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00:00:05 *** ^Spike^ has quit IRC 00:00:23 <V453000> yeah 00:00:47 <V453000> well ... see you folks, i am off to bed 00:01:01 *** heffer_ has joined #openttdcoop 00:02:03 *** V453000 has quit IRC 00:04:18 *** heffer has quit IRC 00:07:14 *** pugi has quit IRC 00:25:28 *** heffer has joined #openttdcoop 00:27:08 *** heffer_ has quit IRC 00:34:23 *** patchbot has joined #openttdcoop 00:36:47 *** heffer has quit IRC 00:41:20 *** heffer has joined #openttdcoop 00:43:10 *** Phazorx has left #openttdcoop 00:49:08 *** heffer has quit IRC 00:59:32 *** Zulan has quit IRC 00:59:55 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:05:55 <PublicServer> *** Sietse has left the game (leaving) 01:10:27 *** KenjiE20|LT has joined #openttdcoop 01:10:27 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o KenjiE20|LT 01:10:30 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 01:10:38 *** roysvork has quit IRC 01:23:29 *** patchbot has quit IRC 01:29:31 *** patchbot has joined #openttdcoop 01:33:09 *** patchbot has quit IRC 01:39:35 *** patchbot has joined #openttdcoop 01:42:22 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian joined the game 01:42:32 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has joined spectators 01:42:54 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has left the game (connection lost) 01:46:49 *** sietse has quit IRC 01:49:05 *** Gleeb has quit IRC 02:47:54 *** KenjiE20|LT has quit IRC 03:14:36 *** PeterT has quit IRC 04:19:36 *** CrashHD` has joined #openttdcoop 04:26:20 *** CrashHD has quit IRC 04:26:20 *** CrashHD` is now known as CrashHD 04:30:04 <sparr> yay @ finalising 04:30:32 <sparr> I had hoped that disappearing for the better part of a week would leave me a new game as a present when I returned... I'll take "Finalising" as a consolation prize :) 05:03:36 *** Fuco has quit IRC 05:13:01 *** SirSquidness has left #openttdcoop 05:15:08 <De_Ghosty> ottdcoop is only fun at the start 05:15:10 <De_Ghosty> and in the middle 05:15:16 <De_Ghosty> whcih last for like days 05:15:22 <De_Ghosty> then no one wantt touch it 05:15:23 <De_Ghosty> lol 05:15:31 <evilNirvana> xD 06:25:41 *** Polygon has joined #openttdcoop 06:53:31 *** Polygon has quit IRC 07:46:00 *** ^Spike^ has joined #openttdcoop 07:46:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ^Spike^ 08:02:49 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop 08:02:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ODM 08:39:59 *** cornjuliox has joined #openttdcoop 08:48:35 <cornjuliox> @quickstart 08:48:37 <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart 08:48:59 <cornjuliox> !password 08:48:59 <PublicServer> cornjuliox: typhus 08:49:59 <PublicServer> *** cornjuliox joined the game 08:58:06 <PublicServer> *** cornjuliox has left the game (leaving) 09:12:32 *** heffer has joined #openttdcoop 09:14:01 *** cornjuliox has quit IRC 09:27:50 *** Phazorx has joined #openttdcoop 09:58:55 <Mark> morning folks 09:59:11 <Mark> !password 09:59:11 <PublicServer> Mark: vanity 09:59:30 <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game 10:00:05 <PublicServer> <Mark> if nothing else, we at least learned something about high capicity SRNW this game :) 10:08:23 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving) 10:49:05 <Phazorx> i kinda missed the game - what did we learn? 11:12:34 *** heffer_ has joined #openttdcoop 11:16:10 *** CrashHD` has joined #openttdcoop 11:17:33 *** V453000 has joined #openttdcoop 11:19:33 *** heffer has quit IRC 11:23:35 *** CrashHD has quit IRC 11:23:35 *** CrashHD` is now known as CrashHD 12:06:52 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttdcoop 12:06:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o KenjiE20 12:58:21 *** Intexon has joined #openttdcoop 13:17:40 *** void^ has joined #openttdcoop 13:19:04 *** Hyppy has joined #openttdcoop 13:19:47 <Hyppy> !password 13:19:47 <PublicServer> Hyppy: shyest 13:20:03 <PublicServer> *** Hyppy joined the game 13:20:05 <V453000> hi Hyppy :) 13:20:56 <PublicServer> <Hyppy> Heya! 13:24:16 *** Intexon has quit IRC 13:28:43 *** Thraxian|Work has joined #openttdcoop 13:28:43 *** Webster sets mode: +o Thraxian|Work 13:42:51 <PublicServer> *** Hyppy has left the game (leaving) 14:04:23 *** Phazorx has left #openttdcoop 14:09:56 *** AdTheRat has quit IRC 14:29:56 *** AdTheRat has joined #openttdcoop 14:35:19 *** void^ has quit IRC 14:37:29 *** heffer_ is now known as heffer 14:44:34 *** Hribek has joined #openttdcoop 14:45:25 *** Intexon has joined #openttdcoop 14:45:26 *** Hribek has quit IRC 15:02:36 <Intexon> @logs 15:02:36 <Webster> Logs: http://hyru.ath.cx:60080/~kenji/ottdcoop/ 15:06:31 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop 15:07:14 <Chris_Booth> !password 15:07:14 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: typhus 15:07:30 *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop 15:07:36 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game 15:07:42 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has joined spectators 15:07:58 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has changed his/her name to Chris Booth Spec 15:08:01 *** void^ has joined #openttdcoop 15:08:30 <PublicServer> *** Intexon joined the game 15:09:09 <Chris_Booth> !password 15:09:09 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: typhus 15:09:14 <V453000> welcome back Chris :) 15:09:24 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game 15:29:07 *** Dred_furst has joined #openttdcoop 15:29:31 <Chris_Booth> hello V453000 15:29:35 <Chris_Booth> i think we need a new game 15:30:29 <Chris_Booth> !archive 15:30:29 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/ProZone:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/MemberZone:Archive 15:32:09 <Chris_Booth> this game has been going on for 17 days 15:32:23 <Chris_Booth> but seems to have some interesting buildingd 15:34:58 *** lomba has joined #openttdcoop 15:36:07 <V453000> yeah 15:36:31 <V453000> the game is for so long because it still could be improved probably :| 15:36:32 <V453000> !date 15:36:32 <PublicServer> V453000: 12 Apr 2293 15:36:35 <V453000> hmmm 15:36:55 <Mark> V453000: did you make a new map yet? 15:36:57 <V453000> dunno havent seen it for 2 days 15:37:09 <V453000> Mark: no, why me? :) 15:37:23 <Mark> well, that explains why we have no new game yet 15:37:23 <KenjiE20> Mark: waiting on update, maps already up 15:37:30 <Mark> k 15:37:39 <V453000> I am not complaining we have no map :) 15:37:55 <PublicServer> *** Intexon has left the game (connection lost) 15:40:22 *** Intexon has quit IRC 15:42:26 *** X-BT has joined #openttdcoop 15:45:26 <Chris_Booth> we have loads of map on the wiki 15:45:41 <Chris_Booth> you could just reset one of them if there wasnt a map 15:45:49 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (connection lost) 15:46:14 <planetmaker> reset has the disadvantage that newgrfs don't change 15:46:14 <V453000> :) 15:46:23 <planetmaker> and hello everyone :-) 15:48:14 <V453000> hi pm 15:48:18 <Chris_Booth> that is true planetmaker but if we re-played an old map and didnt tell people 15:48:27 <Chris_Booth> then compair in the wiki after to see the difference 15:48:31 <Mark> heh 15:48:32 <V453000> :D 15:48:45 <Mark> or load an ancient map with the same ancient plan 15:48:56 <Mark> like pile transport or something 15:49:17 <Chris_Booth> yeah just to see what we do differently now 15:49:26 <Chris_Booth> and how much better or worse the outcome is 15:51:05 <Chris_Booth> what would also me funny is if we loaded an old stable or nightly which you couldnt build diagonals under bridges 15:51:12 <Chris_Booth> or was missing some other new features 15:51:35 <planetmaker> Chris_Booth, indeed a nice idea. But then we should kinda pre-determine the plan also (same as in previous game) 15:51:40 <planetmaker> actually I like the idea. 15:52:22 <planetmaker> uh... na, we shouldn't do that. Available nightly binaries only range back two months or so anyway 15:52:36 <Chris_Booth> only issue with map reset it that town names change and inudstry locations change if reset in a newer stable version than created in 15:53:35 <Mark> do they? 15:54:05 <planetmaker> might be, if algorithms changed. And they possibly did. 15:54:14 <V453000> why not just create a new map with random? 15:54:43 <Chris_Booth> no reason why not V453000 15:54:43 <planetmaker> :-) Also an option. You go for it? ;-) 15:55:07 <planetmaker> But that's what usually happens anyway. So... nothing new and exciting in that. 15:55:08 <V453000> I got really messed up config now 15:55:11 <Mark> V453000: because we like trying out new stuff :P 15:55:19 <V453000> :) 15:56:26 <Mark> i think pile transport would be a good one for replaying 15:56:29 <Mark> because it's a classic 15:56:34 <Mark> and ancient :P 15:57:04 <V453000> pile transport? 15:57:12 <Mark> yeah 15:57:14 <Mark> MZG04 15:58:46 <Mark> i'm afraid we'd have to derive the plan from the final save though, as they used to delete the plans back then 15:59:35 <V453000> oh 15:59:55 <V453000> oh so you mean playing some plan again? 15:59:58 <V453000> or just the map? 16:00:04 <Mark> both 16:00:10 <Mark> same map, same plan 16:00:11 <V453000> interesting 16:00:14 <Osai> we need 4way BBH then 16:00:20 <V453000> could be nice to compare :) 16:00:22 <Mark> yeah, 9 of them :P 16:00:40 <Mark> good training though, and doable with TL2 LL_RR 16:01:53 <Osai> TL2 ? 16:01:58 <Osai> isn't TL3 16:02:03 <planetmaker> I like the idea. Pile transport is considered classic indeed. 16:02:13 <planetmaker> Even Rubi knows about that game and uses it as reference ;-) 16:02:20 *** Osai has left #openttdcoop 16:02:29 *** Osai has joined #openttdcoop 16:02:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Osai 16:02:30 <Mark> heh, guess that's enough to make a game a classic 16:02:36 <Osai> ups 16:02:38 <Mark> is there a way to reset in SP? 16:02:47 <Thraxian|Work> was all that tform original, or created during the game? 16:02:53 <planetmaker> Mark, "reset" in console? 16:02:59 <Mark> planetmaker: nope 16:03:02 <planetmaker> or something like that :-) 16:03:05 <Osai> Thraxian|Work: it is not original 16:03:06 <Mark> Thraxian|Work: TF'd 16:03:06 <Osai> :P 16:03:07 <planetmaker> restart maybe 16:03:08 <Thraxian|Work> reset_company 16:03:11 <Osai> its the old style 16:03:30 <planetmaker> I never used it tbh 16:03:45 <Thraxian|Work> http://wiki.openttd.org/Reset_Company 16:03:56 <Thraxian|Work> doesn't reset industry production, tform, etc. 16:03:59 <V453000> why not just get the seed of the map? 16:04:03 <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work, not company. Game. Whole map 16:04:07 <Mark> Thraxian|Work: indeed :P 16:04:09 <Thraxian|Work> ah 16:04:13 <Mark> V453000: that might work 16:04:20 <Mark> restart seems to load current settings 16:04:21 <Thraxian|Work> getseed 16:04:36 <V453000> it wouldnt probably keep the industries at the same place but the map will be the same as in the beginning 16:04:44 <planetmaker> ah... that might work. But probably only with the same version as the original. 