Log for #openttdcoop on 18th January 2010:
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09:43:11  <Phazorx> .
09:43:18  <heffer> ./
09:44:00  <Phazorx> got some weird issues
09:44:04  <Phazorx> cant join #openttd
09:44:15  <Phazorx> is it +i now or am i banned somehow?
09:46:44  <planetmaker> uhm... you are IN that channel?
09:47:11  <planetmaker> ^ Phazorx ?
09:48:45  <planetmaker> for actually already nearly an hour
09:49:15  <planetmaker> e.g. as long as you're in this channel
10:01:45  <Phazorx> lost the window :)
10:01:53  <Phazorx> planetmaker halp me, lol
10:02:33  <Phazorx>  undefined reference to `png_create_write_struct'
10:03:29  <Phazorx> $ grep libpng12 src/Makefile
10:03:30  <Phazorx> PNG_CFLAGS = -Ic:/mingw/include/libpng12\
10:04:51  <Phazorx> $ nm c:/mingw/lib/libpng12.a | grep png_create_write_struct
10:04:52  <Phazorx> 000012a8 T _png_create_write_struct
10:04:52  <Phazorx> 00001020 T _png_create_write_struct_2
10:05:20  <Phazorx> symbols are there, compiler has includes, linker got libs... why is it failing?
10:11:10  <Phazorx> planetmaker:
10:11:11  <Webster> Title: Paste2: Next Generation Pastebin - Viewing Paste 618601 (at
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10:37:55  <planetmaker> I've no idea about those things, Phazorx
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14:08:39  <V453000> lol LevA Gator doesnt slow even on wooden bridge?
14:08:42  <V453000> damn! :D
14:53:59  <Phazorx> any cmake users?
14:54:14  <V453000> cmake? :D
14:54:51  <Phazorx> as in crossplatform makefile generator
14:55:12  <V453000> I dont even have an idea what that is :D
14:55:35  <Phazorx> makes 2 of us actually
14:55:56  <V453000> :)
14:58:14  <Razaekel> !password
14:58:14  <PublicServer> Razaekel: geeing
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16:18:39  <Intexon> !password
16:18:39  <PublicServer> Intexon: kinder
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16:52:29  <jondisti> !password
16:52:29  <PublicServer> jondisti: breezy
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17:22:33  <MDGrein> !dl
17:22:33  <PublicServer> MDGrein: !dl autostart|autottd|autoupdate|lin|lin64|osx|win32|win64|win9x
17:22:37  <MDGrein> !dl win32
17:22:37  <PublicServer> MDGrein:
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17:34:58  <MDGrein> !pw
17:35:04  <MDGrein> !help
17:35:04  <PublicServer> MDGrein:
17:35:33  <MDGrein> !password
17:35:33  <PublicServer> MDGrein: fondly
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17:58:53  <KenjiE20> V453000: is that you writing a new SML entry?
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18:07:19  <V453000> I just updated the SML wiki page
18:07:22  <V453000> @sml
18:07:22  <Webster> sml: Shift Main Line, see also:
18:08:38  <KenjiE20> not great, since the old research is still there
18:09:06  <V453000> I didnt really have the balls to delete anything from anyone
18:10:01  <KenjiE20> should've been a new article tbh
18:10:44  <V453000> feel free to reedit in any shape
18:11:09  <Thraxian|Work> The SML article probably needs to have a basic page indicating the general idea and the goal, then links to pages with more sophisticated SML designs.
