  <Terkhen> thanks :)
17:49:47  <planetmaker> :-) thanks
17:50:00  <frosch123> oh, btw. does wt3 display usuful similar texts?
17:50:08  <frosch123> i only changed the pluralness
17:50:48  <frosch123> but i am not sure who wt3 decides similiarness
17:56:27  <planetmaker> yes, that works
17:56:44  <planetmaker> string names and string contents are searched for similarity
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17:57:52  <frosch123> hmm, i ran sed on an outdated checkout
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19:03:17  <andythenorth> would newgrf effect vehicles have full set of varact 2 vars?
19:03:29  <andythenorth> + cbs
19:03:42  <andythenorth> or could they be made quite stupid, i.e. just stepping through animated frames?
19:08:33  <frosch123> you obviously want to influence them during the creation
19:08:48  <frosch123> but you do not want to give them access to the original vehicle after creation
19:09:05  <frosch123> so, yeah, just a single set of anim frames might be useful
19:09:22  <frosch123> would also reduce the number of cbs again :p
19:09:35  <frosch123> a single cb on spawning, and a single cb on drawing if visible
19:11:37  <andythenorth> wfm
19:11:57  <andythenorth> I have been slightly against the newgrf effect vehicle route, because it seems like more complexity
19:12:11  <andythenorth> but that's the only reasons
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