16:04:57 <planetmaker> Worth a try at least. 16:04:58 <Mark> i'll see how close it gets 16:05:02 <V453000> thats a question 16:05:05 <V453000> :) 16:05:11 <Mark> with the same settings it will probably at least look like it 16:06:36 <Osai> do we want to use the same plan? 16:07:03 <Mark> heh, the map looks nothing like it 16:07:07 <Thraxian|Work> I got "2293639553", and the new map doesn't seem close at all 16:07:17 <Thraxian|Work> even accounting for lakes being filled in 16:07:22 <Osai> erm 16:07:30 <V453000> I got some else number :D 16:07:31 <Mark> it's a plateau at the highest level with craters in it :D 16:07:31 <Osai> this map is from a time where seeds didn't exist 16:07:47 <Osai> iirc 16:08:23 <V453000> anyways ... guys if you look at the save most of the land has beed terraformed to death :D how could we say it looks the same or not? 16:08:46 <Thraxian|Work> water placement, mostly 16:08:56 <Thraxian|Work> if lakes are still there, or look like they may have been 16:09:41 <Mark> now it actually looks like the original generator is bugged 16:10:11 <Thraxian|Work> makes me wonder: should we include the original .sav file on the wiki for our current games? 16:10:17 <Thraxian|Work> that way, years from now, we have it :) 16:10:33 <Thraxian|Work> store both initial and final states in the archive 16:10:52 <V453000> not a bad idea 16:12:07 *** Phazorx has joined #openttdcoop 16:12:08 <Thraxian|Work> so, by "copying" this plan, we're talking about using the same trains, same primary placement, and roughly the same ML layout? 16:12:26 <Mark> yes 16:12:27 <Thraxian|Work> er...same main station placement, not primary :) 16:12:34 <Mark> uh yes, that's what i read :P 16:12:55 <Phazorx> mark btw, you mentioned that "we at least learned something from this map" for these who havent had a chance to look at at would you care to explain? 16:13:10 <Mark> though it seems creating a proper map with the original terra generator is bugged now 16:13:35 <Mark> Phazorx: well, some more experience in creating large SRNW stations 16:13:45 <Mark> with both feeder loops and dummies 16:14:04 <Phazorx> did that work our as planned? 16:14:09 <Phazorx> *out 16:14:36 <Mark> kind of, the map came out a bit unbalanced though 16:14:53 <Mark> and there were not as many primary pickups as i would have liked 16:15:35 <Phazorx> err... financing disabled? 16:15:37 <V453000> I agree :o 16:15:47 <Phazorx> or notenough rom? 16:16:04 <Mark> i assume you mean prospecting 16:16:13 <Phazorx> yeah 16:16:15 <Mark> guess people just didn't feel like making more stations :) 16:16:24 <Mark> instead focused on a few massive ones 16:16:48 <Thraxian|Work> personally, I'm not (yet) a big fan of large-scale SRNW 16:16:51 <Mark> could anyone try to create a map with the original generator and see if it looks anything like it used to? 16:17:07 <Osai> I tried it 16:17:10 <Osai> with the same seed 16:17:14 <Thraxian|Work> OpenTTD 0.4.5? 16:17:19 <Mark> yeah, it's nasty with any seed :P 16:17:58 <Mark> guess we could create the map with an old version and just load it 16:18:05 <Osai> its something below r3400 16:18:26 <Phazorx> i ony get "massive stations" design as an idea of building in explandable way 16:18:29 <Thraxian|Work> 0.4.5 was r2361 through r3487 16:18:42 <Phazorx> so you add more platforms/hookups as it grows 16:18:57 <Phazorx> rather than design ahuge ass station from start and look at it emptiness for most of game 16:19:03 <Osai> yea 16:19:07 <Thraxian|Work> I don't think revisions were numbered prior to that - or at least they're not documented on the wiki 16:19:16 <Osai> Phazorx: I always loved the patching of networks 16:19:28 <Osai> building bypasses and so on 16:19:30 <Mark> anyone got a very old version hanging around? 16:19:35 <Mark> or the source 16:19:35 <Osai> bottlenecks, jams and what not 16:19:42 <Osai> thats the joy :D 16:19:43 <Phazorx> Osai: i was leaning more towards planing 16:19:59 <Osai> well, starting on a lower scale helps 16:20:00 <Phazorx> and expanding acrodingly rather than dealing with gridlocks and shortsights 16:20:24 <KenjiE20> Osai: same as me and Sawyer then :) 16:21:04 <Osai> I am really looking forward how the factory will work this time 16:21:11 <Osai> there were four entrances 16:21:18 <Osai> N,S,E,W 16:21:48 <Phazorx> i was playing with grass-on-unsed patch btw, looking o expand it to a point when unused tracks for some time start to decay 16:22:27 <Mark> that's nice, automatic network cleaning :P 16:22:27 <Phazorx> which would add a nice touch to a point of expandability vs megamainlines from start 16:22:32 <Phazorx> Mark: sort of 16:23:07 <Thraxian|Work> I downloaded 0.4.5, and theres no place to specify a seed. Command line option? 16:23:19 <Osai> nope 16:23:21 <Osai> config :D 16:23:26 <Osai> openttd.cfg 16:26:01 <Thraxian|Work> tried that too. but even creating two maps back to back came up with different landscapes 16:26:34 <Osai> mist :/ 16:26:55 <Osai> that was german... I meant crap 16:28:40 <Mark> Thraxian|Work: i just generated a map using the same settings, guess it's close enough 16:28:55 <Mark> industry placement changes throughout the game anyway 16:29:24 <Thraxian|Work> as long as the hills and lakes are close :) 16:29:38 <Thraxian|Work> and I'm not referring to the manmade ones.... 16:29:41 <Mark> not at all, they're completely different 16:29:51 <Mark> but it looks the same 16:30:26 <Mark> everyone should play 0.4.5 sometimes to appreciate the huge progress :) 16:31:07 *** Dred_furst has quit IRC 16:32:32 *** bartaway is now known as bartavelle 16:35:36 *** Polygon has joined #openttdcoop 16:38:15 *** Fuco has joined #openttdcoop 16:38:48 <V453000> haha :) 16:39:02 <V453000> there were not even PBS in it if I remember well 16:39:52 <planetmaker> path signals are now a year old or so 16:40:03 <V453000> really? 16:40:08 <planetmaker> they were last winter's commit spree. As was bananas and NoAI ;-) 16:40:15 <Thraxian|Work> PBS was r13926 16:40:16 <V453000> O_o 16:40:29 <planetmaker> or do I err... ? 16:40:52 <Thraxian|Work> which is around 0.6.3 16:41:35 <Thraxian|Work> correction... 0.7.0 16:41:42 <planetmaker> ^ 16:41:46 <planetmaker> which is April 1st last year 16:41:49 <Thraxian|Work> 2009-02-16 was the release, actually 16:41:56 <Thraxian|Work> made it into beta1 16:42:00 <Thraxian|Work> http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_0.7.0 16:42:00 <planetmaker> yeah 16:42:18 <planetmaker> changeset | files 16:42:19 <planetmaker> 17 months ago rubidium (svn r13932) -Add [YAPP]: PBS signals added to the map array. The signals are drawn using the old Patch-like PBS sprites. (michi_cc) 16:43:08 <V453000> in 0.6.3 PBS was not I think, I started playing with 0.6.3. 16:43:15 <V453000> and I had PBSs only in nightly 16:43:39 <V453000> y 16:43:46 <planetmaker> It's a 0.7 feature, definitely 16:43:48 <V453000> me must learn to read I see :D 16:44:36 <Thraxian|Work> question: you know how trains that are too long for the station take a longer time to load/unload? 16:45:18 <Thraxian|Work> what do you think about a code change that would only apply the load/unload penalty if the cars that can't reach the platform contain cargo? 16:45:31 <V453000> oh 16:45:35 <V453000> interesting idea 16:45:36 <Thraxian|Work> ie. if an engine or "caboose" style car (with no cargo in it) is hanging off, then no penalty 16:45:37 <V453000> but why :D 16:45:45 <Thraxian|Work> quicker throughput in the station 16:45:57 <Thraxian|Work> currently, the signal before the platform doesn't clear until the train completely leaves the platform 16:46:01 <V453000> yeah but mostly people build as long stations as needed 16:46:25 <Thraxian|Work> with a "placeholder" car (like a caboose), as soon as that train starts moving, the signal clears, and a train can approach the soon-to-be-empty platform 16:46:38 <Thraxian|Work> especially useful for longer approaches 16:46:47 <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work, while it certainly is more realistic, I guess the pain to get there is not worth the work 16:46:51 <Thraxian|Work> because the platform is empty while the next train navigates through the approach 16:47:04 <planetmaker> what would be the gain anyway? 16:47:14 <Thraxian|Work> Thraxian|Work: quicker throughput in the station 16:47:34 <V453000> why increasing throughput via coding changes? 16:47:34 <planetmaker> you either wait till full load or you wait a certain time. The result would be the same anyway 16:47:48 <Thraxian|Work> you've missed the point 16:48:19 <planetmaker> obviously. Where is it? 16:48:27 <Thraxian|Work> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/a/a5/Roro_dedicated_plats.PNG 16:48:35 *** heffer has quit IRC 16:48:44 <Thraxian|Work> bad image, but assume it's properly pre-exit signalled (or PBS'd) 16:48:45 <planetmaker> uhm, yes? 16:48:57 <Thraxian|Work> a train can't even approach the platform until the previous train completely clears it 16:49:05 <planetmaker> yes? 16:49:34 <Thraxian|Work> now assume the train "hangs over" a bit, and a signal is placed on the tile before the station and an exit signal immediately before that 16:49:48 <Thraxian|Work> as soon as the "hangover" car moves, the exit signal turns green, and a train approaches the station platform 16:49:56 <Thraxian|Work> without waiting for the previous train to completely get off the platform 16:50:20 <Thraxian|Work> the problem now is that the hangover car causes a significant penalty when loading/unloading the entire train 16:50:30 <Thraxian|Work> even though that car isn't even involved in that process 16:50:56 <planetmaker> what's the gain, if then a train waits at the exit signal due to the fact that the station still isn't cleared? 