18:11:26  <V453000> Osai said about a week ago it needs updating ... I just added the new stuff as I really have too much respect to the people who wrote anything to modify it
18:11:43  <V453000> you are both right and I understand
18:11:48  <KenjiE20> @wiki ReviewEvent
18:11:50  <Webster> ReviewEvent - #openttdcoop Wiki -
18:12:00  <KenjiE20> ^ see the entry in LookedAt
18:12:36  <Thraxian|Work> looks good
18:12:38  <KenjiE20> I'll remove your stuff from the existing and move the old page
18:12:45  <KenjiE20> then Replace your stuff back
18:12:52  <V453000> wait
18:12:59  <V453000> I dont have it saved anywhere
18:13:19  <KenjiE20> note my second line
18:13:24  <Thraxian|Work> let's create the new SML page, then do the renaming
18:13:44  <KenjiE20> better Idea, I'll take the old content out
18:13:47  <V453000> Thraxian: that would make sense :)
18:13:49  <Thraxian|Work> the new SML page will basically be the "premise" at the top
18:13:51  <KenjiE20> and dump that ina new page
18:13:53  <V453000> thank you
18:14:00  <Thraxian|Work> then the existing page would be the new "research" page
18:14:12  <Thraxian|Work> eventually divided into several different pages, perhaps
18:15:43  <Thraxian|Work> in fact, the new page should probably be Shift_Mainline (singular), to be more consistent with the existing Mainline and Sideline pages.
18:16:03  <KenjiE20> probably
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18:16:21  <KenjiE20> I've copied to old research to Shift_Mainlines_(Research)
18:16:41  <KenjiE20> feel free to mod the original page freely
18:17:26  <Thraxian|Work> I'm editing Shift_Mainline now.  Rewording it to be a general and objective description of what SML is.  From there, we can link to pages containing different implementations of SML.
18:17:56  <V453000> Thraxian: yes, that will keep nice structure :)
18:18:36  <KenjiE20> I'll update the review page, and mark you two against SML rewrites
18:18:52  <Mark> moo
18:18:56  <V453000> :D
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18:42:56  <Phazorx> V453000:
18:42:58  <Phazorx> Proper Shifter
18:43:09  <Phazorx> there is one minor error
18:43:33  <Phazorx> look at
18:43:49  <Phazorx> and compare where the lane link signal is on that one and on yours
18:45:45  <Phazorx> actully, all shifters on failsafe and hybrid pictures has that issue
18:46:18  <Phazorx> which is very unnecessary, by prolonging distance between choose and link signals you make it more prone to stopping changing train for no reason
18:47:30  <V453000> I cant say I understand what do you mean
18:47:40  <V453000> anyways .... it works perfectly
18:48:30  <Mark> Phazorx: the one on your pic is quite outdated
18:50:01  <Phazorx> Mark: that's due to openttd changes
18:50:06  <Phazorx> it used to work perfectly
18:50:15  <Phazorx> but, that's besides the point i ammaking
18:50:41  <Phazorx> there are 4 diagonal half tiles of link between lanes
18:50:57  <V453000> there is actually said that there are many modifications, but well ... these are used for quite some time so I just put them like some example
18:51:10  <Phazorx> one right after choose signal and it is a split tile and you can not put a signal there
18:51:25  <Phazorx> next half tile after that is where i put presignals
18:51:50  <Phazorx> making total distance between chooser and link presingnal = 0.5 tiles
18:52:25  <V453000> that should not be an issue
18:52:30  <Phazorx> which means that there is little room for incomming train to stop switching train from actually switching due to another train entering prio watching bock
18:52:42  <Phazorx> on V453000's images he puts a signal one tile further
18:53:06  <Phazorx> which maes distance of 1.0 tiles for train to thin
18:53:25  <Phazorx> also, since pathfinder reserves in half tiles when moving diagonal
18:54:11  <PeterT> @coopstats
18:54:11  <Webster>
18:54:14  <V453000> the point is there are not the entrance-exit presignals at the entry of the bypass/shiftbuffer ... if thats what you mean
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18:54:28  <V453000> :<
18:55:09  <V453000> he left :|
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18:56:35  <V453000> Mark: you get the issue Phazorx meant in these shifters?
18:56:43  <V453000> I dont get it somehow :<
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18:57:21  <Phazorx> sorry... technical dificulties here...