16:51:07 <planetmaker> might be very probable in the scenario you describe 16:51:22 <Thraxian|Work> by the time the new train gets to the exit signal, the previous train has already cleared the platform 16:51:30 <planetmaker> that's a bold assumption 16:52:01 <Thraxian|Work> not really - assuming adequate exit space is present, and the approach is longer than the station 16:52:07 <Thraxian|Work> (which is true in most cases) 16:52:30 <planetmaker> and the trains are not too long 16:52:37 <Thraxian|Work> in the image I linked to earlier, only the first (southern) platform has a shorter approach than the platform 16:52:41 <planetmaker> e.g. it will fail much more likely for longer trains 16:52:58 <Thraxian|Work> platforms are TL5, while the approaches are TL5-TL11 16:53:06 <planetmaker> in any case: V453000 has a very valid point 16:53:30 <Thraxian|Work> the coding change is required to remove the penalty - otherwise there really is no point in doing something like that 16:53:48 <Thraxian|Work> that, or we could modify the penalty setting to apply 0 penalty to longer trains 16:53:59 <Thraxian|Work> then we could dock a TL50 in a TL1 station, and it would still work 16:54:00 <planetmaker> well. you'll need to take care to load slower / not at all wagons off the station 16:54:05 <planetmaker> which needs separate checks. 16:54:14 <planetmaker> which makes the whole thing slower. 16:54:39 <planetmaker> Train length is cached. The cargo carried by a wagon at position not and needs separate access. For each 16:54:48 <planetmaker> Checking for each wagon whether it influences loading speed 16:55:20 <Thraxian|Work> I don't see it as being a slower check, to be honest 16:55:30 <Thraxian|Work> the code knows how long the platform is, and how long the train is 16:55:35 <planetmaker> of course: you need to check _each_ wagon which is longer 16:55:45 <Thraxian|Work> I assume it knows which way the train entered (where the head of the train is) 16:55:46 <planetmaker> Now you just check: longer ? slow loading : fast loading 16:55:55 <Thraxian|Work> then, it can check the last N cars of the train to see their capactiy 16:55:57 <Chris_Booth> !archive 16:55:57 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/ProZone:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/MemberZone:Archive 16:56:01 <Thraxian|Work> if zero, no penalty. if not, penalty 16:56:15 <planetmaker> and no, it doesn't need to know a direction for those checks. Just the length is checked 16:56:37 <Thraxian|Work> actually - direction wouldn't matter 16:56:53 <planetmaker> So you need N+1 checks. 16:57:00 <Thraxian|Work> it knows the difference in length between the platform and the train. it knows how the train is put together. 16:57:02 <planetmaker> while you now need 1 16:57:11 <Thraxian|Work> so if there's a difference of 2, check the last 2 cars. they're the ones not on the platform 16:57:26 <planetmaker> cars are attached via wagon->next 16:57:38 <Thraxian|Work> it's only single-linked? 16:57:44 <planetmaker> not sure 16:59:15 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (connection lost) 17:00:05 <Thraxian|Work> doubly linked. GetNextVehicle and GetPrevVehicle are both supported 17:00:30 <planetmaker> question is: GetLastVehicle present? 17:00:34 <planetmaker> If not: it's mute ;-) 17:01:01 <Thraxian|Work> no, but then neither is GetTrainLength 17:01:13 <Thraxian|Work> so to compute train length, it has to iterate through all vehicles 17:01:19 <planetmaker> it's a newgrf var afaik 17:03:38 <Thraxian|Work> train inherits from vehicle_base, and there is a cached_total_length there 17:03:48 <planetmaker> yes, trainlength is cached. 17:04:10 <Chris_Booth> so what was the verdict on replaying pile? 17:04:11 <planetmaker> in struct TrainCache 17:04:24 <planetmaker> defined in src/train.h 17:04:43 <Thraxian|Work> http://svn.openttd.org/branches/0.7/src/train.h 17:04:45 <Thraxian|Work> it's not in there 17:04:53 <planetmaker> I use trunk 17:05:09 <planetmaker> 0.7 branch is about a year old 17:05:21 <Thraxian|Work> ah 17:05:31 <Thraxian|Work> My google search for openttd svn put me in a branch 17:05:39 <planetmaker> src/train.h:70 17:05:46 <Thraxian|Work> that's almost a direct copy from the train part of vehicle_base 17:05:48 <planetmaker> in r18866 17:05:51 <Thraxian|Work> so, yeah 17:06:39 <planetmaker> and: it only caches the front vehicle ID 17:07:40 <planetmaker> thus you can go back and forth through a train, but you always start at the first engine. 17:07:52 <Thraxian|Work> true 17:08:48 <Thraxian|Work> if you're concerned about CPU usage, it wouldn't be hard to cache the position of the last car that can hold cargo 17:08:53 <Thraxian|Work> then it's an O(1) lookup 17:09:09 <planetmaker> that doesn't invalidate any of my arguments 17:09:09 *** Thraxian|Work has left #openttdcoop 17:09:15 *** Thraxian|Work has joined #openttdcoop 17:09:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Thraxian|Work 17:09:21 <Thraxian|Work> I hate it when IRC takes focus like that :( 17:09:51 <planetmaker> you must consider the general case. Not your desired case of a void wagon longer than the station 17:10:26 <Thraxian|Work> there's always a check to see if the train is longer the platform. This would be one additional IF check if the train is longer. 17:11:35 <planetmaker> still A LOT for virtually no gain. 17:12:02 <Thraxian|Work> actually, just replace the train's length with the position of the last cargo car. no additional processing required 17:12:22 <Thraxian|Work> and "virtually no gain" is your opinion. I see some decent potential here. 17:12:26 <planetmaker> the train length is not subject to being replaced. It's a needed var. 17:12:42 <Thraxian|Work> it's not replaced. only a different variable is used in the calculation 17:12:48 <Thraxian|Work> er...comparison 17:13:19 <Thraxian|Work> instead of "if train.length > platform.length", use "if train.lastcargocarposition > platform.length" 17:13:32 <Thraxian|Work> or whatever the syntax would be 17:13:37 *** V453000 has quit IRC 17:13:46 <planetmaker> Then do it properly and make it such that the engine is also off limits of the station. No reason not to. 17:13:54 <planetmaker> And then you opened the pandora's box 17:13:59 <Thraxian|Work> what? 17:14:23 <planetmaker> why should the engine occupy platform space (if it has no cargo capacity)? 17:14:36 *** pugi has joined #openttdcoop 17:14:38 <Thraxian|Work> because trains stop at the platform, not past it. 17:14:39 <Chris_Booth> so driver can get in / out of the engine 17:14:53 <planetmaker> do they? They don't here. 17:15:04 *** Bluelight has joined #openttdcoop 17:15:08 <planetmaker> and drivers don't need a platform for engine access. 17:15:31 <planetmaker> the red signal usually is a bit past the platform. 17:15:35 <Thraxian|Work> planetmaker: And then you opened the pandora's box <- wasn't me that did it :0 17:16:02 <planetmaker> well. I don't need any change there :-) 17:16:13 <planetmaker> As I really don't see any gain :-) 17:16:51 <planetmaker> this small speed gain one might get with a special track construction no one except a cooper would use... nah. 17:18:31 <Thraxian|Work> personally, if I'm sitting at a stop sign behind someone, and they go, I don't wait for them to clear the intersection before I move up to the stop sign. I move when they do. 17:18:52 <Thraxian|Work> I'm simply using the same logic for trains on a platform. 17:20:19 <Chris_Booth> Thraxian|Work: what to say that train doesnt stop befor it clears the next signal? 17:20:33 <Chris_Booth> trains dont have stop lights 17:20:39 <Chris_Booth> so the train will just crash 17:20:42 <Chris_Booth> not like in cars 17:21:22 <Thraxian|Work> CB: huh? 17:21:56 *** jondisti has joined #openttdcoop 17:22:10 <Thraxian|Work> worst case, the train leaving the platform is slower. so the next train is temporarily stopped or slowed just before the platform. but at least it's already there. If it can't go immediately to the platform, then there's not enough exit space from the station 17:23:14 <Chris_Booth> or a train is blocking the exit 17:23:41 <Thraxian|Work> then that's poor station exit design 17:24:02 <Chris_Booth> no it isnt quite often on SL stations train will block exits 17:24:42 <Thraxian|Work> yes it is. it's called "not enough exit space from the station" 17:25:37 <Chris_Booth> no if you have a busy station and you merge lines after 1 TL but there is still a red upahead which is blocking the track 17:26:00 <Thraxian|Work> either a train is on the platform, or it is completely off the platform waiting to merge to the sideline. 17:26:14 <Chris_Booth> its still on the platform 17:26:18 <Thraxian|Work> if you have a train that is halfway on the platform, then there is not enough exit space 17:26:25 <Thraxian|Work> if it's still on the platform, then the next train isn't approaching yet. 17:26:36 <Thraxian|Work> because as soon as that train starts to move, the next train starts to approach 17:26:51 <Thraxian|Work> and if the train on the platform starts to move, there had better be enough exit space for it to clear the platform 17:26:52 <Chris_Booth> i dissagree with that 17:27:01 <Thraxian|Work> fine, we can agree to disagree. 17:27:13 <Chris_Booth> unless you implement a comletely signal less system 17:27:27 <Chris_Booth> like with real highspeed lines 17:27:37 <Chris_Booth> which still have real signals at stations 17:27:58 <Thraxian|Work> and they also have inter-train communication, which openttd doesn't 17:28:03 <Chris_Booth> you would gain anything from having a train wait 2 or 3 seconds for a clear platform 17:28:39 <Chris_Booth> and speed limits on the line 17:30:07 <jondisti> !password 17:30:07 <PublicServer> jondisti: harped 17:30:22 <PublicServer> *** jondisti joined the game 17:34:16 *** Intexon has joined #openttdcoop 17:38:28 *** De_Ghosty has quit IRC 17:39:55 *** heffer has joined #openttdcoop 17:47:57 *** dr_gonzo has joined #openttdcoop 17:48:01 *** V453000 has joined #openttdcoop 17:53:13 *** pugi has quit IRC 17:59:03 *** bartavelle is now known as bartaway 18:06:18 <PublicServer> *** jondisti has left the game (leaving) 18:14:49 *** heffer has quit IRC 18:19:52 *** heffer has joined #openttdcoop 18:25:42 <Intexon> !password 18:25:42 <PublicServer> Intexon: moping 18:26:04 <PublicServer> *** Intexon joined the game 18:28:08 *** StarLite` has quit IRC 18:28:57 *** puny has joined #openttdcoop 18:29:41 *** Hyppy has quit IRC 18:32:51 *** StarLite has joined #openttdcoop 18:32:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o StarLite 18:35:43 *** puny_ has joined #openttdcoop 18:35:49 *** puny has quit IRC 18:35:53 *** puny_ is now known as puny 18:36:14 *** MDGrein has quit IRC 18:37:08 *** MDGrein has joined #openttdcoop 18:48:31 *** MDGrein has quit IRC 18:55:46 <Bluelight> How do leave a game without breaking connection.. I mean the server say leave sometimes when other leaves, but when I leave it say connection lost.. 18:58:22 <^Spike^> does it matter? :) 18:59:41 <puny> hi everyone - what is the approx bandwidth usage in MB per hour for playing openttd on the servers? 