18:57:24  <V453000> :)
18:57:27  <Phazorx> anyway i'll finish my line of thought
18:57:32  <V453000> yeah
18:57:35  <V453000> willing to listen
18:58:24  <Mark> V453000: yours looks fine with me, also worked fine in tens of games
18:58:30  <Mark> anyway i'm getting coffee
18:58:35  <V453000> :) cya
18:59:51  <Phazorx> trains recerve their pathing on diagonals base on half tiles, so in my case travel distance (and hence time) when switching train can be "overrun" by another train entering prio block is between when it passed the chooser signal and before it entered first half tile of link (which has signal on it)
19:00:06  <Phazorx> basicaly there is 1/4th of tile distance when it might happen
19:00:25  <Phazorx> in your case since you moved the signal half tile more that distance is trippled
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19:00:58  <Phazorx> and train reserves first empty half tiles, where it can be easily stopped if a full speed train enters prio block
19:01:10  <Phazorx> so your example is like 3 times less fault tollerant
19:01:19  <Techinica> !password
19:01:19  <PublicServer> Techinica: bayous
19:01:25  <Phazorx> i made a point of that in early games where SML was only introduced
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19:02:16  <V453000> I think I understand
19:02:19  <Phazorx> also, due to "modern" new and improved engine you have to have proper presignaling for switcher
19:02:19  <V453000> but I am not sure
19:02:32  <V453000> you dont
19:02:52  <Phazorx> which is a bad thing, since under certain circumstanes that causes double signal intrval
19:02:59  <Phazorx> but that i'm not even sure why happened
19:03:14  <V453000> there isnt needed the presignal thingy
19:03:18  <V453000> at all
19:03:36  <Phazorx> that depends if you want trains to switch or not
19:04:21  <V453000> of course you do ... otherwise the shifter would be useless
19:04:36  <Phazorx> but you also need to avoid blocking the ML
19:04:44  <V453000> yes
19:04:47  <Phazorx> so train that comes to chooser should have otpions
19:04:48  <V453000> that is included
19:04:56  <V453000> it has
19:05:01  <V453000> but well ... not presignaled
19:05:02  <Phazorx> either switch or to keep on going in same lane
19:05:12  <Thraxian|Work> initial draft complete for shift mainline
19:05:13  <V453000> they will switch here...
19:05:16  <Thraxian|Work> @wiki Shift_Mainline
19:05:18  <Webster> Shift Mainline - #openttdcoop Wiki -
19:05:26  <Phazorx> if it is not presignaled - PF will choose the path before getting to switcher
19:05:32  <Thraxian|Work> needs images, though.  kinda wordy
19:05:39  <V453000> nice
19:05:40  <Phazorx> and will try to go wchiever way it thinks it wants
19:05:50  <Phazorx> but that might not be "available" way
19:05:56  <V453000> it works
19:06:01  <Phazorx> so it might just enter link and see red
19:06:06  <V453000> no
19:06:11  <V453000> it goes to the bypass
19:06:19  <Phazorx> ?
19:06:33  <Phazorx> which switcher we are talkign about?
19:06:35  <V453000> Thraxian|Work: nice :)
19:06:52  <V453000> we are talking about my SML pictures arent we?
19:07:13  <Phazorx> V453000: they just fot nixed apparently
19:07:40  <V453000> I think it would be most simple if you sent me an email with marked image what is the issue in your opinion :) I apparently got lost
19:07:42  <Phazorx> and i was pointing out that you moved the signal
19:08:11  <Phazorx> we'll get into a game at some pint at same time
19:08:15  <Phazorx> and i'll show/explain
19:08:19  <V453000> I cant this week
19:08:24  <V453000> maybe even two
19:08:25  <Phazorx> neither can i
19:08:28  <V453000> got bad laptop
19:08:29  <V453000> good
19:08:30  <V453000> :)
19:08:38  <Phazorx> well lucky me i got good laptop
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19:09:31  <V453000> I got a new one because mine went to the "repairers" because it overheated all the time ... with this one I am somehow unable to see any games, nor create one
19:10:33  <V453000> in about 2 weeks I will have my own back finally
19:11:23  <Phazorx> should have just vacuumed it :)
19:11:29  <V453000> :d
19:11:50  <Phazorx> that's number one reason for overheating laptops
19:12:00  <Phazorx> i clean mines once per 3 months
19:12:12  <V453000> oh you mean to clean it
19:12:22  <V453000> no it was completely clean
19:12:27  <Phazorx> inside?