19:00:02 <planetmaker> 2kbit. 19:00:12 <Bluelight> lol 19:00:16 <planetmaker> @calc 2*60 / 8 19:00:16 <Webster> planetmaker: 15 19:00:39 <planetmaker> 15 kilobyte per hour. Plus the map download(s). 19:00:45 <planetmaker> That's more of an issue then ;-) 19:01:13 <puny> thanks - thats good news 19:01:26 <^Spike^> hmm.. i don't know if i can stay under my download limit with that pm.. 19:01:32 <^Spike^> i guess barely... 19:01:44 * ^Spike^ checks.. seeing already over 100gb this month... 19:01:46 <Bluelight> Hmm.. I don't have a limit.. 19:01:50 <^Spike^> oh wait... FUP :) 19:02:55 <Bluelight> I used to have 20Mbit/s down.. But I wanted to save money.. But it's not so slow.. 19:03:30 <Thraxian|Work> are you concerned about exceeding your download QUOTA or your download SPEED? 19:04:06 <puny> QUOTA - only have 500MB per month 19:04:13 <Thraxian|Work> ooh...ouch 19:04:28 <puny> i know 19:04:58 <Bluelight> That wasnt much.. :( 19:05:19 <puny> I guess lag isnt an issue - its a 3g connection - but its not like ttd is a fps? 19:05:37 <Bluelight> I download more then that every day I think.. :p 19:06:08 <Thraxian|Work> if you count all the youtube videos and music I stream each day, me too. 19:06:09 <Bluelight> I have 3G to.. But I use it rarely.. No limit.. 19:06:27 <planetmaker> 500MB is... not much indeed. Though I do well with about 5GB a month 19:06:30 <puny> lol - Im part of a WUG which I use for downloads, so I only use 3G for emails, slashdot and wikipedia 19:06:48 <^Spike^> hmm.. 19:07:06 <^Spike^> 5gb a month? :) 19:07:14 <planetmaker> anyway, OpenTTD should not break the limit of 500MB a month either 19:07:15 * ^Spike^ guess tv shows don't work nicely for monthly usage.. 19:07:15 <puny> nope 500MB per month 19:07:20 <planetmaker> yes, spike :-) 19:07:24 <^Spike^> i was talking about pm :) 19:07:32 <^Spike^> i guess i end up with 150 maybe 175gb this month.. 19:07:35 <puny> o 19:07:35 <^Spike^> just from downloads.. 19:07:38 <puny> my basd 19:07:40 <^Spike^> not including what i do else.. :) 19:07:40 <puny> bad* 19:09:31 <^Spike^> it's just that my current router doesn't track my usage anymore.. :) 19:09:47 <^Spike^> weeks of 50-100gbw as nothing.. :) 19:09:51 <^Spike^> gb was* 19:10:02 <Bluelight> I still wonder how I can leave the OpenTTD servers without getting the connection lost line.. 19:10:17 <puny> ur making me jealous - what country are u from? 19:10:58 <^Spike^> the netherlands? 19:11:04 <planetmaker> spike: I don't download warez ;-) 19:11:13 <^Spike^> me neither.. :) 19:11:16 <^Spike^> just alot of tv shows.. :) 19:11:19 <planetmaker> nor do I extensively use video services. Nor use torrents 19:11:21 <^Spike^> and those are legal to download here.. ;) 19:11:30 <^Spike^> i'm not allowed to upload.. 19:11:38 <puny> Im from south africa - you can probably understand afrikaans? 19:11:42 <^Spike^> but i may download films/music.. :) 19:11:45 <planetmaker> pro'ly all about smoking weed and making the best of it :-P 19:11:50 <^Spike^> puny yes i do roughly.. :) 19:12:01 <^Spike^> nah.. :) 19:12:04 <^Spike^> pm i'm clean.. :) 19:12:07 <Bluelight> Norway here.. 19:12:10 <^Spike^> can't say that of most.. :) 19:12:18 <planetmaker> :-) 19:16:02 *** Levi has joined #openttdcoop 19:16:22 <Levi> !players 19:16:23 <PublicServer> Levi: Client 487 is Chris Booth Spec, a spectator 19:16:23 <PublicServer> Levi: Client 496 is Intexon, a spectator 19:16:44 <Levi> !revision 19:16:44 <PublicServer> Levi: Game version is r18758 19:17:08 <PublicServer> *** Levi has left the game (connection lost) 19:17:14 <Levi> !password 19:17:14 <PublicServer> Levi: lusher 19:17:25 <PublicServer> *** Levi joined the game 19:20:47 <PublicServer> *** Levi has left the game (leaving) 19:20:49 *** Levi has left #openttdcoop 19:24:42 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttdcoop 19:24:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Phoenix_the_II 19:27:35 *** Seppel has quit IRC 19:35:58 *** Bluelight has quit IRC 19:36:43 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC 19:41:45 *** roysvork has joined #openttdcoop 19:41:59 <roysvork> evenin 19:48:03 <Chris_Booth> evening all 19:51:32 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttdcoop 19:51:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Phoenix_the_II 20:03:51 *** pugi has joined #openttdcoop 20:04:58 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth Spec has left the game (connection lost) 20:06:49 <PublicServer> *** lomba joined the game 20:15:18 *** mixrin has joined #openttdcoop 20:17:01 *** Kolo has joined #openttdcoop 20:18:30 *** sietse has joined #openttdcoop 20:18:37 <PublicServer> *** Kolo joined the game 20:18:37 <sietse> !players 20:18:39 <PublicServer> sietse: Client 501 (Orange) is lomba, in company 1 (New Safingley Transport) 20:18:39 <PublicServer> sietse: Client 496 is Intexon, a spectator 20:18:39 <PublicServer> sietse: Client 503 (Orange) is Kolo, in company 1 (New Safingley Transport) 20:18:54 *** Yexo has joined #openttdcoop 20:19:09 <PublicServer> *** Kolo has left the game (connection lost) 20:19:09 <sietse> !password 20:19:09 <PublicServer> sietse: tamely 20:19:10 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 20:19:19 <PublicServer> *** Sietse joined the game 20:19:40 <PublicServer> *** Kolo joined the game 20:19:56 <PublicServer> *** Sietse has left the game (connection lost) 20:20:02 <PublicServer> *** Kolo has left the game (connection lost) 20:20:02 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 20:20:16 <PublicServer> *** Sietse joined the game 20:30:43 <PublicServer> *** lomba has left the game (leaving) 20:35:13 <Ammler> KenjiE20: stage finalizing? 20:35:35 <KenjiE20> yes finalising 20:36:11 <Mark> lol 20:37:07 <Thraxian|Work> for the past 24 hours :) 20:37:08 *** jondisti has quit IRC 20:37:53 <Thraxian|Work> only because we couldn't get the latest nightly to build. but that's changed....woohoo! 20:38:35 <Ammler> !archive 20:38:35 <PublicServer> Ammler: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/ProZone:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/MemberZone:Archive 20:38:37 <KenjiE20> !save 20:38:37 <PublicServer> Saving game... 20:38:38 <PublicServer> Game saved 20:38:47 <KenjiE20> !transfer 172 game.sav 20:38:49 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: PublicServerGame_172_Final.sav 20:38:49 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: Transfer done. (/home/openttd/website/public/save/game.sav->http://www.openttdcoop.org//files/PublicServer_archive/PublicServerGame_172_Final.sav) 20:38:54 <KenjiE20> Mark 20:39:01 <KenjiE20> ping-ness 20:39:15 <Mark> yes? 20:39:23 <KenjiE20> got your map? 20:39:33 <Mark> yeah, let me upload 20:41:07 <Mark> there you go, pile_replay.sav 20:43:00 <PublicServer> Server closed down by admin 20:43:00 <PublicServer> Saving game... 20:43:01 <PublicServer> Game saved 20:43:03 <PublicServer> Server has exited 20:43:04 *** PublicServer has quit IRC 20:43:45 *** PublicServer has joined #openttdcoop 20:43:45 <PublicServer> Autopilot engaged 20:43:45 <PublicServer> Loading savegame: '#openttdcoop - The Public Server (www.openttdcoop.org)' 20:43:45 *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #172 (r18867) | STAGE: Finalising | www.openttdcoop.org | New players, use @quickstart & !help | Screenshots: http://img.openttdcoop.org | Coopetition ladder: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/ladder" 20:43:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v PublicServer 20:43:54 <KenjiE20> !info 20:44:03 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: server_pw truest 20:44:03 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: alias ap_cmd "%+ ; echo donecapture" 20:44:03 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: debug_level "0" 20:44:03 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: server_info 20:44:03 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [core] starting network... 20:44:05 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] initializing listeners 20:44:05 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [core] network online, multiplayer available 20:44:07 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] Detected broadcast addresses: 20:44:07 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] 0) 91.198.87.255 20:44:07 <KenjiE20> grr 20:44:09 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] 1) 10.0.0.255 20:44:09 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] closed listeners 20:44:11 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] initializing listeners 20:44:11 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [tcp] listening on IPv4 port 91.198.87.142:3979 (IPv4) 20:44:13 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] listening on IPv4 port 91.198.87.142:3979 (IPv4) 20:44:13 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] advertising to master server 20:44:15 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] listening on IPv4 port 91.198.87.142:0 (IPv4) 20:44:15 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: dbg: [net] [udp] received new session key from master server (IPv4) 20:44:17 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: *** Game paused (not enough players) 20:44:17 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: Current/maximum clients: 0/255 20:44:18 <KenjiE20> slow boot up is slow 20:44:19 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: Current/maximum companies: 1/ 1 20:44:19 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: Current/maximum spectators: 0/10 20:44:21 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Rinnford Transport' Year Founded: 1950 Money: 2009576518 Loan: 100000 Value: 2009500818 (T:0, R:0, P:0, S:0) unprotected 20:45:20 <roysvork> do we have to be orange again? : ) 20:45:30 <KenjiE20> yes 20:45:42 <KenjiE20> don't question the orange 20:45:48 <roysvork> lol 20:45:51 <puny> !download linux 20:45:51 <PublicServer> puny: unknown option "linux" 20:46:01 <roysvork> almighty orange 20:46:28 <roysvork> !download win32 20:46:28 <PublicServer> roysvork: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r18867/openttd-trunk-r18867-windows-win32.zip 20:47:05 <puny> !download generic 20:47:05 <PublicServer> puny: unknown option "generic" 20:47:18 <puny> !download debian 20:47:18 <PublicServer> puny: unknown option "debian" 20:47:36 <roysvork> !download AmigaOS 20:47:36 <PublicServer> roysvork: unknown option "AmigaOS" 20:47:54 <roysvork> !download OS2/Warp 20:47:54 <PublicServer> roysvork: unknown option "OS2/Warp" 20:48:02 <KenjiE20> good, s'all works 20:48:10 <puny> where can one get a list of valid OS's? 20:48:14 <KenjiE20> !dl 20:48:14 <PublicServer> KenjiE20: !dl autostart|autottd|autoupdate|lin|lin64|osx|win32|win64|win9x 20:48:17 <KenjiE20> @quickstart 20:48:19 <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart 20:48:22 <puny> ty 20:49:09 <puny> !download lin64 20:49:09 <PublicServer> puny: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r18867/openttd-trunk-r18867-linux-generic-amd64.tar.bz2 20:49:26 <Phoenix_the_II> hmm 20:49:51 <roysvork> I still have a lot of respect for the whole server setup with IRC 20:49:56 <Thraxian|Work> wow...1.38MB already 20:50:00 <roysvork> it's very neat stuff 20:50:03 <KenjiE20> 1024^2 map 20:50:04 <Phoenix_the_II> compiling... 