19:12:33  <V453000> yes
19:12:38  <V453000> the first thing I checked
19:12:55  <V453000> on the ASUS forums they wrote it happens to this model ... :S
19:13:32  <Phazorx> whcih one u got?
19:13:51  <V453000> I think M50 or something like that
19:13:54  <Phazorx> M50SV here :)
19:13:58  <V453000> but my brain remembors nothing
19:13:59  <V453000> oh
19:14:00  <V453000> :D
19:14:33  <V453000> AMD and Nvidia or Intel and ATi ?
19:14:52  <Phazorx> it does run warm if my wife plays Oblivion or i encode videos... but it's supposed to be like that
19:15:00  <V453000> yeah
19:15:08  <Phazorx> err... M50S comes only with ATI or nVidia
19:15:22  <V453000> yes I am asking which :D
19:15:31  <Phazorx> i have GF 9500 GS here (standard for M50SV)
19:15:35  <V453000> ya
19:15:47  <V453000> that has my friend exactly
19:15:50  <V453000> I have ATi
19:16:17  <V453000> when I was playing even Warcraft 3 it just suddenly turned off as it overheated
19:16:39  <V453000> and well ... W3 is not anything demanding heavy performance
19:16:42  <Phazorx> my gpu goes to 70C under heaviest load for a while
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19:17:13  <V453000> I dont know about the temperature but it was terribly hot ... you couldnt hold your hand on it from the bottom side
19:17:36  <Phazorx> definatelly too hot
19:17:48  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> wow - still on this game, huh?
19:18:07  <V453000> Thraxian: you mean it lasts for quite long?
19:18:33  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> in real-time, yes.  game-time, I have yet to see it with trains moving :)
19:18:46  <V453000> yes
19:18:55  <V453000> about two weeks already?
19:19:13  <V453000> since 2nd :D
19:19:21  <V453000> 16 days
19:19:25  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> these signals are becoming more and more invisible
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19:20:11  <V453000> either you are getting blind or your screen is getting smaller :D
19:20:29  <V453000> or you use OpenGFX???
19:20:38  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> opengfx, unfortunately
19:20:42  <V453000> oh
19:20:45  <V453000> hmmm
19:20:54  <V453000> I dislike it quite a lot :(
19:21:06  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> indeed
19:21:33  <V453000> so why you use it? :D
19:21:56  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> don't have the other files readily available right now
19:22:12  <V453000> oh :)
19:22:36  <V453000> I just update the nightlies by overwriting the old files with the new one
19:26:40  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> I see that signal gaps are still a problem...
19:26:48  <V453000> ?
19:27:34  <V453000> you mean someone forgot signals or that someone didnt make a gap for a waiting space or such?
19:27:47  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> forgotten signals
19:28:05  <V453000> oh
19:28:09  <V453000> hmmm .. happens
19:28:55  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> I've found 7 already
19:29:11  <V453000> oh :|
19:29:27  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> and I haven't looked at 1/2 the tracks yet
19:30:29  <V453000> bad bad :)
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19:37:11  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> at 10 now - and calling it quits
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19:37:26  <V453000> :)
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19:40:52  <lomba> !password
19:40:52  <PublicServer> lomba: scanty
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19:50:09  <LittleBoyRick> !password
19:50:09  <PublicServer> LittleBoyRick: smacks
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19:58:40  <Techinica> !password
19:58:40  <PublicServer> Techinica: smacks
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20:11:26  <PeterT> Hmm
20:11:33  <PeterT> Nice nick
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21:08:41  <sietse> !info
21:08:42  <PublicServer> sietse: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'New Safingley Transport'  Year Founded: 1960  Money: 8909400941  Loan: 0  Value: 8915609605  (T:1127, R:0, P:0, S:0) unprotected
21:09:25  <sietse> !password
21:09:25  <PublicServer> sietse: staked
21:09:32  <PublicServer> *** Sietse joined the game
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21:51:51  <Osai> hi all
21:54:47  <Osai> V453000: I like the Hybird Shifter!