20:50:31 <KenjiE20> roy; it'll get even better soon 20:50:37 *** VictorOfSweden has joined #openttdcoop 20:50:46 <KenjiE20> rewrite of AP 20:51:48 *** heffer has quit IRC 20:53:22 *** Progman has quit IRC 20:54:00 <PublicServer> *** VictorOfSweden joined the game 20:54:12 <Phoenix_the_II> !assword 20:54:16 <Phoenix_the_II> right... 20:54:19 <Phoenix_the_II> !password 20:54:19 <PublicServer> Phoenix_the_II: truest 20:54:35 <PublicServer> *** Phoenix_the_II joined the game 20:54:35 <roysvork> assword eh? 20:54:58 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> holy crap someone already made a plan? :o 20:55:10 <Thraxian|Work> nope - it's a remake of Pile Transport 20:55:12 <PublicServer> *** Roysvork joined the game 20:55:20 <Thraxian|Work> same plan, same(-ish) map, same trains 20:55:33 <Thraxian|Work> but with new building style, and (hopefully) significantly less tform 20:55:34 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> oh so this map has been played before? :o 20:55:46 <KenjiE20> only with new techniques 20:55:51 <KenjiE20> and features :) 20:55:58 <Thraxian|Work> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/MemberZone:Archive#gameid_04 20:56:26 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> what does tl2lev4 mean? Is that 4 cars plus the two maglev units? 20:56:52 <KenjiE20> lev4 is 4th Maglev train 20:57:07 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> ahhhh ok 20:57:23 <Thraxian|Work> TL2 means 4 cars. lev4 is a dual-engine, so that leaves room for 2 cargo cars 20:57:47 <Mark> which means very low effeciency but lots of fun 20:57:47 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> ahhh yes of course 20:57:59 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> nice sharp corners 20:58:12 <Thraxian|Work> think: anthill 20:58:16 <Mark> :D 20:58:38 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> will have to check out the archive for the previous game 20:58:40 <puny> ?password 20:58:40 <Mark> !password 20:58:40 <PublicServer> Mark: truest 20:58:43 <puny> !password 20:58:44 <PublicServer> puny: truest 20:58:52 <Mark> !dl win32 20:58:52 <PublicServer> Mark: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r18867/openttd-trunk-r18867-windows-win32.zip 20:58:53 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> I've heard of it though, pretty famous to us outsiders :) 20:59:15 *** tkjacobsen has joined #openttdcoop 20:59:18 <PublicServer> *** VictorOfSweden has left the game (leaving) 20:59:25 <V453000> previous game? 20:59:28 <V453000> it was just RV 21:00:16 <tkjacobsen> !dl lin 21:00:16 <PublicServer> tkjacobsen: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r18867/openttd-trunk-r18867-linux-generic-i686.tar.bz2 21:00:47 <KenjiE20> V453000: as in Member Zone game, this one is based from 21:00:57 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> Not sure what game you're thinking of but I'm referring to the previous pile transport game, member zone 04 21:01:05 *** PeterT has joined #openttdcoop 21:01:13 <PublicServer> *** puny has left the game (connection lost) 21:01:42 <Thraxian|Work> the one I linked to 5 minutes ago 21:02:31 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> so, with all these mountains, are we looking to have some creative MLs with tunneling, etc, or are we going to be lazy and tform everything again? 21:03:26 <Ammler> @stage PileTransport 2 21:03:26 *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #172 (r18867) | STAGE: PileTransport 2 | www.openttdcoop.org | New players, use @quickstart & !help | Screenshots: http://img.openttdcoop.org | Coopetition ladder: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/ladder" 21:03:47 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> and why is the plan train TL3? 21:04:07 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> dunno 21:04:10 <Chris_Booth> Thraxian|Work: as that is what pile transport 1 was 21:04:11 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> might up it to 5? 21:04:15 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> hehe - and town SW is not reachable 21:04:26 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> (on the plan) - so the train is currently looping 21:04:29 <Chris_Booth> its a replay of pile transport 1 21:04:46 <V453000> #172 ? 21:04:59 <Chris_Booth> maybe people should check pile transport in MZ games 21:05:13 <Mark> is pile transport TL3? 21:05:13 <V453000> I cant say I like that game 21:05:13 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> woah - now the plan is changing.... 21:05:19 <Mark> then this should also be 21:05:34 <Mark> !password 21:05:35 <PublicServer> Mark: titted 21:05:48 <puny> !password 21:05:48 <PublicServer> puny: titted 21:05:50 <Ammler> PileTransport save was for long time the most busiest non newgrf game 21:05:56 <Mark> what kind of pass is that? 21:06:04 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> who changed plan? Phoenix or Roy? 21:06:14 <Phoenix_the_II> blame me 21:06:15 <Phoenix_the_II> =P 21:06:18 <PublicServer> *** puny joined the game 21:06:30 <Mark> !password 21:06:30 <PublicServer> Mark: titted 21:06:39 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> only made a stations entrance+exit wise 21:06:47 <Ammler> :-D Mark you wait for another pw? 21:06:51 <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game 21:06:59 <KenjiE20> lol 21:07:12 <PublicServer> <Mark> uh, what happened to the plan? 21:07:21 <PublicServer> <Mark> i tried to copy it 21:07:24 <PublicServer> <Mark> who changed it? 21:07:29 <Phoenix_the_II> <- only made a stations entrance+exit wise 21:07:35 <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah, dont 21:07:38 <tkjacobsen> !password 21:07:38 <PublicServer> tkjacobsen: titted 21:07:41 <Chris_Booth> why isnt my auto update, updateing to r18867? 21:07:41 <Phoenix_the_II> ;O 21:07:44 <Phoenix_the_II> mew :S 21:07:50 <PublicServer> *** tkjacobsen joined the game 21:08:04 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has joined company #1 21:08:07 <Chris_Booth> !revision 21:08:07 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: Game version is r18867 21:08:10 <roysvork> I did not change plan 21:08:26 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> reverted it now :P 21:08:51 <PublicServer> <Mark> thanks 21:08:53 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> shame, the archive game save didn't work properly on my current setup 21:09:22 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> I could see the layout though 21:10:17 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> and Pile was TL3, not TL2 21:10:17 *** Fuco has quit IRC 21:10:20 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> should that be changed? 21:10:31 <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah it should, my bad 21:10:34 *** Fuco has joined #openttdcoop 21:10:36 <PublicServer> <Mark> there 21:10:53 <Chris_Booth> !password 21:10:53 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: titted 21:11:04 <Phoenix_the_II> tits! 21:11:09 <PublicServer> <Mark> so what are we waiting for? :) 21:11:13 <PublicServer> *** Kolo joined the game 21:11:17 <KenjiE20> Phoenix_the_II about 5 mins behind :P 21:11:37 <Phoenix_the_II> huh what? 21:11:39 <Phoenix_the_II> :D 21:11:51 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> 100, 300, 500, 700, 900 coordinates? 21:11:58 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> for the main grid? 21:12:02 <Chris_Booth> !password 21:12:02 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: titted 21:12:03 <KenjiE20> Mark hinted that a while a go 21:12:06 <KenjiE20> ago* 21:12:08 <PublicServer> *** VictorOfSweden joined the game 21:12:22 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth Spec joined the game 21:12:30 <Phoenix_the_II> on work they call when i have that like 21:12:37 <Phoenix_the_II> "Ralph's timezone" 21:12:44 <Phoenix_the_II> aka, my own timezone 21:12:50 <roysvork> : ) 21:12:57 <PublicServer> <Mark> Thraxian: sounds good 21:12:57 <Phoenix_the_II> which is GMT+rand(0,24) 21:13:00 <roysvork> we all have our own zones from time to time 21:14:12 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> this is a big map 21:14:21 <PublicServer> <Mark> that it is 21:14:23 <Phoenix_the_II> cool huh? :D 21:14:49 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> how come the last game ended with just 1000 trains? 21:15:02 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> was it just too much for the cpu to handle? 21:15:22 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> was pretty heavy that last game ye 21:15:32 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> did 100% cpu on max zoom ... 21:15:37 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> on 4ghz... 21:15:46 <KenjiE20> 4? 21:15:54 <PublicServer> <Roysvork> shame, 1000 trains isn't much on a map this size 21:16:02 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> 100x* and *x100 signs posted 21:16:09 <PublicServer> <Mark> with no grfs 2000 should be doable 21:16:17 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> yes, i have a 4ghz quad core kenji : 21:16:20 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> :) 21:16:21 <Mark> !rcon patch town_growth_rate 0 21:16:21 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> these are just guidelines - move the hubs where terrain permits 21:16:34 <KenjiE20> >_> 21:18:04 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> i assume that this is a high TF game 21:18:12 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> since pile was orgianaly high tf 21:18:31 <PublicServer> <Mark> no its not 21:19:02 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> ooh so its coop TF then 21:19:21 <PublicServer> <Mark> times are changing, coop TF was something different back then :P 21:20:25 *** mib_tpm7nk has joined #openttdcoop 21:20:37 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> no i mean is this game TF mark 21:20:40 <PublicServer> *** Kolo has left the game (leaving) 21:20:53 <PublicServer> <Mark> low 21:20:53 <PublicServer> <Mark> i'd say 21:20:59 <PublicServer> <Mark> Thraxian? 21:21:03 <Ammler> Mark, there was like no TF rule back then, those games reminds me of my experimental games 21:21:20 <puny> what does the 100x300 and 500x100 signs mean? 21:21:30 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> the squares on the map 21:21:37 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> 100 x 300 21:21:38 <puny> coords? 21:21:44 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> like on graph paper 21:21:51 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> yeah 21:21:52 <PublicServer> <Phoenix_the_II> junctions will go there prolly 21:21:52 <puny> cool 21:21:53 <PublicServer> *** VictorOfSweden has joined company #1 21:21:58 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth Spec> starting at north 21:22:25 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> all hubs marked 21:22:37 <KenjiE20> Booth, I don't think you're a Spec no more ;) 21:22:39 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> again, relative positions :) 21:24:29 <Chris_Booth> KenjiE20: i am not playing at the moment 21:24:32 <Chris_Booth> just looking 21:24:42 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> I'm just signing, not building 21:24:49 <KenjiE20> ah, sounded like you were in 21:24:58 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth Spec has changed his/her name to I am still a spec KenjiE 21:25:07 <PublicServer> *** I am still a spec KenjiE has joined spectators 21:25:16 <Chris_Booth> :P 21:25:22 *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop 21:25:23 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> hehe -when is a spectator not a spectator? when he's CB! 21:25:51 <Chris_Booth> you never know Thraxian|Work 21:26:01 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> nope, you never know me :) 21:26:01 *** Kolo has quit IRC 21:26:04 <Chris_Booth> it is me afteralll 21:26:19 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> what's CL for a TL3 maglev? 2, or 3? 21:26:35 <Chris_Booth> @cl 21:26:35 <Webster> cl: Curve Length, mostly used to describe how big a curve must be to let pass trains with a certain TL at full speed 21:26:40 <Chris_Booth> !cl 21:26:54 <Thraxian|Work> @clmag 21:26:55 <Chris_Booth> what is the cl formula? 21:26:56 <KenjiE20> CB: It's still KenjiE and not Kenjie for a reason 21:26:58 <Thraxian|Work> !clmag 21:27:01 <KenjiE20> @clcalc 21:27:01 <Webster> KenjiE20: (clcalc <railtype> [<tilt>] <cl|km/h>) -- For a number <30 this calculates the speed for <cl> on <railtype>. For any other numbers, this calculates the CL required for <railtype> travelling at <km/h>, assuming TL is small enough. [<tilt>] will apply tilt bonuses to the calculation. 21:27:04 <Thraxian|Work> hehe 21:27:42 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> what's happening near the plan? 21:27:49 <Chris_Booth> KenjiE20: its openttd i wanted to have it saying your whole nick 21:27:49 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> large area just got flattened 21:28:18 <PublicServer> *** I am still a spec KenjiE has changed his/her name to Chris_Booth 21:28:38 <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> Thraxian: that might have been me 21:28:45 <Thraxian|Work> @clcalc maglev 643 21:28:45 <Webster> Thraxian|Work: Required CL for maglev at 643km/h is 7 (13 half tiles) or TL 21:28:54 <Thraxian|Work> looks like CL3 21:29:04 <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> i'm just trying to level out spikes along the rail 21:29:20 *** starbuck has joined #openttdcoop 21:29:33 <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> making it a bit smoother 21:30:09 <KenjiE20> @alias add pilesave http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/MemberZone:Archive#gameid_04 21:30:09 <Webster> KenjiE20: The operation succeeded. 21:30:24 <KenjiE20> for quick reference during this game 21:31:25 <Mark> !setdef 21:31:26 <PublicServer> *** Mark has disabled wait_for_pbs_path, wait_twoway_signal, wait_oneway_signal, ai_in_multiplayer enabled no_servicing_if_no_breakdowns, extra_dynamite, mod_road_rebuild, forbid_90_deg and set path_backoff_interval to 1, train_acceleration_model to 1 21:31:30 <PublicServer> *** Chris_Booth has changed his/her name to Chris Booth 21:32:05 <Phoenix_the_II> extra dynamite? :o 21:32:07 <Phoenix_the_II> atom bomb? 21:32:19 <KenjiE20> "21:32:10 oftc -- | 謙而: Erroneous Nickname" aww 21:32:22 <Thraxian|Work> moar powur 21:32:59 *** AdTheRat has quit IRC 21:33:02 <KenjiE20> extra_dynamite is the remove town owned thing iirc 21:33:30 *** AdTheRat has joined #openttdcoop 21:33:36 *** De_Ghosty has joined #openttdcoop 21:34:29 <Mark> KenjiE20: it also allows you to remove town-owned road junctions and middle-sections instead of just dead ends 21:34:48 <Mark> although you should try to work from dead ends inwards as it damages the rating less 21:35:01 <KenjiE20> that's what I was referring to with "town onwed thing" 21:35:34 <Phoenix_the_II> Mark ah :D 21:35:35 <Phoenix_the_II> nice to know 21:35:35 <Mark> oh, i thought you meant allowing to remove bridges and such, as it also does that 21:35:56 <PublicServer> *** puny has left the game (leaving) 21:35:58 <Phoenix_the_II> satalite stuff? 21:36:08 <PublicServer> <Mark> not town owned 21:36:23 <Phoenix_the_II> righty 21:36:30 <Phoenix_the_II> made a CL loopy near net plan 21:38:09 <puny> !password 21:38:09 <PublicServer> puny: salons 21:38:44 <PublicServer> *** puny joined the game 21:40:18 <PublicServer> <Mark> outer loop done 21:42:03 <Ammler> someone already compiled openttd nightly on suse? 21:42:20 <PublicServer> <Mark> this nightly? 21:42:27 <Ammler> current yes 21:42:27 <PeterT> !revision 21:42:28 <PublicServer> PeterT: Game version is r18867 21:42:31 <PublicServer> <Mark> nope 21:47:10 <PublicServer> <Mark> still hoping for the ultimate satisfaction, to lay the 800 tiles in one stretch 21:47:44 <PublicServer> <Mark> 400 is about the max so far :/ 21:48:10 <Thraxian|Work> @tunnels 21:48:10 <Webster> Thraxian|Work: (tunnels <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1. 21:48:22 <Thraxian|Work> @tunnels 3 21:48:23 <Webster> Thraxian|Work: For Trainlength of 3: < 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4. 21:48:34 <PublicServer> <Mark> AAAAAAAH 21:48:53 <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> bribes eh? 21:48:57 <PublicServer> <Mark> someone hacked ottd to make my IP never succeed a bribe 21:49:04 <Thraxian|Work> haha 21:49:22 <Thraxian|Work> is that what the anti-Mark bribe fix in the changelog refers to? 21:49:35 <PublicServer> <Mark> hehe 21:50:02 <PublicServer> <Mark> that would be a good one 21:50:39 <Thraxian|Work> is @tunnels the correct formula? 21:50:50 <PublicServer> <Mark> i think they both are now 21:51:02 <Thraxian|Work> what if I want to make a tunnel of length 9? 21:51:07 <Thraxian|Work> is it 2 or 3 tunnels? 21:51:13 <Mark> @tunnels 3 9 21:51:13 <Webster> Mark: For Trainlength of 3: 35 - 39 needs 8, 40 - 44 needs 9, 45 - 49 needs 10. 21:51:17 <Mark> oh 21:51:20 <Mark> !tunnels 3 9 21:51:20 <PublicServer> Mark: You need 2 tunnels/bridges for trainlength 3 and gap 9. 21:51:31 <Thraxian|Work> the other formula says to use 3 21:51:34 *** Zulan has joined #openttdcoop 21:51:41 <Thraxian|Work> @tunnels 3 21:51:41 <Webster> Thraxian|Work: For Trainlength of 3: < 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4. 21:51:51 <Thraxian|Work> 2 is not enough, because 9 is not <9 21:52:00 <Mark> yeah, it says 10-14 needs 3 though 21:52:06 <V453000> TL 3 is 3 tunnels for 9 length for sure 21:52:12 <PublicServer> *** puny has left the game (leaving) 21:52:12 <Thraxian|Work> @tunnel 21:52:12 <Webster> Thraxian|Work: (tunnel <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1. 21:52:19 <Mark> V453000: not too sure about that 21:52:19 <Thraxian|Work> @gap 21:52:19 <Webster> Thraxian|Work: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1. 21:52:22 <Thraxian|Work> @gap 3 21:52:22 <Webster> Thraxian|Work: For Trainlength of 3: < 9 needs 2, 10 - 14 needs 3, 15 - 19 needs 4. 21:52:40 <Mark> it's (3+2)*2 - (3-2) 21:53:04 <Mark> that makes 9 the max 21:54:35 <PublicServer> <Mark> i'll leave the rest of the ML for you 21:54:55 <PublicServer> <Mark> time to reserve seats for my 2nd flight segment :) 21:54:56 <V453000> Mark: I am quite sure 21:54:56 <Thraxian|Work> near the plan, are those bridges gap 9 or 10? 21:55:00 <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined spectators 21:55:06 <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined company #1 21:55:14 <PublicServer> <Mark> that's 9 21:55:17 <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined spectators 21:55:43 <Thraxian|Work> then 2 is definitely not enough for TL9 21:56:02 <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined company #1 21:57:05 <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah i guess that should be counted as 11 because a train on a signal tile also blocks it 21:57:08 <PublicServer> *** Mark has joined spectators 21:57:51 *** Intexon has quit IRC 21:58:37 <Thraxian|Work> even a length 7 bridge appears to be too long for 2 tracks 21:58:42 <Thraxian|Work> unless I'm miscounting 21:59:17 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (connection lost) 22:00:19 <V453000> also depends if you use PBS or not 22:00:23 <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> what's happening near the CL demo? 22:00:27 <V453000> it could shorten it by one tile 22:00:37 <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> the standard rail creation 22:00:51 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> can you check by the plan? 22:00:58 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> the crossed tiles are supposed to be TL3 trains 22:01:03 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> are they too close together? 22:02:00 <V453000> is that for mey? 22:02:18 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> for anyone that knows anything about doubling bridges/tunnels 22:02:29 <V453000> I cant join ingame ;) 22:02:29 <PublicServer> <VictorOfSweden> syncing trains 22:02:40 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> it's never been very clear to me how to count the gap (from bridge ends or signals), and how trains fit... 22:02:46 <V453000> what is going on with bridges? some new ideas ? 