21:59:59  <Thraxian|Work> hi Osai
22:00:07  <Osai> hey Thraxian|Work
22:01:08  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian joined the game
22:01:33  <Osai> this game is almost done
22:01:41  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> good :)
22:01:48  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> I haven't ever seen trains moving on it :)
22:01:55  <V453000> :D
22:02:01  <V453000> hi Osai
22:02:09  <V453000> thank you :)
22:02:55  <Osai> the next stage is a "Hybrid SML System"
22:03:15  <V453000> you mean like a whole array?
22:03:20  <V453000> already exists ;)
22:03:35  *** Intexon has quit IRC
22:03:39  <Thraxian|Work> "All we need is a red every 0.000wtf seconds" - ???
22:03:50  <V453000> it is simple
22:03:55  <Thraxian|Work> I dunno if that verbage is appropriate for the wiki :)
22:04:03  <V453000> :D feel free to edit it
22:04:10  <hylje> using wtf as a placeholder name is very appropriate
22:04:25  <MDGrein> !password
22:04:25  <PublicServer> MDGrein: taunts
22:04:34  <PublicServer> *** MDGrein joined the game
22:04:51  <PublicServer> *** MDGrein has left the game (connection lost)
22:04:51  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
22:05:21  <V453000> :)
22:05:41  <PublicServer> *** MDGrein joined the game
22:06:20  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> ooh - the trains are moving!
22:06:21  <PublicServer> *** MDGrein has left the game (connection lost)
22:06:21  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
22:06:27  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> and now they're not :(
22:06:34  <MDGrein> desync...
22:06:40  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has joined spectators
22:06:43  <MDGrein> I have some massive lag issues over here...
22:06:47  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> join now
22:06:54  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> and once you're securely connected, I'll switch back
22:07:15  <PublicServer> *** MDGrein joined the game
22:07:23  <PublicServer> <MDGrein> ere we go
22:07:28  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has joined company #1
22:09:08  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> why do people insist on making those figure 8 endless trains?
22:09:15  <PublicServer> <Thraxian> they're SO over-done....
22:09:40  <V453000> I have no idea
22:09:44  <V453000> I find it quite dumb
22:12:46  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has left the game (connection lost)
22:12:46  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
22:12:52  <Thraxian|Work> doh
22:13:43  <MDGrein> ^^
22:14:32  <V453000> I see we are having some real trouble with connecting this game
22:14:54  <MDGrein> it lags like hell in a handbag when it works
22:15:12  <MDGrein> or atleast it lags in waves
22:15:22  <MDGrein> donno wtf is up....
22:16:27  <V453000> when I was at home on wifi it was disconnecting all the time ... but my wifi is very poor so I was not really surprised
22:17:48  <MDGrein> I can't remember having lag issues on my laptop, only a sluggish game from slow comp... but this is my fullgrown comp
22:18:04  <MDGrein> not that it in any way excludes latency issues
22:20:26  <MDGrein> gah, there's so much new stuff my mind can't take it
22:21:03  *** PeterT|ChatZilla has joined #openttdcoop
22:21:58  *** PeterT|ChatZilla is now known as PeterT_
22:22:27  <PublicServer> *** Kenji joined the game
22:22:31  <PublicServer> *** Kenji has joined company #1
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22:27:40  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian joined the game
22:27:47  <PublicServer> <Kenji> long trains are long
22:28:41  <V453000> Osai: the perfect-working Hybrid with Lev4 means there can be a SML join every 90 tiles
22:29:20  <Osai> thats fairly enough I think
22:29:21  <V453000> (fully loaded TL5 Lev4 with 2 engines)
22:29:30  <Thraxian|Work> I'm zoomed all the way in, in a remote corner where nothing changes, running 800x600, and lagging like crazy
22:29:38  <Osai> how many tiles does a Lev4 travel per sec?