22:02:59 <V453000> oh so 22:03:01 <V453000> yeah 22:03:07 <V453000> could try that though 22:03:16 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> I'm curious what the maximum bridge/tunnel length is for 2 bridges on a TL3 22:03:35 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> the formula says 8-9 can be done with 2 bridges 22:03:39 <V453000> maybe also an issue would be how exactly is the flow compressed/packed 22:03:45 <V453000> 9 cant 22:03:45 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> is that counting 0, 1, or both tiles with signals on them? 22:03:47 <V453000> I am sure 22:03:55 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> assume maximum compression, always 22:04:11 <Mark> min. gap is 3 22:04:39 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> min gap between trains is 3? 22:04:48 <Mark> yes 22:05:01 <V453000> meant with the shortest bridge probably 22:05:44 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> and how do you count the gap? do you include 0, 1, or both signalled tiles? 22:06:20 <V453000> thats a bold question 22:06:34 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> assuming that the ML is 2-gapped, that means you count all the unsignalled tiles and 1 of the signalled tiles 22:06:43 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> is that counting correct? 22:07:20 <planetmaker> iirc yes 22:07:27 <PublicServer> <Mark> the example you have now shows why you shouldn't use pre-signalling 22:07:30 <V453000> lets test 22:07:35 <planetmaker> that's how you count signal distance. the gap is one less 22:08:08 <PublicServer> <Thraxian> so I've effectively created a 10 gap, then. counting the space between pre-signal and last signal +1 22:09:05 <planetmaker> might be :-) (I'm not ingame) 22:11:44 *** roysvork has quit IRC 22:11:46 <PublicServer> *** Roysvork has left the game (leaving) 22:15:30 *** Seppel has joined #openttdcoop 22:16:12 <PublicServer> *** VictorOfSweden has left the game (leaving) 22:16:19 *** lomba has quit IRC 22:17:11 <V453000> SHIT! My shifter broke because there were coming livestock-full trains which accelerate much faster as livestock has almost no weight 22:17:13 <V453000> goddamn it 22:19:41 <Mark> lightweight cows 22:20:09 <V453000> yes 22:20:12 <V453000> this sucks 22:21:22 <V453000> that actually makes it quite hard to unify the acceleration trail for all trains on the net 22:21:31 <V453000> single cargo SRNW ftw. 22:22:38 <Mark> yeah, i noticed that with my first working compressor 22:23:38 <V453000> :) 22:23:38 *** uliko has quit IRC 22:23:54 <V453000> I did not realize with my shifters actually :| 22:24:09 <V453000> damn :D I have been building the shifters for two days 22:24:18 <V453000> I can start all over 22:25:55 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC 22:25:56 <PublicServer> *** Phoenix_the_II has left the game (connection lost) 22:25:56 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 22:26:36 <V453000> oh my god 22:26:53 <V453000> forgot also the wagons have different speed 22:27:10 <V453000> (weight) 22:27:30 *** uliko has joined #openttdcoop 22:27:34 <Razaekel> you got screwed 22:28:04 <V453000> as if I did not know it :D 22:28:17 <V453000> well ... not everything is lost yet 22:28:43 <Razaekel> !dl win64 22:28:43 <PublicServer> Razaekel: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r18867/openttd-trunk-r18867-windows-win64.zip 22:28:51 <V453000> the concept just got trimmed to be useful in really just some situations 22:29:27 <Thraxian|Work> actually, according to http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_Designs, the gap includes both signals - interesting.... 22:32:27 <Webster> Latest update from devzone: OpenGFX 32bpp - First Release! <http://dev.openttdcoop.org/news/24> 22:32:54 *** dr_gonzo has quit IRC 22:33:00 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has joined spectators 22:35:41 <Osai> howdy 22:35:41 <Osai> !svn 22:35:41 <PublicServer> Osai: svn update -r18867 && make (wafted) 22:35:41 <PublicServer> Osai: svn checkout -r18867 svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk openttdcoop && cd openttdcoop && ./configure && make 22:36:13 <PeterT> Osai: You really build from SVN? 22:36:17 <PeterT> we've had this conversation before 22:36:21 <Osai> you always ask me 22:36:24 <Osai> and I said, yes 22:36:30 <Osai> and I have another good reason 22:36:35 <Osai> I am using os x 10.6 22:37:02 <Osai> dunno if there are binaries available 22:37:04 *** persil has joined #openttdcoop 22:37:09 <Osai> !playercount 22:37:09 <PublicServer> Osai: Number of players: 3 22:37:10 <PeterT> Oh 22:37:19 <PeterT> !tell Osai !dl osx 22:37:19 <PublicServer> Osai: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r18867/openttd-trunk-r18867-macosx-universal.zip 22:37:23 <PeterT> :-P 22:38:35 <Osai> try to click that..... 22:38:54 <planetmaker> Osai: there are no OSX binaries anymore 22:38:56 <PeterT> ah 22:38:58 <planetmaker> nor will there 22:39:05 <planetmaker> until there's a new OSX dev 22:39:09 <Osai> yep 22:39:15 <Osai> omg 22:39:25 <Osai> I need that stupid liblzo2 22:39:32 <planetmaker> yes. 22:39:37 <planetmaker> sudo port install lzo2 22:39:45 <PeterT> there have been some people offering to do it in the mac thread 22:39:49 <Osai> good to know 22:39:57 <planetmaker> and then do the required symlinking of the dirs, if it isn't found 22:39:59 <Osai> I searched for liblzo2 all the time 22:40:05 <planetmaker> yes, me, too :-P 22:40:08 <Osai> now I did --without-liblzo2 22:40:14 <Osai> ./configure --without-liblzo2 22:40:19 <Osai> works too 22:40:25 <planetmaker> yes... 22:40:47 <planetmaker> but there are then some saves which you cannot open 22:40:49 <Osai> anyway... installing lzo2 22:40:50 <Thraxian|Work> how do you get Webster to tell you the formula for gap? 22:40:56 <planetmaker> @gap 22:40:56 <Webster> planetmaker: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1. 22:41:08 <planetmaker> @help gap 22:41:08 <Webster> planetmaker: (gap <trainlength> [<split>]) -- Returns minimum and maximum signal gap sizes for 2,3 and 4 linesplits with <trainlength>. If <spilt> is given it will return the the gap sizes for <split> (+/-) 1. 22:41:11 <planetmaker> hm 22:41:12 <PeterT> !playercount 22:41:12 <PublicServer> PeterT: Number of players: 3 22:41:14 <Thraxian|Work> I think it uses alias 22:41:19 <planetmaker> yes 22:41:20 <Thraxian|Work> but I don't remember the syntax 22:41:26 <Osai> @wiki KenjiE20/Webster 22:41:27 <planetmaker> @help alias gap 22:41:29 <Webster> Search results for "KenjiE20/Webster" - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Special:Search?go=Go&search=KenjiE20/Webster 22:41:40 <Chris_Booth> !gap tl split 22:41:40 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: !gap <trainlength> <gap>: Returns amount of tunnels/bridges needed. Formula: (<gap>+<trainlength>-2)/(<trainlength>+2) 22:41:44 <Thraxian|Work> Osai: I'm looking at that article, but not seeing anything 22:41:57 <Razaekel> !password 22:41:57 <PublicServer> Razaekel: wafted 22:42:03 <Chris_Booth> !gap 3 10 22:42:03 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: You need 3 tunnels/bridges for trainlength 3 and gap 10. 22:42:17 <PublicServer> *** Razaekel joined the game 22:42:35 <Chris_Booth> @help pile 22:42:41 <Chris_Booth> @pile 22:43:01 <KenjiE20> @pilesave 22:43:05 <Chris_Booth> !password 22:43:05 <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: wafted 22:43:36 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game 22:44:20 <Thraxian|Work> CB: actually, according to http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_Designs, the gap includes both signalled tiles - is that correct? 22:44:49 <Thraxian|Work> I'm working on a wiki article for signal gaps, so I can refer to it the next time I get confused (tomorrow!) 22:44:56 <KenjiE20> @pilesave 22:44:56 <Webster> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/MemberZone:Archive#gameid_04 22:45:00 <KenjiE20> there 22:45:01 <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work: doesn't make sense to me. 22:45:02 <Chris_Booth> gap is from the last use signal 22:45:08 <Chris_Booth> to first used signal 22:45:14 <Thraxian|Work> including the two signalled tiles? 22:45:14 <planetmaker> a gap is a gap _between_ something 22:45:32 <planetmaker> no gap means adjacent signals, gap 1 = signal distance two 22:45:33 <Chris_Booth> so the length that a train travels without passing a signal 22:45:34 <PublicServer> <Razaekel> there's way too many damn hills on this map 22:45:36 <PublicServer> <Razaekel> >.< 22:45:42 <Thraxian|Work> that's my main question, and the source of all my confusion. when you count the gap, do you count 0, 1, or both of the signalled tiles? 22:45:46 <planetmaker> all other definitions are at least counter-intuitive 22:45:59 <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work: I would count no signal 22:46:03 <planetmaker> for a _gap_ 22:46:12 <planetmaker> The signal _distance_ includes ONE signal 22:46:19 <Chris_Booth> Thraxian|Work: s t t t s 22:46:25 <PublicServer> *** Razaekel has left the game (leaving) 22:46:25 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 22:46:26 <Chris_Booth> where s is a signal 22:46:32 <planetmaker> gap 3, signal distance 4 22:46:33 <Chris_Booth> and t is a none signal tile 22:46:47 <Chris_Booth> thanks planetmaker 22:46:55 <planetmaker> thanks you :-) 22:47:09 <Thraxian|Work> I'm looking at the article I just linked, and it says that SD means one signal every N tiles (we use SD=2), and that a SD of two gives a gap of 3 22:47:23 <planetmaker> uh? 22:47:25 <Thraxian|Work> meaning it is counting both signalled tiles 22:47:32 <planetmaker> sounds wrong to me 22:47:37 <Thraxian|Work> http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_Designs <- without the comma (sorry) 22:47:45 <KenjiE20> SD = Gap+1 22:47:46 <Chris_Booth> no Thraxian|Work gives a traveling gap of 3 22:47:56 <Thraxian|Work> it does have a signficant impact on the formulas and how to count a gap properly 22:48:04 <Osai> weird, I can't find that stupid lzo2 22:48:20 <Chris_Booth> we use a gap of 1 22:48:20 <Thraxian|Work> are they referring to gap as a "train gap" and not a "signal gap"? 22:48:31 <Chris_Booth> which has a travel distance of 2 tiles 22:48:36 <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work: the article says that _if you remove a signal_ you have a minimum gap of 3 22:48:46 <Thraxian|Work> An SD of two gives a minimum gap of 3, and is the optimal practical solution. 22:48:52 <Thraxian|Work> ^ directly from the wiki article 22:49:00 <KenjiE20> Thraxian|Work: @tunnels and !tunnels are not sacrosanct anyway, merely guidees 22:49:08 <Chris_Booth> we use a SD of 1 thoguh 22:49:16 <Thraxian|Work> is that the gap between trains they are referring to? 22:49:19 <PublicServer> *** persil joined the game 22:49:51 <planetmaker> Thraxian|Work: the context reads to me, though, that the author only speaks of a gap, if a signal is missing :-) 22:49:55 <Thraxian|Work> nvm: Figure1 indicates they are talking about a train gap 22:50:12 <Thraxian|Work> so if the traingap is signalgap +2, then we do ignore signalled tiles. 22:50:20 <planetmaker> ah, good point 22:50:25 <Thraxian|Work> so we use a signal gap of 1 (meaning only 1 unsignalled tile between two signalled ones) 22:50:33 <planetmaker> yup 22:50:45 <planetmaker> so we should always make the distinction between signal gap and train gap 22:50:47 <Chris_Booth> thats what the game engine say for signal gap 22:50:48 <KenjiE20> @setpsg 173 22:50:48 *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #173 (r18867) | STAGE: PileTransport 2 | www.openttdcoop.org | New players, use @quickstart & !help | Screenshots: http://img.openttdcoop.org | Coopetition ladder: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/ladder" 22:51:07 <planetmaker> and now good night :-) 22:51:12 <Razaekel> i always considered it to be 2 22:51:17 <Razaekel> since that's what the game says :-/ 22:51:28 <Mark> looking at the context i also think we use 2 22:51:39 <Razaekel> ahh, the word of god 22:51:43 <Razaekel> discussion over! 22:51:52 *** jondisti has joined #openttdcoop 22:52:46 <Chris_Booth> any how i am off to bed now 22:52:49 <KenjiE20> @post PSG173 (PileTrans 2) now underway see http://tweeturl.us/20 for the original 22:52:50 <Webster> KenjiE20: Posted. 22:53:15 <Osai> !password 22:53:16 <PublicServer> Osai: buzzes 22:53:19 <PublicServer> *** tkjacobsen has left the game (leaving) 22:53:27 <PublicServer> *** 0sai joined the game 22:55:44 <PublicServer> *** jondisti joined the game 22:57:07 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving) 22:57:46 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttdcoop 22:57:46 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Phoenix_the_II 22:58:35 *** ODM has quit IRC 22:59:05 <Osai> renamed the company now 22:59:29 <PublicServer> *** persil has left the game (leaving) 22:59:47 <PublicServer> *** 0sai has left the game (leaving) 22:59:47 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players) 22:59:56 <Osai> looks good, but its time for my bed now 23:00:19 <Thraxian|Work> hehe - should be Pile Jr 23:01:21 <Mark> Pile 2010? 23:01:59 <Thraxian|Work> wiki article created: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Signal_gap 23:03:41 <Osai> nice 23:03:53 <Osai> we could use an interwiki link 23:04:02 <Osai> I'll do that tomorrow 23:04:20 <Thraxian|Work> I'm still not sold on the formula. It just doesn't seem to fit for gap 9, TL3. 23:04:27 <Thraxian|Work> what do you mean an interwiki link/ 23:04:33 <Thraxian|Work> I have one on Signal Density 23:05:13 <V453000> hi Osai :) 23:06:21 <Osai> Thraxian|Work: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Help:Interwiki_linking 23:06:44 <Thraxian|Work> oh, nice 23:06:52 <Osai> but I don't know the prefix right now 23:06:53 <Osai> :/ 23:08:03 <Osai> Thraxian|Work: imho the signal gap is a bit different 23:08:13 <Thraxian|Work> the prefix is whatever you want it to be 23:08:22 <Osai> but thats my personal experience with testing synchronized joiners 23:08:34 <Thraxian|Work> so you could use openttd as the prefix 23:08:37 <Osai> TL + ( signal gap *2 ) 23:08:42 <Thraxian|Work> that would make openttd:Railway_Designs link to http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_Designs 23:09:35 <Osai> yes 23:09:37 <Thraxian|Work> Osai: what does that formula equate to? 23:09:44 <Osai> wait 23:09:48 <Osai> its something different 23:10:18 <V453000> Osai: I found one little bad thingy on the hybrid sml ... if I am using it for normal game with SML, all cargo types, same trains, same TL, their Weight becomes a huge issue - each wagon type weighs different and also the cargos count somehow else on weight ... well the result is that the Hybrids have to be used with the same accelerating distance ... 23:10:35 <V453000> it still works and pretty well but the usability is quite reduced 23:10:51 <Osai> but thats a problem of pre-accelerated joins, isn't it? 23:10:57 <V453000> yes 23:11:03 <KenjiE20> Thraxian|Work: tweaked a couple things on there 23:11:06 <V453000> but these are included in the hybrid 23:11:09 *** Phoenix_the_II has quit IRC 23:11:35 <Thraxian|Work> KenjiE20: in the link you sent me? 23:11:44 <KenjiE20> in the link you posted 23:12:06 <Osai> V453000: I don't see a solution for this issue right now :/ 23:12:15 <V453000> it is quite simple 23:12:34 *** persil has quit IRC 23:12:39 <Thraxian|Work> nice, thanks KenjiE20 23:13:00 <Thraxian|Work> I still want to examine that formula more closely. I think once screenshots are added, it will help 23:13:01 <V453000> Osai: Simply there is none. The concept can be used only with the same weights OR for example with one cargo SRNW 23:13:19 <Thraxian|Work> V453000: or infinite hp :) 23:13:26 <V453000> :D 23:13:27 <V453000> yeah 23:13:36 <Thraxian|Work> instacelleration 23:13:38 <V453000> but then we would not need accelerated priorities 23:13:45 <Osai> it also depends on the maxspeed 23:13:51 <Thraxian|Work> or however you spell it...instacceleration 23:14:02 <V453000> I understand :) 23:14:24 <PublicServer> *** Thraxian has left the game (leaving) 23:14:27 <KenjiE20> Thraxian|Work: added a meta template for ya :P 23:14:59 <V453000> the maxspeed? you mean that the accel trail length is related to the maxspeed, (hp and weight) 23:15:05 <V453000> ? 23:15:13 <Osai> no 23:15:23 <Osai> just if you use different engines 23:15:33 <V453000> oh 23:15:43 <V453000> well it is simple to use the same engines 23:15:52 <V453000> that is no issue 23:15:56 <Thraxian|Work> I still think a 7-gap is maximum for TL3 with 2 lines 23:16:41 <Thraxian|Work> I can add some captions for the screenshots, if you think that will expedite things. I'm horrible at making example screenshots 23:17:08 <KenjiE20> I don't, I doubt trains will be able to travel close enough for 7 to be useful 23:17:21 <KenjiE20> Thrax; might help 23:17:31 <Osai> V453000: not if your goal is realism D: 23:17:40 <Thraxian|Work> with the way we've been exploring compression and packers, it won't be long :) 23:17:58 <KenjiE20> there's only so close trains can follow 23:17:58 <PublicServer> *** jondisti has left the game (leaving) 23:17:59 <V453000> Osai: we always use the same engines, dont we 23:18:10 <KenjiE20> else they end up pausing at split second reds 23:18:13 <Thraxian|Work> KenjiE20: yup. signal density +1 23:18:38 <V453000> Osai: the only issue could be if someone played lets say from 1920 ... then the trains would change all the time ... but making the shifters took me about 40 years 23:18:48 <Thraxian|Work> and I'd rather err on the side of caution than cause an accordian effect on the ML 23:19:03 <KenjiE20> Thraxian|Work: if they travelled that close, the realistc accel, would cause them to briefly slow 23:19:05 *** jondisti has quit IRC 23:19:14 <Osai> V453000: yes, we do! :P 23:19:32 <V453000> Osai: only when PAX and cargo is mixed -.- 23:19:38 <V453000> which I dislike :D 23:19:56 <Osai> :P 23:20:48 <V453000> I fear our new shifters are quite unusable after all :D just for really specific games 23:21:19 <KenjiE20> you mean SML ISN'T specific?! 23:21:21 <KenjiE20> :P 23:21:26 <V453000> true 23:21:31 <Osai> but the Fail-Save Joiner is awesome 23:21:34 <V453000> though I use it quite frequently 23:21:38 <Osai> because its super easy 23:22:00 <V453000> yes it is awesome ... but it has a gap error ;) 23:22:17 <Osai> gap error? 23:22:28 <KenjiE20> oh don't start this again 23:22:29 <V453000> as I showed you in the screenshot 23:22:30 <KenjiE20> :) 23:22:35 <V453000> :D 23:22:37 <Osai> well... for SML 23:23:07 <V453000> maybe I did not imagine used for joining actually :) 23:23:16 <Osai> :P 23:23:26 <Osai> I already have some other setups 23:23:29 *** Phoenix_the_II has joined #openttdcoop 23:23:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Phoenix_the_II 23:23:32 <V453000> :) 23:23:35 <Osai> double-fail-save-join 23:23:37 <Osai> that roxx 23:23:43 <V453000> hehe 23:24:06 <Osai> it is like: | V | 23:24:16 <KenjiE20> @fish 23:24:16 <Webster> I landed a Phoenix_the_II that was this big |<---------->| 23:24:17 <Osai> while sml is like |\| 23:24:19 <V453000> hmph? :D 23:24:22 <KenjiE20> hehe 23:24:29 <V453000> oh 23:24:42 <Osai> maybe we really need another construction for sml 23:24:57 <V453000> that actually could be just SML to the center 23:25:04 <V453000> another ...we will see 23:25:17 <Osai> well... normal networks are not SML 23:25:34 <Osai> I am looking forward to this game 23:25:36 <V453000> of course because they are normal :D :P 23:26:00 <Osai> well... I am off for today 23:26:02 <Osai> good night 23:26:05 <V453000> cya 23:26:11 <V453000> more news tomorrow :P 23:27:11 <Phoenix_the_II> @azzword 23:27:14 <Phoenix_the_II> !password 23:27:14 <PublicServer> Phoenix_the_II: relish 23:27:19 <KenjiE20> azz 23:27:27 <PublicServer> *** Phoenix_the_II joined the game 23:28:44 <Phoenix_the_II> hmm 23:28:47 <Phoenix_the_II> pretty much dead 23:29:43 <PublicServer> *** Phoenix_the_II has left the game (leaving) 23:29:48 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (leaving) 23:38:36 <PeterT> Mark? 23:38:39 <PeterT> @seen mark 23:38:39 <Webster> PeterT: mark was last seen in #openttdcoop 37 minutes and 17 seconds ago: <Mark> Pile 2010? 23:39:11 <PeterT> Mark: your openttd intro looks great, but it's a bit empty with a large screen (http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/intro/mark0291/01-opengfx-2560x1600.png) 23:40:03 <V453000> yeah that is quite nice ... I would prefer a LOT less water and non.openGFX though :) 23:40:14 *** Polygon has quit IRC 23:42:09 <PeterT> V453000: you mean like this? http://devs.openttd.org/~rubidium/intro/mark0291/01-original-0800x0600.png 23:42:34 <V453000> that is MUCH nicer :) 23:46:25 <PeterT> yea 23:49:40 <V453000> I also had one somewhere ... but it was just a BRUTAL MESS with TL1 trains running all around ... was one of my SLHs 23:50:27 <PeterT> ill be voting for mark's intro unless a better one comes along 23:50:47 <V453000> wait this is just recent thingy? 23:50:58 <V453000> I thought I saw it long time ago 23:53:43 *** mixrin has quit IRC 23:54:02 *** Thraxian|Work has quit IRC 23:55:59 *** mixrin has joined #openttdcoop