22:29:46  <PublicServer> <Kenji> I'm managing okat
22:29:48  <PublicServer> <Kenji> okay*
22:29:49  <V453000> dunno
22:29:55  <V453000> you can count that :P
22:30:10  <PublicServer> <Kenji> usual weird SDL jumpiness is all
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22:31:13  <PublicServer> <Kenji> soo this game done?
22:31:20  <Thraxian|Work> yes, please yes.
22:31:25  <PublicServer> <Kenji> heh
22:31:40  <Thraxian|Work> unless you feel like fixing the 10 signal gaps I signed :)
22:31:52  <PublicServer> <Kenji> not particulatrly
22:31:56  <Thraxian|Work> woulda fixed them but 1) lag and 2) nobody else was online when I found em
22:32:17  <Thraxian|Work> some of em are pretty boneheaded
22:32:42  <PublicServer> <Kenji> so I see
22:32:48  <V453000> boneheaded means something like stupid? :)
22:33:00  <PublicServer> *** Kolo joined the game
22:33:12  <PublicServer> <Kenji> wow that one's dumb
22:33:19  <PublicServer> *** Kolo has left the game (connection lost)
22:33:44  <PublicServer> <Kenji> meh, that one's a split anyway
22:34:05  <PublicServer> <Kenji> that one I can't be arsed to fix, as it's in a shifter
22:34:39  <PublicServer> <Kenji> with traffic of a train every minute
22:34:49  <PublicServer> *** Kolo joined the game
22:35:12  <PublicServer> <Kenji> there we go
22:35:19  <PublicServer> *** Kenji has left the game (leaving)
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22:36:20  <Thraxian|Work> I wish I knew which ones you were talking about....
22:36:55  <Thraxian|Work> the one in the shifter causes a 6 ga0 = not cool
22:37:01  <Thraxian|Work> ga0 = gap
22:37:14  <KenjiE20> yea, but it gets trains so rarely it's not worth the effort
22:37:48  <Thraxian|Work> I totally disagree with that logic, but fine.
22:38:10  <V453000> :D
22:38:11  <KenjiE20> okay, it's not worth the effort seeing as the games on the cusp of archiveness
22:38:20  <Thraxian|Work> that, I can agree with
22:38:22  <PublicServer> *** Kolo has left the game (connection lost)
22:38:23  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
22:38:54  <PublicServer> *** Kolo joined the game
22:39:10  <PublicServer> *** Kolo has left the game (connection lost)
22:39:10  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
22:39:20  <KenjiE20> hmmmmm
22:39:20  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has joined spectators
22:39:28  <KenjiE20> update seems to be updating just about everything...
22:39:55  <KenjiE20> oh great, and there's a C in there
22:40:16  <KenjiE20> lots of them
22:40:24  <Thraxian|Work> ?
22:40:40  <KenjiE20> Conflict
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22:42:16  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has joined company #1
22:43:21  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has joined spectators
22:43:29  <KenjiE20> @stage Finalising
22:43:29  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #172 (r18758) | STAGE: Finalising | | New players, use @quickstart & !help | Screenshots: | Coopetition ladder:"
22:43:45  <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has left the game (leaving)
22:48:15  <V453000> :]
22:48:41  <PeterT> [:
22:49:28  <Thraxian|Work> ' . _ (picasso)
22:50:05  <V453000> nice
22:50:27  <KenjiE20> @ (modern art)
22:51:40  *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop
22:52:03  <V453000> ASS!!! (urban art)
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23:36:37  <V453000> good that there is the "train stopper
23:36:48  <V453000> I can recognize single shifters :D
23:54:43  <roysvork> what up gang
23:54:53  <roysvork> finalising now eh?
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